I do not want to see Mike Riley fired. I don't think Decarolis wants to fire Riley, and I don't think most fans want to see Riley fired.
He has done a good job in exhuming the program, and he is an honorable guy who we all admire as a human being.
That makes for an awkward situation for everyone involved. On one hand, Riley is a person fans love, but on the other hand, even the most ardent supporters are realizing his coaching limitations. Today's loss hauled an elephant into the room. A big mamma who isn't leaving anytime soon. This problem is going to get worse as the season progresses. I don't want to see a good person getting hated on or disrespected.
It's why Riley should spare everyone the awkwardness by jumping ahead of the inevitable and retiring. Riley claims to love OSU. If that is true, he should realize he's taken OSU as far as he can, and it's time to pass the baton.
There are fans who will say this is an overreaction to a bad loss. But, I see this conclusion as the result of a bigger trend. I don't need to rehash all the bad losses, the lack of passion, etc. We all know the story.
Let's relate this to something people understand more than coaching: money. There are two terms in the stock market called "support" and "resistance". Resistance refers to the point where a stock lacks buyers. For example, say Apple is trading at $399 a share, but the psychological barrier of $400 scares off investors. This might be a point of resistance. Sometimes resistance is at a more random price with no clear cause other than investors agreeing, "This is the most we are willing to pay." Support, on the other hand, is the opposite of resistance. Support refers to the point where buyers step in and say, "This is cheap, the stock should not go lower than this price." Support and resistance tell a trader if he is buying too high or selling too low.
Well, this concept can be related to Mike Riley. Riley's support level is 5 wins per season, and his resistance is 9 wins. Expecting Riley to break out of that range and go to a BCS/Rose Bowl would be like a trader expecting Phillip Morris to break out of the 60 range and trade at Apple-esque valuations. That is just not going to happen without several major growth catalysts.
See where this is going? We know what Riley is, and there is no growth. So, why hold? The growth story is over. Keeping with the stock analogy, we're in the dividend years. Those are okay times for equities since an investor can still beat inflation, but when it comes to modern college football, slow growth equals lost jobs. In fact, I'd argue Riley is actually regressing, and thus has no value other than as a respectable face for a tier two franchise.
What I am describing is everyone's career arc. Ricky Henderson was once the fastest man. Babe Ruth was once the strongest. Bill Gates was once the most innovative. You and I are the working class, but one day our skills will be dated, too.
Time is cruel, even to good people.
Mike should realize he's hovering near his support level and without a catalyst that usually legs down. Even further, that even his resistance level is no longer good enough. There's a young generation that, due to Riley's (moderate) success, expects more. There is an irony in success. Think about it: take Led Zeppelin's worst record. It's still better than 99% of music. But harsh criticisms via high expectations make them victims of their own success. Do well and people will expect better (or at least equally well).
I am not overreacting. I am not saying Riley needs to retire today. But if this season continues down its current path, Riley needs to step aside in order to spare the fans and AD awkwardness while also preserving his dignity–the trait for which he's most known.
Fire Banker.
The tone is set well above Banker’s level.
Brennen is an aggressive WR coach, but were the WRs aggressive/great today? No. The big problem is the mental game…the psychology at the top. It’s backwards or non-existent.
Banker sucks, but he’s a minor player and a potential scapegoat.
Terrific initial post. Angry – not, but clearly on target.
For me, this season is officially over… Riley’s interview going into halftime he said the offensive line was getting confused by the other team cuz they weren’t running straight at them. (stunts)
For years I have defended Riley and staff only because they are the coaches of the beavers. If the beavs had another losing season and actually won this game, I would agree that Riley should step down. However, after this kind of performance, against a division 2 team, this is grounds for termination. The play calling on the final drive in regulation was below pop warner status. 2nd and 2 and they spike it with over a minute. Also, not centering the ball on the field to set up an easier field goal…
I found it ironic that Castro M recovered a fumble and blocked the field goal… I can see why Riley played him now. Riley was that desperate. The beavs fielded a team so poor and soft. No passion (again), poor clock management (again), horrible line play (again), terrible DB scheme (again) which caused p.i.
After the game, I wasn’t even that mad. Just was really obvious to me that it’s time for a new coach. Of course, any kindergartner could figure that out…
The play calling was horrible on 3 rd down!! Lateral plays do not get u yards. Angry, what did u think of Mannion’s play?
I thought he looked good.
There were times last year I thought Katz looked good, too, though. Until a guy does it over and over (and most importantly, in the clutch) I am not going to heap praise.
I see a lot of small issues that signify this team has no attention to detail. That is a coaching issue. It’s never been more clear to me.
Do you guys think that if we don’t make a bowl and win 2-3 games that Bob D. will finally get the hint to fire Riley, or at least Langsdork and Banker? I agree with you Angry, I would love to see Mike Leach come into OSU, I’m just struggling too believe that happening. It just pains me to see Oregon rise to the top and OSU just left in the dust…
Wow I see a lot of over reacting to one terrible loss and a sub par year last year (would have been a lot different if James was not hurt and a couple of bounces went there way it would have been at least an 8 win team). This is Oregon St., they are going to struggle sometimes ( lack of resources and not a lot of great recruits in state). I see programs like Clemson, South Carolina, UCLA, and Texas A&M not making it to BCS bowl game recently and not having as much sucess as OSU. These programs are in more fertile recruiting areas and have better resources.
There is a reason coach Riley got a chance in the NFL and had programs such as USC, Alabama, and ASU were coming after him. The reason is because he is a great coach. People see what OSU used to be and what they are now and say he must be good.
As for Mike Leech, how was what he was doing at Texas Tech any better than what Riley is doing at OSU? They never made a BCS bowl game, came close once or twice. Yeah they had some big wins but has OSU had more. He also gets the benefit of recruiting in Texas. I do think Riley is a little slow to make changes, but he did fire a coach and trainer that needed to go this year. I do get frustrated with the coordinators. That being said I what Riley is and has done gives OSU a chance to builds it program where it can succed long term and not go back to what it was the 30-40 years before he came to OSU.
Also, one last point if OSU hired another coach. It would probably have to be a younger assisatant coach. If that coach did good, he would be persued by bigger name schools and he would leave. The only reason Riley is still at OSU is becuase he is from Corvalis.
He’s not the same Riley anymore. in 1998 he was young and ambitious. He was the one who turned the program around. He was an aggressive head coach in all areas, not the least of which was recruiting. He recruited all those players Erickson took to the Fiesta Bowl in 2000-01, the team many said was the # 1 team in the country that year. Where is that Riley now? Angry is right, he has psychologically checked out. Maybe he needed to be aspiring towards that big NFL opportunity. Now that he has a lifetime contract he isn’t aspiring towards anything meaningful anymore. He’s become complacent. Actually, it’s understandable if you think about it.
I think this post is a bit premature. Secondary play was awful and Katz should have been pulled earlier. Let’s judge Riley post UCLA – I think a ton of improvement will be made.
I thought we well against the run!! But we couldn’t stop them for shit on the pass. Should gone to a nickle or dime. Did we blitz them once? The hightlight of the game was having my 6 yr old daughter by my side the whole game. She kept saying were going to win dad, if we can just make the kick we will win.
They did well against a FCS team that does not run the ball to begin with. Not much of a measuring stick yet. Let’s see if they keep Wisconsin under 300 yards first.
At least Oregon stinks, too.
Chipster does not look like much of a genius against the elite of the SEC.
Apparently the Jumbotron is still showing Randy the Logger and Beaver Biceps.
Why are we so lame?
Same thing with fans smiling and mugging for the camera when the team is down 21-6 and facing a historic Riley era loss.
What I didn’t get was why didn’t the students/fans from the far side move down to the Valley Football Center side, where the OT was being played? There were a bunch of empty seats down there, and maybe they would have made a difference during OT, a stretch probably, but do you get what a mean?
You can’t get to that endzone from the west stands.
Bigger question is why did we select that side of the field. You always go for the student section aide. Obviously our captains are not very smart.
I didn’t like how we didn’t go for the touchdown in regulation, I know it was a short field goal, but they had the momentum and were pushing the defense back on their heels, yet Riley chose to spike the ball twice and run the clock down. The guy next to me kept saying Serna, and maybe he jinxed it, but that is why you attack and if you get a touchdown they get the ball with 30 or 40 seconds to go the whole field just to tie. I don’t understand his time managment at times (Ucla last year, and others). The “killer” instinct isn’t prevailent in this program. I agree I don’t think Riley will ever take the program to the “next” level. I think he is serviceable, and in the old Pac10 that was good enough. But now with the Pac12 err 16, with the money available you have to do something to keep up.
Three guarantees in life; Death, Taxes, and Riley loses 2 in Sept.
Riley may have reached his ceiling and is on a downturn. But he calls the shots. He loves what he does. He works with friends, helps kids grow and mature so they can be productive citizens. And he gets paid well, not in coaching standards, but in everyone else’s perspective. He has no worries about his job for the almost decade. OSU can’t afford to buy him out and he isn’t leaving. I have seen through his interviews that he kind of distances himself from the team. “I’m still waiting to what their identity will be this season”. Not our identity. So the team “players” lost, he didn’t. Maybe if we had new OC & DC? He may see himself as the next Joe Paterno ( on longevity ).
I have a question, who is going to start at QB in Madison? Katz lost 1st half 14 – 3 and Mannion won the 2nd half by 10.
I wish Mannion would start but I think Katz deserves one final quarter and that should determine whether or not he be benched for the season. I want to see him prove himself after his atrocious start.
a bit premature
Well, like I said, not today but the end of the season.
We’re 10 years in so the premature argument doesn’t have too much merit.
I think people are afraid the next coach could be worse. That is true, but personally I’d rather find out than assume. I think being average is the worst place to be. There is comedy is feebleness and glory in greatness. There is only agony in being average.
Did you make those last two sentences up or is that a quote because it was beautiful.
I made it up. Haha.
Would make a nice slogan for the site.
Agreed, that should be replace your “critical view of osu athletics”.
I think the team is 5-10 in their last 15 games, that’s a 33% winning percentage. There comes a point when every head coach losses their effectiveness and either retires or moves on. Riley is no Joe Pa, but he probably gets this year and next to turn things around. When I lived in Salt Lake no one thought Ron McBride would every get canned, but a new AD had a vision for what Utah football could become and it wasn’t just lower tiered bowl games. McBride was standing in the way. McBride did not get the hint to resign and it wasn’t pretty, but you can’t argue with post McBride results.
Excellent point. I don’t think the winning percentage is going to improve much this year. I doubt we win a game until sometime in October. I don’t think there is a number of losses that would automatically result in Riley being gone this year. Perhaps not even next year. I think that Bobby D’s ridiculous contract extension for Riley until 2019 was possibly the dumbest thing ever in the history of athletics. It’s not like Riley had been here 20 years and had won a couple of conference championships and even a national championship. OSU is in a tough financial position and that stupid contract is going to kill us. We can’t afford to get rid of Riley and he won’t leave until he’s told his services are no longer required. I think Riley knows that he’s in some warm waters because he finally made some coaching changes, albeit small-scale, this last year. Parting with your O-coordinator and D-coordinator though is a big deal. I wonder if the athletic department will put some more pressure on Riley to bring in some significant new blood on both sides of the ball to reinvigorate this team. We can’t afford to fire him, but maybe new coordinators will help? In the end, there is going to be a lot of money lost not only to the university, but to the city of Corvallis if this program continues to fail. There really is no good situation for Bobby D right now but to sit tight and pray to the Almighty that someone replenishes Riley’s lot of pixie dust.
It may take a new AD to shake things up if Riley is stubborn and won’t retire. I wounder what would happen if they actually go 0-12? He would have to be let go, right?
“Utah was a soft program, an underachieving program and a program that was going nowhere. Their expectations weren’t that high. When they hired me they said, ‘Well, if you don’t embarrass us against BYU, and be in about the middle of the league, and be respectable you can stay here as long as you want.’ The bar was low. The expectations were that they just didn’t want to get embarrassed on Saturday.”
–Ron McBride
Sorry meant to plus one. Bad click.
Chris Hill changed that expectation, didn’t he?
Riley’s buyout is too much for OSU to fire him. So fans should accpet this and hope for a turnaround or that Riley does retire. Unfortunately, I can’t see either happening and thus a very mediocre season will follow.
Can’t we just petition the OC and the DC to resign? How many signatures do we need?
Riley is the biggest problem. Teams take on the personality of the head coach and that will always be inadequate with Riley. The DC and OC are not good either but quickest fix is get a new head coach and have them bring in their guys. Losing to Sac St shows Riley is nothing special AT ALL. He is below average and getting worse since his long term deal which was also a colossal mistake by the AD. BDC and Riley have tied ship together and they all should go down. May take a 3 win seaosn for that but if Riley does not have us in a bowl this year he should be gone.
One last move for Riley (unless he finally gets a fire in his pants and starts to coach) is a radical change in coaching staff. Bellotti did it with the (fat, arrogant, gender neutral, testy} Chipster–well, I wouldn’t want to repeat that exactly but it is what UCLA and ASU are trying this year.
I think one more losing season and Riley is gone or OSU football is 1982.
Riley has done a lot for the program, but at what point will folks stop hoping for what clearly will never happen? Riley’s teams are never ready for the start of the season. I see no other logical conclusion than the coaching staff isn’t getting it done. I find it truly hard to believe that the Beavers don’t have better players at most of the positions on the field when compared to Sac St. If they do, since we lost, that’s on the coaches. If we don’t, then, that as well is on the coaches. Riley has done what he can for this program, but I think we’ve seen the ceiling. We are now heading back down towards the floor. I cannot see how this team has any hope when Katz plays as pathetic as he did today. There is no excuse for that. There is no excuse for the poor O-line play. There is no excuse for the DBs play. With this coaching staff, no OSU DB will ever make a decent play on a pass. They are trained so poorly, I think their technique may actually be worse once leaving the program. I, for one, would love to get a new coaching staff from top to bottom in here that can take this talent and do something with it. Coaching changes are always dangerous though because you don’t know what you might be getting. With a coaching change, we could end up like Colorado did with Hawkins, whom I’m sure they thought was the real deal.
It explains why the Beavers never land elite CBs despite always having playing time to offer.
Its too bad college ball isn’t like the pros. We’d be in line for a top draft pick next year. Instead its the opposite, we’re probably going to lose recruits now.
excellent point
Don’t forget, Mack Brown made some significant changes coordinator changes this offseason; I don’t imagine it was easy, but he did it.
Heard Beav radio team talking about how the DB’s are only taught to look for the ball “if they have the outside and/or leading shoulder.” It was obviously something that everyone one was talking about, so they tried to kind of defend it. BTW, Embarrassment continued after the final plays, as a a caller asked if Mike Parker ” was gonna pay for that napkin he ate.”
Meanwhile, UO radio team was saying “Credit LSU. They earned. But they didn’t really earn it, the Ducks gave them too many turnovers and LSU had a short field. LSU caused most of the turnovers, so you have to give them some credit there….” I hate it when announcers talk as if forced turnovers are gifts.
If Riley can’t bring in a couple of coordinators to balance out his demeanor with more fire, inspiration, game planning and adjustments, we’ve see his best and its indeed time to move on.
This thing with the CBs has been an issue for at least 6-8 years now. I don’t remember the last CB that I thought actually did what they were supposed to do. I watched the Boise State-Georgia game tonight and just shook my head everytime I saw a CB looking for the ball the same time the receiver was and either pick it off or knock it away. Who is teaching this ridiculous technique? Our CBs were doing it before Keith Heyward got here. I remember him as a starting CB on our team and he never did anything that stupid. Now he is teaching our CBs to do the very thing they shouldn’t do? If he didn’t practice it as a player and our players were doing it before he became the DBs coach, then is it Banker that demands that approach?
Yes, it’s a Banker thing. And I remember our crowd screaming about it when Jared Zabransky was tossing fade after fade to Nenee, and our CB’s were just flailing hopelessly after each ball.
Thank (your deity here) for Mike Hass and a superb performance which would result in one TD being called back according to the new NCAA rules (and did get 15 on the ensuing KO that day).
As for UO, they looked really bad. Their O-line looked like it always has, but they were getting called for all the sloppy shit they do. Their defense looked as small and weak as they always have been, but their offense wasn’t putting points on the board, forcing the opposition to take chances. And the forced TO’s are going to be attempted by everyone Nikegon plays. It just happens that DA Thomas likes to run like a chicken with fat wings, and Kenyon Barner likes to catch punts within his own ten while running toward his goal line.
Tough loss – is it too late to buy out Nichols State? As far as Riles, we would be insane to get rid of him. Does anybody remember the 28 years prior to his arrival or the fact that we were playing for the Rose Bowl less than 2 years ago? The fact is, you are not going to find anyone with a better record who wants to coach in Corvallis and actually does things the right way. Leach? It would be like Erickson all over again – one step ahead of probation and a bunch of thugs that you feel ashamed to root for.
Obviously by the end of last season CR knew he had a talent problem, and that is probably the reason for the staff shakeups as well as the recommittment to recruiting. At the same time, I think the freshman played today because Coach has decided to sort of blow things up and start over with the younger (and hopefully more talented) players. Unfortunately, its going to take time for these players to mature and get the program back up to speed.
PS If anybody is interested, the San Francisco Chronicle named Riley the best coach in the conference (again) in their annual preseason edition.
I would think Riley is kind of responsible for his “talent problem”, right? I know about the past, but regression should not be accepted for very long. Also, I think you will find lots of talented assistants who would jump at the chance to coach in the P-12 in addition to some “names” that are out there.. I also don’t remember Erickson having any problems at OSU and he has always said he regrets leaving.
Well, with all due respect, we went 5-6 the season after going 11-1 and the loss at Fresno St. to kick off the season was beyond pathetic. Riley is at fault. They have so underrecruited the D-line the last few years, we are getting killed in the trenches. We keep recruiting junior college guys, but they never seem to be any good. Isn’t the point that they are supposed to be game ready when they show up on campus? Forget JUCO, just recruit a bunch of high school kids at the same position and let them battle it out at camp.
I agree our lines are terrible over the long run. Count al the walkons.
It was implied that Erickson had a lot off campus issues with his players and they were “thugs”, that was not the case. The 2001-2002 team, was overhyped (remember the SI cover?) given their personnel losses, but if not for the right foot of Ryan Cesca they would have had a winning record and a bowl game. Certainly, not great but ok. They were better the next season.
Leach had all acedemic teams full of character.
But hes not coming so no worries, I just read his book :p
Leach got let go because of that idiot at ESPN that whined and cried for his kid who sucked anyway. At least Leach knew how to get his kids game ready.
What you neglect to mention is that even though Riley and Co. were competing for the Pac-10 championship, they were doing so when the conference was really down. Not only that, but we did not compete well outside of the conference. Moreover, Riley’s program has been trending downward for the last 4 years. The game is passing him by and he is not reacting to it fast enough. He could fix things by dumping some of his higher profile assistant coaches, but he seems loathe to do that. It’s his ship, if he wants to go down with it, that’s his choice.
I’m sure there are plenty of coaches we could get to Corvallis who could actually win, but the problem is we could actually make things much worse by hiring an Avezanno or Fertig or Pettibone. Then you’d have a seriously difficult rebuilding problem.
More importantly, Riley is under contract until 2019. The school doesn’t have the money to buy him out nor does it have the money to hire someone proven. We don’t have the benefactors that our neighbor whose name we do not speak down to the south have. If I had $30 million, I’d call Bobby D tonight and tell him it was his if he would give Riley his pink slip tomorrow. Alas, they don’t pay me that well.
we had a lot of young guys in there that showed well…that’s a positive for the future. We got a strong class coming in already for next year (lord willing, we don’t lose any commits). Agnew, Wynn, Cooks, seemed to be hard working, extremely motivated (and contagious) leaders….i’m bullish on the stock right now…kind of feel as if its (Riley’s best moments) are a strategically good investment.
I’m caught between this ^^ sentiment and the reality of losing to a team we had no business losing to.
I never played football (organized), and I’d be willing to bet not many here have done so beyond HS if at all. But we were all calling for our team to just settle down and run the fucking ball down Sac State’s fucking throats until they cried for mercy.
And it took an awkward moment in the second half when we brought in a frosh to just hand the goddamn ball off 400 straight times for us to realize the whole scope of the situation we were in. That was not really the time to just run the ball… again, and again, and again. But it seemed to work for a while.
In the end, Riley gets one more year after this year if he turns the reins over to the youth movement. That gives him cover for even a losing season, which I do not believe will happen to us this year IF the youth are given free reign. I’m tired of hearing neat things about Darrell Catchings then seeing him bat balls to the ground. I’m tired of watching a play end in #13 stooping over a pile he wasn’t fast enough to pile on.
And what the fuck were our corners doing all day if they were giving ten yards on the snap then chasing the receivers on fades (and poorly thrown balls).
Today was awful. But I’m certainly not ready to give up on the season. I think the two biggest problems on display today are fixable.
Watching the game at Reser today, what most stood out was the poor play of our secondary, most of which was due to bad schemes (in my opinion). Our defensive backs were consistently giving too much space to Sac’s wide receivers, leading to easy completions whenever Sac State needed a big play. And of course we were victimized again — repeatedly — by the “technique” taught to our defensive backs, where they faceguard and bump the receiver as the ball arrives, leading to repeated P.I. calls.
This is on the coaches. It’s fixable. But it needs to be fixed asap. It’s not clear how that’s going to happen unless Riley intervenes, actively and immediately, in some way or other. In Fall camp, I watched Poyer guard Markus Wheaton in one-on-one coverage every day, and do a great job of staying right with MW, without faceguarding or manhandling him. Why didn’t the coaches have Poyer doing this in today’s game? I have no clue….
The other thing that stood out was that Mannion was way more effective than Katz. Angry is right to say it’s only one game (and the first game of the season, at that). But having attended most of this year’s Fall camp practices, it seems like more of the same. In practices, Katz showed the same flaws that appeared today and during last season — locking on his primary receiver, difficulty reading defenses and finding other open receivers, lack of poise under pressure. Meanwhile, for the last couple of weeks of practices, Mannion showed great improvement in these and other areas (clearly eclipsing Cody Vaz, even if that was never acknowledged on the official depth chart).
This, too, is fixable. Just make Mannion the #1 QB. But this has to be done with care, and a sense of fairness, to avoid causing a big chemistry problem for this year’s team. Ryan Katz should start next Saturday against Wisconsin. If Katz plays well, great. But if he doesn’t, Mannion should be given another shot. If Mannion again outperforms Katz by a signficant margin, then Mannion starts the next game (and at that point it becomes Mannion’s job to lose).
We have some decent personnel this year (and it will get better, as players return from the injured list). If we use that personnel more wisely, this team can be competitive, and can win games. But if we keep doing the same things, we will of course keep getting the same (awful) results.
One other thing. The Beavs are recruiting (much) better, with a potentially excellent class coming in next year. That gives Beaver Nation a realistic basis for longer-term optimism. It would be a terrible thing to screw that up by doing a face-plant this season (thereby chasing away our recruits). I hope Riley understands this, and acts decisively to make the needed changes before this season turns into a nightmare (which could happen, if no changes are made….)
You make some decent points, but there is one glaring problem with your analysis. You make it seem as though the problems we saw (that you suggest are fixable) are a result of poor onfield play that the coaches can fix in practices this week. The problem, however, is the fact that the coaches teach the very thing that is killing the effectiveness of the defense. Year in and year out, we’ve seen our CBs never turn for the ball (ever). This is even when they are close enough to the receiver to touch him and get a pass interference call. If they are close enough to get a PI call against them, aren’t they close enough to turn and look for the ball??? Unless we dump the defensive coaching staff and bring in some new blood with some entirely new ideas about how to defend, we are in trouble. It will not matter how talented the players on the team are if the coaches make them worse by coaching them. As long as Banker is in charge of the defense, I will expect the same result we saw today. There is no reason to expect anything different.
+1
@USAFBvr: As you say, “[T]he coaches teach the very thing that is killing the effectiveness of the defense. Year in and year out, we’ve seen our CBs never turn for the ball (ever).”
I totally agree. This CB “technique” taught by Banker and the defensive backfield coach is awful. It was a big part of why we lost yesterday’s game (and other games in the past). It needs to get fixed asap.
How does this get fixed? Dumping Banker would be a good idea (and I’m all for it, for lots of reasons). But, being realistic, Banker is not going to be fired between now and December 2011. Is there no other way to fix this now?
Yes, I think this can be fixed now, if (and only if) Riley intervenes, immediately and actively. Will Banker listen to Riley? You bet he will. Here’s a quote from a G-T article about Banker published only three days ago:
““When Mike comes into our office in the week and makes a suggestion, take heed and make change,” Banker said. “Mike maybe once a year makes a suggestion. But act upon it because it’s something he wants changed.” http://goo.gl/UNK4V
Riley needs to tell Banker to tell the DB’s to turn around and look for the ball. If Riley did that today, I believe you would see a change by next Saturday against Wisconsin. Most or all DBs naturally want to play this way. And during Fall camp, in one-on-one drills, a lot of them WERE playing this way. If Riley tells Banker to make it happen asap, it will happen immediately.
But unless Riley does talk to Banker about this, you are of course correct to say that “[T]here is no reason to expect anything different”…
I have to agree with USAFBvr; Banker has said clearly, “it’s not scheme, its execution.” He said that explicitly in spring camp. They will continue to coach the players in individual technique that does not maximize their chances for success (e.g. DB’s), and essentially put the poor performance on the players because they won’t acknowledge their schemes need changing.
Banker has to go; it’s time. Who really expects this team’s defense to get better if he stays?
BTW SS, I have really enjoyed your reports and posts; very informative and much appreciated. You were accurate on Mannion’s progression, and Katz’s and Vaz’s stagnation. No print journalist following the team picked up on that to the degree you did, and if they did, they didn’t make it as clear as you.
I expect that Katz will continue to start, and that Riley and staff will take the position that Katz has earned the opportunity to play with a full team (e.g. Halahuni et al) before they give up on him. I don’t agree necessarily, but I’m just prepared for that so I don’t get too frustrated.
I expect Katz to be starting against UCLA, and maybe even the next game (ASU?) before Mannion gets the start. Mannion will continue to get some time, which will be interesting to watch; if given enough time, Mannion’s likely to get the “qb’s-struggle-in-riiley’s-complex-pro-set-offense” excuse and go through his growing pains. The downside I see is even more “vanilla” play calling.
As for Katz, wow. How disappointing. This is a kid who graduated early to get an extra spring camp under his belt – so this past spring camp was his fourth(?), correct? Before the game he said he needed to make quick decisions and get rid of the ball, and he failed on both counts.
@ObjCritic: We agree on the key points. The coaches are teaching bad pass coverage technique to the defensive backs. Banker needs to go. Katz is a big disappointment. The question is: what if anything can be done about these problems, and when?
I think the bad pass coverage technique can be fixed quickly. Riley just needs to have a stern conversation with Banker, and the problem will be solved. Seriously.
The Katz situation is trickier. Katz’s deficiencies won’t be solved by the return of Halahuni or James Rodgers. I suspect Riley knows this (which is why Riley played Mannion for the entire second half yesterday). But benching Katz immediately carries a big risk of splitting the team, ruining team chemistry, and killing the season in week 2. Katz needs to be given a chance to prove he can (or cannot) do the job. That’s why I think Katz should and will start against Wisconsin. But if Katz blows his chance again (as is likely), the key Beaver players may be ready to accept the need for immediate change, heading into the PAC-12 season opener against UCLA.
As for Banker, that’s an even trickier problem. I assume that Riley and Banker are close. It will be hard for Riley to fire Banker. But if our defense continues to perform as it did against Sac State, then this season is going to be a disaster, and the need for change will be obvious and overwhelming. Until then, I believe Banker is not going anywhere, and we just need to deal with it from now through December…..
I believe Mannion can learn alot more from Wisconsin than katz would. With Katz it will just be excuses and an ugly loss. Mannion would get better as the game went along and learn much more. He could then be better positioned to win against PAC teams beginning with UCLA. I much prefer going with Mannion for the rest of the season. To me Katz is done unless Mannion struggles. Mannion has a better head on his shoulders and the extra couple inches of height make a difference for throwing over the line and not having as many passes knocked down.
Mannion is better at managing a game and is focused on the end result. Katz thinks it matters if he tries something, anything. Mannion realizes any time you are not winning and keeping the offense on the field, especially with our crappy pass defense, the Beavers are in trouble. Katz is all too ready to throw dink passes and come short on third down. Then we get scored on again and it is too hard to come back especially as our opponents get better. You need compusure at QB and Katz scores low there. Mannion isn’t the fastest guy but he already has the respect of the team and is more of a man and far better leader in my opinion than Katz.
Mannion showed he can be a leader and I liked the way he sounded in the post-game interview. This is a guy ready to step up. Katz doesn’t have the leadership it takes at the position. Mannion does and we should be investing fully in him now. We will be best as the season progresses if we do so and also far better next year. Mannion has betetr chemistry with Agnew and most of the receivers too. The line has a better idea of what he wants to do and is more willing to push hard. Katz mostly leaves them scratching their head.
Forgive me. I have been on vacation. LSU did not start their QB and other starters and ducks lost? Wow, ducks really do not know how to cheat AND retain depth as apparently SEC does.
Dude! The SEC’s been doing it for years. Nikegon is really new to this whole chating thing.
But ask any Duck fan and they’ll tell you that DeAnthony “the dribbler” Thomas is the next great thing.
Did I not ask yesterday if the timing of the donation campaign was to capitalize on the preseason hype before we all got let down?
How you donors feeling now?
How many donations roll in tomorrow?
How does Riley feel about cashing his next paycheck?
Katz should sit, what’s the worst that could happen, we lose?
Next PI call we get because our DB didn’t turn his head around I’m charging the field with a baseball bat.
I don’t know the salaries of the coordinators or assistant coaches, but I imagine it’s more than mine, yet I still donate to them??!! I’m insane! If I performed like this I would be out of a job fairly quickly.
Hey, I just want to say thanks to you. Finally, I was able to laugh today after this debacle. Charging the field with a baseball bat? Hilarious.
It would be so much easier for us to accept if the coaches would just admit to the fans that they have no intention of trying to get interceptions, they just want the DBs to lock eyes with receiver and yell incessantly at him as the ball comes hoping to distract him long enough to drop the ball. At least then we wouldn’t be surprised when a DB let the ball go over his head into the receiver’s arms for a catch. Nevermind that if the DB was actully looking at the QB, he’d be able to pick it off. This isn’t the NFL for goodness sakes, the QBs aren’t going to throw a perfect ball, so why worry about locking eyes with the receiver? Chances are, the ball will be as close to you as it is to the receiver anyway. Might even make the receiver have to play defense.
Say it brother!
When we all flood Bob D. complaining about this embarrassing loss, let’s focus on the turning of the head topic. If novices like us fans see it game in, game out then we need a grass roots campaign.
So your mission… complain away but make you all mention turning of the heads.
Good night.
Lol “head on a swivel!”
At some point wouldn’t the coaches have a scheme were the DB would jump that stupid 5 yard out route or am I clueless? It also did not help that the DE’s were letting themselves get undercut all day long and giving the QB open passing lanes.
In case you guys weren’t watching the Ducks game and seeing the crawl in the second half:
http://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/index.ssf/2011/09/pac-12s_larry_scott_schools_ha.html
Is the world such that Larry need only to sit in his office and people lay down before him?
I would like to see Scott take it beyond all expectations. Make it the Pac 18, and just let people try to get their heads around that.
It would need to happen with the other four in order for people to see “value” in each addition. But the two schools would be Kansas and Hawai’i. Both are better academic fits than three-fourths of the newly (and oldly?) proposed schools. KU brings hoops value (worth A LOT in the East). And UH brings an extra seven football games to the conference every year, as well as a transient audience occupying 1.5 million hotel rooms per year–an audience which might think sports other than football have value.
Those are two very valuable commodities, and pushing to 18 would also kill the Big XII-III for good as well as bring the MWC to its knees. And since Boise is the bunch of cheap shot shits they are, I don’t like them or their conference. So death to both!
Hell, I could make a case for a Pac 20 by adding Davis and Rice. That would more than balance out the addition of the Okie and TTech schools to our league academic wise.
I’d rather have Rice than TTech.
What about Houston? I don’t know much about their academics other than the people I’ve met who have attended there seem smart. They’re an up and coming/exciting offense that could do damage (see UCLA).
Folks in the Houston area consider them to Houston High. In other words, local folks go there when they can’t get into any other school.
Since I’m not overly enthused about once again being in a league with Texas (I went to Rice when the SWC was still intact), and I couldn’t really care less about TTech, Maybe Mizzou and KU would be better adds (along with the Okies) in the end?
It is clear that people kneel before Larry Scott just to be near him. 300 million from ESPN only stopped Scott for a single year. He is like the guy at your high school who could get any girl to sleep with him just by saying hi.
What’s money when you can receive a wink and a knowing smile from Larry?
Sort of like this:
; )
Apparently Bushmill’s adds extra characters to my handle. I should have… *ahem*… caught that before now.
I know this is kind of Out of topic, but I await your comment on the new basketball commit
http://orangeexpress.wordpress.com/2011/09/04/beavs-land-2012-wing/
Jack: Your link isn’t working for me. Page not found
http://orangeexpress.wordpress.com/
Thanks.
I woke up thinking it was a dream, then I checked my site.
Damn.
I did the same thing! Does anyone know about the injuries to the oline? I saw a # of linemen go down. Did they come back? Not that we should have been losing in the first place. But how come our kickers always fuk us?
Anybody else think this team’s confidence is going to be shot very early next week at Wisconsin? The o-line, which has had a fragile confidence for the last few years, is going to regress over the course of the season because it; they’ll spend too much time questioning themselves and their abilities and be passive blockers again.
After the bye-week, the rhetoric about regrouping, coaches “refining”, getting back key players, and “getting serious for league play,” and this “not being the time to question ourselves” will fly. But question themselves is ultimately what the players will do. I still say UCLA can beat this team.
Angy’s point elsewhere is well taken; this is getting so predictable, it’s not even interesting. Expecting anything different with the same coaching staff simply isn’t rationale.
I find myself enjoying reading this board and the insights of others more interesting than the coaching staff and on-the-field play of young athletes for whom I’m beginning to feel sorry. The kids are not being put in the best position to win.
You have to fear a mutiny.
One day these players are going realize it’s their futures/lives at stake. If I’m a DB, I am looking to transfer to a school that allows me to make plays.
It’s a tenuous, slippery slope. Without a huge upset at Wisconsin the wheels will come off the wagon. Riley lost last year’s team and it’s about to happen again. This reminds me a lot of Herm Edwards before the Jets showed him the door.
From wikipedia: Overall, Edward’s tenure as head coach of the Jets was marred by chronic clock management problems, an ultra-conservative “play not to lose” mentality, and a lack of any discernable defensive philosophy, despite Edwards’ supposed expertise in the Cover 2 defense. The Jets replaced Edwards by hiring Eric Mangini, a senior assistant-coach with the New England Patriots.
Very similar coaching record to Riley, too. A good year, followed by a horrible year with bad losses. Just no momentum or yearly improvement. No big picture goals or expectations.
Last year against USC, I actually wondered if Poyer caught any flack for reading and jumping that route that led to his pick-6; he wasn’t playing coached technique.
If I’m a DB with above average skills and some experience, I start playing the ball; better to make the occasional int and get benched the stay on the field to be embarrassed over and over in predictable fashion.
Check this – Riley claims the plan had been to put Mannion in the game. In his post-game interview, Mannion says it wasn’t explained to him at half why he was going in. I saw in another print interview where Mannioin basically he said he was surprised when they told him to start warming up.
Does Riley have plans that he doesn’t share with the players? This coaching staff is inept.
http://www.gazettetimes.com/vmix_38b8e2dc-d6af-11e0-82a6-001cc4c03286.html
Riley said that to avoid the QB controversy conversation.
No headcoach starts a veteran QB and plans to take him out in the 1st quarter. Riley must think we’re idiots.
He probably said it to avoid permanently damaging Katz’s psyche. I think this may have been a “pick it up or get benched” Message to Ryan regarding his QB play. Now if he could just do that for our DBs. I think if you see Katz struggle again, Riley will be less hesitant to pull the plug for the season.
glad I’m not the only one whose jaw dropped when Riley said that in the post-game interview and I’m not really that perceptive. It just seems as though he would have even talked about in pre-game discussions – that he was going to play Mannion at some point
I would be more “proud” of Riley if he just came out and said he pulled Katz because of his poor, uninspired play. Riley is not being truthful with his “Mannion was going to play”. I think in Riley’s mind that statement is ok becasue Mannion was going to play if the game had been the blowout it was supposed to be. It wasn’t so it changes the reasoning.
Bingo. I had this exact thought but couldn’t figure out how to say it.
I had to think about it too! I was in Loss Prevention for a few years, I’m not perfect by any means but I have a pretty good bs detector when people makes statements about stressful situations that don’t ring true.
Minus the worst first half of football I’ve seen in a while…and in person…if they just would have piled it out, these assessments would be more optimistic:
-Agnew looked great. Yes he had that fumble, but he also made the tackle on the guy at the other end of the field. Great hustle.
-Mannion looked poised and confident, so did the o line under his lead.
-Wynn played great and I was looking right at him on the kick off were he totally destroyed aSac St blocker. Layed him out.
-Hekker boomed his punts.
-Minus the clanker, Romaine kicked great. His kick offs were deepand high.
But..where were the long passes in the first half? Now Katz won’t throw deep at all?
I think they really did miss Hardin, Frahm, and Halihuna. Just needed that leadership frankly. Still should have won. So many chances, and the whole game should have looked like the 2nd half. But with those guys they win.
Also, the 3rd down chainsaw thing got to be annoying as hell. Especially after they kept converting them!
Oh, and all but maybe one of the 4 PI penalties were bullshit, I saw 10 worse ones in the UO-LSU game. Refs seemed bush league to me.
Like you, I was watching Wynn a lot, and saw him do a lot of good things. This kid gives 100% every play, he loves to hit, and he’s both quick and fast. I too saw Wynn lay out a guy on a kick off coverage. Also saw Wynn overpower larger Sac State offensive linemen several times. But my favorite Wynn play was actually a non-play. Wynn was lined up at left DE, pawing the ground before the snap, ready to explode. The Sac State OT opposite Wynn jumped the snap count. No doubt in my mind that Wynn should get credit for that 5 yard procedure penalty. Wynn is a player. He just needs to get bigger and stronger to be a force in the PAC-12, which is likely to happen by next season….
“…He just needs to get bigger and stronger to be a force in the PAC-12, which is likely to happen by next season…”
Which to me means the coaching staff has just wasted a year of this kid’s career. I’d much rather see him play for 4 years AFTER he’s big enough and strong enough to be a force in the Pac. Imo this is yet another example of Riley’s poor recruiting. There should be enough older DEs on the roster so that this kid could red shirt.
I too was at the game and here’s my take. The first half was horrible and Sac State was really, Really fired up going into the half up 21-6. When Mannion came in during the second half he looked way more comfortable and should have been the starter under center from the beginning. The team responded a lot better when he was in charge.
Overall I feel good about this team and the amount of new talent being played. They fought back during the end and almost won. I didn’t feel as miserable as I did when the team got rolled during the WSU loss. Give this team some time and they will start playing up to their talent.
Oh there needs to be some changes in the secondary. All those lob passes should have been picked off instead of PI calls. That was getting ridiculous.
I hate the F ing Ducks but look at their progression. Rich Brooks took them as far as he could and left after a miracle year. Bellotti took them to next level. He peaked and was forced upstairs. Chip takes over and they become a power house. Granted uncle Phil’s cheating and $$$ helped. Riley should replace Booby D. He is loved and could raise money. He is a great embassador for OSU. His cronies won’t be in the AD’s office and he could hire great people under him. With the new Pac-12 contract, conference prestige and strong young talent OSU should be able to get an up and coming coach with tons of energy and new ideas. Riley keeps his check, pride and love for OSU.
Riley would be an awful AD. He would hire friends and promote friends. Can you imagine Banker as our HC? Also, he would never fire anyone because he would be afraid too. He would probably also be afraid to ask for money. Overall, might be one of the worst AD’s we could get. Pat Casey on the other hand would be a wonderful AD.
I concur. We know his resume; personnel decisions are not his forte.
Pat Casey would make a much better AD.
Though I would rather have him staying on as coach, and not have to do all the AD things the AD hasn’t been doing for him for…ever?
There’s been some discussion about Katz not improving and perhaps even getting worse. That’s understandable if he has no confidence in his OL but perhaps even more important, perhaps he isn’t getting good coaching.
Langsdorf is the QB coach and also the OC. Personally I can’t think of a good reason to keep him in the program.
Re Riley reaching his limit: This kind of reminds me of how things went when Dee Andros took over from Tommy Prothro. The first few years his teams did well but he wasn’t able to continue to recruit quality players and slowly the team sank to the bottom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dee_Andros
Imo Riley can’t recruit and if he isn’t replaced then we’re going to see the same kind of thing happen as we did with Andros.
Imo the first step is to fire Bobby D. NOW!!!
I’d also like to see Riley fired NOW and the job given to Locey for the rest of the year.
I think the first step would be to absolutely get rid of Riley. I will gladly donate to help buy him out and only donate for that. The reality is, Riley started his career as a defensive coach. He played DB in college and started coaching as a DB coach. After his (approximately) first 15 years he switched to the offensive side of the ball. If this guy (Riley) really had a clue, he would have already switched away from the ridiculous face guarding technique. The reality is, it is probably his scheme that he tells Banker to use and thus it persists. Anyone who thinks that Riley will tell him to change it is naive.
I am not defending Katz’s play, but he was on the ground alot as the OL just didn’t block anybody, albeit he should’ve made quicker decisions. On Mannions poise, It is pretty easy to look calm when all your doing is handing it off, we rand 16 out of 17 runs in one stretch. Yes, Mannion had that big play to Wheaton, but Markus was 7 yards behind his defender and I hadn’t seen that all day I donn’t know if he fell or slipped or just got burned (anybody?) but that was not a tough completion. My guy next to me suggested why not have Katz in theere if all we are going to do is hand off, and I told him probably because he would audible out of the run play? On the kicker, its week 1 and I think I have seen a half a dozen missed extra points or short field goals, so its not like we are the only ones not making them. What I don’t understand is why we were settling for a kick and not trying to punch it in with a touchdown. Then add in the fact that nobody has mentioned, that there was a procedure penalty on the snap before the kick that pushed it back 5 yards and if it had been where it was might have sneaked in the post?
I saw all day Sac St run that bubble screen or that short slant play and we couldn’t stop it, but I was wondering why don’t we run that for our offense when we have 3rd and manageable?
Finally on Riley, he isn’t going anywhere that is a problem as I agree with the average comment. But I would love for us to throw a ton of cash at Chris Peterson and see if we could get him here to the pac 12. I don’t think Riley would be a good AD, as he seems way to loyal to the guys trusts and as much as he fails to make needed changes to his staff I think he would be the same when dealing other sport issues.
1st: Katz would not have hit Wheaton like Mannion did, he would’ve over thrown him.
2nd: The procedure penalty helped Romaine with the angle. If you ever get a chance, go stand on the field at the hash marks at the 5, 10, 15 etc. yard lines. It’s a significant angle.
Another scathing review of Riley:
“Riley’s time is running up” http://beaverbyte.com/
Running up? Must mean out.
If you want to go straight to the source:
Mike.Riley@oregonstate.edu
bob.decarolis@oregonstate.edu
I am going to send Riley this post. It’s time to plant the seed.
I think we might have to go higher than Bob D, though, because as noted Riley and Bob D are in bed together and that deal linked them for life.
Who is Bob D’s boss? President Ray?
I really don’t know, can you find out? We need to nip this in the butt before it gets out of hand
Bob D’s boss is not Ed Ray.
Follow the money. The Pac-12 TV deal makes Bob D Ed Ray’s boss…
I don’t think we’re being too extreme or flying off the handle after one disappointing loss either. This is a pattern of losses, and we want change.
It doesn’t mean we hate Riley, it’s just time for a change. Let’s right this ship. We’ve got some good young, promising players. We’ve got good facilities, a vocal, cheering crowd. But we’re stumbling in the coaching department. Let’s right this ship.
It doesn’t have to be ugly or nasty, just make the decision and be open and honest. When you pull your starting qb due to lack of performance, it doesn’t mean you hate him. It’s just time for a change.
Come on guys, make the needed change and let’s right this ship.
Remember Virginia Tech lost to James Madison last year. Then went 11-3 and lost to Stanford in the orange bowl. ;-)
The season isn’t over until the Beavs lose conference games. Probably 2 max. That’s all we can cling to now.
I don’t see how what VaTech did last year has any relevance. Totally different players, coach, etc. I know the wink means you’re being sarcastic, but some people actually correlate the two so it bears mentioning these are mutually exclusive events.
We’re more likely to finish like 2010 Ole Miss, than 2010 Virginia Tech IMO. Ole Miss lost to Jacksonville State last year and finished 4-8.
Yes, I agree. I mentioned the James Madison lost last year also. More as a piece of optimism to remind myself that this thing wasn’t over. Michigan also won quite a few after losing to App St.
With our team, the reality is, we don’t have a winable game. I can clearly see us going 0-12. I was looking up the worst losses of all time. A team hasn’t reached the century mark since the late 60’s. I sure hope that doesn’t change against Wisconsin because they will run it up if they can.
“…A team hasn’t reached the century mark since the late 60?s. I sure hope that doesn’t change against Wisconsin because they will run it up if they can….”
Against UNLV it looked to me like HC Bielema called off the dogs fairly early in the 3rd quarter. Here’s hoping he does that again.
It would be interesting to go back and see what Va Tech fans were saying after the loss to James Madison. I wonder if they knew it was just an aberraton and they would win the ACC? How would we be feeling if the Beavers had at least gone 8-5 last year. I think how the Beaver finished and the loss to Wazzu gives us the feeling that this may be the complete downturn we have been fearing.
The relevancy would be the general observation that more talented teams lose to less talented teams everyday in sports and that one event it in of itself does not necessarily spell disaster for the entire season (unless you are the NE Patriots and you lose to the NY Giants), but as you say the individual factors are what will come in to play as the season progresses.
It’s just so frustrating. Our roster is more talented and experienced than last year, so it’s obvious it’s the coaching. Then I think to myself, when will the coaching ever change? Riley is too much of a nice guy to fire Banker and Langsdorf, and there’s no way OSU buys Riley out. The only way he will be leaving is on his own term which saddens me because I don’t think he wants to go even though he’s done the best he is able to IMO.
You are a bright kid, Warren. Very perceptive.
I think an interesting question is this: if Riley somehow wins @ Wisconsin, do we all feel differently? If so, then we are overreacting right now.
How I’d feel with a win @ Wisconsin: good, obviously, but still wouldn’t feel like this is the staff to take the program to the next level. I’d feel like they got lucky, couldn’t repeat, and delayed the inevitable even further down the line.
@Angry: The only way that the Beavs will beat Wisconsin is if the coaches implement changes this week. On defense, those changes include scrapping the DB faceguarding technique and instructing the DBs to stop giving receivers 10-yard cushions. On offense, those changes include more time for Sean Mannion at QB, and more vertical passing plays.
If the coaches don’t make such changes, there is absolutely no way the Beavs beat Wisconsin.
On the other hand — to be fair — if the Beavs DO somehow beat Wisconsin, it will not be because “they got lucky”. It will be because Riley and the coaches made the necessary changes. And in the unlikely event that happens, the coaches (and players) will deserve a LOT of credit. Here’s hoping that’s what we are discussing next Sunday….
Remember, twice last year (USC and Cal) the coaches seemed to be able to prepare the team following hard losses. Apparently, they are capable of doing it. The problem is they don’t do it for every week. I remember reading about one of the above games last year where they said the coaching staff even stayed home from recruiting trips to work with the team. Seems backwards to me.
I believe after the Cal game they got killed by Washington State. No loss for Riley is quite as bad as the Sac St game though.
“if Riley somehow wins @ Wisconsin…” I’ll sh!t my pants and post the video all over the web.
Aww, shucks…
Yawn…..
What next level do you really need to get to? What is this next level fools like you are always talking about.
Why can’t you Johnny Come Lately post-streak Beaver fans just shut the F up. Your insanely high expectations are a nice recipe for a life of misery…
Newsflash: ZERO teams are perennial contenders. Teams go through their ups and downs. Penn State, Texas, Alabama, Michigan — all of them have had TERRIBLE seasons in the past decade.
Just enjoy the ride for christ-sakes….
Laughable, I don’t even feel like writing anything.
Sincerely,
Randy the Logger
“…Why can’t you Johnny Come Lately post-streak Beaver fans just shut the F up….”
I’ve been a Beaver fan since the mid 1940’s how about you?
“Johnny Come Lately post-streak Beaver fans”
What kind of a tool are you? I will guess that your whole opinion is as well informed as the above quote.
The schools that you have named have had bad seasons but not nearly liked OSU. Michigan is the only one to loss to an FCS program. Texas had 10 win seasons every single year that Mack Brown had been there until last year (after losing the winningest QB in college football history). Bama was facing sanctions. Penn State is always up and down and has the least prestige of the group (based on all-time wins).
The reality is, we have not played a good football game in quite some time. We had a losing season last year and began this season with a loss to a FCS program. Not to mention three consecutive CW losses. Looking back to our last bowl game is embarassing as we were drubbed by BYU and that whole season lacked a marquee win. 2008 is the last time I can point to something OSU has done in a positive manner. Michigan fired their coach the season he lost to App St and he finished with a 9-4 record (and a victory over then reigning heisman winner Tim Tebow). I can’t see our program doing anything of the sort. Riley doesn’t have a heisman winning athlete nor a national championship.
Now for the direct insult, you sir are clearly a loser. You are afraid of a losing streak so you accept a loss to a FCS program. You can’t see the trees for the forest, they are on the brink of that losing streak if they don’t change something. The direct result of this loss (followed by apathy) will be something akin to a nuclear bomb to the program. That is not something I can live with.
And btw Larry Scott is the anti-Christ and the Pac-10 should have TEN teams in it…
Ummm… the Pac 10 did have ten teams in it.
Duh?
I don’t like Randy the Logger AT ALL either. BDC is pretty clueless on putting a nice product out there for fans. Randy smells of desperation. Not original and not college-themed. How about Benny just do some more creative things!!! Get rid of the Beaver Biceps garbage. Write to the Pac-12 offices if necessary and have them get involved if we really are incapable of implementing some simple changes that would be a big improvement. We act so small time that it depresses the fans. Make some decent videos, have one more sound beside the chainsaw for when we never stop them on third down and tell Randy to sit with the rest of the fans. Reach out to other schools for ideas. What else is BDC doing all the time? He wasn’t even at the Spring Game.
Article and poll on Mannion being the starter:
http://beaverbyte.com/2011/09/04/mannion-should-start-at-wisconsin-beyond/
“…What else is BDC doing all the time? He wasn’t even at the Spring Game….”
Hopefully interviewing for another job. I CAN DREAM CAN’T I? :-)
its a timber Jim/Joey spinoff and its embarrassing, why play up a hick, good ol’ boy identity
Timbers Joey is F’ing awesome, he has muscles and saws a huge tree. with fireworks. The Beavers need to hire the Portland Timbers staff.
whoever that flabby guy was… lame
I noticed that they waited until AFTER the game to announce the traffic escape routes video, so maybe they are listening to us!
The last great football game I remember the Beavs playing was vs USC when Quizz went off…so what was that, 2008?
Have we played a great game since? I can’t think of one. I am talking a great game where the team came ready and the line dominated scrimmage.
Games that came close to that were Stanford 09 and Cal 2010 IMO.
I would say Stanford 09 and maybe USC 2010
SC ’10 version was weak and unmotivated. Doesn’t really count.
You are correct. Which is probably why I saw more of the ’08 USC highlights in the various videos, especially the team entry video. Nothing much of use since then…
Even though everyone hates Randy the Logger will BDC keep him all season long and keep ignoring the fans at every turn? God I hope not.
That guy is pathetic to have down there. Let Benny do some interesting moves, have some better video moments. That guy is a disgrace to the university and should not be on the sideline next to Benny. He can bring a fake chainsaw into the stands all he wants and sit or stand with the rest of us.
Hmmm, I’ve got no problem with the guy. It’s entertaining and original. Think we should probably get some real chain on the bar though.
As a Husqva man myself, I agree with the “fake chainsaw” sentiment. Seems like he wasn’t always ready when they put him on the big screen either. My idea of how to pump up the fans: show a guy trying to start his saw. Nice move, marketing mavens…
Agnew is leading the nation in rushing. Partially because Langsdork really like to spam the run plays (as seen the years before)
The only thing worse than the game was I paid $9.95 for that absolutely shitty Beaver Nation telecast. It froze during the worst times and the replay sucked. Two camera angles and nothing but fans and some dumb ass with a chain saw. Every 3rd down they showed a cartoon of a beaver with a chain saw. My six and eight year old thought it was hokie. I can’t donate another dollar to the Beav’s if they think that video product is acceptable.
That being said, you all thought the Beavers would go anywhere from 5-7 to 7-5 and that will still happen. Chill out. You all sound like chicken little. We played 8 true Freshman. We were missing Rogers, Halihuni, Phillip (yes, healthy he would make a difference), Hardin, Frahm and Collins and Mitchell weren’t 100%. We will improve. The team came out nervous and flat. In the second half they dominated and lost in OT because the Ref’s missed a 12 in the huddle call on the PAT. Good grief you guys are hens.
Of course Frahm and Hardin weren’t 100%. They didn’t even play in the game.
Please Doug, hens? chicken little?
The factors you mention are completely negated by the fact that we weren’t playing a PAC12 team, it was Sac State for crying out loud. 5 to 7 wins may be possible but will be IN SPITE of not because of the coaching. Langs will predictably ride Agnew and Banker will continue to forbid DB’s looking for the ball. Sad.
Agnew is gonna get high mileage come this year.
Not – because it will be like last year, defenses will play accordingly to a 1-play, 1-running back.
I think people freaking out is justified. The Beavers didn’t even lose to a really good FCS team. They lost to a just okay FCS. You have to play like absolute shit to even pull out a tight one against a team like that. Shows how badly they played. The bright spots were Agnew, Mannion, Wynn, Crichton, and the tackling as a whole. However, Katz, the secondary, coaching, were so bad that they far outweighed the good. There is plenty of reason to freak out right now.
At one time or another, I can only speculate that the DBs have had coaches who told them to play for the ball. They aren’t going to give a press conference questioning Banker, but what might they be thinking? And would they confront him?
What really stands out to me was the game several years ago at Cal. I think Riley ( Cal’s QB ) was a freshman. All they needed to do was kick a field goal to win and instead he tried to run it. The announcer said “you don’t try to run on the Beavers, big mistake”. Haven’t heard that lately, especially of a running QB. I also used to hear what a genius Banker was, but not in the last couple of years. I’m sorry, but I am a post streak fan. I fell in love the team that terrorized Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl and the monster hits of Al Afalava in his Junior year. I am not as concerned with all the offensive weapons as I am with a defense that punishes.
Kevin Riley was a redshirt freshman. He was not, is not and will never be a running quarterback. He moves around fairly well but is quite slow. Before the botched play, Cal had a time out or incomplete time stoppage. Coach Tedford choked because he did not review the options with Kevin Riley, like telling him not to run because Cal was too far from the endzone. They had time. They had a time out. Kevin Riley had not taken any snaps prior to the Beaver game and was poorly prepared. The error was much more on the coaches…especially Tedford who abdicated his responsibility of leading the team by giving Kevin only one option if the play was covered.
I might regret saying this later on? But, this season feels like it is over.
The loss is still painful. This team has the same fire, the same swagger, the same attitude as last years team vs wazzu. They came out and played flat. Where is that “chip on the shoulder” that we heard about during the entire off season? The hunger to be “Champions”? To become Champions you must win September games. Losing to a Division I-AA at home is inexcusable, and flat out pathetic. Prove me wrong Beavers, dig deep and find your heart. Predicted finish: 2-10, possibly 0-12. Until they show me otherwise. Go Beavs!!! (Can we borrow WTD, it might help with perspective?)
WTD is probably the worst statement ever and it is way overhyped. The statement implies that if you do what you are supposed to today then everything else will take care of itself. The reality is, if you focus on today alone then you haven’t set long term goals. Any given day doesn’t matter as a part of the whole, just the end result. A talented team like the ducks should be worried about one thing, championships. The goal every day should be to win the championship, simply focusing on the given day is not enough. Further, the statement implies that the individuals are not individuals but sheep, they work while one person sets their goals for them.
The season is not over.
Just ask the marketing folks.
Little things that add up:
http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2011/09/riley_says_beavers_messed_up_o.html
The placement, the 5 yards, missing by inches, etc. If they were playing well and losing, or going in the right direction as a program, occasional pratfalls would be easier to handle.
It’s the lack of detail that gets me more than anything.
Like you and all of us have been saying it’s on the coaches, though I am wondering if the young QB messed up the call and Riley is covering for him? If Langs screwed up the call that is absolutely inexcusable. These aren’t complicated details, they are football 101 strategies. How can they be missed?
I think Langsdorf screwed it up. There’s a chance Mannion screwed up the call but I doubt it. I wouldn’t put anything anything passed Langsdorf.
Wrong. In that situation Riley has to speak directly to Mannion and not speak thru an emissary. Also saying that he told the assistant coach to run to the middle is lazy coaching. Doesn’t Riley know the plays well enough himself to call a specific play and give it directly to the qb? That’s why they pay him the big bucks.
If you have ever been a part of a large coaching staff in football you would realize that it is not that simple. The 40 seconds seems long when you are watching the game but when you are managing a game it is a different story. There is a system for calling plays, you follow the process to make sure that communication is effective. Only an idiotic coach would not follow the process in a key moment (Riley is not THAT dumb). The error likely occured between the field and the Langsdorf or by the frosh in the game. Either way, this error is not on Riley directly. It is indirectly on Riley because he handed the reins to Langsdorf but that specific moment is just a microcosm of the larger problem. The system is bad.
I have been part of a large coaching staff and have had to present a detailed plan during a timeout to a head coach, outlining three scenarios, with three different play sequences. At that point the head coach made the decision. It is easy to call plays if you plan ahead and don’t delegate everything away except the pr, and popsicles. In any successful organization, the subordinates present the options and the head guy or gal makes the decision. This is not the court of Louis XIV with all the royal hangars on where you have to follow the process in powdered wigs. This “large organization” protocol bs sounds like Douglas MacArthur in the Phillipines when he insisted on on following a communication process that got thousands of our troops killed, and nearly lost us WWII. Only a winning coach would take charge like Marshall Sperbeck, like Chris Petersen, like Les Miles, like Urban Meyer and lead in the decisions and not be caught up with following the process. All coaches should be thinking two or three plays ahead at all times. 40 seconds is forever, and is a luxury.
This is not a monarchy or a dictatorship. The idea is that you follow the process because that saves time and flow. If he abandons the process and is called for a delay of game then everyone would whine about that. It should be very simple to relay in a call to run the ball to the middle of the field, its not something worth breaking the routine or process for. This is not about a process for the sake of the process, it is about following the process in order to win.
Mannions dad is a coach – right? I wonder what the hell he is thinking about all this.
Angry,
I completely agree with everything that you have said. I believe that Mike Leach is the ideal hire. Banker can’t defend against the spread and Langs lacks offensive creativity.
While I am aware that you are going to contact Bobby D. I want to know how much something like that would do. Does he respond when you send him a message? I feel like there is nothing that we as fans can do to create change within the program. I don’t know what it’s going to take, but after being at the game the anxiety level was too high for me. I was literally exhausted after watching this team play.
I came into the season thinking that it would be different, just like I did last year. I guess I will have to expect nothing from this program anymore and then when something good happens I guess I will be surprised.
What’s it going to take? A petition? A mob of people with flaming torches and pitchforks outside Reser? Someone needs too step in and soon.
I am concerned that one of things we may be seeing is that the Beavers are the only team in the league (I’m not counting Utah/Colorado yet) who are in a “pecking order” decline. I lot of teams fall into that 5 to 8 win spectrum depending on how the breaks go from season to season. Oregon and Stanford are clearly at the top and Wazzu was at the bottom.
Oregon St. has managed to stay in that “middle tier”for the last 10 years. but based on the last 15 games. they are close to joining Wazzu and I would guess Colorado in the bottom tier.. I think you only have to look at the losses to WSU, UCLA and now Sacremento State to see that this is not gloom and doom, but a new reality. One of favorite supervisors from the past always said “three time is a trend”, I would say the Beavs are in a “trend” as of Saturday.
Agreed, pac 12 is better all around.
Imo in order to get anything done the message has to be conveyed to President Ray and perhaps the emphasis should be on the performance, or lack thereof, of Bobby D.
Imo OSU needs to clean house.
Article about Riley’s relationship with Paul Chryst. Can’t believe he has been at Wisconsin for seven years already. You would think with seeing all of his success with the Badgers, Riley would realize Langsdorf has peaked and it is time for change.
http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20110903/WIS020101/110903029/Riley-Chryst-speak-same-language?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE%7Cp
I was to pissed to turn on the computer yesterday so I’m throwing in today.
I appreciate posts here like UTBEAV’s but here is why most of us seem to be “over-reacting.”
Most of us are upset because we all know the iron is hot and it should be the time we are striking. We have had winning years, great reputation, and the most liked coach in college football. But instead of taking the hammer to it, we see Riley not going after it and the iron is cooling. The iron doesn’t get hot often at OSU.
I too like Riley as a person. And I think the key to all this is with him. He has to make some changes. Bring in some better assistant coaches and I think things could really turn around. I would rather see this then lose Riley at this point because he makes a good front man.
I just hope this season doesn’t push us back to the dark ages again.
Regardless of what the expectations might have been for the season – even if the Big Sky conference has improved from past years – this first game was scheduled for one reason only – to win it.
Who is the DB coach?
The more I replay that game in my head,the more I realize how poorly the DBs are coached. With proper coaching/technique our DBs could have easily put the offense back on the field 3 or 4 times with interceptions and batted balls.
Instead,we got completed passes and pass interference penalties.
Am I missing something here?
Is this a technique that has ever been successful in any level of football?
Our defensive scheme is ridiculous. Why do we insist on this stupid man-up corner coverage on EVERY PLAY? Why can’t we ever mix it up? Some zone here, some man here, some blitzes there, etc. It must be stupidly easy for opposing QB’s to read our defense. It’s almost always the same coverage, all the QB has to do is check if somebody is blitzing.
Our defensive coaches do not call plays or schemes that utilize the personnel they have. I mean common James Dockery just made the Browns active roster. Obviously that means he has some serious talent, we just didn’t use him properly. Now we’re seeing the same thing with Poyer. Arguably the best overall athlete on the team, but we are sticking him out on an island in a defensive scheme that would be difficult for Darrell Revis to succeed in.
I prefer a man-up coverage scheme. Banker runs a combo man-zone (in the style of a cover 2) to mix it up but mostly a cover 0 or 1 scheme. If we let our corners turn and make a play on the ball I would be fine with the scheme.
My bigger issue is with our run defense. You man up so that you can sell out to defend the run. Banker hasn’t had the bodies to contain the run. Particularly when his scheme is make the D run deep and to the outside (again not a terrible scheme but not my preference). The larger issue in all of this happens when the MLB is responsible for contain on both sides. Our MLB’s have been weak and slow. Our OLB’s have also been slow. Meanwhile our D-line hasn’t been able to shut down the inside run. The defense has been inept against the zone read with the backside biting hard on the fake and pursuing down field to far. Worst of all, he doesn’t take away the cut back lanes on the backside. The end result means that we are burned on the zone read and cut backs by talented RB’s. If you sell out to contain the rush, you better damn well do it.
By all accounts Mike Riley is a good and decent man. He led the Beavers out of the darkness and into the light, before he left on his own accord to seek a bigger paycheck. But he should be held accountable because his compensation package is huge. Mike Riley has become intellectually lazy, speaking in cliches, delegating all phases of the game and shrinking from his leadership role. On the last drive when they were pounding the hornets and showing lots of courage, every member of the team wanted to push the ball into the endzone or die trying. Mike Riley said, I don’t trust you guys. Let’s spike it, kick a field goal and slink off into the night. Perhaps he was just playing the odds. But he basically told the team that he has no courage, imagination or fight. He just wanted to protect his paycheck and just get by in life. Mike Riley, get off your tail, show some courage and make a well thought out plan of attack. Pay more attention to detail because your preparation and cliches are sloppy. We need you to show up and lead.
That botched FG summed up Riley, though.
1. No attention to detail: the ball must be in the center of the field unless the kicker prefers otherwise. Langsdork tried to blame Mannion. Mannion doesn’t make the mistake if the coaches pull him to the sideline and tell him exactly where to kneel and/or teach him intelligent football during practice.
2. Oversights: he only saw the chipshot FG and overlooked the possibility of penalties, etc. He makes this same error with clock management all the time, too.
He has many other shortcomings, but these two cost the Sac State game.
Yeah, you do have to wonder what the hell goes on during timeouts and sideline conversations. The Agnew run before the FG attempt was just a pointless play and with two freshmen involved that has to be on the coaches to prevent that from happening.
I think one of the most frustrating things at this point for me to try understand is this: we are all fans here. Some of us have more football experience or knowledge than others, but for the most part we are all just watching the games. If we as fans can pick up on these GLARING holes in our team that are killing us each year, why on Earth can’t the guy making a million dollars per year see this stuff? Well, I guess he must see the stuff we see he just doesn’t do anything about it or try to switch things up ever. That is even more annoying.
Albert Einstein’s definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
I think a lot of head coaches have pretty big egos (yes,even Riley) and they are reluctant to give up on their once successful systems even though the results show diminishing returns. I think it costs a lot of them their jobs over time.
Even Chip Kelly has a bit of a dilemma because the spread is not working against the elite teams of the SEC and Big 10, so what does he do if the non-negoitable goal is to win a BCS championship? What do you change or do you just keep trying to get better players for all facets of the game? I don’t think that is really an option for OSU?
I think Kelly will recruit bigger DTs and OL. Oregon would have a NT if they had any beef.
But do you lose some speed when you go bigger? You need some quickness to zone block in the spread. To find big and fast lineman you are getting the best of the best, right? Can Kelly get those guys to play in the spread? If I was a big, fat and talented O-lineman, I would rather play for USC or Alabama on my way to the NFL then to waste time dancing around in the spread!
Casey is staying another year.
This is no surprise. If Casey was leaving he would have announced a while ago.
They practice in the fall, right?
He is probably holding out for that AD job.
Where are you seeing this? If true, thank the [insert your reference to diety/ies here].
While I would love to see him as AD, but hate for him to have to deal with the mess that is Riley. He deserves better.
No, strike that: I would like to see Pat Casey have a lifetime contract as coach, and have the baseball program forced to survive on merely one quarter of the attention the football program receives from the “Head Office.”
Instead of 1/70th.
I like how nobody in here is going crazy about Agnew’s performance, but as I read some other sites I see a lot of “pollyanna-ish” momentum building. I am going to withhold judgement till about six games in. Yes, he is talented, but the “team” still lost.
If I remember correctly, Iowa St. had a guy named Davis who lead the nation in rushing on a 2-10 team a few years ago.
I agree. Even if he were to lead the nation in rushing this year it wouldn’t mean shit if the team won 3 games or so.
I fear it is likely any potential Agnew has will be offset by Langsdorf’s predictable play calling and proven reliance on a single RB. Using Agnew as a decoy, having him get only 20 or so touches per game, and balancing him with a vertical passing game doesn’t seem to be in Langs thinking. Even less likely is the thought that Stevenson or Jenkins will get 5 or 6 carries per game or that a two back set will be used effectively.
As someone said last year, Langs has lost all but a few pages of the playbook.
I am not in love with Langs but don’t forget that we did try to throw vertical quite a bit last year. Katz just always overthrew his target. The only “on” game he had was against Zona. If Mannion plays as well as he looked last game we might be able to capitilize on the vertical passing game. My biggest complaint about our passing game is the middle plays. Most people forget about how great Moevao looked against USC in ’08. He nailed key slants, 10 yard outs, 12 yard curls and stick routes on third downs. Route running was superb and his accuracy was also amazing. We don’t complete enough of this middle depth routes, especially on key third downs. Setting up these plays will help our offense grow infinitely.
I think people here are focusing on what needs to improve. Implicitly, and even sometimes explicitly, users of this site express appreciation for Agnew’s performance.
But I think the fear is, Agnew gets run into the ground this year, and in the context of predictable play calling.
Angry,
What is Led Zeppelin’s worst album? ;)
Haha.
Difficult question. I’d says Presence or Coda.
I hear ya, but just can’t pick one. Might even be “LZ 1” for me. Besides, Achilles’ is just too good.
LZ1 has one of the best band introductions ever, though—that opening riff of Communication Breakdown…
Plus Babe I’m Going to Leave you, Dazed and Confused, and How Many More Times. PLUS, the badass artwork.
Dang it Angry, why do you always (mostly) have to make sense.
Easily Coda with Presence a distant second worst because Achilles is on it. In fact, they should have put Achilles in the movie and thrown Presence away.
It seemed they went in spurts for music quality and experimentation. They put out their first three then collected the best of their remaining songbook and put it on Zoso. Then they put out two more and tried to support a third with one great song and a movie. Then they made us wait for three years while I guess they argued about which album cover was best, and they were stopped mid-creative spurt by Bonzo’s death.
They should never have put Coda out. It was just a bunch of rough draft throwaways that needed major tweaking in order to seriously publish.
Coda was outtakes, right? Can’t count that. I have never been that impressed with “In Through the Out Door”, but I bow down before “Physical Grafitti” at least once a month!
PG is great. Houses of the Holy might be their best song.
ITTOD is a guilty pleasure. :|
It’s a cheesy record, and they’re clearly on the downside, but the songs are catchy. Hot Dog. :|
ITTOD is actually an excellent album in a commercial sense. There’s no subtext holding it all together like there is in PG or HotH. But each and every song brings it. It’s not their best album, but it is their most polished and best commercial sound.
Black Sabbath > Led Zeppelin
I call horse hockey pucks! Black Sabbath < Led Zeppelin. Hell, Black Sabbath < The Band.
Smoke that in your pipe and stick it.
;-)
The Band? Hmmm… possibly the best debut album ever. But it was all downhill from there… not precipitously, but downhill nonetheless. And Waltz is about as critically acclaimed as Song as far as movies go. Yippee!
Love The Band, but I’m gonna have to call no on overall prestige. I would put them up there as highly influential, but their lasting effect is only slightly more important than the Paul Butterfield Blues Band (my vote for most vastly underrated group as recognized now). Since we’ve strayed onto this topic, two MUST-HAVE albums from that era are Bloomfield and Kooper’s Super Session and Live Adventures.
Sabbath not better than Zep overall. I’m not going to get into it, but Sabbath had one awesome album, and that was it. And the Fairies’ boots will back me up on this one. There have been good songs here or there associated with Sabbath or done by members afterwards. But they flamed out after their second album, only to be heard again on Bloody and during California Jam. I wish that you had said Deep Purple instead of Sabbath, because the pure genius that is Blackmore can be argued against any one musician or band.
Where was I?
I feel the same way about Zep. First album was pretty good. Rest of them had maybe two or three songs worth listening to. Robert Plant just never could STFU with all the moaning and groaning and squeaking and just let the fucking guitars play for a while.
Blacck Sabbath brought was the dawn of heavy metal.
Led Zeppelin was the dawn of buttrock.
Then there was the Ramones :D.
The short-term solution is Riley calls plays and Langsdork coaches the QBs.
Then in the off season Riley can find a better OC.
That’s logical, which means it will never happen.
I’ve had a while to digest all this. And while the loss to Sac State is horrendous, I don’t think it’s all bad. That’s kinda what I’m getting from everywhere.
Little things led to a big loss. Frosh made mistakes frosh are going to make, but coaching made the mistakes which lost the game. Everyone likes to point out that our o-line sucked in the first half and was brilliant in the second. But the only real difference was the attitude set forth by the person running the huddle. Nobody wants to blame Katz for the general attitude of the offense in the first half. They want to blame the play selection and the inability to block for him.
Yes, I thought the primary scheme was going to be to run it down their throats to start the game. And yes, I was frustrated as hell when we refused to do so. But that doesn’t save Katz from poor decision-making within the scheme that was practiced for a week leading into the game. When you play a team which runs the pistol or read option you stretch the field vertically and run right at them. Their defense is geared to play the edges because that’s what they face every day. So making check downs your primary focus plays right into their hands. And making it look like they weren’t even check downs by eye-balling your receivers in the flats is just dumb. When Katz tried to look down the field, he also suffered from tunnel vision, and the line collapsed due to him standing like a statue for too long and looking at one WR all the way. The couple times he pulled it down, he could have slid through that gap and had another five seconds to throw the ball if he wanted. But he was helter-skelter, and he just ran.
When Mannion took his first snap, you could just see that the o-line and the running game was suddenly in synch. Yes, they probably heard an earful, but the timing was also crisp, and the holes were filled by a sudden RB who was looking for positive ground. Mannion had to have a good rapport with everyone in the huddle for them to walk to the line with confidence and continue to run plays with efficiency. Katz never looked like he had that control when stepping under center. And he certainly didn’t have it when he dropped back with the ball. Like I said, he focused on one man and ignored the lanes the defense was giving him. When Mannion dropped back, he also stood still. But he dropped to the places where he knew he would have a pocket. And he kept his head on a swivel, taking the passing lanes as they opened.
All that being said, I think starting Katz against Wisconsin is a wise choice if only for the gamesmanship involved. They will be looking at Agnew’s second half tape, and they will need to look at tape on Katz if he’s slated as the starter. Riley has been notorious for not making adjustments in-game. But the most obvious in-game adjustment was made at the half last week, and teams can’t spend their time watching tape on (and scheming for) two QB’s. Let Katz start the game, and if he falters bring Mannion in to tighten it up again. Wisconsin’s front seven had a horrendous game against UNLV. I don’t think they got into the back field until very late in the first half. And UNLV’s o-line is not as good as ours (and you know what I think of ours). They have a great MLB, but he’s new to the position (former OLB), and he was stuck inside for most of the game. UNLV running off tackle was just embarrassing Wisconsin. They should feel happy that UNLV’s QB was less than average.
I don’t know what to thin about our D. Our presumed strengths and weaknesses were flipped (secondary vs. d-line). I thought Motter and Seumalo were better than Masaniai was all game. And while Castro was credited with a blocked FG, that kick hit the RG in the butt. So I’m not really impressed. I really liked Wynn and Crichton. They should be on the field together most of the time, and Fernando and Henry were decent enough to get the pass-rush nods. Our LB’s were a little hesitant, but their speed was SOOOO much nicer than last year. what would have been edge runs for TD’s time and time again last year were shut down for modest gains or less. My only complaint was that Unga and Wilson were turned around on pass coverage instead of spying the QB, and he just threw the ball right by them as they stood there a couple times.
And not watching for the ball in the secondary? I have nothing to add on that other than Fleming’s deep balls were ducks, and every PI call should have been an INT instead. If we’re not going to trust our safeties over the top, then we should just bring them up to the flats for every play. The CB’s are covering deep on the snap, so we might as well have someone covering the quick outs. I was getting pretty tired of watching two WR’s take on one deep corner play after play.
As for the coaching staff, I think we’re dead on for asking more of them. Riley has the skills necessary to make the play-calls, so he should just do it. Langsdorf is a fine positional and unit coach, but his in-game sequences have faltered time and again. If Langsdorf does continue to make the calls and we continue to falter, then that’s on Riley. He might as well make the calls himself and make it on him anyway.
Banker? I just don’t know. His scheme would work if the secondary was allowed to play ball. But they’re not, and it doesn’t. I’d rather get burned for the occasional long TD and gather a couple picks than get called for numerous PI’s, get no INT’s and still give up a TD. There have been too many games where you would think the coaches would have an epiphany on this technique for me to think this game will change attitudes.
But I guess you never know.
And lastly, people out there are trying to mitigate this loss and last season’s pathetic play by bringing up national powers who have faltered for a season or two in the last decade. Texas is a common one, and I’ve read comments that people think they didn’t freak out after last year.
Ummm… yeah they did. One losing season brought calls for their coach’s head. And he responded by cleaning house of assistants who had been with him forever. If they are sub-.500 again, he’s gone. Buy it.
Right on about Mack Brown being gone after another poor season. Funny thing is, he has had nothing but 10 win seasons previous to this and they are willing to get rid of him. We are hung up about Riley, he has one 10 win season and it included 4 losses…
I hope Riley stays and rights the ship. But Mack Brown is another story. Successful yes and should have security based on his record. But Texans know that Mack is mainly a really good pr shill and delegater. He is the unamed source most of the media uses to get dirt on colleges that compete with Texas for high school talent. His assistants eventually get fed up and leave because Mack is essentially lazy.
That’s a bunch of contrived bullshit. Mack was a feared coach wherever he went, and the ACC was happy to see him leave UNC. When you go to Texas, you do as the Romans do. You play bullshit politics. That’s how it works down there. If you didn’t realize that after idiot boy’s presidency, consider yourself ejumicated.
But being an unnamed source against his recruiting competitors? What kind of bullshit is that? I will accuse Texas politicians of a lot of dirty shit, but I will never accuse them of doing any of it in hiding. The special part of Texas politics is that they do it to your face, and they tell you that you like it.
And you have another thing swapped. Yes, the Texas governor is just a figurehead. Everyone knows that it’s the LT who gets stuff done in that state. But that’s not necessarily true of the UT football team. Maybe it was last year? Maybe Coach Mack needs for last year not to repeat itself.
I tried to “digest” the loss and I threw up in my mouth!
Thanks. I needed something to make me laugh.
Right on.
Riley has to start Katz against Wisconsin, for lots of reasons. It would be wonderful if Katz succeeds. But it’s much more likely that Katz will fail. As noted throughout Fall camp, Katz locks on his primary receiver, has problems seeing the whole field, and lacks poise under pressure. None of that is going to change between now and this Saturday.
For the past few years, Katz has received excessive praise for his strong arm, and not enough criticism for his serious flaws. It appears that Katz did not do much or anything in the off-season to fix those flaws (if indeed they were fixable). Part of it may have been Katz’s broken wrist, which kept Katz out of spring camp. Part of it may have been complacency fueled by the overly flattering press reports about his “cannon” arm. Part of it may have been underestimating how fast Mannion would develop during Fall camp. Regardless, Katz now suddenly finds himself in trouble.
To make it worse, Katz will be feeling extra pressure on Saturday. It’s not just that Katz will be facing a top 10 team on national TV. It’s that there is now officially a QB competition/controversy. Katz knows that all eyes will be on him on Saturday. The TV announcers will be talking about him, looking for signs that he is struggling. Mannion will be waiting to come in if Katz falters. And Katz knows that a strong performance by Mannion against Wisconsin could elevate Mannion to the role of starting QB against UCLA the following week, when PAC-12 play begins.
Look at this from Katz’s perspective. Coming into the Sac State game, Katz was entrenched as the Beavers’ starting QB, with a real possibility of an NFL career based on his alleged golden arm. One day later, more than 2/3 of the voters in an OregonLive poll want Riley to bench Katz and start Mannion. And Riley’s wishy-washy statements to the press can’t give Katz much comfort. Katz is suddenly faced — in week two of the season — with the possible loss of his starting job, and his NFL dream. This could be Katz’s “Wally Pipp” moment. And he knows it.
That’s pressure. As noted, Katz hasn’t handled pressure all that well in the past. I’m hoping Katz can rise to the challenge on Saturday. But hope, as they say, is not a strategy….
Agreed on your assessment of Katz. The interesting piece of this is that we have a bye after Wisconsin. It will allow the team to lick their wounds and two weeks to groom Mannion as the starter. I think they start Katz to give him one more chance. It also prevents Mannion from losing his confidence after getting murdered by a top 10 team on the road. I think the bye week is the key part of all this.
I don’t get this trend. Everybody on here has written off Katz and said his play has doomed him. They also have said that he won’t last as the starter, however you think we should start him anyways and let Mannion come in and play after he falters. I can’t disagree with this more. If they are going to go with Mannion then let him start. Give him the most reps during the week, let both QB’s know what the situation is and let him prepared as the starter. It’s one thing to come in when you are not prepared and you just “play” and react to the game and sometimes are looser. Now if Mannion sits around waiting “am I going in?” or “how much longer do they take to put me in”. I don’t like that. I say name one the starter have that player prepare as the starter and stick with him as long as you are in the game. If the game is out of reach then you could play both QB’s. If they plan on playing Mannion for an extended amount of time, then they might as well start him and let him get the experience. The only thing I would worry about is him getting hurt. But you got get your nose bloodied at some point. I just don’t think the idea of starting Katz because he has the experience and then pull him when is starts missing a few throws would be determental. We dont’ want the QB to be looking over their shoulder and seeing if the backup is getting warm.
It’s kind of tough for me to throw Katz out because of one bad half. I think most of us lived through Matt Moore’s first season or the Canfield/Moevao debacle at home against Cincinnati. Katz was better than that last season, but his play against Sac.St was oddly uninspired. That interception was atroocius and on another play he didn’t even try to find a passing lane and just threw the ball into the D-lineman. I don’t know, maybe Riley and staff have seen the future and it is Mannion. They just don’t have the guts to completely go for it yet. If Katz outright losses the job, I would think he would hit the road and try to reclaim his career somewhere else.
In most situations, I would agree with you. I hate it when coaches pull players right after they make a mistake. Players can’t perform well when they are constantly looking over their shoulder, afraid of being yanked.
However, this is not most situations. Here, I think Riley needs to start Katz against Wisconsin, even if Riley expects Katz to fail. This QB situation needs to be resolved asap, for the good of the team. The best way to resolve it is to start Katz, and to give Katz a genuine chance to succeed.
A lot of people on the team would probably be upset if Katz were not given this chance. This could fester and end up destroying team chemistry. Get this done now, one way or another, by giving Katz his shot at Wisconsin.
If Katz performs badly, after being given a fair chance, it’s the right time to make a change (with the bye week coming up, followed by the start of the PAC-12 season). Katz would probably feel he had been treated unfairly. But most or all of Katz’s teammates could probably understand and accept the change, at that point, as being for the good of the team. And from that point forward, it’s Mannion’s team (for the reasons you explain…)
Yes. In a perverse way, the timing of the upcoming game at Wisconsin is good.
If Katz and the offense do well against Wisconsin, that should give everyone renewed optimism and momentum heading into the PAC-12 season, and help to put the Sac State debacle in the rear view mirror.
If (as is more likely) things go badly at Wisconsin, Riley can use the bye week to make the transition to Mannion as starting QB. This will again provide a reason for optimism (and a way to rationalize and put in the past the ugly start to the season, by blaming our offensive woes in large part on an ineffective Ryan Katz).
Either way, Beaver Nation may well be feeling more upbeat about OSU’s offense after the game against Wisconsin than we do right now.
Of course, OSU has some issues on defense as well. It will be interesting to see how our undersized d-line handles Wisconsin’s beef up front (Wisconsin’s starting o-line averages 6’5″ and 322 lbs). But that’s another story…..
My brother was at the game and he confirmed what I thought I was seeing in the shitty internet feed:the offense was drastically different with Mannion under center.
Let me just throw this out there…what if the offensive line’s “problem” last year wasn’t Quizz?
What if it was Katz?
I think that’s a valid question after just watching the offense line up for the first play of the second half. There’s absolutely no reason for it, but the whole unit looked for once like it had a purpose. I don’t know why I’ve never seen that with Katz under center. I don’t know how even the meekest of players could kill a huddle so as to make such a differential.
Maybe Mannion just knows what a huddle is for? Maybe he brought bottle-caps with him?
I think the O-line feels less pressure having Mannion, who is new himself. They probably feel more confident in knowing they don’t have the pressure.
WTD is probably the worst statement ever and it is way overhyped. The statement implies that if you do what you are supposed to today then everything else will take care of itself. The reality is, if you focus on today alone then you haven’t set long term goals.
I disagree with this. If you win the day 7 times then you’ve won the week. Do that 4 times and you win the month. Etc. That is a long term goal.
The problem I have with WTD is that why limit it to “the day”? Why not “win the milli-second”? That makes logical sense to me since a day is made up of smaller units that need to be won in order for the day to be won.
Right I don’t disagree with your sentiment but Chip Kelly is so focused in the here and now and he brings that to his players. His philosophy is so focused on the day, he is not asking anyone to make long term goals. What is the point of winning the day if you aren’t moving towards a goal. The goal in football is a championship but the damn thing has taken on a mind of its own. It is transcending football and that is my issue. People are forgetting that winning the day is not enough when you aren’t moving towards something.
I think the idea is that if the players win the day, they win the week, and if they win the week, they win the month, and if they win the month, they win the season.
I think they all know that’s the ultimate goal, and winning each day is a means to it. By definition that’s true. So, it’s not a bad theory.
Problem is it should be smaller increments than a day. To win a day you have to first win the milli-second! (insert infinity symbol)
Right but I think that is narrows the lens. I agree that practicing well every day is important but it is too simple of a view. I think looking at the big picture is always more important.
Regarding QBs: Start Katz, and have Mannion ready.
I can’t see us winning a game this season. Do you think if I email Riley he will send me a refund for my season tickets? This will probably be the last season I buy tickets if this is the shitty product they put on the field. What a disgrace. Sac St. is a MID-LEVEL Big sky team. Wisconsin will absolutely murder us. How bad will the Civil War be. Oregon is going to put 100 on us. Oh the misery!
Perhaps your message would have more impact if you sent your e-mail to President Ray. Just a thought.
Our HC is not Chip Kelly
EVERYONE SEND EMAILS TO PRESIDENT RAY.
http://oregonstate.edu/tools/mailform?to=pres.office@oregonstate.edu&recipient=President%27s+Office
Ed Ray is not Riley’s boss.
Follow the money. With the announced Pac-12 TV deals, Ed Ray is Bob D’s b…. whoops – family blog, right?
Good thing being part of Pac 12 keeps OSU above the whole collegiate-athletes-as-unpaid-labor-for-profit fray…
The game at Wisconsin is going to be U-G-L-Y:
1) Wisconsin’s QB had the kind of game last Saturday that Katz SHOULD have had against Sac State, extremely efficient with some big throws;
2) Wilson throws MUCH better than Sac State’s, and when OSU plays the same kind of pass coverage technique that resulted in a one-point loss to Sac State, it will result in big plays for Wisconsin, resulting in;
3) Their O-line, as noted, averages 322 lbs -0 what’s OSU’s D-line average – 260-270? This will wear down OSU’s linebackers and safeties, who I hope don’t get hurt;
4) they have a group of good-sized RB’s that will take advantage of the O-line’s beef;
5) Katz is not confident, nor is he making the quick decisions and check-downs he said he needed to before Sac State;
6) Wisconsin can safely play the run and ask Katz/Mannion to beat them – on the road, with a full, rowdy house;
7) It’s an early morning game, and OSU, despite a change in practice schedules this week, is likely to be off;
8) its a non-conference road game, on tv, in a hostile environment, a with an odd time – when has OSU ever won under these conditions? and
9) OSU’s player’s confidence will be demolished early in the third – they’ll play the technique they’re taught, they’ll run the plays that are called, and neither will work and they’ll question themselves, leading to over-thinking, slow reactions, and a loss of morale.
I am starting feel sorry for the player’s because they’re simply not being put in the best position to use their abilities.
And another thing – Katz supposedly worked on his leadership this off-season, was going to be more vocal, etc. (list the rhetoric). The guy was not elected a team captain?!?
That says something significant.
As pointed out by others earlier this off-season, this team lack leadership, and in the right spots.
Based on this weekend’s results, Oregon State’s track is now for a 4-8 regular season based on the power rating updates. No game fluctuated enough to change the predicted winner, based on both the Beavers’ performances AND those of their upcoming opponents.
Projected Wins: UCLA, Arizona, @ Washington State (Seattle), Washington
Will update again after next week’s games.
Post Week 1 Power Rankings for the Pac-12:
PAC-12
Stanford 142.91
Oregon 141.49
Arizona St 134.32
USC 128.62
Utah 127.68
Washington 126.01
Arizona 125.85
UCLA 122.70
Oregon St 122.59
California 121.32
Washington St 120.09
Colorado 118.88
I definitely could tell there was a HUGE difference between Katz and Mannion on Saturday. An offensive doesn’t go looking from awful to decent just because Cavanaugh gave them a tongue lashing. Mannion to me just seems to be a better leader. Run blocking and pass blocking were much better and the team just seemed for confident as a whole. There was a new attitude. Mannion didn’t just hold the ball and stare at one guy, he scanned the field and wanted to get the ball out of his hands. He shifted himself in the pocket to create the best possible throwing lanes.
Just a thought, the O-Line was bad last year but did Katz make it worse? If the lineman see a guy in Katz who’s scared and looks lost and is showing no leadership they just aren’t going to give their absolute best.
People say the play calling is bad but for Katz but he had chances to go downfield but he just held the ball and took sacks or took off running instead of looking for a receiver. He would stare at a receiver and look nowhere else. That INT when he was trying to throw to Cooks was an example of this. That pass had no shot of being completed. Parker and Wilson said during the game that Agnew I think it was? was open and he never even got looked at. Katz stared down Cooks who had a CB all over him.
Katz flat out was afraid to throw the ball deep. I expected him to step up this year but he looked to have regressed. It was pathetic.
I can understand why Kat would start. You wanna give him another chance to prove himself and you don’t wanna split up the team. I think Katz has a horrible start and mid to late second half Mannion takes over.
What I like about Mannion is he has some touch and doesn’t try to always throw it as hard as he can. He has some touch. He seems more ready to play than any Beaver QB at this stage since maybe Jonathon Smith. People say it was just one half but Smith had just over a half vs Washington and never looked back and Mannion is a much more accurate thrower IMO. When he gets his full time chance he will take off. There will be some ups and downs with him since he’s young but I can see a brighter future with him under center.
I’ve been told that Katz works his ass off but I see no improvements. What has he been working on?
After the Wisconsin game Mannion will be the starter.
It’s funny how much the Beavers writers are backing Katz and not giving Mannion the credit he deserves. All I hear is how Katz was against the Arizona schools and that he will be like that again. It’s been 8 games since and he’s averaging 169 yds/gm and has 9 touchdowns and 11 interceptions since. He had 9 touchdowns and 10 interceptions after the AZ game last year. So statistically speaking he had the best year under Riley as a first year starter but let’s be real, post AZ he was quite bad. Under Riley QB’s show some improvements, sometimes slowly but they improve nonetheless. QB’s under him don’t usually get worse as each game goes by and that’s what has happened. Teams adjusted and he refuses to. His solution is stare harder at one receiver and try and throw as hard as he can. It’s frustrating to watch. I love how the writers also love to place all the blame on the coaches and and offensive line. O-Line and play calling haven’t been good but he’s shown a lack of leadership and an inability to adjust. Former QB’s under Riley have struggled but none have struggled against an FCS school like Katz did.
Check this article out http://www.csnnw.com/pages/landing?Settling-a-QB-Controversy=1&blockID=559686&feedID=10018
He defends Katz but conveniently leaves out Katz’s turnovers in games. Ridiculous. “Than again, what do I know? I’m only around the team six days a week.”. Unreal. To say that the Beavers have that much of a better shot at a bowl game with Katz compared to Mannion is ludicrous IMO. How is he viewed as “The Man” when he wasn’t even a captain? His teammates clearly don’t view him as “The Man”.
It was only one half vs a FCS team, though. Between the NFL and NCAA, I’ve seen dozens of QBs have great halves and then fall into obscurity. Heck, D.A. in Cleveland did this every week.
That’s why Katz should start but only get a short leash.
People are too high on Mannion due to this one game. Everyone was raving about Sean Canfield when he came in for Matt Moore briefly in ’06. Turns out the more we saw him the more it became obvious he wasn’t ready yet.
Exactly. I am more skeptical of Mannion’s good half than Katz’s bad half.
Your stats showing how Katz declined can be shown to exhibit something else. The effect a healthy JR has on the offense. I bet Katz would have played a lot better with JR catching balls (but then again any QB probably would have). We may have a Katz lean based on early performance last year when that performance may just be propped up by JR.
I’d agree about James. No CB could cover him and he could get open whenever he wanted to. So Kat could zero in on him and still get completed. Wheaton is good but he’s not as good as James was last year. Katz doesn’t have a guy to rescue him and mask his faults as a QB. He had a good game vs ASU minus Rodgers but that probably was an aberration. In this Wisconsin game Katz will have his chance to prove himself and prove he is indeed the best QB for this team. There will be no excuses if he fails.
I just read that blog post. That’s not biased at all. ;)
I think we need to remember that we’ve never had any success with a frosh QB who comes in and mounts a comeback only to lose on a two point conversion to end the game.
It’s not Mannion lost the game. He helped it? So whats your point?
That being said, the line suddenly could pass block when Mannion came in. I don’t know if this is a sign they hate Katz or what. It was uncanny.
I posted this a couple hours ago in response to a discussion farther up the page…it applies here to so I’ll repost it:
My brother was at the game and he confirmed what I thought I was seeing in the shitty internet feed:the offense was drastically different with Mannion under center.
Let me just throw this out there…what if the offensive line’s “problem” last year wasn’t Quizz?
What if it was Katz?
I agree. It was the weirdest thing. An O-Line doesn’t go from looking terrible to looking good just because they got yelled at in the locker room at halftime. There’s definitely more to it than they just played better. They played with the attitude that we kept hearing about. Mannion had to have really gotten in their face before they ran on the field for play.
Probably multiple reasons why our pass blocking improved in the second half, including:
– more effort and determination after a terrible first half performance
– halftime tongue lashing (and perhaps threats of benching) from Cav
– halftime adjustments to stunts and blitzes shown by Sac State in first half
– success of Beaver run game in 2d half, which resulted in:
— more confidence for our o-line
— more pressure (mental and physical) on their d-line
– the Sac State d-line running out of gas in the second half against our physically superior o-line
But part of the o-line’s obvious improvement in the second half may well have been due to Mannion.
The o-line came into the Sac State game with a chip on its collective shoulder, eager to show improvement from last year. The first half debacle had to be hard to swallow. Instead of the expected domination of Sac State, it was deja vu from the 2010 season, with Katz taking sacks, getting balls batted down, and failing to find open receivers. Depressing and deflating stuff.
The second half provided a fresh start, with a young, enthusiastic QB, minus all of Katz’s baggage. At 6’5″, Mannion has physical presence in the huddle and at the line of scrimmage (along with the height to see and throw over linemen). The o-line knows, from Fall camp practices, that Mannion throws better on the run than Katz, and does a better job of getting rid of the ball to avoid taking sacks. The team starts having some success against Sac State. The confidence of Mannion and the o-line rise together, and the offense finally generates some momentum. The offense gets on a roll, and the Sac State defense falls back on its heels. Etc.
In other words, I don’t think the o-line hates Katz. But I do think the o-line may have lost confidence in Katz at some point in the first half (maybe early in the first half, when Katz threw that interception). And I strongly suspect that Mannion, at this point, inspires more confidence in the o-line than does Katz (which, of course, says a ton about both Katz and Mannion).
The problem with any analysis is that the o-line’s attitude and play were apparent on Mannion’s very first snap. Hell, it was apparent when they were stepping to the line. For a second I thought Katz looked refreshed and ready for the second half… until I saw the number on the jersey.
What was obvious was that Mannion’s feet were SOOOO much better than Katz’ were. As for mobility, Mannion never had happy feet. He stood still, and he shuffled just right to see his lanes, but he never bounced around or shrouded himself in fear. And he did have a nice scramble for a first down when all else failed.
But what was impressive was Mannion’s hands. He obviously has much better touch than Katz does. I’ve always wanted Katz to gain some sort of touch to go along with his arm, and everyone seems enamored with his arm strength to the point of being overly forgiving of his lack of touch. But that touch carries to the running game as well. It was apparent that Agnew got the ball in the sweet spot more quickly and in synch on the very first play of the second half. And I kept watching it happen time and again. That’s why I started drooling over the play action possibilities. And that’s why the play action worked to perfection on the 2PAT. Mannion two-handed that sucker right in synch with all the other running plays, and Agnew sold it well enough for Mannion to have all day to survey the short field.
Long story short… his hands showed touch on every level and with every detail. The 2PAT wasn’t chucked Tommy Kramer style. It was just flicked to the back of the endzone. The long pass to Wheaton wasn’t chucked on a rope only to go over his head. It was dropped in the bucket. Btw, part of Wheaton being so wide open was that the ball was thrown to a place he could run to. Even check downs were dropped over the line to the TE or RB’s with a simple toss. There was one batted ball, but I watched Mannion as the ball was knocked, and he didn’t seem to care.
And still, all that being said I think our best chance to win comes with Katz starting and Mannion platooning for this year. The two QB system can work by keeping defenses honest in game prep, and it can provide an out for Riley not having to just toss Katz aside for a frosh. It also puts no pressure on Mannion as a starter. He can develop his starting role later in his career. Right now he shows that he’s good in middle relief and has the potential to be great in that role and as good as a closer. Let him refine those roles if necessary before throwing him to the wolves.
Just to be clear, I think the platoon idea would give both QB’s cover, but I also think it provides them both an opportunity to learn from each other. Katz needs Mannion’s poise and fundamentals, and Mannion needs Katz’ experience. Giving them each reps with the first team provides this, and we really have nothing to lose anyway.
Platooning Katz and Mannion raises a lot of questions.
How long do you stick with the platoon system if Mannion clearly outperforms Katz each game (as Mannion did against Sac State)? If Mannion plays better but Katz keeps getting substantial playing time, what does that say to the players (and fans) about OSU’s dedication to winning games this season? Does this risk splitting the team for the whole season? And what about next season (since Katz is a junior and will be back)?
I agree that platooning can work in some situations. But if Katz fails this week against Wisconsin, and if Mannion again steps up and plays well, I think Riley can and should pull the trigger and make Mannion the starter.
Yes, it’s a risk, on several levels. But as you say “we really have nothing to lose anyway”. And there’s a chance that Mannion will be the spark that ignites this team. Other than Brandon Sprague, no one would say that of Ryan Katz anymore….
Who’s Brandon Sprague? i’ve seen the name, but who is he?
And I say we stick with a platoon situation as long as there is no clear choice. If Katz is not a gamer, then he needs to eventually step aside. But until Mannion shows he can play consistently at this level against these teams, then we might as well throw the kitchen sink at everyone. And if Katz does play well sometime in the next couple games, do we trust HIM to be consistent?
Hey! I just noticed that blog post about the QB controversy was by him. Oh well. It doesn’t make that post or him any better or more respected.
Apparently Mr. Sprague’s interest in Beavs football does not extend to a time when we had another frosh take the reins in a Riley system (a walk-on frosh at that).
Brandon Sprague covers the Beavers for Comcast Sports Net (CSN) and authors the Beaver Believer Blog. Sprague just published a blog post arguing that everyone is overreacting, and that Katz should be the full-time QB this season: http://www.csnnw.com/pages/landing?Settling-a-QB-Controversy=1&blockID=559686&feedID=10018&qv=1#bp
Sprague appears to be a typical young, local sports blogger. He’s got a sweet gig –hanging around the OSU coaches and players and getting his 15 minutes of reflected fame — and doesn’t want to screw up his access by being critical. So we get insightful blog entries telling us “Katz has the strongest arm of the two, is more game ready, and is viewed among his teammates as ‘the man’.” Okay.
As for platooning, I agree that it makes sense ‘as long as there is no clear choice’. But if Katz face-plants against Wisconsin, and Mannion comes in and plays well, I think the choice IS clear. If not, we can and should play both Katz and Mannion until one clearly outshines the other. In that horserace, my money is on Mannion, and sooner rather than later….
Our posts crossed….oh well.
I agree with this sentiment for the most part. But what became clear on Saturday is that this Beavs team now has an identity of a run first squad. I don’t care that it was Sac State as much as I care that our o-line finally executed consistently in the run game. It’s the one thing that will save us against Wisconsin, and we should just pound it time after time on UCLA with an added bonus of pancaking Owa as much as we can. I’m expecting this scheme to be prevalent in this week’s game, and I’m expecting Katz to benefit from it if only a little bit. But I think Bielema is quick enough in-game to adjust to Katz’ game, and that’s why a platooning frosh can counter those adjustments. I expect the same increased poise and pounding to take place if that were to happen. Then it’s just up to Riley to recognize defensive adjustments and make the proper play-calls.
I don’t know if that saves our defense from precisely the same mentality from our opponent, but I think it gives the “sooner rather than later” timeline a more conservative feeling.
I laughed when he dismissed the 4″ height difference as not being important. Given equal talent, I would take a taller QB anyday and 4″ is a big difference!
I agree BB21. Katz at Wisconsin is a guaranteed loss with nothing learned. We have seen this act enough times already. Mannion playing the game is interesting to watch and you know he would learn alot from it. I also firmly believe Mannion gives us the greatest chance to win games the rest of the year. Maybe like Quizz learning from playing Penn St and then having the great USC game in 2008. I read that QB article as well. Mannion shifts his feet to improve the passing lanes because he understands he has to move the chains and doesn’t make excuses. That author thinks Mannion would get sacked much more frequently but it simply is not true. He is smart enough to not take sacks unless absolutely necessary unlike Katz who took so many that ABSOLUTELY killed drives last year. Mannion would just throw it out of bounds if he really had to or is effective enough as a leader to have his guys know to be looking to not leave him or the team in a jam.
Mannion does have some touch but I saw the signs of real leadership for most of that second half. He was comfortable. He was leading the team on drives, not “oops we didn’t convert another 3rd down..oh well.” His dad is a winner too. I honestly think his dad could be a better coach than Riley just based on demeanor. If I was a talented young 18 year old with confidence and some swagger I would not be first looking towards Riley. He is too soft spoken and obviously can’t get his team ready to start a season. I just think the PAC-12 may be too big for Riley now. Him and BDC are doing very little to actualy grow fan support and push the program as nationally relevant. Every interview he gives seems full of doubt. It is the last thing you want from a coach. Compare that to Kyle Whittingham who seems very confident that he can coach his guys to wins week after week. Riley completely had doubts about Sac St and that is partly why we lost. Is he ever confident? No, not really!
Start Mannion.
Fire Banker.
Salvage the season before it’s too late.
Start Mannion vs UCLA. That’s when they need to start winning games. He will play vs Wisconsin. Banker has to go I agree. Can we get rid of Heyward too? Him and Banker both are contributing to the bad technique of not turning their heads to look back for the ball. Langsdorf should be stripped of play calling duties. Give them to Locey or Riley. Langsdorf is a solid coach as far as working with players in practice but during the game I swear he uses the same 5 plays over and over again. The Beavers would have to wait till after the season to get rid of Heyward and Banker. Who would step in on an interim basis?
Since we were on rock earlier, Google is playing a tribute to Freddie Mercury today. I disagree with their song choice, but I like the cartoon vid for it. And I have to laugh at the “I want to break free” reference within it.
But I think this would have been a more suitable song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L8-FTvSVxs&feature=related
And, in the end, I think they should have just ditched it all and played this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3xwCkhmies&feature=related
coda-first out
more relevant, should i lay the 21 on Wisky?
It’s hard to say. Are we going to be that team who plays to the level of our competition, or are we just gonna suck? Our strengths line up well against their strengths. And our potential strengths (read: what should be our offense) line up well against their weaknesses. But there’s that pesky running QB situation once again.
I’d ignore that line all together. It seems fair.
I think Hawaii +5 vs Washington is a much better bet.
I like Michigan +3.5 vs ND, too.
(this is not a solicitation to buy!)
Hawaii off island, and WA on a bounce-back game…no go for me.
You’re late on that line. You should have got it when it opened in the teens. That was easy money then.
I’m clearly late to this party, but I needed the weekend to work through my PTSD from this weekend’s game.
I agree with Angry’s post whole-heartedly. I have believed in Riley. He is a great human being. But his tank is on E. He can’t benefit this program any more. It’s time to take the uncomfortable step of removing Riley and bringing in new blood. This program needs a new identity.
From today’s Wall Street Journal:
“Why Beavers are braver than Badgers”
It may not look like it, but Saturday’s OSU-Wisconsin game is a fascinating matchup: the most courageous program in college football-
OSU’s Beavers-against, well, the opposite.
Wisconsin is 29-0 in non-con games since 2003 (combined record of opponents is .314, while the Beavers opponents during the same period is .758).
I won’t quote the reference to Sac St.
Is it to early to make a bowl of popcorn?
http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1261031
Grain of salt on the Texas propaganda piece linked above:
http://brett-mcmurphy.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/29532522/31764547
Not small enough to be a grain of salt… more like a chunk of halite:
http://hamptonroads.com/2011/09/va-tech-were-not-interested-sec
See how Texas does this? They float their ideas as if they’re other people’s ideas, and they’re just “reporting” on it all. But they’re really using their Rivals site as a mouthpiece to send feelers out to their hopeful landing spots. Their TV deal with ESPN killed the Big XII-III, and it will kill any hope of theirs to control their own destiny within any other conference. In the end, they stick with a watered down Big XII by bringing on half the MWC or CUSA… and saying goodbye to the Okies (and possibly others), they go independent, or they come to Larry with their hat in hand.
I believe the PAC-16 is in the best interests of Texas. Oklahoma and Texas support pods from what I have heard. Texas needs to be with a great commissioner like Scott and in a league that can rival the SEC. Larry Scott with the right teams will continue to hit home runs for the conference. Texas can then show A&M that they and Oklahoma landed in just as powerful a conference and one that is more cutting-edge. I also think Scott would be fairly accomodating with the LHN. It would get reworked into a regional network but the Longhorns will come off better to the rest of the nation if they down it town just a tad. They then can focus on the football and beating Oklahoma to try to host a PAC championship unless they start using the Rose Bowl and Jerry World. I think OU likes the idea of hosting quite a few PAC championships in Norman, and I personally think that model could still be in the best interests of the conference. OU really likes the academic profile the PAC would provide them to make them an AAU university and if somehow Texas does not also come, OU would really get to be the primary force in the East and the Red River Rivalry would not affect the PAC-16 race and ability to get to the Rose Bowl or potentially win the PAC and get in the national championship. In that scenario KU and MU may be the final pairing and that would have basketball benefits so even though we would not be quite the juggernaut without UT, OU could make it where it was still good for them and overall for the PAC it wouldn’t be much of a dropoff.
I feel the PAC needs a couple more of the biggest guns though to properly rival the SEC because Utah and Colorado did not make us stronger, just capable of holding a PAC championship. Utah gives us a little strength but for now UC takes some away. The SEC is so good though that to be seen at the same level of power it would be best with OU and UT. One writer proposed a PAC-18 and even though I do not love the symmetry if you also added KU and MU you may help bolster the rivalries in the east and add 2 more schools that we are unlikely to get as good of picks as for beyond 16 teams in the next 20 years. They make an interesting pair because of the Border War and you give basketball another traditional power. In this sceanrio the writer proposed UC playing in the west for football and Arizona St in the west for baseball. I could see UC liking some extra west games and don’t think this is impossible. It also potentially could be in our interest to really secure the region as solidly as we can so OU and UT are extremely happy for the long haul. Most of the experts think the mega conferences will end at 20 teams each and may have a period at 18 teams after 16 teams.
Even though I like 16 teams for the structure a tad more, for us if we secured a great 18 now it might make sense. The other conferences have more options and could all get to 18 teams too when they wanted. Without KU and MU I don’t think the PAC would go past 16 for quite awhile. Something to consider and could maybe even help secure UT. Some of the Pac-12 teams are not as much firepower as we need so I do think Scott has to bring in some added muscle so the whole is as prestigious and premier as we can be and the culture can grow into greatness in the West.
Here is the article on KU and MU for a PAC-18. This is BleacherReport but surprisingly this one is well written. Worth a read:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/834604-why-ou-and-the-pac-12-would-be-wise-to-bring-kansas-and-missouri-too
I’m still not sold on UT coming to the Pac X. I’ll accept the Okies, and I love the Idea of bringing Mizzou and KU into the fold as well. But if we went to 18, I would call on Rice and Hawai’i to fill out each side. Both easily fit academically, and both have the bones to make facility upgrades worthy of a BCS contender should they suddenly be flush with cash. Rice Stadium is 70k large and has a historical significance greater than its size, having hosted a Super Bowl and being the location of Kennedy’s “man to the moon” speech.
I think UT goes indy or gets stuck with a diminished Big XII and their LHN. If that’s the case, then Rice would be more desirable as a metropolitan Texas school who could play SEC opponent and rival e-aTm-e as well as indy rival UT on what would surely be contributing cash appearances on network TV. And UH stops losing in-state talent with a Pac 18 berth. Both schools would see an uptick in athletic prestige by simply being in a BCS conference. And Hawai’i adds an extra game to every opponent’s schedule who plays on the rock as well as one for them every year. A half-dozen games might not be enticing for new TV revenues, but an extra home game once every two years might make the individual pieces of the league like such an opportunity.
But I guess the biggest boost to revenue would be original four proposed last year, and people are more interested in revenue than anything else. Hell, I could go to 20 schools if I thought we wanted to pick up fly-overs who are academically viable in Colorado State, UNM or KSU. But I think we start to sag under that weight, and (again) we don’t get to justify it revenue-wise.
Just a thought. What about adding SMU? They play in the old cotton bowl I believe, and they also play in Dallas. Their program is getting better and better and could be a good fit. They’re decent academically I believe. I’d like to see them add Rice and SMU along with Kansas, Missouri, OK State and Oklahoma. That would be a great conference in my eyes.
I think SMU would fit in every aspect except as a research institution. Houston is a commuter school who has stated a wont to be more of a research instituion, but they are behind UTEP and TTech in that goal. The big three in Texas for research are Rice, UT and aTm. They all spend about $700m annually, but Rice is about one-tenth the size of the other two.
I think adding SMU would be like adding the AFA, and I would rather have the AFA.
Besides, I would love to see the LSJUMB and the MOB go at it for a halftime show.
Reporters saying on Twitter that Mannion is taking the reps with the 1’s and Katz with the 2’s.
Mannion looked good against Sac St., but if Riley and Langsdorf think that will translate to production this Saturday, they have lost it. This move suggests they are very worried about this team.
I know it was a different circumstance for Katz and Mannion but I have never been a huge Katz fan. The fact this debate even exists is reason enough to go with the freshman.
Hello? Did you see last week’s game? If you were the coach of that team, wouldn’t you be worried about it?
Cripes! As a fan, I would be extra worried if my coaches weren’t worried themselves.
You can at least be cynical and suggest that Riley’s mailing it in for next year’s success and getting cover with that reasoning for a possible poor showing this season. But I think the consensus is that Mannion should get the opportunity.
What could go wrong? Katz is still on the bench if Mannion does poorly… as are Vaz, Lomax and Harrington. If you think it will shatter Katz’ confidence to be benched for a frosh, I have one question for you:
What confidence?
Mannion earned the starting job, and Katz deserves to lose it. He started all last year and we went 5-7 and he lost us the game saturday. Katz is lucky the coachs gave Mannion a year to get stronger cause he would have taken over last year if I was a coach. katz has had plenty of opportunity and has done zero to keep his job. I love how Mannion plays the game he is a true leader with the poise and ability to LEAD this team. Katz is a solid back up tho.
Jezuz, yeah of course they’re worried. Odds are we are going to get beaten like a mound charging Robin Ventura. But this i quick hook, indicating they are irrationally worried. Worried to the point of making unnecessary changes.
Don’t want them to throw the proverbial baby out.
Katz didn’t have a great game against Sac St., but the reasons are debatable (play calling, line play, indecision, etc.). But he’s played on a big stage before and experience will be important against Wisconsin. Poise is required.
Maybe Mannion is the second coming and plays great Saturday. I think a switch this week is getting ahead of ourselves.
I’m not arguing against the quick hook. I was ready to see a platoon situation if need be. But if Katz isn’t going to show poise within a game plan that he had practiced for a week to play against a 1-AA team, then why are we supposed to expect him to miraculously have it against Wisconsin? His experience should have given him the opportunity to audible out of any pass play for a run instead, and he could have justified it by telling the coaches that he read the defense correctly and saw that what was called wouldn’t work. But he chose to ignore opportunity and try instead to make check-downs look like he was forcing passes to the flats.
Mannion got the benefit of a more conservative scheme due to inexperience, and he made it look like he was playing in a more wide open offense than Katz was. For all the gruff about the last few seconds of regulation with not centering the ball, I think we forget that Mannion never made any mistakes that would cost the game. He was asked to manage a more conservative scheme, and he did more than manage it. He put us in position to win with a 14 play drive over 73 yards with 2:35 to play. That’s pretty damn good management for even the most experienced QB in my book. I’ll forgive similar minutia if it means he puts us in a position to win games. I’ll still be frustrated with the minutia if it costs us like it might have in this one, because I think he should learn from those little mistakes. But he seemed to do everything else right, and he did give us a chance to win a game that a lot of people thought was a lost cause at one point.
Yes, this does show that Riley is worried. That’s good.
Riley is sending a loud message to everyone with this dramatic move. That’s good, too.
Katz must be in shock. Some of his teammates, too. That’s not necessarily good.
But if Mannion performs well against Wisconsin this Saturday (assuming Mannion is now #1), most everyone (except Katz) will probably come to accept the wisdom of this move, and get excited again about the Beavers and the PAC-12 season. Lord knows Beaver Nation needs that.
We wanted change? Riley gave it to us.
Now, Riley, please talk to Banker about our DB’s turning and looking for the ball, and I’ll be a happy man….
Katz may feel personal disappointment, but if the “family atmosphere” is what everyone thinks it is at OSU, then he’s supportive of this decision and would celebrate any success within its context. And any teammate who says or acts differently than fully in support is acting or speaking against team.
But it also sends a message to incoming recruits about early playing time possibilities. If you want to play big time ball early in your career, and you think you’re good enough to do it….
Good point about the recruits. JR…Quizz…Cooks…Wynn…Agnew…now Mannion.
If you pack the gear,bring it here and you’ll play. Great message for talented recruits.
Strongly agree. This may, finally, be change we can believe in. Looking forward to Riley’s press conference later today. Should be some interesting back and forth.
As for Katz, “personal disappointment” is probably putting it mildly. He may be seeing his NFL dream go “poof”. Few college athletes in Katz’s position would have the strength of character to root for Mannion to succeed. I’m just hoping that Katz can suck it up, keep any feelings of unfair treatment to himself, and not sow dissension by trying to make his Beaver teammates choose sides.
If Katz has lost the job completely, he would be wise to transfer out.
I’m with Jack on this one.
This is also continuing a more significant trend of Riley benching experience for talent.
Isn’t that what we’ve all been bitching about for years?
Exactly.
Apparently both quarterbacks already been informed who the starter is and I’m assuming it’s Mannion since he’s taking the first team reps. They both think they’re playing but Riley hasn’t said whether or not that is happening.
Fwiw I think it’s a terrible move to be starting Mannion in the next game. It’s terrible THAT IS unless you know he’s going to get his confidence destroyed and beat up physically and you’re keeping the guy you really want to be your starter for the rest of the year out of harm’s way. In other words Mannion is being used as cannon fodder. Oh, and that will shut up the fans too.
jmo
I don’t think Mannion will get too beat up. He doesn’t hold the ball like Katz does and Wisconsin didn’t exactly beat up UNLV’s QB and UNLV’s O-Line is worse than the Beavers. Mannion will be alright. Also, I don’t think Riley would start Mannion and have him get beat up just so Katz can be out of harm’s way. I’ve never heard of a coach even having a thought like that. If Riley starts Mannion it is because he wants Mannion to be the guy for the remainder of the season and beyond.
Katz is still the starter. Riley “intends” to play both in the game.
It will be a platoon situation.
We’ll “see what the future holds after this game.”
I’ve always hated the platoon at QB. Rarely ever works. Doubt it lasts longer than just a game. Katz will be really bad and Mannion will take over and play decent. Now if Riley starts Katz against UCLA after he plays bad vs Wisconsin then there will be a serious problem.
Mannion earned the right to play, and he will get that chance… started in the spring and he progressed through the fall to the point where he knew Mannion would get some spot time here and there… made us all suffer through the second quarter on Saturday because he thought Katz would bring it around, but decided at the half to throw it to Mannion… told a story about platooning QB’s at Winnipeg the year they won the Grey Cup… yes, Mannion is happy that he’s getting an opportunity, and Katz is probably down a little that he feels he’s getting something of a demotion. But they both need to be ready when they take the field and let their play speak for them.
Riley on Mannion’s stats:
He was 8-12, but two of those were spikes to stop the clock, and one was a drop by Hamlett. The other was his first play, where Riley thought he misread it. But when he asked Mannion, he was told, “I forgot the play.”
There’s your frosh jitters… one play long.
Not surprising. He wasn’t expecting to be playing with the game on the line and it was the first time he’d ever seen action in a college game. Jitters were expected. I will take the forgotten play every once in a blue moon if it means he’s going to be putting the Beavers in the best chance to win games.
this is amazing if you haven’t seen it.
http://oregonstate.scout.com/2/1103475.html
That’s pretty good. At least they’re keeping a sense of humor about it all rather than going all pollyanna on us.
If I were Riley’s gf I would totally be giving him the silent treatment right now >:((
lol