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General Thread

176

Hopefully ya’ll had a great Christmas.

General thread until something interesting pops up. I hope later this week, or by next week, to put up my ratings for the early signees. Other than that, I don’t have much that’s interesting me right now. You guys are free to discuss anything you wish.

176 COMMENTS

    • SJ has a lot going on in his life as far as non sport related interests as well as philanthropic endeavors. Don’t imagine he has the time to start coaching college ball.

      I think Simonton is a high school coach in So Cal. Might also help with some recruiting placement services? If you’re trying to add more former players to the band he seems more likely.

      Anyone think Quon up back here in the fold in some capacity now that Smiley is back? I think he’s a GA at Nebraska currently. Seems like he could eventually be a great coach/recruiter.

  1. Due to the Barnes/Riley stench, I cleaned out my closet today. There is a pile of OSU gear:6 sweatshirts, 2 jackets, 2 t-shirts, 3 osu caps all going to Goodwill. Nothing will be replaced until both Barnes and Riley are gone. This is my Quixotic stand against the dragons of OSU football.

  2. Heard a funny story about Florida State’s bowl game. Apparently, their 6 wins this year included 1 win against FCS level Delaware State. Normally, teams can count 1 FCS win in their bowl total. But, there is a rule that says the FCS team must also use up 90% of their total scholarships in a rolling 2 year period for that win to count.
    None of Florida State, the NCAA or the bowl representatives figured this out, but some reddit user pointed out to everybody that Florida State is in fact not bowl eligible.

    Of course, since the wheels were already rolling, FSU still plays in a bowl game this year.

    • One has to wonder why there isn’t just a database that these teams (Delaware St) report this kind of info. It would take an intern a couple hours at the beginning of the season to input the data and have it on hand for easy access.

    • Wasn’t Delaware St. the team not originally on their schedule because they lost a game due to the hurricanes or was that Louisiana-Monroe? I know they desperately wanted to keep their bowl streak alive so they were trying to find a make up game. I remember years ago when i lived in Utah, Weber St.was willing to add a late season 12th game so that Utah could go 6-6 to make some meaningless Mountain West bowl game, but AD Rice wanted to get rid of Ron McBride so he said no to it. McBride got canned after that 5-6 season.

      • ULM was the cancelled game and Delaware State was the late make-up game, which was added to keep the bowl streak alive. In reality, the streak has ended though, since the DS game should not count towards bowl eligibility.
        Funny to hear that Utah screwed McBride out of a meaningless win so they could can him. Lots of politics

  3. Is Ken Goe among the paid professionals who faithfully read AB?

    After discussing the forced departure of McM and Kempt, he writes today:

    “it makes you wonder how much better Andersen’s teams could have been had he and his staff been able and willing to develop the players they inherited.”

    this follows yesterdays lead paragraph:

    “Perhaps nothing better encapsulates the hash Gary Andersen made of his tenure as Oregon State’s football coach than the way the Beavers mishandled quarterback Marcus McMaryion.”

    • Yes, Ken… How good could we have been if we could have played six QBs at a time?

      Deep thinker, that one.

      And I have to giggle at what anyone here or in Goe’s head is thinking that MM wouldn’t have been mishandled as the starter had he made the decision all by himself to stay instead of transfer… and not skip practice when things didn’t go his way. It’s not like he differentiated himself from all other QBs on our rosters over the last three years… except in some weird legend where numbers and contexts don’t count.

  4. Is Mark Banker the new Hawaii DC?
    Saw rumors they’re shuffling their staff around to accomodate their unnamed DC’s needs.
    I think I also read somehwere awhile back that Cav was going to be their OL coach

      • We should keep a log of which are the #TPBs for other teams’ fanbases.
        Currently, I think we are TPBs according to UW, Nebraska and every team Guinta and Yray have worked for. (Wisconsin, Fresno St?)

        I had someone close to the team tell me that all of the commits we got between when GA was fired and Smith was hired were because Guinta and Yray took it upon themselves to go offer guys, despite no coaches on the staff having evaluated the players. This is why we have a class full of players who didn’t have a competing D1 offer. They also offered a local kid Cody Anderson from Springfield, OR and put him on scholarship at DE before the season ended(despite him being a 6’3″ 200lb Safety in highschool at Thurston?) Those guys are bad news and hopefully Smith sees it soon.

        • It’s hard to fault anyone for taking it upon themselves to do what others should have been doing with others’ job specs and others getting their paychecks signed.

          A couple of these kids look like three year contributors or better. Some of the developmental players are ones we should be taking anyway. Half of recruiting your own state is the politics involved. It helps a lot to have local kids developing and contributing as upperclassmen on a consistent, rolling basis.

          If we’re to believe the conspiracy that 9 was the choice all along, maybe he was in contact with them and telling them who to offer. Petersen recruits Oregon better than anyone. It’s not hard to believe 9 has those same contacts and relishes the challenge of molding football players out of raw local talent that has been underserved by both FBS teams in the state.

          Regardless, I don’t know why you think someone doing their own job plus others’ jobs is a strike against him or her. It’s not like there isn’t a fail-safe to prevent them from doing anything others might not want them to do.

          • Multiple in state high school coaches have publicly criticized them as well as mutiple peers from their former staff, and we have several players that no other D1 coaches made an offer to, but apparently these guys have the golden eye and could see that diamond in the rough. The critics could all be biased in their assessment and since these guys have JackBeav’s endoresement, I guess they can’t be all bad.

          • You’re faulting someone who is taking initiative when their superiors don’t. I am biased toward that kind of person in business.

            Sorry?

            Talking about them specifically, who cares? If they are that bad, then 9 should deal with it. It’s not like they have OSU in a headlock, now or in the past. There are so many variables that would make them good or bad at their jobs. You’re choosing to pick on the one (of your list) that is actually a positive… unless you’re hinting that something actually corrupt or criminal occurred.

          • Stop and think of why they were the ones doing it, not the coaches. Either the coaches didn’t care, they read the writing on the wall and did the right thing or they were told not to do so.

            If Yray and Guinta were offering players at the jobs they are paid to do, then they’re the last people I would blame for that situation. The buck just doesn’t stop with them.

            If they’re bad at their jobs, replace them. If they’re manipulative, they’ll see that their gravy trains left, and they’ll go to greener pastures.

            9 didn’t have to take anyone in December. That was his choice.

          • And you’re taking one item from that list, and twisting it into a positive, even though they aren’t qualified for evaluating nor offering scholarships to players, considering they have zero coaching experience.
            Go evaluate Cody Anderson’s film, and tell me he makes sense as a scholarship DE for this team. I think that could qualify as a corrupt decision, but feel free to tell me otherwise.

            And yes, I agree, if they are that bad, then Smith should deal with it. That’s why I said “Those guys are bad news and hopefully Smith sees it soon.” in my original post…..

          • … even though they aren’t qualified for evaluating nor offering scholarships to players, considering they have zero coaching experience.

            Okay?

            And you’re blaming them for this why? You’re acting as if they don’t have bosses… multiple bosses that you should be blaming.

            Again, 9 didn’t have to sign anyone in December. It’s his team. He gets to do what he wants, not what two dudes he doesn’t know want. I didn’t see them in pics of in-home visits with these kids.

            I don’t understand why this is twisted thought.

          • Smith wasn’t even around for the Anderson offer/commitment. Not his choice.
            For the other guys from that period, never saw Smith in any in home visits for these guys either.
            What’s he supposed to do, pull offers as his first order of business as head coach at OSU?
            Thought he was supposed to be building relationships with HS coaches, not burning those bridges.
            And those multiple bosses you speak of, Smith has no authority over them currently. Again, what else could he do?

          • What’s he supposed to do?

            He’s supposed to act like he owns the joint, because he does. Nobody gets to be on the team without his express okay. Nobody else gets paid $2m to be the head football coach. Nobody else gets the final say on who does or does not get to be on the team.

            Everyone should be able to respect that. If not, then 9 is majorly flawed, and it doesn’t even matter. He didn’t sign up to be den leader here.

          • What burning? He just doesn’t have to sign anyone in December. If they’re committed to OSU, they should understand what’s best once a new head coach comes in… and you were offered by someone other than anyone who was authorized to offer.

            You’re saying he should have hurried to be mediocre… because Yray and Guinta told him to do it.

            I’m saying he had the choice to do what he wanted to do with his team because he is the boss, not like one.

          • My two cents on this one:

            1) Wants to build and maintain current relationships with local and pipeline HS coaches.

            2) Not signing any player in December would set the team back another 2-3 years.
            a) Signing early goes against the ’17 class, but counts towards the ’18 class.
            b) The players that were signed wanted to be a part of OSU, not just the coaching staff.
            i) This is what Smith is trying to instill in the program and recruiting. Commit to the
            University, not the coaches.
            c) The staff would be hurting to fill a class of 20-23 if they didn’t allow early signing to happen.

            3) When GA came on as a coach, he didn’t honor current commits, did he? I recall he didn’t and
            tried to go find recruits and failed miserably his first year or two. I would say this class has
            players who qualify today, will get into the program early, and can start competing right away. I’d
            say Smith looked at the kids he was signing and thought, hey, 9 3* athletes is better than 9
            unknown * athletes.

            Recruiting is one of those things where if you know how to build relationships, evaluate, and can coach, you are a rare breed. There are generally coaches who are good at evaluating players and coaching, but can’t build relationships on the recruiting trail. Then there are those who are good recruiters and relationship builders, but can’t coach. Then you have Riley who used to be able to evaluate and coach, but at a lower level of relationship building. He wasn’t able to get a relationship built with the big name programs, especially in Oregon because until recently, the talent has gone from about 3-8 D-1 Athletes to about 15-20. So the relationships that were built with Oregon coaches, was nearly non existent.

          • 1. Agreed, though I believe “pipeline” talent is overrated. OSU should have a roster with local, developed talent who contribute a lot as role players as upperclassmen. This is how you build. Riley never did this, speaking to your last. That speaks to his failure at player evaluation because of a lack of building relationships. Athletes who are underserved by poor facilities and/or visibility are still athletes. Put them on a P5 training regimen, and they will perform. But when you limit your perception of “my kind of person/player” to pipeline schools and how hard they pray, you leave a lot on the table. I would also argue that you cultivate an inability to handle contingencies because your tunnel vision has created a life of mediocre homogeneity incapable of relating to said contingencies.

            2. Baloney
            2a. I’ve not looked at the rules for this particular period. But typically only players who sign early then enroll in winter term are able to be counted toward the last class. And that’s only if the last class was short the limit. So (just a hypo) if we signed and enrolled 22 players in 2017, and the limit was 25, we could sign 10 2018 players early. But only three of them will be counted toward 2017, even if you have five or six enroll in winter term. The rest go toward 2018.
            2b. I appreciate this most of this group.
            2i. I would hope so. This takes work, not giving up because a kid has a preconceived notion of what OSU is.
            2c. That remains to be seen. As it is, they still have to find 14 or so. If their methods are proper, doors should open for them. Then “filling” classes will be less work. This is one of the reasons why coaches are paid so much money. They have an expectation to do this work, not complain about hurting.

            3. GA is a poor analogy for doing anything the wrong or right way at OSU. And if 9 is looking at the PSAs as nine 3* PSAs, then none of this matters.

            Riley is also a very poor analogy for building relationships within Oregon. He big-timed most everyone, and they responded accordingly. He treated Oregon as another satellite region with pipeline schools. Leach does the same at Wazzu. Petersen didn’t do this at Boise. He picked up what were thought to be lesser players and beat up on us with them.

            Think of recruiting locally in the same way Pat Casey does it. He didn’t start out getting his pick of players in the region. He had to build the relationships and take the players who were considered lesser. Then he molded them into a sustainable program with consistent local development. Then regional coaches with whom he already had great relationships start talking him up, and he gets that train rolling.

            It’s a chicken and egg thing. Fry and Alvarez, didn’t have but 2-3 locals per year for that magical star talent. Except that they did, and nobody was paying attention until they took those magical no stars and made them what they always were. They had it better because they could offer walk-ons to an unlimited bunch. But that method is scalable to today’s game. And the relationships are the key, not the perceived talent in the beginning of your journey.

            That’s why maybe someone should spend the time evaluating what’s on their plate. Remake the relationships with these kids and their coaches. Those bureaucrats who make neat tweets? They don’t speak for the new coach unless he tells these PSAs and their coaches that they do.

            Maybe he sees a good mix of players from diverse locations where he would like to make relationships, and having them signed gives him unfettered access. But I doubt he allowed anyone to sign because he was just scared into it by some vaguely tenuous situation over which he had no control. My expectation is for him to take control, not be afraid of his lack of it.

  5. Owned by a friend of mine from the dark days of OSU Football–Randy Holmes. #13 on all-time rushing list!

    Has a place in Bend (Kelly D’s)–makes a killer Reuben. Coach Tinkle is a fan of said sandwich.

  6. I see on the recruiting feed that we haven’t talked to KJ Carta-Samuels at all. Maybe Jonathan just doesn’t think that highly of him.

    Kinda surprised JS would go into the year with only Luton due to health issues alone.

    • Maybe smith sees something in the current backups that we don’t.

      Don’t think Moran or Willard have much upside. Blount seems like a career backup.

      But it is still a long ways to spring ball.

  7. Some reasons why Smith has not contacted Carta Samuels

    1. Uw restricted where he can transfer to and osu is on the list bc they are a future opponent.
    2. Osu does not offer a grad program for Carta Samuels that isn’t at uw.
    3. Not sure if this rule is still in place but the pac12 used to have a rule that intra conference transfers had to sit a year no matter what. So he’d have no eligibility if he transferred to osu. (This didn’t apply to tyner since he hadn’t played in two years).

      • As far as I know, that’s not possible.
        Scenario #2 doesn’t make sense either. There are grad programs not offered by UW, but maybe not something that interests KJCS.
        Darren Carrington didnt sit out after transferring to Utah, so I dont think #3 makes sense either.

        Bill, where did you read this? Or are these just a list of possible reasons?

    • Some conferences do restrict where a transfer can go, the pac12 isn’t one of them. But he is a grad transfer and can go anywhere he wants. As long as they don’t have the same program at uw.

  8. I am a new angrybeaver follower and I really don’t want to have to go back over hundreds (if not thousands) of prior comments. I have a few questions that I’d like to know everyone’s thoughts on.

    Can ANYONE confirm any of the GA exit rumors? Not trying to beat the dead horse but I have heard so many crazy ones it would be nice to know if any of them have gained traction or shown any signs of proof? Was he really an abusive alcoholic who knocked up a cheerleader? Was he really found passed out next to an empty Benny the Beaver costume, an empty bottle of Jack, and a half used box of Trojans? Or, did he really just have a mental breakdown and walked away from A LOT of money for the benefit of the University?

    Also, has anyone heard anything on Tyner yet? Is he going for another year of eligibility?

    And finally…I kind of wondered if bringing back Mike Riley was a move to hopefully keep as many of the guys he recruited on the roster? Seems like there were some threats about transfers on social media by a couple of people if Hall wasn’t retained so by bringing back Riley maybe it would ease the sting of another coaching change in these guys careers?

    What are everyone’s thoughts? Or just tell me to shut up and go back and read all those hundreds and hundreds of comments on earlier posts lol.
    Thanks everyone and GO BEAVS!

    • Various credible sources have confirmed GA did have an alcohol problem and did knock up a cheerleader. A few weeks ago he was in a rehab facility in Wyoming. I’m guessing the university would have been able to fire him with cause (void his contract) but because he and Barnes are tight they were able to make it look like GA was “good guy looking out for OSU” by resigning and leaving the money on the table.

      Have heard zero about Tyner leads me to believe he is done.

      There are very few Riley recruits left so I doubt that was the reason he was brought on. It was Riley that asked for the job JS did not seek him out.

      • Not sure I agree on the Tyner situation. He’s a very private person from what I understand so the fact anyone has heard zero regarding Tyner doesn’t mean much right now. As far as the speculation and rumors about GA….these allegations seem a little far-fetched IMO and given today’s access to information I find it hard to believe that this information hasn’t been leaked to the media. I mean the LH situation was 7-9 years ago and then the media got wind of the story and plastered it all over the place over and over and over. I suppose anything is possible but I find the drinking issue much more plausible than him banging a cheerleader….after all, GA was not a GQ looking type of dude or anything so….

        • 1) The LH situation was in public record (s) because the Corvallis police department was inept and didn’t seem to know the law. 2) I wonder if, since the Andersen departure is a State of Oregon personnel issue, what is publicly available. 3) If a young woman becomes a Pac-10 cheerleader, I assume she has worked hard and, while very cute, has an awareness that wouldn’t include an affair with Gary Andersen – old guy, red nose, dumb haircut, looking more and more terrible..

      • If GA was indeed an alcoholic, wouldn’t the University have to have made certain ‘accommodations’ for GA due to the fact that alcoholism has now been declared a ‘disease’ in the workplace? Isn’t that why Sark sued USC after he was terminated, because they hadn’t made proper accommodations that allowed him to party it up during the work day?

  9. One positive with regards to Barnes, he does seem to understand how to schedule. Sucks he has gotten out of the Columbus trip but the move he made in 2020 to get a 7th home game and FCS opponent on the schedule instead of traveling to San Jose is smart.

    Really should add another game in 2019 though. Even if it means 2 FCS opponents, take advantage of traveling to Hawaii by playing an week 0 game.

  10. Oregonlive reporting Keith Heyward and Michael Johnson have signed to stay with Oregon through 2019. KHJ getting $450K.
    Wonder if money prevented us from signing him here? Doesn’t seem like an unreasonably high salary.

    • I don’t think Smith ever made a serious run at getting Heyward. I have seen no evidence that he even contacted him about a position. My guess is that he didn’t fit the ‘low ego, high output’ mantra.

      I think it was a mistake to not go after him. 500K for his recruiting ability alone would have likely been worth it.

        • Glad to hear that, Beavs could use him for recruiting, however, I still feel there is a good chance MR ends up coaching DB’s. So many “feel good” stories about MR having coached both sides of the ball and his early experience handling DB’s.

          • They’re in the dead period right now anyway, so coaches cant be contacting recruits till the 11th. They may already have an agreement with Hall to add him as the #10 coach, but can hold off on hiring him in case they get coach #9 ready to sign before the date coach #10 is allowed to sign, if that makes sense.

          • Understood, and agree with everything you said. Happy to wait for Hall to be signed as #10.

            Who ya got as DB coach? Maybe one for S and one for CB? But that would leave out a dedicated RB coach, right?

  11. Has Oregon St Football Staff salaries been reported to the public yet. I believe I saw JS at 1.9M, but I don’t know that I have seen anyone else yet? Lack of an obvious high level recruiter (I mean besides Riley of course – I kid) is a major concern.

    • Surprised that crack investigative team at the Boregonian hasn’t ferreted it out yet. Danny Moron’s background checker must be on vacation.

      • They haven’t dug it up due to the fact that football sucks. Now if we were #1 and about to play in the CFP, Knight and friends would have leaked it.

    • Several reminders on TV (as Tree fell after leading) of the way nikegon blew big lead in previous Alamo; no mention of MR’s melt down there though.

          • Several CWs were head-scratchers. Putting Wheaton out to chase punt muffs was just bonkers. I couldn’t believe it when the Steelers did it a couple years ago.

            2012 UW was worse, but in the same way. UW and UT were possibly the two worst runs Ds in the country. And we had to be all pass happy.

            2010 after the UW loss was really bad… except for that one surreal USC win. And that led to a 2011 season which I think was as bad as this year in terms of a coach giving up while having obvious talent on his roster.

            2005 and into the beginning of 2006 were clearly zombie talent being led by a quitter.

            I can’t imagine being a Bolts fan in 2000… or 2001 after Pascale was injured and Riley promoted the assistant DB coach to DC.

  12. OT: WBB and Gill
    Pac-12 Networks analyst Mary Murphy says,

    “Oregon State is just turning into this juggernaut with this building that is on the national scene one of the best places to watch and play basketball that there is.”

    “It’s a lot of fun.”

  13. On to some real sports stuff,

    Bball conference season starts much later today.

    MBB vs Colorado – They aren’t a bad team but they aren’t a good team. Stuck in basketball purgatory. If they start shooting the 3 pointer at the ncaa average, they’ll finish in the middle of the pac and an NIT bid. Guard play will determine their fate. Eubanks has taken leaps in his offensive game. Defense is about the same.

    WBB – It’s going to be a rough and tumble kind of year. Potential to win the conference or end up 5th (but not because they are a bad team). Conference depth is that good. NCAA bid is expected unless some huge injuries occur. Team will be much better on offense this year and slightly worse on defense. The two games that really matter is Oregon. UO hasn’t beaten OSU in forever. This year looks to be the year they break the streak.

    • Good points.

      I’m looking for WBB to reduce the TO’s this year as well. Hope the D is good enough to avoid reliance on 3pt shots.
      Any advantage to facing nike at Gill before the trip to their palace? Hate to see it, but Campbell may finally be part of a W over our gals.

      • Another crazy fact for wbb, is that next year, they will be ridiculously deep. The 3 recruits coming in plus Slocum becoming eligible, fans will and should expect a final four run.

  14. PAC 1-5 in the bowl(bowel) season.

    MR’s latest INT machine, Tanner Lee, declares for the draft.
    Perhaps a chance to get a QB transfer from NEB. Frost will not play the guys Riles recruited. He wants true dual threat guys.

    • Missed the first half, see Beavs down 6 at the break.
      We’ve seen the TO bug be solved in the second half in the past, but that’s in the past. Expect Rueck to settle ’em down for the final half.

      What’s the story on the T called on Rueck?

  15. The good, the bad and the ugly about the wbb game.

    Good – shot 50.9% pct and 42.3% from 3pt land. 25 assists on 28 buckets. Held UW to 33.8% shooting.
    The bad – 18 turnovers. Cause of trailing at halftime.
    The ugly – pivec with 6 turnovers plus 5 missed free throws.

    Game should have been 85 – 50 had the beavs not turned the ball over so much.

      • Andrew Grief (who no longer has to get slick willie’s approval before publishing his stories) reports the Beavs were +22 when Pivec was on the floor, despite those 6 TO’s.

          • Spot on!

            TO’s were a big problem most of last year as well and were only offset by a D which was better than we see now.
            Still amazed to see the discrepancy which often occurs between first and second half. As I remember, there are several times when 10-12 TO’s in the first half were followed by <6 in the second.

          • I was at the game and beavs were down 36-25 and outscored Washington 50-27 the rest of the way. Beavs played poorly in the first half and didn’t handle the full court press very well. Two things should have happened to deal with the press…1) should have had Katy bringing the ball up the court and 2) should have gulich at center court as an outlet. Didn’t do that and continued to struggle. Beavs had virtually no on ball pressure to deny entry passes resulting in several 8-10.ft open shots. Second half beavers ramped up the defensive on ball pressure and Washington didn’t handle it. Gulich had only 6 points at half and pivec had 0 as I recall or maybe 2 points…second half gulich dominated in the paint and beavs played their game. Gulich is the best center in the conference offensively and defensively…but the beavers have to play smarter than they did in the first half but part of that is on Rueck too…he needs to figure out his best rotation given the matchups and figure out who the floor leader is….is it katy, pivec, gulich?..he needs to figure that out and then set the expectations on his players…this team is deep and will get better but they’ll take some lumps along the way…I like their scrappy play in the second half when they needed it…bottom line is they won and that’s what matters. They played Notre Dame very, very tough before losing…the same Notre Dame team that played Connecticut even until midway through the fourth quarter….so this beaver team has potential to be very good….it all depends on how this team develops and grow and whether or not a true floor leader emerges…tike will tell…

          • If your solution to a press is to have anyone “bring the ball up the court,” you’re not right. Unless you have Bob Cousy or Michael Warren, you’re a moron to think your handle can beat a solid press.

            Three passes and a dunk.

            Press break.

            If you want to get fancy, four passes and a dunk.

            Never touches the floor. Never have to see a press again.

          • Michael Warren is the best handle I’ve ever seen. Other teams couldn’t catch him to foul. And this was in the days when there was no shot clock. Dean Smith had four corners. John Wooden had Michael Warren.

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