| angrybeavs.com A Critical View of Oregon State Athletics |
Game time is 7pm.
I can't believe I'm excited about the CBI, and Washington State for a 4th time, but I am. The boys are playing that well. Really hope they win this one and get a shot at the intriguing opponents on the other side of the bracket.
KBeav says: Was anyone able to catch a live stream of either of the first two CBI games? I watched at a bar, but would rather watch from my computer. I can’t find one anywhere for the Butler-Pitt game that is live now.
Mud&Sticks says: Speaking of driving the the slush and snow……
Here’s a 34 second video which imo, should be mandatory viewing for everyone getting or renewing a driver’s licence AND for high school and college kids at least once a month.
http://rmirror.net/r/videos/comments/q5hu9/car_accident_nsfl/
angry says: I don’t know why the Beavs have such trouble with Washington State. Seems like attitude more than anything…WSU always comes ready to play and ambushes these guys.
mckalk says: CR is screaming that Tom Spitznagel is “killing the game’!!!! You can hear it clearly on the radio.
GoBeavs90 says: This is what happens when the Beavers don’t have Ahmad Starks. He’s a big part of the team. Cougars know Barton isn’t a threat and sucks defensively. They’re giving him open looks and know he won’t shoot it. Giving more minutes to Barton right now is only hurting the team. They miss Starks ability to create off the dribble. Frustrating to watch Barton.
beaverkman says: Nelson needs to just shoot it normal, he looks like he thinks it will get capped or something.
Doug says: Between Nelson and Burton along with no Starks….we look very bad on both ends of the floor. We need to have two point guards and another shooting wing (not Nelson) who can defend. Biggest difference in the two programs is on the defensive end of the floor….Not sure CR will get this part of the game done! We look very good against teams that let us run up and down the floor….but half court attack is suspect and defense beyond 5 seconds (consistently is a problem). There is always hope we will play better in the second half….but right now it looks like another loss to Wazu, ugh!
GoBeavs90 says: Challe needs to put in a lot of work in the summer. He’s such a liability right now. When he comes into games I expect the worst and he doesn’t disappoint.
mckalk says: I would have rather seen Rhys Murphy developed before Barton. He seems to be a more dynamic player, but the Beavs needed another guard I guess.
KBeav says: Cougs have such a little man complex it’s hilarious. I guess they use that to motivate themselves though.
presleydog says: McShane thanks for the hustle. beavs should let him finish this game just for all the times when no one else on the team cared..
mckalk says: It’s interesting how the Cougs rally around missing Motum and the Beavs fall apart without Starks.
angry says: “The Midget” is pretty good.
See, that’s a player I think people misunderstand. He is only an average defender, but he’s a really good offensive player. Net gain.
PS. I think Barton will be pretty good. Dude is playing nervous. Once he settles in he’ll be solid. I’ve seen flashes of it.
mckalk says: I think Starks puts some pressure on the ball as a defender and we kind of take that for granted. I’m a little puzzled by Barton he is not a good defender like CR was hyping early in the year and he completely lost confidence in his shot. I would have loved to see Murphy on occassion as a big guard who could spot up three, but it wasn’t in the plan this year.
angry says: I remember Barton playing great D early in the year. Think he has it in him, but I think he lacks confidence. I’d give him another year before deciding since he showed skills early on and probably needs to adjust to p-12 talent/gain confidence. Maybe.
ean says: Sparks is good at getting the team set up in their offense. He is good at creating something when nothing is there. His shot selection can be questionable.
GoBeavs90 says: Sparks? I think you mean Starks. I don’t usually have too much of an issue with Starks’ shot selection. He doesn’t play scared like a lot of Beavers do. That’s why Craig lets some of his shot selection go. He also can get hot and carry a team and pump the guys up.
angry says: Yep. He’s a good player with flaws. His flaws aren’t as bad as some other players, so I don’t quite understand the hatred or frustration.
ean says: I’ve probably hated on him some in the past… really not sure. He has the ability to put up a 2-13 stat line that is probably what frustrates folks. 40% FG and 37% from 3 is not bad.
mckalk says: Starks takes some crazy shots, but at least he has the balls to take them. He get’s out of position on defense and his height is a liability, but if the Beaver big men could ever figure out how to rotate and help, it wouldn’t be so apparent. The Beavs are a not a good defensive team, will it get better next year?
GoBeavs90 says: It definitely can. When practice begins in October I have a feeling Craig is gonna make defense a HUGE focus. Big focus will be rotation on defense. Their big guys can be extremely lazy. That needs to be fixed. Once their defensive rotations get better, teams will have trouble scoring a lot on the Beavers because of their length and athleticism. If they correct things defensively they will be really good.
GoBeavs90 says: Cunningham really hasn’t come through tonight. Beavers needed him to take over tonight and he hasn’t done it.
mckalk says: Was that an easy layup that Moreland missed? Those five point swings kill you. Seems to be what kept the Beavs from having a NCAA tourney type team.
presleydog says: not to completely bash the beavers but they will need a lot of improvement to make tourney team for next year. Burton needs to drop about 50 pounds and quick making stupid turnovers. They need another capable guard- Nelson and Barton struggled this year.Brandt needs to figure something out. Cunningham for as amazing as he is sometimes needs some more consistency both on offense and defense.
GoBeavs90 says: I agree. The thing about Nelson is he can’t allow himself to lose confidence like he has. When he just shoots he plays well. But far too often he plays scared out there. He has an open three and he just holds the ball and won’t pull the trigger. He was too indecisive this year. He needs to correct that. He has the talent, it’s all between the ears for him.
Barton is another confidence issue. I’ve seen him play with aggressiveness. He did this during the nonconference season and he lost his confidence later on. He needs to not get down on himself next year. He has a decent shot, needs to shoot it when he’s open. For a lot of the guys it is mental. Of course guys need to get better and improve their skills but they also need to get past the mental hurdles. That is what hurt them this season. If the guys can consistently play with confidence on both ends of the floor they should be fine.
Timber! says: glad season is over, won’t have to worry about anymore Jekkyl and Hyde from this team.
slamadam says: shitty way to end a pretty good year. the next step is winning more than seven league games. i feel like this team is in a pretty good place going into next year. hopefully gomis can be another shot blocker and moreland breaks own record next year. LJ Westbrook could be a good player right away as well. adding gomis and westbrook (and hopefully jordan tebutt) should make them a much better defensive team.
GoBeavs90 says: L.J. doesn’t come until the 2013-2014 season. Langston Morris-Walker I think will be the one freshman who has a chance to make an immediate contribution.
mckalk says: You make a good point, I think it was an “ok” year and the fact that they only won seven league games in a supposedly down year, gets swept under the rug. CR’s second year was still the best in league play. He needs to get them to above .500 in league play. Isn’t non-conf going to be a little tougher with that tournament they play in next year?
GoBeavs90 says: Yes, they will play Villanova in game 1 of 2K Sports Classic I believe and either Purdue and Bama afterwards who should both be NCAA Tournament teams. Also, I think OSU is going to be scheduling the Illinois/Northwestern and Georgetown’s of the world for their Chicago and D.C. trips. I think the nonconference will be much tougher and really prepare the guys for conference play. No more nonconference schedules filled with cupcakes left and right.
Kenny Beaver says: Just got home from the game. Roads were no problem whatsoever and there is no excuse for another small crowd for a 3rd round game against a Pac-12 opponent.
Today’s paper said OSU was about $20K in the hole so far and tonight’s game would cost another $75K. They did not cover expenses with this crowd. So it probably cost us about $40K-$60K for the 3 games. CR would say that it is worth it for the extra practices and games. I agree.
But, If we get invited to the CBI next year, I would say pass. Nobody goes to the games!
Jared will definitely be back next year, there is now no question about that. Defense was horrible most of the time. This after 30 games, unbelievable. Without significant commit to improving the defense, next year is NIT at best. That will be good enough for BDC and most fans. Too bad.
Kenny Beaver says: WSU played with total confidence and I don’t think they even cared that their best player was missing. They play harder because they are not as athletic as us. We rely too much on Jared for getting us going. I think that we go into the game thinking that we are pretty good and the only reason we don’t win is the breaks don’t go our way or the refs make a bad call. Actually we wait for the things to fall our way and WSU makes an effort to make things go their way. Our defense has the ability to smother a team like WSU and we don’t use it enough.
mckalk says: It was like the rest of the Cougs thought hey more shots for us with Motum out. On the radio, it sounded like Barton was really exposed as not being D1 ready for a more prominent role.
GoBeavs90 says: Saw a good portion of the game, snow caused issues but from what I saw Barton was not ready. Was getting blown by and wasn’t ready to run the team yet. He’ll improve next season but he’s lost confidence. Unfortunately, Craig had to play him a lot of minutes with no Ahmad. When I heard Ahmad was sick and couldn’t play I knew it would be a loss. Barton was not close to being ready and Roberto looked lost.
helmsley says: I don’t understand what’s happened to Berto. Is he not as good as he was predicted to be? I could swear there was once a comment by CR when Roberto was able to practice with the team but not yet eligible to play; it was suggested that Roberto was so good he would probably leave b4 the end of his 4 years. Have his abilities been thwarted by CR’s system? I honestly don’t get it.
silverstream055 says: I believe he is not as good as he was predicted to be. Roberto can shoot the ball very well when he’s hot. But his shooting touch comes and goes. The rest of his game is average at best. Put simply, he was overhyped.
GoBeavs90 says: His shooting only comes and goes when his confidence is up an down. When he’s confident he’s a really good shooter. He could be about a 44% three point shooter, just needs to learn how to not get down on himself. Also, his passing is above average. He sees the floor well, just gets indecisive and gets in the air and isn’t sure whether to shoot or pass. That’s what leads to the jump passes and turnovers. Once he gets more decisive people will see the player he really is. He needs to be more sure of himself.
Kenny Beaver says: It wasn’t just Barton, Collier and Brandt also did not play up to their potential. Talk about who goes hot and cold, it is Brandt. At least he did rebound some. Speaking of rebounds, I think Jared maybe had one. Every one of the WSU guards were good at going for rebounds. Goes back to the old adage of who wanted more.
Kenny Beaver says: For Jared to make it in the NBA he going to have to develop stronger desire to excel and win. He seems too passive sometimes and the rest of the team doesn’t pick up the slack.
I guess I am just frustrated to some degree after making 2 trips to Corvallis in 3 days. time for a couple beers and bed.
Hey Jack… You haven’t weighed in recently. Did you lose power at your cabin… err house? That’s one of the downsides of remote rural living.
Suggestion.. go next door. Your old neighbor and frequent inspiration the Unabomber left behind some candles and a generator. JB
PS: Take your time he’s not coming back any time soon.
boycat says: Another great coaching job, this game, the whole season, by the little mohammed wannabe’s brother-in-law. Great hire, BDC!!
Shit balloon personified!
Watch out for those gay socialist fascist terrorists coming to make your daughters have abortions in the welfare line.
Fucking racist b4k4!
I wish I was rural. That would be so nice. This town is so depressing, I’m thinking of moving to Springfield to escape it.
Actually, Crow or Fall Creek look pretty good right now.
There’s nobody in this town with the intelligence of the Unabomber. And I knew Diog Angelakos, who would say to you that the Unabomber should be pitied, not a point of humor… but to each their own.
I think Jared might as well test the draft waters… no real harm in doing so if you don’t hire an agent. His decision will be telling. He could be making money in Europe or the D-league next year but if he thinks he can improve his game he has to come back and try to sneak into that 1st round.
I think he’s only rated as an early second round pick in 2013 right now. Some wun-n-dunners played themselves into the first round this year, and they brought some of their teammates with them. That pushed a lot of early to mid second round prospects off the board for 2012.
Right now, he looks to me like Charles Smith (from UNM) or Harold Miner with much better defensive skills. Actually, his offensive game is a lot like Miner’s… no outside shot, lots of dunks… the knee will give out if he continues to play that way.
I personally think his best shot all season was when he hit that 18′ jumper against UW with about four minutes left. He needs to forget the trey and concentrate on that mid range shot. It’s in his range, and it opens up the whole lane for assists and points.
The three point line has ruined more careers than it ever created.
This really isn’t a study of what we’re talking about. But it is fascinating nonetheless.
I think the closest it comes is in the difference between Deron Williams and Rajon Rondo (down on the page), followed by the article on trey efficiency. Imagine there was no trey line. Where would those players with that high efficiency play?
I’m saying their value has either been decided by that one line, or they use it as an additional tool. Would they be able to play a game such as Rondo’s? The author states that Rondo is one of “those rare players” who has the ability to play this way. Well, I have news for him. That kind of player used to be the norm. The trey gave value to a whole different set of skills, and those skills apparently don’t translate to the author’s intuitive statements in that article and others on the page about players who can hit the mid-range shot. Those who can do it frequently are stars in his opinion. Rondo is rare because of it.
But he points out in another piece that those mid-range shots are low efficiency because it’s the outside range for bigs and too low for perimeter players to score efficiently. To me, that means there is more value for perimeter players outside that mid-range. They patrol the trey line instead of finding catch and shoot spots in the mid which were once considered as easy as a lay-up. His point about perimeter players not scoring there has nothing to do with height. It has everything to do with how they learned to play the game and what value those spots have.
What I’m saying is that kids like Jared have been told for years that they need to develop a longer range. But that’s not true. The only thing they need to do is develop their own games. Jared is quite apt at the mid-range if he practices it. And the benefits of scoring from that range are tenfold for a PG who can do this over one being able to hit the trey. As the greats developed their games in the NBA and lost their athleticism, they developed that outside shot. But they all had the skill to penetrate the mid-range and hit that shot.
Now kids are so in love with the trey that they forget what hoops once was. Scoring and defense are only shadows of what they once were. Now it’s all about dunks and treys and out-muscling your opponent. The addition of the trey line initially increased scoring because players still knew how to play the mid-range. Once the mid-range took on less value though, players were quick to recognize it. The mid-80′s was the last vestiges of that mid-court game in the NBA. And the only reason FG% suffered compared to the decades before was that more players were camping on the trey line… and missing more since that would have been by far the lowest percentage shot on the floor at the time.
From the time of the addition of the trey line to the early 80′s was the period of extreme scoring (about four to six years). Then the trey took hold and drew value away from the mid-range. Mid-range percentages began to drop, trey attempts began to increase, and FG% and scoring slumped for two decades.
Now, I blame the allowance of more physicality in the late 80′s for an additional variable on scoring decreases. Players were allowed to bang on the perimeter like they were in the post for too long. The NBA has tried three or four times to “focus” on the actual rules for defenses and offenses on the perimeter. But those have been jokes for the most part since players and coaches just whine about it for the first week, and that “focus” goes away.
The reason for the increases in scoring over the last decade have been the introduction of the zone defense and a correlating increase in 3pt%. 3pt% is still nothing near what mid-range games were 30 years ago. But they are reaching the point of middle to late decline (early to mid 90′s) when the trey line was moved in for a couple years to combat their failed officiating on the actual physicality of the game. And they are at an all time high other than when the line was moved in.
And don’t forget that the “stars” of the game get to do violations that a once “liberal with rules” international system would never allow. If I have to watch LeBron do a four step 270 spin with the ball above his head, then land on his toes before he releases what is deemed a highlight shot nowadays, I’m going to puke.
Suffice it to say I don’t watch NBA ball anymore.
beaverbeliver says: holy shit! way to many words! how many keyboards did you burn through with that post? Please reply if you managed to read all of that, I would be curious how many people digested all of those paragraphs. I need a nap.
I’ve known you to be somewhat sarcastic before. But I never thought you were a noob.
Why the tack?
presleydog says: Minor was fun to watch- but I remember him being more explosive than JC. Minor had head problems- he liked to touch things to his nose- seriously.
The way I see it is Cunningham is point guard size without any PG skills (he is missing a few hundred assists) and his d needs work and you can’t be shooting guard without a consistent outside shot . That would make him a project and guys like that develop slower in the NBA when you never see the court IMHO. I think he would be dumb to come out and not take advantage of working out with GP. On the flip side if college isn’t fun, well he would probably get drafted, but later than sooner and without a chance to develop the skills he needs to succeed. (flashback) Man college was a lot of fun. I’m going to go shotgun a beer.
I’m not saying Jared is Miner. I’m saying they have similar games right now. The two differences were that Miner had a mid-range game, and he used it a lot. He was a volume scorer. His percentages weren’t awesome outside five feet, bet his gross production was a marvel. And he never had an outside range.
Remember we’re talking about a national POY versus Jared on the college level. But on the next level they bring many of the same skills… with the exceptions that Miner was more confident and, therefore, less efficient (as a percentage) in the mid-range, and Jared plays much better defense than Miner ever did.
And don’t forget the Charles Smith reference. That was meant to be the hybrid comparison. Smith played better defense as well, but not as well as Jared. He also tried to make it to the rim more often than not because his weakness was also his outside game. But he could pass a little better than Miner as well, which Jared is starting to show.
Jared’s NBA career track will fall somewhere in between the two. He’ll pine it for a couple years, then he’ll get a couple years of more intensive time to see if he can break out. And, if he doesn’t, he will be relegated back to the pine for a couple more years. Or, like Miner, he’ll play a promising game then blow out a knee, killing his game altogether.
I agree he needs more development before he moves on in order to have a sustainable career. If he goes now, odds are that he will end up another “what if” player. But if he works on his game and plays one more year on this level he can play a solid, full career.
The difference is where his development needs to increase… in our opinions. I think he needs to use that mid-range game to facilitate a maturing passing game. The trey will come, but working incrementally from the inside out is the best way to make yourself a complete player. If one concentrates on the trey and the dunk, then a defender only has to cover two spots on the floor.
Concentrating on those two spots is akin to holding a hammer by the neck and driving nails. If you practice long enough, you can become a star with that technique. It’s like the old dude who constantly beats you with the trey in noon ball. He’s had a lifetime of practice on that shot. But he has nothing else. Hold the hammer properly and use it correctly. It takes a lot less practice and time to get it right.
CVO beav says: Can’t argue that a balanced player is a stronger asset than a single dimensional one. But would appear at the guard positions the pros at least value the ability to shot the trey.
Whether it’s ruined bb is another discussion, and I gave up watching pro bb many years ago.
The real question jc has to answer is can he get the coaching at OSU to improve his skills or is he better off moving to a different level? Am not that close to the program, but went to the majority of games this year and assess that we have much better players, but our fundamentals need improvement. We didn’t seem to improve much as the year went on so I’m not sure of the value added of our coaching staff.
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