Go Beavs- So anybody thinking Moreland will possibly declare for draft early again, at the end of the season? Don’t think he should, but can’t imagine he wants to spend another year waiting.
He was pretty set on it, which is why I think he upped his offensive game and cut down on the flip floppin’ limbs to the hoop move he did a lot last season. Isn’t the general rule to go if you’d be in the first round, and stick around if you’re not?
Of course, I’d try my best to remain in the league and keep winning the lottery… not to mention all the fun of getting to play a game I love. But this is a decent consolation if that falls through.
I think his offensive game is crude at best. Opponents give him the mid-range shot. He’s unsure and turnover prone when driving to the basket. I know he’s going to go, but he is going to be a big project if he makes it.
I don’t know how Vegas thinks this is a single digit game given what happened in Tuscon.
The last time we beat a top ten team was 2000 against #3 Zony (14 years to the day?). We’re 0-22 since then. If a miracle occurs tonight and we win, does that mean we’re going to go and win a BCS game in football next season too?
I was at that game too. Wasnt Jason Terry on that team too? I seek to remember a game where osu students rushed the floor and Terry decked some guy who got in his face
Nope Terry graduated the prior year. Arenas Jefferson and Walton were the leaders of that team.
Playing ball at Dixon that night!!?? What the hell ?? That was probably the last time Gill was truly rocking and Dino Tanner was playing out of his mind at the time. That game was the place to be.
I took Beavs to win +450 …lost that but hit the + 9 with the Blazers on a separate ticket.
Another game they could have won with proper coaching and execution down the stretch.. Oh and the refs were absolutely brutal!!
Refs up to their old tricks. What was that call on Angus? He seats a screen and defender runs through him but he gets an offensive foul? Gomis clean block, Nelson drives lane and gets contact no call?
Collier didnt even make contact with anything but the ball. Gomis had incidental contact with his man in an unrelated play. This cant be considered flagrant, but pac 12 refs will find every reason to fuck it up
Try blaming Collier, Moreland and Nelson for blowing it at the foul line yet again and for Roberto stinking up the joint in the 2nd half. That’s where the blame belongs
I mean I totally agree, but at what point does that reflect back on the coach? It’s a consistent and predictable that they completely fall apart at the end of close games, over a huge sample size.
I blame CR for taking the air out of the ball again. They are not a good ball handling team, so just run your stuff and hope for the best. Why dribble out front for 25 seconds and then have Nelson try something desperate?
This is a good point too. Whatever happened to “dance with who brung you” ball? The refs tried their hardest to take us out of our game. Why just go and do it ourselves?
It’s a good question. There’s a pretty discernible psychological shift by the guards in the last one to two minutes of close games. Is that on the coach? Like most things, it’s probably a mix. The last couple years, the team has seemed most comfortable in games where they have a lead in the first half, blow the lead, then give focused play as they try to mount a comeback. This game had a different feel. Lots of lead changes and a high level of effort throughout by the Beavs. Hey look! we can beat one of the top teams in the nation= headcase Nelson and frosh Cooke pants pooping.
Gary Payton was screaming to get the ball inside. Unfortunately, Collier is such a shitty foul shooter that I’m sure CR takes that in to consideration at crunch time also.
That doesn’t matter because OSU really sucked before CR got here, and you know, Jared Cunningham was horrible but because of excellent coaching at OSU, he now plays in the NBA and left early so that really messed up recruiting.. BLAH BLAH BLAH That’s your answer. Or it is at least what CR will have you believe. Heard that one 1,000,000,000,000 times.
Don’t be dismissive of that first point… or the second for that matter. One day you might hear why Jahii Carson ended up not going to OSU, and you’ll feel like an ass for pretending to know something about something… which looks a lot like you just made up a bunch of stuff for an embellished effect.
I dont get the 1-on-5 game wit Nelson at the end of the game. If you need threes, and Cooke, one of the best 3 pt shooters in the Pac is wide open, maybe you should think of getting Cooke the ball?
After watching this game I am left feeling so confused on the rules of basketball. Certain area did not add up. Like, can anyone explain to me the difference between a blocking and charging foul?
If you’re an OSU player standing still while holding the ball and a defender slams into you… that’s a charge.
If you’re an OSU player standing still without the ball and a ball-handler slams into you… that’s a block.
I think?
I knew at the beginning when I saw Kevin Brill talking to CR that it was going to be one horribly called game. Then I saw Vinovich, and I knew it would be the story of the game.
But I had no fucking clue they were going to be that epically bad… even for those two. Those calls were so bad that just being their own crappy selves wold have made them comparative all-star refs. I can’t believe any person with even a hint of knowledge about the rules of basketball could make calls so flagrantly wrong. I honestly believe there might be some money changing hands in darkened hallways after a “performance” like that.
Zony fans better hope the East Coast went to sleep before this game. If they stayed up and watched it, the rest of the country is going to think UA was gifted games like this all season long.
Ironically, we seemed to play better and stay engaged because of the possibly purchased refs.
Seems like the Beavs get zero respect by the officials, isn’t CR responsible for some of that? Do the officials think he’s an ass or is it just that OSU has sucked so long they are not going to do the team any favors?
I do think the officiating was awful… BUT… when you turn the ball over as much as this team does, you’re not going to get any respect. They look sloppy and out of control and the refs see that as well.
Half our turnovers were directly due to that mysterious officiating. But the other half just seemed to be bone-headed plays that came at just the wrong time every time.
Some food for thought Jack. Zona shot just as poorly on FT’s as OSU did. I’m not blaming the refs for that loss. That game was there for the taking. Yes, there were quite a few shitty calls that went against OSU (the one on Brandt late in the game was fucking atrocious). But if they make their damn FT’s and turn the ball over half as much that game is a W
The game was no different from the first half to the second except for what the refs called for fouls in the second half for UA vs what they called in the second. A lot of clean or “let them play” calls were called otherwise, leading to 20+ tosses for UA in the second half, wile they took less than ten in the first. We had to get calls that were more than obvious all game long, and even then they let play go on no matter how obvious it was for several non-calls. One prime example of this was the call on Gomis where Vidovich called body while he was defending Tarc on a shot. There was the obvious contact that Tarc initiated while he was trying to back Daniel into the lane. But when he went up for the shot Daniel played perfect straight up D, and there was zero contact up and down. Vinovich imagined it anyway even though he didn’t have the angle to make that call. Meanwhile, our bigs were kneed and hipped on interior moves on almost every play with no calls. And a lot of initial shots by the bigs which were played off such contact were never called either. It wasn’t until we got an O-board and fought through a sea of arms to get the ball back to the rim that we got any kind of call.
They also hand-checked and bodied our ball-handlers on screen hedges and got away with it all game long. And the defender who would try to fight trough such screens often held or arm-barred our ball-handlers to slow tem when they ran off screens. I was absolutely shocked that McConnell was called for such a play late in the game… after it really didn’t matter anymore. But if you watched the after-play, McConnell was whining that Berto was holding his arm, making it look like a foul. What McConnell and the rest of their team was doing for the whole of the game said otherwise… as did the replay from two different angles. But McConnell seemed to be genuinely butt hurt by the call. That kind of “not me” whining is some real high school crap. But it works on pathetic refs like Brill and Vinovich.
I thought the game Michael Eggers refused to call in the second half of our game in Seattle earlier this year would be the worst we saw all year. Or I thought the game at ASU where Darren George and Eric Curry gifted Carson as many FTs as our team as a whole got during the game might be the last time we see a game so blatantly homered. But this game was called with an obvious bias. And on some calls bias, blindness or incompetence doesn’t even begin to describe why they were made. It’s impossible to think Brill and Vinovich weren’t making supplemental income based on the way they called last night’s game. I know both of them are extremely bad refs, especially Brill. But some of those calls were beyond the most poorly called plays I’ve ever seen. And they were so poor to a degree that even those two aren’t that bad. The simplest answer is usually the truth. What would make those two call a game 150% beyond poor for even them?
What makes it unlikely for Vinovich is that he is actually a pretty good NFL ref. He just sucks at calling hoops… always has. But Brill has a history of suck so bad that he should have been fired six years ago. And what makes it worse is that he is normally extremely lopsided against Zony and Sean Miller whenever I see him ref a UA game. I don’t think the Pac has any blacklist for coaches to keep refs away from them. If we did have such a thing, Brill would be banned from most Pac floors. But even his historical suck doesn’t explain last night.
OR how about the call on Moreland with AZ on the fast break and they missed the layup and as soon as the ball comes out of the cylinder there is a whistle on Moreland who almost went balistic. Then there was Moreland’s goaltend that he absolutely hammered before it the glass and they called it good, meanwhile on the other end AZ had a blatant goaltend that was not called, but lucky for us went in anyways.
We did enough to lose the game with missed FT and turnovers, but there is no doubt that the officiating changed that game, it interrupted the flow, it changed the matchups on the floor after Goomis and Brandt were sent to the bench early cause of fouls, and it game the Beavs a since that they were playing against two teams refs and Zona.
That whole foul on Goomis where he was fighting for position that took 30 minutes of replay watching to determine if there was a technical or not was proof of their incompetence. How could Robinson stand for that is beyond me, I would have been thrown out. The Zona player establishing position is banging on Goomis who swims moves to front him and his elbow comes across and scraps his head when the AZ player brings his head down? Then the previous call on Collier where he clearly knocks the ball out of AZ players hands was not a foul either. There is a long long list of poor calls.
Gomis deserved the technical. Not for the swim move, but if you were watching the broadcast, he grabbed and squeezed the Arizona player’s cock n balls before getting into his defensive position. It was blatant and the refs made the right call.
There was a really terrible out of bounds call that gave Arizona the ball after their big Polish guy clearly tapped the ball out of bounds. No amount of referee interpretation or bad angle can excuse that call.
The Gomis hand foul with the hacky sack happens all the time down low. If the refs would have taken an additional four hours to review tape, they could have come up with four or five various “flagrants” like that on either team. That’s what makes that call BS. They weren’t even looking for it when they originally went to the monitor, but you can’t argue against the final call.
What makes it worse is the call that led to the stoppage that led to the review for the swim move that led to UA getting time to get in the ref’s ear about the grab that led to them going back to look for the grab… that resulted in the final call. If play goes on because of a correct non-call, then that grab is forgotten as play continues because it’s something that happens all the time during play.
They review contact with the head.(regardless of head location). Yeah, the Collier attempted steal wasnt a foul, but they were reviewing the head contact anyway and happened to see the cock pull. Arizonas player complained about it so they were looking for it.
They didn’t happen to see anything. Because the play was fresh and the game stopped at that point, Tarc whined at the refs about it. If play would have continued for another couple possessions, they would have still gone to the monitor at the next stoppage to look at the head contact… maybe. But Tarc would have been focused on the most recent play and not getting in the ref’s ear about something now forgotten.
Like I said, stuff like that happens a lot down low. But it’s forgotten in the whole of the game. Players take care of that stuff on their own without letting it rise to anything out of control. And I’m not sure the refs even got the call right in the end. I don’t think the rules allow them to watch the monitor for anything but a flagrant or for possession. That wasn’t the call on Gomis. They simply called a T on him. That would have been the correct call if seen live by an official. But there’s no rule saying they can look for that stuff on replays. That would vastly change the game.
I get what you’re saying, and yes, it’s total BS that they originally called a foul on Collier, but after the replay, that foul magically disappeared (or maybe I’m missing something? I thought possession went back to the Beavs after the 2 made tech free throws?) and the tech got called on Gomis instead, even though they weren’t reviewing for that specifically.
Regardless, hand jobs should not be a part of sports and deserve a tech.
They’re a part. They’re not as big a part in hoops anymore since TV covers more and more these days. But you can tell sometimes when you’re watching a defender front a low post that his feel hand goes back and too low when the post player reacts accordingly. Gomis’ was a little odd since it didn’t occur during play.
Regardless, retroactive calls like that are not reviewable. Only when they are determining a flagrant, possession or the foot placement on a trey are they allowed to make a call off review. They didn’t call a flagrant, and the obviously lousy call on Collier stood. If they were allowed to call retro fouls upon review, the game would go away… as would any sport.
And this is nothing compared to what happens in football… on several plays. I agree people shouldn’t be doing this shit on any level in any sport. But it does happen, and it is common.
ya know what really pisses me off the most? If this team just had some basic fundamentals, they’d be right there in the top 3 in the conference this year. But I blame that on CR
Turnovers
Lazy Passes that lead to turnovers
Poor FT shooting
Honestly, I think the most complete game they played this season was last year. Against Maryland. You are supposed to improve throughout the course of the season. I don’t see improvement in any of these areas. Collier, Nelson, Brandt, Moreland. They look exactly like the same flawed players they were last year.
Gary Payton needs to turn it town a notch. He’s becoming a distracting pain in the butt and makes the team dynamic even worse. Hope he enjoys his court side CBI seats. JB
Highly successful, professional coaches, such as yours truly, see things that you layman just don’t recognize. Stick you complaing about results and leave the heavy lifting old PBH. JB
Did anyone else notice that Collier made a baseline jumper last night?
I almost fell on the floor from shock after that one. Can you imagine how deadly Collier would have been over his career if he took and sometimes made that short corner?
How about Brandt dribbling top of the key going right–his defender cut him off (not even a good reach-in but more of a body block), ball gets away, moreland gets the chippy at the end of the play which “had” resulted in a blown layup.
That 10 seconds resulted a non-call against AZ, a cheap call against Moreland, and two points at the line for Zona. At least a four point swing….
this is the first time I’ve read a hoops thread all the way thru this year. It reconfirmed several things: (1) Basketball is a fundamentally flawed game because of the subjective nature of calling fouls, it also being the only sport where committing a foul on purpose is tactically advantageous; it’s the only game that rewards penalties; (2) OSU is perpetually tortured by this kind of refereeing because the AD presents a sad sack demeanor that almost invites this kind of abuse; (3) notwithstanding this observation, and to Angry’s point about tuning out sports (or, at least A sport),
it really does wonders for your peace of mind. Reading all this angst made me sympathetic to your plight.
That was some of the worst officiating I’ve seen in a while. Usually it evens out over the game but there were some just awful calls.
1. Brandt holding the ball and getting run over by the defender but the foul is on Brandt.
2. Brandt getting two full hands on the ball and getting called for a foul instead of a tie up.
3. Arizona clearly knocking the ball out of bounds and the refs say OSU knocked it out.
4. The obvious goaltending on Arizona that fortunately Moreland put back.
5. The foul call on Collier where he got all ball on the reach and then morphed into a technical on Gomis (The tech was the right call but it would not have happened had play not stopped).
The Beavs could have overcame this with better free throw shooting and without some dumb turnovers by Cooke. I think he’s not realizing how much the athleticism steps up at this level. He’s still playing like he’s going against HS players sometimes.
6. The walk called on Brandt which was nowhere near correct.
7. The up and down jump ball call on Berto which clearly left his hands due to the blocked shot then came down with him.
8. I can’t help Berto on his two charges. I would have called them too. But the one on Moreland was not correct or even close to correct. Jefferson did not have position or anything resembling it, and getting that call requires you come from off the ball or get in front of the ball, not just sliding from behind because you got beat.
9. The late goal-tend on a shot Collier took where he was fouled. It wasn’t going to go, but the rules don’t care. It was clearly still in the cylinder when Tarc grabbed it.
10. Hand checks and grabs on ball-handlers up top all game long… but worse in the second half.
11. Gomis making a sweet all ball/no body block on a Tarc gimme with no other bigs obscuring the view… only to be called for it.
12. Tarc grabbed and pulled Gomis to the ground on box-outs more than once.
13. There were only two uncalled walks I saw all game (plus the imanary one on Brandt and the obvious one on McConnell in the lane). One came really early when Tarc took four steps to get an and-one. The other was early in the second half… Tarc on the block again. That’s surprisingly very few walks in a game, let alone the very few (two) that were called.
I guess the bigger question that Robaminson needs asked at his PC next week is why are they still losing close games? You have 3 seniors on this team that play significant minutes. They’ve improved from 4 to 7 wins (possibly 8 if they win this weekend). They’ve swept the two worst teams in the conference for 4 of those wins and one has a first year coach, the other one that is going to get shit canned (USC and Wazzu). 3 home game wins against UCLA, Stanford and Oregon. I don’y know about you but I really don’t see much if any improvement. Still losing close games. I wonder where the problem lies?
Funny (or not) – the sltrib comments after the Cal-Utahgame refer to horrible Pac-12 refs and Utah won! (Krysto beating his old coach) Apparently the Utes won despite the referees’ best efforts to give the game to Cal.
As Shakespeare said while fishing with his reel, “Much ado about nothing. The dog ate my lunch. Like Tina Turner, the refs give us no respect. The PAC 12 ref shot JFK.”
Big news for T & F fans. http://www.osubeavers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=30800&ATCLID=209427189
Beats talking MBB.
Go Beavs- So anybody thinking Moreland will possibly declare for draft early again, at the end of the season? Don’t think he should, but can’t imagine he wants to spend another year waiting.
He was pretty set on it, which is why I think he upped his offensive game and cut down on the flip floppin’ limbs to the hoop move he did a lot last season. Isn’t the general rule to go if you’d be in the first round, and stick around if you’re not?
1st rounders get slotted three-year guaranteed contracts.
I wouldn’t even care about making it on an NBA floor with this scale.
http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/draftpickcapholds.jsp
That’s like winning the lottery.
Of course, I’d try my best to remain in the league and keep winning the lottery… not to mention all the fun of getting to play a game I love. But this is a decent consolation if that falls through.
I think his offensive game is crude at best. Opponents give him the mid-range shot. He’s unsure and turnover prone when driving to the basket. I know he’s going to go, but he is going to be a big project if he makes it.
How much does the D league pay these days anyway?
All the hot dogs you can eat and stays in a Motel 6.
Sweet. Where do I sign up?
Ask Cunningham.
Cunningham made a nice chunk of change.
Yeah, i think he can afford to finish that degree if he ever needs to
Did he sign with someone this week? There was some mention in the Oregonian about it.
As of today he hasn’t signed with anyone. Hopefully he gets a shot to get on the floor with someone.
Dance fever…..
What’s the line tonight? I’m feeling it. It was I think my sophomore year when Dino hit that shot to beat Zona.
Pretty sure that was the last time we beat a top 10… hell even a top 5 team.
I still remember going to some party at a barn in the middle of nowhere and all the UA players decided to still show up.. Walton Arenas Jefferson etc.
The line is OSU+9.5 and +/-138.
I don’t know how Vegas thinks this is a single digit game given what happened in Tuscon.
The last time we beat a top ten team was 2000 against #3 Zony (14 years to the day?). We’re 0-22 since then. If a miracle occurs tonight and we win, does that mean we’re going to go and win a BCS game in football next season too?
What is weird to me is the moneyline odds. +455 feels awful low for +9.5, maybe I am wrong but this should be a +600-650 moneyline.
Not like the ml matters…
BTW I have never been more sure of a bet as I was Sunday evening taking UCLA -11 in the second half.
I was playing basketball in Dixon that night and decided to stay there instead of walking across the street to watch another blowout. oops.
Hey GWH, you handload?
http://Www.MountainFabrication.com
Just for Lee presses now but Dillon, RCBS and Hornady are in the works.
I was at that game too. Wasnt Jason Terry on that team too? I seek to remember a game where osu students rushed the floor and Terry decked some guy who got in his face
This sounds like a funny story, would love to see an article link or video
Nope Terry graduated the prior year. Arenas Jefferson and Walton were the leaders of that team.
Playing ball at Dixon that night!!?? What the hell ?? That was probably the last time Gill was truly rocking and Dino Tanner was playing out of his mind at the time. That game was the place to be.
I took Beavs to win +450 …lost that but hit the + 9 with the Blazers on a separate ticket.
Another game they could have won with proper coaching and execution down the stretch.. Oh and the refs were absolutely brutal!!
Refs up to their old tricks. What was that call on Angus? He seats a screen and defender runs through him but he gets an offensive foul? Gomis clean block, Nelson drives lane and gets contact no call?
P-12 wants to do all it can to insure that Zona is a #1 seed?
Anybody have a link to the fox sports stream?. Comcast seems to have dropped the ball lately with that channel
Beavs might even win if they take care of the ball.
Are the refs going to call a flagrant on Collier for that? If so, the refs will give AZ the win down the stretch.
Collier didnt even make contact with anything but the ball. Gomis had incidental contact with his man in an unrelated play. This cant be considered flagrant, but pac 12 refs will find every reason to fuck it up
Just a sack grab by Gomis.
Saw Gomis’ stat line. He fouled out with only 2 pts and 2 balls.
Refs will not allow Beavs to win.
This is absolutely ridiculous. The announcers have questioned the refs multiple times already.
Lol-Gomis squeezed his junk! Well deserved technical
Just gettin’ into his head.
Collier and Moreland stinking it up at the foul line is gonna cost OSU the game. Broken record.
Collier and Moreland 4 of 11 from the foul line and the Beavers are down 2
Make that 4 of 12
This is the most lopsided officiating I have ever seen, what a joke.
Robinson teams can choke games away on their own. They don’t need the refs providing even more help to the opponent, this is unwatchable.
The team is playing great but this officiating is terrible.
Gotta make free throws.
As much as I have liked Roberto over his career, he has really failed to deliver in big moments for Oregon State. Brutal 2nd half tonight
Probably a generalizaton, but it seems like Berto scores a lot when nothing is really at stake.
Also a guess… I’d be willing to bet Berto’s three highest scoring conference games were the three worst reffed games–@UW, @ASU, UA.
Every call is horrible, Az player falls into Brandt with the ball and Angus gets foul, should’ve been a jump.
Beavs have been called for 3 or 4 offensive fouls. 0 called against AZ.
For every Nelson positive there is 2 negatives.
So frustrating, turnovers, missed free throws, and horrible calls. So hard to watch college hoops makes my stomach turn.
And the Beavers lose cause Collier and Moreland can’t make free throws and their guards can’t take of the ball. Same story as always.
Nelson was awful!!!!
Nelson is 6 of 20 from the field with 6 turnovers and 3 huge misses at the foul line late
And a shitty effort on defense.
This is another classic, laughable, Craig Robinson coached Beaver meltdown.
Try blaming Collier, Moreland and Nelson for blowing it at the foul line yet again and for Roberto stinking up the joint in the 2nd half. That’s where the blame belongs
I mean I totally agree, but at what point does that reflect back on the coach? It’s a consistent and predictable that they completely fall apart at the end of close games, over a huge sample size.
I agree — end of a close game is where the coaching genius comes to play…….and we got none.
I blame CR for taking the air out of the ball again. They are not a good ball handling team, so just run your stuff and hope for the best. Why dribble out front for 25 seconds and then have Nelson try something desperate?
This is a good point too. Whatever happened to “dance with who brung you” ball? The refs tried their hardest to take us out of our game. Why just go and do it ourselves?
It’s a good question. There’s a pretty discernible psychological shift by the guards in the last one to two minutes of close games. Is that on the coach? Like most things, it’s probably a mix. The last couple years, the team has seemed most comfortable in games where they have a lead in the first half, blow the lead, then give focused play as they try to mount a comeback. This game had a different feel. Lots of lead changes and a high level of effort throughout by the Beavs. Hey look! we can beat one of the top teams in the nation= headcase Nelson and frosh Cooke pants pooping.
Gary Payton was screaming to get the ball inside. Unfortunately, Collier is such a shitty foul shooter that I’m sure CR takes that in to consideration at crunch time also.
That doesn’t matter because OSU really sucked before CR got here, and you know, Jared Cunningham was horrible but because of excellent coaching at OSU, he now plays in the NBA and left early so that really messed up recruiting.. BLAH BLAH BLAH That’s your answer. Or it is at least what CR will have you believe. Heard that one 1,000,000,000,000 times.
Don’t be dismissive of that first point… or the second for that matter. One day you might hear why Jahii Carson ended up not going to OSU, and you’ll feel like an ass for pretending to know something about something… which looks a lot like you just made up a bunch of stuff for an embellished effect.
Fuck this. Game gets close and they have multiple turnovers and missed free throws. Why even watch?
Not even just normal turnovers. Lazy, sloppy, high school level mistakes.
“Lazy, sloppy, high school level mistakes”
When it comes to passing, this describes Roberto to a T
I dont get the 1-on-5 game wit Nelson at the end of the game. If you need threes, and Cooke, one of the best 3 pt shooters in the Pac is wide open, maybe you should think of getting Cooke the ball?
Cooke has been pretty awful at shooting 3s the past several games, including going 1/7 against UCLA…
Until tonight where he was 2/2, he was only 1/16 in the past 4 games.
Cooke is brick-city from 3. Hell, he’s brick-city from everywhere. Rims across the conference must cringe when the beaver clank-show comes to town.
Two of two proves you so right… again.
But anyways, it’s good to hear your takes again, Lindsay. Nice you can still make time for us with the new Grantland gig and all.
I’d take a wide open Cooke over a triple covered Nelson if I needed a quick 3.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/conferences/statistics/player/_/id/21/stat/scoring-per-game/sort/threePointFieldGoalPct/pac-12-conference
After watching this game I am left feeling so confused on the rules of basketball. Certain area did not add up. Like, can anyone explain to me the difference between a blocking and charging foul?
I got this.
If you’re an OSU player standing still while holding the ball and a defender slams into you… that’s a charge.
If you’re an OSU player standing still without the ball and a ball-handler slams into you… that’s a block.
I think?
I knew at the beginning when I saw Kevin Brill talking to CR that it was going to be one horribly called game. Then I saw Vinovich, and I knew it would be the story of the game.
But I had no fucking clue they were going to be that epically bad… even for those two. Those calls were so bad that just being their own crappy selves wold have made them comparative all-star refs. I can’t believe any person with even a hint of knowledge about the rules of basketball could make calls so flagrantly wrong. I honestly believe there might be some money changing hands in darkened hallways after a “performance” like that.
Zony fans better hope the East Coast went to sleep before this game. If they stayed up and watched it, the rest of the country is going to think UA was gifted games like this all season long.
Ironically, we seemed to play better and stay engaged because of the possibly purchased refs.
Seems like the Beavs get zero respect by the officials, isn’t CR responsible for some of that? Do the officials think he’s an ass or is it just that OSU has sucked so long they are not going to do the team any favors?
I do think the officiating was awful… BUT… when you turn the ball over as much as this team does, you’re not going to get any respect. They look sloppy and out of control and the refs see that as well.
Half our turnovers were directly due to that mysterious officiating. But the other half just seemed to be bone-headed plays that came at just the wrong time every time.
Some food for thought Jack. Zona shot just as poorly on FT’s as OSU did. I’m not blaming the refs for that loss. That game was there for the taking. Yes, there were quite a few shitty calls that went against OSU (the one on Brandt late in the game was fucking atrocious). But if they make their damn FT’s and turn the ball over half as much that game is a W
The game was no different from the first half to the second except for what the refs called for fouls in the second half for UA vs what they called in the second. A lot of clean or “let them play” calls were called otherwise, leading to 20+ tosses for UA in the second half, wile they took less than ten in the first. We had to get calls that were more than obvious all game long, and even then they let play go on no matter how obvious it was for several non-calls. One prime example of this was the call on Gomis where Vidovich called body while he was defending Tarc on a shot. There was the obvious contact that Tarc initiated while he was trying to back Daniel into the lane. But when he went up for the shot Daniel played perfect straight up D, and there was zero contact up and down. Vinovich imagined it anyway even though he didn’t have the angle to make that call. Meanwhile, our bigs were kneed and hipped on interior moves on almost every play with no calls. And a lot of initial shots by the bigs which were played off such contact were never called either. It wasn’t until we got an O-board and fought through a sea of arms to get the ball back to the rim that we got any kind of call.
They also hand-checked and bodied our ball-handlers on screen hedges and got away with it all game long. And the defender who would try to fight trough such screens often held or arm-barred our ball-handlers to slow tem when they ran off screens. I was absolutely shocked that McConnell was called for such a play late in the game… after it really didn’t matter anymore. But if you watched the after-play, McConnell was whining that Berto was holding his arm, making it look like a foul. What McConnell and the rest of their team was doing for the whole of the game said otherwise… as did the replay from two different angles. But McConnell seemed to be genuinely butt hurt by the call. That kind of “not me” whining is some real high school crap. But it works on pathetic refs like Brill and Vinovich.
I thought the game Michael Eggers refused to call in the second half of our game in Seattle earlier this year would be the worst we saw all year. Or I thought the game at ASU where Darren George and Eric Curry gifted Carson as many FTs as our team as a whole got during the game might be the last time we see a game so blatantly homered. But this game was called with an obvious bias. And on some calls bias, blindness or incompetence doesn’t even begin to describe why they were made. It’s impossible to think Brill and Vinovich weren’t making supplemental income based on the way they called last night’s game. I know both of them are extremely bad refs, especially Brill. But some of those calls were beyond the most poorly called plays I’ve ever seen. And they were so poor to a degree that even those two aren’t that bad. The simplest answer is usually the truth. What would make those two call a game 150% beyond poor for even them?
What makes it unlikely for Vinovich is that he is actually a pretty good NFL ref. He just sucks at calling hoops… always has. But Brill has a history of suck so bad that he should have been fired six years ago. And what makes it worse is that he is normally extremely lopsided against Zony and Sean Miller whenever I see him ref a UA game. I don’t think the Pac has any blacklist for coaches to keep refs away from them. If we did have such a thing, Brill would be banned from most Pac floors. But even his historical suck doesn’t explain last night.
OR how about the call on Moreland with AZ on the fast break and they missed the layup and as soon as the ball comes out of the cylinder there is a whistle on Moreland who almost went balistic. Then there was Moreland’s goaltend that he absolutely hammered before it the glass and they called it good, meanwhile on the other end AZ had a blatant goaltend that was not called, but lucky for us went in anyways.
We did enough to lose the game with missed FT and turnovers, but there is no doubt that the officiating changed that game, it interrupted the flow, it changed the matchups on the floor after Goomis and Brandt were sent to the bench early cause of fouls, and it game the Beavs a since that they were playing against two teams refs and Zona.
That whole foul on Goomis where he was fighting for position that took 30 minutes of replay watching to determine if there was a technical or not was proof of their incompetence. How could Robinson stand for that is beyond me, I would have been thrown out. The Zona player establishing position is banging on Goomis who swims moves to front him and his elbow comes across and scraps his head when the AZ player brings his head down? Then the previous call on Collier where he clearly knocks the ball out of AZ players hands was not a foul either. There is a long long list of poor calls.
Gomis deserved the technical. Not for the swim move, but if you were watching the broadcast, he grabbed and squeezed the Arizona player’s cock n balls before getting into his defensive position. It was blatant and the refs made the right call.
There was a really terrible out of bounds call that gave Arizona the ball after their big Polish guy clearly tapped the ball out of bounds. No amount of referee interpretation or bad angle can excuse that call.
The Gomis hand foul with the hacky sack happens all the time down low. If the refs would have taken an additional four hours to review tape, they could have come up with four or five various “flagrants” like that on either team. That’s what makes that call BS. They weren’t even looking for it when they originally went to the monitor, but you can’t argue against the final call.
What makes it worse is the call that led to the stoppage that led to the review for the swim move that led to UA getting time to get in the ref’s ear about the grab that led to them going back to look for the grab… that resulted in the final call. If play goes on because of a correct non-call, then that grab is forgotten as play continues because it’s something that happens all the time during play.
They review contact with the head.(regardless of head location). Yeah, the Collier attempted steal wasnt a foul, but they were reviewing the head contact anyway and happened to see the cock pull. Arizonas player complained about it so they were looking for it.
They didn’t happen to see anything. Because the play was fresh and the game stopped at that point, Tarc whined at the refs about it. If play would have continued for another couple possessions, they would have still gone to the monitor at the next stoppage to look at the head contact… maybe. But Tarc would have been focused on the most recent play and not getting in the ref’s ear about something now forgotten.
Like I said, stuff like that happens a lot down low. But it’s forgotten in the whole of the game. Players take care of that stuff on their own without letting it rise to anything out of control. And I’m not sure the refs even got the call right in the end. I don’t think the rules allow them to watch the monitor for anything but a flagrant or for possession. That wasn’t the call on Gomis. They simply called a T on him. That would have been the correct call if seen live by an official. But there’s no rule saying they can look for that stuff on replays. That would vastly change the game.
Oh… and replays on treys as well.
I get what you’re saying, and yes, it’s total BS that they originally called a foul on Collier, but after the replay, that foul magically disappeared (or maybe I’m missing something? I thought possession went back to the Beavs after the 2 made tech free throws?) and the tech got called on Gomis instead, even though they weren’t reviewing for that specifically.
Regardless, hand jobs should not be a part of sports and deserve a tech.
It seemed like the Beavs had a smidgen of momentum at the time and the “six hour” monitor review sucked the life out of the game for them.
They’re a part. They’re not as big a part in hoops anymore since TV covers more and more these days. But you can tell sometimes when you’re watching a defender front a low post that his feel hand goes back and too low when the post player reacts accordingly. Gomis’ was a little odd since it didn’t occur during play.
Regardless, retroactive calls like that are not reviewable. Only when they are determining a flagrant, possession or the foot placement on a trey are they allowed to make a call off review. They didn’t call a flagrant, and the obviously lousy call on Collier stood. If they were allowed to call retro fouls upon review, the game would go away… as would any sport.
And this is nothing compared to what happens in football… on several plays. I agree people shouldn’t be doing this shit on any level in any sport. But it does happen, and it is common.
You just got crossed off my invite list for Thanksgiving football next year…..
cock n balls????? Do it for momma
ya know what really pisses me off the most? If this team just had some basic fundamentals, they’d be right there in the top 3 in the conference this year. But I blame that on CR
Turnovers
Lazy Passes that lead to turnovers
Poor FT shooting
Honestly, I think the most complete game they played this season was last year. Against Maryland. You are supposed to improve throughout the course of the season. I don’t see improvement in any of these areas. Collier, Nelson, Brandt, Moreland. They look exactly like the same flawed players they were last year.
Brandt played last year?
as a matter of fact, he did. Then he got hurt. But my point still stands. Are any of these players improving over the course of the season?
I can accept those type of calls if we’re playing at az but any 50-50 call would go the Wildcats way.
It used to be an upset of number three would make great theater, but I sat there thinking are they really trying to protect a number one seed?
I recently read a book, “sports psychology for dummies” I’d be willing to loan it out to anyone who may be interested in reading it.
Gary Payton needs to turn it town a notch. He’s becoming a distracting pain in the butt and makes the team dynamic even worse. Hope he enjoys his court side CBI seats. JB
How do you know he makes the team dynamic worse? Or maybe you’re referring to the FS1 broadcast team.
Highly successful, professional coaches, such as yours truly, see things that you layman just don’t recognize. Stick you complaing about results and leave the heavy lifting old PBH. JB
Did anyone else notice that Collier made a baseline jumper last night?
I almost fell on the floor from shock after that one. Can you imagine how deadly Collier would have been over his career if he took and sometimes made that short corner?
and he took it without hesitation…
sweet stroke…
How about Brandt dribbling top of the key going right–his defender cut him off (not even a good reach-in but more of a body block), ball gets away, moreland gets the chippy at the end of the play which “had” resulted in a blown layup.
That 10 seconds resulted a non-call against AZ, a cheap call against Moreland, and two points at the line for Zona. At least a four point swing….
…the AZ player said to Gomis.
Nickname possibility: The Hernia Checker
this is the first time I’ve read a hoops thread all the way thru this year. It reconfirmed several things: (1) Basketball is a fundamentally flawed game because of the subjective nature of calling fouls, it also being the only sport where committing a foul on purpose is tactically advantageous; it’s the only game that rewards penalties; (2) OSU is perpetually tortured by this kind of refereeing because the AD presents a sad sack demeanor that almost invites this kind of abuse; (3) notwithstanding this observation, and to Angry’s point about tuning out sports (or, at least A sport),
it really does wonders for your peace of mind. Reading all this angst made me sympathetic to your plight.
That was some of the worst officiating I’ve seen in a while. Usually it evens out over the game but there were some just awful calls.
1. Brandt holding the ball and getting run over by the defender but the foul is on Brandt.
2. Brandt getting two full hands on the ball and getting called for a foul instead of a tie up.
3. Arizona clearly knocking the ball out of bounds and the refs say OSU knocked it out.
4. The obvious goaltending on Arizona that fortunately Moreland put back.
5. The foul call on Collier where he got all ball on the reach and then morphed into a technical on Gomis (The tech was the right call but it would not have happened had play not stopped).
The Beavs could have overcame this with better free throw shooting and without some dumb turnovers by Cooke. I think he’s not realizing how much the athleticism steps up at this level. He’s still playing like he’s going against HS players sometimes.
6. The walk called on Brandt which was nowhere near correct.
7. The up and down jump ball call on Berto which clearly left his hands due to the blocked shot then came down with him.
8. I can’t help Berto on his two charges. I would have called them too. But the one on Moreland was not correct or even close to correct. Jefferson did not have position or anything resembling it, and getting that call requires you come from off the ball or get in front of the ball, not just sliding from behind because you got beat.
9. The late goal-tend on a shot Collier took where he was fouled. It wasn’t going to go, but the rules don’t care. It was clearly still in the cylinder when Tarc grabbed it.
10. Hand checks and grabs on ball-handlers up top all game long… but worse in the second half.
11. Gomis making a sweet all ball/no body block on a Tarc gimme with no other bigs obscuring the view… only to be called for it.
12. Tarc grabbed and pulled Gomis to the ground on box-outs more than once.
13. There were only two uncalled walks I saw all game (plus the imanary one on Brandt and the obvious one on McConnell in the lane). One came really early when Tarc took four steps to get an and-one. The other was early in the second half… Tarc on the block again. That’s surprisingly very few walks in a game, let alone the very few (two) that were called.
I guess the bigger question that Robaminson needs asked at his PC next week is why are they still losing close games? You have 3 seniors on this team that play significant minutes. They’ve improved from 4 to 7 wins (possibly 8 if they win this weekend). They’ve swept the two worst teams in the conference for 4 of those wins and one has a first year coach, the other one that is going to get shit canned (USC and Wazzu). 3 home game wins against UCLA, Stanford and Oregon. I don’y know about you but I really don’t see much if any improvement. Still losing close games. I wonder where the problem lies?
Funny (or not) – the sltrib comments after the Cal-Utahgame refer to horrible Pac-12 refs and Utah won! (Krysto beating his old coach) Apparently the Utes won despite the referees’ best efforts to give the game to Cal.
As Shakespeare said while fishing with his reel, “Much ado about nothing. The dog ate my lunch. Like Tina Turner, the refs give us no respect. The PAC 12 ref shot JFK.”