05.Mar.2011 Basketball: Arizona State @ Oregon State

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Craig Robinson has officially lost his team.

Rumor is the Beavs will be without Jared Cunningham, Ahmad Starks, Devon Collier, Calvin Haynes, Lathan Wallace, and Daniel Deane due to team infractions.

Add the rumors of Roberto Nelson being unhappy and looking to transfer, and you have the elements of a grand ol' time at Gill.

Anyway, if you want to watch the disarray (out of morbid curiosity), you're in luck–today's game will be streamed live on this website: http://foxsportsarizona.com

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  • OS_Beaver says:
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    The Beavers just have to relaize that you have to FIGHT to win. You can’t be Ok with being 8 or more points behind for the vast majority of the game. You have to show the refs and everyone watching that you very much CARE about the end result and every time you are down a bucket or two the sence of urgency that this is not OK and has to be switched around has to be apparent. If they showed that kind of fight and it was obvious in their hearts they HAVE TO WIN, then alot more will go right on the court. Don’t allow easy buckets and make sure someone is alwsy getting back on defense. Take ALOT of PRIDE in your defense and maintaining your own lead through most of the game and BE DAMN SURE you end up with the most points. This is the sport of basketball. Craig Robinson should be able to instill the WILL to WIN and a MUCH better confidence in his team.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    Wow, are you serious about the infractions? I guess Roberto will finally get 30 minutes.

    • angry angry says:
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      I am.
      Add Chris Brown to the list.

      We might see Craig suit up today!

      • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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        Where’d you hear about the rumors?

        • angry angry says:
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          Friends of Nelson’s here in Santa Barbara.
          The only thing stopping him from filing transfer papers is he wants to turn pro sooner rather than later. Funny given how poorly he has played, but he believes he can have one monster season (next year) and then get out of Dodge.

          The odds of a transfer are still high (~80%).

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            He has to get on the court first. I was being sarcastic at first, but I seriously think CR is punishing Roberto for the Dohrmann crap. Am I crazy?

          • locusimperium says:
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            whats the Dohrmann crap?

          • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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            He wrote in his blog that Roberto should play and Craig has no reason not to play him. Also, basically that the seniors have infected Roberto and he wasn’t playing how he should be. He then went on to criticize Craig’s coaching style.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            Writer for Sports Illustrated also. Author of “Play Their Hearts Out” about AAU basketball, it featured Roberto in some chapters.

          • helmsley says:
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            Roberto didn’t say anything against CR in the article/blog. He is only quoted as saying he was tired of losing. Besides, CR said he didn’t read what Dohrmann wrote.

          • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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            You know Craig read it. He can lie all he wants, but we know he read it.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            Roberto, his family and Dohrmann are tight. It can’t help but get under CR’s skin after Dohrmann criticized his coaching decisions.

          • Mamabeaver says:
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            To mckalk: I am a very close family member to Roberto. I do not consider myself TIGHT as you put it with Dohrmann. Check your facts before you write about someone’s family

          • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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            If Roberto leaves and this team loses 20 games, and they also have all these team infractions, how does Craig keep his job?

          • angry angry says:
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            Because OSU can’t afford to buy him out.

          • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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            That’s the tough part. De Carolis has to be more spot on with coaching hires because they don’t have the money not to be. Beavers are stuck with Craig for another year, which means the program will get worse.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            Could he transfer to a D-2 program without losing a year and try to dominate lesser competition?

          • Laura Green says:
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            @angry- Not much of a friend to if youcall his playing poor. If you have watched him since High School or piort, Junior High you would know that he is not a poor player. This is season he has given all he can give in the short amount of time that he has been given to play. The game at Arizona State shows it all! He knew he would play the whole game and knew he wouldn’t be taken out over a BS foul, or a travel etc. Coach continuously takes him out over BS! EVERY TIME. Nelson took over the court and showed what he is capable of, and more 34pts, 14/15 Free Throws, 5 Assists and 2 Steals. Thats not what I call a poor player. And mark my words copy and save this post because I know from here on out ROBERTO NELSON is going to DOMINATE and he WILL have MONSTER seasons!!!

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        I always felt like there was something “weird” with this team chemistry-wise from the get go beyond the court. Too much talent to play this badly over the course of an entire season with engaged coaching.

        Weren’t you the one that reported that Starks and Haynes could not stand each other? I wonder what the new guys were promised from CR versus the reality of the seniors still getting a lot of minutes.

        20 loss season is starting to look like it is going to happen. That has always been the dividing line between mediocore and awful in D-1 basketball. CR can’t be happy about that being on his resume.

        • angry angry says:
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          I think JackBeav reported that here.

          The media spun it in a way that Haynes was giving tough love/acting as a mentor.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            And then recently Cunningham was saying that Haynes was his “mentor”. Good lord, this is wrong on so many levels.

  • angry angry says:
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    Check the football forum for an interesting football rumor regarding RB coach…

  • osbeavs says:
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    I am not surprised by this. A coworker of mine told me that her children were friends with the tarver’s. Apparently they didn’t like CR either. They didn’t like his style nor how he ran the program. He was losing the team a long time ago.

  • Beavocalypse says:
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    OSU Basketball has now entered the ridiculous phase of failure that our football program once had. Well done Bobby D.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    These ASU guys don’t seem to know why Cunningham is not starting or they were told to get it quiet.

  • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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    Well Omari is playing

    • angry angry says:
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      SOMEONE has to play…or CR would be suiting up…not a pretty sight.

  • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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    It might have been Devon Collier instead of Omari Johnson who got in trouble. Collier isn’t starting for the first time in like 3 months

    • angry angry says:
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      True.

      McShane starting says it all. Who next, Jones?

      BTW, what is the score? I’m watching the ball game. Basketball lost me a few weeks ago.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      Good point. I wish it had been Omari. He probably does not even have enough energy to get into to trouble!

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    Roberto is playing awful so far in his “leadership” debut. Probably pressing knowing that he is going to get minutes today.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    Angry, I once again tip my hat to you and your information. Outstanding work! Do you think Buker knows something and does not want to say? The ASU announcers seem clueless as to why this lineup is on the floor.

    • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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      Buker told me it was because of curfew. He knew about it but wasn’t mentioning it before that for some reason.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      How are these announcers so stupid that it is not dawning on them yet?

  • locusimperium says:
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    can someone post a more specific link to the streaming game?

  • helmsley says:
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    This is weird!

  • ean says:
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    what a weird game. Burton is playing guard… it is his dream come true. Nice to see that Nelson will be given a somewhat legit shot… although it would be nice to see him play meaningful minutes with a decent lineup.

  • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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    Roberto looks awesome right now. Craig looks like more of a fool that he hasn’t been playing him much.

    • ean says:
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      it would be cool to see him get real minutes with a legit lineup. He has the best vision on the team.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      And then he forces a shot off of the side of the backboard! I guess better than passing it in to Burton.

      • ean says:
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        he wanted the foul… thought there was some contact. A call you don’t get as a freshman.

  • ean says:
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    I don’t know why Nelson would transfer. D-2 is not going to get him anywhere. No point in sitting out another year. I would think the logical options would be go pro overseas or stay put.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    Is Burton uncoachable? How many times does anything good could come out of this “baseline move”? Maybe 20% of the time?

    • ean says:
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      I just don’t think he has many other moves. His baseline move worked verse AZ… I don’t think AZ did much scouting on that game. I think Burton could be a solid change of pace big but he does try to do too much some times. Oh well… I’d rather see turnovers from trying to play team ball than TO’s from running down defenders going 1 on 1.

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        Not having any other moves is kind of a testament right there. He is almost a junior.

        • ean says:
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          yeah… I don’t see why Brown doesn’t get more of a shot. He must be really bad in practice… either that Rob is clueless.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            I guess in theory Moreland would have taken up some of Burton’s minutes by now.

  • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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    Roberto with 18 points, rest of team has 10 points. Roberto showing how good he is. He needs help today though. He won’t be getting any, unfortunately.

    • ean says:
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      6 TO’s are ugly… some of them are him trying to do too much which he kind of has to do.

  • ean says:
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    I still think with a complete roster the best thing we could do is move Cunningham off the ball. He can get up to the rim of the backdoor cut and there is no point in having him run the offense if he is never going to pass.

  • helmsley says:
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    At least there isn’t a substitution every other play.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    The ASU guys were rubbing it in earlier on Jahii Carson…they must know the background, LOL

    • ean says:
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      yeah… didn’t the opposite happen with Cunningham though. Although I probably would rather have Carson than Cunningham.

  • the1beav says:
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    Hey angry, I found someone who shares you sentiment on the Cartoon Beaver logo:

    http://duckingbeaver.com/2011/03/05/marketing-some-know-others-dont/

  • ean says:
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    I really like Nelsons ability to see the floor and his hoops IQ. I wish he got more of a chance this year. I wonder if coaches problem with keeping the players together has something to do with him not playing the best combination of players.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      Yeah, he is the only guard out there for the Beavers and playing with a group of marginally talented role players.

  • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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    The guys doing the ASU broadcast are so ill-informed it’s embarrassing.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      These jerks are acting like beating the Beavers with 5 players is an amazing feat.

      • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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        Derek Glasser has always been a douche so it figures. They’ve made so many threes because the Beavers have 1 guard available! It’s not some amazing accomplishment that they’re going to beat the Beavers.

        • mckalk mckalk says:
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          Yeah, I mean these idiots can’t even understand that the Beavers played with 4 incompetent bigs and one guard who was in the doghouse for some reason the previous 2 games.

    • helmsley says:
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      They seem like nice guys, but calling Joe Burton a “great passer” ?

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    Even this game, CR has no idea how to adjust and get Roberto a couple of open shots or else the players are not smart enough to execute. It to ASU awhile to figure out how to stop Roberto.

  • OS_Beaver says:
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    SCREW THIS STUPID ZONE!!!…PLAY MAN TO MAN!!!!!!!!

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      Sendek is a class act, playing his starters and shooting threes.

    • helmsley says:
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      Perhaps he actually is worried about fouls but they could still do some man-to-man – it’s like CR doesn’t care that AZ is tying their school record for 3s. Is there a point at which someone can grab CR and TELL him what he must be done?

      • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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        You can’t really play much man-to-man defense with 5 guys. It will exhaust them because nobody can give them a breather. They had to play zone.

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        I don’t think anyone will be telling him anything until BDC has to give him his walking papers sometime late March next year.

  • ean says:
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    Berto better get minutes in the tourney.

    • osbeavs says:
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      Are we even gunna send a team? I mean honestly, lets just pack it in and fire CR. Maybe we should let the Women’s BBall coach take a shot at coaching our guys in the tourni.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    Do these two douchbags actually do the games on Fox Sports Arizona like Lamar Hurd and the other dude? I can’t fathom them being on TV.

    • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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      I think they have done a game on FSN Arizona before. They’re horrible. Lamar gives credit to other teams and doesn’t give backhanded insults, he also actually is informed.

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        Lamar is great and keeps getting better. There are times when he gives CR a pass like the rest of the media, but he does his research and knows both teams.

  • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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    The Sun Devils launched 39 threes. I wonder how many they launched in the second half. Has to be like 22 or 23

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      I know they killed the Beavers, but I can see why they are a crappy team. If the Beavs had bigs that could make lay-ups they would have been in this game even with the 5 players they had.

  • OS_Beaver says:
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    Good game Roberto minus the first half turnovers. Tired of zone with this team. Giving up 51 points to 3 pointers is RIDICULOUS and a JOKE! The Beavers have some talent. Giving up a bunch of 3’s and not having the confidence to stick with all teams or have the gumption to actually lead and win games is the biggest problem. If I was playing in a gym and I made a point to stop 3’s I could. Letting good shooters find their rythm with open 3’s that are so difficult to claw back from is a BIG MISTAKE. This game is just a shining example with that. I would rather more random shots that were closer but more difficult to get in a “groove” from were allowed than just these standard 3’s from a foot behind the line. We don’t have Seth Tarver to play a 1-3-1. Man to man needs to be played probably 75% of the game. Hope Roberto can find pride in helping the Beavs earn “W’s” next year and does not transfer or anything. We should almost certainly be better but CR needs to find a better mix. Shaftenaar was such a gem of a player in hindsight.

    • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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      Stopping the threes by ASU today was harder than you think. Omari Johnson was playing the 2 guard. Then they had Burton, Brandt and McShane. They couldn’t close out to shooters too hard, otherwise they would blow passed them for lay-ins. They needed more guards to stop ASU. They didn’t have them so you saw what happened.

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        Yeah, and the team is not very good at stopping threes when they do have guards. ASU would have had to be “Beaver bad” on three’s for them to have had a chance in this game.

  • orangejulius orangejulius says:
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    Recently had a discusion with the parents of a current Beav player, asked what dad thought of CR.

    Dad’s answer, “no comment.”

    Yeah I think everyone is on board with CR at this point.

  • osbeavs says:
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    Know what the Miami Heat and the Beavs have in common…?

    Both allowed 51 pts in 3’s in the last two days.

    • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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      So what you’re saying is Roberto Nelson is like LeBron James? I’ll take it lol

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    I was checking Dohrmann’s website. Looks like he knew Roberto was going to play the whole game yesterday. Mentions that Roberto does not go out with the team, worked out well for him.

  • Timber says:
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    This is the only Beaver site I read anymore (and I’m so sick of the losing I didn’t go to one game this year) but I think the rumors of players/coaches hating each other, defections and firing Robinson are greatly exaggerated.

    • osbeavs says:
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      Well if they were exaggerated this mass suspension was a bit heavy handed then.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      I think you will find that everyone here pretty much realizes/understands that CR is going to get a 4th year to see if he can turnaround things with his own players. Next year excuses will not play.

      • osbeavs says:
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        Oh, I fully get that, I just wish it weren’t true. I think there is a good chance he gets two more years (that is how many he has on his contract right?)

  • uncanny says:
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    How many players have we had the past decade that could actually score 30 points in a pac-10 game? I don’t feel like researching it but I am going to guess that I could count them on one hand. We just don’t get players with that kind of talent very often. I don’t care that it’s the last place team and half of our team was suspended, scoring 34 points in a pac-10 game is impressive. The fact that Berto has never really been able to get meaningful minutes is squarely on CR. I would have no problem with Berto transferring. I think for his sake it would be the best idea. His talent and college eligibility is being wasted by CR and if he wants a fair shake at the NBA and good minutes he should probably be looking for a different school. The same goes for Jared and Collier. When I watch the team play those are the three guys who, with the right coaching and leadership, I feel could be all-conference performers.
    I went into this season with so much optimism about this team only for them to end up as one of the worst D-1 teams in the nation. Hopefully the drama around this last game will shed some light on the fact that everything is not right with this team and quell the “just wait til next year” talk that has preceded every season since CR got here. It’s a shame because we do have the talent to make some noise in the pac-10, but with CR as the coach I just don’t see it. I have always been of the mindset that CR could bring basketball life back to OSU, but after this season, specifically this game, I am off that bandwagon. As long as CR is the coach, we will not be in the top half of the pac-10 standings.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    The fascinating thing to me is that CR did a great job his first season using a system he believed in with a team of Jay John misfits, but then once he gets some “talent” he does not know what the hell to do with it!

    I think he has become a “one hit wonder” as far as the P-10 goes, but maybe he could still have success at the mid-major level with his zones and The Princeton. I mean we all thought he was a great in game coach three years ago.

    • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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      When he had the Tarver brothers, Roeland Schaftenaar, and Ricky Claitt they actually made him into some great in-game coach and motivator, which just wasn’t the case. They always played their asses off and worked hard, guys who lack talent know they have to play their asses off to have a shot at winning games and they did that. With the guys who are more talented they can sometimes coast off their talent and not play as hard, it’s been on Craig to get them to play hard and figure out to win games, he doesn’t know how to do that.

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        Also, in my opinion CR undersold the Jay John talent a little bit. All the guys you mentioned are playing professional basketball and doing very well. Granted, not NBA talent, but not every player keeps playing after college.

        • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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          No doubt. They had something current Beavers don’t, work ethic and self discipline. Have to wonder, how often did those former Beavers cover for mistakes by the current seniors because they were so disciplined. They didn’t have a ton of talent, they had some though, but they did certain things well, and knew what they did well and made the simple play. Have to also wonder, if you put Ricky Claitt and Seth Tarver in the lineup and take out Omari Johnson and Calvin Haynes how many more wins would they have?

          It also did bother me though, that Craig talked about some of the players like they were crap. It seemed like he loved Haynes but guys like Roeland and Claitt didn’t get enough respect from him.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            Yeah, I mean you never saw those god awful lay up performances in 08/09 and the zone was shut down on occassion. Teams actually struggled to make threes against them.
            You might laugh, but Ricky Claitt in an all star in the Danish league.. Seth has an NBA body, but needs to develop more on offense, but doing well in the NBA-D. Schaft is solid in the Spanish league. These guys were not scrubs.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    What is hilarious to me is that CR constantly has talked about the Jay John guys in negative terms yet Claitt leaves and they get a little worse, Tarver and Schaft leave and now they are terrible. I watched some highlights of the UTEP CBI championship game a few days ago, they looked like a competent, disciplined team. If he meant “certain” John guys then he should have sent them packing like every other D-1 coach does when he takes over a program.

    Oh and guess who they play on Wednesday? The Ducks! Talk about a perfect negative scenario setting up…three losses to your arch-rival and a 20 loss season all in one night!

    • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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      They’ll have a shot to beat the Ducks…………….if Roberto jacks it up 20+ times. If Roberto doesn’t play 30+ minutes like I’ve been saying he should for at least 2 months, I will be throughly convinced Craig has no idea what he’s doing, I probably already know that though. Who wants to bet Calvin Haynes will play more than Roberto?

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        Yeah, I am a little dubious too. I am sure things go back to “normal” on Wednesday. Did you notice that despite an outstanding performance in the first half no plays were really run for Roberto in the second half? Once again CR at the top of this game making adjustments at half-time.
        He was 4-6 on three’s and I am not sure he even took a three in the second half. Is the concept of a hard, high screen by a big that complicated for a D-1 team to execute? To his credit, he did not force his shots and I can forgive the TO’s considering who his teammates were.

        • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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          Beavers will play Stanford in the first round. Will be interesting to see if they show up.

    • helmsley says:
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      CR knows m2m works against Oregon. And CR knows Roberto Nelson can play the game. If he doesn’t implement both, there is simply no hope for the man. Ditto if CR can’t determine what he needs to do to outcoach Altman based upon their previous 2 games this season.

    • cloudy says:
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      • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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        In that CBI title game the Beavers played so much better. The ball actually moved, guys penetrated into the lane to set up teammates, they played a really good zone defense. Hell, Calvin Haynes even looked set up teammates. Craig should go back and watch that game. Calvin Haynes played maybe a couple minutes in the second half, the team was better when he wasn’t on the floor, much like this team. In that game they were everything the Beavers aren’t now.

  • angry angry says:
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    Let’s stop the revisionist history with Jay John. His talent, which CR inherited, went 0-18 in conference play.

    CR lost his team. They don’t believe in him or his mismatched philosophies, so his message goes in one ear and out the other. It’s not hard to understand why he lost the team if you think about it.

    • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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      Jay John’s team team sucked no doubt, they had a couple players who could okay things at times but overall they were terrible. Craig’s offense helped them a lot but they also did get better and certain players were competent at times.

      Craig’s team hasn’t respected him for a while. They play undisciplined and sometimes play as selfish as can be. He’s lost the team but he’s not going to be fired so think about how bad it will be next season, unless the seniors leaving has a bigger impact on the younger guys’ mentality than we think.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      What’s the revisionist history? Jay John was a terrible coach, but there were at least three solid players in his system. Tarver, Claitt and Schaft.

  • OS_Beaver says:
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    Question for ANGRY or ANYONE…??

    People were saying we will be playing Oregon next week. But we have Stanford on Wednesday at 6pm. Is that because we will FOR SURE be playing Oregon after Stanford or because people thought Oregon would be 8th seed and us 9th? There were just alot of comments in this thread that seemed to point to us playing Oregon next or that we were for sure playing them and I just know we have Stanford for sure on Wednesday. Any clarification would be appreciated. Thanks!! 🙂

    • BeaverBeliever20 says:
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      We thought Oregon was for sure going to be #8 seed. It is highly unlikely Oregon State will play Oregon again. Only way they would play is if, by some miracle, they play in the Pac-10 Title Game. That would be a horrifying game for the conference.

    • angry angry says:
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      We’re playing Stanford. Whoever made the comment we’re playing Oregon probably assumed some outcomes that didn’t happen.

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