Riley on paying players:
Riley
I do have some thoughts. Really, I’m just interested in what that will all mean someday. I know we’re in for some big changes through the years. I just don’t know what that all means right now.
You can sense the apprehension in his words. He knows this would be the end of the sport, officially (it died unofficially several years ago via ESPN/SEC).
And a player’s perspective:
Running back Terron Ward
This is a job. We put in a lot more hours than a lot of teachers do. I feel like yeah, we shouldn’t be paid like professional athletes, but the scholarships that we have now, we’re barely eating off that. So yeah, I’d say getting paid more than what we are right now would be very, very nice and very, very helpful for people that don’t have outside help. You know, people that don’t have money coming in from their parents or other supporters. So I think that’d be very, very good.
Most people have to pay for their own college (including room and board and food), so for players to be crying about not having enough money for food the last few days each month doesn’t sit well with me. They also get to be the big men on campus while possibly earning a shot at the NFL. Yet, we are supposed to feel bad they have to dip into private money for a few meals? After all fringe benefits, they have ~ a 50k per year standard of living, while the average non-scholarship student is losing close to that.
Terron Ward’s view is short-sighted and selfish. It would be good for him for a few years, but bad for fans of Oregon State. Since scholarships are booster funded,there will simply be an arms race from the big donors at the big schools, but once that process peeks and players are still crying that they don’t receive enough, then private money will come in from NFL teams.
Anyway, I encourage college football to go down this path. It will blow up the sport for good. Better to burn out than fade away, and right now it’s a slow fade. I expect that NCAA football will become minor league baseball mixed with the corruption of boxing. I think Riley suspects this, too. One thing he does understand is the game is under attack. It’s why he was lukewarm about expansion. With the money comes added problems, as every middleman in America suddenly wants his cut.
Regarding the complaint that players have to dip into private money to buy their own food, I actually side with the players. When I was in college, I had to pay for my own food our of my own pocket, but I was also able to be employed in a part time campus job which paid me enough to cover my food expenses. The athletes aren’t able to take a job that pays while also fulfilling the duties needed for their sports, so that money has to exist through other sources (parents/family, savings, etc.) If their family can’t send them money and they don’t have any savings (like many college kids), they’re out of luck. Not every player falls into this category obviously, but some do.
A little off topic, but I was listening to Colin Coherd interview ESPN NBA analyst Tom Penn this morning. Penn talked a little about paying players, and talked about the new NCAA Final 4 in football, and how they plan to have this event rival the Super Bowl in size and revenues. He also said the Final 4 in basketball is better attended than the NBA finals. College sports are starting to get bigger than pro sports. The bigger they get, the more the complaints of players not being paid will get too.
Can’t they get a job during the off-season and save? I played sports year-round and had to do that. Yeah it was hard but life is hard. Maybe their argument should be to place them in part-time campus jobs during the off-season. That I could get behind.
Sure, but you also weren’t obligated to train during the off season. That does take time, and the time left to find a job that fits your school/training schedule is limited. I was friends with a member of the basketball team back when I was at OSU. He had a summer job through his family business as a mover. Worked out well for him since the schedule was flexible, and it kept him physically fit, but not everybody has opportunities like that available to them.
Plus, the savings you can build in the types of jobs that college kids can get isn’t enough to rely on through the rest of the year.
The rule that gets me is that these kids can’t even take money for an autograph. If somebody wants to pay them to sign a football, why should they lose their eligibility?
That is the direction things are headed. It is going to be bizarre when there are college players on campus who are multimillionaires. It’s the old be careful what you wish for…
But back to your other point, yes training takes time, but lifting takes maybe a few hours per day. That leaves like 12hrs to do other things. These players have weak majors and lenient professors, so there isn’t a lot of studying required. Even if they use 6hrs to study it leaves another 6hrs or so to work. They find time to party, play video games, tweet, etc. Yet they can’t find time to work 4hrs a day to pay for some food? And to whine about it after all the benefits they get.
I think you overstate the “training” aspect for players. Sure, they put a lot of time into their craft. But so do a lot of students who don’t play. I spent several hours per week playing hoops just because I loved playing hoops. So do the players. And on top of that I spent several hours conditioning because it’s just a life habit. I didn’t spend any time watching film, so there is that.
I also didn’t have the 20 hours of practice, but I did have on average 30-35 hours of work at three part time jobs over my four years. My class load wasn’t as heavy as angry’s, so that’s probably why I still ended up $3k in the hole after college. So I still spent 10% of my first year’s income after graduation on paying for school. I consider myself pretty lucky. My wife went through school in five years with a full time job, and she ended up with $15k in debt. Obviously, quality of life during school meant more to her than it did to me.
I survived on oatmeal, ramen and whatever from the can food outlet. I was too tired and poor to be caught at a bar past midnight (unlike some of these poor poor athletes apparently). A party for me and my friends meant we had to collect enough money to go down to Old World Deli and talk Dave into giving us a discount and no deposit on a keg. I had two pairs of shoes and one pair of boots… and a bike… and no gaming system to play on my 19″ second hand TV without cable. I also had a second hand stereo, but I bought it from an audiophile. It was pretty sweet. I still have the speakers and the receiver in storage.
I don’t think either angry’s or my method would work today given how tuition has become ridiculous and even basics like power and water cost that much more now. Students now are just resigned to being in debt for years on end. It diminishes their ability to do anything for almost a decade after graduation… at least if they’re fiscally conservative it does. More often, people are just so accustomed to being in debt that more of it means very little to them. So more and more people are living on margin.
And players get other benefits besides the material. They get publicity for their futures and they get to rub elbows with the people who are more willing and able to give money to their respective programs. You can’t tell me that’s not worth something when searching for a job after graduation or even years down the road.
So I don’t want to hear about people getting a full ride whining about not getting pizza once a week. I got a slice at American Dream and went downtown to a bar maybe once a month… after I paid all my bills and rent and figured I had a little extra to go splurge… which I really didn’t since I still owed money.
I don’t think either angry’s or my method would work today given how tuition has become ridiculous I forget what tuition was, but it wasn’t cheap. This was like 10 years ago for me and my 2nd degree (already had a programming degree from back East). I graduated with 25k in debt and paid it off within 2 years from working a good job I got via a $2/hr internship.
There is a huge difference between “I can’t” and “I don’t want to”…I think these players just don’t want to work, so they claim they can’t. I get it…nobody wants to work. Everyone wants to hang out and Tweet. So, yes, I understand, but I don’t sympathize. Terron Ward has it better than almost everyone on campus. Does he realize that? To me it reads as greed and laziness and disillusion. Maybe I am wrong or just have different standards. There is clearly gray area on this issue, and society favors (perceived) fairness right now.
a $2 an hour internship? What’s the point of even offering that as a paid internship? Seems like it should either be unpaid, or if it is paid, at least it should hit minimum wage. (or maybe you meant to say $12/hr?) That’s a slap in the face that they would call that a paid internship.
Teron Ward doesn’t speak for everybody. Sure, some of these guys are going to come off sounding greedy, but why don’t we criticize the schools and the NCAA for being greedy, by not allowing their workhorses to get paid. Maybe there should be a cap on how much revenue a program can bring in by creating some type of revenue sharing agreement across the NCAA. Would help level the playing field and keep the sports more interesting.
One interesting things I’ve been reading with the whole “unionization” efforts at Northwestern, is how the unionization of athletes would differ between public and private institutions. If schools did indeed start paying their players, the rules for public universities would have to be comparable across the board, but private universities wouldn’t have to play by the same rules. In the Pac, you’d have USC with the ability to pay whatever they’d like, while public schools like OSU would be bound by different rules. As if USC didn’t have enough recruiting advantages. Imagine if they could offer better pay than the rest of the conference?
$2 salary + free lodging in NYC (~$4,000 given the large house and beach front location I got). The Park Service owned it, so they could give me the free lodging. The pay was in the fringe benefits. The $2 didn’t even cover food.
It was the best job of my life, actually. I got a high paying job from the experience, too.
The point is these athletes have a similar setup. They have a high standard of living for college students. It’s just hidden in all the fringe benefits we don’t see as easily.
If schools did indeed start paying their players, the rules for public universities would have to be comparable across the board, but private universities wouldn’t have to play by the same rules.
Yes, there would be many things working against OSU if we go to pay for play. The rule above, but also # of boosters, net worth of boosters, corporate networking, etc. I honestly would not be surprised if ESPN is behind the union efforts at Northwestern.
Historical tuitions:
http://www.ous.edu/sites/default/files/dept/budget/files/Historical_TF_AY74_thru_AY93.pdf
http://www.ous.edu/sites/default/files/dept/budget/files/Historical_TF_AY94_thru_AY14_20140113.pdf
I went 88-92. I seem to recall summer term was about half again the cost per credit hour.
“oatmeal, ramen and whatever from the can food outlet” – The breakfast of champions.
Do they still make Beer beer?
curious what sports you played year round, and the time commitment involved? Was it rec-league stuff? Or were you involved in OSU athletics?
Baseball in the spring/summer and fencing in the fall/winter. Yeah it took a lot of time, and I got home late and was tired a lot. I worked full-time the months I had off, and I worked part-time during the season. I finished my 4 year degree in 2 years with a 3.8gpa. I took 20+ credit terms at OSU, even had to get special approval for that because they said it couldn’t be done while balancing life. I fully acknowledge it’s hard to balance a schedule. But hard isn’t an excuse. You just have to make sacrifices somewhere else to make it work.
To me, Terron Ward has a lot. More than 99% of students. And he is whining about it/asking for more.
You sound more like the exception than the rule when it comes to work life balance and ability to accomplish your work in the time available. Not many people can keep that type of schedule and be successful to boot.
Its tough to sell these kids that the work theyre putting in already isnt enough to keep their plates full when they see the crazy revenues theyre producing.
(yes JB, I’m currently in the stall taking care of business. Youre welcome)
They aren’t all producing revenue, though. Nobody is going to Reser to see Terron Ward. It’s a few players (Mannion, Cooks, …the difference makers) who produce revenue.
I’m sure I’m the exception and an extreme case, but I just know it’s possible to balance school, work, and extra-curricular. For these football players, it would mean some sacrifice (like fewer frat parties, less time on twitter, etc). Instead of acknowledging they can do that, they whine that what they are given for free isn’t enough.
My first job out of school was a free room and board internship, too, btw. So I know what it is like to live off a stipend. Again, it’s just about modifying life for that period of time. I gained experience that led to lucrative pay later on. These athletes all get that same shot. I don’t want to say that because I did xyz everyone should do it. But when you are handed a 50k+ standard of living you should be grateful for the opportunity instead of being greedy and wanting more.
And as OSU fans, paying players would NOT benefit our University at all.
A more interesting question is how does this fit into a free-market framework. Like in theory I am all for free markets (as you said, if someone wants to pay for his signature why not?), but I am against it here. I can’t really articulate why except that instinctively I feel that it will cascade and benefit only a few schools. The fans and average students at these colleges will all lose. It will make higher education into Hollywood…a bigger joke that it already has become. But, like I said, I welcome it because I think that decline is needed sooner rather than later. Right now the sport is dying via a thousand paper cuts. The more ridiculous it gets the sooner it dies.
Ewww…hope you washed your hands. JB
There is a limit to what the player could earn in outside. I know that 10 years ago the limit was $2500 that a player could earn during the entire year. This was to prevent boosters from hiring players and paying the $100/hr to dig ditches. 10 years ago scholarship athletes got $700/month in stipends that was to pay for all non-school related expenses. In Corvallis that was enough to pay for rent (min. $350/month) and food/supplies for the month. Training table covered dinners throughout most of the year. I am not in favor of paying athletes but I do think it would be wise to moderately increase the scholarship stipend. Additionally this might slightly lower the likelihood of taking inappropriate benefits as the need will be less.
Additionally this might slightly lower the likelihood of taking inappropriate benefits as the need will be less.
Possibly but temptation/greed probably drives that more than need. Say a player can make 4k per year now working. Wouldn’t the supplement so they don’t run out of food?
An increase to match cost of living is fine, but that is not happening in isolation. The Northwestern situation is a game changer.
maybe this data is outdated, but found this link from Stanford saying their student athletes are limited to making $2000 gross in a year. Also, that job has to be outside the athletic department.
http://www.stanford.edu/~islander/jobrules.html
WTF? $2000 in a year? So even if they did have a job in the offseason, they would be limited on how much they could earn. That’s $167 per month (pre tax).to live off. That’s just…..unamerican…..
That’s $167 per month on top of the $40-125K they’re paid for their day jobs. That number is ranged because of tuition differentiations. So let’s say they’re paid in the form of room, board, medical, trainers, nutritionists, clothing/shoes and tutors… and another $400 or so in stuff from a bowl if they manage to go 6-6. That all comes to about $35K in value depending on CoL in the location.
If you can’t make it on $42 per weekend (on top of the per diem), I’m not feeling any empathy for you.
Riley: “I do have some thoughts. Really, I’m just interested in what that will all mean someday. I know we’re in for some big changes through the years. I just don’t know what that all means right now. ”
LOL .. Man, that is vintage Riley. “I do have some thoughts” … but I cant recall them right now….so I will just blow a little smoke…. Every time I hear him speak, or read what he says, it occurs to me that he aint very bright.
I don’t think it’s lack of brightness. It his usual non-committal style with controversial topics, and isn’t he on some NCAA Nice Guy coaches committee?
On some committee? What does that show?
Non committal? Then just say you dont care to comment. He says he has some thoughts on it, and then doesnt give any. Sorry, but at the least he doesnt, even after being a head coach for many years, seem able to speak well. Maybe he is just unable to speak what is on his mind but in that case, you think up something intelligent to say, in preparation for being asked about it.. This is a current big issue — if he doesnt know what to make of it, just say so.
Not sure how I could describe the difference between bright and quick and I’ve never been able to think of Riley as unbright, exactly, but, at least in interviews – he doesn’t seem very quick. Too, I rarely get the impression he’s focused on what he’s been asked.
It will be a sad day when college athletics meets its demise. It’s hard to see any solution that would fix the issue of the players getting enough funds without a large number of schools objecting.
I think eventually, the bigger schools will break away from the NCAA and form their own association. Similar to what happened in England with teams breaking away and forming the premier league.
This thread sure runs the risk of a grumpy old man-get off my lawn-back in my day-theme.
They’ll probably end up increasing the monthly stipend, calling it good, and all will resume to its normal state.
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130601123855/injusticegodsamongus/images/2/25/Get-off-my-lawn.jpg
What a terrible flick. I can still hear his gravely voice trying to sing the theme song over the closing credits.
Its just so beautiful….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riT_06qEUW8&app=desktop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsXHVC8wM1M&list=RDdsXHVC8wM1M
terrible flick? Gran Torino was a great movie
I hope you’re kidding. One of the biggest piles of crap I’ve sat through in my life. Almost as bad as Freddy Got Fingered.
God Damned Commies
New MasterCard commercial: Priceless,
Beating your arch rival with a short handed goal with .6 seconds to advance to the national championship game. Making it even better is the kid that did it was a senior who had not scored a goal all season. That was an awesome birthday present yesterday.
University of Minnesota Official Athletic Site – University of Minnesota
http://www.gophersports.com/
Gophers Shock North Dakota … The Gopher hockey team will play for the national title with a shocking … ( FROZEN FOUR )) vs North Dakota – 7:30 PM CT …
?Men’s Basketball – ?Hockey – ?Football – ?Basketball
That was at once amazing and heartbreaking. I didn’t start watching the game until 11 last night. So I was sure that it was going to overtime until Warning’s goal. Then I thought it was over the way Wilcox was playing. Then 30 seconds later I thought it was going to OT.
That was a backward game. UND played like the #1 team in the nation, and Minnie scrambled to keep up. I can’t believe they withstood that third period barrage. The fore-checking was just brutal. And then they win on a short-handed goal with less than a second left?
It’ll be too bad when Wilcox goes to the NHL. I won’t get to see him play again until the Olympics. Without him, UND probably wins that game 7-1.
Have to agree that we got outplayed and if it goes to overtime we probably lose. It was fun being on the other end of a ending like that. Lots of experience the other way, like last year with Yale.
Wilcox was unbelievable in the third period. The streak of not losing this year when scoring first lives on, albeit the hard way.
The scuttlebutt is that Wilcox is planning on coming back next year. I hope it is true.
I hope so too. The kid is just damn good. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone with that kind of vision and anticipation.
I refuse to watch the NHL until they ban fighting and implement suspensions… and get rid of the red line. That “sport” is just unwatchable.
I think the kids should be able to sign endorsements and autographs for money. The universities should not be spending more general fund dollars on sports though.
I pretty much agree with this.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304743704577382292376194220
If the schools who do make money off football (pretty much just BCS schools) break away and form a minor or semi-pro league, then the idea of a football student-athlete is done for those schools. Bissinger further clarified the idea of a “minor” league by saying these schools could all sell their football teams to private enterprise. The NFL would (should?) probably subsidize the league. These teams would then pay the schools for licensing rights in order to retain the loyal fan bases. They would also pay rent for facilities where that is applicable. The revenue to the schools would be free and clear, and the players could use their wages to go to school or not. No ships, no NCAA. But there would need to be a draft in place… and probably a salary cap and players’ union with a CBA.
I think Ean says is probably right re: where this will head in the short term. I can only speak for myself, but as a (small) four figure donor to Our Beaver Nation I can tell you that when OSU starts paying for its playings I’ll stop those donations and simply buy tickets to the games that appeal to me.
The WSJ article Jack linked reminds me of something I’ve been thinking about ever since the NLRB made their ruling: few “big buck” programs will be more severely hurt in terms of donor support than
our “friends” down the road in Eugene. Given Nike’s deportment on “work place” related issues we
would likely see that source of support dry up. That might be a net gain for OSU in terms of competitive balance.
*players
Good news, Luke Del Rio will be playing with us an extra year. Cleared to participate in 2014
Connor Letourneau ?@ConnOregonian 2m
Luke Del Rio has been cleared by the NCAA to play next season.
This makes for some intrigue. I think this guy has the skills to beat out Mannion. It will be interesting to watch how Riley deals with that if/when Del Rio outperforms him in camp. He actually had the balls to put in Mannion over Katz so it’ll be interesting. Now that Cooks is gone Mannion is going to struggle with his style, imo.
No way they screw Mannion like that. Del Rio only plays if Mannion gets injured, but at least that gives him the opportunity to practice with the 2’s all year instead of Vanderveen and gain experience for 2015.
Mannion is safe short of a meltdown of epic proportions. Will this impact Kline’s decision?
If Del Rio becomes the backup, I would expect one of the other young guys to transfer.
The backup this year needs to get some meaningful snaps so they are not rolling out a total newbie
at the Big House in 2015.
I caught the last 45 minutes of practice on Wednesday. Mannion is head and shoulders above the rest rest of the quarterbacks right now, granted del rio has only been practicing 2 weeks compared to mannions 4+ years. Del Rio looks like Cody vaz physically, I think his measurements got a little bump.
Tough break for Braylon Addison down at UO. Out for season with ACL injury. They’ll have a lot of offense to replace with Huff/Addison gone, as well as DAT. Not to mention a new D coordinator. Better hope Mari-O-ta’s knee holds up this year or there could be some unhappy bandwagoners down south next year.
I call BS on the food thing. I will give walk-on players a pass on this one, because they don’t get to participate in training table. For the rest of them, you wouldn’t believe the amount of players who use Twitter and other social media to basically get anything they want. I can think of one popular player we had several years ago who would constantly ask anyone who was on Twitter if they would go get him food and bring it to him at study hall, etc. I can think of one basketball player who did the same thing. Students would jump at the chance at bringing these guys food, and it worked. Trust me, they ate very well.
I can’t count the times I saw guys going into Sharon’s Cafe or Shari’s day in and day out. I never got to eat that well when I attended OSU as a regular student.
Last, they get training table. They have a great chef there who feeds the athletes VERY well. The slop they feed the regular students over at McNary and West halls is exactly that – slop- compared to training table.