poor rebounding in the first ten minutes. Nice adjustment for the last 10. NMSU is big, but they are sloooooooooooow. Used speed to our advangtage, attack the rim and dish for some easy baskets. Nice job beavs. Now finish them off early in the 2nd half.
That freshman Reid knows how to play defense that’s why he’ s getting minutes.
Burton needs to learn how to play hard all the time, he’s a terrible rebounder because he gets lazy.
What it really comes down to is the players on this team have some of the lowest basketball IQs ive ever seen. Part of it is Robinsons fault but another part is these players just can’t keep their heads when any pressure is applied. Luckily NMSU is terrible and were at home. If this was a road game we would be in big trouble.
Fade-away threes are always dumb shots but when your team is trying to run clock and put the game away? Just plain stupid. The next time down the floor coach Rob decides to let Joe rockhead Burton handle the ball which he promptly dribbles off his leg and out of bounds as he TRIES TO DRIVE TO THE HOOP FROM THE TOP OF THE KEY AS A 270 POUND MAN. The next time down we break the press and instead of pulling it out and running the clock down 30 more seconds, we decide to keep going 110 mph which leads to Eric Moreland attempting a BACKWARDS layup which of course doesn’t go in and is then knocked out of bounds by BURTON.
And that was just the last 2 minutes.
If you think that’s how teams are supposed to close out a game, I think it’s safe to say we won’t be seeing you roaming the sidelines anytime soon.
Right. Starks takes one fade away three under 2 minutes to go and that makes him a low basketball I.Q. player? He let Burton handle the ball cause Burton is a creator, I didn’t like the decision but I could somewhat understand the reasoning. Moreland made his lay-up more difficult, but I’m pretty sure every coach in America would want a layup in that situation, just didn’t fall. That’s not stupid, that’s called not making a layup. Burton was fighting for the rebound but didn’t come up with that. Doesn’t make them low basketball I.Q. players.
Funny how I never said that’s how I wanted them to close out the game, you can read my comment again. Of course I want them to close out the game better, but I’m not gonna call them low basketball I.Q. players cause they didn’t finish properly. They’ll learn from their mistakes and get better, IMO.
You don’t give the ball to a “creator” when you’re trying to run the clock out, you give it to you’re teams best ball handler to make sure you don’t turn the ball over, which is precisely what Burton did. This why I say it’s partly Coach Rob’s fault for giving it to Burton in the ball in the first place, and the other part is Starks not going to get the ball himself to make sure it doesn’t end up happening.
Regarding Starks, I’m not going to sit here and try to point out to you how many stupid shots he takes during a game when you don’t want to see them. You just like to pay attention to the positives and ignore the negatives. It’s OK, because I know that come Pac-12 play, all of these things will be magnified just like they were last year. I hope I’m wrong, but like I said before, I saw all of these things last year and saw what happened in conference play. This year I’m just not kidding myself, like you.
Okay, so you don’t want a chance at someone getting a good look while trying to put the team away, you want Starks to hold onto the ball and take a last second shot that you hate so much. Makes perfect sense.
I point out negatives plenty, but I don’t completely ignore positives to whine about everything that doesn’t go perfectly like yourself. You’re a fan who just wants to complain all the time.
Not ignoring the positives. Going into this season, I knew what happened last and tuned in this year to see if there were any signs that this years team has improved from last year. Through 2 games I see pretty much the exact same thing. Yes there are positives, including a 2-0 start, but there aren’t any NEW positives and the negatives are the same negatives as last year as well.
A new positive is that they’re playing better defense, which is what they needed last year. One of the same things as last year is that they’ll score plenty of points this year.
Perhaps. 62 against a team that went to the tourney last year is definitely acceptable. But this is a team that lost their top 4 scorers from last year and was playing on the road. So I don’t think this game was an accurate gauge of our defense. Then there’s Niagara dropping 83 against us in the first game. A poor defensive showing I think we can all agree. But it’s far too early to judge whether the defense has improved, gotten worse or stayed the same after just a few games. My main gripe is that it doesn’t look like we’ve progressed at all.
Ask yourself this: If you put on a game from last year and set it side by side with a game from this year, would you be able to tell that these games were a year apart? My answer is no, but maybe I’m just bitter about last year.
If you look at shooting percentage this year compared to last, things are better, although it’s only 2 games in. Obviously their man-to-man defense is much improved over last year, too. They seem to be bringing that additional mental element that good man-to-man requires. There hasn’t been much mention of Brandt in this thread, but he looks like he’s taken it up a notch with his intensity this year.
Gopher, stop using your same posts from three years ago! Wait, sorry….I guess a couple of years ago Burton actually lost games with stupid turnovers. You did say “almost”.
nice to see starks step up with a monster game – he and roberto going to have to pick up the slack for cunningham this year. even though collier had a miserable night, i do like his progress in court awareness and the guy is lights out around the basket. moreland will be NBA caliber when his OSU career is over, angus seems stiff as usual but serviceable. barton and burton are mediocre pac-12 talent at best, not sure why these guys continue to be favored by coach robinson……
Who are the Beavers gonna play off the bench instead of Barton? Need a guy that can handle the ball to give Roberto and Starks some rest. Don’t really have anybody else. He just needs to have some confidence in his shot. The shots are there from him to take.
Burton I would be alright with cutting back in minutes. He makes great passes but also makes too many mistakes and takes some bad shots as well as gets lazy on the boards. Would like to see Reid play some more at the 3. He’s a tenacious defender. I feel like Starks-Nelson-Reid-Collier-Brandt will be their best lineup. Has shooters, guys that can penetrate into the lane, guys who can score in the paint and play defense.
What’s given you the impression that Barton can handle the ball? He seems to dribble past half-court then pass it off to someone every time. Either that over he gets his dribble too far behind his body and he loses it out of bounds.
LMW could fill the same role as Barton if given the opportunity. Robbins too, although he seems better suited to be a scorer. I’d like to see what Robbins could do with some of Nelson’s minutes.
thats the problem, little depth all around and it shows with guys like burton and barton getting so many minutes. eric moreland is our best player IMO and if/when he matures on the O side of his game – will be a major force in the conference. i just hope coach robinson sees the same potential in him that i do. jury still out on coach robinson’s player development skills. my starting 5: starks, roberto, moreland, collier and angus.
Moreland needs to develop a 10-15 foot game. He could get his shot almost anytime he wanted. Burton also passes up wide open mid-range shots to do some funky spin move or a no look pass. Collier was developing a mid-range game last year. I’d rather have Burton off of the bench as a change up. If his “voodoo” his working then ride it for some minutes if he’s a turnover machine reduce his minutes. I think it’s a waste not starting Collier.
I also would like Collier starting but can understand the reasoning in bringing him off the bench. Collier is really the only guy off the bench that can really score at this stage. With Reid/LMW the scoring could improve, but right now Collier is the main scoring threat off the bench.
I almost agree with you. But Joe is a steadying force on defense right now. There will come a time when Devon will start. But Joe provides an immovable force in the middle who can take a couple fouls and set the mood for the game from the start.
Devon would start in place of Eric if there was a choice right now. But the feeling i get is that Coach Rob wants to see which direction a game proceeds. Devon comes in to make that direction a reality. I would be terrified as an opposing coach having to plan for Devon off the bench. Menzies targeted him, and the refs complied (have I mentioned that Kevin Brill really really sucks?). You’re looking at a starting line-up which is solid but BLAH. Add Devon to the mix… at some moment on the future… and that all changes.
That game plan will need to change as we get into league play. But if it wildly succeeds, then we may see it for quite a while.
You over-estimate Eric’s development. Take the small gains. He is making plays from outside zero inches. He’s added a spin move with a finger roll from about five feet. And he’s taking shots from outside zero inches. Neither of those conditions were true last year.
I just can’t believe he missed three shots. He’s now 9 for 12 on the season.
Am I the only one who thinks that Burton could actually be a consistently effective player if he lost 30 pounds or so? He wouldn’t lose that much bulk and he might actually be able to jump for a rebound and not have to rely on quirky hook shots from the 1950’s.
No you are not. Looks like he gained weight.
No other comments about that huge guy from NMS?
Really missed not seeing Jared. Another what-if for Beaver fans. God he was fun to watch.
He tried that losing weight and was actually less effective. His sophomore season he trimmed down, but still couldn’t really jump and was moved around quite a bit. Sadly, his bulk is a big part of his game. He is a nifty player, but what makes him “good” is also what makes him inconsistent. He is a bit of a high risk player, when it is going well – it is beautiful, but he is a turnover waiting to happen at any time.
I understand why they are going with Collier off of the bench, but I’m not sure he can be that type of player. I think he needs to get into the flow and he did not do that at all for this game. I guess the jury is out. I think Moreland is the high energy type that may be good to have off of the bench.
Roberto doesn’t get much of a leash from Coach. He is still very much a streaky player, hope he is able to turn the corner this year.
I was very impressed with Reid and his defense. He was very sound defensive player and hopefully with a bit of time will get some comfort offensively as well.
Counter to a lot of the comments above, I saw some improvements from last year and even from game 1 in this game. The guys looked more in control of themselves on defense and even on offense. We controlled the tempo of this game. Didn’t get mentally thrown by the refs calls and didn’t back down when the game was getting physical. I’m not saying that it was all roses, there is plenty of room for improvement and I’m not convinced that this is an NCAA team at this time. But, there are glimpses and I don’t think the loss of Jared is at all damning for this team.
We didn’t control pace. Menzies did that with his halftime adjustments. But we did shift our game to take his pace in stride. That was a really nice thing to watch. Two years ago, this team would have folded and given up the lead in the second half. This year looks like something nice in consistent play and hard work.
It looks like a bunch of guys who like football talking about hoops in here. What game were you guys watching?
beavsbeavsbeavs… you know nothing about the sport. Stop tooting out your backside. Sadly, i imagine you’re a hoops coach as well. Sadly because if that were the case your players will devolve until you PYHOOYA.
That was a technical game against a really good coach. Coach Rob could not control pace, but he could direct defense within the pace Menzies set. And it was a really really nice defensive game. Joe had his brainfarts, and Devon fouled out. Menzies targeted Devon and Berto, and Kevin Brill sucks more now than he did last year… which seems impossible. But Devon and Joe both worked the trenches to give the perimeter players space on either end. Watch the replay and look at the two of them battle through an army of arms and humanity. You’ll see what I mean.
And Ahmad was tight last night. I would have liked to see his trey drop more. But his penetration was spectacular.
Have they announced the game time for the Civil War?
Jack, I saw a team that did not have a step on the throat mentality almost lose a game that was in the bag. Starks was great last night, but he is a classic streak shooter. Who takes those shots when he is cold? He probably will, which is what worries me. This is a veteran team that should know how to close out a game. Liked the kid from GA. Gives us some strength and physical play. Saw a game at the Barn last Friday night and came more impressed. Was expecting the opposite. Robinson needs to Get-R Done this year. All his guys.
You saw nothing from Berto and Devon last night. Menzies planned that game perfectly as you point out. If those two are a non-factor, and if Eric’s size and athleticism is negated by the same on the other side, how will Ahmad respond?
I think we have an answer.
This team is more Hydra than the one-headed monster it was last year.
And I don’t get the knock on Barton. He played a really nice game. He’s not the type to fill up the stat columns. But he was apparent on all the plays he was in. The foul he took with the headlock was the epitome of his game at this point. He smartly stepped off the play to take the secondary action, and the brute who took him down had no opportunity to take the ball. Barton is a smart player who will only make us look smarter down the road.
If you want a comparison, think back to last year. Barton is very much like Brad Tinsley with more athleticism. Tinsley didn’t get his chance until his junior year. Barton is a child of attrition. He will be a force as an upperclassman.
I only hope he makes a difference this year. He was sought by many good NCAA coaches for a reason.
My problem with Challe is that when he comes into the game we are basically playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end since he is no threat to shoot the ball. He also isn’t a good enough ball handler to create shots for his teammates (the score keeper missed at least 2 Challe turnovers last night where he simply dribbled it out of bounds.)
Brand Tinsley was a much better play on a much better team. Tinsley played 30min a game, started 28, put up 11 pts and 3 ast, shot 41% from three as a FRESHMAN. How is that not getting a chance?
Challe averaged 1.7pts on 29% shooting his freshman year, turning the ball over more than he assisted.
After watching what Challe did as a freshman with international experience, I’d like to see if LMW could fill the exact same role for 10-15 minutes a game. If he can’t, then the team is in trouble this season.
I was speaking more to the “child of attrition” part. Challe doesn’t have to play every moment of every game like Tinsley did. If he did, he would put up numbers out of necessity.
And his soph production would have suffered the same way.
Challe is a smart player who will only get better. His game is invisible unless you watch him. And if you watch him, he’s not invisible.
Looks like Moreland worked on some O moves. Barton was a non-factor. Early last year he seemed like he was going to a great find. Hope he comes around.
Hope you are right. That one head was one hell of a player. I think I have a better vertical as a 51 yo white dude than Nelson does. He has underwhelmed.
BTW Jack, they put a new scoreboard, just like the one in Phil’s Palace in Eugene, and ribbon boards in The Barn. Very nice, except now we get the stupid kiss cam to deal with.
I forgot to post this. At the Purdue game the kiss cam targets a couple. As soon as the guy realizes they are on camera he pushes his female companions head into his lap. Never heard a
football stadium erupt like that. Very funny.
That’s just rude. I hope he proposed right after that to give the moment its true meaning.
Don’t knock Barton. He was a steady influence to the positive side when he was in. I haven’t looked, but I’m guessing his +/- was pretty good in a technical game.
Jack, I understand that you’re angry at me because my lips aren’t quite as firmly placed on Mr. Robinson’s balls as yours, but you never addressed anything that I stated. You simply called me an idiot and moved on. So if you wish to actually respond with some basketball insight, I’ll ask you the question again:
If you put on a game from last year and set it side by side with a game from this year, would you be able to tell that these games were a year apart?
Have at it champ, I’m interested in hearing your thoughts, not your insults.
so both of you guys have your lips on his balls, just one not as firmly as the other? poor Craig, must make it hard to coach a team with 2 dudes hanging off your sack.
I think you’re conflating my meager comments with the existence of winners. I would love to take that mantle, but I only deserve a label of sustainability.
But take it to the issue you think it should be… by all means. I’ll make fun of you too.
I wouldn’t say we’re “counting” on those guys. They are a role player and bench player at most on this team. Burton is replaceable if he starts getting too loose with his game as he often does. There are times where he’s the MVP on the floor for the Beavs and times when he’s the LVP, all in the same game. The leash just needs to be short with him. Barton is simply the backup point guard. He needs to be able to provide a break for Starks, but this team will live and die through Starks more than anybody.
Oregon State had some ground to make up in the recruiting battle for three-star safety Brandon Arnold (Encino, Calif./Crespi) going into his official visit two weeks ago. But the Beavers were able to generate enough momentum with Arnold on that trip that the 5-foot-11, 184-pound safety felt comfortable enough Monday to make a verbal commitment.
“I went in [to the visit] with an open mind and wanting to take everything in,” Arnold said. “I was set more toward Cal at the time. But after the official, it opened my eyes more toward Oregon State.”
Arnold said he didn’t think he would make a commitment this soon after the visit, but it built all last week and by this past Friday, he was considering which day to make the announcement. He said one last night of sleeping on it left him comfortable to make the phone call on Monday.
“We were very excited about it,” Arnold said of himself and the Oregon State coaches he spoke with over the phone. “They’re really happy for me and it was a good conversation.”
Arnold is another big pickup for an Oregon State program that has made an impact in recruiting Southern California this year. Of the Beavers’ 11 commitments, seven are from the region. He will play safety for the Beavers, and said he would be a fit at either free safety or strong safety.
Arnold added that he is unsure if he will still take an official visit to Cal in early December. He said his father still wants him to take it, but he’d like to make a decision on it in the next two weeks.
i’m talking about the best chances to get OSU hoops back to the big dance for the first time since’90 -(completely unacceptable to have this sort of drought from a school with our rich hoops history but thats for another argument) -and not for just having a nice season with an outside shot at the NIT. teams just don’t get there with the talent level and reliance upon guys like burton and barton in this conference IMO. they don’t pass the eye test, they don’t pass the stats test nor any other metric used to evaluate talent. this would be ok if they were 7th, 8th guys off the bench but they are not. we’ll see about their progress this year, i hope i’m wrong.
Go beavs……
OH MY GOD I Can’t waaai….
Anybody have a scouting report on New Mexico State?
http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/4348
for entertainment purposes…
OSU -9 total 157.5
Looking for a Beavs and the over here…
no line on Cal game next week-no doubt due to QB status. SC getting 4 points from UCLA? wow
Maybe a link to watch:
http://jets-fuel.blogspot.com/p/jet-3.html
Game is on ESPNU. Glad next 3 are on ESPN/ESPN2/ESPNU, no need for a stream for me.
Prediction: Beavers 90-71
Defense is looking a lot better
Only issue I’m seeing is the lazy rebounding. Joe Burton needs to come out of the game for a while if he’s not going to give any effort on the boards.
Loving this defense right now. New Mexico State is getting nothing easy. Really good on ball defense and Beavers are contesting every shot at the rim.
41-30 Beavers at the half. NMSU made 2 shots in the final 11:20 of first half and Beavers ended half on a 29-12 run.
poor rebounding in the first ten minutes. Nice adjustment for the last 10. NMSU is big, but they are sloooooooooooow. Used speed to our advangtage, attack the rim and dish for some easy baskets. Nice job beavs. Now finish them off early in the 2nd half.
Collier was dreadful tonight. Fouled out and was scoreless. Played some solid defense, but offensively he disappeared.
Starks has been great. 28 points tonight. Carrying the Beavers.
just joined in at the half, good to see the hoops team on the floor again, go beavs!
No halfcourt O. Starks only scoring threat. Nelson is no Jared. Starks going playground.
Starks is the only scoring threat when Collier is in foul trouble and Nelson has an off night.
Easily the worst officiating I’ve seen in a long time. Ridiculous
That freshman Reid knows how to play defense that’s why he’ s getting minutes.
Burton needs to learn how to play hard all the time, he’s a terrible rebounder because he gets lazy.
It’s a good thing NM ST can’t shoot ft’s or we lose.
If they made their free throws it is a different game and the Beavers wouldn’t be trying to run clock as much as they did and likely score more.
Dude from NM State is the biggest f’ing human I’ve ever seen. Makes Brandt look like a dwarf.
lol Burton
What it really comes down to is the players on this team have some of the lowest basketball IQs ive ever seen. Part of it is Robinsons fault but another part is these players just can’t keep their heads when any pressure is applied. Luckily NMSU is terrible and were at home. If this was a road game we would be in big trouble.
Agree. Team plays dumb.
NMSU isn’t terrible. If this is the team with anything close to the lowest basketball IQ’s you’ve ever seen, you haven’t seen a lot of basketball.
Fade-away threes are always dumb shots but when your team is trying to run clock and put the game away? Just plain stupid. The next time down the floor coach Rob decides to let Joe rockhead Burton handle the ball which he promptly dribbles off his leg and out of bounds as he TRIES TO DRIVE TO THE HOOP FROM THE TOP OF THE KEY AS A 270 POUND MAN. The next time down we break the press and instead of pulling it out and running the clock down 30 more seconds, we decide to keep going 110 mph which leads to Eric Moreland attempting a BACKWARDS layup which of course doesn’t go in and is then knocked out of bounds by BURTON.
And that was just the last 2 minutes.
If you think that’s how teams are supposed to close out a game, I think it’s safe to say we won’t be seeing you roaming the sidelines anytime soon.
Right. Starks takes one fade away three under 2 minutes to go and that makes him a low basketball I.Q. player? He let Burton handle the ball cause Burton is a creator, I didn’t like the decision but I could somewhat understand the reasoning. Moreland made his lay-up more difficult, but I’m pretty sure every coach in America would want a layup in that situation, just didn’t fall. That’s not stupid, that’s called not making a layup. Burton was fighting for the rebound but didn’t come up with that. Doesn’t make them low basketball I.Q. players.
Funny how I never said that’s how I wanted them to close out the game, you can read my comment again. Of course I want them to close out the game better, but I’m not gonna call them low basketball I.Q. players cause they didn’t finish properly. They’ll learn from their mistakes and get better, IMO.
You don’t give the ball to a “creator” when you’re trying to run the clock out, you give it to you’re teams best ball handler to make sure you don’t turn the ball over, which is precisely what Burton did. This why I say it’s partly Coach Rob’s fault for giving it to Burton in the ball in the first place, and the other part is Starks not going to get the ball himself to make sure it doesn’t end up happening.
Regarding Starks, I’m not going to sit here and try to point out to you how many stupid shots he takes during a game when you don’t want to see them. You just like to pay attention to the positives and ignore the negatives. It’s OK, because I know that come Pac-12 play, all of these things will be magnified just like they were last year. I hope I’m wrong, but like I said before, I saw all of these things last year and saw what happened in conference play. This year I’m just not kidding myself, like you.
Okay, so you don’t want a chance at someone getting a good look while trying to put the team away, you want Starks to hold onto the ball and take a last second shot that you hate so much. Makes perfect sense.
I point out negatives plenty, but I don’t completely ignore positives to whine about everything that doesn’t go perfectly like yourself. You’re a fan who just wants to complain all the time.
Not ignoring the positives. Going into this season, I knew what happened last and tuned in this year to see if there were any signs that this years team has improved from last year. Through 2 games I see pretty much the exact same thing. Yes there are positives, including a 2-0 start, but there aren’t any NEW positives and the negatives are the same negatives as last year as well.
A new positive is that they’re playing better defense, which is what they needed last year. One of the same things as last year is that they’ll score plenty of points this year.
Perhaps. 62 against a team that went to the tourney last year is definitely acceptable. But this is a team that lost their top 4 scorers from last year and was playing on the road. So I don’t think this game was an accurate gauge of our defense. Then there’s Niagara dropping 83 against us in the first game. A poor defensive showing I think we can all agree. But it’s far too early to judge whether the defense has improved, gotten worse or stayed the same after just a few games. My main gripe is that it doesn’t look like we’ve progressed at all.
Ask yourself this: If you put on a game from last year and set it side by side with a game from this year, would you be able to tell that these games were a year apart? My answer is no, but maybe I’m just bitter about last year.
If you look at shooting percentage this year compared to last, things are better, although it’s only 2 games in. Obviously their man-to-man defense is much improved over last year, too. They seem to be bringing that additional mental element that good man-to-man requires. There hasn’t been much mention of Brandt in this thread, but he looks like he’s taken it up a notch with his intensity this year.
Burton almost loses game with stupid turnover.
That’s his go-to move!
Gopher, stop using your same posts from three years ago! Wait, sorry….I guess a couple of years ago Burton actually lost games with stupid turnovers. You did say “almost”.
Groundhog Day.
nice to see starks step up with a monster game – he and roberto going to have to pick up the slack for cunningham this year. even though collier had a miserable night, i do like his progress in court awareness and the guy is lights out around the basket. moreland will be NBA caliber when his OSU career is over, angus seems stiff as usual but serviceable. barton and burton are mediocre pac-12 talent at best, not sure why these guys continue to be favored by coach robinson……
Who are the Beavers gonna play off the bench instead of Barton? Need a guy that can handle the ball to give Roberto and Starks some rest. Don’t really have anybody else. He just needs to have some confidence in his shot. The shots are there from him to take.
Burton I would be alright with cutting back in minutes. He makes great passes but also makes too many mistakes and takes some bad shots as well as gets lazy on the boards. Would like to see Reid play some more at the 3. He’s a tenacious defender. I feel like Starks-Nelson-Reid-Collier-Brandt will be their best lineup. Has shooters, guys that can penetrate into the lane, guys who can score in the paint and play defense.
What’s given you the impression that Barton can handle the ball? He seems to dribble past half-court then pass it off to someone every time. Either that over he gets his dribble too far behind his body and he loses it out of bounds.
LMW could fill the same role as Barton if given the opportunity. Robbins too, although he seems better suited to be a scorer. I’d like to see what Robbins could do with some of Nelson’s minutes.
thats the problem, little depth all around and it shows with guys like burton and barton getting so many minutes. eric moreland is our best player IMO and if/when he matures on the O side of his game – will be a major force in the conference. i just hope coach robinson sees the same potential in him that i do. jury still out on coach robinson’s player development skills. my starting 5: starks, roberto, moreland, collier and angus.
Burton needs to stop pouting after every mistake he makes.
Someone needs to step up and take Challe Barton’s minutes away from him, a point guard who can’t handle the ball is not a weapon. Robbins? LMW?
Nelson still turns the ball over way too much by getting into the lane and then panicking. Drive and dish dude.
The Beavs will be a borderline NIT team until they can get something out of Robbins and LMW. Reid looks like he will be a very solid player.
As long as the offense continues to go through Burton, we won’t be playing any postseason ball that’s for sure.
Moreland needs to develop a 10-15 foot game. He could get his shot almost anytime he wanted. Burton also passes up wide open mid-range shots to do some funky spin move or a no look pass. Collier was developing a mid-range game last year. I’d rather have Burton off of the bench as a change up. If his “voodoo” his working then ride it for some minutes if he’s a turnover machine reduce his minutes. I think it’s a waste not starting Collier.
I also would like Collier starting but can understand the reasoning in bringing him off the bench. Collier is really the only guy off the bench that can really score at this stage. With Reid/LMW the scoring could improve, but right now Collier is the main scoring threat off the bench.
I almost agree with you. But Joe is a steadying force on defense right now. There will come a time when Devon will start. But Joe provides an immovable force in the middle who can take a couple fouls and set the mood for the game from the start.
Devon would start in place of Eric if there was a choice right now. But the feeling i get is that Coach Rob wants to see which direction a game proceeds. Devon comes in to make that direction a reality. I would be terrified as an opposing coach having to plan for Devon off the bench. Menzies targeted him, and the refs complied (have I mentioned that Kevin Brill really really sucks?). You’re looking at a starting line-up which is solid but BLAH. Add Devon to the mix… at some moment on the future… and that all changes.
That game plan will need to change as we get into league play. But if it wildly succeeds, then we may see it for quite a while.
You over-estimate Eric’s development. Take the small gains. He is making plays from outside zero inches. He’s added a spin move with a finger roll from about five feet. And he’s taking shots from outside zero inches. Neither of those conditions were true last year.
I just can’t believe he missed three shots. He’s now 9 for 12 on the season.
Am I the only one who thinks that Burton could actually be a consistently effective player if he lost 30 pounds or so? He wouldn’t lose that much bulk and he might actually be able to jump for a rebound and not have to rely on quirky hook shots from the 1950’s.
No you are not. Looks like he gained weight.
No other comments about that huge guy from NMS?
Really missed not seeing Jared. Another what-if for Beaver fans. God he was fun to watch.
He tried that losing weight and was actually less effective. His sophomore season he trimmed down, but still couldn’t really jump and was moved around quite a bit. Sadly, his bulk is a big part of his game. He is a nifty player, but what makes him “good” is also what makes him inconsistent. He is a bit of a high risk player, when it is going well – it is beautiful, but he is a turnover waiting to happen at any time.
I understand why they are going with Collier off of the bench, but I’m not sure he can be that type of player. I think he needs to get into the flow and he did not do that at all for this game. I guess the jury is out. I think Moreland is the high energy type that may be good to have off of the bench.
Roberto doesn’t get much of a leash from Coach. He is still very much a streaky player, hope he is able to turn the corner this year.
I was very impressed with Reid and his defense. He was very sound defensive player and hopefully with a bit of time will get some comfort offensively as well.
Counter to a lot of the comments above, I saw some improvements from last year and even from game 1 in this game. The guys looked more in control of themselves on defense and even on offense. We controlled the tempo of this game. Didn’t get mentally thrown by the refs calls and didn’t back down when the game was getting physical. I’m not saying that it was all roses, there is plenty of room for improvement and I’m not convinced that this is an NCAA team at this time. But, there are glimpses and I don’t think the loss of Jared is at all damning for this team.
We didn’t control pace. Menzies did that with his halftime adjustments. But we did shift our game to take his pace in stride. That was a really nice thing to watch. Two years ago, this team would have folded and given up the lead in the second half. This year looks like something nice in consistent play and hard work.
Holy crap.
It looks like a bunch of guys who like football talking about hoops in here. What game were you guys watching?
beavsbeavsbeavs… you know nothing about the sport. Stop tooting out your backside. Sadly, i imagine you’re a hoops coach as well. Sadly because if that were the case your players will devolve until you PYHOOYA.
That was a technical game against a really good coach. Coach Rob could not control pace, but he could direct defense within the pace Menzies set. And it was a really really nice defensive game. Joe had his brainfarts, and Devon fouled out. Menzies targeted Devon and Berto, and Kevin Brill sucks more now than he did last year… which seems impossible. But Devon and Joe both worked the trenches to give the perimeter players space on either end. Watch the replay and look at the two of them battle through an army of arms and humanity. You’ll see what I mean.
And Ahmad was tight last night. I would have liked to see his trey drop more. But his penetration was spectacular.
Have they announced the game time for the Civil War?
Jack, I saw a team that did not have a step on the throat mentality almost lose a game that was in the bag. Starks was great last night, but he is a classic streak shooter. Who takes those shots when he is cold? He probably will, which is what worries me. This is a veteran team that should know how to close out a game. Liked the kid from GA. Gives us some strength and physical play. Saw a game at the Barn last Friday night and came more impressed. Was expecting the opposite. Robinson needs to Get-R Done this year. All his guys.
You saw nothing from Berto and Devon last night. Menzies planned that game perfectly as you point out. If those two are a non-factor, and if Eric’s size and athleticism is negated by the same on the other side, how will Ahmad respond?
I think we have an answer.
This team is more Hydra than the one-headed monster it was last year.
And I don’t get the knock on Barton. He played a really nice game. He’s not the type to fill up the stat columns. But he was apparent on all the plays he was in. The foul he took with the headlock was the epitome of his game at this point. He smartly stepped off the play to take the secondary action, and the brute who took him down had no opportunity to take the ball. Barton is a smart player who will only make us look smarter down the road.
If you want a comparison, think back to last year. Barton is very much like Brad Tinsley with more athleticism. Tinsley didn’t get his chance until his junior year. Barton is a child of attrition. He will be a force as an upperclassman.
I only hope he makes a difference this year. He was sought by many good NCAA coaches for a reason.
My problem with Challe is that when he comes into the game we are basically playing 4 on 5 on the offensive end since he is no threat to shoot the ball. He also isn’t a good enough ball handler to create shots for his teammates (the score keeper missed at least 2 Challe turnovers last night where he simply dribbled it out of bounds.)
Brand Tinsley was a much better play on a much better team. Tinsley played 30min a game, started 28, put up 11 pts and 3 ast, shot 41% from three as a FRESHMAN. How is that not getting a chance?
Challe averaged 1.7pts on 29% shooting his freshman year, turning the ball over more than he assisted.
After watching what Challe did as a freshman with international experience, I’d like to see if LMW could fill the exact same role for 10-15 minutes a game. If he can’t, then the team is in trouble this season.
I was speaking more to the “child of attrition” part. Challe doesn’t have to play every moment of every game like Tinsley did. If he did, he would put up numbers out of necessity.
And his soph production would have suffered the same way.
Challe is a smart player who will only get better. His game is invisible unless you watch him. And if you watch him, he’s not invisible.
Looks like Moreland worked on some O moves. Barton was a non-factor. Early last year he seemed like he was going to a great find. Hope he comes around.
Hope you are right. That one head was one hell of a player. I think I have a better vertical as a 51 yo white dude than Nelson does. He has underwhelmed.
BTW Jack, they put a new scoreboard, just like the one in Phil’s Palace in Eugene, and ribbon boards in The Barn. Very nice, except now we get the stupid kiss cam to deal with.
I forgot to post this. At the Purdue game the kiss cam targets a couple. As soon as the guy realizes they are on camera he pushes his female companions head into his lap. Never heard a
football stadium erupt like that. Very funny.
That’s just rude. I hope he proposed right after that to give the moment its true meaning.
Don’t knock Barton. He was a steady influence to the positive side when he was in. I haven’t looked, but I’m guessing his +/- was pretty good in a technical game.
They were in halloween costumes. He was proposing something.
Jack, I understand that you’re angry at me because my lips aren’t quite as firmly placed on Mr. Robinson’s balls as yours, but you never addressed anything that I stated. You simply called me an idiot and moved on. So if you wish to actually respond with some basketball insight, I’ll ask you the question again:
If you put on a game from last year and set it side by side with a game from this year, would you be able to tell that these games were a year apart?
Have at it champ, I’m interested in hearing your thoughts, not your insults.
Ahhhh….
Your response was so on point and filled with so many stats that I was just overwhelmed with your greatness.
Stop! Oh please stop!
I can’t live knowing someone so awesome is thinking I’m wrong.
I fully expect for you to ask for Coach Rob’s birth certificate next.
You are awesome in that way.
Heh heh… I do fully expect your negative rating on my comments.
Stupid is as stupid does.
so both of you guys have your lips on his balls, just one not as firmly as the other? poor Craig, must make it hard to coach a team with 2 dudes hanging off your sack.
Touche…
I make sure the “equipment manager” deflates the balls to my satisfaction. ;)
I will never look at the term “equipment manager” the same again.
I will never look at Craig Robinson the same again. By the way, I thought I saw you guys “hanging out” at the President Obama election celebration.
Why? I wasn’t there, and I didn’t vote for him.
I think you’re conflating my meager comments with the existence of winners. I would love to take that mantle, but I only deserve a label of sustainability.
But take it to the issue you think it should be… by all means. I’ll make fun of you too.
“Why? I wasn’t there, and I didn’t vote for him”
maybe i wasn’t clear enough. I though I saw you guys at the President Obama election celebration, hanging off Craig Robinson’s testicles by your lips.
You are correct. You weren’t clear.
I hope clarity makes you feel better.
Waitnig for anything here.
The only thing I’ll say is if we are counting on Barton and Burton we are not a NCAA tournament team.
I wouldn’t say we’re “counting” on those guys. They are a role player and bench player at most on this team. Burton is replaceable if he starts getting too loose with his game as he often does. There are times where he’s the MVP on the floor for the Beavs and times when he’s the LVP, all in the same game. The leash just needs to be short with him. Barton is simply the backup point guard. He needs to be able to provide a break for Starks, but this team will live and die through Starks more than anybody.
Ok?
great day to be a beaver? Just read:
http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/ncfrecruiting/on-the-trail/post?id=23085
can you paste the whole article in here? I’m not an insider so can only read first few paragraphs
Oregon State had some ground to make up in the recruiting battle for three-star safety Brandon Arnold (Encino, Calif./Crespi) going into his official visit two weeks ago. But the Beavers were able to generate enough momentum with Arnold on that trip that the 5-foot-11, 184-pound safety felt comfortable enough Monday to make a verbal commitment.
“I went in [to the visit] with an open mind and wanting to take everything in,” Arnold said. “I was set more toward Cal at the time. But after the official, it opened my eyes more toward Oregon State.”
Arnold said he didn’t think he would make a commitment this soon after the visit, but it built all last week and by this past Friday, he was considering which day to make the announcement. He said one last night of sleeping on it left him comfortable to make the phone call on Monday.
“We were very excited about it,” Arnold said of himself and the Oregon State coaches he spoke with over the phone. “They’re really happy for me and it was a good conversation.”
Arnold is another big pickup for an Oregon State program that has made an impact in recruiting Southern California this year. Of the Beavers’ 11 commitments, seven are from the region. He will play safety for the Beavers, and said he would be a fit at either free safety or strong safety.
Arnold added that he is unsure if he will still take an official visit to Cal in early December. He said his father still wants him to take it, but he’d like to make a decision on it in the next two weeks.
thanks for posting
Great. Need some DB’s. Now about that play caliing…………
Highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sPOoCKm4nI
Starks named pac-12 player of the week
http://www.osubeavers.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/111212aab.html
He should be. He was pretty spectacular last night.
better than that:
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/12/college-hoops-week-in-review-player-of-the-week-ahmad-starks/related/
Holy jumpin’ up and down Martha!
OSU gets some love from the national press?
I’d rather have it in March, but now is as good a time as any.
…that’s what she said…
Hey………that’s my line. “I approve this message.”
I’m a real detective..
Did you know that Micah Hatfield (WR for us) is Tinker Hatfield’s son and is one of Nike’s lead designers and the guy rebranding us?
*nephew
i’m talking about the best chances to get OSU hoops back to the big dance for the first time since’90 -(completely unacceptable to have this sort of drought from a school with our rich hoops history but thats for another argument) -and not for just having a nice season with an outside shot at the NIT. teams just don’t get there with the talent level and reliance upon guys like burton and barton in this conference IMO. they don’t pass the eye test, they don’t pass the stats test nor any other metric used to evaluate talent. this would be ok if they were 7th, 8th guys off the bench but they are not. we’ll see about their progress this year, i hope i’m wrong.
You’re wrong. You’re also an idiot for even thinking that. Jack told me so.
damn. Gonzaga is ripping west vagina a new one. Either Gonzaga is better than their #19 ranking or west vagina is not very good.