06.Sep.2011 QB Situation

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It's being reported (rumored?) that Mannion will be the starter.

I think Riley is handling this QB situation poorly. The players and coaches have a game to prepare for, now they have to deal with distractions and media/questions.

It reeks of desperation.

It also was a waste of time and/or poor talent evaluation during fall camp. If Mannion was the best QB, he should have been practicing with the 1s for the past month.

If true, this is somewhat shocking.

I agree Mannion looked better on Saturday, but people thought Sean Canfield looked better than Matt Moore at one point, too. Then as Canfield played more he showed weaknesses. There is a huge difference between relieving for an ineffective QB and starting the game with the expectation you have to win it (or at least manage it). Mentally, Mannion is in a totally different situation this week, and on the road rather than at home. Unless the kid is a prodigy, this is going to be rough.

The smart play is to start Katz and have him on a short leash, just like last week. It avoids the media circus and would also take pressure off Mannion if or when he is needed.

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  • ChrisW12 says:
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    I typically agree with everything you say angry, but on this topic I think you are wrong. I think he is handling the qb situation the correct way. Look Mannion far outplayed Katz. Katz has had opportunity and he has never fully seized it. You go to Wisconsin knnowing both will play and if one is playing better keep them in the game. If Mannion outplays Katz it’s his job from here on out no question. If Katz out plays Mannion than take a look at film after this weeks game and determine who is the better qb for this team.

    • angry angry says:
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      That is fine to disagree, but can you just tell me why you are comfortable with Mannion if he does start?

      I don’t see a good reason because one half of football (@home versus an FCS team) is not a large enough sample for me. He also mostly handed the ball off. People are anointing Mannion based on that performance, and I cannot understand it.

      Also, what is the downside in starting Katz and then going to Mannion if needed? Explain that as well.

      • locusimperium says:
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        yeah, how many throws did he have? 6-8?

        • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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          He threw 12 passes and really only misfired once with two spikes and a dropped pass.

  • ChrisW12 says:
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    Mannion showed more poise and leadership in that one half than Katz has all last year. Every throw Katz makes looks difficult and lucky if its completed. Mannion on the other hand, his passes are on target calm and he makes it look easy.

  • ChrisW12 says:
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    My buddy and I went to 3 practices and all I saw from Katz was the same thing as last year hard throws, no touch. My buddy and I were both much more impressed with the abilities of Vaz and Mannion truthfully.

  • ean says:
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    I can see your point. If you are planning on playing both then start Katz. Thing is I would prefer we just go with Mannion. It is Katz’s 4th year in the system and he is a junior. He is having issues grasping simple concepts still. Time to go with the youth IMO.

  • angry angry says:
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    Okay, what happens if Mannion tanks @ Wisconsin?

    Where do things stand then? Go back to Katz? Give up on this year and call it a youth movement? I need to know the plan if Mannion stinks, too.

    People are speculating Riley wants the heat off him, and that’s why he’s going with the youth–it’s a built in excuse…

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      What’s the plan if both Katz and Mannion play badly at Wisconsin? The QB competition continues until Katz or Mannion proves himself the better QB. I think Mannion is likely to win the job this Saturday at Wisconsin. If not, Mannion will get another chance at Reser against UCLA. Etc.

  • Kragbutt says:
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    Nine times out of 10, I would keep Katz as the starter for the reasons you stated, but let’s face it – we are not going anywhere this year (or next). Mannion is eventually going to end up playing anyway, so let’s just get this over with. He can learn on the job with all the other freshmen and Katz with his 100 MPH fastball can go out for baseball.

    PS Bring me the head of the 2008 & 2009 Recruiting Coordinator!

  • ChrisW12 says:
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    If Mannion tanks and Katz plays better than we got the bye week to sort things out. If Mannion tanks and Katz tanks than you got the bye week to figure it out. This game will decide who is going to be the starter for the rest of the season I would guess. No better way than say go win the job if you ask me. I prefer that than say Katz started last year so he has to stay in.

  • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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    @Angry: “The smart play is to start Katz and have him on a short leash, just like last week. It avoids the media circus and would also take pressure off Mannion if or when he is needed.”

    I agree with this (as discussed in prior posts). If I were Riley, I would start Katz, and give him a fair chance (at least the first quarter, and perhaps the first half, even if Katz plays badly). But if Katz blows it, Mannion should get another shot. If Mannion grabs the opportunity and plays well, Mannion becomes #1 for the next game. More or less, that’s what I expect to happen this Saturday….

    • beavers4life says:
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      My question is this…What was the score at halftime between Sac St. vs. OSU? 14-3!! So Sac St. scored 2 TD’s in the first half while Katz lead us to ONE field goal! That’s not good! We outscored Sac St. 18-7 in the second half! Mannion lead us on a comeback whereas Katz left us sputtering, dazed, confused, and befuddled with his ability, or lack there of, in his QB skills. Why would we start a QB that doesn’t have the right amount of reps to be able to come close to meshing with the offensive unit. The Offensive players go off of what the QB is feeling. It was clear with Katz that the offense was tense, nervous, unsure of themselves, and didn’t have the confidence.

      When Mannion came into the game, it was the complete opposite! The offense meshed, came together, played with confidence/heart! It took a full quarter to just UNDO what Katz did in the first half! If we keep Katz in as our starting QB, we won’t have a chance to give our offense time to get better as a whole with an ill prepared QB like Mannion is. How can we have quality reps with our offense going 3 and out or throwing interceptions?!

      Katz’s first drive he threw an ill advised pass and gave up an INT! 7 plays 23 yards, 02:18 OSU INT
      Second drive: 11 plays 44 yards, 04:24 OSU PUNT
      Third drive: 10 plays 52 yards, 04:16 OSU FG
      Fourth drive: 3 plays 1 yards, 00:00 OSU PUNT(Agnew rushes 5 yards, Katz sacked for -5 yards)
      Fifth drive: 3 plays 8 yards, 00:00 OSU PUNT
      Sixth drive: 3 plays 7 yards, 00:41 Halftime

      Mannion
      First Drive: 9 plays 43 yards, 04:04 OSU FG
      Second Drive: 3 plays 8 yards, 01:19 OSU PUNT
      Third Drive: 11 plays 62 yards, 05:19 OSU TD
      Fourth Drive: 3 plays 70 yards, 00:56 OSU TD
      Fifth Drive: 3 plays 50 yards, 00:00 OSU FUMB(Agnew Fumble)
      Sixth Drive: 14 plays 78 yards 2:35 OSU Missed Field Goal

      As you can clearly see, 3 punts in the first half vs. one punt in the second half,

    • orangejulius orangejulius says:
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      What happens, though, if the Beavs start Katz and get so far behind that a comeback is impossible?

      When exactly do you decide to go with Mannion? Based on minutes, quarters, plays, score?

      Katz always seems jumpy, has poor touch, can’t hit a long pass consistently, and let’s face it, the offense has not performed under his control.

  • brownale9000 says:
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    As of right now, your complaints are unwarranted.

    PNBuker: Riley said it’s best for team right now if he plays both quarterbacks. But as of Tuesday, “Ryan’s the startting QB”

    As for the statement: It also was a waste of time and/or poor talent evaluation during fall camp. If Mannion was the best QB, he should have been practicing with the 1s for the past month.

    I agree…to a certain extent. But if Mannion was dead-even with Katz and his performance IN the game has vaulted him ahead, so be it. And it’s the right decision both times.

  • OStateBro says:
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    Totally agree with Angry here. It’s a logical post written by someone with a cool head. There is no basis for a qb switch right now. 30 mins of football against Sac St. is no basis at all. There should be no doubt in the locker room that Katz is the starter. It creates doubt and controversy and it’s bad for confidence.

    Like Angry said, unless Mannion is Luck 2.0, he is destined for a poor, confidence shattering, performance on Saturday. Compare the scenarios – 1st game = Reser, No Expectations, 1-AA opponent – 2nd game = Camp Randall, 80,000 fans, QB Controversy, Fan expectations, WISCONSIN.

    What’s most concerning is Riley’s attitude about this game. His goal should be W. Somehow. Regardless of the opponent, he should always be focused on a W. The way he is presenting this QB situation completely contradicts that objective. Seems to me, reading between the lines, he is using this game to test out his QBs like it’s a scrimmage. In other words, he’s chalking this one up to a loss so might as well play QB roulette and see who plays better. This is the Riley attitude that has permeated this team/program and doomed us to 5-7 win seasons.

    • brownale9000 says:
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      I don’t understand the thinking that Riley is somehow fostering a QB controversy.

      He said they had planned all along to get Mannion some reps in the Sac State game. Mannion happened to play better than Katz in that game and everybody freaks out and proclaims there’s a QB controversy, so they start asking Riley about it and he says ‘Katz is the starter, but Mannion has earned some reps.’

      To me, that’s people seeing tootsie rolls.

      ‘We’re blindly going to go with Katz no matter what happens.’ Is that a better response?

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      “[Mannion] is destined for a poor, confidence shattering, performance on Saturday.”

      I believe (and hope) that you are wrong about that. Although he’s only a redshirt freshman, Mannion appears to be a cool customer. Sure, Mannion put up his numbers on Saturday against little Sac State, and its middling FCS defense. Still, they were very good numbers! Officially, Mannion was 8 for 12 passing. But that includes two spikes to stop the clock. So Mannion was really 8/10. One of those passes was dropped. Mannion’s only bad pass was his first one. Quite a performance for a redshirt freshman QB playing in his first game.

      Yes, Wisconsin’s defense is better than Sac State’s defense. But having watching Wisconsin on TV last week, I don’t think Wisconsin’s defense is awesome, or close to awesome. UNLV completed 18 of 27 passes against Wisconsin, with no interceptions. UNLV accumulated about 150 yards rushing and 150 yards passing. UNLV got 19 first downs (against 20 for Wisconsin). It was Wisconsin’s offense that looked great — Wisconsin’s defense looked average, at least to me.

      If this is correct, Mannion does not need to be “Luck 2.0” to move the ball against Wisconsin. Personally, I wouldn’t be afraid to put Mannion in against Wisconsin’s defense. Riley appears to feel the same way.

  • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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    Mannion came on real strong in the last two or three weeks leading up to the Sac St game, what I wanna know is in the final two weeks leading up to the game who looked better Mannion or Katz?

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      As I reported on this blog after attending practices on most of those days, Mannion looked better than Katz (while Vaz faded to a distant third).

      • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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        I thought so. So, if Mannion looked better in camp than Katz did, it would appear the better QB is not starting. I would like to see Mannion starting and Katz being ready to come in. If Mannion struggles you have Katz ready to go and wanting to prove himself to win the job back and if Mannion does well the Beavers could really have something with him.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Damn, Agnew pulled hamstring today…not good. He had problems with them as a HS senior.

  • ean says:
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    they should just run a bunch of read options for Katz. Make him run the ball a ton.

  • JackBeav says:
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    They’re going to platoon with Katz as the starter, and I’m ok with that. I think it gives Katz a chance to do something, and it takes any pressure off Mannion as a potential starter. But built into this is the announcement that the two QB’s will be running different packages. Riley has done something that I don’t recall him ever doing before. I don’t recall him making in-game adjustments… ever. And now he’s built an automatic adjustment into his scheme.

    Wisconsin has to be a little weirded out that they have tape on and can plan for the starter, but they have nothing on the other QB. I know their going to go at it as if the offense will be predictably similar to what they do. But they have no reads on Mannion’s tendencies. He can poke holes in Wisconsin’s defense, and Katz can return and do his damage. Or Katz can start off hot and storm to a big first half lead as he’s done in the past, and Mannion can keep that intensity up in the second half (where our offense faltered due to our opponents’ defensive adjustments).

    Maybe it was unfair to get after Katz so soon. Do we know of any games when he didn’t have one poor half? In many of them he also shined in the other half. So maybe this is just going to take some wandering in the dark until we find a light switch.

    • ean says:
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      I think some read option is in order too. They have had it in the play book for over a year and have even ran it a few times. Now that we are not too worried about Katz getting shaken up you might as well use his feet as a weapon.

  • Orange Lantern says:
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    I respect your opinion but disagree with you here Angry. I believe there is more to be gained by Mannion getting the experience. As long as he handles it fairly well he can get the full game and learn a ton from it. Then with the by week and the experience of Randall Stadium he will be fully prepared for PAC play and doe evn better. Katz has has plenty of chances last year and the first game and he has been consistently very inconsistent. I don’t think Riley expects Katz to all of a sudden play poised and lead the team on sustained drives that keep the Wisconsin field off the field for as long as possible.

    To me this game is way more interesting to watch with Mannion starting and it could help form a btter opinion of Oregon State from national viewers. Everyone has already seen the typical Katz mistakes against Boise St ,TCU and Oregon. It does not matter if he has a strong arm. What matters is accurcay and moving the chains, keeping the offense on the field and scoring on drives. Mannion has shown he is a better leader already and takes responsibility if a drive stalls. Katz has the attitude that ” Hey may 3rd down pass was in the vicinity, not bad” when it actually is fatal and guaranteeing defeat, especially since our pass defense is non-effective. If we wait for Katz to stall twice it will be too late to win the game.

    Mannion is our best chance and already brings better odds to win to the Beavs. The fact that we could have him for a full 4 years as an effective QB is exciting. Katz does not have the right mental makeup. Mannion keeps the poise, makes better decisions and gets the team to play as a proper team. You need those leadership skills at QB.

    • angry angry says:
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      It’s okay to disagree. Plus, we don’t entirely disagree—I am not a Katz fan. I think we just disagree on how to go about the transition…

  • angry angry says:
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    Great media interview today.

    Riley says Katz is the starter, but then goes on to explain how Ryan has to deal with the situation etc. Reading between the lines, sounds like Mannion is their guy.

    He also called out Banker indirectly, blaming the pass coverage on “technical issues” (i.e. players misaligned) and says it’s the coaches job to fix that.

    Also said the team is getting up early.

    Riley was no BS/beating around the bush. Good to hear.

    • JackBeav says:
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      And he was just so damn nice while spinning like stories at the same time. Aw shucks!

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      That’s good to hear. I mean, this was an unprecedented Riley era loss. He should be pissed at someone.

  • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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    Are we foolish to think that Mannion has the ability to handle all this as a redshirt freshman?

    Almost a year ago, towards the end of Mannion’s first OSU Fall camp, Riley said this about Mannion:

    “He’s got the best knowledge that we’ve ever seen for a rookie quarterback….The best. ”

    Mannion also had a truly spectacular high school career. In a playoff game in his senior year of high school, Mannion set a Northern California prep record with 581 yards passing and five touchdowns. Coming out of high school, Mannion was rated the 14th-best pro-style quarterback in the nation by Rivals.com.

    In other words, Mannion has already shown indications that he may be a special talent. Mannion’s performance against Sac State provided further evidence of that. A lot of people — including Riley and the OSU coaches — are now keen to see how Mannion can do against Wisconsin. Me, too…..

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Don’t forget, his dad is a coach. I think that has a lot to do with him doing the “little” things right that we’d hoped to see from Katz. I posit dad is helping him prep for this saturday in a positive, additive manner, not trying to usurp OSU coaches, but reminding his son of what made him successful and how to keep Sean’sactions and decisions in the context of his son’s biggest game ever.

  • matt b says:
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    Katz had a decent to good year last year as a first year starter for a team that did not protect very well. He missed all of spring ball with an injury. He deseves another chance, but unfortunately he will have to be on a short leash based on results of Sac State. If you do not give him another chance you risk losing the confidnce of all team members who will know that one mistake will lead to permanent exile. Mannion may ultimately be better. No one really kows yet. The coaching staff have pencilled themselves into a corner. But to dump Katz now is to risk mutiny and losing to Wisconsin is far better than losing respect of the troops….a real “Barabas” move to appease a fickle audience.

    • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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      Katz had a decent to good year last year…………when James Rodgers was playing. When he went down Katz’s shortcomings were exposed. You can’t all his struggles on the offensive line. He held the ball and took sacks and he stared down one receiver. He wouldn’t check down to Quizz when he was open. I thought with work in fall camp this would improve bit by bit but it actually looked worse in his first game this year. He has been on a steady decline since JR went down. QB’s under Riley have shown a gradual improvement but Katz has gotten worse.

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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    “… Agnew pulled hamstring today…”

    Does this mean there’s no running game for OSU? If so what does Riley do now?

  • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    Subscribing

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    It would be interesting to know if Riley and company realize that Mannion is far more talented than Katz and has developed much quicker than anticipated. Notre Dame is kind of going through the same thing with their two QB’s though Frees proved himself last year by winning four straight games. I was listening to a radio show where Kelly is already on the hot seat for wasting time on Crist in the fall when it was clear to everyone that Frees was better. Loyalty can backfire.

    • michaelm says:
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      I think that is the case. I’m reading between the lines that in the minds of the coaching staff, Mannion, not Katz, is the QB of the future and quite possibly better suited for this offense right now. Riley did mention something to the effect that the staff had been discussing this behind closed doors for some time.

      • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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        I’m guessing Riley saw Mannion outplay Katz in camp the last couple weeks but didn’t wanna risk splitting up his team if he decided late in camp to go with Mannion when everyone thought for months that Katz was the unquestioned “Guy” and was expected to be the starter all year when healthy. Can you imagine what the Beaver writers would have said if Mannion was named the starter at the end of fall camp?

  • matt b says:
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    Life or sports without the possibility of redemption is pointless. Aaron Rodgers was thrown out with the garbage a couple of times. Joe Montana at Notre Dame was benched a number of times. Loyalty can backfire. But the very best of life and sports is when someone has a second chance and is able to persevere. Ultimately we want this OSU staff to teach these young guys to be our next generation of leaders. We want these kids to fight thru tough opponents, thru all the noise and second guessing. We need them to battle fiercely to the very end.

  • Gman says:
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    Mannion for presid.. errrrr QB!

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    Damn … I just got back from 4 days in a wilderness to find we blew the gimme opener … Well, at least we arent highly ranked….lol.

    I say to hell with Katz … go with Mannion. We likely lose to Wisconsin anyway…. Main thing is get ready for the conference play. A good conference record can pull the season out of the fire.

    • angry angry says:
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      Dude, that had to be a heart-sinking moment…I can’t imagine coming home, expecting to see the win, but seeing that box score.

    • GreatWhiteHunter says:
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      So….did you get one?

      • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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        No…. that was depressing too, but is the way it goes sometimes. But losing IN OVERTIME…..put Riley on a suicide watch….

        No, wait…. let him go ahead with it.

  • angry angry says:
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    Riley’s quote, which I think is aimed at Banker:

    “There was a lot of technical stuff that went wrong,’’ Riley said about OSU’s 29-28 overtime loss to Sacramento State on Saturday. “We were misaligned, played in poor position, got ourselves in bad position, didn’t play the ball well and technically, we were not sound.

    “I think that’s our job to help our players get lined up correctly, play the right technique. Then it’s their job to execute it on the field, so we all go back to work on that. That’s the biggest issue.’’

    • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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      Riley’s quote, if not aimed at Banker should be aimed at Banker. The only problem is, at least with respect to the DB’s face guarding the receivers, the damned message should have went out YEARS ago.

      • angry angry says:
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        Not only that, but doesn’t Riley see the DBs doing that face guarding technique in practice? He acts like Saturday’s game was the first time he’s seen it.

        • JackBeav says:
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          That technique is legit if the play is downfield and in rhythm. But even then they should turn their heads at the last moment to let the refs justify any hand-fighting or incidental contact. We all know from years of watching football that if you don’t turn your head, you’re not making a legit play on the ball. If you’re not playing the ball, ANY contact WILL be flagged.

          It’s the underthrows and ducks that kill me. Time and again our DB’s don’t read the underthrow, and they concentrate on raising their arms instead of stopping and turning around to pick it. And we can’t blame the d-line for the DB’s poor play last week. Most of those underthrows and ducks were because our DE’s were getting to the QB as he was releasing it or because they were right in his face.

    • oneoldbeav says:
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      I’ll have to wait till Saturday to be convinced that Riley has seen the light on the faceguarding thing. His quote could only mean he thinks the technique wasn’t properly executed.

      Good to see him taking a more “we” approach in this quote and some of Eggers stuff in the Trib.

  • angry angry says:
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    It’s weird. When after the fall scrimmage I wrote that I felt Katz wasn’t progressing, many people here defended him. Now I feel like everyone loves Mannion, and nobody is defending Katz. I know some guys (like SS) have preferred Mannion all along–kudos for consistency.

    Just seems odd how many anti-Katz guys there are now.

    • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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      I’ve been talking up Mannion since he committed. I wasn’t able to see practice so I didn’t think Mannion would have already passed Katz by but that definitely appears to be the case. I always felt Mannion would be a big time QB, me have had some disagreements on Mannion, angry lol but I felt he would be big time, just didn’t think he would progress enough to even be in the discussion of being the starting QB just a game old into his RS FR year. QB’s under Riley don’t progress this quickly. I felt next year Mannion would be capable of being the starter and being a damn good one.

      I felt Katz would improve in fall camp and we would have seen some improvements in the first game but it looked worse. Mannion looked like the superior QB. It was just a half but i saw signs of a mature QB. I think he checked at the line a couple times to get the team into a better play, I’ve never seen Katz check into another play. People can criticize the play calling but Katz is in his second year starting, he should know how to check at the line. He should be able to also to correct the pass protection. Mannion just seemed to do all the things we should have expected out of Katz.

      Can anyone remember a time a RS FR has led a comeback in a game in which he came off the bench under Riley since Smith? Canfield never really had any moments where he looked good. I remember when he came in during the Washington game and his first pass was an interception.

      Mannion is just at a level for a RS Freshman QB that hasn’t been seen under Riley. SS has stated that in camp Mannion outplayed Katz and he outplayed him on Saturday. Isn’t it Riley’s job to start the best players? I’m guessing Riley probably saw this coming leading up until the game but didn’t think his team would risk going 0-2.

      Riley does have a tough job. Replacing the RS JR who started the previous year and figured to start all this season with the RS FR is never easy but I think it is more than necessary. With Mannion being the better QB I just think he should be the permanent starter, as he gives them the best chance to win games. Riley probably knows Katz will struggle but it will be easier to replace Katz with Mannion if Katz looks bad two weeks in a row and Mannion again looks like the superior QB.

    • GoBiebs says:
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      you have to see it to believe it.

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      @Angry: ” I know some guys (like SS) have preferred Mannion all along–kudos for consistency.”

      To be honest, I didn’t prefer Mannion going into Fall camp. Not at all. On the contrary, I expected Katz to step up and have a big year. Based on what I had seen last season in the few practices I attended, I assumed Mannion would still be a work in progress this year as a redshirt freshman QB in Riley’s complex offensive system.

      Watching passing drills in this year’s Fall camp — closeup at Prothro Field — changed my opinion. I was surprised to see Katz lock on his primary receiver play after play, and stay locked on that receiver too long if the receiver was covered. Katz then seemed to have trouble locating his secondary target. Running short on time, Katz would often throw ill-advised passes to that secondary receiver, whether or not the coverage was favorable. The problem became most acute during red zone drills, where both time and space are compressed, and quick, accurate decision-making is at a premium. Day after day, Katz underperformed in these drills, making the same mistakes. It was scary, and very disappointing.

      Mannion, on the other hand, from the start of Fall camp, seemed to be able to scan the field, and to find secondary and tertiary targets quickly during drills. Mannion was particularly impressive in red zone drills, where he demonstrated a knack for finding an open man in the chaos, and delivering a catchable ball. Mannion also was impressive on rollouts (to either side) where he seemed better than Katz at scanning the field and finding an open receiver while on the move. Sure, Mannion still looked gangly and awkward on some plays early in camp, but less so as camp progressed.

      By the end of camp, the choice seemed clear. Katz had serious flaws, and those flaws were probably not going to be fixed this season (or perhaps ever). Mannion, while still a work in progress, was already a more effective QB than Katz in many situations. And Mannion was improving each week, giving him significant upside potential.

      Watching the Sac State game in person at Reser, all of this was confirmed. But last week also showed that Mannion may be “a gamer” — a guy who rises to the occasion and plays better in games than he does in practices. That was exciting, and made me even more bullish about Mannion’s upside. Apparently Riley and the coaching staff feel that way, too…..

    • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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      “… I wrote that I felt Katz wasn’t progressing…”

      Langsdorf is the QBs coach. Does this tell us anything? Seems to me it does. Either Katz is an idiot, which I don’t believe, or he’s not getting good coaching.

    • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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      I expected Katz to be better in games, just with the experience under his belt. But to eff up against an opponent like Sac State doesnt cut it. You cant perform there, I dont care if you rise up once in a while — go sit! Get Mannion in there, even if he isnt consistent. He is now the wave of the future.

  • SalemBeav says:
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    Katz looked really good through Arizona last year ( Rogers Departure ). But since has been lacking in all aspects. The line had their problems, but does a one dimensional offense with a predictable and tentative QB, give the defense the advantage to rush the line “balls to the wall”? Did Mannion’s better confidence play into a more reserved defense and better blocking?
    If Katz gets demoted it won’t be for 1/2 of a game, it will be for every game since Arizona last year.

  • sparkyd73 says:
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    OK, I’ve now cooled off enough to be able to read and post about my beloved Beavers again. My thoughts on the Beavers after week one and going to Wisconsin.

    1. The play calling in the first half was poor. Agnew was used very sparingly and Katz took way to long to make his reads and was doing a poor job of it. When you actually look at the attempts to yards for Agnew in the first half, they weren’t bad and we could have extended some drives just by pounding it in.

    2. The kicking game was quite good (obviously minus the blown FG at the end). Hekker was close to perfect. He had multiple opportunities in that first half. He tried multiple types of kicks and all of them were effective. Romaine certainly showed he has a tremendous leg, the 45 yarder was easily good for another 10+. His kickoffs were strong and high.

    3. Crighton and Wynn are beasts and should be on the field. Our LB are much improved from last year in their speed, not impressed by their coverage. Our secondary was poor (I know that is an obvious statement).

    4. QB controversy is just a part of life. There was no way, even if Mannion was significantly better the last few weeks of camp, that you displace your last year’s starting QB because of practice. I think Riley actually implied that Mannion had been the better QB in practice by saying that the internal plan was always to get him reps in the game. I don’t think it matters who Riley starts in the WI game because I think that they will employ the 2 QB rotation either way, so the starter is not in there to win or lose the job. Both QBs will get their chance to win the job. I would be surprised if we don’t open the PAC 12 with a starter.

    5. I think it is time for Riley to take back play calling duties. Langsdorf should be replaced after this year. It is time to change things up. Maybe Brennan is the guy and we just need a new WR coach or maybe we need a big shakeup, but Langsdorf has run his course.

    6. Angry, I don’t always agree with your opinions, but you do run a great site with a bunch of people that do a great job representing the opinions of the fans. I tried to read a bit of the Beaver Byte and just couldn’t even get through the first post. Starting a discussion is not an easy thing, you need to be provacative enough to get people to weigh in but not so bullyish that there is no room for dissenting opinions. Thanks for the outlet.

    This has been therapeutic.

    • JackBeav says:
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      1. yes and no… Katz can read the D and call whatever he wants under center. He didn’t do it. And I don’t believe for a second that every single pass play that was called was designed to be primarily horizontal. That was where Katz decided to go after his pre-snap reads. Instead of calling a run play, he played into the D’s scheme. Still, I don’t know why we follow a five yard first down run with a pass call at all. While that was on the coaches for the call, it was also on Katz for not taking the initiative.

      2. Yes, Hekker was surprisingly good. More please. And Romaine was impressive except for the flub and the one squib kick. I like touchbacks and long FG’s.

      3. Yes on the DE’s. The OLB’s were pretty spectacular except they needed to be outside a little quicker, but that was normal for a first game, full speed adjustment to be made after game one. They will be there all season. The DE’s were the same, but they at least pushed the play to the outside where even late OLB’s pushed it further out and the S was in support. If not for CB’s giving up 10 yards on every snap, their offense would have been shut down. The MLB’s need to spy the QB instead of turning their backs on the play. Too often they could have sniffed the ball as it flew past their heads.

      4. It is what it is. Hopefully one or the other steps up big time. The problem (correct me if I’m wrong) with Katz is that he has yet to put one complete game together. He has a good half and maybe a drive after that, but he disappears for whole quarters and halves. USC was maybe his most consistent (good) game last year, and even then he disappeared for the first and third quarters.

      5. Yes. I’m fine with Langsdorf as the OC, but the play-calling is a Mike Riley job. Unless he gets another OC who he trusts to call every down without his ok, then why bother with the middle-man?

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      Agreed on all points. Spot on….

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