ACL tear. It's official.
The good news: OSU received word that he does qualify for a medical hardship and will be back next season. I'm not much for the sentimental stuff, but it will be nice to see James and Quizz end their careers together.
Until then, there's a season to finish. How do you guys see it affecting the Beavers?
My opinion:
1. The depth chart takes the biggest hit. Can’t afford to lose another receive now or Catchings moves to full duty, and that is frightening. Wheaton has come into his own and should play at the level of Rodgers.
2. Having two vertical WRs puts a ton of pressures on a secondary and opens up everything from the run to the TE over the middle. That's a luxury the Beavs lost moments after they found it.
Overall it's a wash since Wheaton is playing as well as James. The loss is in what could have been had both been on the field together.
As of yesterday, Wheaton is indispensable.
link?
No link.
It’s a solid source I met on facebook. If you think that sounds silly, I understand and agree, so just wait until morning and you’ll hear it from a source you trust.
no worries, was just wondering. That is the 2nd time I have heard it tonight from a “source” but Riley’s quotes online this evening stated they won’t know anything until tomorrow.
I am not sure you needed a source for this one though (no offense to your ground work). The writing was on the wall during the game, the footage was downright terrible. I won’t be surprised if they come back tomorrow and add MCL and medial meniscus to the ACL tear. Also, the treatment protocol on the sideline was further evidence.
I’m not sure how it works, but even if he ‘could’ come back after missing several more games…they almost seem to prefer to just hold him out until next year anyway. He’s missed too much this year, so you get him hopefully a full year next year, and you got him a few games this year. Enough to bring the other guys along, and see how more questionable plays against our Beavs can occur without reprimand. Sorry, I’m a Beaver Bitch.
Probably wont know about the meniscus until you get in there. I just hope he gets hooked up with a top notch surgeon from his uncle. The Corvallis Clinic has some solid surgeons but they use older techniques that are more invasive than the guys that are on the cutting edge.
The team has its own private docs, they aren’t just gunna send him over to the Corvallis Clinic. The team employs private talented doctors who will take a good look at him. You are right about the meniscus but I am sure they had a pretty dang good idea that they were checking for an ACL on the sideline. They definitely did physical tests of his ACL on the sideline, I am sure they knew it was bad before the MRI was even done.
word… sounds good. You can sometimes tell if the ACL is torn by how much play the knee has, although depending on how fast it swelled up that can be preventing movement too. When I tore my ACL it was so swollen that the general practitioner tugged on it and said it was solid and probably just a sprain. After 2 weeks of limping around I spent about an hour trying to convince an orthopedic specialist to see me with a GP reference.
As long as Wheaton is healthy, they’ll be fine. Katz was focusing just on James yesterday, and the offensive diversity is paying off.
From an ability, I think there’s more in the cupboard than Cathcings, but I realize a younger player is not likely to get a shot, Riley is too conservative.
James is a hardworker and will rehab like a mad man, but I am wondering how much this affects his speed next year? On the plus side, with his brother needing to redshirt and return, I think we can expect Quizz back too (especially when he seems to be having a down year thus far). That means a mature offense with a seasoned QB, both Rodgers, Wheaton, Halahuni…a better O-line(?). And importantly, more time to try and get a standout RB recruit that is needed for the future.
Meant to say “Katz WASN’T” focusing just on James…”
a point I raised Saturday as an important one for the game. I think Bishop, while not in the elite speed class, will be given the most opportunities and is most likely to step up.
I agree with all of this. The offense, barring injury or bad play calling, is going to be potent next season.
Regarding speed: the general rule of thumb is it takes 1 year to get back and 2 to get back at full speed. With his work ethic, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him back for spring.
Ya I think he will run with the team some in spring, won’t get hit at all. They held Quizz out a lot during spring/fall camp but James actually did take some hits. He won’t this time around. That said, I think he won’t miss a step next year, probably will be rusty the first game only.
Assuming the O-line is up to par to support the quality skill guys next year, that’s always my worry.
So what are the chances the NCAA will grant a medical? Will James want to come back? Opinions…
James wasn’t a high draft pick anyway, so rehabbing into spring would kill his draft stock completely. So yes, if he’s done for the year, by far his smartest play would be to come back for one last year, play with little bro, tear up the Pac10, set all kinds of records, and help us get to the Rose Bowl.
Wheaton is a stud, so I’m not concerned with a drop in production, as long as Droppings doesn’t see much PT. Nichols has been solid so far, and Bishop has some pretty insane hands. The fly sweep will be a little less potent, since James was a tough runner (ask Oregon), but the rest of our offense should be basically identical.
Anyone think that James could be denied the hardship? I know he is eligible but isn’t the whole point of it to make sure you get enough film for the NFL? Isn’t 3 years enough film? I want him back, don’t get me wrong, just would hate to see it rejected.
I believe he is eligible…and I can’t imagine he’d pass up another year with his Bro. They’re tight like that!
Maybe a stupid question here…but what’s the problem with Catchings? He’s looked alright this year, not outstanding, but passable.
Also anyone want to comment on general LB play yesterday? I saw Pankey miss some big ones, but any notes beyond that? Who played, who did well, who didn’t?
I DVRed the game. I still hate Pankey. He was blocked a lot on plays where he was unable to get to the tackle or even force the ball carrier to make a move. I don’t know what I hate more the fact that he can’t get off blocks, his terrible open-field tackling or his lack of lateral quickness. Several times Foles hit people (most Antolin and Criner) in the flats with Pankey running behind them flailing like a child. Pankey simply cannot cover the flats. Also, anyone notice that when he was on the short-side of the field he got juked out of his shoes by people in the flats. I am sorry but this kid is a downright terrible football player, he is a damn liability. He has 3 years of solid experience and he still cannot make plays.
As far as other linebackers, they had similar problems but not nearly as exaggerated as Pankey. The biggest thing was safeties and linebackers getting stuck on blocks. The two big Antolin TD’s were a result of poor tackling and inability to see the field while engaged with a blocker. The other liability is Robinson, he doesn’t play much now but omg he is Pankey part 2.
If you’re going to play a struggling LB, I’d play the younger guys. More upside. As they learn the ropes they may improve, because they are better skilled.
For anyone interested in the rule, here is the NCAA manual:
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/D111.pdf
Wrong “affecting” there Angry.
Hopefully James comes back; I really don’t see why he wouldn’t.
Nice effect vs. affect catch Quatre!
I’m a stickler for the they’re/there/their and “alot” epidemic running rampant on internet blogs, but the effect vs. affect rule is a little harder to see.
I love the I-can-take-criticism-and-corrections-without-getting-my-feelings-hurt attitude present on this site!
PS
I’ll try to make a comment about football next time.
The way the leg bowed in a varus position, I suspect a lateral collateral ligament injury; less common in football than the MCL tear. You heard it here first…..
That is an astute observation. I can’t remember, was their a direct impact from the player on the medial part of his knee? I do remember it being a nasty tangled mess.
As best as I could see, there was no force applied to the medial side of the knee other than that from James planting the left leg and the AZ player hanging on his shoulders. The knee bowed outward (varus) awkwardly but there was likely torsional force as well applied through the knee, bringing in the possibility of several different derangements internally. I guess we will have to wait and see if the paper or any other source gives us the full scoop..
So….. Torn ACL migh very well be the case and it is what as been rumored online since Sunday afternoon.
However…since the MRI results aren’t due until today. Nothing is ‘official’
While nothing is official until the official diagnostician studies the pictures, the techs on the MRI can give a preliminary take on what they see.
Single or multiple torn ligaments don’t really matter. It’s going to take eight to nine months for full recovery.
There will be no NFL draft or any real participation in spring drills.
Catchings looks better this year than he has in a while, but he did one thing that is unforgivable to Riley. He fumbled. You’ve seen how long it takes McCants to get back into the game after one. Give Catchings a good six or seven games before he’s back.
Maybe we could find a way to get Pankey and Robinson to fumble? Though standing still while not very fast people run away from you should qualify as a defensive fumble, apparently nobody on our staff sees the years of film showing the same tendencies as actual mistakes.
Obviously the loss of James Rodgers is a serious blow for the rest of this season — both to the OSU offense and to the OSU return teams. The Beavs will not be as good this year — that’s just the way it is.
However, the Beavs STILL may be good enough this year to get to the Civil War with only one PAC-10 loss. That would most likely mean another epic Civil War for the Roses.
And now for the good news. Next year’s OSU offense and return teams may be the best in the nation! That assumes: (1) James comes back healthy next summer/Fall; (2) the other key players also come back healthy; (3) Ryan Katz continues to improve; (4) Markus Wheaton and the other young receivers continue to improve. All of those assumptions appear to be reasonable (that is, not guaranteed, but likely).
OSU will still have weaknesses on the defensive side (especially at defensive tackle, where we lose Paea and Olander). But the young linebackers should step up and be better than the current LB crew.
James Rodgers has had awful luck this year. But, taking a longer term view, this may actually work out well for James and for the Beavers (and their fans).
For James, this represents a chance to come back for a triumphant final year with Quizz where the Rodgers brothers set all kinds of offensive records.
For the Beavers, this represents a chance to become a Top Five team next year (assuming an easier OOC schedule than this year), and perhaps even better!
Call me an optimist, but I’m already getting excited about what’s to come.
Go Beavers!!
Does anyone know if James stats from this year stay in the record books, or if he loses this years stats if he accepts a medical redshirt? I think the stats remain, but I can’t find it anywhere.
Sammies are still on ESPN from his hardship year… of course I don’t think those are official.
Think we can get luck to replace #35 on our D? Stanford QB tackles better than most of our starting D.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5STc2_bM7k&feature=youtu.be
The team stats clearly would remain in the books, so I think the individual stats would also need to stay in the books. Otherwise, you would have team stats that cannot be traced back to any particular player (which would not make much sense).
Here’s a randomly chosen example of a Nebraska player (Phillip Dillard) who took a medical redshirt after being injured in the early part of the 2006 season. As you can see from the linked page below, Dillard’s individual stats for 2006 are included in his career totals: http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=157523
That’s what I was thinking (re: team stats). That’s interesting, though…it could give a player a chance to break school records via an extra 3 games.
KEVAN WALKER
KEVIN CUMMINGS
Are these guys gonna play now?
@angry: Yes, and I think that’s part of what will make next season extra special for James. Assuming he comes back healthy, James will have a chance to set receiving and return records that will be hard for others to break or match (given that James will have the extra 3 games included in his totals….)
But the bigggest thing for James, I expect, will be the chance to play another season with Jacquizz and the rest of James’ friends on the OSU team.
I remain excited about this season, but now I’m already getting excited about next season, too. James Rodgers and Markus Wheaton as the wideouts. Haluhuni at H-Back. Ryan Katz as QB. An O-line that has played together for years. Will there be any college football defense capable of containing next year’s Beaver offense? I doubt it!
He may have an extra 3 games but keep in mind that other players can still start more games than Rodgers in his career. He only started half the games from his frosh year and missed the 4th quarter of the civil war and bowl game of 2008.
An O-line that has played together for years…?? We’re losing probably our best linemen (again) in Linnenkohl, and Johnson is gone too. I’ll grant that having both tackles back is nice, but that’s still 60%. And 60% from a line that’s hasn’t been all that amazing this year anyway (notably run blocking).
*lineman, sorry. Not saying Johnson is the best we have.
I thought Johnson was a junior this year. Do you mean we have 60% coming back? As it stands now I think only Linnenkohl graduates, which is a big loss, but I could be wrong. Josh Andrews will probably start next year at center.
What are the odds that there will actually be an NFL draft next spring with the pending lock-out/strike coming up? Seems like a bad year to be coming out anyway.
The wort part is that as soon as Riley realizes the power of playing both Wheaton and Rodgers together Rodgers goes down. Now if we could get him to take Pankey out… lol.
Angry,
how reliable is your source on the medical hardship waiver?
My source is the NCAA rule book, which I posted above, combined with media reports that OSU directly contacted the NCAA and received a thumbs up. The one question was the percentage of games since 4 games = 33%, and the rule says 3 games or 30% max, but it seems that won’t be an issue since two halves of a game = 1 game. Therefore, Rodgers has participated in 3 games from a % standpoint. At least that’s my understanding, and since the Beavers received a thumbs up, I assume this is correct.
Hope your right… I just have a feeling that the powers that be don’t want to see the Beavers win the first Pac-12.
I’ve never had a problem with an NCAA ruling, be it eligibility or sanctions. Until they do something blatant, I can’t get on that conspiracy bandwagon.