Home Athletics The Honest Truth about Dishonesty

The Honest Truth about Dishonesty

329

Somewhat off topic, but I came across this book today and decided to begin reading it. Reason being, I’m curious how the Duck’s and their fans rationalize cheating.

I’ll get back to you in a few days and let you know if it’s any good.

If anyone’s read this book, how does it apply to cheaters/the Ducks/NCAA football as a whole?

Feel free to go off topic.

329 COMMENTS

  1. I like how it says “How We Lie to Everyone – Especially Ourselves”. I find that it relates perfectly to this blog and its author.

  2. Gina is up with a practice report and a piece on O-Line. Now the center dejour is Yanni Demogerontas.
    I plugged AB with a comment about Uncle Leo.

  3. Angry, that wasn’t a brown recluse spider was it? Medium brown body with medium thick legs. Seen them before and they are quite poisonous. Check out google images of recluse bites.

      • Spider was actually from me, not angry. I was under the impression it was a wolf spider. Pretty sure not a brown recluse. It wad waiting outside the bathtub as my wife got out of the shower the other night. Motherfucker ran super fast, and was huge. I didnt kill it. Just took it outside and far away from the house. Maybe i should have killed, but i usually try to let things go unless they’re actually attempting to harm me.

          • Since having kids, I’ve developed a new respect for life and the environment. I’m not a hippie by any means, but I’ve changed my life habits around the use of herbicides, pesticides, etc.
            What goes around, comes around. I don’t use any sprays or any unnatural fertilizers anymore. Used to be the guy who would spray weeds with roundup, weed and feed the yard, and spray the perimeter of the house with all sorts of insect killers. No more. That stuff is poisoning more than just the intended target and I’m under the belief that we’re all going to pay for it at some point, so hopefully my small changes can help delay that.

            Also trying not to kill insects or pests that aren’t directly harming me or my family.

            Don’t worry, I still eat meat and haven’t converted to a vegan-ism. Still nothing better than a filet mignon off my grill.

          • Usually if you see a spider in your house it’s doing more good than harm…probably eating carpet beetles, carpenter ants, termites, etc. That’s basically what they do when inside. They rarely bite people.

          • Jumping spiders are the good type……the only good type. I leave them be. Big hairy nasty bastard get killed on site. Over the years a have had some really nasty bites from hobo/wolf spiders. Two of those bites stayed red and semi swollen for more than a year.

          • Nicebeaver, I invite you to Google ” necrotic hobo spider bites” . Have a look and imagine one of those nasty fuckers biting one of your youngsters.

            Hobo spiders are as a whole pretty useless as spiders go. Fast and skittish and can’t see for Shit. They basically hide in a hole and wait for something to run past then jump out and bite it. Nothing compared to a garden spider with their expansive webs.

          • They can take out mice. But I guess if you’re leaning on them for that you’re in “I don’t know why she swallowed a fly” territory.

            They’re the only spiders I freak out about. Everyone else cries about the little quarter-inch-minus wolfs until I escort them outside. So when a 2 inch hobo is spotted, everyone gets to stand still until the good fly swatter can be found and used.

            I had one on a wall that started to run when I moved, once. I had a half full coffee cup in my hand… one of my favorite cups. Next thing I knew, I had a broken cup, a broken wall and a dead spider on my hands… well… three legs were off moving on their own for a while.

          • Yeah Bro, I live in SE Portland and if you know what to look for Hobo’s are everywhere. I catch and release most spiders but ALL Hobo’s get terminated with extreme prejudice!

            Best friend got bit on the leg and for 2 weeks it looked like a gun shot wound that wouldn’t close up. You could literally stick 2 fingers inside his leg. So gross and he had some horrible fevers and other symptoms.

            The little fuckers go hunting at night if nothing crawls into their funnel holes for a couple days.

            Not risking child, pet or wife getting bit. DIE HOBO SCUM

          • I live in SE pdx also. Maybe this guy was a hobo? My photo is a little out of focus, so hard to get a good look at his markings.

            You know you just told us you fingered your buddy. Not judging…

          • Hobos getting a bad rap here. The latest is that they do more good than harm, from the PNW Insect Control Handbook: “Hobo spider, Tegenaria agrestis, common in the PNW, was thought to be dangerously venomous. However, recent research indicates that the bites from this spider are no more dangerous than bites from most other spiders: The U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) has removed it from its list of venomous spiders.”

          • Hobos aren’t getting a bad rap. Many have seen the havoc they can create. I don’t care if they’re venomous or not. I give them the distance I would a Kimodo dragon… I imagine. They may not be able to drop me in a one-on-one assault for whatever reason. And they aren’t venomous. But if they can get a bite in a sneak attack, the organisms in its mouth will eventually do it. Then they can just find me and proceed with the digestion of me.

      • Had a hobo spider bite last year… just missed some fresh ink I had paid good money for.

        That bite made an ugly mess on my leg for awhile but didn’t go necrotic.

        Avoid hobos.

    • Brown recluse is not native in this region. That doesn’t mean you won’t see any with all the commerce that occurs. But hobos are the ones to watch for. And they can get big and fast. And, of course widows are common. But they aren’t that aggressive or fast.

      • I wasn’t going to bring that up because someone always argues with me, but you are correct, Brown recluse spiders are not indigenous to Oregon. Most “Brown Recluse” bites are actually Hobo spider bites. Nasty aggressive bastards.

  4. I remember the Ducks being hit with a wrist slap or two with the shady recruiting services. Nothing major like having entire seasons vacated and paying players like the Ralph Miller Beaver basketball teams though.

    • Severity of punishment and scale of violation are often two different things. Ever heard of “the best justice money can buy”? Ever imagined that Uncle Phil and Nike’s advertising money might influence things? Ever?

      • Just a slight exaggeration by the Duckie, but if I remember correctly Lonne Shelton (star player in the mid 70’s) actually signed a contract with an ABA team before his college season was complete and the Beavs had to vacate after the fact, but that was hardly Ralph’s fault.

      • Do some research. Players were given cars, cash, rent and bills paid, had to vacate 4 seasons and pay $350,000 to NCAA. That’s SMU level “cheating”. So, how do Beaver fans justify naming their basketball arena after a proven and convicted cheater?

        • What did Slats Gill do?

          Was he involved in Nikegon’s blatant football pay for play of professional athletes… then snitching on the schools in their conference for revenge, thus breaking up the conference? That would be an ass-hole thing to do. It was an ass-hole thing to do.

          Full circle, I guess.

          Amazing… Nikegon would be in the Big Sky if not for OSU refusing to return to the Pac without them, despite how others rightly felt about Nikegon.

          • Oh dear. The whitewashing is several layers deep on this one.

            You have to start with Jim Aiken and Norm Van Brocklin and academic fraud and improper subsidies (as pay was called then).

            There’s a lot of fiche that needs to be transposed for all this info to be readily available. It may be now.

            It’s funny to think that the last obstacle to the webfoots acceptance into the reincarnation of the Pac was one of our alums having to build a stadium for them because their facilities were so bad.

            I always get a chuckle from the Duckleheads who posit OSU should leave the Pac for these very reasons. They were destined to be nothing were it not for a boy from Jefferson HS becoming the darling of the nation.

          • Don’t you just love it when your rivals fans bring up shit that happened over 30 years ago to justify what their school did recently and got away with?

          • In the case of the 1980-82 sanctions, some players sold complimentary NCAA tournament tickets and violated NCAA rules. I don’t think the players names were ever made public.

    • Riddle me this. How does a guy like LaMichael Jackson go from not even being able to pass a Texas state math equivalency exam so he moves in with a “relative” in a different state as so not to have to take said exam, become an academic all american his first term at UO? And don’t bullshit a bullshitter either

  5. So far this book isn’t very good. The studies are such small samples, and they seem rigged, or at least interpreted, in the outcome he desires.

    But, I’d still like to know how Duck fans justify cheating to themselves.

    • I think alums bury their head in the sand and rationalize “it’s all just blown out of proportion. Every school does what we did. We didn’t cheat, just looked for advantages in grey areas because we’re smart. This is probably the SEC trying to get the NCAA to take us down because their scared of us. I love my ducks.”

      Non school attendees or the “bandwagoneers” plain don’t care. Again it’s “whatever we did (which should be legal anyways) isn’t as bad as what the SEC does on a daily basis.” They just want to be part of the winning click, and feel because the Ducks have a good football team, they themselves become more awesome. It’s normal fan shit for the most part. Something to brag about when there probably isn’t much else to celebrate in mundane daily life.

      • What dwill said is exactly what I’ve observed with my friends and parents who are duck fans. Grey area, minor infractions, everybody does but we were just unlucky enough to get caught, look at Auburn or Ohio State, etc…..
        They’re right to a certain extent, too. Beavers dont run a 100% squeaky clean program either. Maybe not as dirty as Oregon. Remember, we paid for some of the same “street agents” as Oregon.

        • Recruiting services are different than street agents. Recruiting services are stand-alone businesses who are not personally involved in PSAs’ lives or anything involving travel coordinations for schools. They are not “mentors” to anyone. As they are allowed in both the spirit and letter of the rules, they are investigative services among the best of them. The only grey areas are those created when tOSU gets a slap on the wrist… then Western Kentucky gets slammed for the same thing involving much less money.

          Still waiting to hear what will happen to UNC. I think for the depth and breadth of that institutional failure, they will get a fine of $10k, a loss of 12 scholarships over 4 years… from any team of their choosing, and a ban on any championships in football or hoops for four years combined… time served.

          • true, they were technically recruiting services, but they were recruiting services who employed street agents. and our payments were much smaller than Oregon’s. So i guess that’s our justification?

            I’m sure the NCAA loved having Syracuse and UNC play each other in the final 4. Don’t have to look much further to find evidence that cheating is worth it to the teams that do it. Neither team should have been eligible for post season play, in my opinion.

            These backdated penalties where they take away wins from teams that committed violations in the past aren’t much of a deterrent. Syracuse won the NCAA championship in 2003. People will remember them as champions. Nobody will think of them as the team that had their championship and a boatload of wins taken away.

            UNC shouldn’t even be allowed to participate in NCAA athletic events after their institutional failures, but you just know they’re going to end up only having to vacate wins and lose a handful of scholarships, and through appeals, it won’t happen for years.

            Message received. Cheating is totally worth it.

          • Sitton himself has talked about how a caravan of coaches and boosters from various schools would follow him around. There were going to be penalties wherever he went. I guess that’s the “everyone does it” part of it all.

            The insidious part of recruiting now is not dealt in money anymore. There are some amazingly stupid pay-outs here and there (that are rarely reported because journalists, for some reason, are loathe to travel and hoof it for a story anymore). But resources like info and influence are the commerce of hoops recruiting. You either have a great ball coach or a program that is influenced by big money. The latter can often purchase the former, so that might be redundant.

            I don’t think anyone would say Duke did it wrong. But the same could have been said of UNC when Smith was still there. Or the Louisville program under Crum versus now?

            Anywhere Larry Brown goes, there will be penalties. If you didn’t know that in the late 80’s I can’t help you. Boeheim was a surprise, but less so since something worse was discovered years ago.

            There was and always will be some low level shenanigans going on. Most of it is unintentional because what is intuitive isn’t always right. And saying no to your financial support, while right, is a foolish thing to do. But when something is blatant and not self-reported in a timely manner, money, not a human, is ruling the program.

            So you get a Calipari type who can manage egos. His magnificent coaching is way overstated. He had enough talent on his team this last year to win it all if his system was worth a damn. His pitch is duplicitous. On the one hand, the kids he recruits are going to be stars or make some real money over a short period. So having connections like WWW can’t hurt.

            Is it wrong to peddle future influence?

            I think it is when without the promise of an education as well. Stanford and Duke, for all the bots they produce, do it right. They tell you if you work you win. The thing is, that should be true everywhere. Stanford and Duke get by on perception, not innovation. And when that perception is backed by a local concentration of slack wealth (granted, built on innovation… but not their own), there is influence to be dealt.

            I’m all for giving SA’s guaranteed four years of scholarship. But I would take it a step further. I would count every SA who enrolled against the ship limit for a solid four years, regardless of transfer, injury or what have you. If you run a program that hedges the current rules, you would be immediately exposed.

      • that sounds about right, but this book is hypothesizing that to feel good about cheating they have to do more than just rationalizing and actually distance themselves, too.

    • If you feel like you’re part of a family and that family is getting attacked, the natural instinct is to protect the family no matter how irrational it may be. Current politics is a great example. Everyone is trying to portray themselves as a victim. Then the associated political party pretty much comes to their aid. Black lives matter on the left and Christians on the right. If you abounded them, they turn on you.

      I think it’s similar to sports. Top programs complain they get attacked because they are doing too good. Trying to portray themselves as victims so their fan based will rally to them.

      • Both BLM and Christianity are outreach in nature.

        BLM has organized itself well enough and moved quickly into the mainstream. And they are already reaching across the aisle in the name of equality, with many receptive ears to that message.

        And that’s because Christianity’s philosophy sans the magic show is pretty much in line with liberal values. When is that more clear than when you have a Jewish man walking around the country preaching love one another, peace and equality… and driving the buyers and sellers out of the temple… and turning over the money-changers’ tables?

      • For a very current event, look at the reactions for changing the $20 bill to Harriet Tubman from Andrew Jackson. Who’s defending each person and why are they.

        • Tubman is cool and all, but now I associate her with political correctness rather than what she actually did, because this is a clear identity politics/pc move.

          • It’s completely cynical. But I’m tired of the PC crap.

            It either is or isn’t a good idea. Just because Jackson is a soft target does not mean it would be a good thing to replace him, let alone argue for someone else.

            But everyone has to bite on that hook.

          • No.

            I am chomping on you all thinking that I’m chomping on some hook. I’m defending myself, not someone else’s ambiguous and irrational idea.

            I didn’t even know the $20 was going to be changed when this convo broke out yesterday. I found out this morning this was a real thing. That’s how much I care about it.

            I’m sorry my currents don’t run as deep as your support for Andrew Jackson, a guy who made whole cultures move to relocation camps… if he could catch them… or if they survived that trek. Now that I know what this discussion is about, I don’t even care who replaces him. Jackson is a blight on our history. The only positive I can come up with for him is that he was mentioned in a song where the British kept a comin’.

          • I hardly give a crap about either person in question. I care more about the circumstances that lead to one potentially getting replaced. But keep chomping away and making assumptions :)

          • What assumptions? The history of Andrew Jackson is pretty well written. His empiricism led him to commit ethnic cleansing on a grand scale. He installed cronies at every level of government. He did the same to the banking system. And they all failed miserably, in policy and execution, at anything other than carpetbagging and land “purchases.”

            I suppose if I was a numismatist, I would be excited about any change. But there isn’t much exciting about paper currency any more.

            So I have zero issue with the removal of Jackson. And I would have few reservations about doing the same to Grant.

            So when I see Tubman chosen for the replacement, my only question would be, “Why not Frederick Douglass?”

          • Assumptions like this: “I’m sorry my currents don’t run as deep as your support for Andrew Jackson”

            Keep on chompin’ :)

          • I now assume you don’t understand sarcasm thick enough to pour on pancakes.

            Don’t turn into some cynical pile of butt-hurt on me. I like you the way you are.

  6. The key I think is someone’s – be they athlete, coach, administrator, fan – ability to lie to themselves. Once they do that, they can lie to anyone (rationalize their dishonesty).

    Read the other day about bicycle racers starting to cheat with battery powered motors in their hubs. A woman was caught using one in a cyclo cross race and has since quit the sport. How does someone KNOW that their motor is helping them and think they’re going to feel like a “winner” if they win?

  7. Our government is full of corruption from top to bottom.

    Why would/should it be any different in sports?

    All is fair in love and war….. All is fair in athletics and war perhaps?

  8. So it’s been awhile since the Ideation Team was formed. Curious if anybody knows of any of their work? What have they done so far that is better than Bob DeCarolis’ idea for Endless Popcorn? When can we expect to start seeing the fruits of their labor?

    • Does this mean Wallace and Thompson are redshirting?

      That would be a bit disappointing TBH. Was hoping to see them in action this season.

      • I’m sure players that aren’t on campus yet aren’t going to make the post-spring depth chart. Gotta earn it.

        Doesn’t say anything one way or the other. I’d be really surprised if both redshirted.

        NiceBeav – I read that as essentially a two-deep. Positions that have more players listed either intend to use more than 2 (RB) and/or consistent of one or more ORs. I’m pretty sure there are defensive players on the roster that didn’t make that list. Also doesn’t include incoming players that aren’t on campus yet- or Seth.

        • I actually forgot neither of them was on campus yet. Hope they make the final roster though. Heavens know we could use the talent.

  9. Football GPA has climbed the last couple quarters …I think its a numbers game with transfers, retirements, and players quitting.

  10. Little comfort, but other PAC12 teams have pitching woes as well.
    D1 reports, “Daulton Jefferies is dealing with a strained subcapsular muscle in his throwing arm. He has resumed playing light catch, and he is expected to return at some point this season, but there is no specific timetable for his return.”

      • There’s been much debate on this site about injuries to pitchers because we’ve had a lot of Tommy John surgeries the last couple years: is it due to our coaches overworking arms in pointless situations (keeping pitchers in when throttling a shitty team), kids who don’t have proper training throwing junk too early, etc… I believe OOB is showing we aren’t the only ones with problems.

      • The phrase, “pearls before swine” comes to mind. But, I’ll toss a few anyway:

        Seems to me a serious fan and objective reader of this site would be aware of the discussions mentioned by dwill, the pitching situation of the Beavs, and of the stature of Daulton Jefferies. OTOH, one who comes here only to attempt to stir the pot would not.

        And, D1 is a site devoted to NCAA Baseball. Jefferies is the top arm for the Cal Bears, they’re in the PAC12.
        You’re welcome, no thanks necessary.

  11. If what the dastardly dux are doing, i.e., having a huge sugar daddy, is “cheating,” why are we jealous that Reser wasn’t as rich as Uncle Phil?

    • Cheating would be paying street agents large sums of money to steer kids to your university and burying the costs in the schools general fund hoping they don’t get noticed.

      Cheating would be AD staff doing long term auto rentals in their name and then giving them to football players to drive.

      Other program things that would be major violations: Players keeping and then giving game worn memorabilia to local drug dealers in exchange for pot, who then sell the items on ebay. Burying gang rape allegations until after important games are played, etc…

      None of those have to do with having a Sugar Daddy.

    • Having a huge sugar daddy isn’t cheating. The Willie Lyles etc. stuff was some of the cheating and got chipper a show cause and the duckies a scholly reduction or two, as I recall

    • I would look at his D coaching to correlate his teams’ D success with history. His best D ever was run by someone who ran one of our best Ds ever.

      Perhaps he learned from that?

    • Apparently has had the flu in the last couple weeks. That with complications from epilepsy could do it suddenly. There’s also an outbreak of Elizabethkingia that would have done it.

      I guess we wait for the autopsy.

        • I don’t know, man, if someone played “Little Red Corvette” right now I’d get agita. I find prince weird…not bad…just weird. His music makes me uncomfortable, much like Bowie’s. I could never listen to a Prince album straight through. I like all Prince’s influences, so it’s not that I don’t like the style. It’s the flamboyance with all the dissonance in the wrong places (to my mind at least) that gives me the agita.

          But it’s sad what’s going on on social media for sure. Everyone was suddenly a closet Prince fan making it about themselves. One great thing about social media is it lets you see who is awful and who’s actually an amazing person. The people making posts that help others, make people laugh, etc and aren’t about self are the people I find the most awesome. Some of my “friends” have disgusting personalities, I’ve learned through social media.

          • No, but I’ve also been checking out this book. Check out the ~30 minute mark onward.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWPipz3-PJI

            It’s interesting and makes one wonder about how GA is going about practices. In general, he’s going about it very well, but it’s not time so much as focus. I’ve realized this with my guitar practice. 10 minutes of intense/focused practice > 2 hours of meandering.

          • I thought GAs goal with the 3 hour practices was to develop their sustained attention, focus and effort level for game days. I hope it pays off. Been a long time since the team put together an entire game of well played football on offense, defense and special teams.

          • Just re-reading this…

            I think you’re concentrating on the pop stuff. And I understand people not liking dubstep. There’s nothing perfect in life, so someone doing so with original licks and electronica with such ease is unsettling. If it’s good stuff, I choose to get lost in it instead of agitated. I wonder why someone does this or that… or I’m surprised with some fun twists.

            He has a huge catalog beyond his early efforts. He was introduced to the 60’s after those albums. And he came up with Around the World. That opened his music up to a world of sound. And he was like Bowie in that he would change his vibe on a dime without sacrificing quality.

            Critics claim Sign o’ is his crowning achievement. It is some awesome stuff. But I think his songwriting is way way undervalued. Remember most of the music played on Prince albums is Prince himself, editing and layering and doing everything himself. He was essentially the greatest combo mc/dj there ever was.

            But he was also very good live and in collaborations. So I have to believe his formula was real.

            I think you’d like Plectrum Electrum. It’s a live-recorded album with him on guitar. I think you would enjoy how short and to the point that album is, whether it be silly or deep.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1wsn4ug0tc&list=PLHAHk20iyMr-4Q9IVh_h8ihucxOW3BAUz

            But one thing that will come from others’ love of his music will be many many covers and tributes. If chosen well, many of them will give you pause and make you wonder, “Prince wrote that!?”

  12. Big series comin’ up for Casey and the guys. Utah school stream linked on the main OSU site.
    Today at 5pm, and schedule change – DOUBLEHEADER Friday starts at 1pm.

    Surely worth a new thread. GO BEAVS!, get those bunts down! (especially with 1 down and man on second)!

  13. Based on the news release, it seems like it’s academics. It said he’s no longer enrolled.

    The only way it’s something else is if he did something real dumb. But I’ve heard of no off the court issues. Newspapers would have something if it was a legal issue.

    If academics were the reason, you’ll likely see him transfer to a JC. If it’s something else, then he’ll go to another 4 year.

    First round of midterms was pretty recent so the timing is about right. Though it makes me question how he was doing during basketball season. Not sure how you determine who’s eligible during the season.

  14. Pretty sad to hear about Bruce transferring, but like others here, I agree it seems to be about academics. If it is, I hope he manages to find the balance he needs to excel on and off the court.

  15. I’ve always said that D Bruce was in the way of his own self. His game would always be there, he’s a high level player. But it looks like it’s the off the court issues that did him in. Sad to see that I ended up being right, because you can look back at me saying I thought he would transfer. I was hoping I’d be wrong.

  16. Eckert gives up a 2 RBI dinger with nobody out in the b5, Nate makes a visit.
    Ice continues to carry the team, 5-2 good guys.

    Surely deserves a thread of it’s own. (echo, heh heh)

  17. Morrison a stand up 2 RBI triple and it is 8-2 good guys t7. Utes have to go to third pitcher, Beavs scoring with two out last two innings!
    Eckert at 76 pitches through 6 full.

    No sac bunts………so far.

  18. Damn! Grenier, after getting his second hit of the night, goes from 1 to 3 on a hot groundball single to left by Donahue! Didn’t even need to slide!

  19. Dang I can’t believe Bruce in gone! They make it sound pretty solid, anyone hearing he might return? He looked capable of picking up where Payton2 left off. I was imaging him with another offseason being a starter or 6th man — playing a TON of minutes next year! Hoping other guys are ready to step up now and Tinkle gets well soon! I hate hearing about guys over about 6’6″ and foot/lower leg issues. Praying it’s just a one time deal.

    This coaching staff should be able to still field a solid team next year no matter what!

    Go Beavs!

  20. So there’s another one of those Harlem Shake type of internet fads going around called the runningmanchallenge. Been going on for awhile actually, but now sports teams are starting to get into it.
    Really want to see OSU skip this one. They’re always so late to the table with these types of things. Just don’t. Plus, it’s stupid anyway.

    That being said, I full predict OSU to release a video in the next day or 2.

    https://twitter.com/Mr2016_/status/723324145019162628

  21. Heimlich 83 pitches through 7 full, Beavs up 1-0.
    Donahue and Harrison hitless so far, but KJ has two excellent defensive plays.
    EDIT: KJ follows the comment with a double to put runners at 2 and 3 with one out for Anderson

  22. Not sure if the Beav pitching (or whats left of it) has enough to finish off the Utes. Utes currently sitting in first place in the PAC — wow, conference really struggling this year.

    Next game…..Go Beavs

  23. Gretler, yes Michael Gretler with his first HR gives the Beavs the lead at 6-5 in the t4.
    Both Thompson and Britton couldn’t find the zone, how long will Fehmel last?

    • All in a days work for that kid, another in a long line of fine catchers at OSU !!
      And recently he is simply carrying the team offensively.

      • I disagree that he’s doing it offensively. He’s money in game ones. He’s effective in game twos. But he disappears in game threes. And he rightfully rests during the week, when we score in bunches.

        Stat lines of 3-4, 1-4 and 0-4 with 3, 2 and 0 RBI makes for a .333 weekend with 5 RBI. That looks good overall. But it’s not coming from a place of consistency, at least not like his D.

        • So, who’d you say is more consistent at the plate right now? Particularly from an RBI standpoint.

          You do make a valid point about fatigue though. I believe his ratio of BB:K goes south in the third game. I think he is often left in for his calming effect on pitchers as well as his D.

          It is, in some ways, similar to leaving pitchers in too long; a sign of weak backups while, at the same time, inhibiting their development.

          • It’s a little unfair to claim RBI as an important differential when you compare everyone else to the 4 hole. Ice is the only player to get choice ABs with a lot of production in front of him. If he batted for a lesser average his RBI production would likely not suffer.

            Anderson has been as consistent from mostly the 5. Madrigal has been more than consistent at the 2. And I think Morrison has been pretty steady despite also getting shuffled up and down the line-up.

            My point isn’t so much that Ice is deficient as it is that he and Madrigal stand out as the only batters who always get cherry ABs. And only one of those is consistently good to sometimes great. I think Ice would be better in the 8 hole for at least the third game of the weekend. He’s proven his production for the first two games.

            I wonder if that’s because those games are easier to call with the two good arms we got.

            Regardless, there is little consistency in our line-ups. But correlations are beginning to appear.

          • Good stuff, Jack, I appreciate your thoughts.

            No doubt about your points re: RBI:batting order.
            Yeah, some guys have had flashes (Anderson, Morrison, Donahue, even KJ although he has been surprisingly quite (surprising to me anyway)).

            Your point about the first two games being easier to call impressed me at first. On further review though, since Jake has been the #2 most of the season, I’m not entirely sold. But the focus needed behind the plate may very well be a factor in the mental energy left for time at bat. An interesting factor I’d not considered.

          • Good point on Jake. In conference play we’ve scored 12, 0, 5, 5 and gone 2-2 with him at #2. I like the line-up where we scored 0. I just think Mason was really on that day. And I should have remembered this because that game was where I started thinking Ice should move back in the line-up because he was doing a lot of work in the middle innings.

            So in those games Ice is 2-13 with 0 RBI and 3 R. His game 2 with Heimlich was much more productive with the bat. I think we’ve found one correlation.

          • And then there is the question of the impact of time spent by Ice on the basepaths. Another factor I don’t have time to research.

          • And that’s why I think he should fill the 8. At that position, he can do anything you ask of him. He’ll get less ABs over the weekend. Casey obviously trusts his bat. He can pick up stragglers with two outs. He can sacrifice or h&r or walk. And he has enough pop to drive to the alleys.

            The less he has to change out of and into his gear, the better it is for his D work and his consistency at the plate over the whole weekend.

            Platoon Hamilton and Grenier at the 3B/DH and 4/9 positions, and let’s get this car in gear.

  24. that was a hard game to watch the pen could not hold the bats can’t come up with a hit with the bases full twice at least they took two out of three.

    • Yes, hard to watch the lost opportunity. What, 14 LOB, 8 BB’s given as well as 3 errors by the Utes? At that, Max was helped by some fine defense, otherwise it would have been worse.

      The race stays close as Cal, Stanford, and the schmucks all lost and leghumpers lost a non-con as well.

      • You can’t win every night in baseball, but wasn’t in essence a game for first place in the league? They didn’t really respond to the challenge.

  25. When do we start recruiting football players? Least favorite part of Andersen is his mouth. Stop talking get a few players and coach them to win and stop making excuses.

    • The loss of Bruce is a big setback. He was really playing well at the end. Hopefully Tinks can channel his inner Altmann and pull a ready to play grad transfer out of his booty.

      • I’m not sure Tinkle Jr will ever heal properly, either. Some big blows. Barring a big time transfer, it looks like the team will take a step backward next year.

        • Tres had his foot stepped on in a practice, is there something I missed? Or is it concern that feet are weird things and he’s a big dude?

          • Could be a combo of the fact that he is reported to have surgery scheduled in the next couple weeks and memories of Isaac Seumalo’s issues. That, and his history of repeatedly injuring that foot/toe.

        • >I’m not sure Tinkle Jr will ever heal properly, either.

          It’s possible.

          But this is the same surgery CJ McCollum, Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings, Aaron Gordon and many others have had. None of those guys has had a serious recurrence.

          This is not the same injury that cost Yao Ming and Bill Walton much of their careers.

  26. Gina just posted a new article regarding GA’s philosophy on the culture change at OSU. He was inspired by the book based on New Zealand’s rugby team “All Blacks” and is starting to implement some of their phrases/lingo into the team. And having position groups create team names for themselves. Also been noticing some of the helmet stickers as part of the tactics he’s using.

    This was a quote on the state of the team last year:

    “Andersen looks back at the days leading up to the Civil War — when the Beavers traveled to Autzen Stadium with fewer than 60 players, even though they were allowed to bring the full roster — as when the program hit “rock bottom” in 2015. ?He frankly characterized the group as selfish and delusional in their daily habits and expectations. But he also looked in the mirror.”

    Great read.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2016/04/gary_andersens_culture_change.html

  27. We’ve reached the turn in Pac-12 play. 2 games is all that separates 1st from 10th. Really the only team that has very little chance at this point is Wazzu. Seeing Utah and UW tied for 1st is really just fucking bizarre. Every team the Beavs play from here on out is currently below them in the standings. Which really means nothing with this jekyll and hyde team (yes, injuries, I know).

    With that said, the goal of winning the conference for the 3rd time in 4 years is still right there for the taking. Beavs have tie breakers over Utah and UW. Cal is the only team they would lose a head to head tie breaker to

    http://www.d1baseball.com/conferences/pac12.htm

  28. No mention of Thompson lasting 1/3 an inning giving up 5 runs?
    Called this the first series of the season, yet Pat Casey keeps rolling him out there.

  29. The honest truth about………whoreton’s offense (per Aaron Fitt, D1):
    Oregon’s anemic offense can make any pitching staff look good…

    Guess we’ll see, Wednesday’s game is on PAC12 at 7.
    The Stanford series begins Friday and is streamed by the school. Surely deserves a thread of it’s own.

    • I think a lot of people would go to Church on Sundays… if they looked at the numbers. He has typically come on to replace Jake in conference play. For the most part, he’s done well in limited time. We just get to wonder what his arm looks like in extended play.

  30. Contemplating a Terrace membership for $1190. Going to be a dope hangout and I like locally crafted beer & wine. Throw in a guided tour of the complete redone VFC and Stansbury would sell these out pretty quick IMO. This is going to be one of the best settings in college football as far as appearance on TV of fans enjoying themselves at games. Andersen just needs to start making bowl games and then high level bowl games. First things first Is OSU beating the Quacks in this year’s Civil War. Feels like the year and needs to be for Beavers program to hit the national radar again.

      • Includes complimentary tastings. My guess is orange ticket holders get same experience but will be lucky to be able to do once a year, instead of every home game. Not sure if the free tastings our only beverages or if small food samples may also be given out by a couple vendors. My guess is the tastings won’t be too large of the wine and beer but should be nice anyway. Then for the full sized fare you will likely pay more. But if I can sample 4-6 beers and 4-5 local wines and then pick one I really want then it should be win-win and a good social experience for the 600 members and 900 orange ticket holders at each home game.

    • Is anybody else unimpressed by the look of the new VFC renderings from inside the stadium?
      Just looks like extended bleachers coming down from the same old strip mall building. I suppose the real improvements are happening to the building’s innards, but i was hoping for something a little more eye catching for the tv audience. I mean, didnt Stansbury add a fake beach to central Florida’s stadium?

      I didn’t renew my season tix this year. Until the Pac12 starts scheduling more mid day saturday games I’ll be viewing from my couch.

      • I thought it looked dated and bad from the outside. I wonder if they tried to save a few bucks, because the look was antiquated the day it was built. Inside it looks okay except for the casino carpeting.

          • If they add a supercuts and 5-guys and I’ll renew those season tix.

            The inside of that facility better be nice because if these are the drawing we’re showing recruits of our “facility upgrades” we’re(still) in trouble

          • Who designed that building? And why were they selected…price, or did the admins believe that was an aesthetic design?

            It looks as bad as Gill from the outside. At least Gill has an excuse.

  31. I read both all-inclusive and complimentary beer & wine tastings so slightly confusing on what all is included. At Blazer games for Club level all the food is included in cost. Kinda nice to get your package of red vines and have a pre game meal included as they do for a certain level at the Blazer games.

    Here is OSU’s latest on the Terrace:
    http://osubeavers.com/fls/30800/sites/terrace/index.html

    Thoughts and Interpretations?

    • Blazers did away with the free club level food. You now just get like a $10.00 food voucher.

      The free food court was awesome while it lasted.

  32. I am about to pull the trigger myself. Jeff Keisler is the guy who will respond to your email requests about membership if you click to enquire about a membership.

    Straight from the release food is included at no extra cost:

    “Terrace Memberships include every-game access to the Terrace experience, access to Oregon’s best craft beers, wines and food, a reserved chair back seat below the Terrace, inclusive food, and complimentary game-day wine and beer tastings.”

  33. Yup. Those seats would suck. Drink. Go to game. Leave game and drink. If you don’t care about actually seeing the game, fork over the cash.

  34. I agree that Valley Football Center from the field view looks cheap, and rinky dink. That roof is horrendous and really does look like a “strip mall”
    I’m hoping that the final completed version comes out looking like we belong in the PAC-12 and increases capacity as well. My thought is if you’re going to do something, do it right or don’t do it at all! Here is a list of schools who’s Endzone renovations look legit: Oklahoma, Clemson, Washington, Mississippi State, Arkansas, even Wazzu! It MUST look sharp on TV, it has to have that “wow” factor. Let’s all hope OSU gets it right!

  35. OT-

    Alright Fender guys (looking at you Whiskey and Angry) I’ve been kicking around getting a telecaster. Ive never actually owned an electric Fender guitar. Played a few of them, mostly strats. Of those that I’ve played I liked the Tele the best. I’ve owned random various superstrat guitars over the years (Ibanez, Charvel, Jackson).

    I’m a 99% Gibson Les Paul guy. I had an SG Classic with P90s years ago and I loved it for that raunchy punchy Mike Ness/Social Distortion sound. Since then I’ve messed around with pickups seeing how close I can get to that sound with my LP but then I hear Jerry Cantrell and I remember that my Les Paul should have a JB in the bridge and I should be looking elsewhere for that sound..

    That leads me to either picking up or building a telecaster. I’ve looked around on craigslist and on Warmoth’s website and I’m really leaning toward just bolting one together that fits my needs.

    So give your thoughts on body wood, bridge, pickups, whatever. I’ll run with a fatty neck with a maple fretboard.

    • I’d go with alder body, maple neck/fretboard (rosewood is great, but might be overly dark with an Alder body). Get a good, light piece of wood. Another option would be Ash body with a maple neck and Rosewood fretboard. That would be interesting, if you can find it.

      The stock telecaster bridge is fine as is. Of all the Fenders, only jazzmasters need new bridges, imo, and even that’s not necessary if you know how to do a setup or never use the whammy. The problem on those stock jazzmaster bridges is the whammy can knock the floating bridge out of tune. Didn’t happen to me, but I hear people complain about it. Tele bridge will be fine since there’s no tremolo.

      Warmoth is a bad investment, so only go that route if you plan to keep this guitar forever. They resell for like half cost, if that.

      I’d recommend a Jazzmaster over a Tele. It’s the best, most versatile guitar Fender ever made. I think you mentioned you prefer short scale, so a Jaguar would do in that case. It’s a short scale Jazzmaster, basically, with less sustain. Tele is great..it’s beefier/better than a Strat but worse than a Jazzmaster. Look into Gretsch Duo Jets if you’re interested in a Tele sound but want a Les Paul look. They’re a blend of each, imo, and a very interesting guitar. I notice a lot of hipsters gravitating to Gretsch lately, so possibly a good investment, too.

      In short, stock Teles are great and don’t need much, if that’s the guitar you decide on.

      • I had an ash Telecaster with a maple neck/fretboard that I threw a Little ’59 in to get a bit more punch, and it definitely did the trick and may be similar to what this guy is looking for and close to what you’re recommending.

        I also have a blacktop Jazzmaster, which actually became my primary even though it’s far cheaper than the Tele. I’d recommend this for the good Fender versatility but with a little more weight like a Les Paul. I did throw in the Mustang bridge, but that’s a pretty easy swap.

    • I’ll put some pics on photobucket of my shit tomorrow evening when I have more time and a write up. But for pickups I recommend going to fenders website and listening to every pickup they make and go with the one that sounds best to you. Personally I like the noiseless and Texas specials. Everyone’s different though

      • As far as pickups I’m wanting a mix of P90 and Tele sound. It needs to have balls, I’m thinking Rio Grande Dirty Harry. I want it to be a fuckin ballsy rock monster, but more open than my LP.

        I’ve never played a jazzmaster or a jaguar. What are their bodies usually made out of? What’s the deal with swamp ash? They look bigger than a strat or a Tele, is that just because of the body shape?

        • Swamp ash is good/cheap wood. A little lighter than Ash (though, there are light pieces of ash, but Fender usually keeps them for the AVRI series). Yeah, the body shape makes them bigger. Jazzmaster pickups are awesome. Round/dark and take distortion well. There’s good reason almost every 90s alt rocker uses a JM or Jaguar (the jazzmaster’s ugly cousin, but a nice guitar).

          • I remember Cobain always used jaguars and mustangs. No surprise that it’s an alt-rock staple.

            Have you played a P90 guitar? They have such a great feel and sound. They seem to be a similar idea to a JM pickup but with hotter wind and bigger magnets. But they still roll off beautifully, and clean and mild OD tones are great.

          • I can’t remember if I ever played a P90. The only Gibsons I remember playing were the 355 and Les Paul. I like both a lot, but I love making chaos with a tremolo bars and just gravitated toward Fender. We recorded in the studio and played out and there were always guitars around, but I can’t remember what I played.

            What I don’t like about Humbuckers is that, to me, they don’t sound very good when clean. Very heavy low mids without clarity. Just a mushy sound. I like switching between clean/distorted and lead/rhythm. I like LPs a lot for power chords and lead guitar, but that’s not versatile enough for me.

            JM is the most versatile guitar I’ve ever come across. It can do anything. People say that about a strat, but a strat is kind of bright and glassy sounding. They’re nice and are versatile, but only if you like brightish sounds. I think a tele has more balls than a strat, and less balls than a JM.

          • A P90 is actually a single coil. Big magnets, wound hot. A JM pickup is actually similar but the P90 is the big beefy mid range hot version.

            I don’t play trem guitars at all. I’m a rhythm guy, I play some harmony lines and some simple chuck berry/Social D type leads. I actually traded in to an Ibanez super strat recently that I built an aluminum trem block for. Can’t bend up but can dive bomb if you want to. Crank up the spring tension so they come back to zero every time. Works pretty well.

          • Yes, I’ve heard that many times that the P90 and JM pickups are very similar. Many people think the JM uses a P90, but it’s not.

            My favorite band is Dinosaur Jr, especially their early stuff, which is a lot of noise and switching from rhythm to lead on the fly. So I gravitate toward versatile guitars that can do a bit of everything.

            Really you want to base your guitars around what you do, so if you’re playing mostly punk and rhythm I don’t even see the need for a tele. The LP should be fine. If I were going to play punk on a Fender I’d go in this order:

            Jazzmaster
            Jaguar/Mustang
            Tele
            Strat

            That being said, I own a strat and play punk on it, and it sounds great if you use the right pedal (e.g. Rat or a flat EQ big muff) and amp. I really believe you can make any guitar do any style with a little work. Speaking of fuzz pedals…that Death by Audio Apocalypse looks and sounds sweet. I’m very curious to try it.

          • Yeah that’s true, and it may turn out that when I swap a Duncan JB back in to my Les Paul that I will end up playing it for everything. But there is a pretty good chance that I will end up wanting that big ballsy open sound that so far only a P90 has been able to give me. There’s nothing that can stack up to a Les Paul with a JB when it come to heavier sounds.

          • Haha that guy’s fuckin awesome, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any body have fun like that on a youtube video.

            Anyway, that guitar cops some pretty convincing P90 type tones. Of course it’s gonna depend on the amp and what style of music you’re playing but that sounded pretty good to me.

    • I can’t talk to the Fender Guitars — my brother loves them. I play bass, and love Fender Jazz and Pbass for Punk-rock and classic rock.

    • It really looks very unimpressive. The strip mall roof is just cheesy. Plus it is the wrong color.
      I was hoping they would at least add a false roof and put a ribbon board above the “terrace.”

    • The project looks like it was budget driven rather than design driven. Tacking things onto both sides of the existing building looks like…well, they tacked things on. The front façade is terrible, kind of like a mid-century car port look. The terrace itself lacks a lot of details that might have made it special and, as others pointed out, more impressive for TV. A ribbon board would have been nice idea.

      I hope the locker rooms are well-designed and effective in recruiting. If this project is going to have any strength, its likely there.

      • Also absent is any type of roof or coverage from the weather. Not sure how many people will want to pay a premium to sip their craft brews and pinot noirs in the pouring rain.
        Uncovered baseball patio/terrace makes sense, but uncovered football patio/terrace means it will be underutilized once the rainy season starts. All of the pics they shown from the renderings are perfectly sunny days, but we know those occur at only about 2 home games on average.

    • Ahhh… I ran Yoda through that scene.

      You have to take the light saber to the seats to uncover treasure and a key for the door below. But then you have to beat a bunch of guys with helmets throwing funny shaped rocks at you… and a boss wearing a visor.

  36. It’s not too late to let the athletic administration know about the lack of quality in the design of the valley football center project. Tell Jim Patterson @OSUJimPatterson or Mark Massari @BennysGotMyBack and voice your opinions! I believe people within the athletic department read this site more than you know. Maybe we could think of suggestions and help persuade the overall outcome? It looks amateurish instead of amazing, which screams mediocrity.

    • I’m fine with the shed roof. If esthetics are a concern, there are ways to mitigate or even enhance them.

      If we had the money, we would do something dumb and make more stands on top of it just to sell more tickets. A lesser structure could make a living roof which could be really spectacular. Hell, one could be made to create a larger garden deck on top, accessible to the upper decks. Concessions and facilities could be built in an enclave whose reverse could be esthetically and functionally designed as an entrance port.

      But that would all cost a lot of money that can be spent on something more important.

      Slap some solar panels across the whole of the roof and build some solar covers for the seats. Just check with a physics prof to calculate the sun’s azimuth so you don’t end up blinding someone in the upper reaches.

      • The shed roof does look horrible, and it looks horrible on TV. I like your idea of dressing it up with either solar panels or a living/green roof at the very least. Integrating an engineering educational component to the structure would be unique (from what I’m aware of) and bode well for the University’s image. But yeah, money…

        Even poor ol’ Wazzu can muster a ribbon board along the renovated grandstand of Martin Stadium–a missed opportunity with ours.

        The renders of the Terrace make it look like a drab slab of concrete. I hope the final product doesn’t look as horrible as the entrance to Gill Coliseum.

        • I grew up seeing shed roofs at athletic facilities. I don’t think I’ve ever given it a second look.

          I imagine a nice living roof with something like roses (hint) trailing down the sides would require a moment. And we’re past the point where footings are in.

          A shallower roof can be built on the existing structure. But there’s little value in doing that. The existing roof is perfect for its function. It would just be a waste to dispose of it.

          A solar structure above it would both increase its longevity and hide it from view.

        • I think we can even expand that solar field if we do the plaza right.

          Less concrete… less white and flash. On the shade side, you want warmth. You do that with wood and foliage. And you can do it on a grand scale.
          http://www.contemporist.com/2010/10/06/orange-memorial-park-by-marcy-wong-donn-logan-architects/

          You also give a nod to our heritage and our region. Throw in some living screens in the plaza with some benches.
          http://cms.esi.info/Media/productImages/88963_1432310599031_PF.jpg

          Plant ornamental trees which can be shaped to give shade and compliment the structure. Put a water feature somewhere if you have a need for one…

          … and go all future tech on top.

    • Btw, I view skeptically a rendering where trees are not mature. When I see young growth on a cover sheet, I tend to think someone does not have a long-term vision for a project.

      I think someone needs to re-think tree selection and placement in relation to flatwork and structure.

  37. Isn’t the current roof the same as the old roof?

    Does anyone know if that’s actually the plan or if they just haven’t gotten to that part of the project yet?

    The VtV web site renderings don’t show the ugly roof– are there new renderings somewhere?

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