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Washington State Post Game Thoughts

215

Well, I had 31-28 Cougs…saw this coming.

But I didn’t see how. With the past few games Smith seemed to be out of the way. He’s back in the way of his own team.

As I wrote on Twitter: 9th loss in the @Coach_Smith era that’s directly on Smith for not punting (twice this game) on 4th down. Something that doesn’t show up in the probabilities is how demoralizing that is for a team, fatigue on the D, etc. All came home to roost. #GoBeavs

At this point, we have to assume this is a programming flaw in his brain. He doesn’t understand it’s not just the odds that a sheet of paper shows, but it’s game flow, fatigue, morale, etc. We’re also, frankly, not very good at making it. So whatever the probabilities say, we’re not there in his tenure.

The time to win the game was early in the game, on the very boring, pedantic punts that would have kept the defense fresh. Yeah, they aren’t sexy, but they’re 45 yard swings that keep you in games until you get better opportunities later to score. A punt is simply an admittance that “this is not the best opportunity for my team to score,” which is FINE. If it’s not a great opportunity to score, then ripping off 45 yards on a punt increases the odds of a win.

Again, Smith will never realize this. Smith apologists will never admit his in-game 4th down management smells like a gorilla’s ass, but it is what it is, and over time the truth as always will win out. Smith has done a great job building the program, but he officially has a win cap due to his 4th down liabilities. Personally I’d love to see someone who is mentally stable and understands risk management inherit what Smith built. I know we’re not at that point, so all I can do is point out the obvious until people are willing to admit it to themselves, then come around.

215 COMMENTS

  1. 3
    1

    Still, my question is who is doing the analytics for the Beavs. They have a sheet with a distance and down and it tells them to go for it or not. Like I said, i don’t know who’s idea that was but they need to give that up. You got to feel the game, in a tight back and forth game, you can’t make blunders.

    • I feel like the analytics are taking over common sense…not just for the football team but also saw this in the baseball team too. Common sense says you don’t give the ball up on the 50…much less 2x. Not to mention, what stat says your odds are better to have the punter throw the ball 40 yds than pinning them inside the 20 or even keeping the offense out to try? Analytics have their place but I think our guys rely too heavily on them and it unfortunately results in some L’s that should’ve been W’s.

      • 1
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        Anyone every watch the Clint Eastwood movie, “Can’t hit the curve”? The team who picked the player up due to analytics regretted their decision when the batter faced a real pitcher.

  2. 3
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    Today was the first all season Washington has scored more than 23 points in a game against FBS competition and they scored 28 in the second half. Fire Tibesar for the love of god

      • 1
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        Unfortunately this is the MO of Tibs throughout his time here. This game is obviously glaring example of his shitty game planning and inability to make adjustments but there are more than these issues with him that haven’t changed during his tenure.

        • 4
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          The gameplan was to stop Borghi and keep de Laura from running all over the field. We did that. We actually did a decent job of stopping McIntosh as well, so that’s actually a plus. It’s the offense that lost us the game, not defense.

          Until we upgrade the secondary and get elite DB’s, we’re not going to stop Wazzu’s pass game. It’s simply just not possible. Why else does Washington beat them every year?

          • 2
            1

            We didn’t stop Laura from running, we had no pass rush so there was no reason for him to scramble. Hard to win games when you give up around 500 yds. Unfortunately we don’t constantly land elite DBs so I guess we’ll just be happy taking the “L”? Or should the DC maybe scheme to get pressure to help our DBs out? They were 10/16 on 3rd down and about 6 inches short of 11/16. Plenty of things could’ve been done differently but we can’t pretend that this was a good defensive game and game plan. He made zero defensive adjustments.

  3. 4
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    I go back to the fact that Smith wants the attention on himself. He has to do something to put the spot light on him. He is a ex qb who wants
    the lime light. He can’t just coach a grind it out game, he has to make sure his name is in the headlines.

    • 3
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      I actually think there’s a lot of truth to that sentiment, but also notice how the run is working yet the team forces the pass…I know Lindgren makes the call, but I wonder if he knows Smith wants that, or Smith hired a guy he knew had a passing tendency. Seems we run best, yet the coaches want to pass best.

  4. 10
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    Lindgren underutilizes the talent at the WR position, and ruins any chance of getting Nolan into some kind of rhythm. Where are the quick crossing routes? Screens? Slants? Out routes? Short curls? Why is Champ Flemings running a route resembling that of Tyreek Hill in the Super Bowl?

  5. 5
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    Almost 400 pass yards. What happened to the secondary. And for god sake punt the damn ball. This is part of the reason they lost the Purdue game.

  6. The problem isn’t necessarily the 4th down attempt itself, it’s the playcalls we have for them. Flea flicker against Purdue on 4th and 1. And then today, a play action throw 15 yards down the field and a fake punt where your punter throws it 10x farther than he should ever be throwing a pass.

    I could see it coming early in the game. We didn’t commit to the run, but instead insisted on passing the ball. I think the 3 games prior to last week made most of us believe Nolan was something that he wasn’t. He’s a game manager who can run a little bit. He’s not a pocket passer at all. Then, when we start to run the ball well, it’s in the 2nd half when our defense is exhausted and then we end up scoring too quickly and getting them back on the field. Both of those back shoulder throws to Champ were impressive, but I don’t understand with all the WR talent we have why a very low % throw to our smallest guy is the best option.

    What were we doing on that final drive. First down at the 14 with two timeouts left and we’re throwing? Why? Even if you complete a pass and score, WSU gets the ball back with a minute left and would almost certainly go score. So what’s the benefit? Run the ball and at worse you just have no gain, reset and try again. Passing was the last thing we should he doing in that situation. We handled that whole last sequence like there was 20 seconds left, not 80.

    I’m not surprised by the defensive effort. Felt like I was watching Mike Leach’s offense again. I’m curious how many times we actually blitzed today. Absolutely zero pressure because we drop 7-8 in coverage every play but receivers are still wide open. We concede 2-5 yards every play on those underneath throws and that’s exactly what they want us to do. They only threw deep down the field maybe twice all day. Borghi is one of their best weapons and they didn’t even need to get him involved that’s how easy it was. The INT in the redzone was the game changer. We might win a back and forth shootout if we get in there and go up 17-10.

    It was a fun few weeks enjoying the success and dreaming about where this team could end up. I think I personally just wanted to believe they were better than they actually are. Cool, we end a streak and beat Washington last week. But then all that progress seemingly goes to waste with a terrible loss here today. Good timing for a bye, we need to regroup and figure out who we are. We knew who we were the last couple of weeks, we didn’t today.

    We’ll beat Cal and Colorado. Get to a bowl. But that’s going to be all the wins we get unless we figure out how to fix the glaring holes in this team and philosophy.

    • 2
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      I think Tibs made it an emphasis to lock onto Borghi for the gameplan. The defense did a pretty good job of doing that; he’s burned the Beavers numerous times in previous games. We also had a spy on de Laura, which was smart. He did not run the ball at all this game. Kudos to Tibs for successfully locking those two down.

      With emphasis on those two things, it puts the defense in an awkward position because they either have to run man or some sort of man coverage. That’s bad news because we are at a terrible disadvantage against their WR’s. Washington beats Wazzu every year because they have the personnel to do that. We don’t.

      Overall, it’s just a bad matchup for OSU on defense. It always has been. That’s why Wazzu recruits the players that they have. The times we’ve come close are those that we have stellar corners.

      • He only has 75 rushing yards all season. I don’t really mind a scramble every so often, it happens. But why spy when he isn’t even looking to run? Again, we’re just doing what want us to do.

      • 1
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        I think he took getting Borghi out of the game plan too seriously and was oblivious of the 400 yds they torched us with in the 2nd half. Couldn’t adjust to wildcat last week and lucky for us UW decided to go away from what was working for them. Tibs ain’t it. He should go back to coaching LBs somewhere. He’s constantly out schemed. Not able to make adjustments. Can’t stop a 3rd and long if his life depended on it. Dialed up exactly zero pressure. Lauria didn’t have to scramble this game as there was no need to. He had clean pockets all day so the spy becomes worthless. Good position coach, should go back to doing what he was good at.

        • 1
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          You can only adjust your defense so much before the massive mismatches between our secondary and their receiving corps is completely exploited. That is what happened today.

          We don’t have the DBs to seriously challenge Wazzu’s passing game. We haven’t since the Riley years. Not much you can really do once the other team figures out how to run the ball.

        • So you’re saying the only option was to outscore them? The Beavs should have scored more than 24 points with pushing 500 yards of offense. Turnovers and the dumb fake punt were enough to turn the game in favor of Wazzu.

          • Oh absolutely. If we had been up 21 right after halftime, we would have made them pass on every down.

            Instead, in a 7 point ballgame, Rolo decides to run the ball against a team that was adjusted for defending the pass.

    • 3
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      Usually hate to see a bye after a loss but you may be right. There’ll be no talk of rankings and such, no interviews with national media; I think this staff will get these guys heads right.

      Who all will be back from injury after the bye? McCarten, Hodgins, Levengood (hated to see him go out today), Oladapo, and dare I say Gebbia?

      Beavs will beat more than just “Cal and Colorado” to finish the season.

  7. 12

    The coaching staff needs to fuck itself for what they did to their players with moronic fucking calls.

    Smith has the same folksy exterior, megalomaniac ego interior.

    The pain of supporting the Beavs continues…forever I’m sure.

  8. 11

    Reminded me of one of those Riley games where it felt like they were inventing new ways to lose. Let WSU dictate the game and just one goof after another (coaches included).

  9. 12

    It pisses me off that the feel-good story ends with a fucking self-inflicted loss to a mediocre WSU team. Lose to ASU or the Quacks, yeah ok. It would be nice to get beyond this shit. Now I’m having to hope, they beat Colorado and California to get to a bowl game, the rest, who the hell knows after today.

  10. 11
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    What pisses me off is we had a shot at a magical season. That’s obviously extremely rare for OSU. Something every 20 to 30 years, historically, so to throw it out the window with reckless coaching decisions pisses me off. It’s one thing to get beat, and it’s another to beat yourself. Latter is harder to take. And Smith keeps making fans deal with that type of loss.

    • 2
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      Pump the brakes. We were many many things going our way from a magical season. Still many Ross up games left. Could easily be 1-2 in conference play.

  11. The Beavs receivers and secondary looked “previous season” slow today too. Receivers weren’t getting much separation and defensive backs could not cover short routes. I’m assuming they didn’t get slower overnight, so it must have been play-calling and defensive schemes. Wazzu can’t have that much more team speed.

  12. So Ron Callan asked around about the no PI call on the fake punt. Turns out, by rule they cant call a PI on a fake punt/pass play.
    And Smith confirmed that and knew it going into that play call. Makes that an even more risky play. Smart of WSU to just ride the receiver out of the way.
    Sucks because that gifted them a TD

  13. 13

    Nolan’s been brutal these last (2) games. If this is how he played in camp, it makes sense why the coaches went with Noyer game 1…

      • 1
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        It’s tough to have a good passing game when you throw with two TE, Flemings who has a small window to complete and slow developing plays. Harrison and Gould get open use them. How bout bubble screens with Tongue blocking, worked for 5 yards on the first play of and never went back. How bout quick slants to let Nolan get rhythm. USC he had rhythm and smart passing plays and not so much the last two weeks. With that dominate running game passing should be much easier. I don’t think it is necessarily on Nolan

    • I’ve seen enough sample of Nolan. The USC game was impressive, but I hope Gebbia doesn’t transfer and gets a fair shake next season (if he can recover). He seems to be a much more polished QB and he was not unathletic before the injury.

    • You have to ask if he can consisently compete against PAC talent. I suggested early on that if after WSU, he wasn’t consistent, the BYE week might be the time to replace him with Gebbia if Gebbia is healthy and can move.

  14. 12

    I was okay with 4th down play call. Worked well against USC

    Fake punt not a good call

    Blaming this on Smith seems like just getting stuck on a personal narrative that is actually very shortsighted.

    The actually play calls were poor, and especially the final drive. I saw much more concerns on Lindgren with play calls today.

    Also 4 straight touchdown drives to WSU with ease? How is this also NOT on the defense or tibesar? That was tough to watch. You can’t win games giving up 28 points straight in the second half. Shoot, even if they had punted it WSU would have likely driven it down

    Also Nolan and Musgrave really did not show up.

    To say Smith blew the game because of gambling, misses the other 90% of the issues above.

    • Fake punt worked. Officials all saw pass interference and wouldn’t throw the flag. WSU player knew he was fucked and intentionally interfered and got lucky they didn’t throw flag. Momentum changing non call but the defense let us down and we should have been more resilient

    • I do recall there was criticism of Lindgren when he was at CU; that while he was in general, productive as a coordinator, he was not solidly consistent.

      • 2
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        Could it be he’s trying to hard to scheme different game plans than what worked the last game so other teams don’t tee off on trying to stop our run game? If it is true Lindgren is over thinking and not realizing we have an elite run game, then he’s doing this team a disservice of trying to force the pass game on the team.

  15. 3
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    The Riverboat gambling will only get worse from here on out.
    We had pretty good game plans for the last 4 games and they total shit the bed today. Ridiculous and sad.

  16. 7
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    It’s not just the mistakes that hurt, it’s the kind of mistakes and the mindset and energy behind them. It felt like the coaches crafted a game-plan based on the belief system that they couldn’t beat WSU straight up with their strengths (OLine, BJ/Fenwick/Colletto). Every time that advantage tried to show and leverage itself, they ran away from it (no pun). Then stretched the analytics thin to justify more 4th down dreams, further sending the message to the team that says “hey guys we can’t win unless we pull this stuff off, we can’t run the ball if they put 8 in the box, etc”. Beavs are a better team. The players know it, JS knows it, Rolo knows it. Just a tough pill to swallow and still feel rosy about the staff.

    • 16

      The narrative has been how calm and cool Smith is, but that last drive seemed to be a shitload of panic. You’re 14 yards away, two timeouts, and over a minute to play with 300 yards rushing and you’re QB is taking deep drops with receivers who have not been able to get much separation and a line that hasn’t pass blocked much all night? I don’t get it?

  17. So just curious as I posted during final minutes of the game that had the beavers scored, I would have gone for 2 pointer and the win…the beavers wouldn’t have been able to stop WSU in OT and the beavers could have used fenwick and Colletto ad lead blocker. Am I wrong about a 2 pointer and do you think Smith would have opted for the 2point conversion?

    • I think normally I’d be fine taking it to OT but given how we got steamrolled in the 2nd half I think you probably need to go for it. What they call, who knows. Probably should be a run or at the very least some type of roll out to give the option to run if nothing open.

      • They hadn’t stopped Fenwick all day and with Colletto as lead blocker and a double TE set, you run the ball right down their throat…over. thinking it cost the beavers the game.

  18. All I’m going to say is we avg 8 yards a carry by our main backs and we don’t run the ball at all when it’s 1st down on their 15 with plenty of time. Terrible coaching. I give smith a d grade today. Back to the dumb moves. Thought he was over that.

    • Yep, that’s it in a nutshell. I guess averaging 8 yds a carry was just not effective enough. Smith and his boneheaded coaching decisions and staff cost this team a big win.

    • That was absurdly stupid with that much time, that distance, and Colleto/Fenwick/Baylor.

      Lindgren out-thinking himself, hope that was satisfying: “Ha! I gotcha! Waitaminnit….”

  19. 3
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    So ol’ Scratch Ticket Smith reared his ugly head again, eh? Damn.

    I was fishing up on the Wallowa River, and was able to pick up a radio station that carried a Cougars broadcast. When I checked in, the Beavers were up at the half, having held the Cougars to 3 points(!) in the first half.

    Later I check in, the announcers mention the Beavers are on their way to 300 yards rushing, and I think its going the way it needs to; run the ball, wear them down. Its tied and should go down to the wire.

    I missed the fake punt call. WTF. Seriously, you’ve held them to 3, and you’re near midfield, and you don’t punt?

    I picked up the game after it was over, and the announcers emphasized that WSU had its best 3rd down conversion rate of the season, the QB had the best passing day since Alex Gordon threw for over 600 yards against – you guessed it – the Beavers. They kept saying “8 straight over Oregon State,” and mentioned it to the players, who were unaware of the streak.

    I don’t know if Smith makes those 4th down calls, or how. I suspect he does. He needs to invite the input of Lindgren and Tisebar if he isn’t already and let them modify his calls. I’m guessing he out thought himself, thinking the 4th down quick kick against USC might set up WSU?

    And Tisebar needs to go after the season. This was WSU’s best offensive day of the season. Tisebar can’t handle third and long. The announcers asked what WSU saw in the second half that allowed them to start running the ball and scoring and the WSU coach said “A 4-1 alignment.” At least one WR had a career day against the Beavers, after NOT having them against non-conference opponents. WTF. Let’s see if Smith has the guts to replace the D coordinator.

    What the is going on with Nolan and the WRs? A learning curve, as opponents now have more and more film on him?

    Why can’t OSU receivers get separation these last two games? I may have overestimated their speed and talent. Though we clearly don’t have a “catch-anything-within-3 feet-of-me” Hodgins, I thought this corp had speed and depth and quicks to keep things moving. Maybe they’re just below average after all. Something to work on in recruiting.

    Now for the beavers to have a special season, they need others to choke away games. I can see Oregon losing 2 more at least.

    I hope Smith feels bad and it affects his approach on 4th downs in a meaningful way.

    • It’s not always about speedy receivers but running the routes correctly. Remember Mike Haas he certainly wasn’t speedy but ran great routes. Speed can help but it isn’t the end all key. I noted I’m Washington game that Nolan’s passes didnt have the same zip on it and kind of the same today. He only threw only one fairly deep ball today as I recall. I’m beginning to think he’s got either an issue with his arm.or shoulder.

  20. 2
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    I love that the OSU offense is run-oriented and entertaining, but it strikes me that havign 300 yards rushing and gaudy stats in a losing effort isn’t much different than Mannion throwing for a ton of yards in losing efforts/mediocre seasons.

    The QB, WRs and TEs have GOT to start producing for the production of the run game to end up meaning anything.

    4-2 with the following remaining:

    v. Utah;
    @ CA;
    @ CO;
    v. Stanford;
    v. ASU;
    @ Oregon.

    I see the talent to win four more, I see the coaching cap at 2 or 3 at best.

    • Needs to be a serious focus on the receiving game. They don’t look to be holding up their end of the deal.

      And not to go away from the run game, but that’s WAY too many drops.

      Does it look like maybe team’s have scouted Nolan’s weaknesses given more file, and he can’t “surprise” anyone now? Or is it just drops and a lack of continuity and consistency?

      • We don’t pass much. That magnifies every drop in importance to a drive. If you get your hands on it catch the damn ball. It kills drives, kills qb confidence, limits jump ball opportunities. Musgrave should be a jump ball demon and be able to draw one Pi a game. By my count he has 6 drops in 2 games.

        Bottom line we have passed 42 times in 2 games and had atleast 11 drops. There has also been 4 interceptions and I attribute 3 those to receivers due to tipped balls or not working their way to the ball. That means more than 25% of the throws were catchable and someone dropped it. That’s unacceptable on a team with this much depth in the receiving corps. Send a message, you drop it you sit.

  21. Utah looking solid. Not sure the Beavs team that played the last 2 weeks holds up but the one that played USC can. Would like to avoid 4th and go for its though but it seems to be in their contract to attempt a minimum of 2 regardless the time or field position.

  22. Hope the Beavs have learned that just because they’re supposed to win doesn’t mean they will. They need to play tough football. The coaching staff needs to coach instead of gamble.

    Fucking disappointment all around!

    • Frosty looked like he was about ready to cry as he walked across the field to shake Harbaugh’s hand. Another Martinez turnover did them in. Those poor bastards!

    • “It’s widely believed Rolovich is Catholic, and there is a fringe segment of that faith that has refused the vaccine on the grounds that it is derived from aborted fetuses — even though the Pope himself has endorsed receiving the vaccines, calling it “an act of love.””

  23. Oklahoma benched Rattler for missing throws and went to a (5*) freshman QB for a win over Texas.

    Smith has about 10 days to figure out if he needs to switch to Gebbia…or if the TE/WR group just needs to start catching the ball?

      • Radio today, as I recall, said Gebbia was dressed and stretching pre-game. Not saying they thought he’d play, just that he’s not on crutches and may be ready to begin practice during the bye, or in the lead up to Utah.

          • No he took a RE at Nebraska. Frankly we don’t really need him to redshirt. Our QB room is crowded with Vidlak and Gulbranson waiting in the wings. We also have Thockmorton coming in who was having a strong senior year before getting injured.

    • I think there’s been more than 11 drops in two games but even if it is 11 that means 26% of catchable balls were dropped. That’s a great way to lose games. We have huge depth at skill positions. You drop the ball you sit out the series. Unacceptable.

  24. 1
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    Really hope gebbia gets healthy. Still
    Toms of potential for this team. My personal opinion of Nolan is he can throw a nice deep ball, but he’s border line retarded. (Not being mean to anyone with disabled family/friends). I just think he is super slow at reading defenses.

    And with that, why the fuck do we play 27 receivers a game? I mean, get Harrison, beason and Gould out there for 90% of the offensive plays. That a Musgrave is probably the most overrated Beaver ever. He is a D at blocking and has he ever caught a tough catch? 3 years now and Mushrave is going to be awesome. He’s below average and relies on Teagan to carry the tight ends mantle.

    I like BJ, but tonight was Fenwick. Easy to see, hard for the staff appparently.

    On the positive bowl game, is still more than potential. On the negative, can we stop the “we play everyone, cool story” narrative. Also negative still lack the defensive line making plays. I personally like Shippen, and feel he is under utilized. Afraid for when Hodgins plays, and we have to deal with him being terrible, but he’s somehow our best defensive lineman narrarive

  25. 3
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    I’m going to be a negative Nancy and say we don’t win another game. They’ll all look exactly like this one going forward. a poorly designed final drive too short. We caught 2 average to below average teams with their pants down without realizing they are shells of their former selves. I kind of thought this would happen.

    • 1
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      Whoa, I think you’re overacting. This loss brings the team back to earth, back to serious work; they’ll do enough to overcome some coaching decisions and will win again. And all those who bet the over on 4.5 wins/season will collect.

    • USC and UW have recruited talent. You could argue they’re porky coached, but USC has a lot of highly ranked talent and UW has a very good secondary and good talent overall. Look what usc did to WSU…no transitive properties, but…

    • I could see that happening unless the staff cleans up the defense and the passing game. Fortunately, the remainder of the games won’t face a run and shoot offense no it’s doubtful the beavs lose out. I think it’sore likely 2-4 to finish 6-6 but that is certainly not a given. I think WSU has a tendency toale teams play ugly and the beavs played the part today.

    • 2
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      Yeah, maybe. Depends on whether or not we actually open up the playbook on offense.

      We’re gonna get smacked in one of those games. My guess is that the Arizona State and Utah games will be absolute beatdowns.

      • ASU and Utah look to be “l’s” for sure and if the passing game continues to look like a jv squad, Cal is not going to be a cake walk either. We should beat CO even if we don’t throw 1 pass. Oregon could still be a toss up at this point but we play them on the road so I’m giving the edge to the yucks for now. Even more so if they decide to bench Brown as I think the young gun behind him is much more talented and has looked good in a small sample. There’s people saying 8 wins still which is ridiculous. I think we’re a 6 win team which should be something to be happy about considering our recent history but considering we were 4-1 and if we can only grab 2 more wins, that would be a let down.

        • 3
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          Disagree. I have Utah as a loss, but I think we’re in the other 5 games. Cal, CO, Stanford should be wins. I think we beat Oregon this year, too. ASU a toss up.

          • Hope I’m wrong for sure but Cal, CO and Stanford are the games that I see as our best options if the Beavs team of the last 2 weeks is the team that we “really” are.

  26. 3
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    Why do the Beavs continue to trip over their own dicks against Rolo and Wazzu????

    This isn’t Leach. Rolovich isn’t anything special. Absolutely horrible loss.

    On the bright side, Dodgers destroyed the Giants tonight to salvage the day.

    And my awful ass neighbors dog got blasted on the highway after these horrible pet owners left their gate open. Again.

    Feel bad for the dog, but fuck them. They don’t deserve to own a dog. Totally irresponsible people.

  27. If Smith admitted his fake punt was a dumb call, that may be progress….first step is admitting it was wrong. We’ll see if he learns from this or returns to form.

  28. Everyone was on the Lindgren band wagon the past few weeks but he has called two bad games in a row. Nolan was clearly struggling and it is was as if Lindgren couldn’t adjust to what was actually happening on the field. Smith is the head coach and the buck stops with him, but Lindgren is showing some serious limitations with his ability to read the game and adjust the game plan on the fly.

  29. From Canzano, who wonders why OSU didn’t run the ball more:

    “Smith told me after the game that his locker room was silent. He walked in and apologized to the team for attempting an unsuccessful fake punt in the second half from midfield. It’s the one play Smith said he immediately wished he could have back because the gamble put his defense on a short field.

    “That’s the one for me,” he said.”

    Re play selection:

    “They should have run the ball. Just handed it to Deshaun Fenwick. Then, handed it to him again. Then, looked up and evaluated. With the game on the line, 14 yards from the end zone, armed with two time outs, Oregon State should have put the game on the widest set of shoulders in The Palouse.

    You know, that mountain of an offensive line.

    Oregon State instead went pass (sack), QB draw (one-yard loss), pass (incomplete), and pass (complete but short of first down).”

    • 8
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      That’s great and all, but if he immediately admits he shouldn’t have done it, then why the fuck did he do it to begin with?!?

      Sounds like he lost the locker room a bit over those calls if he’s immediately apologizing. Idiots on Twitter are telling me it was a good call…lololol. Tribalism. Because Smith is their guy, his shit never stinks. I wonder if Smith admitting he was a moron and made terrible calls will change their minds. Because when I say that exact thing, it’s “wrong.”

      • It was an awful call and play design. If your going to huck the ball up for a PI use an actual receiver and an actual QB. Also maybe do it on a play where PI can be called

        • “Also maybe do it on a play where PI can be called.” Which he understood apparently.

          You want to start losing a locker room? Maybe don’t run the ball from the 15 when you have 4 downs, 120 seconds, two guys averaging 8 YPC each, and Colletto. Good fucking Christ.

  30. 7
    1

    Everyone is on Tibs. I think the players are the ones to blame. They took shit angles the whole 2nd half, gave up to many first downs on third and long, slow to react and missed assignments. They looked lost. Love Avery but he over pursued and had his ankles broke several times. WSU is the worst match up for our system and personnel. The season is not lost and I still like our chances. Utah is not great, Stanford is inconsistent, Arizona St has not been great in the NW in November and we have played the Ducks good recently. The ship is not sinking.

    • The ship is only sinking if you have nuts expectations. Winning season is my expectation. I expect stupid loss games. Hell my buddy oldest dream was 9-3 and until yesterday we were staring down the barrel of a cfp birth. My heart can’t handle they kind of step change, winning season please.

    • 4
      1

      Nah, Tibs definitely on the hook and deservedly so. Bad game plan and zero adjustments made once they started to light us up. Angles and tackling issues have been staples of his as well since he came on. He’s been stellar on first and 2nd down but 3rd down, and specifically 3rd and long, he’s absolutely horrendous. Have to get off the field and he’s not been able to do that. Only held 2 opponents under 400 yds of offense, Idaho and UW. Idaho game definitely has helped the bottom line stats.

      • Thats what irritates me the most about the D. The lack of adjustments made during the game. When the cougs came out empty with 5 receivers it was almost as if the D had no idea how to defend it. There were guys open all 2nd half. Its not as if WSU had never run it.

        • Yep. Same with Washington game. Had UW kept mixing in and utizing the wildcat I think they would’ve won that game. We had no answer for it and no adjustments made, UW quit using it. Particularly on that 4th down…unless there was an injury I wasn’t aware of, not sure why they wouldn’t have used it in that situation.

  31. What really bothers me is that we lost while trying stupid trick plays and failed 4th down conversations. That makes us look like a D2 school who figures they have no chance of winning by playing their opponent straight up. That’s bullshit. We have all of the tools to beat WSU if we play our strengths against their weaknesses. But it’s like JS doesn’t believe that. Maybe he’s been a Beaver for so long that he still doesn’t believe we can be/are that good. It’s time for him to evaluate the strengths of his team, believe in them, and use them to their full potential.

  32. Totally nailed this one except I had WSU scoring 35.
    Next weeks hunt for the submerged bandwagon now postponed indefinitely.
    Now Beavs shoot for 6-6 and back into a mid-December bowl game named after some crappy snack food or a software company no one has ever heard of.

    • Not really. OSU has the top rushing offense in the conference, probably one of the best in the country, and was at or near the top of the PAC for scoring. OSU RBs have ridiculous YPC averages. WSU has been wildly inconsistent.

      Matchups are an issue of course, but if OSU played to its strength, and avoided bonehead calls, its not absurd to predict them to win.

      • Agree here, this game was lost by the coach’s more than the players. Same players with better, specifically offensive play calling, and less gambles, and this is a w.

        4-2 and could be 6-0 with a less gambles and playing the correct players week 1.

        I also am starting to dislike the wr always swapping out players. Not sure why we can’t let Harrison who is clearly the wr, get in the game for 90%+ of the plays. And Gould should be seeing a lot more time as well. Beason, Bradford and Tyjon should be battling for the 3rd spot.

        Defensively it was disheartening to see how easily the offensive handled and sort of pass rush. I know we dropped 8 a lot, but any blitz scheme or frankly bringing 4, de Laura had all day to throw.

        • 4
          1

          Well honestly the team could achieve that though. Those 2 wins were against top tier teams. Dropping the wsu hurts, but opportunity is there still

        • 5
          1

          The PAC is wide open. Popular media now “dropping” Ducks from CFP to Rose Bowl, like it’s guaranteed and they’re the only candidate. It’s far from that obviously. I won’t be surprised to see the Ducks fall to OSU and one other team.

          This is the year, and the running game anyway, to have such aspirations.

          I still think OSU could take PAC North, and I think WSU will have a mediocre season.

          Certainly the D and receivers could have played better. But more strategic, strength-based play calling could have changed the context of the game.

  33. Congratulations to Beavrecruiting on winning this week’s pickem(by virtue of tiebreaker) after getting 2nd last week (by virtue of losing the tiebreaker).
    5th place overall and rising. Watch out, or that $20 pot will remain mine!

    • Yeah they did a few things.

      1) switched to attacking the middle of the field instead of the flats. This messed up our blitz scheme and tested our lb coverage.

      2) kept a rb back to block.

      3) added vertical routes. The most effective was a shallow slant which is a timing route where you hit the slant early and then the receiver goes straight up the seem.

      • Thanks – to their credit, it felt like Wazzu looked at what we were doing and made the right adjustments. I wonder if we were physically unable to answer their adjustments or if Tibs just didn’t anticipate/wasn’t prepared to make his own adjustments.

      • Yeah, then once the DB’s dropped 5-10 yards off the LOS, the receivers went back to running the out routes and screens.

        At that point, the defense was simply too confused to know what to do.

  34. What really bugs me is they gave up almost a guaranteed GameDay visit with Utah beating USC just so we could go for it on 4th and 2 on our own 41 yard line and heave ridiculous 30 yard bombs from midfield because even 4th and 4 or 5 yards is close enough to have 20% odds of converting amd that is good enough for the coaches to go for it in the spirit of being “aggressive”. Playing to win means avoiding the mistakes that costs you games. It isn’t just when the refs throw flags but when you make mental blunders like this and not only don’t execute these dumb plays but then also what it does for the positive momentum of the other team on a short field with far higher odds of scoring. We basically went 0 for 4 on these plays yesterday and poor results don’t sway the thinking at all. The coaches wrongly think it means they must be more likely to convert the next I’ll conceived 4th down call with isn’t even well designed.

    All we had to do is play normal football. We have more talent than WSU this year and a clear strength in our running. Why play like a Div2 team taking their one shot against Alabama? Winning that game might have sold another 2000+ seats next year if GameDay came to Corvallis like they probably would have and we ended up beating Utah. A very realistic shot at Rose Bowl in that case that many of us don’t know if we will ever see in our lifetimes. Was all so easily there for us on a platter and we thought it was more fun to twirl it in the 5 times and see if we could catch it with the food still intact. Just dumb.

    I don’t really want to be 80+ when OSU finally gets out of their own way to enjoy a Rose Bowl berth. Won’t be able to enjoy it besides a feeble smile. Long suffering fans deserve better from the staff than pussing away great opportunities like these acting like they have a Stage 5 gambling addiction to calling wreckless 4th downs with the game in the balance when we have a great punter and can pin them deep. Reeks of sad septegenarians spending away their Social Security checks at the slots until they leave with nothing.

    • “Why play like a Div2 team taking their one shot against Alabama?”

      Yes. This is my biggest gripe with the 4th down “analytics” approach. It sends the message to the team that the coaches don’t think they are good enough to win without rolling the dice. It made sense in galvanizing the players to compete and stay emotionally engaged during the early lows of the program rebuild. Now that the team has had some success it is trying to build off of it feels out of place and detrimental.

  35. Heard mannions little bro had a private workout with crystobal this weekend. Was told he doesn’t want to play in the shadow of his bros legacy at osu.

  36. Just watched this shit show on DVR. Glad I went to Octoberfest in New Ulm, MN yesterday.
    That may have been one of the most irritating games in Beav history. Totally lost by the coaches! MR flashbacks on the sequence with eighty seconds left.
    Run the f’ing ball dumbass!!
    Looks like the WRs and TEs took juggling lessons last week. This game is Beaver football in a nutshell.

    • Beavs played like they thought WSU was going to bow down and just hand them the game. It’s almost like they expected that. Every player seemed to be looking around for the guy next to him to make a play.

      • It was at Schells Brewery. It the second oldest family owned brewery in the nation, founded in 1860. Very cool. Sioux Indians burnt down New Ulm, but spared the brewery because they had given them food and beer for a number of years!
        Octoberfest Marzen style was the only style I imbibed. They make some good beers.
        https://www.schellsbrewery.com/

  37. Tinfoil hat time:

    Was there some sort of backroom agreement with Rolo and those recruiting letters that were sent to Hawaii players when Rolo coached there early in Smiths tenure? That like the beavs have to throw the games? Only thing that makes sense to me.

  38. 5
    1

    Lots to criticize here obviously but it has to start with Tibs and our complete failure to adjust to 5-wide. Field position and 4th down calls don’t matter at all when you can’t get a stop to save your life. Playing so far off the receivers (all game long!) is an absolutely horrible game vs an air raid, which is at their best dinking and dunking with short underneath routes. That’s their bread and butter and you’re letting them play to their strength pretty much uncontested. Awful game plan, awful (lack of) adjustments.

    On offense, Musgrave 100% to be done. He’s a horrible blocker, he’s a horrible catcher. He’s even kicked in with some false starts in previous games.
    He’s a one man drive-killer that’s unreliable and does nothing well. I saw at least two run plays blown up due to a total whiff on his part. On the Nolan pick, he was just standing out of bounds waiting for the ball. The announcers called him out on it “even if he catches it, he’s standing out of bounds”…dude is clueless and an embarrassment. TQ is great. For multiple TE sets we have young talent we could try out or Colletto could fill in as a blocker. I wouldn’t mind seeing Colletto an every down player- he’s the anti-Musgrave. Clutch and does everything well.

    WR snaps need to be seriously re-examined. As others have said, we have too many guys and it’s hurting our flow and their development. All these formations and personnel groupings are cool in theory but it’s making us disjointed and choppy. Champ should not be on the field. I was the #1 Beason fan pre-season and thought he’d be our best guy…but he’s been horrible (despite 2nd most snaps). He should be throttled way back. Harrison and Gould should be clear 1 and 2. Bradford and Lindsay can fill out the third spot. Beason, Tongue, maybe Dunmore can fill in sparingly.

    At this point we know who our studs are and we know who our duds are. Set offensive personnel accordingly.

    • And specifically re: the fake punt call-

      Cougs scored a TD on every possession in the second half.
      Their scoring drives covered 50, 75, 75, 95 yards in order. And rolled with very little difficulty.
      Do you honestly think short field vs long field on that particular drive would have made the slightest difference in this game? I sure don’t.

      We can talk about the 4th down mentality and what that could mean in future games, but it didn’t affect this one. This is wholly on Tibs and the D.

    • We got burned the last few times against Wazzu when the DBs played close to the LOS. When we have that mismatch, you might as well let them move the ball between the 20’s. The defense stiffened when Wazzu got into the red zone, which is exactly what we wanted. Defense played well enough to win (minus the angles in the 2nd half), and the scheme used was much, much better than in years’ past.

      Something is up with Musgrave. I think he is a headcase. He’s thrown some really good blocks in previous games and whiffed on others. If I’m Lindgren, I’d try to get him some easy completions with a stick route or a flat. Doesn’t help when Nolan is throwing wobbly passes, either (he’s done that the past two games). That’s a sign that Nolan is trying to throw the ball too hard.

      Like I said before, get the ball to the WRs in space. We have speed on the edges. If Wazzu is able to run mesh/cross route concepts all day, why can’t we? It’s okay to get 3-5 yards on a passing play, so long as it stretches the defense sideline to sideline. Not every passing play has to take 4-6 seconds to develop. If Gould or Irish are in, send them deep and let Chance throw is as far as he can. There’s absolutely no reason why Nolan shouldn’t have 30 completions a game with the talent we have at the WR position.

      • You don’t need 30 completions a game when you’re running the ball really well, but you do need a high completion percentage to keep the defense honest.

        • The point I’m making is that we are capable of calling plays were Chance can get 30 completions, and carry a high completion percentage, because of the personnel we have at WR. However Lindgren is not realizing this and is forcing Chance to sit in the pocket and get hit.

          • Very true. We may have the fastest WR corps in the conference with a certain group of guys out there, but we don’t do much with them.

  39. I don’t necessarily hate the going for it on 4th down. But, on 4th and short, opponents do not want this Beaver team to run the ball… they want to avoid trying to match up against this running attack… so why the eff are we passing it? They want us to pass on 4th and short. Smith gives them what they want!

  40. I was pretty down about the season this weekend after listening to Prozac Parker on Saturday, but I woke up realizing the following things:
    -We’re still in first place in the North
    -We still have a QB who is an asset rather than a liability for the offense, and probably the best running game in the conference
    -Our defense got burned by a scheme mismatch. Tibesar isn’t a great DC (which we already knew), but we’ve played well against the types of offenses we’ll face the rest of the season.

    I think we will win at least 3 more games. WSU was probably our least favorable matchup based on schemes, and we only lost by a TD. No one left on the schedule has the same kind of small, speedy playmakers at receiver (maybe Nike, but I don’t think they use them the same way as WSU).

  41. Also, I haven’t seen pass protection mentioned yet. I didn’t get to watch the game, but it sounded like Nolan was under a lot of pressure and I’m seeing Joshua Gray has one of the worst pass protection grades among OT’s in the conference.

    Nolan played great under pressure against USC, but maybe the blindside hits are starting to get to him.

    • He plays really well under pressure. I think the drops are getting to him. Doesn’t matter if he makes a heroic stand in pressure if it bounces off the receivers hands.

  42. Elijah Jones voicing some displeasure on Twitter. Don’t recall him getting any snaps and yet we seemed to roll out our 3rd string DBs at some points in the game. Curious what Austin has shown that he gets the nod over Jones. Obviously Austin vs Drake London was a massive mismatch being one of the best college WR but he always seems to be 5 yards away from the receivers.

    Beav Blitz gang pretty critical of Tibs as well and have voiced many of the same concerns that I have been bringing up for quite some time. Not sure what the infatuation is with Tibs and why so many people seem to be fine with whatever he’s brought to the table. Defense has improved in some areas but I would attribute that to just better quality athletes and the strength staff but more so on the position coaches than the scheme. Running the same 3-4 that Anderson did so it’s not like he brought in a revamped defensive scheme that’s putting players in better positions to be successful. Lacks ability to adjust during game. Questionable game planning. QB pressure still largely an issue. 3rd down conversions. Yards per game. WSU could’ve been up by more had Rolo not opted out of a fg or two and obviously the 3rd down play at the goal line where the QB noodle armed a pass to a wide open receiver. Also took a really good play by Wright to tip that pass which Omar picked off. Not sure the 3-4 is the right scheme and can we truly recruit the players that will best fit the needs. Still a lot of season left but if the same issues persist through the year, I think JS has a decision to make.

    • Jones has played about 30 snaps, but probably way fewer than he expected when he transferred. He was hurt for half the season, so that plays a role.

      Austin is the weak link in the secondary at this point, but he’s pretty good against the run, so maybe that’s keeping him on the field (and Jones off it).

      • Curious how much that injury has truly kept him out. Hard to say with JS as he offers nothing up. I thought Jones had been available since week 2 but maybe I got that wrong. Also with Gebbia. Clearly the injury he had was pretty bad but going from meaningful practice all the way up until right before the 1st game and now close to 2 months later and still no change is interesting. I’m in no position to understand that injury and what it takes to come back but just feels a little odd. There’s also the ignigma that us Gumbs. Still injured? Team rules stuff? If team rules and it’s been bad enough to not play at all through 6 games, seems like it would be something to warrant being let go from the team. Could be an interesting off-season.

        • My read on the Gebbia situation is that he probably had a setback, but is willing to play as an emergency backup so he’s dressing on gamedays.

    • Because we don’t have the personnel to either run a true 3-4, a 4-3, a 2-3-6 or a 3-3-5 because of injuries and lack of depth in the secondary and coverage LB’s. With Gumbs and Saluni out, there is an excess of run-stopping linebackers who are not good in coverage. Like Nuke said in a previous thread, once we get Sio and Hodgins back, we should be able to switch to a 4-3.

      We’re barely even 3 deep at CB to run a nickel or dime package. If you can’t collapse the pocket or have the personnel to cover WR’s, you’re gonna get burned no matter how many adjustments are made.

      If there’s one true criticism of Tibs, it’s recruiting. We match up very well against Washington, Oregon and Stanford based on run-stopping personnel. We don’t against Wazzu and ASU. If we move on from Tibs, we better be ready to double the starting DC salary to shore up those personnel deficiencies.

  43. OSU’s PAC-12 PFF unit rankings at the halfway point.

    QB- 2
    RB- 4
    WR- 5
    TE- 5
    OL (run blocking)- 1 by a wide margin
    OL (pass blocking)- 6

    CB- 8
    S- 3
    LB- 6
    Edge- 11
    Interior- 8

    K- 4
    P- 1

    Defense still the clear laggards. On this basis, Julian and Oladapo have really been our only significant improvements over last season on that side of the ball. You could maybe throw in Lolohea, but I don’t think he’s had enough reps to make a significant impact.

    • Safety’s been our weakest link on D for a long time. Weird to see that change as the rest of the D largely regresses. Julian is definitely fun to watch, and you could argue he’s our best defender (PFF would say so, though obviously Roberts is great).

    • No but apparently he may not have been fired from Utah State and instead offered his resignation. Think it’s surrounding his decisions to resign from 2 jobs and leaving millions on the table. Wonder if there were some underlying issues there at Utah State as well that prompted that. Wild stuff.

    • So this article made me break down and subscribe to The Athletic. and? It’s nothing special, it’s nothing we haven’t heard before. Wisconsin wasn’t sad to see him go, in fact the assessment was another year of GA recruiting might have ruined their program. (Duh) He is still married, that kinda surprised me.
      I was hoping to learn at least the hair color of the cheerleader he knocked up…

  44. 13

    Welp not to sound like the movie the Notebook here but I had some real hopes personally for this season. I’m almost 60 and my dad is 86. Mom and dad met on a blind date while attending OSU back in the 50’s. We became a family with many OSU alumns with dad/mom being the first. I’ve had a whole life dream of going to the Rose Bowl with my dad before he dies. He has dementia now but can still be in the moment and hold an intelligent conversation. I thought this year would be the year that the life long dream would come true and maybe my last chance to be at that Rose Bowl game with dad. I know it is still possible according to the numbers but this weekend was especially hard to take. It is just football I know and my happiness isn’t tied to it, but some dreams are.

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