25.Apr.2012 Special Teams — “Wasted” Scholarships?

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The Beavers haven't had a good punter since Kyle Loomis. The Alexis Serna and Johnny Hekker experiments costs the Beavs field position, which cost the team games. Some will argue that it's pointless to waste a scholarship on a punter. I guess I am old school in believing special teams (notably field position) is one third of the game, and a great punter is an invaluable weapon. "Waste" the scholarship, please, and sign one less Pankey or Krebs. Good deal, yes?

This story goes back to March 7, 2010, when Mike Riley made the decision that Johnny Hekker was a better punter than future Ray Guy Award, Ryan Allen. Wouldn't it be nice to have him returning this fall? Twas not to be. Now we have Tim McMullen. He sounds decent. A step down from Allen, but a step up from Hekker, but that's from reading biased media reports, so really who knows at this point.

Another huge loss is long snapper Marcus Perry. The guy never made one bad snap in four years. Michael Morovick, a walk-on, talks over. Keep in mind Perry was a scholarship player. It'll be interesting to see the difference between a scholarship long snapper and a walk-on.

So, my question to you: are a punter and long snapper truly "wasted" scholarships as the apologists say, or are these positions just as valuable (if not more so) than the 5th string LB who uses up these potential scholarships, yet never plays a down? And yes, Hekker was on scholarship eventually, but as I noted in that March 7th, 2010 article, Riley blatantly awarded the wrong guy. So maybe I should rephrase: is awarding a good punter or long snapper a wasted scholarship?

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  • NCAA_viOlation says:
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    This years’ long snaps will be like last years’ Hecker punts. Both will be off target 50% of the time and result in bad field position

  • numbers says:
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    Depends. A punter in a chip Kelly offense would be a wasted scholarship. A punter, a good punter, is very valuable in a Mike Riley/Langsdorf offense. An offense with all walkon kinsmen would need a good punter.

    I thought it interesting when I heard John Madden say that a coaches son is often a long snapper. Saying that there can always be a pro career for a long snapper, reguardless of athletic gift, that dedicated practice can make almost anyone qualified at long snapper.

    I think this year we will miss Marcus Perry at critical moments. But also we will gain by not having hecker creating critical moments with mind boggling shanks. That kid had talent but was a seriously extreme headcase.

    • angry says:
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      Hekker was laughing after his recording setting punt versus Wisconsin. I think that says it all…

      • Jack says:
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        To be fair, I think that was just a normal reaction to embarrassment. He’s not a coach. he’s a player. And when he flubs, he’s just plain embarassed.

        If Read or Riley were giggling afterward, then we have something to talk about.

        Still, we should have had another punter… not that we knew so beforehand.

        • numbers says:
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          We all saw the year prior, in the wind bowl vs byu, that this kid was a mental midget.

          • Jack says:
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            Tongue in cheek.

          • mckalk says:
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            Oh man, don’t get me started on that. Somehow the punter from BYU with probably less physical talent was able to figure out the wind and keept he ball low yet Hekker couldn’t or wouldn’t do that. Surely the Beav coaches discussed the conditions before the game, right? I would have benched Hekker’s ass then and there if he ignored instruction. That game, to me was the beginning of the trend we now have.

  • BeavMonkey says:
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    Some possible ways to do the calculation:

    Good punter: 42.5 yards/punt avg.

    Walk-on punter: 37.5 yards/punt avg.

    I don’t really know the numbers, but the difference being about 5 should stay somewhat constant.

    Oregon State I think had 50 punts last year.

    The value of a good punter vs. a Walk-on is 250 yards at no cost in downs.

    This does not mean that a RB who gets 300 yards is more useful than said punter.

    This means that RB who gets 250 MORE yards on the same number of carries is equally as useful. This is the difference between THE RESULTS OFJacquizz Rodgers and Chris Polk in 2010(Polk had a better O-line)

    a Long Snapper might be graded on how many plays don’t go according to plan. AdvancedNflStats has the scoop on how many yards a missed FG is, but its a variable amount based on the distance of the kick, and each punt that doesn’t go well due to a bad snap might be counted against how it potentially should have gone(punter’s average during good snaps).

    My guess is that this value is significantly lesser than that of a good Punter, although it is a bigger difference at one time(50 yards twice a season + 5 yards 5 times a season vs. 5 yards 50 times a season)

    Those fifth string recruits are mathematically much more complex to analyze, especially if they are boom or bust prospects. That said, the value of a bust-only prospect like Pankey is zero.

    The value of good cornerbacks is actually very high in the Pac-12, Linebackers I am not sure. A Linebacker prospect might be worth up to 400 yards a season if he turns out to be amazing, or turn out to be worth zero if he doesn’t play. Feel free to do a statistical calculation of that if you must, but it isn’t likely to yield practical results. That said, good punters are worth 250 yards, good FG kickers are worth slightly less, and good Long Snappers are worth lesser still.

    I would be aghast if somebody would seriously say that a punter or a FG kicker, or even a good Kick returner is a wasted scholarship, but neither of those scholarships is as valuable as a good Quarterback or Running back. You might argue, however, that it is more useful than a decent player in the rotation at any other position.

    • Jack says:
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      Good points all. But when weighted against game value, do the reserve LB’s or QB’s who never play worth the same?

      I understand the walk-on to ship player status ST players get. But I think big time coaches pay attention to detail and provide ships to the cream of those who are your ST base. I would go further and ask that a dedicated ship goes to a return specialist. Those details can kill the opponent’s psyche and win a game.

      Disclaimer: I had Ray Guy pajamas as a kid. Dude was a weapon.

      • Jack says:
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        Beamer ball!

        It has worked.

      • BeavMonkey says:
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        I too, stated that a Kick returner, a punter, and a FG kicker ARE worth scholarships. In fact, doing the math, a good punter is more valuable to the team than a barely-there RB like Malcolm Agnew. The punter is worth 250 FREE yards.

        However, I did temper that by saying that a ST Specialist is not as important to the team as someone like Brandin Cooks was last year, and considering that Cooks will get even better this year, that sort of comparison isn’t even really close.

        A good comparison of value to a punter: Cody Vaz is about as valuable to the team as a punter. In case that Mannion goes down at some point in the season to come, or after that(25%), Cody Vaz should be about 1000 yards/season better than the next guy. 1000 yards/season is 87.5 yards a game. So compared to third string, Vaz is 87.5 yards per game better. If there is a 20% chance Vaz will go down and Mannion can’t come back, the third stringer would have to be five times that good(437.5 yards/game) to be more valuable than a punter. This isn’t possible because our first string guy doesn’t pass for that much.

        All of this is based on the principle of marginal utility.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_utility

        So yeah, I probably Overvalue ST players according to nearly everyone that knows football.

        But then again, the statistics show how valuable they actually are. Or at least they show how painful having bad ones is.

        • Jack says:
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          You overstate the value of marginal utility. But you’re in my realm talking big K econ. I think you’re very close to the right answer.

  • Bill says:
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    Obviously when you have a good specialists, it’s never a wasted scholarship. Curious why the coaching staff felt it was necessary to give out another scholarship to a kicker. Unless that guy can punt too, it’s hard to justify two Ks on scholarship.

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      Maybe it has something to do with Lettuce not performing as expected? Dunno, I still have high hopes for him but like to see competition for the position.

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    My football coaching idol, Marv Levy stressed the same 33% importance on special teams. His Buffalo teams were always outstanding on ST and it contributed mightily to their success.
    But they also got killed in two superbowl battles against the Cowboys, whose coach Jimmy Johnson placed minimal importance upon ST.
    I do not think schollies on any starting position are wasted.

    • Jack says:
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      Note also that Levy stressed the no-huddle offense. I’ve talked here before about how much I admire Kelly’s speed system at Nikegon. Usually I’ve noted how the refs are impotent in its face since they don’t call obvious infractions like WR’s never coming inside the numbers. But it’s still brilliant.

      Levy and Sam Wyche didn’t do so poorly in the speed game. And now we’re hearing that Denver will do the same with Manning at QB. I really think this is the new revolution (even if it’s old) in football. I think Chip Kelly would be successful as a NFL head coach instituting the speed game with a “three yards and a cloud of dust” scheme. He’s always said he’s not married to a scheme. But he is married to forcing mistakes from the opposition with his pace.

  • bone says:
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    Hekker was just way too inconsistent. He was either great or just terrible, we all remember the Wisconsin kick, but 2008 USC game he played a major role in that victory. But at the special teams positions you want consistency which is why Perry will be missed so much. I like what Jack said about “Beamer Ball” they have won many games with it, lets bring that to the west coast!

  • BeavMonkey says:
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    Why is everyone saying 33%? I am not sure where this 33% is coming from, because ST is only on the field for 20% of plays.

    Also, they score 34% of the points, but drops to about 25% if PAT’s are not included. This makes sense, offenses score 62% in touchdowns, and PAT’s are(ideally) 1/7th of that.

    One place you could argue that they are 33% useful is that they do most of the field position changes for teams with good defenses. That said, the marginal value of specific ST players makes the ds/dp(change is yards per change in play) in this much lower than say, a specific skill position on Offense(RB, QB, WR).

    I understand that a good Punter/FG Kicker/PR/KR might be more valuable than say, Malcolm Agnew, but to say that they are as useful as Quizz, Mannion, or Paea, is on the whole, inaccurate.

    • numbers says:
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      That’s an old mantra of coaching. The game is one third offense, one third defense, one third special teams. And the team that wins at least 2 of these areas, usually wins the game.

  • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    Just as the old axiom in baseball.. ‘the ball will find you.” With poor teams like the current Beavs any weakness gets exposed and amplified. When the margin of error is almost zero, the importance of every; bad snap, shanked punt and missed 30 yard field goal is magnified. So while it may be true that special teams are only on the field X% of the time, their importance is exponential. JB

    • angry says:
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      Defensive statistics and points allowed are highly correlated with opponents’ starting field position. Punting should be listed under defense if you think about it…

      • BeavMonkey says:
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        Then shouldn’t runs or passes that don’t lead to first downs also be listed under defense?

        moving the ball down the field=offense. Stopping the ball coming back up the field=defense.

        It may help the defense, but in the game of football, it is an offensive play.

        • Jack says:
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          “Then shouldn’t runs or passes that don’t lead to first downs also be listed under defense?”

          You mean like 4th and 16?

          Ugh!

  • Beavergopher says:
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    Perry will be missed. Like Quizz not fumbling, he will not be appreciated until the first snap that goes awry.

    • mckalk says:
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      I just think if you touch a football five or ten times in a game and our responsible for where it’s going, you’re pretty damn important and if you can do it well and consistently, you’re probably worth a scholarship.

  • GOBEAVS says:
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    I agree with the points made here angry but must point out that Troy Whalen was on scholarship and was supposed to be the long snapper until he quit the team. So to be fair, Riley did use a scholarship on a LS, he just quit.

  • brownale9000 says:
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    Ah, this old chestnut…

    One scholarship punter? Not a waste.

    Two scholarship punters? A waste.

    Ryan Allen transferred so he could get a scholarship. He played very well last season. The year before, not so much as Hekker actually outkicked him by a yard per punt, which is the only season that Mike Riley actually had a choice to make. Considering the holes we’ve had on both sides of the ball the last two seasons, carrying two scholarship punters in 2010 and 2011 would have been insanity.

    And you’re wrong that Hekker was put on scholarship AFTER that Hekker/Allen decision was made. He was only NOT on scholarship for his freshman season. The year after Hekker was a ray Guy semi-finalist. And he was given that scholarship JUST after he was named the Sun Bowl MVP.

    http://cliffkirkpatrick.mvourtown.com/tag/johnny-hekker/page/2/

    • Jack says:
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      Seriously? You’re going to take one yard per punt even though you know it really wasn’t one yard per punt?

      I’m not even going to argue against stupid. Make it one-sided. You’re on your own.

      • brownale9000 says:
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        My bad. In 2010…

        Hekker: 61 punts for 2545 yards = 41.72 average
        vs
        Allen: 60 punts for 2447 yards = 40.78 average

        Yeah…you’re right to call me stupid for being off by 2.16 inches per punt.

        • BeavMonkey says:
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          Difference is, Ryan Allen rarely had punts that went fewer than 25 yards. Johnny has plenty.

          The effect of this is massive, because kicking 4 40 yard punts is not the same as kicking 2 80 yard punts and 2 0 yard punts. Expected value of a posession at position on the field doesn’t go linearly. An opponent who gets the ball at midfield 4 times should score less points than an opponent who gets it at their own 10 twice and at your 10 twice.

          I used hyperbole to illustrate that, but the math works just like it. Also, I am not a computer scientist, so I cannot make a vector field diagram.

        • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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          Don’t take JackAttacks personally. Most of us have learned to disregard them… even JasontheBeaver. JB

        • Jack says:
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          You’re not stupid. But your premise is. When you average 10 yard punts with 65 yard punts that out-kick the coverage, sure, you’re going to get a good gross total. But what was the reality of both kickers’ skills?

          • Jack says:
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            On a side note, I think Read’s coverage teams have been pretty damn good over the years. That should also be considered when we talk about the net yardage comparisons.

            • Beavergopher says:
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              Not having Hardin last year hurt special teams. He may have had issues at corner, but the guy was a stud as a gunner on special teams.

              • Jack says:
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                Agreed. I look at him like a Bill Bates type on the next level.

                • Jack says:
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                  And I think that speaks to the heart of the question on this post.

                  If we look at the NFL as a free market for football talent, then we have to account for how they spend their money.

                  There is value in someone like Hardin being paid on that level to be nothing more than a gunner. And that’s on a roster 38% smaller. If their value is that high on the top level, then why wouldn’t it be so here?

                  • angry says:
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                    Exactly. Personally, I think roster nuances like that make the difference between good and great teams. It’s easier to overachieve if there isn’t any wasted resources (i.e. money/scholarships) and each guy contributes (ideally excels) at his role. We’re basically talking about “value”…imo a 5th string LB offers none and those resources would be better spent on a specialist who excels at something on the field.

            • angry says:
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              Coverage and kick returns have been great. Punt returns were great, but just through observation, it seemed they dropped off last year.

              • Beavergopher says:
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                Hoping the Packers pick Hardin as a developmental safety prospect and special teams wiz.

                • Ackrite says:
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                  On of ESPN Million Mock drafts has Hardin as a 4th round pick to the Bears as a Safety

  • Beavergopher says:
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    Anyone else feeling better about the D this year with Perry and Bray coaching their respective positions? Too bad we have no DT’s.

    • Bill says:
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      That was the feeling when they were hired, it’s the recruiting aspect for Perry that will be the key. He won’t look good if he can’t get good players to come.

      It’s too bad Bray can’t be hired on full time. I think he’d easily fill Perry’s shortcomings in recruiting.

    • HopefulBeav says:
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      I am. It may be stupid spring time optimism but I can’t help feeling like Bray preaching speed and aggression while Perry continues to offer his NFL experience to the DB’s should offer some nice results. Hopefully our coaching staff is coming up with some effective schemes to neutralize the lack of DT size.

      • ObjCritic says:
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        Noticing that potential synergy benefits of improved LB and DB play is a good observation; I just continue to think that if the DT’s can’t take care of the middle, the synergy gets wasted. Safeties start providing run support to tackle guys several yards beyond the line of scrimmage, and then the play action works.

        Occasionally, the pure ability and speed of Chricton/Wynn will make for some nice defensive plays, but at the end of the day, and the season, that weak middle is going to end up costing the beavs.

  • rsteve503 says:
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    Man, the team must really be shaping up well this spring, for this blog to worry about a punter. LOL Yes, those occasional Hekker Horror shanks will be missed. There you are, deep in your own territory, and you punter shanks one for …..yes! .. negative yards..

    • presleydog says:
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      agreed. There are about 10 other positions that are troubling prior to getting to punter. I would happily watch hekker shank punts for another season if we could stop the run.

  • slamadam says:
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    i don’t have a huge issue for a walk-on punter to start say one season, espescially if he’s been on the squad as a backup for a couple season behind a scholarship guy. it’s quite another thing however to award the starting job to a walk-on as a true freshman. anybody starting as a freshman should be of scholarship quality. and yes, marcus perry will be missed. i just hope his departure doesn’t cost the team any games. (i don’t think it will, but it could).

    • oneoldbeav says:
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      slamadam, I gotta disagree here. I do think Perry’s departure is very likely to cost the Beavs a game this year.

      There is simply too little margin for error with this squad. Its not as if there will be several games where the Beavs are so far ahead that a blown snap is inconsequential; and I actually don’t think they’ll be so far behind very often either.

      According to Cliff, “Morovick will be a sophomore. He has been groomed for this role for two years” and “For LS depth, sophomore Jacob White from West Albany High has been added to the roster” So, if I understand this correctly, neither of these two have snapped in a game situation (at any level) for a couple years. Hope whichever one of these guys gets the job that he has nerves of steel and a few low pressure opportunities early in the season. Oh yeah, and the work ethic to perfect his craft over the summer.

  • numbers says:
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    Angry, are you going to be making the 98mile drive from Santa Barbara to dedeaux field at USC this weekend? Tickets are $7.00, open seating. See you there?

    • angry says:
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      I wasn’t planning on it, but that sounds good actually.
      Are you from LA?

      • numbers says:
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        I’m just down here this weekend for work. About to head to the opener now. It would be very interesting to hear your thoughts now vs the season opener.

  • Bill says:
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    A couple tidbits from an official osu video. they are practicing a lot of rugby punts.

    Looks like the punt team is going with a change in formation. To the formation with the three protectors back vs the NFL formation.

    • beavergopher says:
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      No more Sideshow Bob look alike as our punter. Sure, the dude has got the Clay Mathews hair, but can he punt the ball backwards? Shankopopolous had some unique skills and like a dog sensing fear, always had the gift of hitting a ten yarder at the worst possible moment.

    • Mud&Sticks says:
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      According to the roster the long snapper, Morovik, weighs 223 which is more than he looked to me. My first guess was ~185.

      Anyway a center who weighs only 223 could be a weak spot w.r.t. getting kicks blocked.

  • beavergopher says:
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    Nick Saban is smart. Don’t recall seeing other coaches that I recognized at the draft, but every 1st rounder from Alabama is seen hugging their former coach. It says, come to my school and I will make you a first round draft pick. Will the Beavs ever have a first rounder?

  • Bill says:
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    If Wheaton gets about 1200 yds plus 10+ TDs, he get some consideration. He’a legit 4.4 guy. Very polished route runner and good hands.

    • alex says:
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      Wheaton will get drafted but I can’t see him as a 1st rounder…

      I think Crighton and Mannion have potential. Wynn could be a 1st rounder, but the NFL will want him at LB, so the position change will drop his stock somewhat.

      • beavergopher says:
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        I highjacked my own thread with my last comment. Point was that Saban is using the draft as a recruiting tool.

      • ObjCritic says:
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        I think Chricton and Wynn will be beasts by the time they leave OSU, and will be definite draft picks. I think Mannion will end up being drafted too.

    • Jack says:
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      On the defense, Crichton, Wynn, Welch and TZ all look like they have that potential.

      On the offense, Mannion and maybe some of the WR’s right now. I think maybe Gilmore has a better look down the road, and many of the incoming O-linemen as well.

  • angry says:
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    Hardin goes in the 3rd round to Chicago

    • BeavMonkey says:
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      The hell? I just looked him up. He put up 24 reps on the bench press.

      So did Trent Richardson. Why weren’t we playing Hardin at Safety or even LB?

      seriously, its like finding out that your Punter can actually catch anything and run a 4.35 40. IF he had been groomed for Safety or LB, who knows how high he would have gone.

  • BeavMonkey says:
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    Lets not kid ourselves, Wynn, Welch, and Zimmerman have no shot at the first round. Neither do any of the WR’s.

    I think the shot at the first round goes like this.

    Mannion>Poyer>Crichton

    • alex says:
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      Poyer definitely doesn’t have 1st round speed- that’s why he’s still a beaver. Great player but will be limited by his measurables.

    • Jack says:
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      Wynn has the motor and the strength. Welch and TZ have the size, speed and instincts.

      It’s all a “what can be” story from here on out.

  • matt b says:
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    The NFL does not draft statues in the first round that throw lots of picks. Good kid, works hard, may improve enough to be drafted. Poyer a solid choice no matter the round, possible 1st or 2nd round. Crichton must grow,and will improve run stopping ability on his way to being drafted. At the end of four years, you guys will be surprised at who are the most improved and draftable Beaver players. I’m not saying I know either. But I did know that Hardin was/is a good player that got a bad rap from Beaver fans.

    • Jack says:
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      I think that bad rap was always tempered by our knowledge that he was always playing out of position. You’ll never find anyone who speaks poorly of his ST play. But you’ll find a lot of posts critical of the coaches who put BH at the CB position.

      • angry says:
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        exactly.

      • WFO says:
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        Yep. Never belonged at CB,but because he was fast he ended up playing the wrong position for 3(would have been 4) years. He could have been a monster at safety or LB,but once again poor recruiting comes back to bite the beavers.

        The more I stew on it,the more I feel Riley really fucked Hardin. That dude is big,strong and fast. If he had been utilized properly who knows what he could have accomplished. He was definitely a torpedo on special teams and never hesitated to drop the hammer. Here’s hoping he has a successful NFL career playing the proper position for his size/skillset.

        • Jack says:
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          On the flip side, he could have been exposed as a poser at S and been bounced out of the draft. Now the Bears get a S who has coverage skills but needs to be taught by pro coaches the finer points of playing his position.

  • Jack says:
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    So I’ve barely kept an eye on the draft. I’ve checked in every now and then, and I just don’t get some teams.

    Did Al Davis possess the front office across the Bay? Those picks sure do look like picks he would make.

    Can someone please inform the Rams that the NFL is not a 7-on-7 league?

    Oh… and if I read another snide comment about Carroll and Schneider knowing more about football than me or any other fan out there, I’m going to give up on the Seahawks. Of course they know more than we do. That’s what makes their last two days (getting paid to know more than we do) so egregious.

  • boycat says:
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    “The Beavers haven’t had a good punter since Kyle Loomis.”

    Who quit the team after his freshman year for “personal reasons.” I never got the backstory on that. Anybody know what that was all about?

  • oneoldbeav says:
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    Got a kick out of BeavMonkey’s analogy above, “its like finding out that your Punter can actually catch anything and run a 4.35 40.”

    Or, its like knowing your punter is a more than decent passer and not using him to throw, even in a few situations where it makes little sense, enough to keep the return team guessing. Hekker may have left a much better legacy if his ability had been properly utilized………oh, guess thats not so unusual for a MR coached team.

  • Fightingbeaver says:
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    First, many OSU players either left the team during or at end of football seasons. Many of them did not like the whimpy way Mike Riley was coaching. Smart players are looking for a coach whom can lead the team, not only to a winning season, but to a BCS bowl. Riley is not that coach.

    A college football coach is responsible for how the team as a whole performs. This includes players condition, ability to focus and execute either offensive or defensive play calling and there attitude about playing the game. A good college football coach teaches their players how to be smart, not stupid. Their playbook and game plans are designed to win…….not loose. Bottom line, a coach is responsible for his subordinate coaching staff and players performance in each and every game.

    I remember during the past seasons and especially when Dennis E. was coaching OSU stateed when asked by media ” what happened, why did you lose the game”, Dennis E. like other great coaches would state that “I was out coached”. They took the blame on their shoulders. Mike Riley always uses the terms “they or we”, meaning the team or the team and I lost the games.

    When asked at beginning of each football season my media directed to Mike Riley, “how do you thing your team will do this season”………Riley has answered with these statements:

    I’ll be happy if we fall in the middle of the Pac
    I’ll be happy if we get into post season play….

    Doesn’t say much about the team or players does it.

    A confident and real leader coach states: ” After winning Pac championship then we want the best BCS bowl we can get.

    Statements like this gives the team and individual players confidence and shows their coach believes in them.

    Mile Riley does not obtain what is needed to be a real leader, a winning coach. Riley will not change this season or in the future.

    No spring game? Another thing Riley has taken away from Beaver fans.

    • bendbeaver says:
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      I’m curious how you know that the reason ‘many’ players left is because Riley is ‘wimpy’?

      I’m sure that when the teams winning, you’ll come back here and eat crow.

      • Fightingbeaver says:
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        bendbeaver, my source for the statement relating to players leaving due to coach Riley being a wimp is a room mate to one of the players girlfriends and backed up by the players’ parents. Is that good enough for you. It was for me.

        As far as eating crow, I have not had to eat crow for 8 years now. I doubt if I have to eat crow after this season either. Don’t you even watch the games, what Riley does not do and how he reacts when the team is down and out depressed about losing games? Maybe you might take the time to watch the coach closer. Remember how he was laughing on the sidelines when we were losing to Utah last year. It must have been a happy day for him.

        Call me what you may. My SUV is painted black and orange, my kids have more beaver gear than regular cloths and I am a dedicated beaver fan. I have experienced what it is like to win, not lose, to go to the Fiesta Bowl under Erickson and the electricity among the team and fans. So I want the team to win again, and know for a fact it will not happen under the throne of Mike Riley and Bob De Care Less.

        • Jack says:
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          Seriously? You’re going to play the “my hairdresser’s cousin’s first boyfriend’s nephew’s best friend’s girlfriend’s bff says”?

          I was loathe to read your second post after the “whom” and “loose” prevented me from comprehending your first post.

          Now I know why I shouldn’t bother. There’s an art to going all Jabberwocky now and then. But you have to do it without a conscience.

          Name-calling comes from a rooted conscience of weakness and insecurity.

        • bendbeaver says:
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          This part is pretty funny: “room mate to one of the players girlfriends and backed up by the players’ parents”, and is always the joke in internet forums when someone says that they heard something is/did happen(ing) because they want to believe they have the inside scoop. Hey, but if that’s enough for you, then okay. Players join teams and leave teams for as many reasons as there are players, but it’s easier to grasp and make sense of something complex if you just go with ‘it’s Riley’s fault’. I’m not saying the guys above criticism, but it should be smart criticism.

          Here’s a trivia question that deals with your statement about what great coaches say after a loss: which coach said the following after a significant stinging loss: “I’m just really proud of my players, I love these guys. They’ve competed. They’ve done everything we’ve ever asked them to do. It is a special group of young men.”

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            You guys are way too tough on Fightingbeaver, whom I have always suspected is actually a Native American female, but notwithstanding he/she once informed us of his/her recent carotid artery surgery to correct blood flow to the brain.

            It’s fairly obvious to me that in the midst of composing posts he/she drifts in and out of consciousness. We need to be more sympathetic to someone dealing with a serious medical issue. JB

            • ncaa_viOlation says:
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              dang JB, you’re about 6 months behind. What are you doing posting on April 2012 comments?

  • ean says:
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    I find it kind of interesting that “the worst punter ever” is getting looked at by NFL teams.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Here’s a helpful report on the spring “scrimmage” with some nice photos:

    http://www.buildingthedam.com/2012/4/28/2985817/defense-ahead-of-offense-at-oregon-st-spring-scrimmage

    Troubling aspect: the author predicts Rueben Robinson will be used in ‘coverage and in space,”…

  • oneoldbeav says:
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    http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2012/04/live_chat_spring_review_and_fa.html
    Live chat with Lindsay, some pretty predictable answers but a couple of interest.

    She is convinced that MR will be calling the plays but feels there may be little change since, in her estimation, he pretty much filtered everything Langs called. This is the first I heard anyone come out and say that Mike would call the plays and, if he does, I think we will see more of a change than she expects.

    Her last two answers paint a pretty uninspiring picture of the attitudes of athletes at OS(U) and of Mike Riley. Sometimes an answer tells more about the one giving it than about the topic being discussed; not sure how much stock to put in her opinions. However they are certainly not without some merit. After all that I must say, God Bless Silverstream!

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