10.Sep.2011 Wisconsin Post game thoughts

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Feel like I attended a clinic–"the dichotomy of how football, how it should and should not be played."

Every time I try to form an argument that this is due to poor recruiting, freshman, time zones, or any other bogus excuse, I always wind up deleting the sentence and coming back to the same, simple conclusion: the Beavers pay no attention to detail, and there is no accountability.

That is the bottom line, and both start at the top.

That is why last week I asked for Riley's resignation. I understand he won't be fired. I understand the process will be:

  1. Give him this season to right the ship.
  2. If he doesn't, then a coordinator will be fired in the off-season.
  3. Give him next season to finish the rebuilding job.
  4. If that doesn't happen, another coordinator will be fired.
  5. Give him the next season to right the ship.
  6. Rinse and repeat.

This is OSU, an ag school where change happens slower than grass grows on the Tundra.

I get it.

I've been a Met, Jet, and Beaver fan for most of my life. I can deal with loses. Many losing teams are even fun to watch if they play the game correctly. What I can't deal with is lack of detail, being unprepared, or lacking intensity. These are three problems that originate from the top. When I say "the top", I mean Riley, but I also mean above him. If the AD cannot reprimand or fire his subordinates, then he has set the tone, whether intentionally or not, for chaos. A coach who cannot be fired rotates QBs. A coach who cannot be fired keeps incompetent friends on staff. A coach who cannot be fired comes to games unprepared. Etc.

Why do studies show professional players perform their best in contract years?

Why do they perform their worst after signing long term deals?

Obviously because having food on the table and money in the bank are motivating factors.

It is truly scary how quickly the wheels are falling off. A vicious cycle is about to ensue. A cycle where donors bail because the product is poor, the product becomes even poorer because donors have bailed, recruits decommit because the product has become poorer, and the product becomes poorer because recruits decommitted. Etc.

What will make me bail is not the losses. It is how the Beavers play the game–the mental component. I cannot witness weak, unprepared players with no attention to detail. I just can't. Sound fundamentals are mandatory. The fundamentals have never been good at Oregon State. It's why I've been a critic for years. But, I take no solace in being right. I'd rather the problem be corrected than be right. And I am officially right. When Urban Meyer mocks the team, there is no debate.

How do I know the issue is coaching? Because I closely watch other teams. For example, Boise State. That is the most sound, fundamental team in the game. While Chris Peterson might not have won vs Sac State or Wisconsin, I know a Peterson coached team would showed up with a sound game plan (i.e. mitigating weakness/playing up strengths), executed it perfectly, and if they lost it would be because the opponent was just better. However, I constantly leave Beaver games with a nagging "what if?" feeling, and to me this says the Beavers are not necessarily worse than their opponents, but instead they are just much more psychologically and fundamentally unsound. They are mentally weak, making critical errors at the most inopportune time. They don't understand how to seize moments. Has anyone preached the importance of third downs to this team? They don't seem to get it. All of this starts at the top. Demanding results from players, preparing them for what to expect, how to handle it, etc.

I watch Peterson or Kelly interact with their QBs. It is intense, demanding, and has a point. Leaders emerge from their programs. I watch OSU interact with their QB, and it is an unstructured mess that hopes for the best. You can see it in each coach's respective eyes–I don't need an interview or admission of guilt. The problem with Oregon State is simple: Accountability has become an illusion. Attention to detail, which was always poor at OSU, is now non-existent. The latter is what drives me nuts and is testing my patience. I think that's true for all of you, too. If the players were sound and giving maximum effort we could deal with these loses. When was the last time you saw an OSU player dive for the sticks and give the extra effort that's the difference between winning and losing? It doesn't happen. The players are now representative of the coach, and the coach is representative of the higher administration and placated fan base that is willing to forgive and excuse.

I have ideas on how to resolve the issue, but they're not worth discussing in detail. The short of it is that your money talks. Use that right wisely and make sure the appropriate people know how you feel.

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  • issaquahbeav says:
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    Just when I thought it couldn’t get any worse, I noticed that Sac St just got rolled by Southern Utah 35-14…there goes any creditiblity that SS was really that good.

    This was the first time I got to see the Beavs this year. I felt like I was watching the game in slo-mo. Others here had mentioned Mannion’s wind up throws, and how awkward it looked. I completely agree. Isn’t someone teaching him to immediately bring the ball up high then throw? I admittedly know nothing about QB mechanics but his throwing style is going to cost us a turnover at some point.

    Where do you guys think we’ll pick up wins this year? At this point, I don’t see any. For all this perceived talent out there, I don’t see it. The offense feels awkward with Mannion out there. Yeah, I get he’s a freshman, but I think Katz gives the Beavs the best chance if noneother than the other players probably trust him more.

    • USAFBvr says:
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      I don’t know that I agree regarding Mannion. We like to pick on the QB, but how different is this kid in size and throwing mechanics from Andrew Luck? They are both big dudes and they both wind up to sling the ball. The big difference for Luck is that Harbaugh actually knows what he is doing with a QB (when Harbaugh was there) and Harbaugh recruited some lineman that weren’t all from the Pacific NW. Great skill players are, welll, great. Without a solid foundation on the O-line and D-line, the skill players look average at best. If you get Mannion a line with some beasts with attitude, I guarantee you that in a year or two, he could slice and dice a defense. He’ll be average to below average without one and we won’t win many games either.

  • angry angry says:
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    One more thing: the program mentally is engulfing natural born leaders. See Dylan Wynn. The guy played with no emotion today. I know that guy is naturally a psychopath (at least on the field). It’s contagious.

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      @angry: I just watched the first half again, in slow motion. Dylan Wynn looked like his usual supercharged self to me. Wynn made one great play where he threw off a blocker in the backfield and tackled the ball carrier. I also saw a couple of impressive bull rushes (one where the Wisconsin lineman applied an elbow choke grip around Wynn’s neck, and for some reason was not called for holding — should have negated a big Wisconsin pass play if the refs had eyes).

      • USAFBvr says:
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        I agree. Wynn is a freshman and actually plays sound football. He often seems to be in the right place to stop a play when the ball is reversed back to his side of the field. What I’m afraid of is that as soon as he spends a year under Riley and Co’s. tutelage, he’ll actually get worse, not better.

  • Gman says:
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    Today marked the first time the Beavers have been shut out by a nonconference opponent since a 27-0 loss at Fresno State on Sept. 13, 1986.

    • sparkyd73 says:
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      The question is why? We had opportunities to kick a field goal and not be shut out.

  • angry angry says:
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    Watching BYU right now. Another great example of sound fundamentals. Sure, they are all 25 years old and might not beat Texas, but they’re playing the game correctly/soundly. It’s not just Boise. It’s BYU, Utah, etc.

    When BYU comes to Corvallis it will be an excellent demonstration on fundamentals/lack of.

    • Gman says:
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      Even Duke vs. Standford or Nevada vs. Oregon, the lesser teams have good fundamentals and don’t make you questioning whether or not a receiver is going to actually catch the ball or fumble it, etc.

    • JackBeav says:
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      BYU is handling Texas right now. And UGA lost to SC in a wild 4th quarter. Let the Richt and Brown lynch mobs start their whisper campaigns. Well, Richt’s was whispering a couple years ago. This will have them beating down the hedges.

    • Gabriel Gabriel says:
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      BYU coach Bronco Mendenhall was a Beav….wouldn’t he be a good fit for Oregon State if we could get him?

      • USAFBvr says:
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        He’s also Mormon, so he’s in heaven right now and won’t leave unless he’s kicked out.

  • cloudy says:
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    i thought canfield to kjos in the 3rd quarter of the 2009 civil war to give osu a 30-21 lead over oregon was the beginning of a high point for OSU football.. now it just looks like the beginning of the end for mike riley.

    • Gman says:
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      It’s the beginning of an end that will take too long to end. I want change within next season, but we all know that will never happen.

  • BeavGirl BeavGirl says:
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    Every time the beavs are on the field it looks like they are surprised to be playing football.

  • Noah says:
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    My theory about the Mannion situation is that Riley has given up on this season and decided to go with the “upside” freshman to “build for the future.” The sad thing is he clearly decided the season was over halfway through the Sac St game.

    • beavers4life says:
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      Katz only had a month of prep/reps before the season started! You don’t expect the guy who is supposed to be the offensive leader last season to just “jump right in” and suddenly we’re immediately better than last year do you?! I mean get real! I’ve been wanting Mannion to have the actual start from the beginning since he had all the spring/summer/and most of the fall camps reps at QB! He was primed and ready for the power cord to be pulled! Katz on the other hand thought he would be fine and was complacent with his ability and felt cocky in not needing to work on much in the off season and look what happened! He choked his starting spot away because of it! If he had actually worked hard with his receivers and worked on his drops, his throwing motion, his short passes, and also his footwork of play action, then maybe I would think differently. However, the way I see Katz right now is that he’s worse than he was when he was hurt in the CW. He looks like he’s trying to find James Rodgers on the field and he realizes he’s not there and then he reacts!

      • Noah says:
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        I’m not arguing one way or the other for who should be the QB. First, I think the way Riley is treating Katz is shit. For a nice guy he is really acting like an ass in this situation. Better to bench Katz than to toy with him in such an obvious way. Second, I was merely stating that I think Riley has decided to go with Mannion because he has mentally decided this is a “building” year and Mannion has better long-term upside.

  • David says:
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    “If the players were sound and giving maximum effort we could deal with these loses. When was the last time you saw an OSU player dive for the sticks and give the extra effort that’s the difference between winning and losing? It doesn’t happen. The players are now representative of the coach, and the coach is representative of the higher administration and placated fan base.”

    Really well said. I’m a die-hard Beaver, an alum and have supported the BASF for the 11th consecutive year but I’ve got to really think about what I’m going to do going forward. The money is certainly an element in my decision to support/not support but for me personally it’s more about BELIEF, or shall I say the lack of it. Like him or not I always thought that we had a chance we DE but have never gotten the same feeling with MR. The lack of accountability is mind boggling and is shameful IMO. As long time supporters of OS we deserve better than and unfortunately it looks like the only way BDC will take notice is if donors bail and tickets go left unsold.

  • angry angry says:
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    The QB situation is a mess. I keep hearing Katz or Mannion. Doesn’t matter to me because neither has the “it” quality…

    Mannion played better as that game progressed. His decision making is quick, but his delivery is so slow. I don’t see how it can be effective long term. Teams with fast CBs are going to intercept him often. Wisconsin has a pretty bad secondary, and even they should have had a couple INTs…

    Richie Harrington, please!

    • Gman says:
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      Hekker for QB!!!

    • helmsley says:
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      He’ll probably leave the program now.

    • USAFBvr says:
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      Now, now angry…that’s not fair to Mannion. A slow wind up is irrelevant if the QB understands the routes and gets the ball to the receivers on time. That means “anticipation”. The question is not about his delivery (Andrew Luck does the same thing). The question is whether or not Mannion will show anticipation to make up for the delivery. Byron Leftwich may have the slowest throwing motion in the history of football, but he was still successful because he got the ball where it needed to be by anticipating. If you know the receiver is going to run a 10 yard out, start your throwing motion before the receiver makes the break. That way, the ball is on its way as he comes out of his break and looks back to the QB. The corner will not have had time to break on the ball and if it’s a good throw, it’s a completion.

      Mannion’s problem during his first series yesterday was that he was slow to recognize and late in throwing the ball. That is why he was almost picked off 3 times in 3 throws.

  • FatDog says:
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    We are now considered a cream puff team. See how one Wis fan portrayed the Beavs in an ESPN comment section:

    “I’m a huge badgers fan. But this is emabarrassing. Every year the badgers do their best to schedule cream puffs before the B10 play starts. This keeps them out of the national championship conversation. Are they just happy to finish the year ranked 10th and maybe have a shot at the Rose Bowl? Are they ever going to grow a pair and schedule legitimate competition?”

    Ouch!

  • angry angry says:
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    Couple interesting scores:

    Southern Utah 34, Sacramento State 14
    Washington State 59, UNLV 7

    • Orange Lantern says:
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      Unless something changes Wazzu is gonna have our number again this year. We are not playing any better than UNLV.

      • helmsley says:
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        Bobby Hauck is one of the top-20 hot seat coaches. I read about him in Scoreboard,Baby when he was with Rick Neuheisel at Washington, I thought he sounded like a jerk, however.

  • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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    Katz must be injured. You can’t tell me he’s completely forgotten how to throw the ball down field and the coaches don’t trust him as a passer any more. He wasn’t THAT bad last year even in his worst games. Call me crazy, but with a healthy team, todays game was winnable. Wisconsin didn’t look like a top 10 team, instead, we were a bottom 10 team. Just look at washington state vs unlv today. They whooped up on unlv worse than wisconsin did last week without their starting quarterbak.
    Things will improve if we can start getting healthy. Key missing players…Rodgers, Halahuni, hardin, Andrews, Agnew, Bishop. Add to that a freshman quarterback with no experience and you couldn’t possibly expect to have a well played game. That’s a ton of starting talent missing and the inexperience showed. (I can’t explain Hecker, he needs to go back to mcdonalds)

    Anyway, I still think we can pull out a few wins this season (cal, ucla, colorado) but we need to get healthy. Mannion will improve if Katz is out for good.

    • WFO WFO says:
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      No chance of a win this year.

      Yes there is some missing talent but you’d have to bring back Steven Jackson and Matt Moore to win games with this squad. Sorry,I just don’t see any of the injured players making much difference.

      It’ll be interesting to see if Agnew’s actually legit,but even if he is he can’t carry this gang of pansies on his back any more than Quizz could last year.

    • slamadam says:
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      bishop played most of the game (and made some good and one great catch) before he hurt his foot

      • WFO WFO says:
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        Cool story bro.

        So since he’s now hurt also, I’ll add Mike Hass to my list of must-have returnees for this shitbag squad to win a single game.

        So that’s:

        -Matt Moore
        -Steven Jackson
        -Mike Hass

        Since none of these guys are coming back to rescue Riley,I’m projecting an 0-12 finish for the 2011 Beavers.

  • Gabriel Gabriel says:
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    Just looked at the stat comparison between UW & OSU. 20 first downs to 17, 397 yards to 284, 3rd downs 8-15 to 7-15, Penalties 6-53 to 6-51, Possession 29 to 31 min.
    Sure doesn’t look like a 35 point loss. But going back to lack of detail (Hekker’s punt, no reason for rugby style as called out by commentators, switches mid-drive at QB, and running the ball on first down when you are down by two scores and your QB just passed for consecutive completions….all of these add-up through-out the game).

    • angry angry says:
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      Right, what was the point of that rugby style kick? Will the media ask about it? Will the media ask why Hekker was smiling after that? If I’m the coach, and I see my kicker smiling after that…let’s just say he’d be a lamp shade the next day.

  • Gabriel Gabriel says:
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    BYU coach Bronco Mendenhall was a Beav….wouldn’t he be a good fit for Oregon State if we could get him?

    • angry angry says:
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      Yes, but what’s in it for him?

      BYU is a good gig. It’s hard to argue OSU is better.

      • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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        I believe Bronco Mendenhall is not just a coach at a Morman school but he is a Morman. So I doubt he’d leave unless Mitt Romney ask him to run with him… and the church approves.

        • mckalk mckalk says:
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          Yeah, I think it is probably the ultimate gig for him. Mike Leach is Mormon also, but I don’t think he fits BYU’s image.

  • Orange Lantern says:
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    Good writeup. Chris Petersen and Bosie St. vs Wisconsin would be a good matchup. Kellen Moore is quite the QB. Boise St would have beaten Sacramento St 49-0 at home. (42-7 on the road)

    There is no accountability. Angry, Objcritic, anyone here could have scored 0 points on their very worst day. Yet Riley had the last year to prepare for this matchup knowing it would be on National TV and lays a goose-egg. If Riley was a good coach he would be the one goose-egging “decent” teams from time to time, but he never does. But Harbaugh had no problem goose-egging Riley and either did Wisconsin. That tells you something. I don’t think players find him inspiring and like Angry said he has been deflating personalities under his influence.

  • Beavocalypse says:
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    Oregon State football, and its Athletic Director, are officially defined by one word: Cowardice. Riley doesn’t care about winning and every game he coaches will lessen his credibility as a leader and a class act. If he had any integrity at all he’d fire both coordinators and give his team a chance. Otherwise he is just a greedy coach like the rest that will sit on his ass and enjoy his pile o money. Fuck Riley and fuck his stooges Banker and Langsdorf. The way they shrink from these games is indicative of a lack of character.

    My plan? Stop watching these.sad excuses for games and pretend that Arizona State is OSU…AT LEAST SOMEONE IN BLACK WILL BE WINNING IMPORTANT GAMES. Sure it’s delusional but no more so than Riley or the Pollyannas believing this will turn around.

    At least there’s basketball season….oh wait

    • Gman says:
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      Agreed, and I actually do like ASU 🙂

      • helmsley says:
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        Osweiler and Pflugrad are both from Montana. Erickson still has ties to the state and apparently uses them well – very well. ASU defeated UC Davis 48-14 and Montana State defeated UC Davis 38-10 for whatever that’s worth.

        ASU has scheduled OSU for their Family Day weekend. for whatever that’s worth #2.

    • slamadam says:
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      youre a shit fan. you have no business commenting on mike rileys character or his integrity. taking a shot at decarolis (who is continuing to work as hard as he can is after being diagnosed with parkinsons disease) is fucking low. what do you expect him to do? fire riley, langsdorf, banker, cavanaugh, heyward, brennan, and whoever else two games into the season? I truly hope that youre speaking from frustration, and that you dont truly plan to “pretend arizona state is oregon state.” that would make you a bandwagon jumper, the lowest form of a sports fan. also, if youre honestly ready to give up on the beavers after two losses you probably arent a true beaver fan to begin with, just someone who decided they were your team around 08. criticize riley as a coach all you want. i do it all the time. but make your complaints warranted. how the fuck do you know how much he cares about winning? this is a man who has been a beaver (like many of us) since he was born. he doesent deserve character beacause his football team has played two awful games. go root for the sun devils. see if anybody gives a shit. ill stick with the beavers and continue to pity people with attitudes such as yours.

      • slamadam says:
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        he doesent deserve character shots*. sorry, i type poorly when im pissed off.

      • Beavocalypse says:
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        Disclaimer: I was pretty fucking hammered when writing this. However, I still feel that if he continues to sit on his hands like he has with his coordinators for years them he is just indulging himself with his absurd contract. Riley isn’t a saint and he left us for greener pastures when he needed to build his program. Now he has a golden goose contract and it shows and all I’m saying is that if this season is a losing one and he doesn’t shake things up or retire then he doesn’t deserve this worship he seems to have.

        • slamadam says:
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          i agree. didnt mean to come across as a dbag in my response, i apologize if i did. i certainly dont mean to imply that i love riley, we should all however keep sight of the fact that hes been at the helm for nearly all of the successes this programs ever had. (Excluding 2000 and 1967). that along with the fact that he doesent deserve personal shots is all i meant. hes far from perfect though, and id be the first to say that if the rest of this season goes as poorly as i fear that it could, next year should be his last at osu.

  • JackBeav says:
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    Texas just pulled ahead halfway through the 4th quarter.

  • Timber says:
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    I’m almost done watching the first half. I expected to see a heartless, totally unprepared team. I’m not seeing that. I do hear a lot of compliments from Urban Meyers though. If it weren’t for Hekker’s magic this could have been a more promising half. So the complete gloom on this board is too much, at least in terms of the first half.

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      @timber: It gets worse in the second half. You’ll see.

      I watched the game “live” this morning, and just watched the first half again, this time in slow motion. Three minutes into the second quarter, we were down 7-0 (due to Hekker’s shank). Wisconsin still had less than 10 yards rushing. The Beavers had made some first downs, and some nice plays on both sides of the ball. The commentators were indeed expressing surprise at how well the Beavers were doing. But it was starting to fall apart.

      Aside from very bad plays by our special teams, the most obvious problem was our pass defense. The Beavs blew coverage assignments on several plays, leaving Wisconsin receivers wide open. In Urban Meyer’s words, these were “easy reads” for an experienced QB such as Russell Wilson. Even where coverage assignments were not blown, coverage was often too soft, giving up 10-15 yard gains on seam and crossing patterns. And of course Russell Wilson was also getting too much time to throw — the Beavs struggled to get much pressure on Wilson (partly because Wisconsin’s o-line is good; partly because the Beavs usually just rushed the four down linemen with no special stunts or blitzes).

      Bottom line: it seemed, even in the first half, that Wisconsin could get 10-15 yards consistently with safe, short passes. The Beavs made this way too easy for Wisconsin. If we don’t fix this problem, our defense is not going to stop anybody this year. I suspect we may need to simplify our pass coverage schemes (since our guys can’t seem to play these schemes properly, leading to frequent blown coverages), and perhaps play more tight man-to-man and pressing coverages.

      • Timber says:
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        yes, Silver, there were quite a few blown coverages, like Unga letting the TE go on the TD, duhhh. DB’s were not sticking to assignments. And more of the same with Banker choosing to let a 5’10” DB try to defend the much taller star receiver by himself in the corner of the end zone. (bang bang bang head against wall) Classic Banker.

        Was pleasantly shocked that we did not give up any typical huge plays in first half.

        Our LB’s are small anyway, why not just play nickel all the time regardless of our personel and then zone blitz. Too much to ask with this vanilla coaching staff, never happen. Too risky/inspiring/creative for them.

        I saw some good push by the D-line though.

        I’ve never thought Mitchell was very good.

        I’m sick of both coordinators.

        Hekker needs to sit whether he’s the “best option” or not.

  • JackBeav says:
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    Off topic… those Michigan uni’s are awesome. ND not so much with the helmets.

  • SanDiegoBeav says:
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    It is amazing to see how some teams can be so prepared in the second game of the season. According to Riley, this is a time to experiment with a never before seen qb rotation. Utah lost to SC, but they would have whipped the Beavs tonight. Yes…those Michigan uni’s are sweet.

    • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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      Utah played just as well as SC, but Barkley was the better QB. Utah’s RB is pretty good. I’ll have to put these teams on my list of teams I may switch my fanship to.

      • Tyler says:
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        Gt is my other team, flexbone in the acc ftw!

        Sadly, many of us went to orst so it sucks donkey dong this year.

        No blazers either!

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    It was a tough Ute loss (their my second favorite team behind the Beavs).

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    UCLA looked pretty bad against San Jose St. If might be the Beavers last chance at a victory.

  • SalemBeav says:
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    In the past 9 or so years since Riley took over what have we done of any consequence? Quizz and James accounted for over 50% of the offense. Is this the team we would have had if they hadn’t come to OSU? Instead of playing for the Rose Bowl we could have competed with WSU for the cellar. I also hear a lot that Riley is a much better coach than Ericson and we are better off that Ericson is gone. Looks like ASU is doing alright, maybe not the Rose Bowl, but they look improved. I think we are going to know what it was like for the WA schools to go win less. I don’t see a team we can beat except for the practice squad. I like Riley, but either he has lost his football expertise or he has surrounded himself incompetence. When do the OC and DC contracts expire? I hope we didn’t extend them a year for each bowl?

    • slamadam says:
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      in the past 60 or so years before riley’s arrival what did “we” accomplish? (im like angry, i hate saying we when reffering to the team i root for.) why is it that because people are dissatisfied with coach riley currently do they feel the need to diminish his past accomplishments, namely giving the school some of its most successful seasons ever? i hate when people say we only had good years because of quizz and james. do you realize that rileys best year (’06) was before either of them had ever set foot in corvallis? By the way, its Erickson, not Ericson.

      • osbeavs says:
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        Previous to Riley’s arrival we had already acheived many Rose Bowls and a heisman trophy. Riley hasn’t even acheived the 2nd place bowl in the conference.

        • mckalk mckalk says:
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          Not saying Riley is great, but II think it was three or four Rose Bowls, not what I would call many in 100 plus years of Football and one heisman winner about 50 years ago.

  • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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    I like Mannion a lot and believe he will be a good one, slow delivery isn’t ideal but he’ll be fine. I’m debating not watching anymore games. It’s a lot like watching the Mariners play for me. I know they’re awful, just wanna watch to see the development of young guys. That’s how I feel about this squad. They may not win a game all year, just wanna see how the young guys progress. They probably won’t progress as much as they should with this coaching staff though. I watched today’s game from start to finish. It was excruciating.

    Been thinking, what if Riley goes 0-12, what happens? If they keep him they’re basically saying they’re okay with the program being a laughing stock. Langsdorf and Banker will probably be fired but how do we know Riley won’t bring in some other coaches who are just as terrible. Riley is the problem and that will be a problem that won’t go away for a long time.

    Best thing right now is for Riley to step down. The future could be real bright but not with Riley running things. The program is flat out embarrassing. Just have to hope he steps down for the future of the football program. I’m thoroughly disgusted with things right now.

  • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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    If there was another team in college football I’ root for it would be the Houston Cougars. I love their head coach and QB. They’re fun to watch and he always has his offense prepared. He was down to his third string QB last year and they were still racking up the points.

  • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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    I disagree with fans who say all hope is lost for this year’s Beavers team. I think we need to wait until September 24 and the UCLA game before reaching such a conclusion.

    UCLA yesterday struggled to beat a bad team from San Jose State. UCLA plays Texas next (while the Beavers have a bye week). And then UCLA comes to Reser on September 24.

    It is a fair statement to say that a loss to UCLA will doom this year’s Beaver team (and will likely have lots of other repercussions on OSU’s football program). Riley surely knows this.

    Expect Riley to do everything he can to beat UCLA. That includes officially promoting Mannion to #1 QB and playing Mannion for the whole game. That also includes playing James Rodgers, Joe Halahuni, and Malcolm Agnew. Perhaps it will also include Riley taking play-calling duties away from Langsdorf and calling the plays himself. Whatever it takes.

    If the Beavers fail to beat UCLA on September 24, it will officially be doom and gloom time. If the Beavers beat UCLA (and, perhaps, even do so in a convincing fashion), Beaver fans are going to feel a lot more upbeat than they do today.

    • Gabriel Gabriel says:
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      I will be going to the UCLA game. The guys better be pumped and ready to tear off some Bruin heads….just win!!!! I would like to see some similar play by the defense from first half at Wisconsin, and big improvement on 3rd downs on both sides of the ball. If we can’t be competitive and win at home….we are doomed!!!!

    • angry angry says:
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      I think both camps are half right.

      It is clear this staff will never make a Rose Bowl (at least not without “backing in” to one), but the season isn’t officially over until the Beavs have 2 conference loses since the Ducks will likely lose 2 as well.

      • slamadam says:
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        who do you see the ducks losing to besides stanford?

        • JackBeav says:
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          Arizona, Wazzu, USC

        • angry angry says:
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          ASU and USC have the athletes to compete. Both games are in Eugene, which will make it tough. Cal always plays them well. Stanford can compete on offense but they’re too slow on D. Stanford’s home field advantage doesn’t amount to anything.

          The rest of the league looks bad on paper, but Oregon always seems to have unexpected trouble with a game or two.

          All things considered, I think they slip up at least once and probably twice.

          • WFO WFO says:
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            Oregon will roll Arizona,they looked like shit vs Ok St.

            If Arizona St plays mistake free football they can beat the Ducks.

          • angry angry says:
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            Agreed, Arizona had 3LBs who looked equal in talent to Reuben Robinson. They probably have the worst LBs in the conference.

    • Beakerdo says:
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      “Expect Riley to do everything he can to beat UCLA.”

      I expect Riley to do everything he can to beat Every opposing team. It should not matter who they are playing. But he doesn’t and that’s why there so much frustration in beaver nation.

      There is hope for this team. The team needs leadership. The announcers were saying how w/ out the rodgi there’s no playmakers. That is true. Playmakers do more than just score. They are passionate, vocal, and convert 3rd downs. (stroughter, hass, etc) So the fact that james rod is still on the team, there is hope.

      Riley says he treats every game like it’s the Superbowl. He can’t do this because he’s never coached a team that made a Superbowl. I understand this is coach speak but it’s hard to believe him when his team consistently comes out flat.

      I can only hope that the donors for OSU do not leave. I would hope that instead they would use their standing as leverage to BD. I’m glad that the fans are not content with how things are going. From what I hear there was a time when no one cared about winning except civil war. Now I hear the same mentality of “as long as they beat the ducks i’ll be happy”. That’s a loser mentality. Winning is a culture. It’s competition at every level.

  • ealexanders says:
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    A name I haven’t heard thrown around yet as a possible HC, Greg McMackin. Extensive history as a defensive coach at both college and pro levels. Not to shabby on offense either.

    Plus, this is amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN0s0_aD0uk

  • StarcraftSquall says:
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    Keep in mind, none of us expected to really win at Wisconsin going into the season, even at full strength. Yesterday, however, it kinda felt like we brought a water pistol to a gun fight given everyone who was missing. Like what has been said before, this is not an excuse it is a reason. The defense actually held up pretty well for the first half of the game considering the offense couldn’t stay on the field AT ALL. I’m just trying to look for bright spots, here.

  • angry angry says:
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    Ted Miller on the Beavs: Oregon State, at least at present, is the new Washington State: The Beavers are 0-2 with a big thud. The Cougars are 2-0 with big grins. The Beavers lost to an FCS team, then got shut out. They have a big-time quarterback controversy. They are clearly alone in the basement of the Pac-12, living in the moldy apartment Washington State leased for a long time. The Cougars blew out two foes without their starting QB and have a good shot at a 3-0 start if they can win at a good San Diego State team on Saturday. They’re talking about moving into a better neighborhood.

    Combined with Meyer/Speilman’s comments, Beavs have taken a huge national hit the past two weeks. Not surprising, obviously, but it still sucks to be embarrassed this badly.

    • Gman says:
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      Ouch!

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      The talking heads read the history. The Beavers are 5-11 in the last 16 games, that is getting close to two seasons of football at below .333. Don’t forget, four straight losses and two shutouts. Even marginal Riley teams in the past could always score a few points no matter who the opponent was. Another loss to another inept UCLA team and the OSU program is in free fall.

    • StarcraftSquall says:
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      Can’t say we’ve given them any evidence to prove otherwise.

  • Gman says:
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    Hekker made record for the worst non-blocked punt in college history.

  • issaquahbeav says:
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    Unfortunately, ucla should not be the measuring stick. A win against a sub-par bruin team does not mean the Beavs are back; however, I guess it’s a start. Keep in mind, ucla has been our achilles heal over the number of years.

    Before this year started, I thought people here were way too negative. I guess they were pretty much spot on. Yes, it’s early still but I haven’t seen much to get excited about whereas OCC games in previous years, the offense looked servicable.

    As much as I’d like to believe Rodgers and Halahuni will help, it’s going to take those guys awhile to get back into the groove, not to mention chemistry with whoever our QB is.

    With that said, I took down my OSU house flag, but ONLY because I wanted to fly the American flag in honor of 9/11. Tomorrow, the orange and black goes back up for the rest of the season, win or loss.

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      I don’t see UCLA as a measuring stick — I do see UCLA as a team the Beavers can and should beat at home (especially with the Beavs coming off a bye week, while UCLA has to play Texas before coming to Reser).

      After UCLA, the Beavs head to Arizona State, which will be more of a measuring stick. And then the Beavers get another winnable game: Arizona at Reser. Next PAC-12 game after that for the Beavers (after playing BYU at Reser) is at Washington State, which also should be winnable (although the Cougs are no longer a walkover by any means…)

      In other words, because of this year’s schedule, the Beavs have a reasonable chance to go 3-1 in their first four PAC-12 games. Even 4-0 is not out of the question. But it all needs to begin on September 24 at Reser by beating UCLA. If we lose to UCLA, forget it…..

      • issaquahbeav says:
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        I guess you and I are watching two different football teams. I think UCLA and OSU is a toss up, but at this point, wins against BYU (home), ASU (road) and WSU (road) are unlikely. Now, if the Beavs get their shit together against UCLA and build some chemistry/momentum, then perhaps they stand a better chance against future opponents. I need to see proof of an offense before I start calling out wins against any team. The defense is OSU’s only hope, as I think that unit is decent and will get better based on the maturation of Wynn et al.

        • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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          I think we are watching the same team, and we more or less agree.

          To be specific, I agree with what you said here: “if the Beavs get their shit together against UCLA and build some chemistry/momentum, then perhaps they stand a better chance against future opponents. I need to see proof of an offense before I start calling out wins against any team. The defense is OSU’s only hope, as I think that unit is decent and will get better based on the maturation of Wynn et al.”

          For me, it all comes down to the UCLA game. Either the Beavs get it together by September 24, or it’s over. Could go either way. If I were forced to bet, I’d bet that the Beavs do come together in the next two weeks, and beat UCLA convincingly. But that depends on a number of assumptions (including the return of JRod, Agnew, and Halahuni, and the promotion of Mannion to official #1 QB).

          If the Beavs get it together by September 24, it is quite possible that the Beavs could be 3-1 in PAC-12 play a few weeks later. If the Beavs flop against UCLA, it is quite possible that the Beavs go 0-12 this season. I think Riley knows this, too. The next couple of weeks are big ones for Riley and the Beavs……

      • Meat Whistle says:
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        Dude, really? You see the Beavers having winnable games? We have no running game or passing game. The defense is slightly improved…. maybe. I just don’t see it man, I don’t see any games where I would pick the Beavs straight up. We may win 2-3 games this year…. if we are lucky.

  • Gman says:
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    http://media.oregonlive.com/behindbeaversbeat/photo/mike-riley-bob-de-carolisjpg-038000ffd1a34f38.jpg

    This single picture shows the two problems with OSU

  • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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    From Cliff’s GT article: “With the way the game was going, we couldn’t get into the game with Ryan like we wanted to,” Riley said. “We got behind and we wanted Sean to throw it. It had nothing to do with performance.”

    Come-on…. really Riley… get a spine!

    Read more: http://www.gazettetimes.com/sports/article_035f9f54-dbe1-11e0-a76a-001cc4c03286.html#ixzz1XfHRPf00

    • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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      And check out what Bishop is saying in the same article… pretty telling. He just wants the coaches to get off their asses and make some decisions is what I read.

      • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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        Agreed. I was very surprised that Bishop said this “on the record”. Very telling. This is just more reason to think that Riley will pull the trigger soon (in the next few days) and anoint Mannion officially as #1 QB.

    • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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      Look here’s what fans need to realize, stop looking forward to wins, stop comparing QB’s to each other, and stop looking for coaching changes. I think Riley knows this team is low on talent without the top players who are injured. So, he is going to look to get his new players experience.

      I agree with angry on the fundamentals, look at Cooks the four star recruit. He dropped several catchable balls, ran the fly sweep but missed blocking reads, and didn’t get seperation. I don’t think the level of talent on this team is very high. Regarding Mannion, he looks fine to me, but it also looks like the game hasn’t slowed down enough for him and that is why you seem him late on some reads. WHat he needs is some game experience. His poise and how he stands in the pocket is a strength, but until he has some time to adjust to the game speed we will have to wait. I agree with the earlier post that Katz may have had some overconfidence and didn’t work to hone his skills, but I don’t know if that is due to the fact that he was rehabbing or not so I don’t want to come down on him.

      Regarding the dropping the donors statement, what a mistake. I know that is a strong way to put pressure on the program to make changes, but it should be a last resort. Fans need to be loyal and stick with the program through the tough times, its a marriage and your in it for the long haul and its too easy to get a divorce just because the team doesn’t win every week. is it hard, frustrating, and tough, you bet! But most things in life are better when you can perserve. I think its a little hypocritical to say that you want the team play with more heart or fire or fundamentals, yet you are not willing show those same attributes as a fan of that very team. The last thing we want to do is abandon the team, that will only set back the program and make it harder to comeback after changes. Look at the SEC, their programs are supported 100% regardless of how they do, and then if a change is made (which happens quite frankly alot) and then when a change is made successful turnaround can happen quickly. Put pressure on the administration and the coaching staff but dont’ leave the program at disadvantage because of lack of support from donations or not showing up to games.

      I think Riley has done all he can with the program and we need somebody else to take it to another level and recruit some higher level of talent. However, he isn’t going anywhere this year, so let’s just focus on how we can get better for Ucla and take it one game at a time, and hopefully the team will improve and grow. I dont’ think and have never thought (although he almost proved me wrong) that Riley will be able to lead this program to a championship.

      I am kinda rambling to I will jump off, those are my two cents.

      • angry angry says:
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        Why do fans need to be blindly loyal to Riley, a guy who bailed on the program in the past?

        Fans are so afraid of change (it’s as if they’ve taken on the identity of the head coach). A fan does not need to support a bad product. You could make an argument people who do this are bad fans. It’s rational to stop wasting money on a product with no return or inadequate return.

        I’ve seen enough to know this team will never be great under Riley. That takes joy out of the game, and it is a disservice to fans and donors. If we want to put lipstick on a pig and rearrange coordinators, fine. I’d sit back and see how that works out (my guess is not well).

        There’s an influx of talent coming into the program, but I’ve finally nailed down the problem: no attention to detail and no accountability.

        It’s engrained, and talent won’t change it. Might just mask it a little longer.

        There are coaches/opponents who want it much more and work harder, so they take what is theirs versus Oregon State.

        • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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          I didn’t say blindly follow a product you don’t like, I said put pressure on the administration adn the coaches, but use not donating as a last resort. Call out Riley, BDC, and the president Ray. I am just saying don’t turn your back on the program. But if thtat’s what you feel you have to do to make the changes then I can respect that, it just puts the whole program behind the eight ball.

          I don’t see your influx of talent. I see smaller sized, speedy athletes that still need to work on their craft. What makes Agnew a good back is he has good vision, and against Sac St his size wasn’t a factor and it may not be against pac12 level, however he was unable to stay healthy and did have a fumble. I don’t see the talent influx at any defensive position, yes Wynn looked good and we will see if he can do it for a length of the season. Outside of that I don’t think talent level in defense is there. Offensively, the talent is there on some of the skill positions but not much anywhere else. So, I don’t think the talent is there. Does that fall on the coach, you bet it does, big time. Do I want to see a new coach absolutely, would like to see them go after a Chris Peterson with huge jack. But if you don’t donate to the program where are we going to get the necessary jack to get a Peterson?? Riley’s proved he can win 7,8,9 games a year, but he’s also proven he can’t win in September and can’t win the double digits that are necessary for a championship. The reality is that the administration is not about to make a change this season, now you can cheer for the team and if it brings moderate success then you have to take the medocricty of 6-6 or 7-5 or dismantle the whole program and start over with a new coach. I don’t want any new coach just for the sake of change (like some Ast Coor or Linfield coach) I would like to see somebody proven like a Chris Peterson, but its going to take some serious coin to get him. I don’t see it happening. Regardless, I am still going to support the program in an effort to make sure it does fall even further behind.

          • Gabriel Gabriel says:
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            I hear you….Im still going to games regardless of who’s coaching and what the record is. Although I see the tact in influence via money, whether it be not going to games or not giving to BASF, I dont believe in that strategy. The players and the program need us to support them regardless even if we have to go to games in person and boo the playcalling. I will be at UCLA, etc. Go Beavs!

  • WFO WFO says:
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    Is anyone able to make it to a practice this week?

    I think we need to know if Katz is physically able to make a throw or if he’s injured. I can’t think of any other reason for Riley to handle this QB situation the way he has. I’m not a huge Katz fan,but if you start him at least let him get his feet wet before you pull him.

    They supposedly put together these new offensive packages that I’d have to say were effective based on the first series Katz ran,only to have him benched so Mannion could go in and sputter along with the same old shit playcalling.

    Riley’s “we had to play Mannion so we could throw” bullshit isn’t flushing either. Katz got a first down in the first series…leave him in and see how it goes. It looked to me like Riley was afraid Katz would do well and expose him for the dipshit decision maker that he is.

    Am I taking crazy pills here?

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      Also, Katz was not what you would call a running QB last year and the ESPN guys were making it sound like he was not a threat to pass, yet before the season the experts would rave about him having one of the best arms in the nation. None of this makes a damn bit of sense. Either Katz is still injured, he lost the team or he pissed off the coaching staff. Riley just needs to just go with Mannion and move on. Is he trying to throw Katz a bone so he stays in the program? I’m sorry, but if I were Katz, I would go gun-sling at the D-2 school next year and hope to impress some scout down the line..

  • Orange Lantern says:
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    Riley has to be held accountable and retire or be fired. He wouldn’t even make a passable WAC coach. I would pass on him if I was Corvallis High. Dead serious. He is a loser and has taken the university hostage. BDC thought up the worst deal in the history of college sports and also should pack his bags. Ed Ray needs to man up and take control of what has become the biggest joke on the D1(FBS) level.

    USC recently had turmoil and they took the steps that were needed. New coach, new AD and even a new president. We don’t need a new president, but we certainly need a new coach and should get a new AD too. He made a colossal mistake. All for scoring 3 points in a Sun Bowl and getting into the 5th place Pac-10 Vegas bowl and getting hammered by BYU. Riley is horrible and everyone is dead tired of his gee golly we tried, learning process, same old pile of doo with no accountability.

    http://beaverbyte.com

    • angry angry says:
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      USC hired Lane, who is a worse coach than Riley. Plus they wanted Riley. Plus they have sanctions. I’m not sure they’re a good example of a competent athletic department.

    • sparkyd73 says:
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      Orange Lantern,
      We get it. Riley is bad, needs to go. DeCarolis is bad, needs to go. Does that about capture it? Why post the same stuff over and over and over and over and then blog about the same stuff over and over on beaverbyte. Then you make outlandish statements like he should not even be a high school coach? And then you talk about USC, who wanted Riley and settled on Kiffin.

      I’m not saying that I disagree with your message, but when you continue to harp on one thing without adding any relevant info with your message, it becomes stale.

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    I hear the frustration and anger on not being compeititve in September … when will it end? But that lack of sccess, and even getting blown out by good teams is not different this year.

    Seems to me there is a chance that Riley deliberately aims at the conference season as the really important part, and doesnt care that we get blown out by OOC teams, or even losing to a Sac State.

    So far, the season has gone somewhat as expected, except I expected a close game with Sac State, not a loss. I am waiting for UCLA to see what the team will be.

    This is all on the coaches. Before last year they were able to rally the team and turn things around. I think the UCLA game will tell us if that can happen again. Maybe we are indeed back to ranking in the bottom ten.

  • b pragmatic says:
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    can someone corroborate this? at one point i thought i saw on the tube that mannion was something like 5 for 15 in pass completions. later on i saw where he was something like 15 for 26. he finished 25 for 38. so after tthe first 15 or so passes he was about 20 for 23 in completions? that would be pretty darn good for the second game as a freshman in a venue like that. would it not?

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      In the first half, Mannion completed 7 out of 16 passes for 80 yards. In the second half, Mannion completed 18 out of 22 passes for 164 yards. Mannion’s game totals: 25 of 38 for 244 yards.

      Yes, Mannion has his flaws (overly long delivery, slow afoot, minimal college game experience). And the Beaver offense under Mannion’s leadership got shutout yesterday by Wisconsin. But the TV announcers (including Urban Meyer) were saying positive things about Mannion for a reason.

      Mannion’s second-half passing numbers (18 out of 22 passes for 164 yards) were pretty darn outstanding.

      • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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        Mannion was real solid after a bad opening. But, he was done no favors by Langsdorf(shocking, I know). He had a lot of success throwing the ball vertically or 15+ yard routes. He threw a couple good corner routes to Bishop and showed good touch. However, it seemed like the majority of the routes were just short ones that had no chance. Neither QB is going to have a truly great game until Langsdorf finally gets a brain or his play calling duties are gone. He’s been horrible the first two games. Much worse this year than he was last year and that says something.

      • b pragmatic says:
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        thanks for the info.

  • Orange Lantern says:
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    I am not saying USC is great al all. More of a statement that change is commonly needed at many places. Sometimes you have to change a coach. Sometimes a coach and an AD. In this case they changed all including the president. OSU should start with a coaching change and if all goes better for a couple years we may not have to also change the AD. I am not a BDC supporter from the perspective of he tied himself and the university to Riley despite the sever warnings of Al Reser and others not to do anything too long. Me made this bed so I think it could be well justified if he also took a relief of his duties. The longer he waits to do something with Riley and bring in a new head coach the more I will believe he also should move on. It seems like he has enough distractions in his life and may benefit from a less demanding position. It isn’t our job sell out our standards or hopes so Riley and BDC can run this show primarily for their own concerns while football performance on the field rapidly turns us into a laughingstock.

    I think we agree that since Riley is never taking us past a very minor bowl in the next several years plus (IMO we won’t get past a New Mexico or Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl), it is best to cut bait now then torture the fans and prevent positive change, momentum and excitement. Riley has always been boring, especially in personality, and when the team is as horrible as it is it is just a double whammy to the experience as a fan. It is nowhere near good enough to inspire any confidence or build support during what should be exciting times in the PAC-12. He did what he could. If he isn’t wise enough to hand it off to someone else soon then he will lose any of the good graces he may have left. Fans are tired of playing with no attention to detail and with poor execution and purpose. They take the field and are mostly going through the motions. Riley seems clueless or unable to organize their efforts into anything tangible. It doesn’t help that Langsdork and Banker are so incompetent and technique, playcalling and philosophy has been mocked on National TV by coaching legends.

    James Rogders put this team on his shoulders for awhile and got some help from Quizz for awhile but after Washington last year it has been a total nosedive. The program is officially in the gutter. Only a new head coach who can provide a fresh start will solve our biggest issues because the biggest issues are that Riley and his staff need to go. They aren’t going to do anything special at all in the next 7 plus years so we owe it to these athletes to not have them playing in a toxic environment where a bad coach clings to a program. If we care about the future a fresh future needs to begin after this year and not be drug out and cause irreparable harm and a disallusioned fan base that will rapidly lose interest and cut back support. There could be 10,000 less seats sold next year. Get the right coach and we have a chance to get true momentum and excitemen. If a new coach does it right and is accountable for wins AND losses hopefully we can expand with a proud program in five, six or at most seven years as BDC says he hopes to.

    • sparkyd73 says:
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      Much better comment. Actually a reasoned explanation of your thoughts rather than ridiculous statements of Riley being an idiot with a coaching IQ of 57.

      I think Riley is a program changer. He did a great job in the late 90’s in taking a program that was a horrible mess and changing the culture to one that people began to care and even expect to win. Dennis Erickson was then able to take that up a level. Unfortunately, DE is not a coach that can maintain and I think Riley did a good job in coming in and stabilizing another mess. But, I don’t think that Riley has the focus to take the program to the next level. Certainly, he will not do it with his current coordinators.

      I do think Riley is a good face for the program and I do appreciate the class that he brings to the organization. But, to take the program forward some major changes need to take place.

  • Orange Lantern says:
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    DuckingBeaver calls out Riley along with everyone else:

    Riley has been at OSU long enough, and has had multiple chances at games like these, to come to the conclusion that he can not win the big road games on National TV that are needed to take OSU to the next level.

    http://duckingbeaver.com/2011/09/10/on-4th-and-8-he-throws-short-for-some-reason/

    (He not only isn’t taking us to the next level, but he may not even take us to 2 wins this year. We stink and Riley has learned so much in 11 years that we are in rapid reverse where some aren’t ruling out 0-12. Riley needs to hand the baton over soon or he will lose all of the little credibility he still has. )

  • BeavGirl BeavGirl says:
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    anyone post this yet http://www.firemikeriley.com/

  • ObjCritic says:
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    I think its easy to forget that this program has been in a slow steady decline, buoyed only by the Rodgers’ brothers talent, work ethic, and attitude.

    The last GOOD bowl game win was the Sun Bowl victory over Missouri. Yveson-fucking-Bernard was the running back and Matt Moore the QB. I have to go back to the days of Dogett to think about the time “Linebacker U West” actually fielded fast, good linebackers. When I think about that, it makes me realize how, when viewed in isolation, the slow steady decline has blinded us to to fact that if the PROGRAM is is moving away from quality and is declining rapidly in specific and contextual relief (e.g. UO has grown since). We keep thinking we’re a year removed from a big season, when in fact we’re several years removed from a “big” season that took scheduling an extra game at Hawaii to get 10 wins.

    Yes, there were two near-trips to the Rose Bowl; and OSU choked away both under Riley/Banker and without J & J Rodgers, the team had no where near the talent across the board to have a real shot at the Rose Bowl.

    This chickenshit pisses me off:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2011/09/oregon_state_football_mike_ril.html

    Also, there’s this:

    “Normally, getting on ESPN is a good thing.

    But as Wisconsin was methodically handing Oregon State its first non-conference shutout defeat in a quarter-century, the ESPN analysts were at a loss to explain the Beavers’ game plan.

    “What’s the point? I mean, why do you start the kid?” Chris Spielman said, referring to the cameo appearance by OSU quarterback Ryan Katz. “If you’re going to bring (Sean) Mannion in after three downs, then start Mannion.”

    The other analyst in the booth, former Florida coach Urban Meyer, couldn’t shed any light on it.”
    From http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2011/09/oregon_state_beavers_rundown_6.html

    Revist the whole thing again? This guy has no real plan, and therefore his team can’t find an identity.

    Consider:

    Riley still can’t win on the road in September, or get his team to perform early in the season, even with his own recruits. You have to have Wisconsin “circled on your calendar” in spring. How can you not? They run an offense very similar to OSU’s – how can Banker not be ready? You’re going to be on national tv – again. Do you really want to be embarrassed, again?

    Banker still can’t defend a running qb or a spread offense with any consistent success. Does anyone REALLY think he’s going to have some kind of epiphany and shut down UO like BSU or LSU did, I mean really just take away their run game and make James et al look bad? I don’t either;

    The DB’s still can’t play the ball in the air. For some reason, they can’t be taught to have a clock in their heads – “After four seconds, you can look for the ball, because either our d-lineman or blitzers are going to be there, and if they’re not, the QB’s throwing anyway because he’s got the clock going in his head.” No, they’re taught to face guard and get PI’s or just give up the pass and chase. Who sees this changing with Riley and Banker?

    There’s some talent on the roster now, and more on the way if they don’t change their commitments. Thus far, the incoming class looks like one of the best in terms of across-the-board, legitimate talent and importantly, includes young men with winning attitudes who are used to success – these attributes are key to chaning the “we’re-lunchpail-U-underdogs-who-get-an-upset-victory-once-in-a-while-but-can’t-win-with-pressure” attitude.

    This program is rife with complacency; Riley has a lifetime contract, and by extension, so do his coaches. The coordinators need to go, and Riley needs to get some aggressive replacements that compliment his calm demeanor and have the ability to motivate young men.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      I kind of wonder if the program caught lightening in a bottle with the Rodgers Brothers and it held off a decline by a couple of years. Also, how was Riley able to coach up the “two star athletes” for so many years and now is unable to do it? My gut tells me there has been a serious drop off in talent and no level of coaching is going to make up for it.

      • Gman says:
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        Every dog has it’s day.

      • angry angry says:
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        I don’t think it has anything to do with talent, actually.

        This started with the 2009 BYU game. Riley was devastated after missing the Rose Bowl, and hasn’t been the same since. That’s when the 33% winning percentage began.

        I don’t know if Riley even realizes that he’s not preparing as hard. Could be a subconscious thing where he knows how much effort (and luck) it took to get to that point. I think he is depressed/defeated and more unprepared than ever. I think it’s subconscious. The guy has never had fire, but he at least needs to find the tinder bundle within.

        • BeavGirl BeavGirl says:
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          this is what i have been thinking for a while now but have been unable to really put it in words. think you’re exactly right, angry

  • jasonthebeaver jasonthebeaver says:
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    Subscribing

  • numbers says:
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    At least the Beavs beat Sacramento State in Futbol. I wonder how much better our soccer coach could run the offense. I wonder how much improvement we’d see if we threw away the playbook and just had mannion use his hand to show routes in the huddle. Given our current “identity” (god I hate that Rileyism), I’d say we our best play caller would be James Rodgers. Make him Offensive Coordinator for the rest of the season…

    • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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      LOL!! That would probably scare the other team worse than knowing the OSU coaches are calling the plays…..OMG — that kid might come up with something that actually WORKS!

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    Riley has won some tough games so in the past he was pretty good, esp with no 4 star players. But I totally agree, it looks like something has gone away. You have to play with passion and for a lot of players, that comes from the coach — either from a competitive personality or from knowing he has really done the game-plan, and you can win. Step down, Mike.

  • StarcraftSquall says:
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    Here is the updated Pac-12 Power Rank Poll Statistics after Week 2 Results:

    STAN 143.95
    ORE 143.91
    AZST 134.40
    USC 128.70
    UTAH 127.60
    WASH 125.93
    ARIZ 124.97
    WAST 123.34
    UCLA 122.12
    CAL 121.36
    ORST 120.76
    COL 118.84

  • JackBeav says:
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    All right…
    I don’t think it’s as bad as some think it is, but I’m suddenly afraid of what I see in our coaches.

    After watching the game, I had to think that the whole sequence showed either stupidity or cynicism on Riley’s part. There was no innocent or naive wont for something great to evolve out of the sequence of events that occurred. What happened happened as planned… right down to not kicking field goals on the last couple drives just to avoid the shut-out.

    Since I refuse to think Riley is stupid, i have to think he was a cynic in this game. He knew we were going to lose, and he did nothing to mitigate that loss. In fact, he did everything to protect the psyche of his frosh QB, even to spite any chance at a win. Mannion did not start because his tender mind doesn’t need to suffer a loss as a starter. He was yanked at odd times not because we needed Katz to come in to hand off for a one yard run. He was yanked so that he could be instructed while the game was occurring. And he was yanked to absolve him of any fault for what was going to be a loss.

    Is there anyone anywhere speaking poorly of Mannion? Did he lose the game?

    The answer to both is no. He was never given the chance to win or lose. He was given an out without knowing he was given an out. As often as the announcers qualified their criticism of Mike Riley’s decisions in this game with, “but Mike Riley is one of the most respected coaches there is, and he must know what he’s doing,” they also missed the point. Except for that Urban Meyer guy.

    He got to watching Mannion play, and his rhetoric turned from criticism of some coaching to praise and wonder for a young QB. The other announcers continued their vocal bewilderment for the QB turns, but Meyer became silent on it after a while. Now, it may not be due to Mannion having a stellar second half. It might just be due to Meyer getting bored with saying the same thing more than once. But it might also be due to Urban actually “getting it” like I think I did early in the game.

    Everything Riley did with the QB’s was done to give Mannion cover and confidence. I don’t thimk this continues to UCLA, but it might if Riley thinks Mannion isn’t ready. What’s the better story? Your R/S frosh takes over with three games left (according to stats) and goes 35-8 over his career? Or is he responsible for all games regardless of starts, and we record him at 39-14?

    Taking him out in the middle of drives killed not only the drive. It killed any potential criticism of Mannion. Who in their right mind would think to criticize him (or Katz for that matter) after that debacle?

    I fully expect Mannion to take over for league play. Maybe Riley finds a reason to not “start” him against BYU. But with two weeks to go for our first league game, Mannion should get the nod. If it doesn’t happen, then I just give up.

    I mean… it’s not as if football is higher than fifth on my list for sports I like to watch from my university. But I understand its importance in that regard, and I understand it as a result.

    Speaking of… if you withhold from football, please give to track and field. Word it meanly toward football, but give to the school. I’ve never understood the dislike for Bob DeCarolis. He hires good people, and he gets stuck with others due to an institutional wont for something quick after partial glimmers of hope. I have to think that contract extensions wouldn’t be an issue if he wasn’t told to create them. He is perfectly suited to be a Pac 12 AD, and he has done it well. But someone somewhere is telling him to lock these coaches up. No AD in his right mind makes these contracts. But somebody was just afraid of returning to the streak. Instead of kissing goodbye to coaches who might have chased the money/fame/glory. And that somebody needs to get over it.

    I don’t care what you think of OSU sports. It can always be better. And if you weren’t standing with me and a friend when we were losing to UW at home in 1991, then you can’t tell me that even the oldies are goodies. There are times when you stand in the driving rain while you lose 58-6, and you think, “Nobody ever can question my loyalty.”

    Yet it happens time and again. What’s up with that? Ignorant people!

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      “I fully expect Mannion to take over for league play….[W]ith two weeks to go for our first league game, Mannion should get the nod. If it doesn’t happen, then I just give up.”

      I agree. I expect Riley, this week, to anoint Mannion as #1 QB and starter for the PAC-12 season. That’s what should happen, and that’s almost certainly what will happen.

      Why didn’t Riley do that last week? Protecting Mannion was definitely a big part of it. Not just protecting Mannion from external criticism, but protecting Mannion from putting pressure on himself. If Riley last week had anointed Mannion as the starter and full-time QB, Mannion would have felt a lot more pressure than he did heading into the Wisconsin game. My guess is that Riley didn’t tell Mannion, coming into the game, that he (Mannion) was going to get 95% of the snaps. But I think that was Riley’s plan all along (no matter what Riley says about “situational” substitution of the QBs).

      I also think that Riley saw Wisconsin as both a baptism by fire and a test for Mannion. Riley was 90% sure that Mannion was ready to take over. But Riley wanted to leave himself an “out” if Mannion failed the test. If Mannion had face-planted against Wisconsin, the alleged QB platoon system would have allowed Riley to pull Mannion, insert Katz, and explain — after the game — that Mannion simply wasn’t quite ready. Katz would go back to being #1 QB for the PAC-12 season, and Mannion would revert to apprentice and backup status. It would have been much harder to do that if Mannion had been named #1 QB before the Wisconsin game.

      Given the circumstances (including a non-existent running game, a tough venue, and a national TV audience), Mannion’s performance was very good. Mannion passed the test. Riley can now go ahead and name Mannion as the #1 QB. And that’s almost certainly what Riley will do in the next few days, or so it seems to me….

      • sparkyd73 says:
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        I don’t think Riley was looking for an out for himself at all in the WI game. I think Jack has made a very astute observation and is probably right on the money. I think Riley fully understood that he was going to get butchered during/after that game. But, all of those young players are for the most part flying under the radar of scorn. If anything they are all being felt sorry for.

        Riley feels safe, worst case scenario for him is that he is sent into retirement a little early with a hefty golden parachute.

  • WFO WFO says:
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    At this point I’m convinced that Riley was scared that Katz would play well vs Wisconsin.

    I’d say he had his mind made up who he wanted to play but he’s just being a pussy about it. He figured the “new plays” wouldn’t work and he could justify pulling Katz to play his guy.

    After that first down it was “oh shit get my guy in there quick” and don’t let Katz back in for any time to get some rhythm.

    Seems pretty chickenshit to me.

  • numbers says:
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    Great post. I just watched the first half again, this time paired with the radio broadcast. I’m looking forward to seeing development of the defensive front 4. There was some great play early with that 6-5 322lb wisconsin line forced to do some serious holding. (of course the J stricherz crew only gets half the calls at best). That was a positive. But there were so many big negatives early too.

    If it hadn’t been for worst possible senarios on special teams, not calling play action passes on 3-10 along with other horrible play calling, Not getting 11-yard sacked on 2-3, just a little better secondary play, and clock and timeout management- then it could have been a very close game at the half. I’ll watch the 2nd half again tomorrow.

    Another big positive in terms of Psyche though, is that Mannion should have been picked off several times early on and was lucky that Wisconsin made mistakes.

    I gotta believe that Hecker rollout rugby kicks are designed to set up a fake punt someday. (Not worth the tradeoff).

    I’m really strecthing to find any position to give the staff a favorable view. In fact it seems so bad, it could be backwardsly genius (intentional or not). With the plays that were called and the way this team has been run, there is plenty of film example of worse case senario and blantant examples of what not to do. In fact, this team is quickly becoming expierenced by negative reinforcement. Some kids learn the stove is hot by listening, these kids are learning its hot by their 2nd and 3rd degree burns. In 2008 the Beavs started 0-2 and of course we remember the Rose bowl run that almost was. This years version is nothing like that team. But it leavs me wondering with how bad its gone. Did the coaching staff intend to lose at Wisconsin. Were they treating Sac St and Wisc as pre-season scrimmages hoping to build the team through the season. I wonder if they planned to be able beat sac st just because, and planned to learn at Wisc and hope for a lucky bounce. Did they intentionally call the worst possible plays at Wisc in order to learn from them? It was so bad its almost imposible to be accidental. Seriously.

    For me UCLA is make or break it for Riley. I’m currently blamming him and Langsdork. He sounded spot on in his halftime exit comments. I know Riley has some football smarts somewhere. But is he giving this team a chance? Whats with all the time off? Are they not getting adequate practice time? Is he affraid of NCAA practice rules that no other program follows?

    • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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      “For me UCLA is make or break it for Riley.”

      Agreed. The UCLA game is a huge one for Riley, and for the program. It’s an inflection point. Lose to UCLA and everything could fall apart (with 0-12 becoming a real possibility). Beat UCLA and there will suddenly be hope (with a real possibility of being 3-1 in PAC-12 play by next month).

      Riley has two weeks to get ready for UCLA (including getting JRod, Halahuni, and Agnew prepared to play, and handing over the reins of the offense to Mannion, as the new #1 QB). Meanwhile, UCLA has to play Texas this Saturday, and then has to come to Reser the following week. We need to take advantage of all this, and take care of business against UCLA.

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        It’s huge for Riley to prove that he can get a team excited about a clearly winnable game at home with as you indicate many circumstances in his favor. You have to start some place. If he can’t even do that, then I agree with everyone here who thinks that Riley has lost the fire. If that becomes the case, it is a deeper issue than coordinators. They take their cues from the boss.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Given that Riley is going to “visit the whole thing (QB issue) again,” the next two weeks essentially become a fall camp for the Beavs. Does Riley turn it around in two weeks if he couldn’t figure it out with fall camp? I doubt it. Not because he’s incapable, but right now he just really seems to be reaching blindly in the dark for answers. There’s no plan, he’s just reacting to the failure of his previous reaction. Plus, pressure games are not his forte. He knows if the poor play continues against UCLA, the wheels likely come off for the season.

  • JackBeav says:
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    Eggers confirms a lot, and can’t get a real answer for the QB in-game swap.
    http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story_2nd.php?story_id=131579648497066700

    James for a sixth year? I say play him now, and if his knee can’t hold up then he has time to work on it before next year. There’s just no way to know until he goes.

    Hardin for a sixth year? According to the rules, that’s a big no. But the NCAA has granted players that year under similar circumstances. So I guess none of us has a definitive answer.

    I’m more than impressed with the personnel on our front four. I was scared of the depth being a bunch of walk-ons and smaller guys. But they faced an amazing o-line at Camp Randall, and they worked it pretty well. Unga was a huge disappointment in coverage, but he was more than solid in run D. And Collins and Doctor also keyed on the run well. But the edges are still a question of scheme. I guess the most telling play was the one where the TE just ran away from Robinson.

    But then Robinson is just awesome. Isn’t he?

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      I think the term for bad linebacker play going forward should be “Pank’d” As in the the team really got “Pank’d” by Robinson’s inability to get to the edge in yesterday’s game.

  • SanDiegoBeav says:
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    I love Riley’s quote about the team improving: “If we do that,’’ Riley said. “We can be a pretty good team, I think.’’

    Wow, way to instill some confidence in your team and demand results! This tells the team that even if you improve, you still might be a shitty team. This “I Think” mentality is getting old.

  • JackBeav says:
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    I still have hope for this season as a team. It’s obviously a rebuilding year, and we all thought it was going to be that way when it started. But going with Mannion from here on out will give Riley cover for this year as well as give our team an opportunity to grow. I think he’s the best chance for us to win on a regular basis as things stand right now. But I also think he should stay in the game when Katz comes in rather than go to the sideline like he did at W. Katz should be brought in as a wildcat sort of option instead of as the QB. His skills are still utilized, but we get to keep Mannion in rhythm by hitting a CB just for the helluvit.

    Another interesting angle was Urban Meyer’s contribution as an analyst. I’m normally not a fan of coaches (and especially players) in the booth. For example, I really can’t stand the droning tone of Brian Billick’s call, but I learn SO much about the game by just listening to that drone. I do not get that from Troy Aikman, but that’s another story. Meyer’s comments really hit home about the condition of our team. And I think that might have had something to do with Riley’s post-game mindset. The conditional statements by Meyer and the other announcers showed us the immense caché Riley carries in the college football world. They wanted to call him out unconditionally, but they couldn’t do it. That tells me more than anything that Riley will be here on his own terms for a while. But it doesn’t save the coordinators.

    Riley had to be bothered by the announcers calling him out, even conditionally. Because Meyer was on the crew, people listened. And people tend to not hear the qualifying statements. That’s why non-apologies like, “I’m sorry if someone was offended by my statement,” pass for the real thing when the stupids of this world hear it. Riley either intentionally or indirectly scuttled this game. And Meyer knew it. But the respect Riley has within the football community prevented even him making that cynical a call.

    And that’s why I think this team will eventually respond with some wins. I agree that Riley’s coaching dynamic will rarely, if ever, gain us “the next level.” It can only do so with an immense amount of talent (coupled with experience) on the field, which may happen in a few years. But none of this saves Riley from the here and now. Saturday’s spectacle was completely his call, and the sooner Beav fans accept this, the sooner we can move on.

  • antone1 says:
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    Just joined the group today . Went to both the Wisconsin game ( son lives in Milwaukee) and the UCLA game . . .I’m so discouraged at this point probably best not to say too much. I sat in the luxury box at the Wisconsin game and people were laughing. L A U G H I N G !!!!

    We left at start of Q4, couldn’t take it any more .

    I’m just not a fan of RIley so I’ll leave it at that . . seems nice enough guy but coaching is something where u need to smell the blood and get the team to do it too . . . .not go out and say : “wow lovely day for a game, lets go boys. Golly jee, we should play better as we grow “

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