Home Football Beaver Bye-week boredom brings Baldwin/Babers ballot

Beaver Bye-week boredom brings Baldwin/Babers ballot

497

Ok, I don’t know how to make a poll in wordpress and don’t have time to read up on it.

I like Babers as a potential HC option

Angry and serveral others here like Baldwin.

Let’s hear the arguments for others candidates.  Be realistic.  Post links, current salary info, evidence of success at current program, etc.

Once we get a solid top 4 candidates who most people would like to see, I’ll set up a twitter poll and may the best candidate win.

 

Sorry I don’t have anything more interesting to talk about.  It’s a bye week and I want to spend it away from football.

If you are looking for some football to watch right now, Dino Babers and Syracuse are taking on Miami on ESPN currently ;)

497 COMMENTS

  1. Babers is maybe Top 4 material but the 2.95 million to lure him here vs 1.5 to 1.6 million for Beau for likely similar results isn’t worth it. He would be riskier for the university financially. A 14.75 million dollar 5 year deal vs 7.5 or 8 million on a 5 year deal for Beau.

    That’s extra money OSU and Beau can try to use to get Aaron Best as his OC. One of the scenarios I like best is just that with Hall considered for DC.

  2. I’d like to hear one argument for Baldwin. His value is about $500k at the moment. Anything north of that is a waste of money at this point.

    Teams like Buffalo or Wyoming take chances on elite head coaches from lower levels. Those coaches are elite because they don’t rely on having a great lower level QB to try and outscore other teams. They manage a competent staff that coaches both sides of the ball well. Those who coach a one-sided team get to try out a coordinator position.

    What else has he done on the FBS level to even be considered?

    • As far as I can tell, Beau is that same as GA and McGiven: they lucked out with 1 qb.

      If not for Vernon We might not even know who Beau Baldwin is.

      Maybe Baldwin is a great coach but we don’t really know. We don’t know if he can recruit the PAC 12.

      I’d rather roll the dice on Hall. At least we know he can recruit and motivate.

      • Hall needs to win 2 or 3 games. I see a chance at 1 more win this season but beyond that is orange colored glasses as Mike Parker moral victories. He has a chance to remain on staff but handing anyone the keys who isn’t winning games is a bad idea. Sets the bar too low. Let’s see how close he plays Stanford and how well he can do on the road. My guess is Beavs will lose by 14-20 in their road games.

        • So he has to win 3-4 PAC 12 games with the youngest team in the league, with a MWC qb or a redshirt freshman or safety at qb.

          Tall order to ask for someone to “prove” themselves.

          I’d say if he wins 3+ games at those odds, he’s more then earned but deserves the job

  3. I am in the Baldwin camp but for the sake of argument I will present an argument for Jonathan Smith.

    Current Salary: $700,000

    Resume (with comments):

    4 year starter at OSU
    (Under 2 coaches who had success at OSU as coaches: success defined as getting to a Bowl on a consistent basis; this experience could give him a unique perspective when recruiting kids to Corvallis)

    2 year grad assistant at OSU
    (Again under the same 2 coaches that had success at OSU, he has seen two unique styles of coaching that both found success at OSU which could help him succeed)

    6 years as QB coach at Idaho
    (Worked under 3 coaches Nick Holt (potential DC connection), under Dennis Erickson, and Rob Akay (potential coaching connection now at Florida) recruiting in the same area as OSU would typically recruit and having to do more with less at a struggling program. Effective enough to survive on three different staffs)

    2 years as QB coach/Offensive coordinator at Montana
    (Ran an up tempo attack that was effective enough to win a conference title and reach the national semifinals of the FCS playoffs)

    2 years as QB coach at Boise State
    (Working under the very successful Chris Peterson, recruiting/developing a similar level of player that an OSU would need to be able to get to Corvallis and develop)

    4 years as Offensive Coordinator at Washington
    (Again working under Chris Peterson but now at a PAC program expected to compete for national titles, more exposure to similar recruiting grounds needed for success at OSU)

    Beyond the resume:
    Smith could provide a boost to the program in terms of connecting to its success of the past, potentially draw some boosters/fans back to the program that remember the Fiesta Bowl, and could be a great salesman for OSU football.

    Final thought:
    If Smith has the right connections to put together a quality coaching staff he could be the perfect football nerd to get OSU back into Bowl games on a regular basis.

    Don’t shoot the messenger, people wanted some pitches so I made one. Again, I am in the Baldwin camp but don’t hate the idea of Smith if he put together the right staff around him. At the end of the day I still think being a great HC is less about X and O’s and more about managing a staff. No idea if Smith is up to that. But honestly rather any assistant is up to that is an unknown till they get the chance to do it.

    • Got Smith in my Top 3 for reasons above. Beavs also potentially could get him down the road depending on what Beau or another coach does at OSU. Baldwin has proved he can be an effective head coach and compete against Pac-12 teams so isn’t as risky. Beau would only cost a little more than Smith and what you may get with that 100K is alot more than what you’d get by spending another 1.0 to 1.5 million for Babers or another ‘seasoned’ HC who is more likely to just want a good contract and like GA won’t win enough games.

      Oregon State has more room to structure incentives if they go younger. Will help keep OSU away from an underperformer and from getting stuck financially with the wrong guy if the results aren’t there.

  4. With less than 1/6 the money of Pac-12 teams he beat Oregon State, Washington State and had UW on the ropes in Seattle in an NFL stadium at CenturyLink Field. He also has helped revive Cal who is performing much above expectations.

    You didn’t like Wilcox either and both he and Baldwin are helping Cal. Beau in his head to head vs Grinch was clearly better. It was a steady offensive showing and Cal outscored WSU 37-3. Sure looks like either Wilcox or Beau would have been much better hires than GA.

    Not crowning the guy yet but very curious to see him take on Arizona and Khalil Tate tonight at 5pm on the Pac-12 Network. Right now Babers is losing 10-0 to Miami and Miami has the ball in Syracuse territory threatening to score again. Paying 80% more for him most likely would not be worth it.

    • Keep in mind, although Cal has underperformed for a while they’ve always had a lot of talent. They’ve also been a historically offensive team, with a ton of talent there.

      In particular, their WR corps is insane. Likely best in the conf. I’m concerned with the lack of results. I think the real coaching accomplishment is building a strong D there.

  5. Sorta OT: As asked in the last thread (I also don’t know how to set up a poll in wordpress)

    A question for all you degenerates, I’d be curious to know if angry’s oft stated aversion to “these boys” is cringe worthy to many here.
    Just upvote this comment if you are annoyed by Hall’s use of “these boys”, downvote if it doesn’t bother you.
    Thanks.

      • It’s almost as if we’re trying to be PC about something. If the boys don’t care, I don’t care. If they do care, then I would be wondering what happened to the relationship that they would care about something so inconsequential.

      • “Not directed towards you OBB “…………..Understood.
        I only posed the question because I wondered if I was alone in thinking that angry was hung up on Hall’s use of “boys”. At this point, it looks like I’ll not be singing “Only the Lonely” (poorly).

  6. Trying to understand this Dino Babers thing:
    Is he really just getting talked about bc he beat Clemson last week?
    His resume is fair to good.
    Seems well rounded in experience as a coordinator, normally promoted.
    To those hot on him, honest question : why?

      • Down 13-20 on the road at #8 Miami is nothing to be ashamed about. Still 1 quarter to go.

        When I look at Baldwin’s recent games, I guess I just don’t understand the hype. 263 total yards agaunst Oregon. 133 total yards against UW! 365 total yards against WSU (aided by multiple extra possessions off WSU turnovers. Why are we excited about Baldwin as an OC? Because he had Adams and Kupp for multiple years and won in the Big Sky conference?
        I still have to research Baldwin more closely, but at surface level he doesn’t get me very excited.

        With Babers. I admit I didn’t know much about him until recently, but I looked at his resume, and looked at clips of him speaking to his team, I looked at clips of others talking highly of him, I watched how he can work a room. The guy just has that leadership “It” quality that I look for in a head coach and his teams play up to the level of their competition.

  7. Could the last 5 games be tougher than the first 5 games for the Beavs? ASU may win the south at this rate. Arizona is getting 400 yds rushing each game with Tate at qb. ducks will likely have their qb healthy by the Civil War as well.

    • He lost. Don’t see it happening. Would cost a lot more than other guys that may be just as good. Rather get Smith or Baldwin for considerably less that have the NW connections.

  8. Don’t look now but Ducks have lost 3 straight. Lose 31-14 at UCLA.

    One reason foe Baldwin over Smith besides successful HC experience, would be weakening Cal is more likely to produce Pac-12 North wins then in Smith leaves UW. Beavs still likely to lose to Dawgs but can gain positioning vs Cal to at least change the narrative.

    With the right hire OSU has chance to get ahead of Cal and perhaps Oregon. Wazzu could also slip.

  9. I was checking college football scores on the NBC Sports site and came across this final line for the Bruins/Ducks recap and had to laugh.

    Oregon: The Beavers host Utah next Saturday.

    Join the shitty team/no respect club “Big Brother”!

  10. You guys see Baldwin’s first drive? That was a clinic. Deep intermediate route for a 35+ yard gain, couple of nice runs, moving the chains purposefully and a Ross Bowers statue of liberty play from 11 yards out for the TD. That was nice stuff.

      • Gotta let the game play out. Cal was in great position for another TD until that Bowers throw.

        As of right now though Jonathan Smith stock going up a bit.

        Hate to see what Tate is going to do to OSU’s defense.

    • Cal was 6 of 9 on converting 3rd downs. Thats a critical stat for sustaining drives. Been unforced errors and Tate that has cost them.

  11. Touchdown Cal. Two good offensive playcalls in a row got them a wide open TD.

    Cal still in this if they can somehow slow Tate.

  12. Two for two on full field drives by Cal’s offense this half. Nice keeper by Bowers to run it in for the TD from 7 yards out. Tough to stop Khalil but still a ballgame.

    • USC is overrated by the selection committee types every year, and every year they fall flat on their faces.

      Until USC consistently proves they belong in the top 5, they should be unranked going into every season.

  13. Good news, angry! Don’t need to use a blue pill tonight, McMaryion’s having a great game at SDSU.

    Seeing all our QBs Anderpants ran off do well at other schools while he bombs the program and quits really pisses me off.

  14. I’ll admit I only watched the second overtime of Arizona vs. Cal, but I was not impressed with Cal’s offense in that small sample size.

  15. My excitement/interest in Beau Baldwin decreases each time Get Beau/Joy in Beau/Hire Matt Wells posts. at some point you need to allow room for it to develop instead of being such a hype man. I don’t trust a hype man.

        • How?

          He’s less productive than DG when playing against lesser competition. Are you saying that if he wouldn’t have run away his game would have elevated us to wins in the last two weeks?

          • I mean, I’m willing to suspend the belief that someone not committed to this team would have maybe made second string and played for the sake of your argument. It would clearly have been a mistake to have made him a starter. What happens when he gets benched?

            Easy answer: he transfers.

            He obviously was not committed to this team when he started camp. That probably showed when he half-assed his competition for the starting job. I don’t suspect McGiven knew he had one foot out the door, but most people just know when someone isn’t committed to the task at hand. And it’s not like MM isn’t really good at pouting. It’s like pouting and ambivalence are his only modes.

          • Maybe Kevin wouldn’t be as scared to run the read option with DG knowing he still has a capable QB on the bench when DG inevitably gets hurt.

            That’s different, right?

          • Do you have inside information to McM’s motivation for transferring, Jack? Or are you continuing to speculate, in hopes that we accept it as some sort of truth? Give us some facts or let it go.
            As you love to tell everyone else here, you’re “incorrect” on this one. Good players want to start, he went where he had a chance to do that and was intelligent enough to get the hell out of a dysfunctional situation.

            God Bless, McM.

          • Not true. He’s been far more productive, unless FrSU established the run and didn’t need to pass to win. Your narrative seems to have become distorted because you dislike Angry’s strawman. He ran away from a dysfunctional situation so he could start and have his family watch games easily. I’m not sure how else you can describe what happened this season. Who can blame him?

            More relevant speculation is which team would win on any given Saturday this season: Fresno State led by McM or the Beavs?

          • What about the other side of your argument? You know- that the coaches (meaning GA, primarily) weren’t committed to him! It has to go both ways, and we know it didn’t. So faulting McM for wanting to play instead of being on the sidelines for the shit show that was the early season is the right thing? I have to heartily disagree.

            You’re telling us that you’d stick around when it was obvious you weren’t wanted by at least the head coach and knowing at the time you wouldn’t play? I don’t think so, Jack.

          • Do you have inside information to McM’s motivation for transferring, Jack?

            I’m playing off the narrative you all set forth. See below for more. You all think that showing up to camp then running away because one feels entitled to start is somehow a mature decision made without emotion. I say there is no way anyone who shows up to camp but has that option in his back pocket is committed to the team or the task at hand. When someone isn’t committed to something when everyone else is giving their all, it sticks out like a sore thumb.

            But let’s say it doesn’t. Let’s say your narrative is true, no matter the upside-down-world reasoning you apply to that motivation. What happens when he gets benched for a poor performance? We already know he’s not committed to this team. This is the one fact we know. It’s not opinion. He is literally not committed to this team. Poor performances occur when non-committed people are given responsibility. If he gets benched after game one, your narrative suggests he leaves.

            Good players want to start, he went where he had a chance to do that and was intelligent enough to get the hell out of a dysfunctional situation.

            That’s fine. But I don’t want to hear that he was ever committed to this team when he went into camp, dysfunctional situation or not. He obviously was not. And he left a situation where we were left no time to find a contingency, whether it be another DL or OL or even just to run Moran as a QB all summer. It was his decision to pretend to be committed then leave us in the lurch.

            Sorry, I don’t think that’s a mature way to go about making decisions if he is following your narrative. If he did it for other, mitigating circumstances, then I can support the timing of the decision as mature. But your narrative does not provide that possibility.

            So you need to be the one who provides facts. This is not my narrative. It’s yours, and you don’t like that I apply real-world reasoning to your narrative. Someone who pretends to be committed to your organization then leaves you in the lurch because s/he feels entitled is obviously not fit to be a part of your organization. Therefore, any decisions the coaches made to not start him were correct, and attempt to compare his performance where he is committed has zero validity. That he’s committed to another team also does not negate the fact that he is and was not committed to our team, but pretended to be so according to your narrative.

          • Five paragraphs of nothing. Find a player who says McM was not committed in Spring or Fall camp and let the team down by transferring. Stop the blather, Jack. You aren’t going to win this one. Oh and god damn that Richard Mullaney for abandoning the team and going to Alabama. Another uncommitted pussy, right?

          • Let’s put this another way to see if you guys can get it.

            If you are hiring someone to work for you and all things are equal. You have to choose between MM and someone who has the exact same resume/looks/demeanor/etcetera. The one difference is that MM’s doppleganger stayed at his original school to be the back-up QB. You can ascribe any stats or success you want to him, because none of that matters. But I will say that you can’t miss on the hire for the first year because either will be a superstar.

            But the superstar will come to you after a year, and for whatever reason you can’t give either what they think they deserve.

            If your narrative of MM is true, which one do you hire?

          • I don’t have to find anyone to say MM wasn’t committed in fall camp. If your narrative is true, his transfer speaks for itself. If there is some other, rational narrative, that changes. But your narrative says he wasn’t committed.

          • Did Mulaney start fall camp then leave his team in the lurch?

            I don’t remember that. But if he did, then yes, your narrative says he is also a pussy.

            I don’t know why you think this is about winning an argument. You guys continue to bring up and drive into the dirt your narrative. I continue to respond to your narrative by applying real world reasoning to your narrative. You hear your narrative in rel world terms, and you dismiss your own narrative as some kind of argument trying to be won.

            It’s your narrative. You’ve been cramming it down my throat for two and a half months. You don’t get to be upset when I puke it back atcha. That’s because it’s your narrative.

            You think MM was not committed to this team. You think he was afraid to stay and compete. You think he pretended to commit to the team in the fall then deceived his team by quitting on them. You think these things and continue to foist it upon us all. You think he went somewhere he didn’t have to compete for a starting job because he feels entitled to be starting. You all also ascribed some weird conspiracy theory about how his decision to leave the team in the lurch after pretending to commit to the team (according to your narrative) caused disharmony among the rest of the team, as if anyone on a team thinks about a quitter, as MM must be to believe your narrative.

            This isn’t about winning an argument. This is about you all not having the stones to own your own narrative.

  16. SDSU is worse than anything we’ve put on the field this year. I don’t think we looked this bad against UW.

    Was someone hyping Rocky Long here earlier?

    I don’t think they had a first down in the second or third quarters. I wasn’t paying enough attention to know for sure. This is just some abhorrent football by the whole SDSU team. They make Fresno’s O look average, and they make their D look world class.

        • Agreed….FSU went from 1-11 last year to 5-2 so far this year and 4-0 with MM starting. It kind of makes me wonder where the Beavs would be this year had MM stayed and CHall would have been the coach to start the season. I think we’d be at least 3-4 or maybe even 4-3 and not 1-6. Instead, we got stuck with GA and his decision to start Luton….UnBeaverable!

          • Again, you THINK we’d be better if someone who, for a fact, is not committed to this team and is committed to another team was here in place of someone who is committed to this team.

            And you back it up by giving a frequency illusion combined with coincidence as evidence. You could make an argument that Fresno would have less wins if Virgil was starting. It would be hard to make that argument because you would then have to look at them as a team instead of just one person.

            But there is no way to project his ability to our team unless you compare his efficiency against UW’s second and third string D. Even that’s a flawed comparison since that game was done in the first quarter. But if you look at DG’s efficiency in the late fourth quarter and compare it to MM’s efficiency against the same personnel, you might be able to glean some numbers.

            That still doesn’t make him committed to our team, thus making him fit to be a part of our team, let alone a starter.

        • I think he’s a pussy if your narrative that he’s a pussy is true. I don’t think of him in that way except that you all continue to force this narrative down everyone’s throat in a giant dumb herd mentality.

          So I have to continue to ask why you insist MM is a pussy.

          • You’re saying he was uncommitted and ran away and pouted I say you have no way of knowing. I’m saying he did what any solid graduate player looking for a starting job would do. Now, if he was not able to beat out Virgil and he quit FSU than I might concede your point. Otherwise, stop the character criticism or let’s make a list of graduate transfers and start calling them out one by one for fucking over their teams. Russell Wilson anyone?

          • Nope.

            You’re saying all that he was uncommitted and ran away and pouted. I’m saying you have no way of knowing and that there are other, mature reasons that could be floated, if we have to float them at all.

            Did Russell Wilson begin fall camp with NCSt before leaving for Wiscy? Did any other grad transfer do that? If they did for the reasons you say MM did it, then none of them are truly committed to any of their original teams, and you have to add that they were likely screwing their teammates by leaving them in the lurch.

            Why is that so hard for you to understand?

          • Who the ‘F’ says McM was uncommitted??? He got shafted by the nut-bag of a coach we had, who could never seem to make up his mind about a starting QB. The fact that the QB’s that GA ran off happen to be doing pretty well at the other programs they went to tells me all I really need to know. GA couldn’t evaluate QB talent – he is a DC and that is what he probably will always be – he is not a head coach. He got pretty lucky at his prior stops as he just happened to show up when the cupboard was full, talent wise. The kid wins the CW for the first time in forever, it sure looked to me like we had a starting QB for fall ’17.

      • Bad enough team to beat Stanford and Arizona State?

        This is what I answer above. Apparently you just didn’t watch that game. The SDSU that played last night doesn’t beat anyone in the Big Sky, let alone beat the same Stanford or ASU teams they played in those respective games. Their QB missed several wide open receivers ten yards in front of him. Their O-line was sluggish and really weak. It was possibly the worst side of football I have seen in years. And I include all Beavs teams back to Pettibone. GA’s and MR’s worst teams beat that team last night. It was like someone sent out the hoops team to play football.

          • No.

            That team that played last night was that bad. If you watched the game, you had to see it. Their D was just bad. But their O was the worst I have ever watched, outside their first drive. Without looking at their stats, I’m guessing their first drive plus their second team in garbage time outproduced them in the rest of the game.

          • Sure one bad game if that’s the comparison you want to make, also give some credit to a much improved Bulldog defense. McM ran that offense like he was supposed to last night.. Now, notice I have never said anything about him leading the Beavs to any extra wins, but he fills FSU’s needs in the MWC and I’ll go out on a limb and suggest that Tedford knows more about QBing than you.

          • … also give some credit to a much improved Bulldog defense.

            Whoa!

            There’s someone on the team besides MM or Virgil?

            Color me impressed. You are the first to admit it here.

            It’s like the Kempt win over Okie. Everyone who isn’t wearing the conspiracy-against-mediocre-or-worse-QBs-colored sunglasses would look at the press and see that Lanning was all the talk after that game. Kempt did his job and was acknowledged for it. But Lanning was who led the team to that win, and the ret of the world gushed over him.

          • Sure one bad game if that’s the comparison you want to make….

            There’s no comparison being made. That team last night was pathetic. They were not that team two weeks ago. Last week seemed like an anomaly, a bad game. This game made me think Jerry Sandusky was hanging out in their locker room, and they were told they couldn’t say anything about it.

            They were that bad last night. They are not that team on paper. They were that team last night. The only thing I can find that might contribute to that non-performance is the passing of Tom Ables.

  17. Back to OP:

    Less my personal opinion, but another name to float; maybe others who know about him can comment?

    “Jim McElwain: CBS Sports’ Dennis Dodd reportedly theorized aloud (on radio) that Florida head coach Jim McElwain might run away from Florida. Dodd offered, “He’s 3-3 halfway through his third season, but what about Jim McElwain, a guy from the west maybe sneaks out and takes Oregon State? — ‘Hey, I’m sick of it. Forget this. I don’t need this aggravation, because these people don’t appreciate what I’ve done.’ It’s going to be interesting to see.” — We simple folk at FootballScoop don’t foresee the head coach at the University of Florida sneaking out west to take the Oregon State job. Presumably crazier things have happened; but we just don’t see this one coming together.”

    — Via http://footballscoop.com/the-scoop/ (Oct. 20)

  18. Maybe a higher power will tell him to make the move?
    Could the higher power be Nick Saban?
    Maybe he gets sick of getting his ass kicker by his mentor and former boss?
    This does have a little GA in it after all.
    We have at least a .05 % chance of this happening. Time to get your season tickets!

  19. Bret Bielema – he’s in arguably the toughest division in college football (SEC West) so has had trouble breaking through to that 9-10 win season. Solid coach with recruiting ties to Midwest and southeast.

      • Really? Even if you had the evening free, and it wasn’t a long drive?

        You’d get to see one of the most productive backs in the country and in the PAC….

        Love will probably wish the field was 300 yards long….

        • Yes. Really. Someone could offer me 4 tickets, a $20 bill and a half case of beer and I still wouldn’t go. And I live within 15 minutes of Reser. With what little I HAVE seen from this team I would not waste my time watching in person. At least on TV if the game sucks I can turn it off and go do something else.

  20. Does UO trending toward becoming a pedestrian program help the Beavs chances of hiring a better coach knowing the playing field has become a lot more level?

    • You guys want Taggart? Flash sale. Beavs suck more however.

      That performance against Colorado was against the second worst team at home. The Cougs skunked the Buffs. OSEww should try to get Miles, Smith or Baldwin. Might actually compete against us more often.

      Who knows though, if Ducks want to send Tagwart packing we may let you have a chance.

      • Not sure if this is a real duck fan or not, but I’m surprised duck fans are jumping off the Tahgart bandwagon so quickly. A healthy Patrick Herbert has this team at 5 or maybe 6 wins right now, with the chance for 2 or 3 more.
        I’d gladly take Taggart and his schtick here at osu for a year or 2, if only to help build up the recruiting.
        Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad to see the ducks struggle, but I do think it’s happening mostly due to injuries.

  21. Brent Brennan of San Jose State. Salary $575K for 5 years
    $100K for a major bowl; $10K for other bowls; $5K for a bowl victory

    College football coaches salaries and contracts
    https://projects.newsday.com/databases/long-island/college-football-coaches-salaries-contracts/

    From Oregonlive:
    http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2016/12/brent_brennan_oregon_state_rec_1.html

    “…Brennan, a Bay Area native and former UCLA player, was also the wide receivers coach and recruiting coordinator at Cal Poly from 2001-04.

    At OSU, Brennan helped develop former OSU stars Brandin Cooks and Markus Wheaton and was a primary recruiter in California. This past season, he and former offensive coordinator Dave Baldwin coached the receivers together, with Baldwin taking the inside group and Brennan the outside targets.

    The promotion for Brennan should also come with a significant pay bump, as former San Jose State coach Ron Caragher’s salary was $546,745, according to USA Today’s database. Brennan’s OSU salary was $180,264, according to his two-year contract signed in early 2015….”

    —————
    M&S says: Also from that story:

    “…Brennan, who earns his first head-coaching job, had been at OSU since 2011 and was the only assistant coach holdover after Mike Riley left the school for Nebraska and Gary Andersen was hired in 2014….”

    ————–
    M&S says: As I’m sure you-all will recall he got the job with Andersen because wanted to stay in Corvallis.

    From the San Jose Mercury News:
    http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/12/08/san-jose-state-coach-brent-brennan-snaps-crackles-pops-at-introductory-news-conference/

    : “…One familiar theme in all the response (during the search) when I asked about Brent was ‘Great recruiter,’’ Bleymaier said. “Everyone agreed he’s ready to be a head coach, and that he loves San Jose State.”…”

    ————
    M&S says: But we already knew that he’s a good recruiter based on his recruiting for OSU.

    ————
    One more excerpt from the Mercury:

    “…*** Hiring coaches:

    Brennan has already reached out to industry contacts to begin the process of assembling a staff.

    Despite his background on the offensive side, he does not plan to call the plays and will turn that over to his offensive coordinator.

    His defensive coordinator will be “a tough guy.”

    “I want coaches with good energy,’’ he said. “I can’t have a staff of guys standing around watching practice. I’ll go crazy.”

    The Spartans have one of the lowest salary pools for assistant coaches in the Mountain West. Bleymaier said increasing the fund is “critical” and that the money would come from fundraising and the Spartan Foundation….”

    ———————–
    M&S says: I’m thinking he’s worth being considered budget wise, recruiting ability and the fact that he now has 1 year of head coaching experience which is much better, imo, than having non at all at this level.

    OSU might be able to get him for something like $750K which would mean a savings of almost $2M per year and that money could be plowed into, as I’ve said before, paying down the debt, improving the facilities, etc. etc.

      • Hi WSN

        Are you out on leave or have you served your time?

        Just because a coach worked for those two doesn’t necessarily mean they’d be a bad coach.

        How about Paul Chryst for example.

        Now there are former and current Riley and Andersen assistants that I wouldn’t want to see become the OSU head coach, but I’d be willing to give Brennan a chance.

        But obviously that’s just me.

        • Count me out on Brennan. Would you have given him a shot last year? I wouldn’t have. Nothing he’s done this year is going to convince me otherwise. Let him run his own program for a while and see how he does.

          • I would not have felt comfortable giving him a shot last year because he had no experience as a head coach but he will have one year’s worth of experience at the end of this year. Imo he, like all other coaches, can’t be judged on what their 1st year team does or doesn’t do. The team is what it is. I haven’t watched them so I don’t know if they’re showing any improvement in fundamentals and imo that’s about all the coaching staff can be judged on. And it’s the entire coaching staff not just the head guy.

            Imo OSU is in a situation where beggers can’t be choosers. They have to get their financial house in order this requires hiring a coach for something that’s less than $1M/yr.

            Anyone else who’s on the list has not recruited to Corvallis. Brennan has and was successful at it. Imo that’s a biggie.

  22. comments on a couple of coaches:

    My nephews are Florida alums and big football fans. This is their take on McElwain:

    “Nobody would be upset if he left today. Team is severely limited with suspensions and injuries. Injuries are not his fault but suspensions reflect on him. The big problem is the inability to improve the offense or develop a real QB. It is unwatchable. Still ranked in the 100s I believe. Offense is supposed to be his area.”

    “‘I can teach my dog to play QB’ was the quote when hired. Well, put the dog in at this point. Georgia has two five star QB’s on the roster and another one committed and we cannot find anybody. Lastly, he is plain weird in his press interactions which people think explains the recruiting too. I don’t think he is going to be the answer here barring some major change.”

    My take: another weird guy who can’t figure out the QB situation. Been there done that.

    I think the coach we should be looking at in California isn’t Brennan, but Tedford. He’s the one guy (not Beau, not Brennan, heck in their day not even Riley and Carroll) who has prepped the following QB’s who made it to the NFL: in no particular order, Trent Dilfer, Billy Volek, Akili Smith, Joey Harrington, Kyle Boller, and yes, Aaron Rodgers. I might add, (ahem) Marcus McMaryon. May have recruited Goff at Cal too. I think we have a lower opinion of him than we do because Riley had his number when he coached at Cal. Knows the west coast, his teams have an offensive identity, he fits the profile of OSU’s recent successful coaches (i.e., Erickson and Riley coming off a rebound of having been fired). Have I made the case?

    • He was very much Cal’s Mike Riley. Did some great things for the program but seriously regressed and stunk up the joint for the last 3-4 years before getting fired.

      Go back and look at his last 3 years or so…they were a terrible program. Wasn’t just us beating him. No thanks. I guess you could argue that getting fired and a change of scenery might have shaken things up for him, but I wouldn’t want to gamble on that.

      • Oregon State ruined his Cal coaching career after the Beavs beat the sudo #1 team in the country in 2017 (technically #2 but #1 team lost earlier that day). Tedford is an unknown at this point. Is he still good enough to coach in the Pac-12 vs. the MWC at Fresno State? I say no for 2 reasons:

        1) MWC isn’t that strong of a conference IMHO compared to say the Big East(Non P5).

        2) Tedford may have Fresno State playing better this year, but it is his first year at Fresno St. He needs more time to convince people he can still coach consistently.

    • Find the next generation qb whisperer not the previous generation’s qb whisperer.

      I’d rather they take a shot on a young guy HC with energy/charisma/personality who has some offensive know how combined with a defensive junkie mad dog for a DC.

  23. When thinking about who we want for a new coach, there’s only one thing to think.

    WWOBSD?

    What would old bone spur do?

    The answer, obviously, is to snort an inordinate amount of cocaine and discriminate against blacks and hispanics so blatantly that the courts have to tell you twice to stop doing it.

    • I like him. I’m not a fan of his ability to find a good QB… or to develop a good QB. But his scheme more than compensates for that failure. Maybe it does better on the west coast, where there are plenty of good young arms with a will to win coming up through high school. If you put four or five of them on your roster, chances are a couple of them can be more than just competent.

      I would rather have the scheme that gives us at least 8 wins a year without a play-maker under center than one that needs a better than competent QB to get to at least 8 wins.

      • His offenses at Pitt were ranked:

        2012: 71
        2013: 99
        2014: 43

        And at Wisconsin:
        2015: 79
        2016: 89
        2017 (YTD): 28

        The W/L records were bad at Pitt, too. I’ll pass.

        Man, their schedule is easy this year. Wisconsin could very possibly go undefeated in the regular season.

        • Third year is the charm, just like this year for GA. Oh wait.
          I know they had issues on the OL the last two years due to injuries and recruiting misses.GA?
          This year they are back to the normal dominant play on the OL.
          I like him because he played for Alvarez and understands the holistic approach to building and maintaining a program that develops players with a limited in state talent pool. They are consistently very good though all types of coaching changes. And yes they have a perfectly easy schedule for a potential playoff bid.

          • Of course, but if you want to follow a template, his is pretty good. Power running with big and generally pretty smart O linemen is a good starting point. Stanford has made it work. MR’s offense
            with a run heavy approach.

    • Speaking of Dorrell, after reading the following about him being fired after one season, I’m thinking why the hell didn’t Andersen do this with his OC’s.

      http://www.latimes.com/sports/ucla/uclanow/la-sp-ucla-karl-dorrell-20141203-story.html

      “…The former UCLA coach was fired as Vanderbilt’s offensive coordinator Wednesday after one season. Apparently his West Coast offense didn’t fare much better in the East than it did in Westwood. The Commodores averaged 17.2 points a game and finished with a 3-9 record.

      One reporting covering Tennessee termed it as the “three-and-out” offense. UCLA fans may remember why. Dorrell was UCLA’s coach from 2003 to 2007 and finished with a 35-27 record.

      • His O is fine. He just can’t be trusted to call his own plays. If he has that self-awareness, he can be an excellent head coach. They beat the teams they shouldn’t have beaten, and they lost to the teams they shouldn’t have lost to. And now that I’m reading what I write, he sounds a lot like MR.

  24. Beau Baldwin lost to Youngstown State in the semi finals last year to Bo Palini in his first year at Youngstown State…Right now Youngstown State sits at 3-3 with losses to Pitt in OT, FCS No. 7 South Dakota by 3, and No. 2 North Dakota St. by 3 in OT. I would say Bo Palini is doing pretty good for his second year at Youngstown State.

    If there’s an argument for Baeu Baldwin, there’s got to be an argument for Bo Palini too.You want proven NCAA FBS winning ability, can recruit, can get guys fired up, and can actually stand up to the media? Bo Palini is our man. Just saying.

    • Someone who ostensibly writes about football said it would be dumb for OSU to think they could get any O-linemen good enough to respond to his coaching enough to play his scheme. Well, not specifically his coaching, but coaching that relies on sturdy and steady instead of speedy-quick football players. Because apparently speedy-quick football players aren’t in demand, I guess.

        • I don’t think so. Unlike Rudolph, he finds and develops good QBs. I would give Rudolph something of a pass, but didn’t he have Bart Houston on the bench for several years and not develop him enough to beat out a redshirt frosh with half the tools? He has developed that now soph to be a competent, sometimes clutch game manager. So there’s that.

          Bloomsbury has a genuine QB controversy with a couple playmakers in Chryst and Costello. I don’t know why head coaches don’t yank starters when they do poorly. It’s the only sport I know that doesn’t go to the bench if someone plays poorly. Or it’s seen as something personal when a coach does that. In all other sports, we realize our ace isn’t always perfect and needs a break now and then. Why is football different?

          In any case, Chryst should have been yanked in the SDSU game.

      • My disdain for this weird train of thought is borne from seeing a couple linemen on our team who will be playing on Sundays and expecting a couple who redshirted this year to do the same.

        The one pattern that worries me is getting enough DL hosses on the team. Maybe that changes with someone who can sell practicing against a stout O.

    • Fine I’ll make the case for him:

      -Great track record coaching OL (7 players drafted by NFL in 7 years)
      -Offenses at Stanford ranked 78, 40, 103, 34 (YTD)
      -Knows the Pac-12 already
      -NFL coaching experience/connections
      -Recruting connections in CA, FL, GA, OH
      -Young and energetic (only 40!)
      -Embraces technology (he’s the guy that brought the VR training stuff to Stanford)

      Looking at this track record, his offenses have a tendency to be much weaker against better competition. There’s also the fact that his offense was pretty bad last year, even with all the talent they had. I’ve always found Stanford’s playcalling to be somewhat one-dimensional in the sense that if the bread and butter isn’t working, there’s nothing else to turn to. Maybe that’s just a symptom of lackluster QB talent since Andrew Luck.

      Also, Alex Grinch’s D did dominate his O last season. So there’s that.

        • So they were bad because of OL injuries? I can buy that.

          Clearly John Terrence Lynch Jr. doesn’t want to pony up the cash.3

          Still waiting for a credible arugment against Bloomgren…

          • Bloomgren has no head coaching experience so imo that’s a negative.

            The unanswered question which could only be answered by him is would he be willing to take the HC job @ OSU for $750K? If the answer to that is no then move on to the next candidate.

          • Why would you low ball someone who has proven himself on this level? I don’t know his recruiting value, so I would say his real value is at least twice what you’re suggesting. If he’s in demand, that value inflates. Lance Anderson is probably worth more.

            Where do you come up with the low number?

          • “…Why would you low ball someone who has proven himself on this level?…”

            No head coaching experience so proven in what way?

            “…I don’t know his recruiting value, so I would say his real value is at least twice what you’re suggesting….”

            Could be but based on what? He has not proven himself as an administrator and let’s face it that’s a lot of the head man’s job. Then there’s the recruiting aspect of which we have no idea how well he’d do trying to get a kid to come to Corvallis.

            “…Where do you come up with the low number?…”

            Because, IMO, that’s all Oregon State can afford IF they do it the way, IMO, it should be done.

            I’d like to see them find a coach who’s willing to not make what the market will pay as long as OSU guarantees that it will put the difference into paying down the debt, improving the facilities and paying salaries that are high enough so that the coach can bring in assistants that can get the job done. With the idea that there will be salary increases for the coach as things improve (bigger crowds, debt reduction, better recruiting classes, teams that display solid basics, etc.)..

            Taking it a step further wouldn’t it be nice if the football HC was even willing to let some of the funds that would have gone into his wallet go towards improving GILL?

            IMO Currently OSU cannot afford a $2M salary, nor a $1.5M salary and not even a $1.0M salary.

            First things first. Get the athletic department’s financial house in order.

          • So we’re a Sun Belt team now?

            I don’t disagree with you in principle because there doesn’t seem to be a slam dunk hire out there, but your number is ridiculously low.

            You want to see financial struggle? Drive the football program back to the dark ages by hiring some desperate HS coach that will take the lowest salary. The lost revenue and donations from that will far outweigh the money you saved.

            Also, hiring the right coach for an extra $1M per year is way cheaper than any kind of worthwhile facilities upgrade.

          • No head coaching experience so proven in what way?

            There’s a pecking order in college football. If we’re not going to poach another P5 head coach, the next tier would be G-whatever head coaches and successful coordinators trained in the ways of successful P5 head coaches.

            Next would come P5 position coaches… maybe… if a P5 school was really that desperate.

            Unemployed NFL and P5 rejects would be situational if you’re going to try to slot them. GA would be the bottom tier, below Pop Warner rookie coaches. Chip Kelly would be above tier one.

            That’s about all that should be considered.

          • $750,000 is less then what Sitaki was making when he was here. And I think it’s in the upper end of the conference for a coordinator. So we want to pay a coach and 2 coordinators about the same amount of money? $750,000 has to be the lowest pay in the power5.

  25. Kind of late with this one but did anyone notice how Colorado hardly ever provided any safety help for Vilamin? He had one-on-one coverage all day long. Kind of disappointed in the staff for missing that. I know they had a mandate to run but taking a shot or two could have been the difference between a FG and TD. I mean if you don’t like the ability of Vilamin to make a play 1 on 1 why even have him out there? Just bring in an eligible OT or extra TE and provide more blocking. Makes no sense to have the 1-on-1 out there all day and never test it.

  26. After watching McM Saturday and seeing the Beavs against Colorado without Anderson it just makes me dream how things could have been way different this year if things were done right. I was 100% Anderson for the longest time but now the light has exposed so much. It is a shame. After Riley there was so much to capitalize on… it was a new start. Now it is a problem left behind by the guy who wrecked it mid-season.

  27. FWIW I’m reserving judgement on GA until later, probably much later. The reason being I suspect there’s more to this story than what we’ve been told. It will not surprise me if it turns out there’s some serious issue which caused his sudden departure and he didn’t want it to be made public. JMO

  28. OT: Speculation of who the next coach might be aside, after I saw the video of Coach Hall giving a speech after the game to his guys kind of fired me up (as much as I can be after getting bludgeoned by boring old coaches and their unwillingness to change for nearly 8 years). Or maybe that was the video presentation…the only thing OSU’s Athletic Department has gotten better at in the last couple of years. What I see with him is a guy who knows how to connect and encourage his guys, which I believe is the sort of infectious enthusiasm we’re desperately going to need in our future coach, whoever it may be. That sort of attitude can make up for a lack of personnel or experience every time.

  29. Screw it! Coach hall to HC for $1.25 million a year with built in bonuses for the team doing well. I really liked his speech noted above. He understands the players and they understand him. He’s hands on and I believe he is a good motivator. Spend top dollar on offensive & defensive coordinators.

    • We hired Dino Babers and he’s bringing an all star staff that includes:
      Beau Baldwin – OC
      Jonathon Smith – co-OC
      Brent Brennan – WR
      Alex Grinch – DC
      Trent Bray – LB
      Cory Hall – DB
      Bruce Read – ST coordinator (ran out of money and he was available)

    • Not much. Baldwin almost took down Khalil Tate as he continues his stampede through the Pac-12. Bowers made a couple dumb mistakes in the 1st half but they still converted most their 3rd downs. 2nd half was 80 yard drive after 80 yard drive for a TD 3 times then a 52 yard field goal scoring on every possession until the final 20 seconds. Both teams scored twice in OT and Cal dropped one in the back of the endzone like OSU at UW years back.

      Besides that just waiting for Thursday. Lots of $3 to $8 seats on Seat Geek.

    • You missed one Beau Baldwin fanboy changing his name about 6 times, to drum up false excitement for “Find the Joy Beau”

      I think the main problem I have with Baldwin is he was successful at a school that traditionally recruits some of the best talent for it’s level. He was successful at EWU, but to me that sortof like being successful at a USC or Ohio State. Several coaches could lead those schools to grest records based on their built in talent advantages alone. Now that he has a Cal team with slightly above average talent, his offense looks pedestrian. Imagine how it would look with Oregon State talent.
      I want the coach who can do more with less talent(i know, i hate that term too) and get the most out of his players. To me, that’s why a coach like Babers or Coach Ken become attractive. Their teams play up to the level of competition.

      • Totally agree. My criticism of Baldwin has always been that he recruited tweeners who weren’t good enough to get into the Pac schools in the area. Of course a few went on to have good careers and proved they belonged at a higher level, but that’s not the point.

        Only reason I’m bullish on Baldwin is the other candidates are pretty bad. I think he can do what they’d do and for much less. His career arc is solid in that each job is a step up and he’s been a HC. I really don’t care if we don’t get him. None of these candidates excite me. Maybe we need a boring dude who seems like a bad hire and just gets the job done.

        I’m just going to sit back and watch it play out because I don’t have any strong feelings on this other than I don’t want to overpay for the mediocre names I’m hearing.

        • In other words he recruited the best guys that would be going to an FCS and convinced them to go to EWU and somehow that is a bad thing?

          I don’t follow that logic.

  30. I’m coming around on the idea of Ken Niumatalolo as a top candidate for the Oregon State job. We always bitch about the team not running the damn ball. With him, there would be no shortage of run plays, as the team would average around 400-500 yards in the ground and around 50 yards passing per game.
    A good QB seems to be hard to come by, but a stable of quality running backs seems to be something OSU can recruit more easily.
    Why create a team that depends so heavily on a single accurate QB, only to see your season crumble any time the starting QB gets injured?
    So, for me, Dino Babers would be my swing for the fences option, but my more realistic option would be Coach Ken (sorry, Jack. I know you’d rather keep him in blue)

    • The only way we should hire him is if he’s willing to add some passing to his offensive system. We won’t be able to win in the PAC-12 with a defense that doesn’t practice against a competent passing game.

  31. Hard to see any current head coach leaving for the OSU job outside of a pure money grab. There are some promising young head coaches out there but the timing just isn’t right. Not sure if Barnes is going to wait for the season to end and see who gets fired.

    So I am thinking it will be an assistant from a power 5 program.

    – Baldwin will definitely get interviewed. He’ll be a finalist for sure.
    – Venables is and always will be my #1 pick. It’s likely he’ll get a big offer from an SEC school at the end of the year from whoever fires their coach. Barnes has time to recruit guys like him before other schools can make offers.

    Though, a plus of waiting for a head coach from a major program to get fired, is that he can bring recruits in with him, along with a mostly intact coaching staff possibly saving the recruiting cycle.

  32. Here is my prediction:

    Riley and Friends get fired….. Moos, being Moos, says f you to Mr. Nebraska himself and goes and hires Ken Navy Coach, or any other up and comer triple option coach, and all is back to the good old days in NebbyVille…. frostypants loses out on his dream job because, let’s face it, a triple option of flex bone offense at Nebraska, is what made Nebraska, Nebraska.

    Frost takes Oregon State Job…… win win. Nebraska gets back to their roots, and we get one of hottest names in coaching.

  33. Coach I would pay at a GA level:
    Charlie Strong (if he wants to prove himself in the P5 still)

    Mid-tier coach I could live with:
    Bryan Harsin
    Dino Babers
    Ken Niumatololo (if he’s willing to expand the offense. I don’t think you can win in the PAC 12 without practicing against a comepetent passing attack)
    Neal Brown

    P5 coordinators I would be intrigued by:
    Mike Bloomgren
    Alex Grinch

    I don’t think there are any others that are realistic and interesting.

    • Remember when watching the service academies that they have rosters of 200 or so players. Running the option for them is more doable because it’s a game of attrition for them.

      If you’ve watched a triple option run on the west coast, you would know all about attrition.

      • I don’t buy that this is the only reason they succeed with it.

        The offense works fairly well at GT and the academies don’t seem to have unusually high injury rates during the season to their starters.

        • Three points:
          1. They do have an inordinate amount of lower leg and foot injuries that sideline a lot of them. But they are plug and play.
          2. The caliber kids they draw are Ivy smart and football talented.
          3. Their SoS is not that good.

          The pros for Niumatalolo and Calhoun are that they are good coaches… Johnson too. But Johnson has to catch lightning in a bottle and hope his QB doesn’t get hurt in a system where you put him in harm’s way all the time. We’ll see if Johnson’s team can make it to a bowl game this year. Their schedule looks back-loaded.

          I still wake from nightmares about a Beav QB running 40 yards down the sideline, only to be wiped off the field by a backer… never to be seen again.

      • Scott Frost also suited up and played QB on the scout team to prepare his defense for navy’s triple option. Pretty impressive for a 40 year old millionaire.

      • I’m convinced Calhoun has Mike Riley syndrome: inability to think outside a paradigm of mediocrity after a decade of such being rewarded.

        His winning percentage at AFA is only slightly higher than Riley’s was here (58% vs. 55%). He has one conference championship in ten years. His records in the first half of his tenure were better than they’ve been in the second half.

        I just can’t see him bringing a winning mindset here.

        • I’ve wondered lately if as one search criteria you had a winning percentage of 60% or greater, how would that limit the list of candidates?

          I’m not saying it should be the only criteria, but it would be worthwhile to look at the results.

    • If Love can’t play on his injured ankle, who will play RB and will the offense look the same?

      General impressions of Bloomgren’s playcalling? Are they happy with him as OC? Has he grown at all during his time in the position? Any sense that he’s ready to take a HC position?

    • Have they spent much time during their bye week in preparation for the Cougs, who they face next? Are they likely overlooking our Beavs?

      Does the Stanford D front look weaker than recent seasons, or has the play of the DB’s just been so good as to take away headlines from the front?

    • Stanford questions….
      Do they think Shaw is a lifer, or will he end up with an NFL gig?

      Are they worried about Wilcox and Co. long term?

      Did they really crack down on the RV’s parking permanently on El Camino Real next to the campus?

      • They’re just enforcing a 72 hour parking law. The whole area is a place where RVs guerrilla camp for one reason or another. For most of them, it’s because of cost of living/jobs. But there are your usual crowd of mental health cases which stigmatize that lifestyle more visibly than the majority. And where that occurs, you have nimby.

    • What causes Stanford to struggle on the road? They’ve only played 3 road games thus far and are 1-2 with losses @USC, @SDSU, and a close win @Utah? Are they a different team at home than on the road?

    • Hall? Actually I bet jax can do it, with how strong he is both physically (deadlifts) and mentally by not bring a pussy who isn’t loyal….. jax strap it up, The Beavs need you!!!!

    • Stanford has been one of the weaker passing teams in the conference, but should have it pretty easy against an injury-depleted OSU defense that will be geared to stop the run.

    • Morris was listed as questionable on the list I saw. If he can’t go it will hurt, not only the pass D, but the run D as well. Really like his focus and energy.
      Time for the front 7 to have a great game!

      • Back to Arnold and Moore at safety.
        We have Wilson, Dunn, and White at CB/nickel.

        Beyond that…could this be Christian Wallace’s debut? The only other healthy DB’s are freshmen that I assume are redshirting.

  34. Stanford’s Scarlett is having himself a nice season as Love’s backup, story here:

    “Scarlett will have a reunion Thursday night with Oregon State running back Ryan Nall, who ranks sixth in the Pac-12 in rushing with 513 yards and seven TDs in six games. Scarlett and Nall — who is a year ahead of Scarlett — teamed to lead the Rams to their 2014 state title.

    “It’s always fun to see Ryan,” Scarlett says. “He’s a monster, a beast, a freak athlete. I’ve never seen anybody that big, that fast and that powerful. He has it all. I’m a real big supporter of Ryan.”

    http://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/376263-261290-scarlett-red-hot-at-stanford

  35. Anyone remember a RB commit by the name of Taylor Thomas? This was one of Andersen’s first recruits and commits. He was very good friends with Jay Irvine and a few other guys who Andersen was pursuing. Well, this was one of Andersen’s big blunders. He promised this kid everything, and when the player ended up at a community college, Andersen was still promising stuff. Until Andersen dropped him out of the blue with no explanation. Taylor Thomas was a very loyal guy and ignored other offers because he believed in what GA was saying. GA and his staff flubbed this one up pretty bad and it had repercussions because a lot of south Florida guys ended up not trusting our staff.

    Another case was QB David Moore. He fit the profile of what GA wanted when he first arrived, and this guy was promised the world by GA. Moore was THE guy. GA said he was going to be playing his freshman year. GA made this guy promise not to talk to other schools, but then ended up dropping him out of nowhere a couple months into recruiting him so heavily. The kid was confused and ended up speaking to the Oregonian about it (bad mistake) and from what I have been told, GA was PISSED. They never ended up telling this kid why he was dropped so fast. Moore committed to SMU but then ended up flipping to Memphis under Norvell.

    • One more thing about Taylor Thomas…GA played games with this kid from what I was told and it messed up his football career, because after being dropped by GA with no explanation, he missed a window of opportunity to sign with other schools.

      • Taylor Thomas was academically ineligible, and could barely pass classes at JC some where in Kansas. How is it GAs fault (other than recruiting him) that he’s not smart enough to pass classes at either place? Kid had all the talent in the world and threw it away by not doing the one thing that would get him in school.

    • So your point is that we shouldn’t hire GA to be our next head coach, and we should fire anyone on the staff associated with recruiting during that time?

      • I agree, and the more I watch Corey Hall the more stark the difference becomes.

        GA was basically a scrub player, and it almost seems like the “dork who became a cop so he could be a dick to people” syndrome.

        Hall seems like the exact opposite, he had success at every level and he truly knows what it takes and how it feels to succeed.

        **No, I’m not saying that shitty players can’t be good coaches and that good players can’t be bad coaches. So shut up.*

        • I wouldn’t be upset if we hire Hall. I hope he wins some games to get in the discussion.
          The other candidates are so lackluster that I’d take a shot on Hall if the team shows improvement and buys into him. If he gets blown out like GA I wonder if we’ll all change our tune. Probably. Unless they show improvement.

          Wonder if that rumor his wife hates Corvallis is true. Maybe she just hated GA.

          • Agreed on Hall. Nobody floats my boat, and he says the right things with a positive energy. My expectation is to see effort if not wins. I’m not pretending our coordinators are anything more than they’ve shown themselves to be, no matter how much rumormongers want to revise their histories.

            There’s a reason GA pushed Hall for interim, and I think we can see why. He has the right energy to lead right now. If he still has that energy at the end of the season, I’d give him a shot over at least the spammed names. Sumlin would be interesting. Strong would be good.

            But if we’re just going to hire the flavor of the month, we might as well pick the orange one.

          • Counterpoint: I think a team that loses their HC mid season almost always needs a rah-rah type to boost morale and salvage what they can of the season. Doesn’t necessarily make them the best long term option. No question Hall was the right choice for right now.

          • Agree 100%. I’d rather give him a shot then any of the “Realistic” coaching options being floated. I say realistic because I don’t see Sumiln, Strong or Miles coming here. Those are the only 3 names that intrigue me more.

            I also think we would see an immediate recruiting uptick. With Hall at the helm we hold onto Petras, Smalls, and will have a legit shot at the 4* TMP kids.

            Focus efforts going after up and coming OC and DC. Hold onto Woods for OL, Telly for Florida, Taylor for Arizona/Nevada, Chad for the poly’s, Rushing, and Office Guys Nyborg, Guinta and Yray. Juries still out on Phillips.

            Best of luck to everyone else.

          • Not sure if there’s a better option. He just seems underqualified, and for as good as we looked vs COLO, they are not a good team this year. Might be second worst.

            My bigger point is that the biggest need for a team losing their HC is someone who can inspire and motivate and mend a dysfunctional locker room. Long term there are a lot of other requirements, starting with the connections and ability to assemble and manage a great staff. Can Hall do that? No idea, but his Rolodex is probably light at this point in his career.

  36. Hall’s vision for the program seems to be “more of the same, but with me in charge.” He’s not that involved with the game planning outside of his DB group, while GA seemed to be hands off pretty much everything.

    So the question is: was GA’s leadership the real problem? Or are there things structurally wrong with the program? Did GA really hire the wrong [expletive] assistants? If there were major problems apart from GA, does Hall have the connections to bring in the right people to fix them? It doesn’t seem that way to me.

    You all seem to think we were on the right track and we just needed some minor adjustments and some stability.

    • Agree, that does seem to be Hall’s vision, and it’s questionable if he can bring in a good staff (really don’t want to keep most of this staff, unless they do well the rest of the way, and it turns out GA was the complete problem). Something about this staff just doesn’t sit right with me other than D. Baldwin and Hall.

      But anyway, most thought we were on the right track in that we doubled the win total year 1 to year 2, and we had a CW victory. To me this all went downhill with the Washington State game last year, when GA spoke highly of that offense and suddenly wanted to integrate it. That lead to the recruitment of Luton and the subsequent dysfunction, and ultimately GA’s nervous breakdown. Just like the War of the Roses II was the obvious end to Riley (at least to me, because he was shot after that), the Washington State game last year was the end of GA. It just took a bit longer to see that because he had to go out and sign Luton, start him, etc. With Riley it was obvious right away.

      Anyway, if Hall gets the gig he’s going to need a good staff. A good media question would be just that: (a) do you want this job and (b) if so, who is in your Rolodex?

      • I think we should go after Keith Heyward-Johnson as DC. It maybe a stretch for a DC but I think he would be great recruiter, has ties to the program, and could work into the role and come possibly cheaper.

      • It’s funny: I think I’ve seen endorsements of just about every position coach to keep their job. It’s like the staff looks good on paper, but has inexplicably failed to produce competent teams. That or we have great position coaches and horrible coordinators.

        • I know almost nothing about Rushing. The WRs are playing better this year. The QBs are about the same given competition. The RBs look good. The TEs still catch only half their targets.

          OLBs and DL look like they’re doing their jobs if not exceeding their talent. MLBs and Ss are taking the wrong gaps early.

          The O-line has given me pause this year. On the one hand, Houston has been solid, and the left side is money. On the other, Moore is worth one holding penalty per game, and apparently Lauina is worth 5-15 yards in admin penalties plus some matador RT play. Fucking plug Delp and Yanni on the left side. I’d rather see poor play than the inopportune penalties the others bring… especially if we’re gonna grind out the run game.

          • Moore is out tomorrow, so you’ll get one half of your wish.

            On our opening drive of the 2nd half against Colorado, Lauina got called for holding, then got beaten by the guy who would eventually hit DG while throwing and force the INT.

            IIRC, Yanni wasn’t very good in his time under center. I always thought he was an interior guy. Isn’t the next OT up a new JC guy?

          • How about we put Delp in at RG, then we put Yanni at the spot next to him… and we put an 80-something number on Moore and line him up on Yanni’s hip?

    • Aside from Hall, are there any known candidates at this time? Likely not because they already have jobs(?).

      People seem to be falling for Hall because of his energy, which seems like the old trap of a coach who is the opposite of the one who left. Yeah, Andersen USED to have energy, but a few games in this year, he clearly lost it. Riley’s energy was obviously low.

      Need more reasons for Hall than “energy.” If that’s all the reason there is, chances are good disappointment will follow if he’s the HC hire.

      • I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m considering him (not “falling for him”) because the other candidates being mentioned are mediocre to bad. Team seems to like Hall and respond to him. Beavs played their best game since the CW and that was because Hall had them get back to the run game. So, he gets the obvious. It’s not a reason by itself to hire a coach, which is why we have to watch him over the remaining games. Also, having a black coach does have advantage in the modern era.

        PS. Is he OSU’s first black HC? I believe so (unless I’m completely blanking on someone), and very little mention of that.

        Anyway, I don’t love Hall, but to me he’s just as good as the FL guy or Norvell and much cheaper. Same with B. Baldwin. Don’t love him, but he’s cheap and as good as names 3x the price. Law of diminishing returns definitely in play with these mediocre coaches. Unless you go elite like Harbaugh, Chip, etc it’s not worth it, IMO. I really don’t want us stuck with a coach we can’t buyout if he doesn’t pan out. That trapped feeling is horrible for fans and can ruin a program more than a good/cheap hire who just doesn’t get the job done, yet you can move on from easily.

        • Baldwin is not as good as about 30 prospective coaches. He would be a rip-off for a couple years while we wonder why this coach that comes from a 1% success rate pool falls in the 99%.

          Hall would also fall in that 1% success rate pool. He has a half season to show he can be a competent admin plus a leader plus retain his energy.

          That’s a tall order. And even if he does it all right, that just gets him an interview.

          It’s unlikely he’s the next guy. But if he stands through it all, and nobody besides the way inside the box afterthoughts like Baldwin and Smith are on the board, I would commit to Hall with a solid base salary containing proper escalators. And I would allow him to use his energy to recruit real coordinators.

        • Baldwin is not as good as about 30 prospective coaches. He would be a rip-off for a couple years while we wonder why this coach that comes from a 1% success rate pool falls in the 99%.

          Hall would also fall in that 1% success rate pool. He has a half season to show he can be a competent admin plus a leader plus retain his energy.

          That’s a tall order. And even if he does it all right, that just gets him an interview.

          It’s unlikely he’s the next guy. But if he stands through it all, and nobody besides the way inside the box afterthoughts like Baldwin and Smith are on the board, I would commit to Hall with a solid base salary containing proper escalators. And I would allow him to use his energy to recruit real coordinators.

        • Based on what metric is Hall just as good as Norvell? Norvell was known as ASU’s best recruiter because of his energy and work ethic. Hall has yet to win a game at OSU while Norvell has led a top 30 scoring offense for 6 straight years at ASU and now Memphis.
          2017 – 9th
          2016 – 14th
          2015 – 28th
          2014 – 17th
          2013 – 10th
          2012 – 19th

          • I honestly don’t know much about Norvell. What I looked at on wikipedia wasn’t impressive.

            In the prior thread, I asked someone to sell me on him, and the pitch wasn’t that good.

          • How much of any of those scoring Os were the D scoring or gifting short fields?

            And Norvell might fit in since he looks like he should be leading a house full of pouty teenage vampires.

          • I’m not hung up on Norvell being the guy but there are some good coaches in that conference that would be good candidates – Charlie Strong, Scott Frost, Navy guy (not my choice) and Chad Morris.

            Point taken Jack, but looking at yards per game he’s been ranked 13, 23, 23, 40, 31 and 26. I think it’s fair to say he can consistently produce on offense.

          • YPG is a better jumping off point. If it looks wrong, then you can look at rushing v. passing and compare wins v. losses.

            I know it’s counter-intuitive, but a front-running O will have less yards in their wins than in their losses. They will grind the clock instead of running up the score. A pretender is easy to spot when watching for these trends.

  37. Watching previous interviews from past years with McGiven, he seems way more with it than this year. Less “uhh” and apparent confusion. Maybe there’s something to the idea of him struggling to meet an impossible mandate this season. That or he suddenly changed the QB philosophy he’s had for almost a decade.

    If Angry’s theory about the 2016 WSU game is right, I’m envisioning a scenario like Homer at the Bat where GA is Mr Burns, McGiven is Don Mattingly and Canzano is Smithers. GA repeatedly demands things that are incomprehensible and impossible from McGiven (“I want a power run game with air raid elements, Kevin! You call those air raid elements?!) while complaining to Canzano/Smithers on the side about having hired the wrong [expletive] assistants.

  38. Coach search topic :
    Johnathon Smith has a greater chance to be a complete disaster and send us further into a
    decade long downward spiral than he does do anything great.
    Too early for him.
    Later on in his careeer, he will be great as a HC.
    Not now.

    • I haven’t heard Smith in a news conference or anything to get a read on his personality, or lack thereof. People seem to act as if he doesn’t have the personality for a head coaching job and maybe that’s true.

      I think he has a winner’s mindset as opposed to an underdog’s. I like that he had experience under Erickson, so learned about aggressive offenses and defenses, and offense under Riley. Those are the meaningful aspects of his alumni status I care about; not the usual “He’s a Beaver, he’ll take us back to our glory year (singular intentional) just because he’s alumni.”

      With several years under Peterson, my hope would be that from Petersen he’s learned about running a program and being detail oriented.

      His history as a player and his coaching experience combined might make hime effective at recruiting at least offensive players. So based on those reasons, I think he’d be contacted for an interview.

      Maybe he interviews poorly and its clear he needs more time or he’s just not HC material. But it seems like it would be productive to talk with him.

      There’s been criticism of UW’s recent offensive output, but last year they set a team record for scoring and TDs. They run the ball, use a TE or multiple TEs, and have a run:pass balance. I like what they do over pass-heavy offenses.

      I wonder if Barnes had a “short list” and who he is talking to. I don’t have a great deal of confidence in a University that fell into a Riley return (Oh, you got fired?!? Come back!) and fell into Andersen. Will see if Barnes can do better.

      • “With several years under Peterson, my hope would be that from Petersen he’s learned about running a program and being detail oriented.”

        We said this about GA too being under Urban Meyer….That turned out well didn’t it?

          • Yet below you’re calling out that Smith isn’t ready for a head coaching job. Andersen went from coaching at Utah under urban meyer, then wittingham, then onto HC job at Utah state, then HC at Wisconsin. Smith has gone from grad asst at OSU 2002-2003 Dennis Erickson was 2002 Mike Riley was 2003, to Idaho 2004-2009(QB)nick holt was HC from 2004-2005 and is now the co-defensive coordinator and LB’s coach for Purdue 2006 was Dennis Erickson, Montana 2010-2011(OC/QB)HC was Robin Pflugrad who went 13-7 in 2 years as HC, then Boise state 2012-2013(QB), UW 2014-present(co-OC/QB) I would say Smith has a pretty good idea of winning pedigree and has stayed in the pacific NW so he knows how to recruit the NW. I’m willing to give Smith a shot at making his mark rather than ‘riding the coat tails’ as you say.

          • I’m just chuckling at the we who said what you said.

            GA, as you note, went on to create an actual resume. He worked out everywhere but here.

            Smith doesn’t have much to lean on except for these last two seasons.

          • Jack, ok so the two seasons Smith was at Boise State with Peterson, they went to the Las Vegas bowl and beat Washington 28-26 finishing with an 11-2 record and finished 18 in AP and 14 in coaches polls in the Mountain West. 2013 they played Oregon State in the Hawaii Bowl and lost 23-38. Then they went to Washington. Does this mean he’s a mediocre coach or doesn’t know how to prep for bowl games?

          • Who he?

            Petersen didn’t coach that bowl game. Smith had little to do with any of it. There’s probably a reason Prince didn’t go to UW as OC.

            That was the first of three seasons Petersen didn’t win 10 games. I think it has to do with the head coach, mostly. But his supporting staff can be reflected by the numbers as well. I’m saying that if you get so wrapped up in the numbers that you take one variable and exalt or ignore it, you’re thinking too little. Never conflate the value a great player has on his own with the abilities of a coach to develop great players. But also never accept that coaches just throw out the ball and let them play.

            I was going to make an analogy in hoops, where you can win games with one player. But Gene Chizik was brought up earlier. Does anyone think Gene Chizik was ever a great coach? A good one? One who took a paycheck while Cam Newton was on his roster?

            Chizik would be the extreme. Newton didn’t act in a vacuum, but Chizik still sucked… and has a ring to show for it.

      • Interviews don’t win games, it’s how involved will he be with the program, boosters, players, etc. How good is his leadership skills and getting his offense ready to play week in and week out? The tangibles are what matter with a head coach, or coach in general.

        • Interviews don’t win games, players make plays and players win games so skip the head coach interviews……Andersen couldn’t apply whatever he learned from Meyer, so Smith cannot apply whatever he’s learned from Petersen…

          You served on previous hiring panels for OSU football, yes?

      • Helfrich had several years tutelage under Kelly, the recommendation of Kelly, and was a trainwreck. In some respects I’m almost more leery of assistants under elite coaches. Sometimes they are riding the coattails. Another example, Sitake and Whittingham.

        • Promoting an OC to HC while keeping your staff intact yet doing your own thing after awhile will cause a downward spiral. Look at Stanford with Shaw after Harbaugh left. It hasnt been the same team either. Sure they have talent, but if that talent isn’t performing at their best, then they’ll sputter and slip a little more and more if it doesn’t get fixed. promoting assistants to DC’s and changing your OC with current coaches will cause a riff and a team to lose trust.

    • Agreed on Smith being unready. I believe a big part of Petersen being a great coach is just who he is. But another part of that is having had great QB play whenever he was a coach. He was able to trust his QBs and work on something other than explaining every detail to the kids. Bill Walsh talked about how having Montana made him a better coach not for the obvious reasons (that wins came more frequently). Rather, it allowed him to focus on the details everywhere else on the team, knowing Montana was working the QB details just fine.

      A coach then gets to watch tape and learn those details from the QB, learning also how to evaluate similar traits in prospective QBs. Then it becomes easier to recruit the proper talent to your system, rather than gather together a bunch of potentials and hope one of them pans out.

      I would opine that Smith will be ready to try moving up after he’s done coaching Browning. He needs to grow as Jake grows, learning to lead by focusing on the game surrounding his QB. I would probably want to wait one year beyond to see if he can transition to a new QB.

      I would look for a coordinator who schemes to his strengths and recruits like-minded, successful players over time on the P5 level.

        • Not the same. Those studs on the FCS level don’t normally exhibit FBS traits of success. Anyone who conflates FCS with FBS P5 football is about as successful with their argument as FCS teams are against P5 teams.

          Just because we’ve seen it multiple times doesn’t mean it happens a lot.

          So he would need to know how to evaluate, recruit and keep upright a QB who can be successful on this level in order to not lead what is otherwise a mediocre scheme on the FCS level.

        • Vernon Adams, Jr.’s high school coach couldn’t persuade anyone to even look at VA. Beau Baldwin took a chance and we know the rest. Likewise, Cooper Kupp (too small, etc.). You make it sound as though these star players arrived as such. Kupp’s decision to play his senior year at EWU was, in part, testimony to his BB loyalty.

          Baldwin also had Gage Gubrud (for the 113th time, I note he is from McMinnville, fgs) on track to his present stellar season.

          I have no opinion, expertise, or money useful to the hire of an OSU football coach, but please don’t suggest that EWU’s stud QB was only a lucky happenstance.

          • And Adams proved that spinning four years of development on the FCS level could translate into one half season of P5 success due to him not being able to withstand the speed and size of this level of football.

            Aaron Best has admitted that he himself missed on Gubrud, even though he was on his roster. I remember him as a QB in a Les Schwab Bowl, not doing much. I think Best said he was a contingency who, if all else failed, could punt for him.

            Regardless, he doesn’t look quite as good as he did when he had an NFL talent catching his passes.

            Speaking of Kupp, I thought he said he got low level interest but ignored all of them because he was sure he was going to Yale, but then got dropped by them for whatever reason.

            It’s a neat deal when stones are overturned for diamonds in the rough. But that’s not something on which to pin your hopes for the future, especially on this level of play.

            OSU coaches watched Adams in high school a lot, btw. They referred Burton at PSU to him, but he chose EWU. Imagine how good PSU would have been with Adams leading the way there. We’d have people spamming about Nigel on here instead of Beau.

      • Good considerations on the wait and see how he does with another QB. Looks like RFR, FR on the roster, not sure who they have in the next recruiting class.

      • Where is your proof that Smith is unready, or are you just spreading that as a rumor?
        How do you know who Petersen “is”, and whether he trusted his QBs?
        What is your source on the quantity of details explained to his kids?
        Your narrative on Smith growing with Browning is unsubstantiated.

        See how much fun it is to have a consummate contrarian on a sports blog, where people are just shooting the shit?

        • That’s not being contrarian. I clearly said I was opining, and I gave an analogy of someone who has said those very things on a much higher level.

          If you want, you can use the google machine and probably find a lot of info unbeknownst to me at this moment that will support what I’ve opined. I do know that if you look up the definition of opine, it does not include definitive statements, as you allege.

        • I do believe Petersen wouldn’t be the coach he is today if Wilcox didn’t beg him to offer Moore a ship. And I would hazard a guess that he would agree. If you remember the Boise O before that, it was situational but relied a lot on a basic ground game.

          Moore was basically a coach on the field, allowing Petersen the luxury of focusing on other parts of his team.

          Speaking of Wilcox, why hasn’t anyone suggested we poach him?

          • pay raise… lower cost of living… 30 miles from home, but not the stress of trying to be successful at the alma mater.

            I’m not saying I want him. But I’m surprised nobody thinks of him as available.

    • He’s been coaching for 16 years, what is your basis for him not being ready now but he will be great later? Other than him not being 45-50 years old?

      If he will be a disaster now, he will likely be a disaster in another 5 or 10 years too. He has plenty of experience.

      • Because he’s only been a P5 coordinator for 3.5 years. He’s lucky enough to have Petersen as a head, or he doesn’t get to coach Browning. But he’s also guided Jake through a developmental frosh season to better soph and junior seasons. If he can complete that development and transition to the next seasmlessly, we’ll know he’s arrived as a coach. But until he does, he’s a partial head coach candidate who will most likely only partially succeed.

        • Weird never knew 5 years as a coordinator was the rule. I mean, every successful head coach must have had that right? Couldn’t possibly find any with less? Right?

          • It’s not a rule. If you come into a position, and your side is lights out from day one, you watch year two to see if was an anomaly due to personnel. If you’re building a coach from the ground up like Petersen is with Smith, you have to go through a couple years of struggle to get to the point where you can teach someone how to sustain success. Obviously, personnel has something to do with his current success. So waiting to see if he can sustain that level would be the conservative thing to do.

            Someone will fly by the seat of their pants and try to hire him. I suspect he would tell anyone who asked that he’s just not yet ready.

          • And you need to give me a list of who you think are successful P5 head coaches.

            I would suspect the very best of them were likely coordinators for a long time before maybe becoming head coaches for a mid-major first.

            Chip Kelly is the only savant I can think of. Joe Moorhead is the only other who comes close, but I don’t see Penn State making Franklin the AD with a number written on a napkin just so they can promote Moorhead.

          • It doesn’t take long to find someone beyond Chip Kelly, try the guy that won the National Title last season; Swinney had been a coordinator for 6 games when Clemson made him their interim head coach. I’d consider him pretty successful.

          • And btw if you only consider national title winning coaches for the list you can still find more names than just Chip Kelly.

            Les Miles-3 years as OC before a P5 job
            Jimbo Fisher-10 years as OC but never a G5 job prior to a P5 job
            Gene Chizik-8 yeas as DC but never a G5 job prior to a P5 job
            Jim Tressel-Never a coordinator at any level, FCS HC job though
            Larry Coker-Plenty of years as an OC but never a G5 HC job
            Bob Stoops-7 years as a DC but never a G5 HC job
            Phillip Fulmer-4 years as an OC, never a G5 HC job
            Lloyd Carr-7 years as a DC, never a G5 HC job
            Steve Spurrier-3 years as an OC, jumped right to a pro job
            Tom Osborne-4 years as an OC, never a G5 HC job

            That is 11 coaches that won National titles since 1995 that went straight from coordinator to a P5 job with a G5 job along the way. Some with very little coordinator experience. And again, that is only guys who won a national title since 1995

            I have no idea if Smith will be a great HC but this idea that he needs to prove himself by being a coordinator for another few years then a HC at a G5 school is nonsense. Great coaches come from many backgrounds.

          • Hall’s situation is almost identical to Swinney’s, except that he inherits some lousy coordinators and a losing record.

            I never said he needed to prove himself at a mid-major. I just supposed many successful head coaches did more than 4 years of coordinating before taking over a P5 job. I threw in the maybe they were mid-major. You did the homework then said I said something different.

            No Biggie. Good info for the most part.

            So we look at the coaches who were not coordinators for the arbitrary number of five years you’ve chosen to contend. How many of them were stars in their first head gigs? How many of them took over at the school at which they were coordinators? How many are we left with now? How many do we have from the last decade?

            You can probably grumble about that last question, but it really isn’t the same game it was 20 years ago. But I like similarities for fun. It looks like many coaches weren’t major successes until many years of coordinating then taking over the teams they coordinated.

            And I wouldn’t include Chizik in future discussions. He sucks.

            I think Tressel is interesting. He won a lot of championships before moving up. It’s probably good we don’t discount pay-for-play coaches.

          • While you see, I just used national championship coaches because it was easy.

            Here is the list of current G5 coaches who’ve been at the same school for 4+ years and have had success (above .500 with the exception of 1 guy). I don’t think it matters if they were OC/DC at that school prior or not so I didn’t list that. The point remains, good coaches come from all kinds of backgrounds.

            Big 12
            Mike Gundy-Oklahoma State
            Dana Holgorsen-West Virginia
            Kliff Kingsbury-Texas Tech (1 game under .500)

            Big Ten
            Kirk Ferentz-Iowa
            Pat Fitzgerald-Northwestern

            ACC
            Dabo Swiney-Clemson
            Jimbo Fisher-Florida State

            SEC
            Dan Mullen-Mississippi State

            That is the list of current guys who have been at their school at least 5 years who hadn’t been a HC at another FBS school prior. But that isn’t really even the point, great coaches come from all kinds of backgrounds. What exactly about Smith’s background eliminates him for you?

            Again, I don’t know him nor do I claim to know that he would be great but his resume doesn’t scare me away. He should be in the conversation.

          • Dan Mullen is probably the best comp to Smith.

            Worked under a good to great head coach for years, finally got promoted to OC for the last few years. Got hired to be head coach at a school within the conference he was currently OC at (Florida under Meyer to Mississippi State).

            I’d gladly take a Dan Mullen at Mississippi State level of success at Oregon State. He isn’t winning national titles but his team is competitive in the SEC West year in and year out with one season where they managed to make a New Years Bowl. That is what I expect from an OSU coach.

            If I as AD believed Jonathan Smith could do that he’d be at the top of my list.

          • You’re wandering far away from your arbitrary number o five seasons as coordinator. I pointed out what Smith needed to prove himself. You took that to mean I meant all coaches needed to be coordinators for at least five years. I said you would find a lot of successful coaches were coordinators for a long while and maybe mid-major heads afterwards. You gave good info showing that championship coaches do not follow that maybe… then you drive it into the dirt, stop, dig a hole and drive it deeper.

            Jonathan Smith isn’t ready or a head gig at a P5 school. He could likely ruin his whole career if he ended up doing anything besides take over for Petersen in an emergency, according to your research.

            You seem upset about some simple things. Why don’t you make the case for Smith instead of nit-picking arbitrary numbers you pull out of the ether?

          • Nope, not upset. I find the “he’s not ready because I say he isn’t ready” mantra ridiculous.

            Why isn’t he ready? Be specific.

            Nothing about “my research” indicates he couldn’t be successful right now at a P5 school.

            Again, Dan Mullen is an almost perfect comp and he has been plenty successful. Smith actually has a better resume than Mullen had when Mississippi State hired him.

            The reality is that you have no idea if Smith is ready (and neither do I). At least I can admit it what I don’t know.

            I will contend that if he isn’t ready now, he likely will never be ready. If you haven’t learned enough in 16 years to be a HC another 2, 5, or 20 years won’t make a difference. And I frankly don’t buy the nonsense ‘prove it at a G5 school’ stuff, just because that is where most coaches get their first gig doesn’t mean its a needed step. But of course I can’t prove a negative so you get to keep saying “he isn’t ready” even though in reality you have no idea if he is ready or not.

          • Oh and I did make a case for Smith, its at the top of this thread, why don’t you make an actual case against Smith beyond “he isn’t ready”

          • You didn’t make a case for him. You listed his resume with some embellishments. Then you said if he hired really good assistants he will have winning seasons at OSU.

            Poof!

            You complain about me just saying he isn’t ready for reasons I’ve said but you ignore. You then point to something you are now complaining about as support for why you’re complaining about the same thing.

            Dan Mullen showed progress with three different QBs over the six years prior to getting a head gig. Once is great. Twice is a pattern. Three times with two national championships with the latter two, respectively, is a damn sight better than Smith’s one QB who committed to UW because of his head coach, not his success.

            I said Smith needs to show progress with another QB, not just Browning. You chose five years for whatever reason as your arbitrary number. I would rather see six years out of him because I don’t really see him doing much with the QB who holds a lot of national high school records. I opined that Smith is probably learning more from Browning than he’s teaching him… as I suspect happened with Petersen and Moore (also Harsin).

            So what, precisely, is Smith’s resume besides being present when a great QB plays for a great head coach? Has he replicated success with different personnel?

          • While I guess if you are gonna give Mullen credit for QB play but not give Smith any credit you are right. Can’t argue that logic. Smith is learning from his QB but the QBs learned from Mullen.

            You win. I concede. Can’t beat that logic.

            Either way, if he ain’t ready now, he won’t be ready in 2 more years which is a fair argument but if you suddenly think he is ready in 2 years you are lying to yourself. 16 years was enough. Either he is ready now or he will never be ready.

          • FYI, every coach needs to hire good assistants, I’d argue that is what makes one coach more successful than another, their ability to identify quality assistants.

          • You are right about one thing. He could be a successful head coach right now, defying all the numbers.

            I just like to let the numbers help evaluate coaches first, and Smith doesn’t have many positive ones. I don’t care about rah rah feel good fluff stuff like where they went to school. I care that they show progress then sustained success while learning their profession. Smith just started the progress phase.

          • Yes, if you only consider what he did at UW.

            And developed Nathan Enderle into a 5th round pick while at the University of Idaho. Or was he just granted Enderle and learned from him?

            He developed a University of Montana kid into a player who was good enough to get them to the semifinals in his first year as a starting QB and an opportunity in the CFL.

            Smith isn’t in the “progress phase”; he is in the finishing phase. I get it, you want to discount everything till he was at UW and want to give others all the credit even while there but the reality is that Smith as a QB coach developed a 2 star kid from Nebraska into a QB that NFL teams deemed worthy of paying money too. You can’t simply discount that. And he was his QB coach for his entire career at Idaho.

          • While I guess if you are gonna give Mullen credit for QB play but not give Smith any credit you are right. Can’t argue that logic. Smith is learning from his QB but the QBs learned from Mullen.

            Seriously?

            You’re just going to ignore the part about Mullen replicating success with two QBs beyond his first one, leading them to national championships?

            Of course he learned from his first QB. He also learned from his second and third. But he had more salient advice to give the latter two after already learning quite a but from the first.

            Smith is on his first, unless you think Joe Southwick was one of the greats.

            If you want to play the straw man game, I can do that. After all, it was you who said Smith is as good a coach as Petersen is.

          • So you don’t read my posts? Got it.

            Smith is not on his first, again, he developed a 2 star kid from Nebraska into a player that was a 5th round pick in the NFL while at the University of Idaho. He was the QB coach for the whole kids career while 3 different HC’s were there. The common denominator was Smith and the kid went from a 2 star to a 5th round pick (and won a Bowl game at Idaho).

            But you choose to ignore that player I guess.

          • Not claiming him as “great” although few QBs get drafted so yeah he is probably pretty damn good.

            But the impressive thing is Smith developed a lightly recruited player 2 star kid from Nebraska into an NFL draft pick while working under 3 different head coaches. That is impressive. I’d argue at least as impressive (if not more impressive) than taking a highly touted kid and developing them into a great QB.

          • It looks like Enderle has just outstanding numbers for the three seasons Smith was his QB coach. Redshirted in 2006 with DE as the head. Robb Akey took over from there and was the only constant during his playing years, since Smith moved on after his junior year and made Southwick a great QB instead.

            You really have to actually read what you’re not linking. At least I know I’m not the only one whose writing you mangle into something weird.

      • You are right, I had Smith still at Idaho in 2010 from some reason. I can admit I was wrong. He still developed the kid.

        Either way, I’m done. Again, Smith isn’t even my top choice I just think its ridiculous to claim he is just now learning how to coach. He’d been doing it for 16 years. And just because every QB he coached wasn’t an All-American doesn’t mean he didn’t do a good job coaching them, its all relative. If he isn’t ready now (and he may not be) he won’t be ready in 2, 5, or 20 years. I absolutely stand by that opinion.

        • Why would you stand by that? What if Petersen makes him the AHD/OC/QB next year? Wouldn’t that tell you someone who might know a thing or two thinks he’s just about ready to be a head man?

          The numbers on Smith right now say the overwhelmingly most likely place he’ll be a successful head is where he is, taking over for Petersen in an emergency. There’s nothing of note other than these past two years that disprove that. Showing that he is able to transfer the success of his system to new personnel would be all that I ask for evidence.

          Call that ridiculous if you want. You put some good numbers out there. See if you can divine something for Smith. Enderle is decent, even if I don’t know who he is.

          • I’m not trying to “divine” anything. I just disagree that the numbers on Smith say he can only be successful at UW.

            You expect me to prove a negative, that is impossible. Smith has developed QBs at Idaho, Montana, Boise State, and Washington. Smith has been the offensive coordinator of offenses that have made it to the semi-finals of both the FCS and FBS playoffs.

            He has transferred his success to new personnel, you seem to not take the success Montana into account.

            Rather Petersen makes him AHC or not doesn’t tell me anything. Plenty of guys are “ready” before they get the Assistant Head Coach title and guys that aren’t potential head coaches get that title. Bob Gregory has that title at UW; That title can mean all kinds of different things but it certainly has no bearing on rather or not the guy is ready to be a HC.

          • AHC means Petersen wants to keep him for stability, and he’s in demand. If he’s not in demand, he’s not deemed ready by anyone.

            I disregard FCS legacies because it’s not even mid-major football. It’s fun to watch because it’s just kids having fun playing a game. But I don’t pretend ten good tweeners don’t win a ton of games on that level. Ten good tweeners plus a couple diamonds in the rough masked Pflugrad’s failure as a human. You want me to glean anything beyond that?

            I am a little amused at what you think development is. I would say it’s getting your group to win on any given day. You would say it’s being present for a QB who could maybe get drafted? Your definition of replicable success worries me, because I know a lot of people who artificially set the bar that low just so they can smile at the neat deal Jonathan Smith would be.

            You’ve gone so far as to conflate Alex Smith, Chris Leak, Tim Tebow, a Heisman and two national championships with Nathan Enderle, Joe Southwick, Jake Browning and a conference championship, just to prove your point.

            If those numbers make sense to you, so be it. I tried.

          • See, that is the difference.

            You see it as getting a player who could be drafted like he is gifted that player.

            I view it as seeing potential, recruiting said player, and developing said player into a player that can get drafted. Finding those players and developing those players leads to winning on any given day.

            I am not conflating anything but I am not discounting player development as the role of a quality coach, you seem to be. Developing a 2 star talent into a draft able QB and leader of a team that gets Idaho to a Bowl game demonstrates his ability as a coach. It just does. You disagree.

            He wasn’t simply “present” for a QB that got drafted, without Smith as his QB coach how do you know he would have developed into a player that got drafted? Nothing about his recruitment indicated he was on an NFL trajectory. Why does Smith get no credit for developing him in your eyes?

          • I also think you are wrong about what an AHC is unless you honestly believe Bob Gregory is in demand. Because if you are; you are wrong. Gregory isn’t even the most likely defensive coach at UW to get a head coaching job.

            He is the AHC because he has experience, has been a head coach (interim basis) and can help Petersen in that role. It has NOTHING to do with being in demand for a head coaching position. No one is hiring Gregory to be their head coach next season (or ever honestly) yet he is the guy Petersen gave that title too.

  39. OT: Just for fun…..From SB Nation. Nice dig at Harbough.
    “Michigan gave up a 42 spot and got clobbered at Penn State on Saturday. The Wolverines fell into a tie with Rutgers for fourth place in the Big Ten East as we near the end of October. But it’s fine, because UM can claim undisputed possession of fourth place if it manages to beat the Scarlet Knights next week.”

      • So you were fine with the NCAA sanctioning them because they abused the auspices of NCAA membership (and revenues derived from it) to first commit then cover up these crimes?

        I honestly can’t remember who it was, but there were some who thought the NCAA had no right to sanction the Nittany Liars because of some contorted sense that crimes don’t count as violations. That’s why the NCAA shortened their original sanctions.

        • On the one hand, I can see the point that what occurred is so far beyond any pay for play or even academic scandal, that the NCAA should not even try and tread in those waters. On the other, if there was ever a reason to hand down a death penalty, this was it. Naturally, the NCAA managed to bungle it up and implicitly judge that cover-ups of juvenile sexual assault is somewhat less severe than Reggie Bush’s parents getting a home.

      • It really is amazing how far they have come back. It’s literally the worst possible thing to happen to a university/athlete program yet there they are sitting at #2 in the nation. You’re right, if that happened to OSU, football would have been shuttered.

        • I don’t know. Baylor was pretty bad too. But what happened with everyone whining about the NCAA meddling with Penn St caused barely a ripple in Whacko.

          Maybe the NCAA goes after them too?

          • The NCAA spends most of its time and resources coming up with reasons why they can’t enforce punishments to college sports teams. It’s like they realized that if they appropriately punished all of the teams that deserved it, those sports would die off, then the NCAA wouldn’t be needed anymore.

          • The old Jerry Tarkanian guote, “the NCAA is so mad at Kentucky, they are going to give Cleveland State another year of probation” rings more true every year.

  40. OT – Petras last weekend with the Gum Chewer lurking:

    “Last week, in a 55-6 drubbing of host Redwood of Larkspur, and with Nebraska head coach Mike Riley watching from the sidelines, Petras was 22 of 35 for 412 yards and four TDs in three quarters of work. He also rushed for 58 yards on seven carries with two more scores. The only bummer is he threw his first interception of the season.

    So far, in a season where Marin Catholic has had two games cancelled due to a heat warning by the Marin County Health Department and poor air quality due to the nearby fires, Petras still has outstanding numbers for the 7-0 Wildcats. He’s 112 of 158 (70.9-percent) for 2,175 yards and 26 TDs with the one pick for a stratospheric 150.18 QB rating, and he’s almost always out of the game by the fourth quarter. Petras has also rushed for 182 yards and six scores.”

    I suspect an OSU coach would have been there for a bye week(?), but no mention of anyone.

    • I think that article pretty much tells us why there’s not much to argue about. Until the people who are upset about it on either side also start talking about the disrespect given the flag by putting it on helmets, they’re all grandstanding hypocrites.

      • I always thought the use of the national anthem at pro sports events had a weak civic or patriotic tie. Yes, most pro sports facilities are municipal/civic facilities and resources, but that’s about it. The leagues are for-profit ventures. They are not fielding teams out of some patriotic urge. So why the national anthem?

        Many team ownership groups align or realign themselves with municipalities that give them the best stadium deal and threaten to leave for better deals elsewhere. There are a few exceptions with some more significant ownership contributions to the facilities capital and O&M costs, but there’s no motive there to confuse with patriotism.

        • Several owners also have day jobs that earned them the money to pay for an NFL team. What they lobby for is not usually good for the places where many of their players come from, causing the very situation they wish would not occur with their teams.

          They’re a small cross-section of the economics of selfishness that naturally leads to… well… selfishness. But it’s still funny to watch.

          Nice call on the stadium extortion scam. There will never be another pro sports organizational structure like the Green Bay Packers.

          Will there be?

    • A simple way to improve the national anthem would be to mandate that it’s never sung without background instrumental, like most sports games do these days, which is one of the biggest reasons why it sounds so weak. Too many artists are allowed to play around and re-interpret our national anthem, and it ends up weakening its power as a whole.

      Also, no solo singing. Have a choir sing it at minimum. Ideally though, everyone in the stadium should be singing along and adding to the power instead of just sitting silently with their hands over their hearts.

      Something like the below, but with background instrumental:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxxVlRg3TrQ

  41. Has anybody talked about Mike Sanford Jr as a potential candidate? My buddy tells me his name is being talked about on the paid sites because he is rumored to be interested in the job at Oregon State. Young guy, OC experience(Notre Dame, Boise St), HC experience(WK), position coach experience (Stanford), coach’s son and actually wants to be here. Seems to check off all of the boxes except for maybe he’s a bit of an unknown and is only 35.
    Has he been brought up here already? I have to admit, I’m just starting to catxh up on the coaching search talk, but so far I’m team Beau, I think.

    • He looks to be a bit inexperienced to run the program. Meaning he wouldn’t be able to get experienced recruiters to come work for him. Needs to make a few more rounds in the coaching world before being considered for a power 5 job. Also he hasn’t been a hc for more than a year too. Need to see more results.

      And of course he’d want the job. It’s a big payday but he’d be in over his head here.

  42. So do we have a consensus Angrybeavs top 4 candidates at this point?
    Reply to this post with who you think are the top 4 for this site and I’ll put together a scientific poll for Scott Barnes to make his final decision from.

    • From the discussion I’ve seen:
      Beau Baldwin (does anyone other than his agent want him?)
      Ken Niumatololo
      Corey Hall

      Number 4 is hard to pin down. I haven’t seen Grinch mentioned lately. There seem to be a few people who like each of Babers, Bloomgren, and Norvell. Smith gets mentioned a lot, but no one really seems to want
      Him. I’d go with Bloomgren because we need someone to represent the young coordinator category, and I haven’t seen any arguments against him, despite Jack and I bringing him up several times.

      • Ok, I’ll go with 2 groups of 4.
        1. Hall
        2. Baldwin
        3. Niumatalolo
        4. Grinch
        5. Bloomgren
        6. Smith
        7. Babers
        8. Norvell

        Something tells me we will end up with none of the above

        • I would eliminate the top 4 mentioned on this site and then dig deeper for the right guy.
          Beau, J. Smith, Hall and Kenny in the Navy should be axed from the poll.

    • 1. Bronco Mendenhall (No idea what his buyout at Virginny is. Might not even be realistic anyways. His current salary is 3.4 mil)
      2. Ken Nuimatololo (probably fucked up his last name)
      3. Troy Calhoun
      4. Beau Baldwin maybe (i’m only lukewarm on this)

      • I hope if we are paying a search firm up to $200k, that these are the kind of guys they are talking to. You don’t need a search firm for Beau Baldwin, Jonathon Smith or Cory Hall. Frost probably doesn’t have interest but I expect the search firm to at least gauge his interest. Who knows, maybe his wife is homesick.

  43. Charlie Strong was horrible at Texas but you think he can succeed at Oregon State??
    That makes No Sense to me.

    With you on Frost but Beavs would have to be uber aggressive. Chad Morris is underrated currently at SMU but has upside. Norvell would for the most part compete and has some Western ties. Navy guy is older than ideal but would also compete in league. Baldwin would make OSU competitive and is more age appropriate for what program needs. Smith would be easy to rally behind if he won enough but first couple years could be a grind for him. Hall needs to keep giving everything he’s got and with some wins can earn consideration.

    • Strong is a good coach, all Texas d1 schools have an unrealistic expectation of their football teams. Sumlins in the same boat, good coach, hobbled by bureaucracy.

    • Strong has also been fantastic at both UL and USF.

      Texas is not a place where you get to manage the program your own way. And I think we’re much more comparable to his successful stops than to Texas.

  44. Bo Pelini HC
    Cory Hall DC
    Dave Baldwin OC

    That’s a solid coaching staff. We need guys with fire and passion.

    • Do not want Dave Baldwin as OC. Only want Hall to stay on staff if possible. New coach 99% of the time is going to insist on his own coordinators. .00001 chance that both our DC and OC next year will be current staff members. Could deal with Lockette staying if next coach wanted him as RB coach.

  45. Carson Shuman, offensive lineman, from Helena Capital will go to WSU as a preferred walk-on, choosing that over scholarship offers at lower division schools. Tells me that WSU looks at players outside their recruiting comfort zone and takes some chances, whereas GA seemed to spend a lot of time offering 4* players he had little chance of signing (unless their academics were in disarray).

    BTW, where is Craig Evans?

    • GA’s gone.

      He quit.

      What’s your point? We need to offer more walk-on positions to obscure linemen from Montana? Do we need to be searching in the sun for another overload?

  46. Just read that OSU was the only P5 school to offer Nall a scholarship. Wow.

    Was he THAT underestimated, or was he such an early, solid commitment to OSU that he didn’t invite or receive other offers?

    • The recruiting services had him listed as a TE/LB. I think Riley wanted him as a TE.

      He was an August commit, so not THAT early, but I think I remember him being pretty firm at the time.

      No one recruited him as a RB, though. He doesn’t fit the template, and he didn’t have a blazing fast 40 time to compensate for it. It sounds superficial, but how many tall white RB’s are there right now in P5 football?

  47. Matt Moore, gunslinger?!?

    “Moore embraces his “gunslinger” reputation. He embraces the term in a positive way as someone willing to take chances within the confines of the system, not a quarterback who goes rogue.

    “It’s not a bad term. I’m fine with that.” Moore told reporters Wednesday. “I like to think of it as somebody who goes out and competes and throws the ball around. That’s what it means to me.”

    Just a point that the term means different things to different people, including the QBs themselves. Their meaning, and how the term applied to them by others can be different things.

    In 2005, Moore threw 19 INTS against 11 TDs, including an incredible 6 INTS in one game against AZ. I remember Riley claimed he did “more research” on former UCLA QB Moore than any QB recruit at that time. Like most QB’s inexperienced in Riley’s system, he threw a lot of INTS.

    But his second year was very effective and was a blast. My pick for the best modern era Beaver QB.

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