07.Sep.2011 Oregon State @ Wisconsin (Pre-game)

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The Beavers have many things going against them in this game. The early kickoff, lingering injuries, undersized linemen, scheme, coordinators, etc.

It is hard to make a compelling case for the Beavers.

Even so, I do feel some excitement about this game. It's due to the Beaver's two advantages: dynamic wide receivers and the return game (i.e. special teams).

To win a game of this magnitude, OSU will need turnovers, big plays on special teams, and the stable of dynamic WRs to show up. In my mind the game comes down to those three things. I know people believe the game will be decided by Wisconsin's offensive line. From the Badger's perspective, that is probably true, but I'm not sure it's worth discussing their (well-known) strength since the Beavers don't have the roster to counter it. Wisconsin graduated three all-conference players to the NFL (all slated to start for their respective teams) and replaced them with three slow hogs who maul and will one day make the NFL. Wisconsin is a lineman factory. What else is there to say about that?

The Beavs will have to use speed to combat (athletic) size, which rarely works, as the Ducks are finding out. To exploit their ariel advantage, they'll need a QB who can get the ball down field. In steps Sean Mannion. Or does he? Three days before kickoff we still don't know who the starting QB will be. Mannion looks to have the confidence and poise to pull out a miracle, but the sample is small and the atmosphere large. Does he blossom or become a shrinking violet in the autumn air? You'd think the latter…

Despite the mismatch on paper and all signs pointing to a blowout, I am excited about this game. Riley seemed re-focused and pumped up this week, saying coaches were accountable and they'd make the necessary adjustments. If they can do that, and the offense/special teams can use their speed to have a big day, I think the Beavers can put pressure on Wisconsin, and if that happens, who knows. The Beavers also know, psychologically, that somewhere along the line they have to make up for last week's "sure win"…what better time to do that than in a game everyone expects to be a sure loss?

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  • JackBeav says:
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    If Banker frees the DB’s we win 37-31. If not, we lose 52-24.

    Free the DB’s!

    • angry angry says:
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      Agreed, sort of. I think the LBs are more of an issue than the DBs. LBs need to use speed to get to the ball carrier and then gang tackle. The DBs need to play better, obviously, but I don’t know if Wisconsin will throw all that much given their weight advantage.

      There’s so much to digest in this game. The easy prediction is Wisconsin 42-17. But, the Beavs do have some advantages, and if they can exploit them and put pressure on W then I can see a 27-21 shocker.

      I think this is the first game where I have no prediction. Too many unknowns.

      • slamadam says:
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        robinson and wilson will have to step up big time. i agree that wisconsins game plan will probably be to pound the beavers on the ground so im more worried about the d line than anything. having frahm back should help some. anybody know anything about glover?

    • oneoldbeav says:
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      Jack, not sure about your scores but really like the call to free the DB’s. Like something out of the 60’s……Free the DB Four!
      That said, the Badgers still have a decent running game and a mobile QB, it will take more than Free DB play but that sure would be a great start!

  • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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    Ironically, the Beavers this week find themselves in the position of Sac State last week. The Beavs are big underdogs, going into a tough venue, against an opponent that has bigger, stronger players. Sac State beat the odds. The Beavers could, too.

    I think the Beavers match up decently against Wisconsin. Watching Wisconsin’s game last week on TV, Wisconsin’s defense looked slow at the edges. UNLV runners were consistently gaining yards to the outside. The Beavers can, too (our fly sweep, for example, should work well…)

    On the other side of the ball, the Beavers in the Sac State game looked good against the run. Yes, Wisconsin’s running game is MUCH better than Sac State’s, and the Beavers’ undersized front 7 will be physically overmatched. But maybe we can hang in there, at least for the first two or three quarters….

    The Beavers’ best chance to win is probably to get a fast start and a sizeable lead (via turnovers, big special team plays, or breakaway plays on runs or passes). If we can make Wisconsin play catchup, and prevent Wisconsin from grinding us down with their power running game in the second half (as OSU did to Sac State towards the end of Saturday’s game), we’ve got a puncher’s chance.

    And then, of course, it will be fun to see how Mannion performs on a big stage. And to see whether Katz can step up.

    I’m excited, too….

    • angry angry says:
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      I agree, W’s defense is slow on the edges (LBs specifically). I didn’t think their secondary looked great, either. W is good at being big. That might be enough against the Beavs, but the Beavs do have a speed advantage on the edge. Now it’s a matter of a creative game plan that exploits that without going to it too often/knowing when to go vertical, etc. Of course, execution too. Having those advantages means nothing if guys get procedural calls, miss blocks, etc.

      • JackBeav says:
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        Their LB’s were slow to the edge. Their d-line got nothing against an o-line worse than ours. And when someone managed to get to a ball-carrier, they couldn’t tackle. There wasn’t much to see from their DB’s because UNLV’s QB played about as well as Katz did. But they did look lost on some plays they should have controlled.

        Their offense is another beast. Their strengths play into what apparently are our defensive strengths. But they are much bigger and stronger than we are up front. So our LB’s will need to step up big in this one to get behind that o-line and disrupt their backfield. Everyone wants to talk about Wilson’s great play, but he wasn’t all that spectacular except for the TD run. UNLV’s strength on D is their line, and they were negated by W’s o-line. Besides that, Wilson made most of his passing yards on screens and to the TE. His two (?) misses were pretty bad throws, and some of his downfield throws were completions because UNLV’s secondary is pretty bad. I have no idea what that says about what he’ll do against us. Maybe he corrects his faults and flourishes against us. Maybe he plays the same, and we shut him down. But if we get to him early and keep their offense in front of us, we can be in this game from beginning to end.

        That’s where platooning the QB might help our scheme. If that wasn’t the plan, I would say this game turns out like the 2006 game at Boise where we started off strong then Ian Johnson ran all over us while Zabransky pulled it down for big gainer after big gainer… and Van Orsow just looked more and more tired as the game progressed going against Clady.

      • angry angry says:
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        Don’t you get the feeling Wisconsin is going to have the D off balance all game? I envision a lot of screens that go for big yards and Wilson busting runs that break our guys’ wills. Misdirection type stuff, too. They know the D will be overly concerned with stopping the mobile QB, and I think W will game plan well (with misdirection) to mask their (lack of )speed. I’ve always loved Wisconsin’s style of basketball and football. It’s very smart and minimizes weakness.

        • JackBeav says:
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          I think they will try to run it right at us, then they will employ play-action and screens. But I don’t see them doing much else as far as misdirection is concerned. I feel better about our D’s ability to mitigate QB scrambles than I did last year… not great or even good, but better. If we improve to the point where we can play Wilson like we did Fleming, then I’ll feel good.

          And Wisconsin is conservative enough that they will try the pass plays on first down and third and long. If we read those correctly, we can push them to 3rd down more often than they are comfortable. I didn’t look at their conversion rate, but I would guess the denominator was close to 0 last week.

        • osbeavs says:
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          I am not sure if Wisconsin will try to run that much misdirection, they are arrogant enough that they will try to just mash it down our throat. I think they will beat us because their QB can scramble. We may match up well in every aspect of the game but ultimately we will fail because we don’t defend the scrambler well.

          • angry angry says:
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            I wouldn’t say a lot, but I can see them running it down our throat the majority of the time, then doing some QB rollout/stretch play where they screen to the other side of the field and we have nobody there (b/c our defense has to over-commit in order to get stops). I think they’ll do some screens and short passes to convert 3rd &longs that drive us nuts, too. And when that’s not happening, Wilson will scramble for it. The D is a worry. Gotta score a lot and get turnovers.

  • cloudy says:
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    beating wisconsin a week after losing to an fcs team would be very mike riley/oregon state. in that way, I won’t be surprised if they do pull off the upset

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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    The biggest thing the Beavs have going for them is the Wisconsin players won’t be taking them seriously. Yawn, show up, win the game and go to a party. Here’s hoping that it’s the Beavs who will be partying but I rather doubt it.

    P.S. fwiw – I was rather impressed with the Wisconsin QB. He has the potential to pick the OSU secondary apart.

  • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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    Malcolm Agnew is “doubtful” for Wisconsin due to his tweaked hamstring. Riley will probably keep him out, so Agnew can use the bye week to recover and be ready for UCLA and the PAC-12 season. That would be the smart move.

    So now we get to see what Terron Ward can do….

    • In their head says:
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      That’s ok, Agnew is still gonna average 100+ per game if he sits this one out. Go get em Ward

    • JackBeav says:
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      I like Ward in this game as well. Small and downhill with an extra gear might be pretty workable against a Big T(welv)en team. I also really like the way Jenkins was used. I wish he had another 20-30 pounds on him, because he looks like a prototypical West Coast offense FB coming out of the backfield. And maybe we get a look at Woods? I doubt we burn his redshirt, but RB is the most likely for Riley to do so.

    • locusimperium says:
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      this really kills my positive energy for this game. terron ward is a complete unknown to me and after agnew’s last game he seems to be legit

  • In their head says:
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    Pretty much everybody east of I-5 is calling this a huge blowout, and it could be. Camp Randle will be a hostile environment to the extreme. The average Wisconsin fan throughly believes this west coast beaver team cannot measure up in anyway what so ever. They are more concerned about northern Illinois than OSU. They believe in their heart that this years Wisconsin team will carry them to the promise land. But they are football smart, and know their defense is seen as the weak link in the shlacking they gave unlv. And that to me seems like the biggest prayer the beavs have. To silience 80,321 fans with a methodical offensive touchdown drives each position. That coupled with an early surprise by our d. Maybe its a lucky turnover, or a huge sack and 3 and out. If our D can get off the field, and our O makes their D look weak, then there stands to be a chance to puzzle the 80k in red. But this team has the staff and talent to make some major adjustments. The biggest challenge to our upset is their mobile and talented qb. If we find ourselves down early, it may be a long day including viscous taunts, we are afterall a pac10 team. And big10ers love to rag on pac10.

    • tim318 says:
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      I live west of I-5 and am a Beavers fan and am calling for a blowout by Wisconsin.

      What about last week’s games against Sac St. and UNLV makes you think that Wisconsin has a weakness that OSU can exploit. And they aren’t overlooking OSU. Not with 9 days to prepare and nothing but home games and cupcakes on the schedule for the next month.

      Wilson is going to explode against the Beavers.

      • JackBeav says:
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        They have plenty of weaknesses to exploit. Their WR’s are sub-par. Their D is very weak against the run, and they have problems tackling. Their DB’s are untested as of yet, but their fans seem to think they are also sub-par for whatever reason.

        The question is, will we even be able to exploit those weaknesses. Smart money should say no, especially in a road game in September. But what about the Beavs has ever been smart? It seems that whenever you bet against them for what should be the right reasons, you’re only correct to bet against them 60% of the time, and it will be for the wrong reasons.

        They certainly can see plenty of weaknesses in our game to exploit. But again, will they exploit them? I think they ignore them for the most part and just try to run us over. And I think that will work so long as they don’t get fancy. But I wouldn’t put it past them to try bubble screens and roll-outs after our game last week. And that’s where they could falter if we correct our DB play. If not, then it’s just gonna be a long morning either way.

    • angry angry says:
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      That sucks that W fans are giant dildos. I actually admire what they have going on and it’s harder to do that when the fans are giant dildos.

      • WFO WFO says:
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        So true.

        Every team has their crew of fucksticks but I don’t know if any are worse than Notre Dame.

      • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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        What makes you think this about W fans Angry? I’ve been in contact with many on a few different forums and have found the exact opposite. Very nice, knowledgeable people. I can’t wait to get there and see the environment in person.
        But NOTHING I have seen would lead me to believe they are giant dildos.

  • JD says:
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    After watching Banker’s D year after year have the same weaknesses, I feel that scheme wise the Beavs match up well with Wisconsin’s offense. I think that the D could get some stops and give them trouble early.

    • osbeavs says:
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      Which defense have you been watching? The one that I have watched has been repeatedly torched by a running QB. Wisconsin QB is a scrambler. That means the weakness of our D plays right into a natural strength for them.

      • JD says:
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        Being torched by running QBs was based more on a lack of speed by our linebackers and not specifically the scheme. Lack of athletic ability is not a weakness of defensive scheme. Wisconsin runs a more traditional pro style offense, which Banker’s D works better against than a spread or 3-4 WR sets.
        I don’t see Wisconsin running a lot of trips where we have to try and cover a slot receiver with a linebacker.

        • osbeavs says:
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          You missed my point. Let’s say they line up with two wideouts, we will counter with out base set (we would go nickel if they add more wideouts). The result is less overall speed. Now Russell Wilson will run on broken pass plays. He will make big gains and convert key third downs based on that athletic ability alone. Even though our lbs are more athletic they still won’t be able to react quickly enough. Tuel murdered us last year, Wilson is a much better athlete. We will lose by 24+

          • JD says:
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            I think you missed my original point. We pretty much stay in our base set unless the opponent goes 4-5 wide. I was trying to say that Banker’s defensive scheme fairs much better against a pro style set (RB, FB, TE and 2 WR or RB, 2 TE and 2 WR) USC is a perfect example. I’m not saying that we won’t get hurt by a good scrambler but our “gap cancellation” defense that our coaches are too stubborn/stupid to make adjustments to matches up better with Wisconsin’s style than a spread offense.

          • osbeavs says:
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            It’s true that it works better against a pro set than a spread but it failed against pro sets with scrambling qbs just as much as it does the spread.

  • OStateBro says:
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    I’m sensing there is some hope out there. Don’t kid yourselves. Let’s be honest and acknowledge we have a 12.5% chance of winning this game. Last week proves it, our road record early in seasons prove it, the match-ups prove it, injuries, etc.

    I’m in a Pac-12 Pick-Em pool against the spread and Wisconsin may be my Lock of the Week.

    My outlook is prepare for the worst/hope for the best.

    That being said, none of that changes the fact that I’m VERY excited.

  • angry angry says:
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    Whatifsports puts our chances of winning at 8.9%

    http://www.whatifsports.com/beyondtheboxscore/default.asp?article=201109100036

    They also had our chances of beating Sac State at 90+%.

    • locusimperium says:
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      its rains 50 percent of the time there is a ten percent chance of rain 🙂

    • numbers says:
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      Interesting simulation. They have the Beavs passing 18-33 and rushing 28 times

    • OStateBro says:
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      Stats seem pretty realistic. But sims aren’t fact – that’s why we play the games right? 🙂

      Riley always seems to come through when I least expect it….

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      What If Sports is cool. I never thought I would be able to play simulatied Federal League baseball games in my lifetime!

      • angry angry says:
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        Where do you see the Federalist League on there?

        You should check out Diamond Mind Baseball if you are into turn of the century baseball and simulation.

        • mckalk mckalk says:
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          It’s under MLB Sim Match Up. I play Buffalo for shits and giggles. I read somwhere that the right field fence was 240ft or something insane. Thanks for the tip on the other site. I will have to check it out.

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    Hey, its a perfect giant killer scenario. And if the OSU players and coaches arent TOTALLY PISSED OFF, there is no hope. For me, just show that you havent written off the season. Go in and give em hell!

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Emotional investment in this beaver team is probably not wise. Banker rarely does well against mobile qb’s, this one can throw accurately, OSU’s db’s were awful and will again be caught out of position frequently, big non-conference foe on the road, etc. Expecting something other than a blowout loss is either hope or faith.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      Considering previous history, this would be the mother of all upsets.

  • WFO WFO says:
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    Here’s my out of left field wild ass guess for the week:

    Katz gets pissed off,goes off the grid and wins this game with his feet.

    Don’t take that to the bank :D.

  • Orange Lantern says:
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    Fan letter to AD Bob De Carolis:

    http://beaverbyte.com

  • WFO WFO says:
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    And OSU takes their rightful spot in this weeks bottom 10. Sweet.

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/page/bottom10110907/looking-local-ymca-reinforcements-bottom-10

    • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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      From the “Bottom Ten”: “…(If you’re new to the Bottom 10 party, No. 5 is reserved for the top BCS blunder of the week.)…”

      In case you didn’t notice he had Oregon State in at #5. Ouch!

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        I remember the original bottom ten and with OSU losing and Kansas State beating Eastern Kentuck 10-7, it feels like 1982 all over again!

  • osbeavs says:
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    If I had to pick one advantage for us in this game, its that Wilson is not clutch. Watching him at NC ST last year he had a few moments when we could lead a come from behind victory late and he would choke. If we somehow stay in this thing til the end, we will win it.

  • SalemBeav says:
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    I have enjoyed reading the comments today. I like all the optimism. In the back of my mind is “not a snow balls chance in hell”, but there is a glimmer of hope. I have always liked tall qb’s. I remember how we got torn apart by Foles in his inaugural game at Reeser a couple of years ago. Katz and Mannion could both tank, but we have hope. We know what Katz will probably do, as he has for the past 9 games. But Mannion is an unknown. And in that there is hope. If Rogers was returning maybe Katz would show some improvement. I think Rogers was so amazing at getting open, Katz felt confident. After Rogers is gone, there is no go to guy and a bunch of interceptions. He has looked rattled ever since. Enter sports psychologist.

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      Ryan Katz could lock on James Rodgers as his primary receiver and rely on JRod getting open pretty much every time and catching the ball. That’s how good JRod was. That’s also why Katz’s fatal flaw (locking on his primary receiver to the exclusion of everything else) was not exposed until JRod went down.

      This is not something that can be fixed by a sports psychologist. This can only be fixed (if at all) by a QB coach working with Katz to help Katz see the field better, and to stop Katz from locking on his primary receiver at the snap. Until this changes, Katz will keep throwing incompletions and interceptions, and Katz’s lack of confidence will be well-justified.

      • helmsley says:
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        I notice you say “if at all”. If I am to believe what I read on the sports pages, one of DA’s foremost weaknesses – no matter the team or the coach – is “locking on his primary receiver to the exclusion of everything else”. Are there those who are capable of learning how to see the field and, perhaps, those who simply will never be able to survey it?

        • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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          Yes. Good coaching helps. So does experience. But only so much.

          Joe Montana had an innate, uncanny ability to scan the field quickly, spot open receivers, and make sound, split-second decisions. Closer to home (and at a lesser, but still impressive level) Beavers QB Jonathan Smith had the ability to see the whole field before throwing the ball.

          Ryan Katz is at the opposite end of the spectrum. I doubt that Katz could ever be “coached up” to read the field as well as Jonathan Smith (much less Joe Montana). But there is little doubt that good coaching (and lots of practice) could address Katz’s current “tunnel vision” problem, and help Katz perform better. Why hasn’t that happened yet? That would be a good question for QB Coach Langsdorf (and for Coach Riley, too…)

          • oneoldbeav says:
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            Notable that Smith was only 5’10” or so and yet he had enough football smarts to get into position to see the whole field.
            How much more experience as OC for Montana (U not Joe) till Smith is ready to take Langsdorf’s job?

          • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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            If I were Riley, I’d make that switch today….

          • oneoldbeav says:
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            Yup.
            And, unlike Katz, Smith was elected team captain as a Jr.

          • helmsley says:
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            The Griz aren’t predicted to be all that good this year. Not suggesting it’s Jonathan Smith’s doing, and they may surprise people. Nate Montana had a DUI during the summer and doesn’t appear to be in contention to start at QB.

  • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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    It’s a September road game, Ryan Katz is starting, Wisconsin will be able to run it down the Beavers throats, doubtful the technique by the DB’s will be any better. Wisconsin 51, Oregon State 20

  • michaelm says:
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    Per Buker on Twitter, Riley apparently bitched the team out today for lack of enthusiasm. Loudly told them if they were going to stick their tail between their legs, they could just leave.

    • beavers4life beavers4life says:
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      That’s what’s been missing right? That’s the Riley we haven’t seen yet! He’s upset! YAY!!!

      • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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        As my daddy used to say, a day late and a dollar short.

        I’m sure that saying came from the depression era when the dollar actually meant something.

    • angry angry says:
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      Uh oh. Not a good sign he has to motivate them for a game on ESPN.

      • beavers4life beavers4life says:
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        perhaps their not enthused because they’re embarrassed and are afraid they’re going to be embarrassed again in front of national viewers as the first game of the day!

        • helmsley says:
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          Perhaps they aren’t enthused because they read fan blogs and know that the fans doubt the coaching staff, for the most part.

      • StarcraftSquall says:
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        Given our track record on ESPN away from Reser, I think he’s probably been too easy on them angry.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      As pathetic as it is surprising.

    • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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      Was at practice and overheard Riley say to the team:

      “Gosh Darn it guys!!! It’s time to get fired up!!! We’re playing against a mighty swell football team this weekend and need to whoop their tails for the whole dang country to see!! Hip Hip—Hoooray!!”

      • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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        shoot, Billy and I must have been seeing the same thing. you beat me to it. funny that we both “heard” the “hip hip hooray”…haha

        • angry angry says:
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          Wait, you guys are serious?

          I thought this was a joke.

          • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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            Not serious, we were both cracking a joke independently of each other. I read Billy’s post after I posted mine and cracked up because we both included a “hip hip hooray” in our story. so predictable….

  • OStateBro says:
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    Is there a replay of the game available online?

  • Billy says:
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    As I said on Cliff’s blog, I can hear Riley “ripping” them now. “Gosh dang it you upstanding young student-athletes. Get your rumps in gear. Sorry, should have said backsides. However, you certainly weren’t going heck-bent for leather. More effort would be pretty gosh-darn neat. Gee willikers, thats better. Hip hip, hooray!! Sorry(sort of), couldn’t resist.

  • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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    Off topic, but I just got back from spending a week in the bay area. I drove nearly every day and covered alot of ground between San Fran/Oakland/Napa/Davis. A few things stood out to me as major difference between Portland area drivers and Bay area drivers.

    First, Portland drivers have their heads up their ass. I loved the organized chaos driving around and never felt like I was in danger of being hit by another car, because people were paying attention to what they were doing. I get back to Portland I can’t believe how frustrating it is to drive around. People just don’t have the sense of urgency to move here and don’t seem to be paying attention. Sooooooo annoying…..

    Second, I rarely saw a bay area vehicle with a CAL or Stanford bumper or window sticker. If you can believe it, I actually saw more giant “O” stickers during my trip than any other team. Back here in Portland, every 5th car I pass has either Oregon or Oregon State bling. Same can be applied to clothing. Nobody in the bay area was wearing CAL or Stanford shirts/hats/pants/etc. (yes, i saw more people there wearing Oregon clothing than any other school, it was sickening)

    What is causing this difference? Do the Californians not care about their teams like the locals because they have so many more pro-sport teams to follow? Or are CAL and Berkley too elite academically so the common person doesn’t make it into those schools, making those schools that much tougher to root for? Living in the Portland area, almost everybody has a family member that has been to either UO or OSU. I came away impressed with the marketing job the UofO and even Oregon State have done in this area, just getting their fan bases too shell out money for merchandise.

    Sorry to get off topic, just wanted to share my observation.

    Also, I’m glad I didn’t have to watch the game Saturday. I followed it on my phone while taking a class and couldn’t believe the updates I was seeing. I knew Sac St would win as soon as we missed that final field goal. So sad…..

  • OStateBro says:
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    Riley is on 750am talking to Canzano. Not saying much to give us hope. When asked if this team has it in them to turn it around his answer was basically, “no, not yet.”

    So Riley has a team that he doesn’t believe in….is that the take away? If that’s the case who does Riley have to blame other than himself, ultimately?

    • angry angry says:
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      Jeez, they are going to get killed.

      • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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        Pretty much. That’s why I have them losing by 31.

      • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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        Yeah, I think its going to be ugly.
        I like Riley showing some fire, however I gotta wonder if he has already (week 1) lost this team??

        Without the Rodgers brothers there doesn’t seem to be any leadership. I did notice something in week 1 that I have not brought up, but I was reminded of it when Riley said he thought the team was “tight”. When we came out of the helmet to run unto the field I noticed Katz was leading the team and he ran out prematurely and by himself (or with one other player) and the rest of the team didn’t run out as they looked like they wanted to gather in a huddle and jump around then head out. So Katz ran back to the helmet and then told the guys let’s go and then the ran out. It looked unorganized and like they were not together and didn’t have the leadership to keep everybody together. Maybe it was insignificant I keep thinking back to that and wonder if it was precursor to what was going to happen in the game?

        • sparkyd73 says:
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          Good observation, it was very odd, but in the context that we’ve been questioning Katz’s leadership it is interesting. Here you have your starting QB yelling at his teammates to follow him. And yet they weren’t coming. Mitchell then came out and finally the team rushed the field.

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      Here is a link to the podcast of today’s discussion between Mike Riley and John Canzano: http://www.750thegame.com/pages/landing?Riley-Confidence-has-to-be-worked-on=1&blockID=548218&feedID=9710

      On the subject of Mannion vs Katz, I found the following part of the discussion particularly interesting:

      Q: “If this [QB] job is really still up in the air, what are you looking from one of those two guys?”

      A: “What we really need there is consistency in the biggest fashion. Consistency of reads. Consistency of knowing what to do with the football and doing it quickly….When the light came on for Sean Canfield, that was his biggest change and everything changed dramatically after that. The ball was out. The protection problems basically went away. He handled all that with quick decisionmaking and getting the ball out of his hands. So that’s one of the key, key factors in quarterbacking, especially in what we do.”

      Seems clear where Riley is going with this. When it comes to reading the defense and making quick decisions, the light has not yet come on for Ryan Katz. Meanwhile, Mannion is already doing well in this area for a redshirt freshman, and getting better (which is why Mannion has suddenly been promoted).

      If, as Riley suggests, the QB competition comes down to who makes the best and quickest reads and decisions, I think the outcome is a foregone conclusion. Katz won’t be playing QB for the Beavers much longer….

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        To play devil’s advocate, a lot of us used to bitch about Canfield’s dinking and dunking. Sure the ball got out quicker, but often times it was a 5 yard curl to Jacquizz on 3rd and 9. I think Matt Moore or Derek Andersen are better examples.

        • OStateBro says:
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          Matt Moore is a great example. The only thing DA can be an example for is interceptions.

          • OStateBro says:
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            Lots and lots of interceptions. Jezuz I’m still traumatized from the years when DA was QB. I’m having flashbacks.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            I think DA was 29-17 his senior year, not bad.

  • Quatre Quatre says:
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    Haven’t been following much about football this season, but if the Beavs only advantage involves the little mermaid, the Beavs are in trouble.

  • StarcraftSquall says:
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    Phil Steele is back with his weekly breakdown of college football, and here is his analysis on Oregon State @ Wisconsin:

    OSU is 2-8 SU S/‘90 when facing an AQ non-conf school. UW has a couple of extra days of prep after playing on Thurs, destroying UNLV on ESPN, 51-17 as they scored on their 1st 8 poss (7 TD). OSU is making an odd trip to the Midwest after being upset by FCS Sac St 29-28 in OT at home in the opener, but does have a bye on deck. The Beavers became just the 7th team S/’80 to lose their opener as a HF of 24 or more despite a 496-367 yd edge as a wild flurry ended regulation as a Beaver fmbl at the SSt23 was ret’d 55 yd by the Hornets to the Beavers 23. Sac St had a 28 yd FG blk’d with 2:35 left and the Beavers drove to the SSt5 only to miss a 27 yd FG on the final play of reg. OSU QB Katz started vs FOUR Top 10 tms (3-1 ATS) LY, but was benched for the 2H/OT LW in favor of Mannion who Riley said had a good camp and WR Rogers DNP. UW barely got past Ariz St (-12) by 1 LY at home but didn’t have QB Wilson who hit 10-13 for 255 yds while accounting for 3 TD’s in his Badgers debut. OSU HC Riley is 1-11 SU and 2-12 ATS on the road in Sept and will be hard pressed to improve that rec’d here.
    WISCONSIN 37 OREGON STATE 20

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      Seems pretty reasonable. Steele is obsessed about total yardage comparisons, but he is right to some degree, Beavs almost had 500 yards and that should have led to at least 38 points.

    • numbers says:
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      Any chance of expanding those abreviations for next weeks installment? I can eventually figure them out, but I have to take extra thought to do it….

      • StarcraftSquall says:
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        SU = straight up, AQ = automatic qualifyer, HF = home favorite, LW = last week, DNP = did not play, HC = head coach, the rest should be easy

  • Orange Lantern says:
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    Here is a rarely suggested idea but could be doable. Paul Chryst for OSU Head Coach if Leach or Petersen can’t be got. Chryst has put up gawdy numbers as OC the past few seasons at Wisconsin and seems like he would be interested in being a head coach pretty soon. A PAC-12 head coaching gig in a premier conference with all the exposure and financial advantages is about as good as it will get for many coaches these days. The Oregon State job is not unattractive to a coach with high confidence in himself. Leach and Petersen come to mind immediately but Chryst is interesting as well as maybe an easier lure who has history with the program. I don’t see history with the program as something we need but I imagine in BDC’s eyes, since I expect by default he will be around for awhile, he may not mind it.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Leach would be a great texas connection to strengthen recruiting in a PAC12 or PAC16 context.

      • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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        I really get the feeling its the coaching. Losing in OT to lesser teams …

        Well, maybe with the increased TV money, OSU can buy Riley out.

    • slamadam says:
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      riley is going anywhere. youre just torturing yourself thinking otherwise.

  • StarcraftSquall says:
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    Here is the Pac-12 Schedule for this week, so you people who like to scout the rest of the league and upcoming opponents (and who doesn’t?) know where to look. Enclosed is the power rating point spread based on my personal formula, which seems to keep a fairly accurate (and non-biased) reaction to each team. The TV schedule is for the Northwest-accessible channels only.

    THURSDAY
    Arizona at Oklahoma State, 5:00 PM ESPN Cowboys by 12.5

    FRIDAY
    Missouri at Arizona State, 7:30 PM ESPN Sun Devils by 6

    SATURDAY

    Oregon State at Wisconsin, 9:00 AM ESPN Badgers by 13

    California at Colorado, 12:30 PM Golden Bears by 2.5
    Stanford at Duke, 12:30 PM ESPNU Cardinal by 17.5
    Nevada at Oregon, 12:30 PM FX Ducks by 20
    Hawaii at Washington, 12:30 PM Root NW Huskies by 9
    UNLV at Washington State, 2:00 PM Cougars by 13
    Utah at USC, 4:30 PM Versus Trojans by 8
    San Jose State at UCLA, 7:00 PM Bruins by 17

    • Max says:
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      What metrics do you use in your formula? Seems to differ from the Vegas lines by quite a bit. however It’s early in the season.

      With those line, I got:
      OKSt
      Mizzu
      Wisconsin
      Cal
      Stanford
      Oregon
      Hawaii
      UNLV
      Utah
      UCLA

      • StarcraftSquall says:
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        Overall power rating, past game performance, home field advantage, stuff like that. Home field advantage is undervalued with Vegas.

  • angry angry says:
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    That Riley/Canzano interview is depressing. Riley has no belief or confidence.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      I thought Riley sounded kind of depressed. He was pretty close to being an apologist for his team. Did you notice when Canzano was praising Agnew’s performance how quick Riley was to point out his injury and that he probably would not play against Wisconsin?

      I think he is trying to leverage the youth and injuries to explain a subpar season in the making and then hope he can survive the shit storm that will come from two straight losing seasons. He’s probably thinking 2012 has got to be better with the upturn in recruiting.

  • ChrisW12 says:
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    I wish Ward would have got some carries last game. I have high hope for him this game

    • oneoldbeav says:
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      Agreed, Chris, last game was the time we should have seen a few carries for Ward and other RB’s. Now they have to get that experience on a more nerve wracking stage.

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        Although the official line is that Agnew hurt his hammy in Tuesday’s practice, who knows what effect the typical “Riley over-usage” had on his leg. From what I saw it looked like any above average D-1 back would have made good yardage in the second half against Sac.St. There were some very nice holes. Riley could have given other backs some carries, especially give Agnew’s history with his hamstring. Riley and staff have some responsibility here.

        • Billy says:
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          Agree with all three of you. Riley’s overuse of one back gets old. Speaking of running too much, chatted with my buddy from my grad school days in Eugene, the hall of fame qb. He was stunned when I told him our OC called 22 passes in the 1st half against a team we could run against at will. He asked what our OC could possibly have been thinking. I told him not to get me started about our OC.

          • angry angry says:
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            Please get Dan Fouts to post here. haha.

          • Billy says:
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            I’ve told him about your blog. He’s intrigued, though I doubt he’s checked it out yet.

    • JackBeav says:
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      I’m not sure why you’re suddenly relying on Buker and Canzano for the true slant. Nor am I sure why you equate our team’s condition with their writing styles.

      Buried in Buker’s column:
      http://host.madison.com/sports/college/football/article_99036822-d8f5-11e0-94db-001cc4c002e0.html

      Obviously written without the news of the Agnew injury, but closer to reality than our schmucks provide. On a positive note, Buker seems to be forgetting to mention his alma mater in OSU stories at an increasing rate.

      • sparkyd73 says:
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        Buker tries to be funny. The guy does not seem to have a funny bone in his body. I’m sure some of you watched this video of Buker and Lindsey Schnell.

        http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2011/09/oregon_state_football_paul_buk.html

        I’m fine with journalists giving their opinion. But this had absolutely zero value. It was solely a fluff attempt at humor and there is a reason that these people are print journalists and not on TV. The article that Jack shared above is well done, just giving the information that a Wisconsin fan needs to know about the Beavers. Pathetic.

  • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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    Brandon Sprague is tweeting: “Riley has repeatedly said that Ryan Katz is starting the game, but thus far in 2 practices, he hasn’t taken a single snap with the 1s.”

    I wonder if Casey Mattews hit on Katz in the Civil War has anything to do with setting up this controversy. I’m thinking Katz blamed the O-line for leaving him completely unprotected and primed for injury. The team just doesn’t seem to have Katz back any longer, which is unfortunate for him. I’m all for Mannion getting plenty of reps this season, but I don’t really think Katz has done anything to deserve this demotion. (although I didn’t get to see any video from the sac state game)

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      You do need to check out video of the Sac State game. But it’s more than that….

      Katz is being demoted for poor performance during the last half of the 2010 season, Fall camp, and the first half against Sac State. Mannion is being promoted for good performance during Spring camp (which Katz missed with a broken wrist), Fall camp, and the second half against Sac State.

      More important, Mannion — even as a redshirt freshman — appears to be a better and quicker decision-maker than Katz (who is in his fourth year of the program). Mannion appears to have a big upside, while Katz appears to be stuck in the mud, making the same mistakes he made last year.

      This Saturday’s game against Wisconsin is likely a make-or-break game for Ryan Katz. If Katz delivers another clunker, that may be it for him…..

      • angry angry says:
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        SS, the way this is trending, I’d be surprised to see Katz play at all. Maybe on designed read/option plays but I do not think he starts. Riley’s language all week has been aimed at softening the blow. To me that says Katz won’t start.

        • JackBeav says:
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          Katz could also be “attituding” his way out of the start.

          • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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            I agree. Sure, this is hard on Katz, but I expected Katz to put on a better show of being a team player. Katz appears to be sulking, and feeling sorry for himself (aided and abetted by local hack reporters who are crying about unfair treatment and scapegoating). Riley can’t be happy about that.

            If I were Riley, I’d still start Katz against Wisconsin, and get this over with. There’s no real downside to starting Katz. If Katz steps up and does the job, great. If Katz blows it, that just makes it easier to put in Mannion.

            If Riley starts Mannion against Wisconsin, that tells me that Riley has truly given up on Ryan Katz. If so, that’s okay with me, too….

          • WFO WFO says:
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            Agree 100%.

            If Katz is all pissy cuz he thinks he’s the man,then here’s his chance.

            Go out in the big game and make big plays. If you can’t get it done then it is what it is.

            I just hope that Riley doesn’t leave him in if he’s ineffective. We all saw what one half of Katzball got us against Sac St.

        • sparkyd73 says:
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          I don’t think Riley will say all week that Katz is the starter and then start Mannion. It may be that Katz is in on first down and Mannion comes in for second, but I believe Riley holds to what he has been saying. Obviously you are all right that if Katz’s attitude has been poor, that may be a game changer.

      • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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        Do you or anybody else know where video of the game can be found? I’m interested in seeing how things went down.

        I agree with you that Mannion is the better decision maker and needs to be playing, especially since he will be the QB the next few years when our improving recruiting classes will be hitting their stride. Seems like we are always breaking in a new QB during years when we have experience on the line and receiving positions, but when we have a solid veteran, those positions are a little green. Will be nice to have all groups maturing together for once.

        • JackBeav says:
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          Here are some highlights:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrtM9LsFsj0

          I didn’t realize Mannion double clutched then short-armed that toss to Wheaton. But he did it while sliding up into a shallow pocket. That’s typical of what we saw. Compare that to Katz’ INT.

          • angry angry says:
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            I didn’t realize Watkins was burned on the first 2tds. Poyer had a crap game, too. Though, that is clearly offensive PI on the final play. Beavs never get calls–don’t quite understand how they don’t get that call at home vs a FCS team.

          • JackBeav says:
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            To be fair, that pass back TD wasn’t Watkins’ fault. If he doesn’t bite on run, the WR is running all day with no CB within 10 yards.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            I saw some slo-mo stuff that makes it look like the Sac.St receivers butt hit the out of bounds line on the two point conversion. I don’t know if the video I saw was manipulated, but it looked close enough to review. He may have dragged the foot before his butt hit, but how do you not get a review on the game deciding play? That play was much closer than you could tell from the “great” stream we got. I didn’t even realize he kind of caught it falling down. I thought he caught it in stride.

          • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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            I can’t help but compare Agnew in the video to Ken Simonton. The “35” jersey might be part of that, but he also seems to carry himself in a similar manner when running.
            Mannion’s windup looks slow, but at least he’s finding the open receiver.
            And the offensive pass interference was so blatant on that last play. If they call it on Poyer (declined) on the touchdown pass, they should call it the other way on the 2pt conversion. Refs were definitely lacking balls on that play.

          • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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            Just reviewed the video of Katz’s interception. It’s revealing.

            Katz tracks his primary receiver from the snap (looks like it may be Bishop running a slant pattern from right to left, but hard to tell). The primary receiver is not open. So Katz turns quickly to his right, where Brandin Cooks is running a sideline pattern. Without taking even a half second to confirm that Cooks is open, Katz simply fires a pass to Cooks. Unfortunately, the DB was sitting on the play, and makes the interception.

            Classic Katz. He spends too much time looking at his primary receiver, and then too little time before throwing to a secondary receiver, relying on his “cannon” to get the job done, regardless of coverage. This video provides a textbook example.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            That play was so bad that without being too “dramatic”, I sincerely wonder if it was some kind of tipping point in Riley’s mind. Just seems ike something is going on with Katz mentally that has little to do with his physical skills.

  • Orange Lantern says:
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    I do like the Sun Tzu strategy of making Wisconsin think Katz will be more involved then he really will be. Too bad Sprague let the cat out of the bag.

    The way I see t, if Mannion has the leadership qualities I believe he has, the best hopes for this program is for him to take those traits and lead the Beavers forward and into PAC play. I think we will have some close games and he will learn a lot in getting some grind out W’s in some of these PAC games. I think it could forge him into something pretty good for Oregon St and getting almost a full 4 years out of him at a productive level early and improving more as we go brings hope.

    A team has to be lead so everyone has their heads into it and are on the same page working to win together. Mannion is our best bet to get there sooner and play with more consistency from week to week. My gut tells me he could be the best leader since Jonathan Smith in another 5 or 6 weeks. That is the best hope I see out there and receivers will be better when James gets back and next year as well.

    • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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      I haven’t seen Mannion play at all, aside from some non contact drills in practice. Can anybody who’s seen the scrimmages or watched the Sac State game comment about his abilities to scramble? Is he at all mobile, or is he strictly a pocket passer? He seems too tall to run the ball effectively. What other QB’s can you compare him to style wise? Also, has he taken any sacks yet or has he avoided that by dumping the ball very effectively? Just curious.

      • Orange Lantern says:
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        What I saw is he is a little like Canfield when he was getting the ball out of his hands in the first few seconds, being decisive and completing 70% of passes. He was 8 of 12, but 2 were spikes that Riley had him do to stop the clock and one was dropped. So looking good on accurcay and touch. He moves his feet around to find the passing lanes but mostly stays in the pocket. He is 6-5 so he sees the routes pretty good and has less balls batted down. He doesn’t seem to overthrow guys and think “Hey I was close, not bad” which is appreciated.

        • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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          Who was receiving the short plays mostly? Canfield had Quizz which made the short pass game very effective and really boosted Canfield’s completion %. Mannion doesn’t have that option so it’s nice to hear that his completion % is still similarly high. (of course that comes against Sac State)

      • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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        Mannion throws well on designed rollouts to his right or his left, as well as being an effective pocket passer. Too small a sample to say much yet about Mannion’s ability to scramble. I’m guessing we’ll learn more this Saturday about that….

        • Orange Lantern says:
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          Mannion just had nice poise. He never seemed to get flustered and the team was working solidly as a group and doing what it took to move the chains. He was patient when he needed to be and handled situations appropriately and with repsonsibility. He was focused on sustaining drives and providing the leadership to win as a team.

    • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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      by the way, now Buker is saying Katz is getting reps with the 1’s. So it’s not exclusively Mannion anymore.

  • TheAntiAngerBeaver says:
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    Let me begin by saying, like everyone I am NOT happy with the Sac St loss or last year. 5-10 in our last 15 games is very bad (soon to be 5-11 in our last 16). Especially for a team, program, and coach who the previous four years when 10-4, 9-4, 9-4, and 8-5. And came within a W of the Rose Bowl…twice! I think Riley tried to get new life into the program with his new assitants. And our recruiting last year and so far this year have been much, much better. However, until he realizes Banker and Langsdorf’s time has come, we will struggle. IMO Riley needs to be the coach at OSU. You can throw names out there all you want, no one as good as Riley will be coming to OSU anytime soon. Look at what happened at UA in 1999. They wanted to win more and thought they could do better, so they fired Toomey, and look how that turned out. 10 years of horrible football!

    My biggest issue with many people calling for Riley’s head is they throw out Mike Leach. WTF? Really? Not even going into his moral issues… let’s compare records since 2003, when Riley returned.

    2003 8-5 8-5
    2004 8-4 7-5
    2005 9-3 5-6
    2006 8-5 10-4
    2007 9-4 9-4
    2008 11-2 9-4
    2009 8-4 8-5
    Bowl Record 4-2 5-1
    Both have been Conf. Coach of the year.

    Leach’s W/L record is 5 better then Riley. Keep in mind though 1) He coahed in the Big12 where they only played 8 conf games, thus one more ‘easy’ OOC game then OSU had. and 2) he coached in Texas. I don’t think I need to explain the huge advantage of recruiting in Texas over Oregon.

    So for all those people wanting Riley fired and Leach brought in, once again I ask WTF? You’re basically getting the same coach. Only one hasn’t been fired for the mistreatment of players. And IMO if Leach were to come to Corvallis he wouldn’t be nearly as good, because he’d have to recruit to Oregon…not Texas. Just like Riley, Leach was close to a BCS Bowl…once. He’s never taken a team to a BCS Bowl though. Leach is NOT an improvement over Riley and IMO he’d be worse in Corvallis. For people throwing out Leach, do some research first, he’s not an improvement.

    • angry angry says:
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      People want Leach because he’s more innovative and also aggressive. Riley is passive and many times it looks as if the game has passed him by. Riley with better OC/DC would be fine with me, but he definitely needs contrasting rather than complimentary personalities on this staff. If he can’t keep up with the current game and/or has lost desire (which looks to be the case at times…see Wash St and UCLA last year) then he needs to retire rather than break the OSU bank via a buyout.

      If he still has the passion, then he needs to take over play calling and hire a new DC. Nepotism (i.e. Riley himself) has been a big problem. When coaches are exchanging corporal organs the “family atmosphere” has become a little too close.

      • JackBeav says:
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        Organ donation being ancillary, I also agree with the passion statement. Perhaps last week will be the last straw for Riley when it comes to his realization that he needs to impose his will rather than delegate it.

    • JackBeav says:
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      Hmmm… Riley… Banker, Langsdorf… recruiting to Oregon vs. Texas and Mike Leach’s record vs. Riley’s….

      I agree.

    • angry angry says:
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      Also, a lot of people (myself included) are intrigued by Leach as an OC, not head coach.

  • TheAntiAngerBeaver says:
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    I don’t agree with Leach as an OC either. You’re looking at a what? 1-2 year fix and he’d be off to the first HC position he’d was offered. Plus he is all about passing. We’d be wasting Agnew, Ward, and Woods at RB. And there’d be zero chance of Tyner coming to OSU.

    I hate using Oregon as example, because well I hate Oregon. But I live in Eugene and they are our rival so we are familar with them. Bellotti and now Kelly stuck with Nick A at DC even when their entire fan base wanted his head. He has somewhat changed his system and it’s been effecitive. However Bellotti was only as good as his OC was. With Tedford they were great. Andy Lugwig, not so much. One good year with Crowton and then of course Kelly. If Riley wants to be loyal to his assitants. OK…but I think Riley needs to put the pressure on Banker to adjust his system or he’s gone. As for Langsdorf. Guy has been pretty clutch in recruiting for us in Texas/Oklahoma. Losing that would suck, but IMO he needs to be the first to go of the assistants. Riley didn’t have any issue with pulling Katz, it will be interesting to see if he will, but I’d like to see Riley go back to calling the plays 100%. And let Langsdorf be the ‘OC’ in title only and be the QB coach.

    Football pays the bills and BDC is a money guy. We don’t have a basketball program to add revenue so football is it. If we start to slide, I think you’ll see BDC put his foot down. He can’t fire Riley due to the contract, but he can refuse to extend the assitant’s contracts and force Riley to find someone new.

    ASU wanted Riley, USC wanted Riley. The guy can coach and other schools and coaches know that. Where I agree with Angry 100% is that he needs someone to play bad cop to his good cop. Someone who will be tough, and get on these guys and fire them up. I think the question we are left with is…is Riley willing to hire that person (he has Cav, so I think the answer is yes), its just a matter of what it will take to make that move.

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    Mannion jumping over Katz ….Well … GOOD! If you have to blow the gimme opener, at least see the light — make changes that will matter. Katz has had his chances. If someone now got a chance, and looked better, you go with him. I expect Katz is still getting reps because its not good to put all the eggs in one basket.

    Agree about Riley at least needing a new OC and DC. But if his loyalty is too great, get rid of him as well. This losing to weak teams, and esp in OT is on the coaches.

    • Billy says:
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      I go back to the end of the Lon Stiner years, the Beaver’s all-time winningest coach who left after the 1948 season. Even through the 28 years, we have never suffered as many humiliations as under Riley, most of them on national tv. Boise St., Louisville, Penn State, Cincinnati and 2 in the last 10 mos., Cougs and last week. Defeats are one thing but total embarrassments are much worse. Really had quite enough of it.

      • brownale9000 says:
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        Revisionist history anyone? Three of those teams we lost to ended up in BCS games. We’re not nearly good enough to make those losses ’embarrassing’.

        Boise State – presumably the 42-14 game @ Boise in 2006? The year Boise State went undefeated and beat #10 Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl?
        Cincinnati – 2007 we lost 34-3 to a 10 win Cincinnati team who finished ranked.
        Louisville – A bad loss for us, 63-27, but Louisville ended up in a BCS game.
        Penn State – crushed us and ended up 8th ranked, went to the Rose Bowl.

        Wazzu last year and Sac State this year – I’ll give you that. Those are bad, bad losses.

        But worse than the 28 year streak? Gimme a break. That’s annoying because I know you’re old enough to remember the streak. I wasn’t alive for the entirety and I can name a few games much, much more embarrassing.

        • angry angry says:
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          So your point is it’s not embarrassing to get killed, so long as the team that killed us goes to a BCS game later that year?

          • brownale9000 says:
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            I don’t think getting beaten by a good team is embarrassing. It happens. It’s football.

          • Billy says:
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            getting embarrassed by any team, no matter how good is embarrassing. We had teams that were more than good enough to play much better in all those games. In the 28 years we were supposed to lose. Your “logic” that it’s okay to get slaughtered by a BCS Bowl team is utter bullshit. You are young, hopefully you’ll learn. Huge difference between getting beat and getting humiliated. It happens too much under Riley.

          • Billy says:
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            Also, it seems it will be just fine with you if we lose big to the Badgers. Ater all, they are highly ranked. 30-40 point loss no big deal, right.

          • brownale9000 says:
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            Maybe it’s just that I played sports at a very high level, but I simply don’t get ’embarrassed’ by losing to good teams. And I don’t think that being ’embarrassed’ by another team is a good reaction for an athlete. It’s simply not how one reacts to losing to a good team. Hell, any team for that matter. You lost…move on.

            In my athletic career, I was on some very, very good teams. Sometimes we lost to teams we should have beaten, sometimes we beat some teams that probably should have killed us.

            Losing to a good team is never an embarrassment, unless your guys simply don’t show up to compete. In the examples you gave, our athletes competed, but didn’t match up on that day.

            A lot of my problem with your original post is that you’re belittling ‘the streak’. You damn well know our guys absolutely failed to show up on MANY occasions during those 28 years. Four of the six games you gave as an example were situations where our guys were over-matched.

            PS – Please lose the condescending tone.

          • JackBeav says:
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            I think we lose sight of the game aspect if we focus only on winning as a parameter for playing the game. You can still be embarrassed by a win, even if you pound the other team into oblivion. It’s a matter of playing with effort and to the best of your abilities. And when you lose to someone who simply did it better than you when you gave it your all, then there’s no room for embarrassment. It’s poor sport to consider anything but a loss with grace in that case.

            If you fail to give effort in a game, you’re disrespecting your opponent as much as you disrespect yourself. And that should cause embarrassment, not the loss itself. The loss is just a byproduct of that which is embarrassing. When you lose focus (except for a “normal” amount of mistakes) you also embarrass yourself. An example of that is when you’re winning or losing big (or just in a heated contest) and you decide to get “chippy” rather than just play your game. That’s more embarrassing than losing in any instance. But simply not showing up to play or giving up when you feel out-matched are the worst forms of embarrassment. That signifies a systemic problem rather than a temporary malaise. That’s when we call for the youth to come in and play, because we assume that they will at least have the fight in them to try to supplant the lazy sticks who for some reason were on the field before them. I would rather see second and third stringers making mistakes and being beaten by experience than I would the actual “experience” doing all the same things.

            And that’s where the QB situation takes front and center. The “experience” is supposed to instill confidence in his unit, and they are supposed to work together to execute as a unit beyond their collective talent. But when one link is broken, all links are broken. Better yet, any one unit on a team sport shouldn’t be likened to a chain with a weak link. It should be likened to a balloon. If there’s a hole in the balloon, the unit becomes less viable… to the point of non-existence. I think the worry is that we just don’t know how to replace one section of the balloon without deflating it and blowing it up again.

          • angry angry says:
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            So you don’t think there’s any difference between a 1 point loss and a 30 or 40 point loss?

            Some people think that way.

            Unfortunately for OSU, most of the country cares about the score. Close game earns respect, but blowouts get none. That is why those games were all embarrassing. I find it difficult to believe you weren’t embarrassed for the program the morning after those loses.

          • brownale9000 says:
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            Not exactly what I’m saying. I will say that a 1 point win to Sac State is only marginally less embarrassing than a 1 point loss. My ’embarrassment quotient’ is less dependent on score than results compared to expectation.

            If a top 10 team crushes you at their place, it’s not embarrassing. I full expected Penn State to destroy us in that game. I expected Louisville and Cincinnati to beat us by 3 scores. I thought we had a chance vs Boise State, but in hindsight they were a much, much better team.

            I think it’s ridiculous to compare the embarrassment level of those four road games vs top 10 teams to the losses to Wazzu last year and this debacle this year. They’re just not even in the same ballpark.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Mannion jumping over katz is potentially what we asked to see from riley; demonstrated ability over seniority. Also, I suggest Mannion’s status as a coach’s son gives him a better understanding not just of the qb position, but the GAME, thus, quicker/better decisions than Katz (in admittedly little playing time).

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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    Off Topic: What’s happened to pure orange? I haven’t been over there in a while so was surprised to see the last posted messages were on Aug. 31. Wouldn’t be surprised if you tell me that they pulled the plug in order to let the fans cool down since they don’t seem to like it when OSU fans have anything negative to say.

    • progressivebeav says:
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      Yup, it happens once or twice a year. Due to the basketball or football teams sucking.

    • JackBeav says:
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      What?

      I just went over to look, and those posts are up. But you get an internal service error when you try to click through to anything. What’s up with that?

      • brownale9000 says:
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        Yeah, that’s been the issue lately, complete inability to post anything, not lack of interest by posters.

        Their setup is pretty poor, it happens quite a bit really.

  • AfghanBeav AfghanBeav says:
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    Alright, what is the deal with Simi Kuli 2.0??? I also took classes this summer, and received my grades about 5 weeks ago…

    • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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      Maybe it’s because you weren’t taking basket weaving.
      Just kidding. OSU doesn’t offer basket weaving for the jocks do they?

      • AfghanBeav AfghanBeav says:
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        Haha! Nah I didn’t take basket weaving with him. 🙁

        On a side note, I did see Kevin Frahm, Castro Masaniai, and Scott Crichton at Uncle Ricky’s Hawaiian food today. Kevin said his knee is feeling good and will play Saturday. (no i didnt pester and ask him, the guy working behind the counter did after Kevin signed a poster for him) LOL.

        • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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          Geez I’m glad you took that the right way cuz I wasn’t implying that you’d taken basket weaving. Unfortunately there are some jocks who can’t handle anything tougher than basket weaving. And, fwiw, I’d like that to change but there’s too much money involved for that to ever happen.

          • AfghanBeav AfghanBeav says:
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            Haha yeah, I knew what you meant… It was suppose to be a 😉 face, but I must have fat fingered 🙁 and not proof read well. LOL

        • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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          How is Uncle Ricky’s compared to Local Boyz?

          • AfghanBeav AfghanBeav says:
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            I like it a lot more. Their BBQ beef and Mac salad is amazing. Their chicken is also very good.

          • AfghanBeav AfghanBeav says:
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            *are amazing.

          • JackBeav says:
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            How’s the huli huli chicken? I’ve been to several places around Eugene, and they tend to be salty. That was never my experience living in Hawai’i, either at the plate lunch shacks or at the beach in Waianae with the locals for the weekend.

            I guess I just chalk it up to the extreme Haoli taste for salt, but it’s disappointing to take that first bite and not get into it.

            I know of several places in Portland that do it up right, so I’m thinking it’s just a local thing?

          • Afghanbeav Afghanbeav says:
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            They have some chicken called shoyu chicken that is really good. Similar to huli but “shredded” insted of “chopped”

          • GoBiebs says:
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            The mac salad is nowhere near as good as LBZ but still alright. everything else is pretty good and tastes pretty similar to LBZ

          • Afghanbeav Afghanbeav says:
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            I think the Mac salad at rickys is better.

          • JackBeav says:
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            How can you get mac salad wrong? It’s just mayo, spam and pepper.

          • GoBiebs says:
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            and mac

        • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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          No pork on the menu at LBZ! Hard for me to take them seriously for that reason alone. MAC salad was very good however.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      Not to mention there was a “confident” quote from Glover about three weeks ago that it was not an issue and he would be cleared before the 1st game. Famous last words. Maybe he took the same on line courses as Roberto Nelson????

  • WFO WFO says:
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    Off-topic:

    Okie St is currently jamming it up Arizona’s ass and breaking off the handle.

    • JackBeav says:
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      21-0 at the half. UA almost got screwed on that should-be sack. When Weeden got hit, the ball clearly went backwards and out of bounds at the 40.

  • JackBeav says:
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    Fwiw, I’ve been fine with Riley as coach so long as he does some of the things we’ve all talked about for years. He is slow to change, but he does eventually do it. So I wouldn’t say everything is static if we continue to slide.

    That being said, I always thought Herm Edwards would make an excellent head coach on the NCAA level.

  • angry angry says:
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    Arizona not doing the Pac-12 any favors.

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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    I’m not wild about OK, OK State, etc. coming to the Pac. Not wild at all.

    • them beavers them beavers says:
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      just think once we become the Pac 16 and we are with the old pac 8 again we will see big game against TX TT, OU and the other, other OS ever what 8 years or so heck we maybe as good as Missippi st or some other school like Pud of the big ten hardy harr harr

  • Gman says:
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    I think Riley handled this QB situation all wrong.

  • presleydog says:
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    Those of you that caught a good part of fall camp, what did you guys make of Mannion? I got the impression following this blog that Katz was less than impressive, but it seems like it would take something special to unseat Katz. Did anyone see that in Mannion?

    Not to be a wet blanket, (you guys sounded much more hopeful than I expected) but I have to admit that I’m less than enthused about our prospects. Guys sounded flat in practice and my feeling is that if we are even going to have a chance you have to have a full buy-in that we can win this thing. The team is lacking a good leader on the feild.Simonton, Breckterfield type of guy with the fire.

    My hope is that we can make some positive improvements (like the linebackers can cover a back or TE) and we can beat UCLA.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      Riley is making it sound like it was obvious something special was happening with Mannion all camp, but I don’t remember quite the level of enthusiasm Riley is showing now. Who knows, maybe Katz was Langsdork’s guy and he had Riley convinced for awhile.

      Being kind of grumpy because of the loss, I thought Katz deserved some “punishment” for that completely uninspired performance (and yes it was not all his fault). If you can’t come out fired up for the season opener as the starting QB of a D-1 team, I don’t know what it is going to take to show some emotion. I think there is something going on with Katz and his relationship with his teammates and we don’t know the whole story or understand the dynamics.

      That being said, we do have to remember that Mannion’s performance was against inferior opposition who were clearly wearing down. I kind of suspect that Riley knows tomorrow is almost a certain defeat (possible blow out at that) and one of the big things he can get out of this game is a “final exam” for the QB’s. I don’t buy all of this package stuff as they are similar in style. He should just play them about equal and make a decision.

      • oneoldbeav says:
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        “we don’t know the whole story or understand the dynamics.” So true, and none of the pros who follow the team will delve into this area. They’d rather talk about themselves and their colleagues, travel plans, and eating/drinking habits.

        Last year I guessed the poor team chemistry had something to do with Quizz, this year maybe Katz; maybe neither is at the root of the problem. One constant is most of the coaching staff. I hope they sort this out, soon.

        Oh yeah, FREE THE DB 4 !!

  • T-Beav says:
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    What happens if Katz comes out and lights it up, if he is the starter? (I know a long shot..right) Say we are up 2 scores going into the locker room at half time. Does MR pull Katz and put in Mannion because “they intended on playing both QB’s”?

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      If Katz lights it up, Katz will keep playing. Riley will stay with the hot hand (as Riley has said in interviews). That’s why it makes perfect sense to start Katz. But if Katz falters, expect to see Mannion sooner rather than later….

  • StarcraftSquall says:
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    There is some upside to turning this into the Pac-16: we would get the West Coast back, including the annual trip to LA. Do the math: there would be two 8-team divisions, most likely the old Pac-8, and everyone else in the other division. Since we play 9 conference games there is only two crossovers, so if we just make a gurantee to play one team from each block of 4 each year (one road, one away) (the 4 blocks being the Northwest schools, the California schools, the mountain time zone schools, and the plains schools), we get a presence in each region of the country plus those new upstarts get put back in their place. AND we get more revenue for it. Northwest schools like us should be pulling like heck for this to happen.

  • OSUBABY OSUBABY says:
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    Free the 4 DB’s of the “holding back the defense movement” The cynical Dictator Gen. Banker he been holding them captive without proper technique and freedom to be a DB.

    Signed ,

    Hans Look For The Ball Gruber

  • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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    Regarding the DB’s and the “don’t turn your head” guarding being taught in practice, did Dockery employ this technique last year? I don’t remember him having a problem with it and he was actually able to pick off a few passes. Hardin on the other hand, would have the entire stadium shouting at him to turn his head. 40K+ fans could see a potential INT coming his way but he wouldn’t turn his head. So frustrating. Sounds like the DB’s vs. Sac State did the same thing. How come it wasn’t a problem with Dockery? Was he defiant and sticking to his own technique?

    • helmsley says:
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      someone with patience might be able to dig it out – I think I recall a writeup after he made an interception when he commented to the effect he was doing his own thing – not in so many words but the general idea.

  • UofDuck says:
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    Good luck Beavos

    • WFO WFO says:
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      They’re gonna need it.

    • OSUBABY OSUBABY says:
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      The ducks should have no problem with the Pistol Offense. Wondering if The Wolf Pack D will have an easier time defending the duck’s offense?

  • AfghanBeav AfghanBeav says:
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    We need a new post angry. I am finding it difficult to dig through 200+ comments to find the new ones 😉

    • JD says:
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      I concur.

    • angry angry says:
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      Okay, but if you subscribe to comments you should get all new ones via email. I set it up like that to help navigate congested topics.

  • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    Ok we’re checked into our motel and waiting for a cab to take us to The Old Fashioned to meet our tailgate host. We’re fully beavered up and heading into enemy territory.

  • RealisticGuru says:
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    Okay, get real Beaver fans, there isn’t a chance in hell OSU will win this weekend. 52 – 10 at best, Wisconsin’s defense is highly underrated and it will show this weekend when the line both lines are going backwards. Good luck, but forget it.

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