19.Dec.2011 Fans Should Admit When They’re Wrong

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Over the past two years of writing this blog, I haven't been wrong too often. I'm not saying that to be arrogant or act like a know-it-all jerk. Honestly, anyone can do what I do. It's simply observation followed by writing down said observation.

However, I get things wrong from time to time. Watching hoops last night, it became clear to me I was wrong about Joe Burton. I couldn't stand his game the past two years. Yes, he could pass, but the passes were too hard and resulted in turnovers. Robinson stuck with him. As many of you know, I have had a man-crush on Robinson all along, and even when the team was bad, I was hesitant to criticize him. Mainly because I saw he could recruit, and was trying damn hard to be patient and let those recruits develop. Well, that has panned out nicely so far this year (but Robinson isn't out of the woods yet…let's see how he performs in the conference schedule). Anyway, Robinson stuck with Burton, and now Burton is playing great.

The point?

The point is that I was wrong. Even critical fans should look in the mirror and admit this once and a while. The lesson is not only humility, but in understanding why you were wrong, you become even more astute. For example, I saw Burton's "soft hands" and passing ability all along, but I was wrong to assume he would never learn how to take velocity off the passes and play with less overall anxiety.

Here is a great question: could we be wrong about Riley & Co.?

Well, I know Riley will get the team to 8 wins at some point in the future. I think fans who are overly bearish on Riley right now will be proven wrong. Fans who think he'll get the Beavs to a Rose Bowl will also be proven wrong. Fans who believe Riley will cap out at 8 wins in a year or two will be right. So, it depends on expectations. I think Bob D is right  in that Riley didn't become stupid overnight. The foundations of the current problems began in 2006, precisely the time I was banned from all popular Beaver forums for bringing them up. Now I see a good foundation via improved recruiting, and like the case of Joe Burton, it'll take a year or two of development before they all reach their potential.

The alarming thing here is that Riley couldn't (and still can't) recognize glaring problems himself. For example, he missed the obvious recruiting problems back in 2007, and without immediate defensive tackle help or a change to a 3-4 scheme, he'll be lucky to win four games next year. So, my criticism of Riley today is this: where is the urgency? Identify that you need two D1 defensive tackles. Then find two legitimate D1 defensive tackles…and pronto. There is playing time to sell. This should not be so difficult. I cannot stress how important DTs are to the future of this program. It reminds me of 2007 all over again when I warned about the lack of (a) offensive linemen and (b) defensive backs.

Anyway, don't want to tangent. The point of this article being I hold myself to the same standards as the people I criticize. I think every critical fan should do this. Admit when you're wrong, understand why you were wrong, and bounce back a wiser and fairer evaluator.

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  • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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    I’m with you on the Burton take. I’ve been on his case for the last 2 years, but his bounce passes are a thing of beauty some times. The guy really understands the geometry of the pass and knows how to fit the ball in small spaces while avoiding the opponents hands at the same time. I still don’t like his turn around jumper in the lane, but if he can develop that shot, he will be a force. The fact that opposing centers have to defend Burton and Brandt out past the free throw line is a tremendous asset for this team. It leads to open shots for everybody else near the basket.

    Riley has lost his fire. Robinson has it and it’s only growing within him. That’s the difference between these guys. One if content.

    Off topic but does anybody know who Dennis Erickson’s defensive coordinator was the year we went to the Fiesta Bowl? Any chance he’s available? That was one of the best defensive collegiate teams I’ve ever seen.

    • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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      *one “is” content

    • angry angry says:
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      I think it was Craig Bray.

      ps. Register an account so you can edit your own posts.

      • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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        http://www.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/2011/12/13/20111213arizona-state-coordinator-craig-bray-defense.html

        Recent article on Bray and the ASU defensive this past season. Listen to the guy taking accountability for the teams problems this year. Also, says he’s nearing the end of his career but if the right situation presents itself, he still wants to coach. Also, his son Trent Bray was the D line coach at ASU. Assuming Erickson decides to retire, Id like to see Bray considered as a Banker replacement. Has Banker been hired by Hawaii yet?

        • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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          Would a Beaver coach who accountable for his performance be accepted as part of the OSU staff? Do you think Craig can still learn to deflect reponsibility on his players?

          • GoBeavs90 says:
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            Bray would never be hired by Riley. Taking responsibility is so overrated. Riley would never approve. Now, if Bray were to work on blaming players and deflecting responsibility for another year he would be considered. It will hard though. Being classy like that takes time.

          • Orange fang says:
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            And doing a bang up job against Boise – usual feed fron this boards Posters “fire him”

    • GoBeavs90 says:
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      Craig Bray was the defensive coordinator in 2000

  • ean says:
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    I think some of Burtons improved play is related to the team in general. Seemed like in years past no one was ready for any pass let alone a Joe Burton bullet pass. Just keeping all 5 guys engaged has been huge for the guy. Burton has his limitations but when he plays his game and doesn’t try to do too much he is great.

    As far as the DT’s. I guess if we don’t go after or get any impact guys all we can do is hope to be wrong… lol. Maybe (unlikely) Riley knows of a few guys on the roster ready to break out.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Riley’s progress in securing commitments from April 26 (Clevland Wallace) to December 16 (Cade Cowdin) this year:

    QB – 1
    RB – 1
    WR – 1
    TE – 2
    O-Lineman – 6
    D-Lineman – 0
    LB’s – 3
    DB’s – 3

    Two big surprises to me: The first is the glaring lack of success on the defensive line, an area of clear need and abundant playing time opportunity. The second, the commitment of RB Chris Brown – not just a need, but a real talent that promises to significantly upgrade the offense if these incoming lineman deliver.

    Looking back, last year’s class had one DT and 9 “DE’s,” some of whom will likely be converted to DT. Obviously, Riley thinks this group can get it done. I disagree.

    I am a little surprised that Riley feels there is great need at LB – I thought there were a number of fast, athletic prospects on the roster that simply need development time and reps. Not just Doctor but Jabral Johnson, Welch, and Akuna. It seems Akuna is disappointing, and/or there are health issues across the unit.

    I don’t understand how Riley feels the defensive line is stocked and apparently just needs time, but with the LB unit, he feels talent/ability is lacking and JC answers are needed for immediate help. His assessment doesn’t seem consistent to me.

    • angry angry says:
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      Even before Thompson passed, a legit DT was a priority. It looks like Riley plans to convert OL to defense and/or LBs to DTs. It’s a lazy, band-aid approach that never works as well as recruiting legitimate prep DTs.

      • ObjCritic says:
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        Not to quibble, but I thought that even with Thompson, two legit, 300-lb DT’s were needed. I wouldn’t want to count on Castro – because of injury, motivation, or behavioral issues that turn into legal issues.

        Then throw in the injury insurance, and the benefits of rotating players, they simply need them to be effective in the Pac-12 and against Wisconsin for example.

        • angry angry says:
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          True. Agreed.
          Now they need 2 or 3 JCs, and so far they’ve landed 0. I mean, between now and February is the groundwork for the next four years. As it stands, teams are going to run right through the defense. A lot of “10 yard downfield tackles” in the team’s future.

          • ObjCritic says:
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            And the JCs that are left are left for a reason….anybody know anything about Ioane Gauta? Acccording to Scout, his only other offer is Iowa State. “Over 20 tackles and 2 sacks his freshman year.”

            He sounds like another “space occupier” a la Castro….

          • angry angry says:
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            He also has offers from Hawaii and Kansas State. KState is probably his leader (since it’s his only official visit so far). Has OSU even offered? He’s 6’4/300 and a JC…measurables sound promising, but I can’t find any film.

          • ObjCritic says:
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            Beavers recruiting, hosting Austin Flynn recently (Rivals). Didn’t realize they were still pursuing him.

  • GreatWhiteHunter says:
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    When the opportunity to admit I was wrong about something comes along, I’ll seize it. Still waiting for that chance though…

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    Angry, you’ve only been wrong once, and that was when you thought you were wrong.

    Humility and pure objectivity has no place in an internet sports forum.

    • angry angry says:
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      I think some humility and as much objectivity as possible both have a strong place in sports forums. I think they’re both lacking from most other forums, which is why I can’t/don’t read them unless I’m looking for information.

      Objectivity is so important…I realize we’re all biased on some level, but removing as much as possible is just…huge. Emotion is the biggest roadblock in finding objective truth. It is why I erred on Burton…so frustrated with him that it felt better to rip on him than accept he could/would improve. We’re doing the same thing (i.e. overreacting due to frustration) with Riley, though in Riley’s case it’s much more warranted. e.g. 10 years of the same errors is enough, etc.

      • GreatWhiteHunter says:
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        This makes me laugh…I called for a little objectivity RE: Riley during the season…and was told by one of your more “passionate” posters that you didn’t need a board monitor and to go “F” myself or something like that. LOL..yeah, that’s objective.

        I think you’ve been fair and objective with Riley fwiw.

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        Sorry Angry, my sarcasm didn’t come through due to my poor writing skills.

        That being said, the following is not intended as sarcasm.
        My biggest critique of many people on here is their apparent belief that a player cannot improve his skills. We see a young player make a couple rookie mistakes (dropped pass, fumble, missed tackle, etc) and he’s permanently labeled. This is especially true when people view a high school player’s youtube video. I mean how accurately can we really evaluate a player by watching a handful of plays that he selected to show the world? To counter my own argument I guess we could say that if he shows us only the top 6-8 plays and they still don’t look that good then that can be indicative of his level of potential performance.

        • angry angry says:
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          I think you can tell a lot from film, though. Things like speed, arm strength, etc. The things that you can’t measure are intellect, savvy, performance under pressure, “heart” (ugh, hate that adjective), etc.

          Film is a good framework. Then you need to either try to extract the intangibles somehow from the film (e.g. Trosin’s film shows great intangibles), or leave room for that upside.

          Now, take a guy like Cowdin, the LB who just committed. What’s to like about his film? I don’t see any tangibles or intangibles, but then I think, “Miami offered, so what am I missing?”…I still don’t know the answer to that. Maybe something that isn’t showing up. Right now he looks like Fabio in pads.

          • sparkyd73 says:
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            Well said though by Jason. The amount that I changed between 18 and 21 was amazing. Strength, speed, and body type was very different. I agree that film is a good indicator of raw talent, but it does not always indicate where someone with good coaching and body development will be in 3 years.

          • angry angry says:
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            True. Guys stop growing at 18, but they can definitely fill out. I guess some (rarely) have late growth spurts, too. Touche.

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    Someone like Riley doesnt go stupid overnight. But he doesnt get smart overnight either.

    Whatever is going on in OSU football coaching, it isnt good. One could plainly see the predictability of the play calling in most games. What was going on in the unpredictable games? One doesnt know, but one has to ask, why wasnt it going on all the time?

    The same for defense.

    As to blaming the losses on the quality of the players available, that isnt an excuse, its an admission of failure — failure to recruit better ones.

    Cant recruit to Corvallis? Hogwash. Lots of colleges are situated in podunk towns. Some of those have tremendous football programs. What is so great about Eugene? And where did Dennis Erickson get the players to almost win a national championship with OSU?

    So I dont think I am wrong when I call for Riley’s head. He has created a situation where the team isnt even competitive and loses to a Sac State, for gods sake. I dont care how smart he is or what a good coach he used to be. He aint now. I dont care if its his coordinators failings….he is responsible for them.

  • GoBeavs90 says:
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    I always thought Burton could be a really solid player for the Beavers, he just struggled with consistency. He tried to hard at times and can let his emotions get the best of him. He would play out of control at times. He has definitely matured and is playing at a nice tempo. He’s also no longer strictly going with just the baseline move. He is spinning to the middle and making some plays. I think he will improve that fade away in the lane. Just needs to work on it a little bit. Also, he’s become a really good rebounder. He gets after it on the glass. Great to see. Also, his free throw shooting is MUCH improved. I feel much more confident he’ll make free throws this year. He’s just a much more effective all around player.

    • ean says:
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      seems like whenever he launches that fade away it is with the shot clock ticking down and it is not that bad of a shot if the alternative is a 35 second call.

      • GoBeavs90 says:
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        Pretty much. He generally will not force a shot. What I like about Joe is he plays so unselfishly. Sometimes he is unselfish to a fault. He’ll have an open look but would rather pass to a teammate. That’s one reason why he’s such a good fit. He’s getting guys open shots and not looking to just put up points. You rarely see many selfish plays from the Beavers. They plays as a team. It is great to see.

      • angry angry says:
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        His passes are softer and his touch/shot are better. He’s become pretty good at cleaning up inside. First two years, it looked like he played with high anxiety. Very jittery timing. The game has slowed done for him, as they say. Hopefully he doesn’t make me eat my words in P-12 play. But, that’s how it’s looked thus far. He also doesn’t do that baseline move as much. That was a brutal move.

    • Will Overhead says:
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      And then there are the time you have to step back and remind yourself that you were RIGHT. I spent the last two seasons saying “watch these guys…”, even louder last year when Nelson took the floor. While it was often wasted by immaturity, the raw talent the Burton showed two years ago as far as making plays was amazing, and he’s just gotten better. The sheer athletic talent of Jared has been refined into a much more known and reliable quantity.

      And let’s not get too far without mentioning the very tangible fact that this is CR’s team now, and they play like a team. How many plays plays have been made unselfishly by virtually every player who has stepped on the floor this year? We now have a team who all want to play, and who all seem to enjoy making the TEAM look good.

      For those of us who were preaching patience…now’s our year.

      And, not to get to far ahead of myself, I think we can – should – live with one more year of patience on the gridiron as well.

      Just one, though.

  • beavers4life says:
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    What my thinking on all of this is this:

    We’re upset at the football program for a lot of reasons. I think the main reason is that we see our rival down south having success in all aspects of the game and we’re not. Look at basketball now, do we complain about the basketball team? Yes, but in a different way because we are having success early and our rival is not. So, we as fans mostly sit back and enjoy it and ask duck fans, “how’s your basketball team?” After they bring up football because they know we moved on in sports at that point. The school with success is more likely to accept whatever is going on becausein our minds, “whatever they’re doing, is working; so nothing is wrong.”

    • angry angry says:
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      I’m most upset about football because there’s a lot of waste. Things could be so much better with no addition to the budget. From gameday experience to marketing to the coaches drilling down details. People blame budget, but what I see are easy changes that require no money, only good decisions and logic. It’s what frustrates me most. More than the Duck’s success, etc. I could live with the Duck’s and Beaver’s losing if the Beavers did things the right/most efficient way possible. It’s the dumb, avoidable errors, waste, misguided thought process, etc that drive me nuts, personally.

      • ObjCritic says:
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        “We don’t have the money” is as easy as an excuse as “we started a record number of freshman.” It allows them to avoid responsibility for critically evaluating programs. In the case of the latter excuse (youth), they never acknowledge that it was the veteran players on the offensive line and in the secondary (Poyer excepted) that consistently under-performed.

  • JackBeav says:
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    OT… Jabari Brown to Mizzou.

    • brownale9000 says:
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      40 minutes of hell? I’d guess he’ll last about 12 minutes.

      • JackBeav says:
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        Oh whatever… Duck fans made the “Brown’s a quitter, we don’t want any quitters on our team” crap up just to make themselves feel better.

        Meanwhile, they love Devoe Joseph on their team.

        Morons.

        Besides, 40 minutes of hell went back to Arky. Frank Haith runs Mizzou now.

  • beaverbeliver says:
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    Riley and the Rose Bowl….Is that a joke?? He has never even taken a team to the Holiday Bowl. The best he can do for us is a good team and lets hope this season is the worst he can do. I just dont see him ever fielding a great team. After a couple of years where we were close I once believed in the guy, but after this season, I am a doubter.

    • sparkyd73 says:
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      It grates on my nerves when I see the statement that Riley has never “taken a team to the Holiday Bowl”. That is really only partially true, OS qualified for the Holiday Bowl a couple of years ago but they took the Ducks because the Duck fans travel better. If anything this argument helps the “what coach would want to come here” crowd, if they knew enough how to use it.

      It also annoys me that the Holiday Bowl is held up as the standard we want to achieve. Cal is playing Texas in it this year. Neither team was even good this year. The only thing that both teams were consistent with this year was inconsistency. And last year it was a 6-6 Washington.

      I know that was not the main point of your comment, and I too have serious doubts at whether or not Riley will get us to the Rose Bowl. But you hit a nerve with your supporting arguement of the Holiday Bowl because I’ve seen that referenced quite a bit in the past 2 seasons as defining the Riley era.

      • angry angry says:
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        Well, the two years they played for the Rose Bowl they weren’t exactly dominant. The league was down.

        It works both ways.

        PS. The HB committee took the Ducks because they’re hip. The Beavers will always be overlooked in that situation no matter how their fans travel. It’s a marketing/hipness issue…sexy pick always wins out.

        • sparkyd73 says:
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          Agreed, but that is really outside the control of the coach. College Football is a business and the Quackers with uncle Phil’s influence sells. But that likely is not going to change much with a new coach. My point though is the argument against Riley is his inability to win early season games, have a season with 0, 1, or 2 losses, adapt to the changing game, recruit consistently quality classes, etc… But the bowl game we make it to is the product of these other things, not the goal.

          Would anybody here be excited about going to the Holiday Bowl with a 6-6 season? For that matter, UCLA played 1 game with a chance to go to the Rose Bowl, with a 6-6 record this year. Would any of us accept that as Riley taking us to the pinnacle of Pac 12 success? I for one, would not.

          • angry angry says:
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            If the league was tough, I’d be content with a 6-6 Holiday Bowl. This is why I thought UCLA firing RN was odd. League was pretty hard this year with a couple teams in the top 10 and the Washington’s improved…

            If it was a down year and Riley got to a Holiday Bowl (well, now Alamo Bowl) at 6-6, I’d think less of it.

          • sparkyd73 says:
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            Again though, it is mostly impossible to control what bowl you go to. So much of it is a function of the league’s strength and now who you happen to play. I am looking to see the Beavs improve. Win the games you are supposed to win, be ready to play at the beginning of the season, recruit quality players, make games plan and adjustments that put the team into a place where they can win. Do all of that and they absolutely will do to better bowls. But again, fix what you can control, which bowl game you go to is not totally in coach’s control.

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        Don’t forget that the Holiday bowl is for 3rd place now in the Pac-12, the Alamo Bowl took 2nd place.

  • slamadam says:
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    i’m not sure i would say that you were wrong about burton. his improvement from year 1 to 2 to now 3 has been exponential. sometimes you are lucky enough to get a player that improves so much that initial impressions are made irrelevant, as is burton’s case. i will say that i was excited when he signed and always thought of him as somebody with potential to be an effective pac 12 player if for no other reason then he has a pretty unique game.
    regarding riley- he’s someone i think highly of as a person, and for what it’s worth im proud to root for a team that makes having a close knit family atmosphere a priority. more importantly, he’s put together a body of work over his time at ostate that people should appreciate. that said, i agree with the point about a lack of urgency. over riley’s second tenure i feel like he’s become painfully old fashioned to the point that oregon state is falling behind the other programs of the pac 12. these next two or three seasons to me serve as a metaphorical crossroads where riley and his staff (whomever it may be comprised of) will have to embrace a good deal of change.

    • ean says:
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      I thought he regressed his sophomore season.

      • slamadam says:
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        very possibly, but i think its more true that the team as a whole did, mainly the seniors

      • sparkyd73 says:
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        I think it is very telling about last season that all you hear from this years team is how the team chemistry is. It is often said by teams that they get along and all, but this team makes it such a topic that to me it is a commentary on previous years. There obviously was much going on last year behind the scenes that affected things negatively.

        In the spirit of Angry’s original post, maybe I was wrong to criticize CR’s substitution paterns so much last year. He may have just been walking a tightrope to keep the psche of the team somewhat functional.

    • beavers4life says:
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      Riley and Co. will attempt to do good at OSU, but will fail because they fail to see what needs to change. the best thing that can happen to OSU is if either Banker OR Langsdorf leave for Hawai’i’s head coaching job. With either of them, at least 1 side of the ball will improve in either play calling on the offensive side or the formations OSU uses on defense. I don’t know why we use 3-4 at times, 4-3 at others and even the 3-3-5 on obvious passing situations to put more DB’s in the backfield? So if the 3-3-5 is used sparingly, then teams can’t defend it very well if we bring it out at random times to keep offenses honest. the 3-4 is used as the new “Base Defense” and the 4-3 is used as the “Alternate Base Defense”. This will make it difficult to allow offensive teams to be in a rhythm of plays due to the type of personnel we’ll have on the field. Damn I love football! lol Oh, and chess!

  • brownale9000 says:
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    In 2006 you were calling for OL and CB prospects, but Riley ignored the obvious? Is that what you’re saying?

    Because I look at the guys we got that year, and I see them going after both of those positions.

    The 2007 recruiting cycle we got commits from:

    CB – Brandon Hardin
    CB – David Ross
    CB – Josh Lagrone

    and

    OT JC Jon Ioane
    OT JC Una Smiley
    OT JC Michael Cole

    OT Rory Ross
    OT Kevin Pankey

    Now, you can surely lament the fact that most of those guys sucked. You’d be correct, but that’s a matter of talent scouting. I’d agree, that was a bad bunch of work on the part of the coaching staff.

    But to say that the problem was ignored is incorrect. That 2007 class, along with 2008 when we signed 2 JC o-linemen, was the last time we gambled on JC O-line help and it burned us so badly, we really haven’t gone JC for O-line since. I think it was the correct decision. By the time it was obvious that we’d struck out on 5 JC prospects, we loaded up in 2009 with 6 high school O-line guys. I don’t think they were ignoring anything. I think we just had 2 horrific classes in a row, which made for 2 and possibly a 3rd down season.

    • JackBeav says:
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      The point back then was that OSU ended up with “plan C” options instead of going after ideal prospects to fill those needs. Of all the listed signees, David Ross was the only touted prospect at his position. The other CB’s were/are safeties. JUCO o-linemen are where they are for a reason. And Pankey was a TE prospect who projected to a decent OT project.

      I don’t know why we didn’t at least check down to pick some of the low hanging fruit instead of relying on walk-ons who did not qualify as low hanging fruit. There were some big boys from Ashland, Milwaukie and up in Washington who never got major offers and wanted to play for the Beavs but ended up going to someplace that wanted them. Not scouring your own backyard for those kids hurts your overall roster depth and makes the other regional opponents look better to future prospects. I think Colin Kelly was the only kid OSU actually did pull the trigger on during those years. That was just sad.

      • angry angry says:
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        Exactly. I know we signed players at those positions, but they were not Pac-10 level.

        I guess my point is that in 2013 we’ll look back on this class and understand why we can’t stop the run, just like it was obvious in 2007 we’d have OL/DB issues. The time to address it is now, and Riley is saying “we don’t need DTs”…we need 3 DTs now that Thompson has passed away.

        Gotta make everyone aware of this, since apologists like to make excuses for Riley. Let’s be clear: TODAY IS THE DAY TO RECRUIT DTs.

        I’ll end with that.

      • JackBeav says:
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        To be clear, I think David Vieru was one of the low hanging fruit types who everyone will wonder how they missed on him as a DT prospect. He was a local type on a not so great team, but he should have been noticed by someone. Even though he was only a walk-on, he has the tools and the attitude to be a winner on the field, let alone off the field. I’m not sure how we got him away from Nigel Burton, but I think he’ll be a steal.

        • ObjCritic says:
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          I certainly hope so. I’ve read some encouraging things here about him from you and I think maybe SilverStream(?), hoping one of Riley’s diamonds in the rough turns out to be more than a charcoal briquet….

          • JackBeav says:
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            The reason I think Vieru will succeed is because he’s his own diamond in the rough, not Riley’s. He turned down full rides from two or three lower level schools to play for OSU instead. I think that qualifies as a miss on Riley’s part as well.

            It won’t be spun that way in the end, but it’s the reality of the situation. Vieru is more than solid mentally, and he has some great physical tools. If he succeeds it will be because he did the work to overcome everyone’s expectations, including his own coaches at OSU.

          • ObjCritic says:
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            And he has a wrestling background, correct?

          • JackBeav says:
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            Yep… state heavyweight champ his senior year. I believe the other walk-on, Welch was the same in Washington, and Josh Mitchell was the same last year as a junior.

          • Beavocalypse says:
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            Everything Jack and Silver said about Vieru is true. I know him personally and the guy is ambitious and wants to be a champion at any cost. I hope he gets his shot.

      • brownale9000 says:
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        “The point back then was that OSU ended up with “plan C” options instead of going after ideal prospects to fill those needs.”

        Ending up with and going after are not mutually exclusive.

        We went after a lot of players who were at least closer to ideal than what we ended up with. In fact, Rivals shows that we had 23 offers out for OL in 2007. Including Carson York, Darrion Weems, Jaivorio Burkes, Taylor Dever, Marcel Jones, etc. All three star or better prospects with 7+ offers each.

        As for checking down to low hanging fruit…isn’t that what we did?

        Anyway, my point was that the problem wasn’t ignored. Improperly addressed? Sure. Ignored? No.

        • JackBeav says:
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          No… checking down to low hanging fruit means we pull in “plan B” types who would be projects but would pan out in the system. Kids who start out with size and a modicum of talent that a decent coach can mould into players… not smallish TE’s who need to put on 80-90 pounds just to look like a D1 o-lineman.

          And why were the coaches pulling in JUCO linemen anyway? Our o-lines were pretty good during those years. but they all would have been gone by now anyway… just like they all are now.

          Our coaches are looking for the DT “plan B’s now if they have any sense… kids like AJ Fanele, Andrew Leaumu… and especially Edmund Faimalo.

          Then again, if those three aren’t being heavily recruited, they may be future JUCO’s themselves.

          • JackBeav says:
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            Without knowing qualifying statuses, here’s what I was talking about with “plan B” types.

            Andrew Leauma is a high motor, high energy, leader on the field. He’s probably undervalued because he’s only 5’11”. But I seem to remember one Elvis Dumervil embarrassing one of our better o-lines… and many others since.
            http://www.aigafoundation.com/profile/Aaron

            Edmund Faimalo should be recruited at the BCS level, but for some reason is committed to Sac State. He’s a rugby player who has only played football for three years. Those guys never pan out.
            http://www.hudl.com/athlete/78286/edmund-faimalo

            AJ Fanene seems to be a little better known. So I’m thinking grades are an issue with him. Still, it hasn’t stopped us in the past.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    I was asking for the same thing in 2007, and every year since. They have failed to recruit the position and it has hurt the program. The really big thing is the inability to recruit locally when there is a young DL talent they have lost him every time from Suh to Thompson to Wade to Odighizuwa. It’s hard to recruit the position and find talent that when you have them in your own backyard and you can’t close on them its painful.

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      Amen.

    • brownale9000 says:
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      We’ve brought in 14 defensive linemen in the last 2 seasons, plus at least 2 position changes from OL to DE.

      • ObjCritic says:
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        That’s the quantity over quality approach. It’s contributes to an OSU oxymoron, “shallow depth,” where a team has lots of bodies, and little drop-off from starter to third-string….

  • john says:
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    agreed. I could barely put up with burton before but now he’s certainly earning his minutes and running the offense well.

  • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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    When should we get word on Banker leaving to Hawaii?

    • ean says:
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      The O-live article makes it sound unlikely

      • OneEyedKing says:
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        Sounds like there were actual, legit candidates being interviewed now as well; assistant from Texas, assistant from the Jacksonville Jags, etc. Looking far less likely.

        Burton still doesn’t rebound efficiently, just grabbing boards that land on him, still doesn’t play defense, and his offense is atrocious a lot of the time. I do not think Joe is a good player, but he’s at least functional in the Princeton.

        • JackBeav says:
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          Koetter? OC for the worst offense in the NFL? And that whole rape thing at ASU?

          Chow? Not good enough to be UCLA’s OC, so he went to Utah… where their offense certainly shined this year?

          Akina? DC for a Texas team which just dominated their league with all the top prospects anyone could ever want?

          Norwood? Probably the best of the five choices. Young, solid… looking to get out of Whacko before RGIII leaves and they go back to being a .500 team at best. But Penn State has made him a priority as well.

        • ean says:
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          we are not really running a Princeton as much anymore. He is not a great rebounder but he gets his body on people and helps to create rebound opportunities for teammates. He is a better rebounder than Brandt though. The thing I probably love most about our bigs is the fact that their skills are all so complimentary. Brandt with the shooting. Burton with the passing and creativity. Moreland with the shot blocking and rebounding. Collier with the ability to finish left and right, touch around the basket and all around play. It is just a fun group of guys that really mesh well together.

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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    Oregon State’s Banker: “To the dismay of some people … I’m far from going anywhere right now’

    http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2011/12/oregon_states_banker_to_the_di.html

    And I say SHIT!!!!

    • alex says:
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      That quote doesn’t make sense with the rest of the article, because he mentions bring excited to coach UH a few sentences later. Is he saying he thinks he’s outclassed?

  • ean says:
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    Looking ahead to next year I wonder which of the 3 recruits will be the greyshirt on the basketball team? Maybe Ostling since we will have a ton of frontcourt depth? Also it would be great to see this team with a true SF. Collier is more of a PF. Murphy is to slow on D to defend wings and get much burn. I feel like that is one dimension that is missing even though the Beavs do a great job of mixing in Cunningham and Nelson as 3rd guards and playing that starting lineup without a true SF.

    • sparkyd73 says:
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      I think Collier has actually done a great job defending the SF position. Any defender that they put on him is a mismatch when we have the ball, which really creates issues for the opposing coaches. Collier has done a fairly good job of staying out of foul trouble as well. Moreland is probably closer to a SF, but with ridiculous length. If he fills out, he may move into more of a PF role, but now he really is a SF. If he is able to strengthen his offensive game, he is going to be a force.

      The other advantage that CR has is that if the other team has a slashing SF, Jared can always lock down on them, at 6′ 4″ and his jumping ability he really can play bigger than he is.

      I think this team’s success has much to do with the match-up problems that it creates. I would love to see more depth everywhere and I think next year’s recruits may provide that. I would love to see the program get to the point where they are able to be deep with players from all grade levels, so they are competing every year for the title and the NCAAs.

    • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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      Just a couple of mumbles.

      1) Murphy hasn’t had a lot of American game experience so we might be premature in judging him. He also hasn’t been able to play for a while so there could be some rustiness to his game.

      2) As I understand it the team’s approach to D is play your man as though there’s always going to be another player or players to back you up if your man gets away from you.

      As Brandt is getting more minutes and becoming more comfortable it’s looking like he will be able to make a meaningful contribution to the team. Perhaps the same will be true for Murphy.

      • sparkyd73 says:
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        I’m still very intrigued by Murphy. I hope that he can catch up to the speed of the game because I think he could really provide another weapon. I certainly haven’t closed the book on him at this point, but at the same time he is not getting in to the game enough right now to catch up to the speed of the game. I would have liked to have seen him get more time in the real minutes of some of the big wins that we’ve been having.

      • JackBeav says:
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        1) True. Look at Berto from last year to this year…. Jared from his frosh to soph years, etc. Just getting up to speed in the NCAA’s is enough of a challenge.

        2) Partly true. Murphy has failed to rotate (or been late) a number of times as the secondary defender to the wing on screens. In man D, you force the man to the baseline then beat him there. You never allow him to go to the middle, because all your help relies on cutting off the passing angles to the front of the rim as much as the shots themselves. Murphy is still stiff in the hips, which leads him to be flat-footed on perimeter D. If you watch him as he offers the baseline, you’ll notice that he turns his shoulders long before he moves his feet. Some people think that’s because he gets beat to the baseline. But it’s really because he’s not being fundamentally sound in offering that angle.

        Watch Devon do it, and you’ll see how it’s supposed to be done. He’s in attack mode whenever the wing is working a rocker step. Every twitch the offense makes, Devon adjusts and anticipates, just daring the fool to go where he wants him to go. Part of that is the balance he creates by putting one hand in the opponent’s middle and the other wherever he looks. You’re not going to whip the ball through the middle of your body against Devon, which means you’re on your heels while bringing it over your head or swinging it below your knees. And trying to stop the momentum of an off-balance move like that usually leads to things like traveling ar losing the handle. So Devon knows your options better than you do when you hold the ball and position your feet a certain way.

        Playing from the top is likely more what we’re talking about. Our guards are really good at moving their feet laterally. They take away the initial lanes and force the drives into help more often than they just get beat. But everyone gets beat now and then, and they have quick enough hands that they will take it away if you know you have them beat and start looking for a secondary move in the mid-range. But those quick hands are derived from being in good position and using balance to add a second chance when you get beat. Shoulders are back, hands are facing upward (so hard to teach young kids not to swing down or sideways on a ball) and reaches are direct or from underneath. Refs will rarely call those kind of attacks because of the same reason they’re so disruptive to the handler. It just doesn’t look like your average reach where someone is going to hit arm or hand or contact body. When they do get lazy, they get cheap fouls called on them. But they really do well making it all look like they’re fully in control while defending, allowing only the offense to initiate contact, altering the handle and drive angles, etc.

        And it’s so much more fun to watch than the plodding trap zones. It’s a risk/reward proposition, and these guys are good enough to reap rewards.

  • beavers4life says:
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    Sounds like Banker doesn’t really have a clue where he stands in his chances of getting the UH job. Seems like it’s one of those, “I really don’t know, but I’m just happy to be here.” situation. Also, someone mentioned the other candidates….Where does a DC who gave up close to 600 yards of rushing offense against the *ucks the past few years lead you? I just see it as a “nice gesture” since Banker has experience in recruiting there. That’s the only upside I see in this situation. The other question is…what offense will he run?

  • Jboy says:
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    You guys take sports way to far… to the point where you’ll admit when you’re wrong. Big woop, it’s a game not a real-life moral issue…

  • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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    Yes, I say big WOOP to you good sirs!! You have taken sports from way…to far…

  • JackBeav says:
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    Sounds like Chow will be in at UH.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    A little positive press for Chricton on Yahoo Sports, recognized at #7 as one of top 10 FR in country:

    http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Superlatives-The-best-breakout-players-of-2011?urn=ncaaf-wp11720

    Ducks put two on there, their center and Thomas.

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    To all the rabid fans who cant just love the school they went to, but have to hate the one down the road. I dont see it that way. Yes, i want OSU to beat UO, but the relative success has nothing to do with it.

    I hate our football coaching staff not because UO is successful, but because we really suck. In some games we werent even competitive. I wouldnt mind losing to UO if we at least could show we MIGHT win. Sports is a chancy thing….anyone can have a down day and lose to almost anyone. But to lose while being uncompetitive is unacceptable.

    To me it is in fact better for UO to be at the top when we play them.. Then we knock them down while elevating ourselves. Nothing was worse than the bad old days, when both programs were in the bottom 10. So just get us competitive again.

    • sparkyd73 says:
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      I don’t think that you hate the other school because they are the rival. I don’t think that most people hate the Ducks because of their success. I didn’t “hate” the Ducks when I moved back 6 years ago, but I’m fairly close to that now. The Duck fans are so obnoxious (not all of course) and continuously talk like they are better than anyone else. I know there are Beaver fans that are the same way, but not as many. Many of the most obnoxious fans I know are bandwagon type fans that would just as soon slink over to the Beavs if the winning changed. U of O and OSU are the same in advantages/disadvantages except for 1 person. If there was no Phil Knight, the Ducks would not be as successful as they are. Very few duck fans have any clue that is the case and instead think it is just some superiority that the UofO has. That is what takes a rivalry to hatred.

      When I lived in Michigan and was insulated from Duck fans, no hatred. Now that I live in So. Oregon and have to deal with them, hatred has grown.

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