15.Aug.2015 Breakdown of Scrimmage

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From what I saw:

Nick Mitchell looked very bad, but part of that was the supporting cast. He was throwing to #15 (Tanner Sanders?) several times, and one was a drop, and the other an interception by Shawn Wilson on a double coverage, who made a nice ball-hawking play. Mitchell later throws into double coverage again, this time incomplete. Even if you want to blame the cast, and there is truth to that, Mitchell still has the funky delivery where he jump throws, he has a weak arm, made poor decisions, and on run plays, he didn’t look fully committed to selling the fake.

Tanner Sanders looked really bad, too. He does not look like a D1 tight end at this point.

A guy who stood out to me: Darrell Garrettson. He was only 3-6, I believe, but he also threw a 20 yard pass that Brent Vanderveen dropped. The pass was slightly short and BV had to go to the ground for it, so it could have been on Garrettson.  This play was especially troubling because #49 was covering BV, and that turns out to be a LB named David Henry. He is listed at 6’0, but he looks more like 5’2 and chubby/maladroit. Henry looks awful; I’m not sure if he’s a walk-on or what. But Garrettson had moxie and poise. He was very good at selling the run and much quicker with the decision and fake compared to the other QBs. He needs to work on accuracy, though. This seems like his weakness. Garrettson was out there with Sanders and Shane Wallen, so not exacty a lot of weapons. He hit BV for a touchdown. BV looked good at TE, but he needs to add about 15lbs, imo, to be effective as a blocker.

Seth Collins — mostly hands off in the footage. There’s a lot of standing around. For all the talk of getting plays in quickly, I didn’t see that in this footage. In general, a lot of confusion when he is in there. At one point, Ryan Nall says to hold up. They run the play anyway, and Nall gets stuffed. In the red zone drill, Collins throws a pass from the 5 yard line that the awful David Henry tips, and X. Crawford intercepts it. If Seth is getting defended by David Henry and Crawford, that doesn’t bode well for him vs legit defenses. Collins looks best on run plays. He’s got a good ball fake and follows through with the run well even when handing off to the back.

Marcus McMaryion — During that same red zone drill, MM hits Drew Kell for a touchdown. It’s a short pass, and Kell breaks a tackle before rumbling into the end zone. There is not much MM footage on the tape, but the few plays show he’s composed, takes what the D gives, has  good ball fake, and looked poised.

Ryan Nall — a huge disappointment in this footage. He’s running slow and hesitant, and on one play when Collins drops back to pass, he doesn’t even block. The D was swarming him. He should be better than this.

The defense looked pretty good considering there were a lot of scrubs out there. The offense did not look like Pac-12 football, but I didn’t recognize half the guys on the field, so it could be the byproduct of that. Overall, I was not impressed, and based on this footage, they have a long way to go, and 5 wins is optimistic. Now, don’t get too down, because this was only 14 minutes of film and half the starters appear to be out. Hopefully I can get some of the later scrimmages once the starters get more time and compare.

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  • angry angry says:
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    Some more notes I received (not based on what I saw; I can’t verify):

    Collins actually had a hot streak after a slow start and wound up making a few nice passes. Collins hit BR from 12 yards out and later hit Ortiz on a 2 yard pass that required patience to develop.

    McMaryion hit Jaylynn Bailey on a wheel route out of the backfield for a 21-yard touchdown and also threw a 35 yard bomb to Datrin Guyton.

    Chad Kauha’aha’a was upset with the defensive line being slow to sub.

    Bright Ogwoegbu is a highly intelligent player who was making plays all over.

    Dwayne Williams is out of the sling and suited up, but didn’t play.

    Jay Irvine had his first INT. He could be a good one.

    • angry angry says:
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      Ogwoegbu and Irvine are guys I am high on, so this was good to hear. I am also high on Guyton, so nice to see hear he hauled in a deep ball. Next week I’ll make a list of who I think are the impact players. These 3 will be on it, though Irvine might redshirt…

    • RanYakumo RanYakumo says:
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      I can definitely confirm the third one. Dude was cussing out the linemen because they had no idea they were supposed to be subbed in.

    • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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      I wasn’t able to closely watch the scrimmage since i was there with wife and kids. I did catch the moment coach Chad got mad at his d-line for not subbing properly. He screamed “Get the f@#k in their!!” at 3 of his guys who were slow to sub in. Reser was pretty quiet, so he could be heard really clearly since he was the loudest voice out there. I think he followed it up with something like “D line, what the f@#k are you doing?!!”

      Not many people on hand. Muuuchhh smaller crowd than the spring game. It was perfect football weather too.

      None of the qb’s started off well. I want to say collins went 3 and out, then MM came in and his first play was a fumbled exchange that was run back for a td. The qb’s all eventually got their nerves under control later, but i can’t say i really saw anything from mitchell to me think he is in the conversation any longer. Sailed a few passes out of bounds that could have been sideline out catches. Didnt possess much in the way of a run game either. Just not a good day for him, which could have partially been due to playing with the 3rd stringers. (The 3rd stringers weren’t even that high on the depth chart, since many of the starters either sat out or were very limited today)

      I’ve seen people talk that Collins has that special “it” factor in the ground game. I didnt see it. He benefitted from not having a defense that could touch him. I saw a few designed run plays up the middle, which would have gotten him de-cleated if this were a live game. He’s the fastest runner of the 3, but it’s not the safe play if he isnt willing to slide to avoid contact.

      Through much of the scrimmage, I was starting to think Collins was the guy, only because he seemed to sustain drives longer, but the last few red zone drills changed my mind. Collins took a shot at the end zone into triple coverage, resulting i a tip drill interception (angry mentioned the play above)
      When MM was up, he played it safe. Shook off a false start and hit a TE in the flat for the eventual score (also thanks to poor tackling ) What he showed me was he didnt take risks when the game was on the line and just made the easy, smart play. Probably shouldnt have been a td, but it was much better than a turnover.
      Wish I had seen more of MM’s ground game today, but i saw enough in the spring game from him to feel confident in his running ability. He isn’t slow, and he was successful running to the outside in his limited spring game reps.

      Was surprised to see as much Garretson as I did today. He looked the part of a vet, and makes me wish he didnt have to sit. There will be growing pains this year.

      Also, wanted to say, I got to meet Storm after the game. He had quite a few people asking for pics, etc, and he was very accomodating. I even saw one of the players(walker i believe) bring his family over to meet Woods.

      I have a few still photos from today if anybody wants them, although not sure if this site can embed images?

      • angry angry says:
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        The spring scrimmage looked much more like football than this. This looked more like drills and in-game scenarios (e.g. red zone). That could be another reason it looked bad. Plus most vets sat this out.

  • RanYakumo RanYakumo says:
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    Good write-up.

    Meanwhile, OSU Athletics’s Facebook page just published this:

    https://www.facebook.com/OregonStateBeavers/photos/a.10151756849093127.1073741827.25495618126/10153221093838127/?type=1&theater

    Seems like they would’ve used Collins if he were the clear quarterback choice.

  • New Era OSU says:
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    Warming on MM as he seems to have his head in a good place but I trust my own eyes. For Weber State I am starting to think both will get considerable playing time and probably both play before the 4th quarter. GA wants to see how these guys react against the best of a Weber St to make the best decisions moving into the bulk of the season. That is a game we can afford to learn a little in and still win with some comfort. We may find that spelling these guys some and some fluidity to subbing them in could fit strategically.

    McGiven did quite a bit of this at USU last year. Get Collins out there in some 3rd and short situations where the run threat helps. Have MM out at times after Collins needs a breath but we still need the passes on target. Since we aren’t getting much looks into practice at least it makes it harder for other teams to guess what is coming. Against Weber St though I’ll take a few drives from each during the first few quarters to better see the stengths and savvy of each.

  • Beav in TX says:
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    The O put up some footage. From what I saw, Collins seems to have the quickest release. MM’s is okay, but Mitchell looks like Sean Mannion.

  • Mb says:
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    Perhaps the humility resolution did not stick. The biting critique of individuals was/is a bit over the top self flatulence. Still, the video made one question if this was really D1 football at its finest.

    • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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      Define self flatulence. I’ve never heard that term before

      • Jack says:
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        Heard of self flagellants… but not self flatulence

      • Jack says:
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        Am told definition of self flatulence is “he who dealt it smellt it.”

        • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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          Or when you pull your own finger.

          • Jack says:
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            This response deserves some cred. It’s subtle. It’s funny. It kinda smells funny on the back end… or front end… user’s choice I guess.

        • scotty says:
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          “Whoever smelled it dealt it” is such an obvious ploy by gassy kids to try getting people to ignore their stench. For shame.

          • Jack says:
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            Your verbiage is backward. That would be communal flatulence. You may be confused by the term. The self flatulators call communal flatulence by another term, collectivist farting.

    • angry angry says:
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      Is this some kind of “everyone gets an A” sentiment?

      • Jack says:
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        I’ve been looking at this post for several days and still don’t know where it’s aimed. I’m now a little afraid to ask.

  • bendORbeav says:
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    Thanks everyone, great to read first hand observations for us here in central Oregon.

  • progressivebeav progressivebeav says:
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    OT

    Conforto hit his 2nd home run last night: http://m.mets.mlb.com/nym/video/topic/19005548/v372905283/pitnym-conforto-ties-game-with-tworun-shot/?query=Conforto

  • Jack says:
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    So… wow.

    Who knew practice was so boring?

    About all we can look for is that they improve from week to week… and don’t lose to a FBS team.

  • GoBeavs92 says:
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    Where is this 13 minutes of footage you’re talking about? Thanks

    Go Beavs!

    • angry angry says:
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      I wrote about it above…not going to post it because GA will kill me.
      No, but he might close all practices if film starts getting out. Periscope was banned yesterday, so he clearly didn’t want it filmed.

  • angry angry says:
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    Cliff didn’t like what he saw, either.

    http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/sports/2015/08/15/kirkpatrick-two-years-away-beavers-look-different/31800111/

  • GoBeavs92 says:
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    It’s funny that this scrimmage had so many key players not playing. What does that really tell us? I hesitate to read too much into this with so many pieces to the puzzle missing. I didn’t go to the scrimmage but the facts of who played and who didn’t is not a good base to make a decision for the starting qb.

    Go Beavs!

    • angry angry says:
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      Yeah we all agree on that. ” Now, don’t get too down, because this was only 14 minutes of film and half the starters appear to be out. ”

      I think every article I read mentions something similar, too.

      I think the problem was GA opening this to the public and acting like it was a real scrimmage. They should have called it a practice and notified everyone the vets would all be sitting. Then expectations would be low. I think most people expected to see higher level football.

      • Jack says:
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        Can we trust that people can see this for themselves? Do football fans really need that crutch?

        Good is good. Bad is bad. Full participation is full participation. Etcetera, etcetera etcetera.

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    Eggers agrres on several points in his practice assessment. Also say GA expects to plau Lucas this year. Good to hear

      • angry angry says:
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        “Collins did some good things,” McGiven said. “He had a slow start with his decision-making, but once he got into the flow of the game, we gave him some read-option on the run and he likes that stuff. There were a couple that will be big, explosive plays for us.

        That last sentence implies they are going to use him to run at least. This would be a good strategy for the Michigan game.

        • GoBeavs92 says:
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          I would agree that using Collins to run sounds like a good strategy but Harbaugh will be all over that like stink on you know what! They’ll load the box and force Collins to throw. Personally, I don’t think it’s fair to truly judge either qb yet because they’re not surrounded with the proper supporting cast (missing too many keys to the offense). It would be nice to see the each get a chance(a few series’ each) with all of the starters at every position. And of course they need to go against true number ones on defense, not guys like David Henry. No offense to him but there are better backers than him on this team!

          Go Beavs!

      • angry angry says:
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        “Mitchell had a poor day throwing, completing none of his six passes with one interception”

        This isn’t accurate. The o-live footage shows him complete a crossing route to BV

        • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav says:
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          There is a problem with the reported stats because they do not include what was deemed “red zone” or “backed up against your own GL”.
          For example, MM was credited with 2 TD’s on the stat sheet; when Gina reported 3 the explanation was as above.

        • UnhappyBeaver says:
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          The SID only recorded stats for the first 60 or so plays. The red zone plays, where Mitchel completed a pass, was not “officially” recorded.

          Yup yup

  • Oregon_State Oregon_State says:
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    Who is this “BR” you speak of receiving catches or being thrown to?

    • angry angry says:
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      haha. good catch. that is supposed to be BV.

      • Jack says:
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        BVR?

      • Oregon_State Oregon_State says:
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        Lol. I thought I missed something, like a new walk on or transfer making plays in fall camp? BV is much easier to type out than Brent Vanderveen over and over again. He’s (BV) really bulked up from what I hear, and Ryan Nall is up to 255 lbs! I think it’s easy to get antsy about the progress of the team. Bottom line is we need to allow the coaching staff time to implement the schematics and fine tune the details. At least, that’s what I feel. It makes things difficult when there is limited access to practice by the fans and media, makes it difficult to evaluate. The cream always rises to the top, and eventually there will be separation with position groups. With doubles anyone can have an off practice/day, that’s why the coaches evaluate film of each practice. Also, this coaching staff understands the steep fall off with the depth of the team. It’s important to get third stringers and beyond repetitions and experience. Plus, I think we’re all a little gun shy because of the past.

        • angry angry says:
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          Actually I meant BG. Beavergopher was out there catching passes.

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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    Off topic – MBB related: RE the tweet saying that Javis Thomas Omersa is receiving “new” interest from Oregon State.

    What does new mean? To me it sounds like they were interested but for some reason (another player perhaps) they backed off and then for some reason (the other player decided to go elsewhere) have gotten interested again.

    • Jack says:
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      He was targeted as a low major prospect a couple years ago. He blew up over the summer and is now a high major PSA. We’ll see where he goes… in two years.

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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    I’m not seeing mention of Mr. Grimble as playing or being injured. Anyone know what’s going on there? Hopefully he’s not been injured or has suffered a set back re his previous injury.

    • angry angry says:
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      He played and reportedly looked good.

    • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav says:
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      Yeah, Gina answered my question on Grimble, said he claims to be 100% and played.

      BTW, Gina said Peko played; Eggers said he did not. An example of how hard it can be to draw conclusions from newspaper reports. Thank goodness for silver, Angry, Bb, et al.

  • angry angry says:
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    WHAT!?

    One who is making a move for plenty of playing time is walk-on David Henry, a 6-foot, 235-pound sophomore from Oakland, Ore.

    “I’ve liked what we’ve seen from David,” Andersen said. “He’s a good athlete, and he has a great motor.”

    This can’t be real. I’m just going to assume GA is trolling the blog.

    • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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      I didnt say he agreed on every point….

    • Jack says:
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      Maybe there’s a difference between what you see and what the results are. You kept noticing him too. So perhaps he is just in the right place and making plays for whatever reason. He could be the Inspector Clouseu of college football. But if it gets the job done….

    • GoBeavs92 says:
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      Referring to GA’s comments on David Henry:
      That’s coach speak for; we value everyone on this team IMO.

      Go Beavs!

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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    I just watched the Oregonlive video and……. FWIW, IMO – – either the DL is really, really good or the veteran OL ………

    Back in the Erickson days there were years where the DL dominated the OL during fall camp but by the time the season started it became evident that the DL was that good and also the OL had improved.

    Hopefully that’s the case this year too cuz if it isn’t it’s going to be a long season and the QBs are going to be getting hammered.

  • Oregon_State Oregon_State says:
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    Does anyone know if the coaching staff has decided if the offense is going to be “up tempo” or “hyper tempo”? It’s very difficult to be up-tempo whenever implementing new schematics and an entirely new offense. It has to be slow in order for the players to understand what they’re doing, especially in the beginning. Man, there are just so many questions right now! Here’s a question few will have the answer for….? What does the orange stripe down the middle of the helmets signify/mean? During spring practice, only the quarterbacks had an orange stripe down the middle of the helmet.

    • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav says:
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      My understanding is some “up tempo”. Simplifying the playbook and not entirely abandoning the huddle have both been reported. Certainly no hyper tempo.
      GA has mentioned the need to “sometimes” go fast.

    • Whiskey soaked napkins Whiskey soaked napkins says:
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      My suggestion is go all the way back to last December and watch GA’s introductory press conference as he specifically answered this question his first day on the job

  • Oregon_State Oregon_State says:
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    Yes I realize what the coaching staff wants to do regarding up-tempo offense. (One must be very specific with their words on this here blog, lol) My question is if they have implemented it to it’s full capacity yet? In other words, are they as fast as they want to be, will this offense ever be as hyper speed like the *ucks? And, who can answer the Orange stripe on the helmets question, that’s what I really want to know.

    • GoBeavs92 says:
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      Don’t forget that many of the practices have been closed to the public so there is a lot of stuff that we haven’t seen: personnel packages, tempos, plays, etc!

      That actually makes me think about even lending less credence to the “scrimmage” on Saturday. They’re going to be vanilla on calls and alignments otherwise what’s the point in having closed practices. I’m starting to get the feeling that the staff (smartly) wants this Beaver team to look kinda rusty/ not as good as it will come game 1.

      Go Beavs!

      • helmsley says:
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        With all the clamor for open practices, I was surprised more people didn’t show up for the scrimmage. I agree with GoBeavs92 perception (although my opinion comes from being paranoid, suspicious, and wary) that this scrimmage was part shenanigan – a little like using a dress rehearsal for auditions and stand-ins.

  • some guy says:
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    https://soundcloud.com/brian-rathbone/baro-sports-podcast-2

    • some guy says:
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      ^^ Another podcast from Rathbone at the Daily Barometer

      • GoBeavs92 says:
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        Thanks for the link!

        Go Beavs!

      • Jack says:
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        Wait… is he with the DB? Or is he behind a pay wall? Or is he both? Isn’t that a conflict of interest if the last is true?

        • scotty says:
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          I didn’t see a paywall

          • Jack says:
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            Good. Then I’m just confused. I thought there was someone using access and tech granted by the school in order to make money. Double dipping ain’t cool.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    Ute fans still gripping. Boy would a victory on Halloween really stick it to them

    @UtahUtesSteve 1h1 hour ago Sandy, UT
    It seems like everything Gary Anderson is doing at Oregon St. is a big, long audition for the Utah job when it becomes available.

    • goBeavers goBeavers says:
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      To be fair I won’t be the least bit surprised if GA suddenly leaves someday when we totally don’t expect it.

      • Bill says:
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        That’s why he has a huge buyout in his contract. If he leaves, OSU gets paid. Wisconsin got paid by OSU for Andersen leaving.

      • Jack says:
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        You mean like the last guy did… twice?

        • goBeavers goBeavers says:
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          Yup, ultimately (cliche alert) it’s a business decision. Maybe GA thought OSU was a better fit for him than Wisconsin. There’s nothing that says that there isn’t an even better fit out there for him as well. Especially since it was apparently the word of god that sent him here. What if god suddenly tells him to leave? The fact that he came here because of that doesn’t bother anyone at all? It’s not like he came here for a rational reason in the first place…

          • Bill says:
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            Fun Fact – God only tells people to move west. So his next stop is to coach football in Hawaii.

          • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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            “God told me to move to Shreveport” said no one ever.

          • Jack says:
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            Have you seen everything due east of Shreveport?

          • Jack says:
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            Was it some imaginary construct that told him? He was vague about who it was that told him this is where he needs to be. It could have been someone real in his past or present. It could have been his wife. Would that be equally irrational? If his wife tells him he needs to leave, would it be a bad thing for him to listen to her and do so?

            It’s easy to translate his vague statements in an irrational way if you hear it from an irrational place. Irrational people fill in the blanks with their own imaginary friends when information doesn’t explicitly do so for them. Hell, this very conversation is riddled with such inaccuracies. Who are we talking about when we use the generic term god? It certainly isn’t yahweh or elohim, who told his adherents his name and that they would be shunned from his vague “reward” if they even alter his (always a he) word? Lost in translation doesn’t cut it with him. But most people fill in the blanks with a falsity because it’s easier for them to do so.

            So I’m not surprised when these blanks are filled in with vast assumptions then drawn out in equally irrational ways instead of looking at the present and living within it. I’m not really worried about that vague and artificial state of worry, one more vague than our present condition.

          • scotty says:
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            Barry Alvarez is God

          • Jack says:
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            That’s his problem.

  • GoBeavs92 says:
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    Listening to that link, they brought up the point of how the receivers were a let down in the scrimmage. I have to say that even with the top two being out there still are some talented guys at WR these guys are not chopped liver (Dockery, Jarmon, Guyton, Hawkins even Drew Kell has made some nice grabs here and there). I have never been a huge Brent Brennan fan and I’m wondering how long he stays on this staff. I haven’t seen a him really get guys (who weren’t already stars or very talented guys) to raise their level of play (overachieve)! That’s where good coaches make impacts. They can get the guys who are a little less talented to play at a higher level through learning the nuances of things like; route running, body control, catching the football with your hands-not your body and stalk blocking. Guys like Cooks and Wheaton were stars that had amazing physical gifts. But I was really disappointed (especially in the first half of the season) in the play of a guy like V Bolden. He rarely ever made the first defender miss and was brought down very easy! He also dropped a few easy balls. Villamin was just a matter of time but I have seen him even take a step backwards from what I have seen in the Spring of this season. Good coaches always coach their players up. They don’t get worse! It will be interesting to watch.

    Go Beavs!

    • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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      I think the regression has more to do with who is delivering the ball. Mannion wasn’t mobile, but he could get the ball to receivers. The current group isn’t close to that level of passer (nor should we expect them to be, as freshman)

      • GoBeavs92 says:
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        Beavblazer you make a good point but this new Beaver offense does not take 30 yard throws downfield to get the ball into the hands of your play makers either (the way Riley liked to do it). 1 and 3 step throws, some of which are caught behind the LOS will probably make up most of the throws/catches that we see (if Spring and what we have seen so far in Fall is any indicator). This offense is predicated on just that! Get the ball out to your receivers quickly and let them get YAC (yards after catch). But I also have to say that having been a receivers coach myself, there are some things that I have seen the Beaver receivers do that I would not let fly with my HS players. For instance on a high or deep ball that is hanging you don’t continue to run up field and let the defender get between you and the ball. A well coached receiver will break his feet down, come back to the ball and attack the ball at it’s highest point (rebound the football is what I used to tell my guys). False steps. A false step is anything from picking up your front foot out of your stance as a receiver to doing anything that takes extra time before you get out of your break (even dipping your body before taking your first step). I could go into some real minutia here but I’ll refrain. It’s not that the receivers are terrible or that there is not more than one way to do things but there are some little things that get overlooked IMO with the WRs. The QBs cannot be blamed for all of this!

        Go Beavs!

        • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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          bubble screen. huge staple of the spread offense. get used to seeing it

    • That Other Guy says:
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      But did the receivers outside of Guyton and Kell’s touchdown do anything that got you excited? The didn’t have a good day, and being one of the deeper and better groups on the team you would expect a little more out of them.

      And please share what you have seen from Villiman this spring, we all want to know.

      • GoBeavs92 says:
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        @That Other Guy
        Are you asking me about Villamin?

        Go Beavs!

        • That Other Guy says:
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          Don’t bring that weak stuff in here.

          • GoBeavs92 says:
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            What are you talking about “weak stuff”? Are you telling me that in the Spring, when a receiver that is no longer here (RM) took JV’s spot, that JV was getting better from how he finished the ’14 season? Wow!

            Go Beavs!

          • That Other Guy says:
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            Well he has dropped 20 pounds from last year, in “the best shape of my life” and is only a week into practice which he has been held out at least three of the days.

            And in case you forgot (you can look back at any of your comments regarding Seth Collins) that the team has only been practicing a week and have only gone live a few times, oh and there is plenty of weeks left.

            So why should you write of Villamin as someone who took “a step backwards from what I have seen in the Spring of this season”? Which also brings up the question of what have you seen from Villamin during fall camp for you to reach that conclusion? That’s what everyone wants to know.

          • GoBeavs92 says:
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            @Other Guy

            See response below to “Unhappy Beaver”.

            Go Beavs!

  • UnhappyBeaver says:
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    You’ve seen Villamin take a step back from the Spring? So are you getting access to the watch practices cause he didn’t play in the scrimmage? Sounds like you’re just making stuff up.

    Yup yup

    • GoBeavs92 says:
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      @Unhappy Beaver

      That was bad phrasing on my part. I meant that Villamin, during the Spring practices and the Spring Game, took a step back from how he finished the ’14 season.

      Go Beavs!

      • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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        no, it was an ASSumption. Doucheburger seriously needs to go back home to blitz

  • GoBeavs92 says:
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    First off, I want to put this out there:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO463zgirog

    Go Beavs!

    • GoBeavs92 says:
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      Ok. Watching this footage (although it’s obviously edited more as a highlight tape than game film) I have seen a couple of things that standout. I had not seen the interceptions or the TD throws until I saw this video. I want to clarify this before I say it because some might not get where I’m coming from with this. As a coach, a common thing when evaluating is not to just look at results and deem them good or bad based on the result (a reception, a TD pass, and interception, etc, etc). There are times where you have a good result (let’s say a deep TD pass) but some of the things leading up to that result were done poorly(the read, under thrown). So the McMaryion TD pass to Guyton (the ball was under thrown) and the near defender tips the ball and it ends up in Guyton’s hands (good result but very easily could have gone the another way- intercepted, deflected, incompletion, etc.). The coaching point might be; throwing earlier, perhaps he (McMaryion) may have even missed a wide open receiver early in his progression, etc (again highlight tapes are not great for eval because you can’t see the whole field). But McMaryion got away with one there.
      Then you look at both of Collins’ picks. The first one (the deep ball) is majorly under thrown and the WR Kell was out in front and it’s a TD with about 10 more feet on the throw. What does that say? Right read, poor throw (physical mistake). The second one was a bad read and throw. I couldn’t tell what the route was but Collins is throwing outside (so was some type of out route) and the flat defender D Henry did a good job of angle running and jumping to tip the ball and at that point Crawford makes a good grab, keeping his feet (or foot) in intercepting the tipped ball. But, I would also say that Henry did make a good play on the tip but if that’s in a PAC 12 game, that ball is more than likely picked by that flat defender and headed the other way!

      I’m not going to take anything away from MM but his deep ball to Guyton was a poor throw as was SC’s deep ball, difference was, SC’s got picked. Now, MM in the other video where Paul Lucas makes that catch and rumbles for about 40 yds and almost scores…. then the fight ensue…. earlier in that video, MM throws a ball over the middle, the defender tips it and it lands in the hands of the TE (another lucky break as far as the result) but that ball probably should not have been thrown when it was. The point here is that you cannot rely strictly on statistics for validity of how well a player is doing. This next week is going to be huge for both of these young QBs. I still think it’s a live competition and it may go into the first game with them splitting reps/series’. May the best Freshman win!

      Go Beavs!

      • Jack says:
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        Why do you keep exclaiming your name at the end of each of your comments?

      • GoBeavs92 says:
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        The more I see of WR Drew Kell, the more I like. He’s made some nice catches, he’s gotten a step on a few DBs and he runs through contact after the catch. Could be a contributor this?!

        Go Beavs!

  • Oregon_State Oregon_State says:
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    What does the orange stripe down the middle of the helmets signify/mean? Only a few players have it.

    • That Other Guy says:
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      I know the reason the quarterbacks have them is so that when they watch film they can get an idea of what the quarterbacks are doing with their eyes.

    • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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      Under construction.

  • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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    It is amazing how delusional people can be. From a Husker site.

    Quote Originally Posted by N2FL View Post
    Nebraska does have the 3rd best roster in the conference in regards to overall talent, JMPO
    And a case could be made for Nebraska having the 2nd best talent in the league. Riley must think he died and went to heaven. If he coaches them up, he has a shot at National Coach of the Year. Find a way to beat Ohio State, and we’re in the playoff! He couldn’t possibly imagine being in this situation a year ago.

    Go Big Mike, and Go Big Red!

    • orangejulius orangejulius says:
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      :::Snort:::

      That made me laugh, thanks.

    • GoBeavs92 says:
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      “Coaches them up”?! Ha! You mean the way that the Beaver’s group of seniors from last season (that played for all four years) were coached up? That whole group were better football players as freshmen! That’s flat out a sign of bad coaching, period! Good luck with that Nebraska, you’re gonna need it.

      Go Beavs!

      • Jack says:
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        I have to agree with you there… excepting the CBs and WRs. The CBs got quite a bit better under Perry. And the WRs have been excellent when age and experience are factored… even comparatively.

        • GoBeavs92 says:
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          I feel the WRs have been one of the worst as a group! With the exception of the naturally talented, Wheaton and Cooks, a lot of the other guys had underachieved like; O Gwachum, M Hatfield (got a shot in the NFL and wasn’t even a factor here!), M Gilmore (when is this guy even gonna be good enough to play?)…. and then you look at last season. Bolden, for as fast and quick as he is advertised to be, he didn’t create a whole lot of separation and he seemed to always be brought down by the first defender. Villamin took half the season but then his natural talent kicked in late in the season. Look at a guy like R Mullaney, super soft, would make a catch or two and then vanish for the rest of the game and one of the guys I thought should have played more was Rhamel Dockery! RD came in and made two of the biggest catches of the year (49 yards each) and I think he had like 5 catches on the year???? The use of the receivers paired with the back-ups not really producing has been a problem in my eyes.

          Even GA had mentioned how Bolden and Villamin dropped too many easy balls last season while he was watching their film!

          And the CBs, Nelson who was a JUCO was already good. And of course J Poyer was a natural stud. But last season L Scott suffered and a lot of that was all of the man coverage (as he even has said in several interviews now). R Reynolds was good and S Martin had his moments but if you notice, those guys only played as starters for like a year or two then they’d graduate. Many of them didn’t play four years straight (with a couple exceptions). I think he will fare much better this season playing more zone.

          But Jesus, the OL, LBs, QB, RBs and the Safeties! My god that was some of the worst Safety play I have ever seen! Ever!

          Thank god for the change in staffs!

          Go Beavs!

          • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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            RD came in and made two of the biggest catches of the year

            Dockery had a concussion in fall camp which slowed his start to the season. Then he injured his hip on the first one of those 49 yard highlight catches, which limited him after that. I agree he should have played more, but there were reasons besides the depth chart that limited him last year. Hoping for bigger things from him this year.

          • Jack says:
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            You feel wrongly. And I don’t know what you think you have for support of your argument.

            The WRs are excellent. The WR commits are excellent. Penn is a HUGE loss for UW, and they have ranted about it. Bradford is immensely underrated. And that Fergie guy… he’s just slow.

            Shall we run over the numbers put up by Wheaton and Cooks in their first two years? Do we need to say that what you feel is contrived of some coachspeak which was just put in place to inspire work?

          • GoBeavs92 says:
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            To each their own! My support for my opinion is that I watch the games and understand the difference between the receivers that have natural talent (speed, quickness, great route runners, great mits and being a good stalk blocker and those who are over or underachievers.

            Well if the receivers were “excellent” last season, they would have gotten open more and made more plays after the catch. Guess what, that didn’t happen! How come Malik Gilmore at 6’3 220 lbs. and is a pretty athletic guy but he hasn’t played hardly at all! What happened to Obum? The guy had freakish size and was a high jump champion! Micah Hatfield played for the Chargers in the NFL and even it was for a minute, it was longer than he played/produced for us! Richard Mullaney was inconsistent, slow and soft. How about Jordan Bishop? World class high Jumper, 6’3″ and what did he do???Not much! There’s some proof but apparently you like many others from forums don’t actually read the post, you take what you want, leave the rest and then pick at it. Examples:

            1) I never said one thing about the receiver recruits that aren’t here or about the recruits that just came in this season. In fact I repeated most of who I was talking about (above).

            2) I actually mentioned Wheaton and Cooks in the first sentence but whateva!

            Read the post all the way through before you start questioning champ ;).

            Go Beavs!

          • Jack says:
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            Slow your roll genius. Let’s see if we can address each of these.

            Malik Gilmore – This is where you start? He’s somewhat serviceable. I’ve not been sold on the kid from HS tape to actual production on this level. But you can start there if you want.

            Obum – Before Brennan and beyond his control. If you go back six years on this blog, you will see the whole discussion about Boom…. about how I seriously thought the kid was destined to be a DE on this level… and the coaches must be playing with us about putting him at WR. After a year, angry posited the idea he would be better as a TE. I dismissed this out of hand and stuck with my original idea. Boom is a natural DE. Now you’ve brought up a marginal D1 player and a DE. Next?

            Micah Hatfield – Umm… I would say you’re off the rails… but we’re nowhere near the tracks here. Your third installment was hurt infinitely on this level. That wasn’t his fault. He very well might have been a good player had he been healthy for even one year. He was not.

            Richard Mullaney – He is something of a disappointment for me. But he was hurt last year. He produced very well in his soph year, and I expected more last year. It didn’t happen. But my disappointment isn’t in him. It’s in what we got out of him. I suspect he has the talent we always thought he had and needs only a healthy season to prove it. Too bad that season wasn’t last year.

            Are we ever going to get to someone on our two-deeps?

            Jordan Bishop – Loved the kid… before Brennan… was not a world class high jumper… was an AA… also had injuries… concussions?

            Are we ever going to get to someone on our two-deeps?

            So… you want me to acknowledge your other blather? The DBs were only good because they were good before they were good? I’m talking about their play on the field. We’ve had many NFL caliber athletes come through and move on to… umm… the NFL. Some were so good they left soon after Riley came to town. And then we had several years of really poor CB play in terms of looking for the ball in flight. There were many great players who just looked fucking stupid as CBs because of this. Then Perry comes along, and we stop talking about that specific phenomenon that was a running joke for us and a gold mine for any half-wit of an opposing coach.

            You need to read what you write champ. You mentioned Wheaton and Cooks in the second sentence, not the first. Whateva!

            So… throw away the great WRs… mention all but the WRs who will play… spend many words on a blog defending a sand castle built well below the tide line… at low tide.

            I don’t even get to argue that the WRs who will play had comparable numbers to the greats in their younger years. That’s not even fair.

            Life ain’t fair.

            And stop with the “go beavs” sign-off. Anyone who needs a sign-off is hiding something. Go Beavs is a given if you find yourself posting here… or it’s your fantasy.

          • GoBeavs92 says:
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            All I hear from you is excuses. And by the way, I sign off “Go Beavs!” cuz I mean it!

            So your reasoning for Malik Gilmore not playing or becoming a decent receiver for us over 4 years is that you didn’t like his HS tape. Jesus! Good coaches make guys better, period! MG is not “serviceable”, if he was he would play and he may have like 10 snaps his whole career (4 years). Good case there though (sarcasm).

            Obum played under Brennan and was a Freshman the same year Brennan started. And for you to say that Obum was a “natural” DE? Hindsight is 20/20 isn’t it! That wouldn’t matter anyways. Coaches don’t make excuses with the talent they’re handed (or in this case recruited). Coach ’em up!

            Micah Hatfield was not injured his whole time here. He played in 27 games (including all 12 as a senior) and had 20 receptions his whole career. Boy, Brennan really got the most out of him didn’t he!? Yeah, I’m the one losing credibility here, right!

            J Bishop was a senior in 2011 (Brennan’s first season). Yes he had injuries but still played in 9 games! 31 catches- 1 TD as a JR. Retired as a SR!

            You want a look at two deeps, look at the 2012 season and tell me where bulk of the receiving production came from besides Wheaton and Cooks (PS-they’re not WRs):

            http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/oregon-state/2012.html

            Why do you think B Cooks had 128 receptions in 2013? Because nobody else was effective! And that’s sad considering most of the other receivers are lining up on the other side of arguably the best WR to ever play here! And don’t say that Cooks was open all the time because he was not! And that’s one of the many reasons we lost 6 games that season. One trick ponies on offense! As oppose to two the previous year!

            Rhamel Dockery was injured but he played in 11 games last year. He had 7 receptions! 2 of them were the biggest catches of the season (49 yds)! I have had high hopes for him but unfortunately he obviously is not living up to the player he can be so far (through Spring and currently). Will he?

            DBs (means Safeties as well as CBs) If you are telling me that the Safeties were good the last few years, I don’t know what to say……..Ryan Murphy is the classic example of how not to play Safety and a great example of guys getting worse as they got older! Ty was better than RM but that’s not saying too much there!
            When saying what you miss quoted (as usual) about “The DBs were only good because they were good before they were good?”- your words, not mine!
            Not what I said, I mentioned that J Poyer and S Nelson were good players coming in! We had some CBs here but they mostly (with exception to Poyer) played 1 or two years as starters and then moved on. My original post was talking about the core guys (freshmen) in 2011 that played all four years and a majority of them got worse. I wasn’t saying there weren’t some good players in the secondary but besides Murphy, who could be considered one of the four year players (and he may have become he worst after those four years) all the other guys were role players that stepped up for 1 or 2 years eventually as starters!

            You have to understand that coaches need to have everyone prepared to step up and fill in at this level of football! Brennan has not developed one player that was very low skilled coming in and helped make them into a good receiver! He’s just gotten out of the way of the great ones and let them do their thing. That’s not coaching my friend!

            Go Beavs!

          • Jack says:
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            Excuses? You just listed a bunch of b players (at best), ignored the a players and dismissed a couple greats out of hand. And I’m the one making excuses? I bleed orange and black, but I don’t have to reassure myself on every post.

            Gilmore just is who he is. He’s serviceable in terms of depth on a d1 roster. He is the right size and speed, but he was a project coming in. Getting him to serviceable is great coaching. 20/20 hindsight on Boom? I think you need to read what I said, not what you think I said. I won’t argue the one-trick pony aspect. But I will say Mullaney played well, as did others. You might have to admit, though, that was Langsdorf’s choice. Blaming one position group for a poor offensive and defensive effort is an immature argument. Obviously Dockery isn’t what? Last year was his first in Riley’s system. This will be his third head coach, and only the second to play him at WR (a catch-all terms, btw… don’t play little semantics games like a troll). I would have loved to get him out of HS. Barring injury, he’ll be good or better. That’s another thing. Injures are not an excuse. They are injuries. A coach would know that. And finally, getting out of the way of great players is not all Brennan did. But it would be good coaching if that’s all he did. As an example, I give you our safeties under Banker. Don’t blame Perry for Banker’s jacked schemes. They were assigned run support because his system sucked. The backers were the same, getting progressively worse year after year. But I don’t blame Bray for that. It’s always been Banker. Bobby D finally saw what the rest of us have known for a long long time.

          • GoBeavs92 says:
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            That’s just it! Why are these guys “B” players? Bad coaching and recruiting. This new offense is going to sub 6-8 receivers possibly a game. So Coach Brennan can’t rely on stud number one and two doin’ all the work. He’s going to have to actually coach some guys up….so far, your boyfriend aint doin’ so hot! My point exactly!

            BW, the only reason Coach B was retained is he was basically one of a few left behind and probably the only one that wanted to stay and GA needed a guy with a prior connection on the staff!

            Go Beavs!

          • GoBeavs92 says:
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            Even a guy like Shane Morales is better than any of the guys I have mentioned! And he’s an actual Pre-Brennan player, unlike half the guys you tried to say were before Brennan on my list. We had good receivers in those days! 5 or so deep! That was coaching. There were no “B” players as you call them at WR in the mid 2000 teams! You’re pathetic!

            Go Beavs!

          • Jack says:
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            To be fair, you did say the one-trick pony was one of many reasons. So there’s that. But that pony was damn good, and getting the ball in his hands was more often than not a good decision. What I am saying is that was all there was… no run game to speak of… well, no dedication to the run game… which cost us two wins in 2012 as well.

            And we have to give some credit to Brennan as a recruiter as well. That’s a major aspect of the job in college. I really really really like Datrin Guyton. That kid is so pretty when he hits his long stride. Villamin is a black hole when balls are in his zone. Bolden has actually surprised me. I know he has speed. I know he is a practice player. But he has become a smart player despite his goofy stride.

            John Wooden once explained what he thought about “getting out of a player’s way”… once… or many times. He said that a player on the college level can be taught one or two good habits, but all the bad habits remain. If he could have done so, he would have corrected Jamaal Wilkes’ FT motion. But it was what it was once he got to college. It was still effective, but it could have been much better. Sometimes taking all the good and letting the bad be what it is… is all you can do. THAT takes some control as a coach… in the form of not being a control freak.

          • Jack says:
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            Yes… bad recruiting. That’s something. Taking someone who was a five year project for a non-P5 team is a recruiting fail. Coaching him up to actually play is some good neat deal stuff.

            You haven’t been here. You don’t understand the tone… one of reality. It’s been this way for years here. You’re not going to change it with flowery or non-flowery stuff.

          • Jack says:
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            Morales would be a good example, except he was a product of his QB. He was a great possession receiver. But do you think he would have got those looks in Mannion’s later years? Sometimes a receiver is only as good as his QB coach allows the QB to be that good. You said Cooks wasn’t always open. True. Morales wasn’t either. But sometimes throwing to space and trusting receivers to get there is a part of the equation.

            That sometimes faltered as years passed. That’s not the receivers’ fault. That’s the QB coach’s fault.

          • Jack says:
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            Wait… Brennan was retained because he’s good and has brought results. That’s the argument. Don’t ever question that. Plus (and a big plus), he remained on the job once it was obvious he didn’t have a job. That “no quit” attitude is huge. His players are good to great and getting better. Never mistake GA’s talk as anything other than calling out those who are good not being great. You are right. Our WRs are not great. But they have a ton of talent. And they will be great. I have zero doubt about that given who they are and who their coach is.

            I do have doubts about their viability on the next level. They will be products of a system that does not lend to goodness in the NFL. That may be a hindrance in recruiting, but it doesn’t seem to bother the Ducks… well… it is starting to take its toll. We, as usual, are late to a party. Our O is known and understood. The only thing we can do is be better. It’s a given that college football is devoid of professional talent. So this play isn’t as bad as others we’ve done. And Belitnekoff awards will draw in some better than expected recruits (Penn, Bradford and Ferguson are spectacular recruits). But what the hell do you want?

    • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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      The Huskers accused Eggers of trolling when he said the Beavs had as much talent as Nebraska.

      • Jack says:
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        So?

        Eggers is probably the only Oregon based sports reporter I trust. He has been Riley-centric. But he has also been honest… which is why he has been given access. Maybe GA has a different definition for all that. But I trust Kerry to be professional when he reports. If you don’t want him to report something, don’t let him know about it.

        That won’t stop him, but it will stop the perception that he’s some agent of some tinfoil conspiracy against your team.

        Do they make go-big-red foil?

        • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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          That was my point to them. Their perception of what’s happening is so screwy. All of Riley’s negatives that were covered in here are surfacing in Lincoln and they are totally rationalized away or turned into a positive. Riley must be some kind of wizard.

          • Jack says:
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            We have a whole faction who believed the same of Riley for years on end. I’d be willing to bet some of them still believe it all and will do so forever, never being proven wrong because he ditched us before the W/L got so bad the numbers would prove otherwise.

            I don’t believe Riley was complacent. I believe he was just in over his head. People have always said he’s “intensely competitive.”

            That’s precisely the notion I got a couple years ago when a TD was run past our D… down the left sideline… our sideline… and Riley and Banker were standing there on the 20 yard line giggling at each other as if there was no game occurring… during and long after the play… intensely… competitive.

          • Jack says:
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            Those are words, btw… just in case you… I don’t know what you would do… just don’t.

          • Jack says:
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            Not meant for you, bend… just expecting extra-blogestrials with topics like this.

  • HopefulAin'tAPlan says:
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    Can anyone provide more details on how Ryan Nall ran with the ball beyond what Angry provided? I haven’t seen the footage, but he impressed coaches last year and has been mentioned by GA this year. There has to be something there to continue to get praise. Any chance that he could be the key to getting us back to more power running?

    I would love to see us implement some power running as a change of pace to the up-tempo spread based on game flow and personnel available. I believe this could really help the inexperienced QBs until their comprehension of the playbook and game flow improve. Sounds like we may have the OL to get this done.

    • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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      FWIW I’d like to see Mr. Nail playing linebacker. When a guy is 6’2″ & 255, linebacker seems to be the best fit and again IMO, the Beavs could use a guy like that in the middle.

      • Jack says:
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        That size is not optimal for a MLB in a 3-4. It would be good as an OLB who can play on the line.

        • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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          Jack: What is the optimal size for a MLB? I thought the outside guys had to have a lot of coverage speed and thus were in the 225 to 240 lb range. Perhaps I’m thinking like that because of all the light weight OLB’ers OSU has had over the years.

          Imo he’s probably too short to be playing TE and doesn’t seem to have what it takes to be a D1 RB so I’m still thinking line backer is his best position to shine whether it be inside or outside.

          Too much talent to be left setting on the bench.

          BWDIK

          • Jack says:
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            You’re confusing a 4-3 with a 3-4 D. In a 3-4 D the inside backers need to be the primary cover guys. The run stopping is handled by the 3 up front.

            A 3-4 is strong up the middle, pushing the run outside. Backers outside need to be the run stoppers. In a 4-3 the middle backer is responsible for the whole of the middle once the tackles move. Obviously, late break downs lend to one of these being devastating when run up the middle. The other has athletic backers roaming the middle, waiting for such breakdowns.

          • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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            Thanks.

          • Jack says:
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            FWIW, that’s why James is a “hybrid” guy. Lawrence Taylor was an OLB in a 3-4 during his career. It was the NFL, so gauging him and his inside backers doesn’t really compute. But it’s relative… in a way.

          • GoBeavs92 says:
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            Uh Jack, I don’t know where you get your info about defenses but it’s not only inconsistent but incorrect!

            A 4-3 has; 4 Down Lineman (2 D Tackles and 2 D Ends) and 3 linebackers one Middle backer and two outside backers (commonly referred to as a “Sam”= Strong Side and “Will”=Weakside- the names can change depending on the scheme). The base DL tech goes (weak to strong-5 tech/1 Tech/ 3 Tech/ 7 or 9 Tech) but this can change around. Too much to explain what DL Tech’s are. This is what the Beavs ran throughout the Riley and Erickson era as a base D. The coverage set up is usually 2 deep safeties (sometimes a Strong Safety or “Rover” type that can come up to play “Sky” coverage. in Cover 3 Sky (where one safety takes the deep middle third, the CBs take the outside deep thirds and one Safety drops into a “Hook”, “Hook/Curl” or “Curl” zone. Pre-snap it still looks like C2 or C4 shell. As far as “Contain” it’s usually DE’s or CBs!

            A 3-4 defense has 3 Defensive Lineman (DL Tech is usually a head up NT or NG on the Center “0” shade, The two Defensive Tackles are on the outsides of the NT and are usually but not always, head up the Offensive Tackles 4 or 4i techs. There are 4 LBs; Two OLBs and Two Inside Backers. Most defenses are based on Gap Control! This means that all of the Defensive lineman and LBs are responsible for a Gap (A, B, C). All defenses want to compress gaps and bounce the ball deep and outside (build a fence at the LOS) but the force/contain player wants to keep the ball carrier from getting to his outside shoulder so he must play run outside in (if he doesn’t make the play, his help pursuing inside out should). Every play on offense has the chance to be a run or a pass so because of that, most defenses use a “read step” technique. you don’t just always sell out and guess run or pass defense as a D coordinator! The “Read Step” gives each player (2-3) steps to read run or pass. LBs usually take two short steps towards their gap, the secondary takes either 2-3 slow steps back or turn and 2-3 shuffle steps (shoulders turned into the field) and the DL is slightly different. the DL usually steps and strikes their near O Lineman (the one they are shaded over) with their hands and they press off with their head up and eyes to the backfield and make a read and a move (pass rush or pursuit). There are also slants and stunts and there are pass rush calls which puts the backer up field (but not too far-heads up-eyes up). This is something that Banker did a horrible job of coaching.

            I could go on for hours here but in Base zone coverage, all your backers have a zone responsibility. You don’t just assign it to your OLB or you Inside backers. And all defenders have pursuit responsibilities (playside /backside) and they are all different and very lengthy to explain. Anyway, the 3-4 needs very big D Linemen (especially the NT) all the LBs should have good size and be ready to defend and defeat blocks from Offensive Lineman as well as be prepared to cover their zones or play man coverage with pressure, etc.. the run stopping is the responsibility of the front 7 (not just DL or LBs and if the ball gets outside CBs if they’re you’re force/contain. But the most important part of defense are the individual position techniques.

            Hope that helps!

            Go Beavs!

          • Jack says:
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            That has to be the dumbest 10 seconds I’ve ever wasted. Wtf man?

            Backers have different responsibilities depending on who the coach is… DUH! You just assigned an odd front to cover all gaps without responsibility behind them. Then you tell me that it’s important that all defenders go and tackle the guy with the ball. Oh… and what is intuitive to most people doesn’t need to explained… word… for… word. You don’t read my dumb rants about watching the hips, reading the midsection and keeping the eyes in your peripherals at all times. I just assume this audience is already smart enough to pick up on that kind of stuff.

            If you’re here to tell us that the front seven are important in a D… then yeah… that’s a neat deal. That never occurred to any of us. Thanks for that lesson. If you’re trying to dispel the notion of flexibility for some positions in one D versus some positions in another D as I have suggested they might be… take it up with the history of football… in modern terms… the last 40 years or so.

            I don’t think the motion offense is the end all in hoops… then describe it in detail in order to prove that I can still type… or something. What’s the deal man?

          • Jack says:
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            If I go to Wikipedia, is this what I’ll find?

            Football is not genius. It’s just a sport. It’s not hard to figure.

            What is hard is out-playing the opposing coach. And that will not happen with A+B=C… no matter how boring you think it isn’t.

          • GoBeavs92 says:
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            You’re telling me “what is hard is out-playing the opposing coach”?!

            Ok first off the coaches aren’t “playing” but if you want to play that way!

            How many real football games have you coached Jack?

            Go Beavs!

          • Jack says:
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            Really? Coaching doesn’t matter now?

            I can break down every Coach K concept over a long period (and posts longer than yours). But I’m obviously not getting paid Coach K dollars since he is able to intuitively adjust those basic concepts to fit specific players in specific positions at specific times in specific games in order to create an advantage for his team. Other coaches can look at what he does on paper/tape/whatever, but they can’t stop him over time because he will outplay you no matter who you are.

            Oh! But he’s not on the floor! He means nothing to his team once they throw that ball out there.

            Give me a friggin’ break.

          • GoBeavs92 says:
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            Jack

            How many real football games have you coached in?

            Go Beavs!

          • Jack says:
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            None on a level that will satisfy your red herring. How many trees have you climbed today?

          • Jack says:
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            Seriously?

            Would your teams have won without you?

            Wtf are you saying?

            You make zero sense. A team with no leader is not a team. Why do you pretend it is so?

          • Jack says:
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            Your response, btw, just negated all of what you said was important… that being that you are a coach who leads young men.

            So… huh?

          • GoBeavs92 says:
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            Jack, this sounds like a 6 year old describing a defense man! That little bit that I told you up there is exactly that, very basic and very little. I could have written pages of material on the ins and outs and different looks, could have talked about the 3-5, on and on. Was my post too vague? Ok, here’s your post describing the responsibilities in 3-4 vs a 4-3. Read your own post and tell me who’s telling people the “Duh” info?! Not only that, your post doesn’t even make sense!

            Jack:
            “Backers outside need to be the run stoppers. In a 4-3 the middle backer is responsible for the whole of the middle once the tackles move. Obviously, late break downs lend to one of these being devastating when run up the middle. The other has athletic backers roaming the middle, waiting for such breakdowns.”

            You:
            “In a 4-3 the middle backer is responsible for the whole middle once the tackles move”.

            Me responding now:
            – WTF does that mean?! Sorry but the MLB “Mike” (unless he is blitzing, in man to man or doing a “hole” drop or dropping to a “hook” zone in zone coverage) has gap responsibility. His alignment is based on where the Stron side DT shades and in a base defense for a 4-3, that is usually a 3 technique (B gap) so the Mike would have the strongside “A” gap responsibility aligned at around 5 yards off the LOS. Again this could change but I’m giving you a basic” base 4-3″ look.

            You:
            “Obviously, late break downs lend to one of these being devastating when run up the middle”

            Me now:
            -What???? Have you ever watched a football game? A run up the middle, whether it be; Lead, Iso, Dive, Inside Zone, even Draw, occur within 2-3 seconds or so at most. Like I said, most DL calls in early or run downs (short yardage) are taught to step and strike to their shaded tech O Lineman, extend their arms and read the play, the Middle Backer does his couple of read steps and plays up the middle he usually fills fast because it’s a pretty straight forward read, meet the RB head on in the whole. there is no time for “late break downs”.

            Jack:
            “The other has athletic backers roaming the middle, waiting for such breakdowns.”

            Me now:
            I don’t even know what this means. When backers read a run up the middle as you described, the fill. The outside Backers (strong side DT is usually in a 3 tech-outside the Guards shoulder, DE is either aligned in 7 shade-rare-usually with no TE or 8 or 9 tech (sometimes wide) “9” means outside shade of the TE) weaksidse (Will) has the weak “B” gap and (Sam) if the DE is in a 9, has the C gap responsibility. Yet when the see run they read through their gaps while taking read steps and then fill staying on the outside shoulder (one backer attacking each shoulder) because the DTs and “Mike” have the ball carrier straight away. This is to keep the ball carrier from bouncing outside (a form of contain).

            I was responding to your incorrect info on defense that you were describing to someone. Wasn’t trying to offend you but you were wrong. And you could have learned something from the post, instead, you try to make it sound like my post was completely obvious and I’m here to tell you, ya it is to me and to others who coach/coached and/ or play or played, but the general fan doesn’t just randomly know about this stuff in this kind of detail. The fact that you’re telling me you understood everything I said in my previous post (considering your first post, the one I was trying to correct for you) then you’re full of shit. Sorry, that’s the truth. And for you to belittle what I’m telling you, trying to teach you, is just a sign of insecurity and ignorance. I coached for quite a few years at the HS level. I’ve been a D coordinator, O coordinator and position coach for several positions. I’m not trying to brag, that’s just all true. The reason I go into detail and explain how something in football works is prove I know what I’m talking about. I’m not full of shit. And by the way, the “dumbest 10 seconds” were the ones you used to explain the responsibilities (vaguely and incorrectly) of a 4-3 defense verses the run. You may be knowledgeable about something, but it’s not football!

            Go Beavs!

          • Jack says:
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            Yes! That’s what I said. What you provided was a basic outline in simplistic terms. That’s not how an actual 3-4 D is run or has been run for decades now. The 5 teq has been used for a long time in that D, but you’re saying it doesn’t exist because your simplex outline doesn’t allow for it.

          • GoBeavs92 says:
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            Ok, so I’m giving the simplistic explanation here now?!

            If that’s so basic (what I said) why didn’t you go into a quarter of the detail?

            Do you know what a 5 technique is?

            Since I’m the simpleton that only coached HS football for 8 years, have been undefeated in the best league in the state of Oregon, I need you, Jack to explain to me?! Teach me Coach Jack!

            Go Beavs!

          • Jack says:
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            Ha! You know me. I thought you were the goomba I thought you were.

            Yes, I know what a 5 is. I also understand coverage concepts and assignments. But those do not change where players line up in the 3-4 in terms of ilb or olb. Keeping it simple, if a 5 brings the ball up the court and plays the 1, he’s not a 5 any more. The 3-4 has been variable in this way for a long time.

          • GoBeavs92 says:
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            Your answer to how many football games that you have coached in:

            “None”

            But you say shit like, “What is hard is out-playing the opposing coach.”

            How the hell would you know?! BTW Coaches don’t play, they coach! You need to zip the ol’ pie hole brotha, you’re way outta your league!

            Go Beavs!

          • Jack says:
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            I answered this lie somewhere else inadvertently. I’m tired of it. It’s a lie. Blah.

          • Jack says:
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            Well… it’s a lie now. It was just a red herring before.

          • Jack says:
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            I apologize for the defamation. angry told me I have a propensity to call a lot of stuff “dumb” when that’s not really what I mean. This is an example. I need to temper some posts and make them more precise.

            Sorry.

        • GoBeavs92 says:
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          There is no “MLB” in a 3-4 defense man. You have 2 Inside Linebackers! Just sayin’!

          Go Beavs!

          • Jack says:
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            You don’t understand comparative concepts. I get that. Stop expressing it in literal terms.

          • GoBeavs92 says:
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            I just stated a fact, Jack!

            Go Beavs!

          • Jack says:
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            Did you? In the context of this conversation, how factual is it?

          • GoBeavs92 says:
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            And by the way, to a football coach who knows what they’re talking about, what I gave was a basic, base concept of a 4-3 and a 3-4 (I stated that) and also mentioned that certain coaches run different techniques but the base I was explaining was head up on the DL. But you didn’t know any of that basic stuff our you wouldn’t have given a 6 year old’s description of the difference between the way a 3-4 and 4-3 play the run! Ha ha!

            You don’t know shit and all you’re doing is deflecting and avoiding questions (kiddie games). I did feel sorry for you but now I know you’re just ignorant!

            Go Beavs!

          • Jack says:
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            I didn’t give a description of run D. I only gave general ideas of what our D will require of certain positions. You can go watch Utah’s D… or just recall it over the past couple years. There areddifferences when certain types fill certain positions, and the successful years are easy to see.

          • Jack says:
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            Did you edit the post I responded to? That’s some weak stuff there. Your word is not your word?

          • Jack says:
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            So let’s just be honest. What you provide as a 3-4 on paper is what a 3-4 actually is. That has changed a whole bunch over the years… not on paper… but in in reality. What we will call a 3-4 D at OSU this coming year will really be a 4-2 nickel with cover 1 on man and cover two on zone. But it will still be an odd front in terms of gap assignment and a 4 backer system in terms of hybrids at the sam and will. And the front 3 won’t have static assignments. They will cover one or two gaps or stunt based on calls from our esteemed D coach… who I happen to like a lot despite what angry calls slow speech syndrome. I understand who he is because I’ve lived in that culture… ohana or nerd, take your pick.

            You said the D line needs to be huge for this to work. In a conventional set, I would agree 100%. I don’t think you’ve been here that long, so I’ll cut you some slack. We’ve been calling for a 3-4 D here for years. And that leached into beat reporters’ questions to Banker a couple years back. He said much the same about size and hem and haw. But we have been watching football for years. We know there are different packages and styles of the 3-4 now. angry likes the Ducks’ bend-don’t-break system. I personally don’t like the 50 front except for show and a couple devastating plays to sock away a game. But we’re talking about a D who just has to stop an opponent 40% of the time… or 20% if FGs are involved.

            I like how Whitt uses his D-line as weapons instead of plugs. They all have great hands and feet and run through gaps instead of just covering them

            That’s where coaching comes into play. And you know this. Sometimes covering the right side of the field properly is the only thing that needs to happen. I know that sounds like kindergarten in terms of actual coaching. But that’s how simple football really is. That’s how simple most sports are. They’re not chess. They are much more variable than that, and, therefore, not nearly as complex. It takes a lot to be a great coach, one who can intuitively make those calls. It takes some luck even if you’re that coach. But it is really just that simple sometimes.

      • Jim says:
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        Yeah, and while I’m sure he’s far more athletic than your average schmuck (i.e. me), how effective is a big slow white guy going to be running the ball, really?

        • angry angry says:
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          He was a great rb in high school. The scrimmage performance was shockingly bad. I still have hope he can do this.

          • Jack says:
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            You saw how much tape? That translates to how many bad games?

        • marcodg marcodg says:
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          I don’t think he’s slow. He was told 2 days prior that he’d be lining up at RB. I think the coaches have done him a disservice with all of this moving him around.

        • WFO WFO says:
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          Ask Toby Gerhart.

  • wannabeav says:
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    NLRB rules that Northwestern football players cannot unionize

    • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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      Thank god. That would have driven a stake through CFB.

      • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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        But they can stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

      • Jack says:
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        Wait… we’re celebrating the NCAA now?

        NCAA bad! NCAA good! Boo stupid NCAA! Yay for the NCAA!

        It’s like we’re manic depressive around here.

        For the record, they just declined to hear the case, citing no jurisdiction based on how narrow this pool of labor compared to the whole actually is. The dismissal does not preclude future action. But I’m not sure they aren’t using circular reasoning to destroy the NCAA anyway. They leave this open to any number of attacks on NLIs themselves as legal documents and the real expectations derived from them by either side. That’s something that no court can dismiss due to any issue regarding scale. They looked hard for an out, but they may have just torn a hole in the NCAA’s argument by doing so.

        • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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          Getting a debt free degree from Northwestern is exploitation? I would have loved some of that exploitation. Nobody forces you to play college sports.

          • Jack says:
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            Agreed. And that breaks it down to an individual level which cannot be dismissed.

            All the SAs are trying to do is guarantee that their education comes first. They argue that quid pro quo is not actually such, even though their individual contracts say as much. They are beholden to football first, education second. And who knows what happens to them if they’re made redundant, obsolete or injured? What was promised them before they signed that contract has some bearing on the contract itself in the form of a verbal contract. A ruling will need to be made that the NLI supersedes all verbal contracts. That would necessitate either the individualization of NLIs at worst. At least, that would necessitate the NCAA allow PSAs and SAs the ability to discuss said contracts with independent counsel.

            The term “Phuck the Fillies” comes to mind.

            Independent counsel has to be allowed to gauge their clients’ best interests before they sign these contracts. That allows agents into the bargaining process. And the NCAA now has to argue against that which they just successfully defended in order to maintain the other side of their argument.

            Money wasn’t the issue for the collective bargaining proposed by Northwestern football players. It could have opened that door had the scope of the NLRB findings found that this was their jurisdiction, and they subsequently found that money was a factor. But that wasn’t what was asked of them. The NCAA could have mitigated the damage had they accepted a bargaining unit with limited scope. Now they have to tell us why an individual (their argument) has no rights under their own jurisdiction when an NLI expires. Remember that those individual contracts are only annual, and it is the leisure enjoyed by member institutions which are in question here.

            The NCAA is acting on behalf of owners now. Owners employ labor for a wage. Whether or not that wage is fair has nothing to do with it anymore. The only question answered with this decision is jurisdiction. That’s how untenable the NCAA’s argument is.

            Note that this decision to dismiss also specifically did not preclude further action. The 800 pound gorilla in the room is the ability of PSAs and SAs who are no longer under contract to form a collective bargaining unit and still be adherent to NCAA “regulations.” That’s the back door I’m talking about. The NLI is inherently at odds with the recruiting process, and kids aren’t stupid enough not to know that, let alone their parents and/or family.

          • Jack says:
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            And if you think none of that matters, then take a look at who the highest paid government employees are in each of the 50 states. They might have something to say about it once they lose the ability to pretend the quid and quo are actually a part of their quid pro quo.

          • angry angry says:
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            Yeah, and they get free food and a ton of girls. Boo hoo.

          • Jack says:
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            Okay… if you want to break it down to an irrational level.

            Just a clue… I stopped being interested in girls who were interested in that when I saw it. Call it a defense mechanism if you will. I call it smart.

            I can’t argue the food thing. I may have had a job which included scraping plates during college.

          • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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            Money for nothing and your chicks for free.
            M. Knopfler

          • Jack says:
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            … and Sting.

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    How is it just coming out now that Tres Tinkle has been recovering from a stress fracture in his foot since June? And it took the new guy at Oregonlive to get the story.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2015/08/tres_tinkle_recovering_from_st.html

    • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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      did nobody else notice the walking boot he had been wearing all Summer?

    • helmsley says:
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      Does he wear Nike shoes, too? Question: Is Oregon State required to wear Nike shoes?

      • Jack says:
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        I don’t know. And yes… in games. There’s not much difference between how crappy shoes are when discussing brands. Flexibility in the sole might be a factor, and Nike is notoriously bad in that respect. They do have a vested interest in the heel wedge that orthopedically destroys bodies. But that’s a them thing.

        The stiff sole employed by Nike in their hoops shoes can easily lead to a quicker foot injury than one employed by non-cutting-edge shoe companies. I’ve experienced it first hand. But marketing will tell you that excessive cushioning and separation of the foot from the ground is something that is good for the body.

        • helmsley says:
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          Would it be possible for a player/trainer to ask for an exception and try out a “non-cutting edge” shoe company. Although why wouldn’t it be a cutting edge shoe company, if it’s better? Football, isn’t Isaac going to need a very special shoe/boot to play in?

        • scotty says:
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          Slip in some Dr Scholls!

          • Jack says:
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            Yes… the solution to wearing bricks on your feet is not to stop wearing the bricks. It’s to add more stuff to the bricks… at the expense of your wallet.

          • scotty says:
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            But if you have to wear the bricks you can at least put a pillow on the bricks

          • Jack says:
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            That’s what I’m saying. Why first buy pretty bricks then spend more for a pillow?

            None of it is necessary anyway. But the hazy field of shoe sales makes many things necessary.

    • Jack says:
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      It’s been known for a while. It’s not a biggie… unless Riley is coming back to take care of his injury.

      He’s been in a cast for a while. I’m surprised nobody has excessively worried about it before now.

    • thatguy says:
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      Yeah, if you have been in Corvallis at all this summer and you’ve seen him he’s been in a boot since he’s been here. It didn’t take a genius to surmise that he probably had a minor foot issue. He’ll be aight.

      • angry angry says:
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        I’ve learned from personal experience that any injury requiring a boot (or crutches) isn’t minor. Usually they take at least several months to recover from fully.

        • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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          Wonder if he’s borrowing Isaac’s boot?

          • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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            Das Boot?

          • Jack says:
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            The only navy movie that’s worth a damn… or that you can watch with anyone who has been in the navy without hearing tons of guffaws.

          • jacksanass says:
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            yea, and its foreign and we all know foreign is always better in liberal think.

          • Jack says:
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            If you think it’s not a good movie, then you just plain don’t know what good is.

            But this is already suspected of you.

          • jacksanass says:
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            It all depends on what your definition of is, is.

          • Jack says:
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            http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/is

          • jacksanass says:
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            “your” definition, like in slick willie’s.

          • Jack says:
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            That makes no sense. I gave you my definition of is. And why do you bring up a right-winger like Clinton? I thought you were trying to bash liberals.

            ?

          • Jack says:
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            Btw… I have no problem with the monicker Slick Willy. He more than earned it, just like shrub earned the monicker Idiot Boy. I’m just too lazy to type it out. In idiot boy’s case, I happen to like plants and think his other names does them all a grave disservice.

          • Jack says:
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            *do

          • jacksanass says:
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            You gave me webster’s definition. Not trying to bash anyone, just stating the obvious. You really do have a reading comprehension problem. I do enjoy skull fucking you because you always swallow.

          • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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            As if this whole string of comments wasn’t bizarre enough…..

          • Jack says:
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            That definition is mine. Is yours different?

            That would be biz.

            You, apparently, want biz.

          • Jack says:
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            Sorry. Biz is your thing.

          • Jack says:
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            blazer,

            Watch Das Boot with a bluejacket. Then do the same with top gun. Your perspective will be changed forever… and you will laugh your ass off whenever Tom Cruise walks onto your screen.

            Captain Phillips was decent in a G rated (very G rated) kind of way. Lone Survivor was decent. American sniper was pretty damn good except for the non-combat drama. That was one real movie.

            When you look at most military movies, they’re just shit because nothing is real. They can come close sometimes. They almost always fail. Das Boot was real and gritty. It didn’t even pretend to pretend.

          • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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            Saw Das Boot years ago and remember liking it, but dont remember much of it except the silent tension before charges went off. Just picked up Amer. Sniper from the library yesterday but havent watched it yet. Been tough to find enough free time for movies lately. Glad to hear it comes recommended.

          • Jack says:
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            I was lucky enough to be support only for places like Grenada, the gulf and the Balkans. I have family who were not so lucky. I have friends who are destroyed. I can’t tell if they are as happy as other friends who have killed themselves because of the torture war put them through.

            Seriously.

            That’s what I think about when some politico spews about bombing this or that place to hell. I cry more than a human should.

          • Jack says:
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            You gave me webster’s definition. Not trying to bash anyone, just stating the obvious. You really do have a reading comprehension problem.

            Not trying to bash anyone? You’re bashing Webster… some dude I have no ties to… or even think is alive. But you wanted a definition of a word, and I provided one. Apparently you were lying about that and want to make fun of the direct answer to your direct question.

            I pity your children. I pity myself for having to imagine your children.

            Okay. That’s done. What’s next?

          • Jack says:
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            Your words… not mine

            You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger”—that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states’ rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites.… “We want to cut this,” is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than “Nigger, nigger.”

            Suck it puppet boy. That’s your shit right there, and it will always be your shit when you think your catch words mean something more than you being a tool. You fucking stupid people make me sick.

          • Jack says:
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            And don’t think the content is what makes me sick. It does… or did once upon a time. I’m calloused now. But what makes me sick is that you don’t even know you’re as stupid as you are. I know you must think you’re a moron for being a puppet and a parrot, having no original thought. But you couldn’t have known that even the little signals in your supposed half-intelligent “economic” thoughts were just racist bullshit refined over the years in order to scare Joe Schmoe into voting against non-whites… other than of Hispanic heritage.

          • Jack says:
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            Imagine me saying all that while holding a teacup and having my pinky extended the whole time. You can even add in a monocle to make the look complete.

            Then you can go fuck yourself.

        • Beavlover69 says:
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          Kevin Durant would agree

        • Jack says:
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          Yeah… foot injuries are what they are. In hoops, this one is like a hang nail for a pitcher. It stops everything for a while, but it heals.

          Taken in context, it makes a reasonable person wonder why foot injuries are something that last beyond six to ten weeks when football is concerned.

  • Mb says:
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    In football, the guys pack more weight than a foot was designed to support. Over grazing causes all kinds of unintended consequences.

    • Jack says:
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      I’m thinking there’s a chance these trench players also come back and get in the mix with a lot of other big guys who will step on and under your feet, exacerbating the problem. It’s easier for skill players to heal and remain healed with these type of injuries.

  • Jack says:
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    I can see what angry says about me speaking in riddles. When you read between the lines, everything I say is a riddle.

    I think Darwin would feel this way if he ever heard about Intelligent Design… except I’m not nearly as intelligent as Darwin was… but I am more intelligent by leaps and bounds than anyone who sincerely proposes ID (sincerely being the key word).

    Was that also a riddle?

    • cj cj says:
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      Of course! You’ve already said that you speak in riddles, certainly so between the lines.

      • Jack says:
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        No!

        angry said as much, if you will.

        I said it not, don’t be shrill.

    • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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      but I am more insane in the membrane by leaps and bounds…………

      FTFY

  • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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    said the aging hipster

    • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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      meant for Jack’s reply but apparently I am not smart or intellectual enough to reply to his posts. I bow to his superior brain over the mush in mine

      • Jack says:
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        wait… wut?

        • Jack says:
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          And don’t call me a hipster… as if I even know what that is. I was cool in my mind long before I got to high school.

          • Jack says:
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            So… tempting… to post a ToP link right now… so… tempting.

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