Heyward left due to money and money only.
Check out this cost of living comparison: Click Me
Based on a $105,000 salary, Heyward paid $9237 in Oregon taxes. So, Seattle is 35% more expensive than Corvallis, and the income tax differential (i.e. Washington has no State income tax) reduces that to 26.2%. Now factor in the raise. $105,000 to 124,000 (these are the figures I'm hearing). That's an 18% increase. Subtract that from the 26.2%…Heyward just took an 8.2% pay decrease to move to Seattle.
So who won?
Obviously, the Huskies. They weakened a division rival, and paid 8.2% less money to do so. They might wind up landing Shelton, Brice, Wallace, et al, too.
- Heyward is worse off. He just lost 8.2% of his purchasing power (makes me wonder if Keith studied economics or basic math in college). This figure will increase when factoring increased net income into his Federal taxes.
- Clearly the Beaver football program is worse off. They lost their best recruiter.
- Mike Riley is worse off. He looks inept for letting Heyward walk over a few thousand dollars. A raise to 120k would have kept him. Additionally, Riley risks his recruiting class, confirms his nepotism, confirms that he rewards friends who yield poor results over an up and comer getting the job done.
Riley apologists will want to blame Bob D. Trust me, Riley can get a guy a raise if he wants to. Bob D is to blame for Riley but not for letting Heyward walk.
As far as a replacement, I’d like to see Jack Beav’s recommendation of Tony White. But, if the Beavers can’t/won’t pay Heyward, I don’t see how they’ll have money for White. He’ll cost more.
I’m hearing Mitch, Aric Williams, and Daniel Drayton, though. All really bad hires IMO. Need to save this class and have solid LA connections.
Williams would be acceptable for the nepotistic banana republic on the cheap hire mentality. And he would likely be better than Heyward in a couple years.
But I want some commitments made now. And one of them is to lose the mid-major mentality. We should be hiring from mid-majors and other BCS teams, not the other way around.
Where are you hearing it was money only? I thought his g/f (wife?) was from Seattle. If I had an opportunity to take a new job and it meant moving closer to family for either myself or my wife, I’d have to consider it, even with a pay decrease (free babysitting anybody?)
Has Heyward commented publicly that his decision was purely financial?
She would have moved to Corvallis. Has family in Oregon, too.
That $124,000 figure is what they give their lowest paid assistant, not necessarily what they’ve given Heyward.
Also, I’m calling bullshit on the ‘120k would have kept him.’ and ‘this confirms [Riley’s] nepotism’ and all of that. (Ask Greg Newhouse about Riley’s nepotism.)
You’re merely speculating, because it puts Mike Riley in a bad light. I can speculate too. I speculate that we offered Heyward $150,000 and he said thanks but no thanks, it’s time to move on – I need to be closer to my fiancee.
I’d take a pay-cut to be closer to my wife if I were living 300 miles away, wouldn’t you? Plus, they’ll save money presumably living under the same roof instead of having two homes, one in Corvallis and one in Seattle. Factor in the…what, $800 a month he must have spent on housing in Corvallis and travel back and forth for visits and it probably roughly evens out.
You never miss a chance to attack Mike Riley though. I admire your tenacity.
They would save money under one roof no matter where it was. But I tend to agree. I don’t think money was the only factor. And I don’t think $124K was the number with the way Sark has been spending on his new hires.
And it might not be Riley’s fault. It might be the fault of the AD’s priorities.
People may look at this and think, “Uh.. gee golly… it’s good for OSU to have coaches hired away to better programs… duh har.”
But it’s not. At the current rates we pay assistants, mid-majors will start hiring our better coaches away from us.
And what moron thinks UW is the better program? Well… maybe their priorities are bent on making them one, and someone with a little common sense can see it and chose to go there?
*Problem with the tax notations above… Washington has a higher tax burden than does Oregon. Individuals pay close to 11% of their income on state related taxes, licenses and levies versus about 9.6% in Oregon. Those numbers put Washington at about #10 on the “most taxed” list and Oregon at about #40.
I don’t think there are many people that think it is good to have our coaches hired away (unless maybe it was Banker or Langsdorf). But I think the compensation issue here is that we have so little movement on our coaching staff that cost of living is not keeping up with the marketplace. Coaches that change jobs typically get a raise larger than 3 percent.
But I have a hard time believing that this is all about $$. I don’t think this move is good for OSU at all, but I’m pretty sure it is good for Heyward. I think he is now that much closer to the next level on a coaching staff that is moving and shaking.
Not everything has to be Riley’s fault or BDC or programatic or etc… Some things are just reallity and this may be one of those times.
It was all about money. Confirmed by someone inside the program via email.
As a Washingon resident and a former Oregon resident…I call BS on that tax breakdown. By my calculations, I pay less than 2% of my income (1% last year) to Washington State, versus the standard 9.6% to Oregon.
Sales tax excludes groceries and utilities, and gasoline is balanced by the fact that WA st doesn’t have gas attendants. So sales tax is really only levied on unnecessary (luxury) items. If those purchases are a large proportion of your spending, then you might be taxed more. That’s the whole point of a sales tax.
So you’re going to take a comprehensive tax study and counter it with three taxes and a hazy “luxury/sin” tax reference plus an incorrect mention of gas attendants balancing your whole cost of living?
Nice.
I’m telling you what I pay the government (state, city, local) living in Washington, compared to what I used to pay living in Oregon. That is concrete, and less than 2%. That fact makes me doubt the assumptions of your tax study.
The only appreciable taxes for AN INDIVIDUAL (Washington does have more business taxes) are property/income/estate in Oregon and property/sales/estate in Washington. I’m not counting estate taxes because they are not a major factor for a younger, non-wealthy person like myself (or Heyward)
Oregon income tax is 9%. Washington state sales tax is 6.5% (city/area sales taxes bring this up to as high as 9.5% in some areas, notably Seattle). But as stated above, sales taxes are only levied on a portion of your income, and a very, very small portion in my case.
Property tax rates are not significantly different, although you will pay more if the property is worth more. And that’s a city/location thing then a state thing. You’ll pay much more property tax in Portland than in Vancouver, WA. And Seattle would be higher still.
And how was the gas station attendant reference incorrect? Sure, it’s a small factor, but it’s a real factor. Washington doesn’t require an attendant to pump your gas, so gas stations hire fewer attendants. Fewer attendants on payroll reduces the operating costs of a gas station in Washington compared to Oregon. It doesn’t fully compensate for the tax, but it’s pretty close.
The gas station attendant point is false because you ignore the whole cost of living argument to concentrate on one variable.
I choose not to focus on cost of living, because many of the taxes imposed in Washington are hidden taxes on the citizens, like the 6.5 cents they pay per gallon of gas over what Oregon pays… or the business and property taxes you refer to, which are passed on to the consumers.
I’m not arguing against your overall point. I’m arguing against your logic.
What you should say is that the citizens of Washington do pay more in taxes on average, but they also bring in a lot of revenue from the transient population. And their revenues far outpace Oregon’s, which means the citizens of Washington receive more services for a cost of living which is somewhat equal to Oregon’s when hidden taxes are removed from the equation. On top of that, if you live frugally, you can avoid paying many of the direct taxes imposed on the population, further increasing the services provided per the overall tax rate imposed on an individual.
Don’t lose a good argument in the weeds. Make your case with sound reasoning is all I’m saying. Washington citizens do pay more on average to their state, but they receive at least 150% more per extra dollar spent back from the state compared to Oregon citizens, which mitigates the cost while increasing the quality of life.
There is no appreciable difference in gas prices between Portland, OR and Vancouver, WA- even with the hidden charge.
I guess what it probably comes down to is a location thing more than a state thing. Seattle is expensive for a variety of reasons, property prices (and thus taxes) being foremost. There’s alsoThe Seattle/Tacoma metro area is such an enormous proportion of the state’s population that it skews any numbers for Washington residents.
By contrast, Vancouver has to compete with Portland for pricing on most goods, which mitigates the effect on the consumer of hidden charges such as business taxes.
I saw 124k mentioned as the figure. Hopefully it’s more, because if it’s only 124k then everyone but WA got hosed.
JackBeav, good point regarding tax burden. Homes are what is most costly in WA, and that can’t be avoided. Maybe some of the other things that make up the tax burden (e.g. sales tax, gas, etc) could be. I agree it is a very rough estimate of a complex subject. If 124k is the number, I don’t see how it adds up, though.
Is it really attacking MR or is it really about the entire athletic department culture at OSU. I think some of both. MR has finished 5th, 7th, and now 9th the last 3 years. That is with his own players and not those left behind by Erickson. Maybe the trend is headed in the wrong direction and fans are tired of spending their money to see an inferior product. People should vote with their dollars and stop buying tickets until the football team improvves.
I think that the “vote with your ticket money” philosophy is fundamentally flawed. It seems that donating more money as in Phil Knight with the O, will be what actually gets you noticed and listened to. If you are just donating your BSAF fees with your tickets.. then your actions are not going to change things one way or another. If you are donating 20x or 100x more, then maybe that is a vote for change. It works the same way in politics. I don’t like it but it is a reality. You want change, you have to pay for it. The only other way is with massive revolt or embarrassment, not likely.
If Duck fans stopped buying tickets because the team was losing and the head coach was lousy, then the AD would act/change. Wallet is always a fans strongest voice.
Personally, I would rather the Beavs have no football program than an embarrassing, second rate football program. So, if everyone stops buying tickets and they have to close down shop, that’s fine. It’s better than watching these clowns (supposedly) trying their best and still winding up a laughing stock.
As I said revolt, but it would take a large percentage of season tickets(50%? Not going to happen). Rather one or two large donors asking for change and increasing their contribution would get change done. A few season ticket holders complaining and not renewing will make 0 difference. In fact the AD might say good riddance or attribute it to the economy(which he did).
(supposedly)….bingo!
We know the athletic department can survive at least 28 years of losing without making any significant changes or uprising from Beaver fans, so looking at it that way we’ve only got 26 more years to go to forge into new territory for this program.
Anyone know of a weblink to watch the OSU/Ariz game tonight? I’m in Pittsburgh and am not going to get FSN NW, or Root or whatever, anywhere.
On Heyward – Our DBs have never been spectacular so….
I understand the recruiting impact. Hopefully it doesn’t hurt us.
subscribing
Stream for BB game: http://www.firstrow.tv/watch/101704/1/watch-oregon-st.-vs-arizona.html
Umm… if we keep Shelton, I am not entirely sure what is wrong.
We have never really had a great secondary anyway, so to hell with it.
And if Heyward found a better housing option in Seattle, then it will be difficult for him to justify NOT taking the raise, as that is most of the cost of living increase. I doubt that you know how his housing situation changed.
Uh oh!
Mark Knight @HuskyHaul 4m
So it begins RT @adamgorney #OregonSt commit Cleveland Wallace told me “everything has changed” because DB coach Keith Heyward is off to UW.
Like I said yesterday, I don’t think we’ll keep any of the CBs. Might keep a few DBs (i.e. the safeties).
Damn I hope that’s wrong. I am so sick of this crap that seems to come with being an Oregon State fan. The one thing we had to keep our hopes up for this football team after this last season was that we had a pretty solid recruiting class coming in. And now this happens. I feel like one fan base can’t possibly be this unlucky.
In the wisdom of the venerable Paul Buker, it seems far-fetched to think a potential recruit will jump ship because the DBs coach is leaving the program.
Will he ever live that one down?
LOL!
Could we have a bb thread for tonight’s game?
Yes ma’am.
this is bad. corner may have become a bigger concern than dt. triple shit
I damn near puked when I read this.
“…The athletic directors at the schools, UO’s Mullens ($458,436) and OSU’s De Carolis ($419,388), are in the same salary ballpark, though the latter is due for a new, ostensibly more lucrative contract in June….”
—————-
Most of the OSU coaching staff makes much less than their ‘uck counterparts and yet ‘ole Bobby D is making only 10% less that Mullens.
Here’s hoping that somebody put’s a bug in Dr. Ray’s ear and instead of giving Bobby a boost in pay gives him a boot out the door.
That ship has sailed. Bobby D signed on for another four or five years at $500K per year.
OMG
This is very depressing.
My outlook for OSU athletics is now on a par with my outlook for the economy. Grim times ahead.
When you total up the top 4 assistant salaries, which are the critical coaches, from OSU and Oregon, the OSU staff makes more money thanks to Banker being overpaid. MR gets the salary for Banker and BDC approves it. So pay of the assistants is a non-issue and by my thinking ours are way under-achieving!
I agree about the under-achieving but I was referring to the over-all pay of both schools.
http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=130212662027395500
Over-all. UO $8.82M OSU $5.59M
Football: UO $4.2M OSU $2.8M
That’s a lot bigger differential than it is for the 2 ADs.
Perhaps Dr. Ray isn’t much of a sports fan.
This is suicide to the fandom of the beavers…….. :(
It should also be noted that the athletic department continues to invest our money in dying sports like wrestling instead of football that pays all of the bills. The Pac-12 lists THREE real teams from our league, ASU, OSU and Stanford. They have to bring in Bakersfield, Cal Poly and Boise to call it the Pac-12. REALLY, we would never accept those teams in any other sport! The good news is that ASU is seriously thinking of dropping the sport that then we would have a 50/50 chance of being Pac-12 Champions!
If we hadn’t beaten ASU in six straight duals, dominated Boise State lately, and didn’t have wrestling already fully endowed… then you might have an argument.
The point is nobody cares about wrestling and we have it endowed, while the sport that people care about, FOOTBALL, needs more support. I never went to a wrestling match because I don’t get my kicks from watch guys grab at each others’ crotches.
People cared enough to endow it. And they care enough about track and field to pay for the facilities themselves and endow that sport (in the near future).
Your argument says to me that we don’t care enough about football to do the same.
And I would never, never ever consider doing something the way Lisa Love does. Next you’re going to tell me that Dan Guerrero is a genius AD.
No, I did not say to follow Lisa Love, but in this case she might be right. I will tell you that both Guerrero and BDC are both idiots.
All the wresting scholarships are all endowed. How many of the 85 football scholies are endowed?
Riley quote:
@Pnbuker: Riley on chance of some de-commits with Keith Heyward leaving for UW: “I suppose that’s a danger, but I’m not really worried about it.”
I’ve said it before, Mike Riley is college football’s version of Alfred E Neuman
http://1450thesportsbuzz.com/Portals/0/blog%20Images/alfred_e_neuman.jpg
Unless Angry talked specifically to Heyward, his inside information is not worth squat. When you leave a job, just like when you are let go, the real reasons are never divulged because you do not want to burn bridges. The only one for sure that knows besides Heyward is his girlfriend/fiance.So the hyperventilating speculation and the goofy caluculations about cost of living in Corvallis and Seatle are less than worthless because they lead down the wrong path. Did it ever occur to you that he was a Husky and perhaps UW played off those sympathies? I recall in an interview that Angry did last year with a recruit. Tthe recruit indicated to Angry that a change in assistant coach did not influence the ultimate decision about which school to attend. With instant messaging in today’s world, of course some guys will hear the news via text and twitter before they get a gold embossed formal briefing. Some guys that were soft may go, but they may have defected anyway. But “the sky is falling” speculation is just frankly disgusting. And you paint both students and coaches as cartoon figures. Are all recruits only loyal to the recruiter? Are all Assistant Coaches only interest in money and nothing else? Is some turnover in any organization not healthy? Can this not be tuned into a positive with a thoughtful new hire and new blood from outside the organization?
Of course this “could” be turned into a positive, the question is WILL it.
I’d like to think MR would think outside the box and show a real streak of brilliance here but the way this has been handled so far leaves little room for that kind of optimism. Hope to be proven wrong.
In view of the Fred Thompson memorial today maybe I should cut Riley some slack regarding the way the Heyward news has been handled so far. However, setting the last few days aside, there is still too much recent history for me to be optimistic.
“Did it ever occur to you that he was a Husky and perhaps UW played off those sympathies?”
That did not occur to me. Did it occur to you? I don’t think it will ever occur to me since it makes zero sense. If he is a Husky, then we are WAAAAAYYYYYY under-panicking.
“Is some turnover in any organization not healthy?”
Some turnover is healthy. This particular one is not. It is a lateral move except for the pay. Sark is out for the recruiters in the conference (the latest rumor is that he is hard after Lupoi), and KH was one of them. If he was undervalued for that aspect, then those who run the show simply small-timed him.
“Can this not be tuned into a positive with a thoughtful new hire and new blood from outside the organization?”
We can. Can Riley? We would have to invest more than we were willing to pay Heyward, and that’s not likely. It’s more likely that we get someone whose ties are within the program.
When and if Riley promotes from within, then give him crap and I will follow suit. But asking can Riley…is intellectually dishonest. Of course he can. But will he do it?
Duh, Sark is looking for recruiters and has enough jingle in his pocket to pick off talent and to screw with the opposition.
Lateral transfer, forward lateral, backward lateral…all symbolic nonsense. He left. He had his reasons, He will be hard to replace. The truth may take some time to sort out. But the sniping and snarky comments by you guys about the “terrible” techniques taught to OSU dbs, has not helped anyone feel welcome at OSU football. Some guys have been downright vicious in criticism of the staff as opposed to constructive. I suppose that buying season tickets makes everyone ENTITLED. I sometimes hope to God that OSU will not turn my kid into an entitled whiner.
matt b, your comments are right on…….
Let me try. It sure is wonderful that our db’s lead the free world in pass interference penalties because they never look back and play the ball. Mark Banker has a great sense of humor. He can laugh when his D is getting run over like road kill.
“But asking can Riley…is intellectually dishonest. Of course he can. But will he do it?”
If you want to suppose Riley’s mind, go ahead. That’s what you’re complaining about when you get after angry for supposing KH’s mind, and I agree to a certain point. But now you conveniently use it in a semantic argument?
Riley has yet to prove he will hire for the betterment of his team. He has only shown that he can make good decisions on the cheap. That’s fine if we want to continue rebuilding year after year when those good and cheap decisions each feel small-timed and go off to other teams who honor their skills.
That’s the “to a point” support you get from me. In the end, the attitudes and priorities at OSU are all that are making OSU football what it is. And those are shown most often in terms of dollars committed. Sure, you can still win on the cheap every once in a while. And sure, we all know you can spend a lot and lose more often than not.
Wouldn’t it be nice if we took a coach who could win on the cheap more often than others and gave him the resources to not have to do it on the cheap anymore? Ed Ray understands this on the academic side, and he’s working to bring in high quality instructors and researchers in order to magnify the school’s prestige. If football is as important to the school’s image as many make it out to be, then why don’t we jump start that sumuvabeach and reap some of the rewards for both the athletic and academic sides?
Nah… let’s just hire someone on the cheap instead.
Btw… most of the vitriol about the DB’s technique has been attached to Banker. Our DB’s had a few rough games transitioning out of those poor habits to start last season, but I think they improved over the year. And I think that was noticed by other Pac coaches as well. The correlation? KH took over the whole of the secondary this year.
So if your argument holds true on that front, then KH was being small-timed twofold.
We agree!
Agree that KH was being shorted since he took on more responsibility for coaching and recruiting without the acknowledgement of pay raise when new guys were hired at a higher salary. This makes a mockery of the “one big happy family” approach that Riley preaches when KH’s low pay rate made him the red headed step child, and KH saw other family members coasting yet receiving greater rewards due to butt kissing. This was a slap after having bled Beaver blood for years. In his comments about KH leaving, Riley called him a young coach and made it seem that KH was not completedly qualified for more bucks and/or that he was being partially propped up by the senior members of staff. This attitude could easily push a staff member to go join the enemy with salary being an important but secondary issue. By the way I screwed up big time in indicating Heyward had Husky ties.
Agreed.
Heyward was a Beaver not a dog.
I’m sure we will be less than impressed with the hire. Probably an ex player so we can continue our inbreeding.
If I were MR I would target somebody that had played and or coached for Nick Saban even if he is only a GA currently. His D’s play at a whole different level and it would be great to bring in fresh ideas. A pipe dream of course.
Got this in my email last night but the post appears to have been deleted:
“New post on angrybeavs.com
I Hate The Beavers
by angry
Everything about them is dipshittery and loserdom.
I’m getting tired of wasting energy on these assholes.
angry | January 12, 2012 at 7:48 pm | Categories: Athletics | URL: http://wp.me/p10tZE-21E
Comment See all comments”
Drunken venting?
I’m pretty sure dipshittery and loserdom are drunken venting words. But I also think it would take hours to locate the proper keys in the correct order to spell those words. I’m guessing drunken venting+voice command typing+angry opened his blog instead of his online diary.
“Dear Diary…..the assholes are wasting my time and energy with their dipshittery and loserdom…..why can’t they pull their heads out of their assholes and see the world the way I see it? Sincerely yours…..Angry”
“Dipshittery” has just been chosen my word for the weekend. If I can only have the patience to wait until the perfect time to drop it on one of my friends instead of a premature utterance.
Friend: “Hi Jason, how ya been?”
Me: “Just fine dipshittery… errr I mean… oh hell….dammit!”
(Think Chris Farley interviewing Paul McCartney)
I wonder if it can be used as a noun…?
If “Democracy” is a noun, I’m pretty sure “Dipshittery” would be as well.
No, I haven’t had a drink in over a year, and it’s been wonderful.
I’m just frustrated. AD are a bunch of losers. I just didn’t think the obvious frustration was worth a dedicated topic. I mean, what discussion could we have to that other than “yep”?
So, after an hour, that post went to the binary incinerator.
“So, after an hour, that post went to the binary dipshittery.”
Fixed. :)
http://www.facebook.com/dipshittery?sk=info
Ha!
angry’s FB page?
See… I like it as a place noun, not just an idea.
I can tell you it would have replaced “galley” in the Navy very well… and maybe “head” as well.
I was thinking something along the lines of a distillery. A place where quality ideas and talent are shit dipped. The Valley Football Center has been a dipshittery in recent years. Oregon State has become the state’s leading dipshitter.
I doubt this young ever thought for 5 sec. about the tax implications of moving to Seattle. In fact, I am willing to bet that he would have taken a small pay cut to get up there. These assistants are all working towards someday becoming a D1 head coach and he must belive that UW will give him a better opportunity. Perhaps I am a pessimist but, I see the Beavers as a program in real trouble of being lousy/mediocre for a while if changes are not made. Riley and Banker seem to be simply going through the motions right now and do not demonstrate any enthusiasim at all. UW on the other hand is coming off a Bowl appearance 2 years after an 0-12 season. Their coach is young and ambitious, their facilities are getting a major overhaul, they have a hyped young D-Coordinator. Sadly, I think that for this young man, moving to Seattle is a no-brainer.
Agree
Angry — the initial blog makes no sense.
You say he left for money alone. Then you proceed to show he took in effect, a pay cut. So you disproved your initial contention.
The only conclusion possible is that Heyward left for some OTHER reason, or … he is a moron.
It makes perfect sense.
He left for money (or, the respect attached to it, either way you view that). He probably views his salary only in nominal terms, and thus thinks he got a raise. I don’t think that makes him a moron; it makes him average at finance.