29.Feb.2012 Student Loan Bubble & Its Relation to College Football

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With the record setting TV contracts being negotiated, one would think college football is a healthy sport. That there's no threat to seemingly solvent universities. But the casual observer does not understand a key mechanism driving the sport's growth: student loans. Take a look at this graph:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This data is from the New York Federal Reserve. For those who don't know, the Federal Reserve is actually a private institution (bank) with affiliate branches all around the country (hence Federal Reserve System). The NY Fed, and all Feds, err on the side of caution, mainly because politicians dislike bad economic news. So take the graph above with a grain of salt; the situation is likely much much worse.

So what does the graph tell us?

Well, ask yourself this: when did college football become HUGE? I know it has always been popular, but I mean dedicated networks, record TV contracts, etc huge? Around 2007, right? That's when the Big 10 Network launched. In 2008, the SEC signed a record TV contract. A lot of "casual fans" popped up around this time period, too. Why? Well, look at the graph–more student loans. More student loans = more students (previously unaffiliated with a college) enrolled and affiliated with a University. It just makes logical sense that the sport's popularity would skyrocket if more kids are going to college. Right?

Well, since around that same time period (2005-present), I have felt the sport has been in decline. I wrote about this topic in the past. My feeling back then was that there had been a rise in attendance and audience, but the quality of the product was declining. I thought this was because only 10% or so of the Universities have a chance to win the National Title, so entire fanbases were becoming disillusioned. There is definitely merit to that, and I still believe that's part of the problem. But it is clear to me now that the problem goes much deeper. This student loan bubble is a threat to college football. Let's think about this:

  • College tuition is currently too expensive, only made affordable by government subsidy (loan, grant, or scholarship) or private loans. Ironically, guaranteed government loans are the driving force in Universities raising tuition.
  • Thus, most students would not attend college (or tuition/enrollment would drop significantly) without assistance.
  • Now imagine the student loan bubble bursts.
  • Enrollment plummets, tuition decreases, professor salaries decrease.
  • Government (i.e. the U.S. Treasury via the Federal Reserve) steps in to backstop the bleeding via printing currency.
  • Inflationary forces soak up discretionary spending (i.e. savings accounts, wages, etc).
  • Economy goes into a deeper depression.

When this bubble bursts, there will be fewer students enrolled at Oregon State, and their parents will be poorer. Oregon State will have to lower tuition to attract students. Top professors will follow the money elsewhere. College football will decline, because (a) less discretionary spending (b) less interest due to decreased enrollment, and (c) fewer networks looking to broadcast the sport (the 22mil Pac-12 deal will look like fraud), and (d) a depression–aka people spending on necessities rather than cable TV.

For the optimists, take solace in knowing a slight majority of this debt is in "for profit" college loans. I believe I read the breakdown was something like 60%/40%, and the for-profits have a 50% higher default rate. Still, not good. Coupled with the current economic climate, I believe the student loan bubble could crash the sport over the next five years (due to enrollment cycles, it will take ~3-4 years after the bubble bursts to see the impact at that level). Personally, I think it needs a reboot.

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  • BeavInEugene says:
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    Do you think the 80,000+ fans that pack stadiums in the south have degress from that school? I doubt more then a 1/3 do. I don’t see student debt bursting the college football bubble.

    • angry says:
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      I don’t see student debt bursting the college football bubble.

      I do.
      See, even if only 1/3 of them have degrees from the university, they won’t have any money after the government (via the Fed) backstops this bubble and tickets cost 3k per person. Think bigger picture and the snowball effect. I tried to outline this in the bullets. Wrote:


      Government (i.e. the Federal Reserve) steps in to backstop the bleeding via printing currency.
      Inflationary forces soak up discretionary spending (i.e. savings accounts, wages, etc).

      So, while you may be right about your 1/3 comment, you’re not completing the thought process and understanding how bubbles are absorbed and the consequences of that. In this country we have privatized gains and socialized losses, so you and I, along with the SEC fans, will be paying for current student tuitions via inflation (hidden tax). Hence no money for games or cable TV.

  • BeavInEugene says:
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    Ok, this maybe a very simplistic way of looking at it, but this is how I see it.

    College is way to expensive for most and I think sooner rather then later people will realize that if they can’t afford college they won’t go. As their degrees won’t earn them the income to pay of their debt and live a good lifestyle.

    Does this mean college athletics will loose fans that would have otherwise become fans, if they attended? Sure. However, I feel college sports has grown to a level of that of professional sports. People pick their teams, regardless of whether or not they attended a school or are even from that area.

    So, I do agree that student debt will cause colleges to rethink and possible lower tuition as student population decreases. However, IMO college sports has grown to a level that while less students attending schools will have some affect. I just don’t honestly see it bringing down college athletics.

    • rsteve503 says:
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      I was waiting for someone with more courage. The hugeness of the tv football contracts seems to me to take college football out of the normal economic consideration. Its become a business unto itself. You dont actually need a college behind each team.

      • angry says:
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        The current economy can’t absorb another bubble without an exorbitant cost.

        Wages decreasing
        Inflation increasing a 9%

        Yet, you think society can add another trillion (to socialize the loses) without any consequences to average fans, many of whom are broke students? And you think this is true just because the sport is large? Wasn’t GM large? And Lehman Brothers? And Merril Lynch? And…GREECE? Lol. Large things fail all the time.

        I mean, maybe you are right and tickets will go to 3k and corporations will buy all the tickets. That’s possible, but it isn’t healthy. There would be a huge drop off in collage aged fans, and that will change the experience.

        Also disagree that you don’t need a University behind the teams. By that logic, let’s just become Michigan fans–aren’t they #1 all-time in wins? Yeah, see, the University behind the team does matter.

        Sometimes I think people disagree for the sake of it. It’s hard to imagine a 1trillion NCAA bubble will burst but NCAA athletics will be just fine. I mean, the options are to let the bubble burst, which will result in huge individual loses or to inflate out of it, which will lead to huge individual loses. The outcome is the same; it’s just a question of pain/speed. Who picks up the slack and attends games/buys cable when the targeted demographics are poor?

  • matt b says:
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    Angyy, I think that you are on to something and think there is some correlation. But I am not sure that your cause and effect are quite there. I have a son at OSU and we pay out of state tuition. He has no scollarships, grants or other gimmicks ( I say gimmicks in a good way) and no loans. We only qualify for loans and we have decided to just suck it up and sacrifice to get him thru with zero debt at graduation ( he is required to copntribute thru part time work), as we did with son number one. Not sure if this is a good plan but it’s what we decided to do. My point is not about me or my kid but more so about how we as a society are so willing to take on massive debt without really weighing the risks and rewards. I think that the issue as it relates to colleges sports is less the loans and more the debt loading of individuals and colleges. More debt begats fewer teams. Fewer teams begats less competition. On the one hand, some folks think that the sport is healthier with larger venues, higher stakes, more media coverage and more merchandise marketed. Not saying that stuff isn’t important. But it is also possible that the cost to be a fan or a player becomes so great, that debt loads to finance season tickets or simply to sacrifice your time for 7/24/365 training could make it too costly for participants and/or fans. The game has evolved to where we are now bringing in specialists from Australia, Samoa, Sweden (SFCC has several), the Netherlands (Boise State has several). Will the College game, because of economics, evolve to where we use all immigrants, or all specialists or all guys that are only tied to a college because they play a sport? And will the bubble burst because the debt loading becomes so high that a college, after one bad year ,has to scrap a program or programs? I just hope that the rapid growth of income does not begat massive debt loading that ultimately kills the golden goose.

  • Concerned Father having to pay says:
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    Student debt has increased because of the incredibly steep rise in the cost to get a college degree. Period. In the future most kids will goto community colleges and online to make it affordable. With less kids in school, I don’t think tuition will go down but continue to go up because the schools expenses will not go down at the same rate as income. State and federal governments are broke and Obama care will only make it worse. K-12 will get education dollars and private colleges will become more prevalent just like charter, alternative and private elementary and high schools are becoming.

    With the advances in communication and technology university may become vinyl records and college athletics could be a business/job with a degree as a part of their compensation. Think forward, not todays expensive and stale education.

    Yes many degreed programs such as engineering, medicines, sciences and other need a university but what about business (my degree from OSU) and education that make up a huge chunk of OSU. These can be done with Webinars, group study, internships and other methods.

    College Football and Basketball will survive, the big question is the other sports.

  • angry says:
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    Student debt has increased because of the incredibly steep rise in the cost to get a college degree.

    Yes, but why do colleges raise tuition? Because they know the government will raise the loan amount and backstop it. The loans are the problem. It’s why people in the 50s could pay their way through college with part-time and summer jobs.

    I don’t think tuition will go down but continue to go up because the schools expenses will not go down at the same rate as income

    Tuition would have no option but to go down if the government no longer backstops loans. The market would then determine price, and it would go much much lower to meet demand (i.e. students who right now wouldn’t go to college if they couldn’t get loans, actually won’t go to college–this will force universities to lower tuition to get enrollment).

    College Football and Basketball will survive, the big question is the other sports.

    They will both survive, but in what form? I am thinking the only possible form is 3k tickets and corporate douche bags in the stands, which is not good for OSU.

    By the way, looking at OSU’s online rates, it’s the same per credit as in person, so I’m not sure online/technology is a solution. It’s a solution for room and board costs.

  • Max says:
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    Good thing university reserves are at an [url=http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/02/record_enrollments_give_oregon.html] all-time high. [/url]

    Public universities are now corporations funded by taxpayer taxes and taxpayer wages, as tuition continues to skyrocket. I agree something needs to change, which most likely means a drop in college enrollment.

    I’d like to see how the recent increase in college enrollment has affected the value of a college degree (ie how much graduates are making now as opposed to ten/twenty years ago). Eventually the current university model will fail because it doesn’t make sense. Going 40k in debt to get a BA in dance is about as logical as a McDonalds cook signing a 30 year mortgage.

    Basically what I am saying is: if you want to dance then dance but don’t go to college. Go Beavs!

  • Concerned Father having to pay says:
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    “Corporate douche bags in the stands” ???

    Are you an Occupy “insert city” loser. Who do you think pays all the advertising, TV, large donations and funds the Pac 12 now? Is Reser bad for OSU? Without those douche bags there is no Truax, Valley Center, Sports Performance Center, Reser stadium, Goss Field, Gill improvements.

    How many $3,000 tickets do you really think non revenue are going to sell, maybe 10.

    • angry says:
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      I was thinking along the lines of the Super Bowl, how it’s more about the ads, ticket price, and fanfare than the game. This because the “fans” are corporate bigshots out on business. They’ve driven the real fan out of the game. Doubt NCAA football would ever get to that level, but with an inflated ticket price, that’s the only type who could go. Thus bad for OSU.

      Are you an Occupy “insert city” loser.

      I’m nothing. I like elements of several political systems but believe in balance. Regarding OWS “losers”…doubt all or any are losers. They’re ignorant on a lot of issues, but so are most people. They look like frustrated kids who want opportunity that’s being taken from them because of bad government policy (first and foremost) and secondly because of the paper trade (i.e. Wall St). Henry Ford had a great quote that sums up my feelings on the latter: We are not against borrowing money and we are not against bankers. We are against trying to make borrowed money take the place of work. We are against the kind of banker who regards a business as a melon to be cut…The time for a business man to borrow money, if ever, is when he does not need it.”

      - Henry Ford, My Life and Work (Chapter 11: Money and Goods)

  • Kenny Beaver says:
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    College football is too big to fail.
    Other sports may suffer but not the most attended college sport in this nation.
    Today, many people pay more than face value for a ticket, like construction fees, or other donations and many are not corporations.
    Society has given college sports more value than they deserve but that is not going to change.

  • BeavGirl says:
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    These college loans remind me A LOT of sub-prime mortgages. the government or bank gives a person 100,000 loan to go to college / buy a house they couldn’t otherwise afford, person is excited because they get what they want (the house / college), then they are slammed with the debt and they realize they won’t be able to pay it back. The reason why college and house prices rose dramatically was because the government/banks increased the supply of loans for these items and a bunch of people (who probably shouldn’t have gotten them) hopped on board. The bottom line is that the government or banks should not give people things they can’t afford. great post angry!

    • sparkyd73 says:
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      I couldn’t agree more BeavGirl. But the government was a major player in both of these problems. Before the sub-prime blowup the government passed legislation that required banks (or incentivised) to make loans to disadvantaged people even though they were bad risks. Then the banks took that mandate and ran with it and the rest is history. Student loans are exactly the same except the Government essentially is the bank with the student loan programs.

      • angry says:
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        Government essentially is the bank with the student loan programs
        They were in the housing bubble via Freddy Mac/Fanny Mae, too.
        Right now there’s a huge subprime lending spree in autos…I guess that’s not a huge deal since a dealer can repossess a car and resell it for any difference in the loan, but still, just shows how desperate this country is for growth and how we never learn…from one subprime scam to another, all to claim growth at the expense of our future and real production. Very convoluted.

        • sparkyd73 says:
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          The government stuck their nose into the auto market also.

          • steveEbeaver says:
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            And it would appear that the government has told GM to keep making cars no matter how many remain unsold and not lay people off or else. Dealer inventories keep climbing.

            http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/02/GM%20Channel%20Stuffing%20Feb.jpg

            Sorry… the GM bailout and the Chevy Volt are a pet peeve of mine.

            • BeavGirl says:
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              It makes absolutely no sense for the government to bail out car companies. If car companies are failing they need to adapt to the market or GTFO–not be rescued by the government. As peter schiff would say it’s “survival of the unfittest” out there.

              • steveEbeaver says:
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                Agreed. And to say that 1 million jobs would have been lost is complete BS. The good parts of GM would have been bought out of bankruptcy and those jobs would’ve been saved. Also all the parts guys would still be working or hired by the aftermarket producers. The biggest albatrous of all though is the Volt. To give the buyers a $10,000 tax credit when the average buyer’s annual income is $170,000…

              • Jack says:
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                Correct.

                It makes no sense for the government to bail out car companies. That’s why they bailed out GM and not Ford. Ford is a car company. GM is a finance company who happens to make cars.

                It’s just one more failure in the “we used to do this, but now we speculate with our employees’ pensions while also extending credit beyond our own means” experiment. Hell, most state governments did the same thing.

                What I wouldn’t give to have a government who doesn’t speculate. Why can’t we be fiscally conservative… like North Dakota… like Canada… like Sweden?

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    Thanks Mr. Bernanke. JB

    PS: When will Angry be back?

  • SalemBeav says:
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    Tuition in Oregon has increased 85% in 5 years. The University system raises tuition and the community colleges follow suit. The CC tuition in Salem is near what OSU was 5 years ago. And if you opt for online classes it is the same about $100 per credit hour. (I remember going to Saddleback CC in MIssion Viejo, CA with the outrage that we had to start paying a $5 health fee plus books). A lot of the increase in Oregon has come from reduced funding by the State. Which has increased their budget 450% in 23 years. How many jobs have increased 450% in that time? And they still cry they are broke. I think there is also an escalation in tuition because of all the scholarships, as they increase tuition the cost of scholarships goes up. Someone has to pay. I saw that $1200 per year of tuition goes to athletics. Which is why students get “free” tickets. Basically every student they lose is a season ticket holder. So there could be some negative effect from the “bubble”. Tuition is $9000 this year, probably a lot more next year, plus room and board. I applaud matt b. for paying the out of state for his son, but I think he left out the Dr. in front of his name. College Football is basically a professional sport with a crappy draft, TV contracts will keep them floating for awhile. What will become of the 90% of schools not named USC or Oklahoma, or the schools without a P Knight or T.Boone Pickens. I think the bubble will have a cause and effect, but in the long run the glass ceiling will do in college sports.

  • waggle says:
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    I have to go with what Angry is saying but then again everything is going to become more expensive. With QE1 and 2 and now the beginnings of QE3 the dollar becomes weaker. I wish 9% is where inflation will top out but I fear it will be pushing 20% in the next 12-18 months and that is going to hit everything and everybody. Oil is traded in Dollars which is the main reason the price of gas is so damn high- the dollar continues to fall and gold and oil will continue to rise and the price of a college education will also. The government controls the student loans and just how damn solvent is it? We are broke and continue to spend like there is no problem- Angry is right- the bubble is going to burst but it is going to involve much more than student loans. We have nothing but a large amount of idiots running this country and looking to them to solve it is becoming a moot point.

  • sparkyd73 says:
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    Angry, this is a very interesting topic. I have a feeling my post will be very long. The dirty little secret is going to be exposed over time like you say. Academia has long been trying to sell the dream that you can’t have your little piece of the American Dream without a college degree. Very similar to the idea that you couldn’t achieve the American Dream without home ownership.

    People on here are right that College Football is big business, but it is big business for the TV and apparel companies. Not so much for the actual University, for the University it is their marketing arm. We’ve been hearing for years how the majority of Universities lose money on their athletic departments. Why would a business do that year over year? It is actually quite ironic that Academia finds themselves in a postition that they need athletics to get students, they need students to be able to get research money, thus they need athletics.

    I don’t want to make this into a political debate, but I think everyone can agree that Academia in general is Liberal and therefore much of what you get out of school comes with a bit of a liberal slant. It is interesting to note that many of the Cabinet for President Clinton and President Obama came from Academia and many have gone back into Academia after they left office. I point this out because these government subsidies are directly tied to the same people that are raising tuition. Academia is a major part of today’s Democratic party. And as Angry points out the raise in tuition is driven by the knowledge that the government will back it and continue to propogate the belief that you can’t function in society without a college degree.

    How many of us can truthfully say that their job could not be done without the degree that we received? Since, OSU is an “engineering school”, there may be a higher % on here than if this were a Liberal Arts school blog. My administrative assistant has her Masters in English and is very happy to have her job. But unless the general population wakes up to the economics behind Big College this will continue. While I know that the Occupy movement would never protest Big College, they should have just as much animosity towards Big College as they have towards Big Corporations. Until, like Angry points out, it bursts.

    If this bubble bursts though, it will not be the end of NCAA Football. With the TV contracts now making the power conference schools self funded, now you have “free” marketing for these schools. Angry points out that butts in the seats dropping would lessen enthusiasm for the schools and I agree that this could have an impact, but it would be very gradual not immediate. If the bubble burst and it is so detrimental that it brings football down, I think it is one of the last things that most of us will be worried about because we will be more worried about how we are going to feed our families.

    • angry says:
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      Thoughtful comment, Sparky.
      A few things I don’t 100% agree with but no need to nitpick.

      • sparkyd73 says:
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        Thanks. I knew I was straying into some philosophical areas that could be controversial, but I tried to keep away from that as much as possible because I think the main point is valid whatever your political philosophy (unless you are an academic elite of course).

      • angry says:
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        Some academic elites are awesome (e.g. Noam Chomsky) and contribute to society, and some are horrible (e.g. Ben Bernanke) and destroy it.

        • waggle says:
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          No fan of Chomsky- but his best quote IMHO is this- “If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don’t like. Goebbels was in favor of freedom of speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you’re in favor of freedom of speech, that means you’re in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise”. We could use a little more of this thinking these days.

          And as a sports fan you may get the idea that Chomsky thinks of you as no better than sheep- “Another thing you sometimes find in non-literate cultures is development of the most extraordinary linguistic systems: often there’s tremendous sophistication about language, and people play all sorts of games with language. So there are puberty rites where people who go through the same initiation period develop their own language that’s usually some modification of the actual language, but with quite complex mental operations differentiating it — then that’s theirs for the rest of their lives, and not other people’s. And what all these things look like is that people just want to use their intelligence somehow, and if you don’t have a lot of technology and so on, you do other things. Well, in our society, we have things that you might use your intelligence on, like politics, but people really can’t get involved in them in a very serious way — so what they do is they put their minds into other things, such as sports. You’re trained to be obedient; you don’t have an interesting job; there’s no work around for you that’s creative; in the cultural environment you’re a passive observer of usually pretty tawdry stuff; political and social life are out of your range, they’re in the hands of the rich folks. So what’s left? Well, one thing that’s left is sports — so you put a lot of the intelligence and the thought and the self-confidence into that. And I suppose that’s also one of the basic functions it serves in the society in general: it occupies the population, and keeps them from trying to get involved with things that really matter”. Lovely

  • ean says:
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    College sports are just becoming depressing. At least in the MLB, NBA or NFL you can manage a team well and create a winner. In the NCAA it just seems like a race to burn through the most cash… mostly men’s basketball and football.

    • angry says:
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      I agree. I think HS football will become the new college football for fans seeking true amateurs and a simpler time. If there were a way to invest in it…

  • tim318 says:
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    I see a lot of problems with tuition increases and student loans. The cost of education is exceeding the value that it gives in return (with no guarantees, by the way). Thus, there is a bubble that will burst in this area at some point. Interesting that OSU is pushing for more enrollment. I think they are targeting 30K by like 2025 or something.

    I don’t relate this problem to a perceived decline in college FB or athletics. Networks and advertisers are too invested to let it fail. You’ll see the Phil Knights and Nikes of the world step in and put their marketing fingerprints on the product. Other sports will be sacrificed for cost-savings long before FB. More athletes will opt for FB as the king of sports (though baseball has a higher reward, lower risk).

    Now, what do people think about OSU women’s b-ball getting into the NCAA tourney? What do they need to do? Two wins this weekend, plus a semifinal or better finish at the Pac 12 tourney? At worst they are guaranteed a WNIT bid.

  • Bob says:
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    I really enjoyed this post, and all the comments. Very interesting reading. The only comment I would add is in response to SparkyD73 regarding the need for a degree to do my job. I retired from law enforcement in CA after 4 years in the Marine Corps and 22 years as a Chico P.D. officer. My Political Science degree from OSU got me an extra 10% pay over those officers without, (plus another 5% for being a vet) However, a B.A. was a requirement for promotion. So… you don’t need a degree to be a cop, but to go beyond a radio car and a beat you do. I suspect it is that way in many professions.

    Again, very good reading this morning.

    • angry says:
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      So… you don’t need a degree to be a cop, but to go beyond a radio car and a beat you do.
      I understand your point, but an apprenticeship program could teach you the same thing. Probably more, as you’d get hands on training. So yes, the way our society is set up, you need the “prestige” of a college degree because employers want proof you’re smarter than unskilled labor. This is just poor judgment and laziness on their part, as there are millions of dimwits in college and many ditch diggers (et al) with 120+ IQs. I’ve worked with many brilliant guys who had no formal training or education.

    • sparkyd73 says:
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      You and I are on the same side of the argument Bob. I totally agree that there is a major benefit and in many jobs a requirement that you have a degree. That is how the system works and is self sustaining. My point is, did you having a Political Science degree really make you a better police officer? Was what you learned at OSU really needed for the promotion or was it used as a screening?

      I am not arguing that a college degree is a bad thing and I think there is certainly a need for post high-school education. I just think that many of our jobs don’t really need further education other than what you get on the job. But to get those jobs it is a pre-requisite that you do have a degree. In my opinion, that has really cheapened everyone’s degrees and created a stigma for those that choose not to go to college. And then everyone is surprised that most of our manufacturing jobs are shipped overseas. Not everyone can be management, but that is not the dream that is sold.

      • Bob says:
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        Part of what makes a degree valuable to an employer, especially when it comes to promotions, is that a degree proves the person has the ability to complete something as difficult as four years of college. University life also provides a person with the opportunity to meet and experience people from completely different walks of life, places and cultures, people who think differently than you. It’s more than reading and writing, you’re supposed to leave college with a more well rounding outlook on life, something you just cannot get if you stay home, work at the mill, and take a few classes at the local J.C. When you throw being a veteran into the mix, well, that’s just not something that any apprenticeship program can get you.

  • WFO says:
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    Another view:

    I went in the Marine Corps in 1992. I put $100 into my GI bill every month for the first year. The govt matched each $100 with $1000 for a total of $13,200.

    I got laid off in 2000 and realized that I needed to use or lose my GI bill. I went out to the local community college and took a 2 year technical program. My GI bill paid for about 95% of it and I got a Pell Grant to help out too.

    Fast forward to now. I’m now a part time instructor at the same college in the same program I took 10+ years ago. I get students coming through on GI bill and they’re talking about getting huge amounts of $$ to pay for their college and sometimes it’s still not enough. We’re talking $40-50k to go to community college for a few years.

    Now I’m not sure if the GI bill has increased exponentially because tuition has increased so much, or if the colleges see so many vets coming with govt $$ that they figured they could gouge a bit. It would be interesting to track the timelines of GI bill vs. tuition to see. I’d like to think that the govt increased the GI bill to keep pace with higher tuition. But it would be disturbing to find out that the govt increased the GI bill as incentive for recruiting and then colleges increased tuition accordingly to take advantage.

    Either way,it’s another brick in the wall so to speak. It’s a shit-ton of tax payer $$ dumping into colleges directly from the govt.

    • Bob says:
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      Semper Fi

    • angry says:
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      Now I’m not sure if the GI bill has increased exponentially because tuition has increased so much, or if the colleges see so many vets coming with govt $$ that they figured they could gouge a bit.

      Here is the BLS inflation calculator. http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

      So in 1992 you spent 13k? And today that program costs 40-50k?

      Inflation adjusted, 13k in 1992=20k, today. So there is your answer. Colleges are gouging 150% increase. Why? Because the government will increase loans to meet rising tuition. This is good for GDP, so they don’t balk.

      • WFO says:
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        That was in 2001-2002 that I went to college.

        • WFO says:
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          BTW all I know about community college tuition is what I hear from the students. I don’t know exactly how much it is per credit but I know the #s I hear thrown around are astounding.

          All the talk of academics in politics makes me think the increase in GI bill and tuition is not a coincidence.

      • steveEbeaver says:
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        It’s mind boggling how high the cost of a college education are these days. I saw some figures some months back comparing the cost of things in 1970 dollars and a college education had a higher percentage increase than health care.

  • Jack says:
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    Wow!

    You guys are all over the map on this one.

    I had to move my response to the forum:
    http://angrybeavs.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=313

    • sparkyd73 says:
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      If angry and others on this thread are all over the map, I think you might be on an entirely different map. Interesting read, but not really addressing this discussion.

    • angry says:
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      I addressed this.
      Not sure why you didn’t post it here, though. No such thing as too long a comment. And not everyone reads the forums.

      • Jack says:
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        I felt it would be a book here. Putting it on the forum allows people to voluntarily read it.

        • Beaver Nation says:
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          Can you put all of your comments on the forum Jack. I don’t read it and it would save me 100 responses per thread.

          Thanks

          Beaver Nation

  • BeavMonkey says:
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    I saw that $1200 per year of tuition goes to athletics

    —————————————————————————————————-

    Wow, if this is true, OSU should shut down their athletic department.

  • BeavGirl says:
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    you probably didn’t need anymore proof that college is too expensive but http://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-02-medical-students-prostitution-years.html

  • ObjCritic says:
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    OT – OSU Players talk about off-season work and spring goals.

    http://cliffkirkpatrick.mvourtown.com/2012/03/02/football-on-the-track-again/

    What’s telling about this video, and the one with Sean Mannion, is the vague goal of ‘just get better,” which is a complete by-product of the Riley philosophy and a phrase he uses consistently. These pieces are obviously scripted a bit to standardize them, and the players do talk about what individual things they want to improve upon (“route running, I get lazy running my routes.”).

    But I think there is a shortcoming on the part of Riley and staff with their “get better” mantra. Sure, it works in any situation and is convenient, but Riley’s teams aren’t goal or detail oriented enough.

    • Concerned Father having to pay says:
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      Your logic is 100% correct, however many teams keep their goals with in the team. Just because they don’t share their goals doesn’t mean they don’t have them and are working towards them.

  • osbeavs says:
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    A little bit of a counter argument as to why college football will persist for quite a while:

    While I agree that college loans are a bubble that will burst, consider the massive amount of money poring into college athletics via television. Television has a vested interest in making sure that sports are successful now more than ever. People are watching TV at a lesser rate, especially the 18-34 demographic that is the holy grail for marketing execs. The young demographic has a number of media forms that compete for their attention.

    Additionally, DVR also is exacerbating the issue because it provides the opportunity to skip commercials. Sports are one of the few forms of entertainment that really hold value when they are witnessed live (some DVR sports but most won’t). In this situation, marketing execs see sports as the greatest venue to advertise their product and are willing to pay the most to advertise during this coveted time.

    While Angry does make a great point that people will slowly stop watching sports, won’t TV execs cling to sports as they overpay for the product? Marketing and TV will continue to hope that collegiate sports turn around and in doing so will keep the athletic departments afloat that much longer.

    I honestly think that TV could collapse as a whole before college football completely collapses on its own. Honestly, how many other forms of media are out there besides TV? Now for full disclosure, I am a part of the young demographic and I do watch TV. But, I consume TV via netflix/internet for the most part. The only time I actually watch cable is for sporting events. If cable starts to lose traction and the cost of cable continues to rise (thus less people purchase cable/satellite) , won’t that kill sports all on its own? Doesn’t this spell doom for more than college sports?

    • Jack says:
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      Your second to last sentence is the one you should concentrate on.

      What happened to boxing once it went to the pay-per-view format? Make things more exclusive or harder to attain, people won’t bother with it. Out of sight, out of mind.

      • osbeavs says:
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        Exactly my thoughts (regarding boxing and soon to be all sports). I don’t necessarily think that college tuition will kill college sports, I think sports will all die with the whimper of cable.

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