29.Dec.2012 Mike Riley Loses the Alamo Bowl

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Rating: 5.0/5 (4 votes cast)

Some obvious gaffs that come to mind:

  • Leaving Vaz in too long.
  • Timeout debacle #173
  • Allowing the QB to get sacked 9 times without using a TE or RB to pass block
  • Having Reuben Robinson in pass coverage late in the game
  • Having Sean Martin in pass coverage late in the game
  • Letting up (this is a pattern) once he has a double digit lead in the 4th. I'd like a stat on how many 2nd half leads Riley has blown. I'd bet it's well above average.
  • Texas QB begins to run, Banker & Riley begin to cry
  • Another choke in a big game

etc. There are probably many more, have at it.

I tried not to comment during this game. But, I wrote 4. They were, in order:

4:09 Beavs look to be winning both lines and playing with fire.

4:19 Get Vaz out of there.
Man it sucks not having a QB

4:40 Even though Vaz was decent on that last drive, I’d give Mannion a shot. Gotta open up the passing game at some point to keep the run game going. Vaz’s turnovers have held back the play calling.

4:51 A lot of bad coaching. Jeez.

Bendbeaver then shows up and says he doesn't see bad coaching. I didn't feel like ripping him a new one, so I stopped posting and just watched the nightmare that is Mike Riley unfold. I'd say OSU won 9 games in spite of that man, and that's a great job by the players.

By the way, regarding the calls for Mannion…the guy is a turnover machine, let's not act like we have Steve Young riding the pine. Yes, he should have been in the game after the Vaz fumble, but he's not a savior. If neither guy improves this off-season, OSU doesn't have a viable QB.

I don't care what number you want to place on the win cap theory, this was it in action.

Positives: Reuben Robinson's last game

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  • Gdub says:
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    also Colon Kelly’s last game.

  • steveEbeaver says:
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    You got one thing wrong Angry, it was 10 sacks.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Need an O coordinator, hire Bray, work like hell to hold recruits.

    • Beaverbill says:
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      I think the thing I am most frustrated about is the recruits this will cost us! I so hate how OSU leadership continually lets Beaver Nation down.

  • beav4ever says:
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    I feel bad for the players, they played well enough to win handily except Vaz and Kelly. Riley should watch replay and step down as coach. The commentators were laughing at him. This loss is not acceptable, our players deserved better.

  • Gdub says:
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    Vaz just got sacked again

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Okafor just brought down Vaz between the locker room and bus.

      • Dwill03 says:
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        Vaz would make an excellent stunt man. Tons of (angry) moxie, and his stop, drop and roll is second to none.

  • angry says:
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    The spin doctors like osubeavers.com and Mama Machado will be on the case, telling us to be happy about 9 wins and the great effort. *yawn*

  • Dwill03 says:
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    Should had been a 20 point win. Ended up a 4 point loss. Brutal ending to an otherwise good season. Thanks to Wheaton and poyer for there play as beavers. Solid represantitives of the school. Those 2 deserved a bowl win. It’d feel like less of a kick in the nuts if we lost to a superior team. Guess this leaves room for improvement next year. Fuck

  • Gdub says:
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    I’m with you. It’s called the life and times of being a beaver fan. It’s always, well there is next year. Problem is next year is the same as the previous. Something needs to change. I’d get on board with Riley being gone but I just don’t see us being relevant enough to get someone better. So sadly we are stuck with a coaching staff that gives away a few games each year. This team had the talent to be 11-1 and in a BCS bowl game. Instead are 9-4 for the reasons stated.

  • Beaver Byte says:
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    Most expected Hunt to choose Oregon State tomorrow. My guess is Riley cost us a great 4 star by blowing this game in horrible fashion and appearing to be so clueless and boneheadly stubborn in not giving Mannion a shot. Mannion really did look good for the very short time he was in there and they both played well being rotated every couple series or so in our last game. To not give him a chance was beyond inexcuseable. I hate saying it but I bet Hunt now switches to Nebraska. Riley blew it.

    • angry says:
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      If I were him I’d switch to Nebraska.
      They don’t fuck around there.

      • Gdub says:
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        nope. they just throw in the towel early instead of toying with your emotions for 3 quarters. BTW, Wisconsin just scored again

        • angry says:
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          But I mean the fan base and overall program expectations. It’s much more intense than OSU.

          • bone says:
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            I wonder how many “angrycornhusker” type sites they have.

          • Gdub says:
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            I was just giving you shit and ripping on them and our team at the same. BTW, while I was typing, Vaz just got sacked again and Wisconsin and Baylor just scored again

    • bone says:
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      All Mannion did was hand the ball off. But still think we should have went to him, no passing game at all.

  • GoBeavs90 says:
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    How quickly until we here how lucky we are to have a coach like Mike Riley? I know it’s coming

    • Jack says:
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      Lucky?

      We couldn’t get a better coach if we had a gazillion bucks and Edith Head making our unis… as opposed to her zombie being forced to make Junior’s unis down south.

      Isn’t that our reality?

      Don’t we just suck so much that we’re lucky to have a decent coach but nothing more?

  • Krogercomplete says:
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    Why are you quoting yourself in the post? Lol.

  • helicopterbeav says:
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    Just terrible. No excuse to lose that game. Oregon State was way better than Texas yet we blew it. Felt a lot like the Washington game. Oregon State can not win with the pressure on. The coaching staff is not ready for prime time!

    Terrible coaching. Time management debacle at the end of the 1st half. Cost us 3 points. Embarrassing.

    Turtle-ing up the whole second half. I am so sick of this. How about some killer instinct.

    If you are going to run the ball, run the ball in the second half!!!! Come on!

    Why leave Vaz in when it was obvious he was not ready to play. He threw nothing but screens, sacks, and turnovers all game.

    Why is Riley allowing his return men to take the ball out of the endzone on kick returns. They NEVER get to the 25. Or did Riley miss that rule change while vacationing in San Antonio every summer?

    Not that it mattered but, not using your final time out at the end of the second half either. Could have forced Texas to kick a field goal or punt. instead they just gave up.

    Riley lost the game for the Beavs. No doubt about it.

  • Nor Cal Beav says:
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    I feel like a 4 loss season is as good as it can get under Riley. Our losing either comes early with a strong finish or this year, historic 6-0 start followed by coasting the rest of the way. Next year theoretically should be better with so much returning talent but shit like today (and the Washington game) will happen then and the result will be at best the same as this year.

  • angry says:
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    Riley on the loss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG88P8pR9-c&feature=youtu.be

  • 10CentLine says:
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    Let me make this clear-cody ‘vag’ is not a D1 caliber QB. Mannion leads all of college football with 31INTs. over the past 2 years. Our bend but not break D broke and we got the loss. Going to be a very long off season, with vag and mannion battling it out……

    • Scotty says:
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      Vag? Really??? Yes he stank tonight, but c’mon, that’s just childish.

      Agree this loss is on Riley. One thing I see everywhere in discussing him, over and over, is “lack of killer instinct.” Just not there, and we’ll never be great until we get a coach that has that.

      Vaz/Mannion are not Canfield/Moevao, I’ll say that…

  • bone says:
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    Saw this on Facebook….Does a pretty good job detailing how I feel after this game.

    You Beaver fans out there saying you are ashamed of Beaver Nation and calling us bandwagon fans are the ones that keep getting fed shit and thinking its Oatmeal… Wake up! It’s not that I blame the whole loss on Vaz cause I don’t. I blame the play calling, terrible OL play and the fact that when a guy shows you he just don’t have it than dammit that is the time to go to the NEXT MAN UP… I am still proud of the Beavers season and what they accomplished overall considering where they were last year is amazing! That being said this was OUR game to lose and I personally think had they made the move to the other guy we had a better chance… You can’t fault me or others out there for being up set that we just handed out 10th win to a much inferior Texas team on a silver platter… Oh well on to the next one…

    • Scotty says:
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      Proud of the players? Yes. Even Vaz (as nutty as he drove me) as stood in there and took a massive pounding and didn’t quit.

      Proud of the coaches? Uhhhhhhhhh no, they were abysmal.

  • steveEbeaver says:
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    At halftime MR sat alone with his thoughts and it came to him how much the coaching fraternity loves him and he thought that since he has a lifetime contract there must be some way to save Mack Brown’s job. Mission accomplished.

    • Jack says:
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      Nice.

    • mckalk says:
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      I love a good conspiracy theory, but I heard that Riley was actually able to take his bike out for a quick 10 minute spin at halftime which helped clear his mind enough to come up with the “save Mack Brown protocol” which we saw expertly executed in the last 10 minutes of the game.

  • Kenny Beaver says:
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    I ‘d like to take this time to remind everyone that if they get their BASF donation in before Dec. 31 that it will count against this years taxes.

  • Beaver Byte says:
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    The national press has headlines calling it a “major coaching fail”:
    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/texas-wins-alamo-while-oregon-state-suffers-major-042208665–ncaaf.html

    • steveEbeaver says:
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      Last paragraph sums it up: This game isn’t necessarily being pinned on Vaz, it’s on Riley, who up until Saturday night had been lauded for the nation’s best turnaround. However, today’s coaching looked a lot like the Riley that went 3-9 a year ago.

      • Beaver Byte says:
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        The second sentence really stood out:

        “Riley, Oregon State’s head coach, refused – almost defiantly – to switch quarterbacks…”

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Nice….good to see others saying it.

  • WFO says:
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    And the decommits staaaaaaaart…….

    …..now.

  • bone says:
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    I think you have it wrong angry, it isn’t a win cap, it’s a loss floor.

    ?@BeaverBlitz
    4 loss curse? With the bowl loss, Riley has never had a season with less than 4 losses as a head coach in 19 seasons in the CFL, NFL or CFB.

    • Jack says:
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      Hmmm… someone has pointed this out many times without comment.

      At least I always reference Duck fan and their jealousy.

  • Gdub says:
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    let me add one thing to your initial premise. Riley and coaching staff also make no in game adjustments

    • WFO says:
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      Not really true. The run and screen game were killing texas in the first half.

      So Riley made the adjustment to the pass/sack/3andout attack in the 2nd. No reason to stick with what’s working and keeping your defense off the field.

    • Scotty says:
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      No in-game adjustments? Totally not true. I hear he switched from Doublemint to Juicy Fruit.

  • SalemBeav says:
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    As much as I hate the idea, go Seahawks

  • Perspective says:
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    Angry I give you lots of credit as many of the factors that cost the Beavers this game are things you have been pointing out all year.

    1. Poor clock management – There was no excuse for not calling the timeout at the end of the first half. I had a buddy explaining to me that we got screwed because there was a second left when we spiked the ball. My response is call the freaking timeout and you don’t put it in the refs hands. That is all on Riley.

    2. Two players you have been down on all season Martin and Robinson gave up scoring plays.

    3. Riley has mishandled the QB situation. He stuck with Vaz too long tonight. Playing the “hot hand” was not the case tonight as Vaz was horrible. Had to give Mannion a shot tonight.

    I have bitched about the site being negative in the past so it’s only fair that I admit when you’re right.

    • Scotty says:
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      What drives me crazy is that when Vaz went out with the ankle injury, that was the perfect opportunity to make the switch for good!

      But nooooo he puts the re-gimped QB back in ASAP! WTF?

      • angry says:
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        Yeah he was gifted an opportunity to switch without controversy.
        Riley has never been good at seizing moments.

        • mckalk says:
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          Or doing anything innovative. Why not just go jumbo package with two tight ends and run it down their throats?

          • WFO says:
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            Cuz who wants to win by 3 tds? That’s lame.

          • angry says:
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            People talking about vags and throats…you know it’s Saturday night.

            • mckalk says:
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              Everyone is too traumatized to talk about Vaz’ low hanging balls since they struck again today.

              • angry says:
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                We’re not talking about them because they no longer exist. Okafor ate them for dinner.

                (ps. All of this innuendo is making me as uncomfortable as you guys so I’m gonna stop now!).

    • ObjCritic says:
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      If Mannion had three TO’s, he’d probably have been pulled. If Agnew left the ball on the ground 1 or 2 times, he’s on the bench (where he’s primarily stayed). Why not switch up when Vaz had turnovers, looked unvcomfortable, and couldn’t complete the downfield throws Riley likes to compliment the run?

      Was this Riley’s ego on display tonight?

  • mb says:
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    To Krogerincomplete:
    Angry is, well angry. You, Kroger, try to deftlect the criticism by trying to shift the subject away from OS and back on to someone else. Very shallow. Then you congratulate yourself. But guys, so far you have missed something. The Beavers are poorly conditioned in comparison to the other teams and are very inflexible in real time game adjustments. They knew two weeks ago that they would not have their best backups available to play defensive line. So what was the plan two weeks ago knowing full well that at some point Texas would push the pace and the linemen would be gassed? Where was the adjustment or substitution for the right offensive tackle when it was clear that he was totally gassed before halftime? Were the Beavers not allowed to try Nielsen or Andrews? Does MR have to ask permission fro the refs to call a time out, to run a half roll, full roll out or even wildcat with no qb on the field? If the run game is working, get rid of the turn over machine and add a useful blocker. There were dozens of adjustments that could have been made, or would have been made by dirt under the finger nails, real leader. With a CEO in charge, there is no where for the buck to stop. That is the deal.

    • krogercomplete says:
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      Kroger”in”complete–I like it! Thanks for the shout out. I’ll concede that was purely a dig on Angry, who cracks me up (I can’t be the only one who sees what I was getting at). As for congratulating myself, not sure what you mean. I thought Angry’s response was funny, and was about what I expected. Not sure what kind of response you are looking for when someone says “get a life,” other than maybe, “my dad can beat up your dad.” As for “shallow,” fine I’ll take that.

      As for substance, I don’t disagree with many of the points. Vaz was a steaming pile of shit, and Riley should have pulled him (or not played him to begin with). For that, I blame Vaz and I blame Riley. I also thought Kelly was a steaming pile of shit, and I think it’s probably right to say he should have been given some help. For that, I blame Kelly and I blame Riley.

      As for the timeout at the end of first half, yeah they should have called a timeout. But in fairness, that was an epic fuck up by the officials, and I understand the confusion if Riley had actually been told it was a first down. And if they thought it was a first down, then saw the clock was running, and thought maybe it had just restarted early, I get why in the confusion you try to spike it. But regardless, call a timeout. Agreed. At the end of the day, that one didn’t end up mattering.

      Thought the defense looked great, but losing two guys off the D line rotation showed itself late in the game, and Texas having all the momentum, basically in front of a home crowd, did not help the downward spiral.

      Nothing easy to swallow about that game.

  • Timber2002 says:
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    How do we not win that game by 20+?

  • gobeavers92 says:
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    Angry you are spot on with your original post but I want to emphasize #3 on your list (not leaving in a TE/RB to pass block). I was YELLING at the TV and after each sack we kept running the same protection on pass plays. I am still pulling my hair out. FLAT OUT UNACCEPTABLE.

    • WFO says:
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      God no shit.

      If you feel like passing is the only answer,then max protect and let the receivers get open. Letting the DE make your QB his prison bitch doesn’t seem like a great game plan.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Riley’s excuse was they played max protect and Texas countered with double coverage that resulted in an INT. So he was attempting to avoid INTs by taking 10 sacks from a team that had 25 sacks ALL FUCKING YEAR.

      • Gdub says:
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        I call bullshit on that. That was the ball that was thrown poorly on the comeback route. There was no double coverage. Just a ball that was thrown too far to the inside. The only player that could have caught that was the db and he did. That pick was on Vaz. So as Cartman would say, Riley – You can suck my balls

      • mckalk says:
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        Then you line up two f-ing tight ends on Okafor’s side and run the ball 15 straight times if that’s what it takes. O-Lineman would rather run block anyway. It makes me wonder if the coaching staff were looking at Texas game film on a Betamax machine? They didn’t even attempt to counter the speed rush.

        I go back to Baylor against UCLA, Briles ran the ball 67 times because he knew UCLA could not hold them to less than 10 yards for every three plays on the ground and Baylor had more passing yards than the Beavers this year. Does Riley’s strategy ever change?

      • mckalk says:
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        I didn’t know max protection meant putting the RB on the opposite side of Okafor and having him immediately run out to the flat when Vaz catches the snap. I’ll make sure to try that when I play NCAA 2013.

  • Scotty says:
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    The gaffe list should really look like this:

    * Leaving Vaz in too long.
    * Leaving Vaz in too long.
    * Leaving Vaz in too long.
    * Leaving Vaz in too long.
    * Leaving Vaz in too long.

    Fix that and everything else is probably irrelevant since we likely win by two scores.

  • mckalk says:
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    I would maybe have a tiny smidgen of respect for Riley if he would at least tweet out “Shitty day to be a Beaver”. I cannot f-ing believe the six hours I invested today watching two debacles unfold. I hope BDC sleeps well tonight!

    • angry says:
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      6 hrs. Imagine you spent that learning how to tie knots–you’d be on your way to eagle scout by now.

      • Scotty says:
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        My stomach learned how to tie itself in knots – does that count?

      • mckalk says:
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        I never heard, could Riley have challenged that spot at the end of the first half or is that just in the pros?

        • Timber2002 says:
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          …not that Riley would ever actually challenge a call.

          • bendbeaver says:
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            I’m sure I wasn’t the only one who saw that there was one second left on the clock when Vaz spiked it.

            • Jack says:
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              Nope.

              Vaz spiked the ball on 4th and one like all of us watched him do it.

              • Gdub says:
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                that’s why you call timeout. there was confusion over whether or not it was a first down and the clock would stop. Why take the chance? Timeouts don’t carry over to the 2nd half. Call it and get the FG team on the field. There wasn’t enough time left to do anything else anyways

      • mckalk says:
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        I’d like to use knots for evil purposes……LOL

  • ObjCritic says:
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    So what is there to look forward to this off-season? Lack of clarity on an approach to choosing a starting QB? I suspect Woods will get stronger, but am unsure that Ward or Brown will get the job even if they play better. I like Woods – he just doesn’t seem like the guy to make plays on his own or to outrun people with a burst; he depends on everything going just right, which doesn’t happen with Riley coached teams.

    Therein lies one of the fundamental problems with Riley’s approach; his pro system requires dominating play on the line, and not many college teams do that consistently, certainly not OSU. When USC was rolling for example, that’s what they had. But you put a 6′ QB in the pocket and tell him to throw, you better be able to give him a pocket.

    Riley’s refusal to evolve, and adapt to what he has, is brought into specific relief against teams with same/better athletes. Texas never had to worry about an OSU qb taking off and running (they didn’t even have to worry about an extra player coming in to block). Riley took an approach that required superior athletes across the board that he did not have. And he kept running it anyway.

    This year’s 6-0 start was an anomaly; we won’t see it again for some time. Riley simply flipped it this year, starting fast, finishing weak. But now he’s secure again for at least three more seasons before any criticism is taken seriously. He was 8 points from being 11-1. He got to his highest bowl ever. But what it showed again was he can’t win with pressure; he couldn’t get the first 7-0 start in program history against UW, couldn’t beat Stanford with a rose bowl on the line, and choked against Texas in the biggest college bowl game of his career.

    We know what his top end is. We know no serious change is coming, but dammit BDC, tell him to hire a serious offensive coordinator that doesn’t merely acquiesce to him, but rather critically and meaningfully challenge him and adds to the staff and diversifies the offense. Give Bray a promotion and a raise and keep him. Give us some hope that there’s more than another Sun Bowl in the future of Beaver Fans – call it the “No El Paso” policy.

    • WFO says:
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      Time for Langsdorf to go and Bray to come on full time. Let anyone on the staff coach QBs,not like they can get any worse. I wouldn’t mind seeing Read go too.

      • oneoldbeav says:
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        I’m tuning out Beavs football for a while before the raving begins about what a great turnaround season just concluded. As for Langs being let go to make room for Bray, I nominate Locey to pick up the QB’s.

        Not much of a Basketball fan; see y’all when Pat Casey cranks it up.
        Yeah, Happy New Year…………..sheesh!

  • mckalk says:
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    When you could conceivably go 6-7, yet get another year added to your contract, I think there is a disconnect between the goals of Riley/BDC and the goals we would like to see stated.

    I’d like to see a contract restructuring talking out the silly “bowl game clause”, but BDC is never going to do something like that.

  • steveEbeaver says:
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    I’m just glad I’m not Beavergopher. What a miserable rodent weekend.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    He says “we didn’t” in the passive sense, not the active, responsible sense:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG88P8pR9-c&feature=youtu.be

    Like a little kid that says “it broke” instead of “I broke it.”

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Riley is the sheriff of Mayberry who doesn’t realize NCAA football isn’t Mayberry.

    OK, I’ll try to shut up until there’s some meaningful thread about recruiting results and off season issues.

    • osbeavs says:
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      I am finding it hard to ever care about recruiting results. Does any of it matter with Riley at the helm? Tonight was an absolute debacle and disgrace. I think Riley should be embarrassed by his performance tonight. I can’t believe he was even watching the same game as the rest of us. He reminds of Henry Winkler in The Waterboy.

  • bendbeaver says:
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    While I always appreciate a good shout out in an angry OP, it seems a bit disingenuous that you didn’t feel like “ripping me a new one” when I disagreed with you. At that point in the game, the mistakes weren’t coaching errors. Texas had one offensive play of any significance due to failed containment, and Vaz a two boneheaded decisions. Of course, as the game progressed, coaching errors were the reason the game was lost, so at that point, your post at 4:51 became true, but it wasn’t true at 4:51.

    Regardless, this game should keep the anger in angrybeavs until next September at a minimum, so for that, we should all be grateful.

    I can only think that Vaz was kept in the game because Mannion has fathered Riley’s second grandchild. This should help solve the QB question with Sean playing safety next Fall.

    • osbeavs says:
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      Or for another team. I wonder how long Mannion’s dad will put up with this nonsense. His dad does seem to be someone who would get close to a situation like this.

      • bendbeaver says:
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        Not sure what other team is going to put up with a boatload of interceptions.

        • mckalk says:
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          Yeah, I mean the stat that Mannion leads the FBS in interceptions over the last two seasons does speak volumes, but is some of it Riley’s system? Remember, Canfield was a master at checking down, sometimes to a fault, but he’s really been the only QB who has had an excellent interception ratio under Riley.

          • Scotty says:
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            Let’s not forget Mannion had to throw the ball about a hundred times a game because there was no run game last year…

      • mckalk says:
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        It seems like Sean should be the man in this system if he just stops throwing so many goddamn stupid interceptions. Maybe he needed two seasons before making the “Riley leap”.

        • bendbeaver says:
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          Too many “let’s hope something happens” passes, although I would have preferred those over “let’s stand here like a stump” non-passes.

          • mckalk says:
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            Bring Pettibone back as OC find a spread QB and put Woods, Ward and Brown in the backfield. Run the ball 60 times a game.

            Just kidding, it’s been a long day.

          • WFO says:
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            One thing i’ve always liked about Mannion is his ability to move in the pocket and keep his eyes downfield. Vaz has a tendency to do the opposite and backpedal into the oncoming rush.

            I really don’t know wtf they’re going to do about the qb next year.

        • ObjCritic says:
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          I really expected Mannion to make the leap this year and have a 2:1 TD:INT ratio. I know Canfield became efficient his last year, but the best job by a QB in Riley’s system might have been Moore in his senior year. He could make the plays that were there, some that weren’t, and move around while keeping his eyes downfield. Vaz and Mannion just seem to throw it where it is called, regardless of circumstance (e.g. coverage).

          It seems like a benefit to having Vaz roll out would be not only could he see the field better (and yeah, rolling out to one side might reduce the field for him), but then couldn’t he just throw it away if nothing is there, or if there is pressure, because he’d be outside the tackle box?

          The Scnhell/Goe video on OLive is interesting because they suggest Riley went away from the run too early and got greedy wanting to go downfield on patterns that never had the time to develop due to poor blocking.

          • alex says:
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            Has Vaz EVER thrown the ball away? All season?

            I want to say at least 3-4 of the sacks yesterday could have been avoided just by chucking it.

            • ObjCritic says:
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              You take someone as smart as Russel Wilson and watch him, he scrambles around to buy time, but it’s clear he understands that he can always throw it away if need be; he doesn’t forget that. Riley’s QBs seem to have a hard time learning that.

    • Jack says:
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      bb… while I appreciate a lot of what you say…

      Wtf man?

      Starting Vaz was the first mistake.

      And i won’t make anyone suffer any simple analogies or metaphors from here on out. Beavs sucked.

      That is all.

      • bendbeaver says:
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        I was responding to the specific timeline of angry’s posts. If someone had issue with Vaz starting, that’s fine, but angry didn’t and he was referencing coaching in the game up to that point. It seems like it would be easy for him to give several examples of bad coaching in the first hour of the game; instead it was more of a hit-and-run.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    MultipleTOs by QB, poor clock management, run game abandonment despite D not taking away run, margin of loss…did we re-watch OSU @ Wash?

    • alex says:
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      Not sure I agree with this…after the first half, Texas seemed far more successful at stopping the run. Or maybe this just coincided with the disappearance of our passing game…but in any case, rushing was not very successful in the 2nd half. Probably didn’t help that Woods was out.

    • mckalk says:
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      You’re right, it felt more like the UW game than Stanford. Regarding the run game, Riley immediately rationalized that Texas was stacking the box to start the second half, but why not go bigger and if Woods or Ward break through to the second level it could be a big gainer? Or do the Beavers not have a jumbo package?

      Adjustments anyone? Runs early in a second half when you have the lead are good because you piss away the clock and the other team is not paying that much attention to it as yet.

      Also, I hope all of Riley’s unused timeouts keep him warm at night. He’s collected enough of them over the years!

  • Curtis says:
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    Riley was atrocious. That’s beyond debate. One quibble, though, regarding the situation at the end of the second quarter. Ultimately, that one’s on Vaz. As quarterback, he’s the coach on the field and should know the clock as well as anyone. He needed to step up and take the initiative to make the right decision.

  • silverstream055 says:
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    In last night’s Alamo Bowl, on national TV in a big game, OSU suffered a meltdown in the fourth quarter. I believe this was due to a failure of leadership on the part of Riley, Langsdorf, Banker, and Vaz. If any one of those guys had stepped up, taken charge, and made good decisions, OSU would have won last night’s game. Instead, each of them — in different ways — wilted or froze under the pressure. So, we lost.

    Lots could be said about this. But it will suffice to describe OSU’s three “drives” in last night’s fourth quarter. The grisly details are set forth below. This is a situation where the facts speak for themselves:

    Drive #1:

    Oregon State takes over on downs at the Texas 44 yard line. OSU up 27-17. OSU drive starts with 12:23 left in Q4.

    1st and 10 at TEX 44 Storm Woods rush for a loss of 2 yards to the Texas 46.
    2nd and 12 at TEX 46 Cody Vaz pass incomplete to Colby Prince.
    3rd and 12 at TEX 46 Cody Vaz pass incomplete to Markus Wheaton
    4th and 11 at TEX 46 Keith Kostol punt for 29 yards to the Texas 17 (fair catch)

    DRIVE TOTALS: 3 plays -2 yards, 00:59

    Drive #2:

    After Texas TD, Texas kickoff lands at the OSU 10 yard line, and is returned by Terron Ward 12 yards to the OSU 22 yard line. OSU up 27-24. OSU drive starts with 8:18 left in Q4.

    1st and 10 at ORST 22 Cody Vaz sacked for a loss of 7 yards to the OrgSt 15.
    2nd and 17 at ORST 15 Cody Vaz pass complete to Terron Ward for 19 yards to the OrgSt 34 for a 1ST down
    1st and 10 at ORST 34 OREGON ST penalty 5 yard False Start on Grant Enger accepted.
    1st and 15 at ORST 29 Terron Ward rush for 6 yards to the OrgSt 35.
    2nd and 9 at ORST 35 Terron Ward rush for a loss of 2 yards to the OrgSt 33.
    3rd and 11 at ORST 33 Cody Vaz sacked for a loss of 6 yards to the OrgSt 27.
    4th and 17 at ORST 27 Keith Kostol punt for 33 yards, returned for 12 yards to the OSU 48.

    DRIVE TOTALS: 5 plays 5 yards, 03:43

    Drive #3:

    After Texas TD, Texas kickoff results in a touchback. OSU gets the ball on the 25 yard line. OSU is now losing 27-31. OSU drive starts with 2:24 left

    1st and 10 at ORST 25 Cody Vaz pass incomplete to Markus Wheaton
    2nd and 10 at ORST 25 Terron Ward rush for 2 yards to the OrgSt 27.
    3rd and 8 at ORST 27 Cody Vaz sacked for a loss of 6 yards to the OrgSt 21.
    4th and 14 at ORST 21 Cody Vaz sacked for a loss of 8 yards to the OrgSt 13.

    DRIVE TOTALS: 4 plays -12 yards, 00:50

    OSU Total Offense for Q4: 12 plays for a total of minus-9 yards

    This meltdown is on the coaches (esp. Riley) and on Vaz (who, as QB, is supposed to be the leader of the offense). Look in the mirror, guys.

    • mckalk says:
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      Minor point, but it looks like Kostol didn’t step up when needed also. When the pressure was on he gives the team a 29 and 33 yard punt? I know the one was inside the twenty, but the opportunity was there to pin Texas way back and then who knows what happens if they start at their own 5 instead of the 17.

      I’m sure the defense was tired, but someone needed to step up and make a play, just one play and the game may have turned out different.

    • Beaver Byte says:
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      Yep. And if Riley simply yells at Ward to step back on the Texas punt or calls timeout to fix it instead of just sitting there hoping the refs will ignore it then we also win the game with just that one difference. There were atleast 10 moments last night if even just one was executed right we win the game. Instead Riley froze on about 2/3 of them, ignored a golden opportunity to give Mannion atleast one more drive after the Vaz ankle tweak or to play out the second quarter and see what we had (the very little we saw he looked confident and the offense responded with big runs..all that we needed really), and then despite how horrible Vaz looked throughout all 4 quarters refused to put in Mannion. He acted like if he switched it would have to be permanent. Not the case very early in the 2nd quarter. Mannion mentally looked like he was ready to perform and how bad does Vaz have to be playing to just put another guy in for a while?

      Goe wrote the Beavers inexpicably gave up on rushing, but is that the case when we did the exact same thing vs Stanford and also against Washington in getting too pass happy when that is exactly what loses us these games. This is a Langsdork/Riley bail out method that always haunts them in the clutch yet they keep going back to get burned in every big game. Riley’s record in big games that matter is atrocious. Time after time we come up short. Just once I want to say maybe we rushed too much in the 4th quarter. Smart coaches know the 4th is the optimal time to ice the gain with a steady running game.

      I put some blame on Vaz for being so adamant to return so quickly when he had looked very bad already. Only the running had given us the lead and because Texas was playing bad too. I blame Riley much more for being so adamant on rushing Vaz back out there and then continuing to allow him to play piss poor without doing anything. If we mix the quarterbacks last night with Mannion getting a couple series and maybe going back to Vaz for a series for the hell of it some time early in the 2nd half on our terms and the closing with whoever looks better (Mannion most likely) then we win by atleast 2TDs.

      There is something about the personalities where Vaz has a mental block that he can’t quite get it done and Mannion occassionally may force too much if the pressure is wearing him down for I don’t believe the cliche “If you have two QBs, you have none” is true with these guys right now and with what has transpired this season. Texas did not play well. This game could have been played much better as a farewell game for the season as a reward where both QBs got a decent chunk of time. I expected that to happen before the ankle tweak based off some comments a few weeks before the game but then as the game neared and was played you could just tell Riley was in freeze and stubborn mode from the start of the 2nd quarter when Mannion despite the tweak wasn’t even allowed to throw the ball or any real playing time despite having our best drive when we looked to be in our highest gear of the night.

      It was as if Riley didn’t want Mannion to go in there and maybe be good. Riley made himself a national punching line in this one. By far the worst coaching I have ever witnessed on TV. This was handled worse than the captain of the Titanic.

      • mckalk says:
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        An extremely shitty Kansas team almost beat Texas. KSU and TCU did beat Texas. One thing in common? They all threw the ball less than 15 times. I know some of these offenses are different than what Riley runs, but he had the “run formula” going in the first half despite awful QB play, the adjustment should have been to find creative ways to stay with the run instead of having Vaz drop back on first down time after time.

        Riley is in love with the NFL deep passing game, but the funny thing is that even the NFL isn’t in love with it much anymore.

      • silverstream055 says:
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        Riley’s poor treatment of Sean Mannion during yesterday’s game reminds me of two other situations: (1) Riley’s poor treatment of Ryan Katz in last year’s Wisconsin game; (2) Rex Ryan’s poor treatment of Tim Tebow for the entire 2012 NFL season.

        I don’t think Ryan Katz or Tim Tebow are very good quarterbacks. And Sean Mannion certainly has his flaws (most interceptions by any D1 quarterback over the past two years). But, in my opinion, all of these situations were badly mishandled, and nothing good will come of it.

        Yes, OSU runs a pro offense, and has sent some QBs to the NFL. But if I were a top QB recruit, (or the father of a top QB recruit), I would think twice about putting my career in Mike Riley’s hands at this point….

        • mckalk says:
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          The thing is Katz was actually becoming a pretty good QB in Rocky Long’s system before he got injured and Long was utilizing his mobility effectively. Unfortunately, Katz has had bad luck with injuries.

          • WFO says:
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            Who would have preferred a senior Katz playing this year to the debacle that was on the field?

            I’m guessing if he had stayed the starter he would have taken his lumps but he probably wouldn’t be leading FBS in interceptions.

            The world will never know…

  • beav4ever says:
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    Coaching cost these kids the win period. The coaches need to make adjustments during the game that gives your team a chance to counter what the opponent is doing. Riley and staff have never been able to do this.
    I’m not going to bash Vaz because he did the best he could. Vaz is not a D1 qb. The Beavs do not have a D1 qb on the roster and if they do then they are not being coached to perform(Langsdorf and Riley).
    A few other things from the game.
    Wards off side penalty on punt return giving Texas 1st down and eventually a td.
    Martin can’t be on field.
    Kelly will not give up any more sacks
    W

  • Connor says:
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    I posted some video of that awful flagrant foul call.

    Even though the quality isn’t the best, you can clearly see Collier try to avoid making contact with his elbows, not swinging them excessively. Terrible call that changed the momentum of the game and gave the Tigers an extra point in a game where every point ended up being crucial.

    • Jack says:
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      I still don’t know what the refs thought they saw in the replay. Collier didn’t come close to touching his head even though he tried to thrust it into the shot. That call was worse than a bad call in football which just can’t be overturned because there is no concrete visual. There was concrete video which showed zero contact, and they made up a foul after the fact because some dude pretended to be hurt two seconds after a play ended.

      • mckalk says:
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        It was a weird game, the refs seemed very unimpressed with the Beavs and were not going to give them any benefit of the doubt. I don’t think I’ve seen “palming” called twice in a game since the 90’s. Was this a regular P-12 crew?

      • steveEbeaver says:
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        Jack, I get the impression that the swinging elbow can now be called a flagrant foul even if there is no contact and that if the officials decide it was unintentional it is a one FT foul and if deemed intentional a 2 shot foul. The justification of the rule change is that there were alot of swinging elbows to create room for the offensive player and that it was getting out of hand. Another way to take some heat off the refs, this way they don’t have to make a gutsy call and toss the perps.

        • Jack says:
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          What? That’s absolutely nuts.

          Ripping the ball through the zone is as fundamental as you get in hoops. Is he supposed to ask the defender to hold the ball while he repositions himself on the other side… then calmly thank the guy for holding his ball while doing it?

          While they were watching replays, I was thinking the Towson kid was gonna get slapped with a T for faking it and showing flagrant disrespect and poor sportsmanship. What he did was akin to Cal defenders flopping on Nikegon just to slow the game down a couple years ago.

          And the refs bought it.

          They were bad, but they weren’t “erase a 19 point deficit” bad. That was all on the team for not taking advantage of their size like they had done for the first 25 minutes.

          • steveEbeaver says:
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            Point of emphasis in 2010-2011:
            http://www.livestrong.com/article/417347-can-you-swing-your-elbows-in-basketball/
            But I guess the officials weren’t calling it enough so the NCAA had to strengthen the rule this year. Akin to football’s “helmet to helmet” contact rule, the basketball committee was concerned about concussions and deemed that any contact from an elbow above the shoulders would be ruled an flagrant foul whether intentional (two shots) or unintentional (one shot). I started to read the rulebook but it just made my head hurt so I gave up. Interesting though the points of emphisis this year is getting the charge/ block foul right and sportmanship (we should be seeing alot more Ts this year). The last thing about the elbows is that a coach can request a review at the next deadball and if no foul is asessed then the team is charged with a time out.

            To further confuse things the NCAA issued a statement saying that there can be incidental contact with the elbow no matter where the contact occurs. http://www.ncaa.com/news/ncaa/article/2012-10-15/new-rules-effect-winter-sports

            What I do like is that the head of the rules committee wants officials to call fouls when players are impeding the freedom of movement of other players. I think somewhere Ralph is smiling.

  • helmsley says:
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    And ala Riley, it didn’t appear that CR attempted to plead Collier’s case. When Townson started pulling even, their coach showed great energy, enthusiasm, and encouragement. Robinson, in the only views I saw, looked like he didn’t have any batteries.

    • steveEbeaver says:
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      Although the camera wasn’t on CR I distinctly heard him say, “that’s a bullshit call!” but I can’t remember whether it was that paticular play or another one.

  • bone says:
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    If dashon hunt doesn’t commit to us today, I would highly doubt that it is because of the loss last night, picking a college is a pretty big decision and I can’t see him changing a commitment because of one the day before his commitment. If he decides not to make his commitment today and wait, then I think it is because he had the beavers and is going to change.

  • HopefulBeav says:
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    After searching through multiple forums I haven’t yet found a single person arguing in the defense of Riley. Is there any way to have some of these comments forwarded to Riley and/or BDC? I seems like Riley prides himself on being able to shut out the criticism about himself and I didn’t see him take the blame last night in the post game press conference. With all the love he normally gets from the die hard Riley supporters, he needs to know everyone is blaming him after this one. Maybe it’ll spark a change in his ways?

  • helmsley says:
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    spark change his ways doesn’t compute.

  • homefry says:
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    for the record:

    1) One Growler of Hub Lager
    2) Growler of Boneyard RPM IPA
    3) Crown Royal and Coke
    4) Morphine that I’ve holding onto for a day like that…

  • ddd says:
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    since when did Mannion become awesome???????????????????

    Vaz sucked.
    Oline sucked
    Run game rocked.

    But thinking Mannion woulda done better than Vaz? You’re right, mannion woulda out run okafor

    • alex says:
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      Last year, Mannion really impressed me with his pocket presence. He’s never going to outrun anybody, but he was able to be fairly successful in dodging slightly and making a blitzer miss, while keeping his eyes downfield.

      This year…I haven’t seen that so much. Still, Vaz went down very easy. Remember that shoe-string tackle, where a guy barely got a hand on his foot and Vaz totally collapsed? That was embarassing…

      Also, while throwing the ball away isn’t exactly a strength of Mannion’s, he will do it occasionally. I don’t think Vaz ever has. For at least half of the 10 sacks, Vaz saw the guy coming, should have thrown it away, but hesitated and just went down. That negative yardage killed our chances to call subsequent run plays, and made subsequent pass plays all the more difficult.

      Pass protection was a big problem, but there are some concrete things that a good NONMOBILE qb could have done to improve the siutation. Would Mannion have done them better? Maybe not, but I think so. He at least deserved a shot.

    • HopefulBeav says:
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      I haven’t seen anyone say Mannion is awesome but at least with Mannion there is a chance for a downfield passing game. Regarding the offensive line, Mannion also does a much better job of moving in the pocket, as ‘Alex’ said above. Vaz being so inefficient made Texas’ job of containing Wheaton and Cooks way too easy.

      • ddd says:
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        mannion woulda had to been pretty awesome if he was going to single handedly win that game

  • mb says:
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    Look, everyone thinks that Mannion should have replaced Vaz. But why did Kelly stay in when it was impossible for him to handle the Texas DE? Were there no other options? Did you read the comments about Texas scouting the OS “short set” and knowing exactly how to handle the OS blocking scheme?

    • HopefulBeav says:
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      Teams at any level rarely pull an offensive lineman during a game. Usually if a guy is getting beat they adjust the blocking scheme to help that guy out. I’m still shocked the coaches never tried to help the outmatched Kelly. With all the pressure they were putting on Vaz I was expecting the coaches to leave a TE in to block for 1-2 seconds and then release for a dump off pass.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Particularly given that Okafor was a known factor. It’s not like “Wow, where did that Okafor kid come from?!? He hasn’t been a factor all year.”

      It’s like Riley et al played to their own weaknesses, instead of their strengths.

  • UofDuck says:
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    Hey Fellows, long time… That second half was tough to watch even as a Duck fan. You had the game in the bag, and you could see the moment Riley went into “lets just try to hang on mode” It was palatable. Too bad, I was really, really pulling for you guys, especially after the UCLA embarrassment the other night. There will be not bending the Big 12 trash talk now. You guys out played your opponent and lost. That stings. Sorry about that, honestly. Players showed heart, which is something you really can hang your hat on.

    • angry says:
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      You guys out played your opponent and lost.

      that’s what sucked most.

      Riley and Vas held the entire team back. Possibly would have been a blowout with decent coaching and QB play.

      • Sad Beaver says:
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        Angry,

        To let the o-line have a pass when they put on the worst second half of perhaps the last two years is a travesty. I would say they share more than half the blame of the complete second half collapse. Go back and watch the tape.

  • beaverkman says:
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    It’s valid to valid to crictize Vaz as he really should’ve have thrown a few balls away and looked a little rattled, but I don’t see anybody saying anything about the OL. What a horrible performance and to just let it continue by the coaching staff and sliding the protection over and running draws underneath or chip with a TE/RB is unthinkable. Hard for the QB to be effective when you are constantly getting hit.

    Can we now entertain some changes on the OL coaches? Coach Cav hasn’t done a very good job recruiting or coaching. His best coaching job was when he first got here when we already had Perry, Levitre, Schuening, and Speer. What exactly does Jay Locey do? The tight ends have not been able to block anybody and outside of Hamlett not a one can catch.

    I say you get rid of Cav. But if you can’t do that then get rid of Locey and add Bray full time. If neither one of those are possible then you can get rid of Read (who also adds nothing to recruiting) and move Locey over to Special Teams.

    • alex says:
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      When we talk about poor O-line play we should be a little more specific…because I thought they did a very good job run blocking. It was protection that struggled.

      Without rewatching the game in detail, I suspect that we could more accurately say that our center and guards had a pretty good game, and our OTs struggled. Kelly more than Phillip.

      • Sad Beaver says:
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        Did you watch the second half? Run blocking was only succeeding because the defensive line was in our backfield and the back where able to slip through only to be tackled by the linebackers. One of the worst o-line performances of the year. With perhaps the exception of the center, was a really piss poor performance. I also second the notion that our line on both sides of the ball lacked conditioning. Did Riley give up conditioning? I know mid season lots of teams slow down on the conditioning to cut back on injuries, but you have to keep up with it if you go to these bowl games. Man, I would be very disappointed if this was the case.

    • helmsley says:
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      Does Bray want to stay at OSU?

    • ObjCritic says:
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      I’ve wondered the last few years if Cav should be replaced. His role seems to be “romanticized” – foul mouthed line coach – and over valued. It’s not like he turns these guys into steamrollers and pancakers. I honestly don’t know if that’s a result of zone blocking or what. Not since Quizz’s breakout game against USC have I ever thought the O line just took over a game.

      Next year OSU will arguably have one of its best lines ever across the board with the current and roster and incoming recruits, albeit with some youth. Given the weaknesses of Vaz and Mannion, the inexperience of the other QB’s, and the stable of Woods/Ward/Brown, seem like a good as time as any to be a 60:40 run:pass team and tell the O-lineman to be prepared to run it down their throats and control the game.

      I’d love to see OSU’s line take a Wisconsin or Stanford mindset and seek to become the best unit on the team.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    I wonder if Jackson would take on some helpful role at OSU if he retires

    http://www.turfshowtimes.com/2012/12/28/3811014/st-louis-rams-steven-jackson-retire

    This is speculative, but if the quote about exiting the game like Barry Sanders is correct, I could see him retiring. 9 years is hard on a RB, and 8 straight seasons with 1K+ yards is probably going to be his greatest achievement unless some playoff team with a good+ offensive line is a RB short of contending.

    I think he would be a good spokesman for OSU, is apparently involved in the “rebranding” effort, and could maybe help get the occasional, special RB.

    • mckalk says:
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      The announcers during the Rams/Seahawks game said Jackson was definitely coming back. He wants to test the market and get on a contender, but who knows, Fisher may have the Rams contending by next season.

  • CraigBeav says:
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    Just got home from San Antonio. Beyond the game, man, that city was a shit hole. Not as bad as El Paso, but a real shit hole nonetheless.

  • FedUpBeav says:
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    Did everyone hear Riley chuckle about being told in the 2nd half that they didn’t think the play just before the end of the first half was close enough for a measurement? Wanted to kick him in the nust after hearing that sheepish chuckle and the grin that goes with it. Riley knows he could go with Mannion, Vaz or whoever next year, take his 6 wins and Beaver Nation is stuck atleast through 2022 and likely longer. We are the suckers having the wool pulled over. There is no getting rid of this guy. Did Langsdork earn his 28% annual raise last night? How about Cav? These guys can throw out 4-8 years all they want so long as they hit 6 wins the next, pocket their unpreventable extensions and forcefeed themselves down the throats of Beaver Nation like geese getting forcefed their own gooseliver that don’t even know it.

    • mckalk says:
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      One can hope that it was a nervous chuckle because he knows he’s going to get bitched out by his AD for being lackadaisical and ill-prepared for unique circumstances that pop up during the course of a game but alas I fantasize. It is the chuckle of a man with no worries at the end of the day. The idiocy of Riley’s leadership culminated in his QB spiking the ball on 4th down instead of calling a timeout.

  • beaverkman says:
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    I know this is a bad news thread, but some good news:
    @AnnabelStephan
    Dashon Hunt commits to Oregon State at Offense-Defense Bowl. Full story here: http://recruiting.scout.com/2/1253315.html #goBeavs

    • Beaver Byte says:
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      That is very good news. You need recruits! If Riley can simmply force himself to run more than pass in the 4th quarter he will be fine. He does a good job of taking the lead in the first 2-3 quarters most of the time. If we start realizing that defenses have the toughest time stopping the run in the 4th and error on the side of running as much as we can down the stretch, than we can be a pretty good team. That also will help out our defense.

      Mannion needs to start. Just have to have him get better at screens, less obvious handoffs on runs and get better at beating the rush in the crunch. The key is to have short down and distance. That means you have to always get yardage on 1st downs. That means run it plenty. Woods and Wards are more than capable.

    • bone says:
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      If you watch his sophomore highlights, alot of the plays come against richie Harrington and Richard mullany. Love the way this guy tackles.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      The early season start and attention sure seemed to help recruiting (surprise – winning is attractive). I think the coaching changes, notably Perry, have helped. That’s why I suggest bringing Steven Jackson in some kind of role if possible in the future.

      If in the next cycle, OSU can pick up some quality HS defensive lineman, a few JUCO LBs and a some quality HS LBs, the D should be pretty well set at all levels for the first time in a long time (ever?).

      Next year I would like to see them pick up a true speed RB (something they’ve lacked since Jackson) and a couple of speed receivers. Oh, and it looks like a QB may come in handy.

      But, despite the other problems this year discussed on this thread, very good job on the recruiting trail this year by the coaching staff. Three promising DT prospects (who, when playing together can only create opportunities for one another), and 6 DBs, two of which at least (Nelson, Hunt) are highly regarded. Hasty from last class should be effective in the near future as well. This could create the synergy and opportunity for coverage sacks and for pressure INTs.

      Now about a QB coach, Assistant Coach in Charge of Timeouts, and a new Offensive Coordinator…

    • WFO says:
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      http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Dashon-Hunt-131120

      4 star recruited by Rod Perry.

      Guess that answers that question.

    • ncaa_violation says:
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      Hearing on twitter that Sark has already poached Hunt. It was exciting while it lasted.

  • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    Man was I ever glad that I wasn’t within 2500 miles of that stinking shit show. Switched it off and jumped into the ocean for a purifying swim. Still replaying some of the low-lights in my head. Really spiking the ball on 4th down… high light reel material!

    I wasn’t comfortable with the QB situation going in.. let’s see butterfingers Vasoline or the immobile Mannequin. Tough call. As I pointed out at least the tall guy turns the ball over 30-40 yards down field.

    Has anyone heard from Jason the Beaver? If he doesn’t surface by tomorrow night it’s time for an Amber Alert. JB

    • steveEbeaver says:
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      Ditto for Beavergopher, OMG I hope they didn’t have a suicide pact.

      • Beavergopher says:
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        We did have one at midnight after the game, but Jason forgot to use a timeout and time expired.

        • mckalk says:
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          Snuck a quick glance at some Gopher sites…..looks like Kill could join Riley in that simmering pot according to some of the rodent faithful.

        • hel msley says:
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          Hilarious! At least we know you’ve retained a sense of humor . . . somehow.

  • angry says:
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    Anyone have a blitz membership i can sign in with?
    If so shoot me an email.

  • Sad Beaver says:
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    Whats the over/under on Vanderveen? We think he has a shot to compete? Hows his football IQ?

  • Billy says:
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    Still stuck in Dallas but had to come back on after all this time to arouse Angry by informing him I spent much time consuming adult beveridges with Harrington’s mom after the disaster . What a kick in the ass! She’s as pissed at Riley and staff as I am and her mouth is just as foul! Also talked to Richie for a while. More to report so I’ll leave Angry aroused with anticipation for my next report. Off to DFW to fly home.

  • bigditch says:
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    QB i want to see in Spring Ball = VA…………ANDER VEEN

    • ObjCritic says:
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      I hope there’s an open competition featuring Mannion, Vanderveen, and Harrington. I think Vaz is clearly a relief player.

      Mannion has upside as evidenced by his early season performances and positive td:int ratio. The question is, can he play with confidence and lose the INT habit? The difficult part about answering this question is it takes multiple games.

      I suspect Harrington is a more polished passer than Vanderveen, while Vanderveen seems to have the most physical tools on the roster – height, running ability, and good+ arm strength.

      It wouldn’t break my heart if it shook out like this after fall camp:

      1) Harrington – moves well in pocket (based on HS film), seems to keep eyes down field and finish with plays with his arm rather than being a real runner ;
      2) Vanderveen – intriguing running ability could add new dimension to OSU offense;
      3) Vaz – know system, good attitude, good reliever; and
      4) Mannion transfer.

      I don’t dislike Mannion, and maintain he has strong upside, but if his confidence doesn’t return I suspect a change of scenery may be good for him and the program.

      This change could be supported by an improved running game. I think we can expect Woods and Ward to be better, Brown to contribute, and more improvement on the offensive line (Isaac’s experience, Kelly’s departure), new talented players starting and rounding out depth.

      A non-conference schedule of E Washington, Hawaii, and San Diego State offers a manageable, but progressively challenging experience for a new starter supported by an increased emphasis on the running game.

      • matt b says:
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        Texas exposed (via post game comments by defensive coordinator and defensive end) flaws in Beaver pass blocking techniques. No matter who is the qb, this will have to addressed and changed. Why is it that slow footed qb’s like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning almost never get sacked? Why is it that 5’10” qbs like Drew Brees and Russell Wilson do not have many balls batted down? If Mike Riley teaches/runs a “pro offense” scheme, does it mean the New England Patriots, Washington Redskins etc. employ “college offense” schemes?

        • ObjCritic says:
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          I get it when people point to <=6 ft qb's with success, but there are plenty that aren't successful too, just as there are at any height.

          Kelly was clearly a liability against a more athletic DE; and the adjustments from Riley et al lacking too. A better OT and some coaching responsiveness can address that problem. Its been awhile since OSU had one, or even two, secure tackles the QB could rely on. Do Andrews, Eldrege, Weinrech or Keller play there? I don't know; OSU seems to be better at landing OG prospects than athletic tackles, but I'm guessing whoever is there is an upgrade over Kelly.

          I think the line will be improved next year, but whoever plays has to be able to see the field, make their reads, and make the appropriate decisions. I don't think Vaz sees the field well, uses throwing lanes well, or has the pocket awareness to be successful.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    OT – it will be interesting to see if Chip Kelly will be picked up by NFL soon as axes fall around that league. If he is hired, does he leave before game, leaving O-Coordinator to coach the Fiesta Bowl?

  • Real Question says:
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    Was Riley pathetic in Alamo Bowl? Absolutely. Is he going to be at OSU for a while? Yep. Will they win 10 games next season? Probably.

    The real question I don’t understand, with all the rage in this site how come very little is directed at Craig Robinson. This guy has not done shit. No Jack the CBI means nothing. In his fifth year he has never gone to the NIT let alone the real tourney. He has had one winning season with a pathetically easy schedule of schools no one has ever heard of (including Towson who beat the Beavers at home when they had a 19 point 2nd half lead). He has never had a winning season in the Pac 10/12. Worst of all nobody outside of students and Corvallis residents goes to the games. DeCareless has shown thru out his tenure that basketball doesn’t matter to him, but then again why should it when this once national power with people camping out at the ticket booth for 2-3 days for tickets could care less as well.

    Basketball is the easiest sport in college to turn around. You need one good class, maybe two. ASU and WSU have made quick turn around in recent years. Craig Robinson’s novelty act needs to be booted to the curb, get a real search commitee, pay a fair price and get a fucking coach for the first time since Ralph.

    • beav4ever says:
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      I agree with you 100%. I’ve said forever that CR has no clue about coaching. He does seem to be able to recruit a little but game coaching he is horrible. Offensively they are rat ball and throw something up and hope. Defensively he said he wants to play man to man and yet watching the Beavs play he has no idea how to coach man defense.

    • gobeavers92 says:
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      AMEN!

    • BeaverBill says:
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      10 games? I’m not so sure. The new coaches in the Pac did a great job and we have a second year under their belt. USC and Oregon will still be stong regardless of who is at the helm. I think this was a down year for the Pac and next year will be tougher over-all.

    • Jack says:
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      CBI is the Sun Bowl… now the Holiday Bowl. That’s how important (or not) it is. That’s about all I’ve said about that forever.

      I think it’s important that the culture of the AD at OSU is just a bean counter culture. When I went to school, we weren’t just a hoops school because our football team sucked perennially. We were a hoops school because our hoops team was a national name. Now it’s a byline.

      I hate Lynn Snyder.

      • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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        Lahina Grill, great…. reservations required but you can eat at the bar and chat with the locals. JB

        • Jack says:
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          I think I’ve been there. Fancy food? Isn’t that the place just behind the art gallery?

          • ncaa_violation says:
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            “isnt that the place just behind the art gallery?”

            Describes 90% of the places in Maui.

            • Jack says:
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              That’s not a joke.

              In fact, I think this place is behind two galleries on the corner of Front St. It’s straight up from Cheeseburger, if I remember correctly. We were drunk when we went, and we were set up in the front of the restaurant near the bar. But the seafood there was awesome stuff. It rivaled the best you could get hanging out with locals on the beach on any given weekend… only in a multiple course meal.

              That’s saying a lot for a restaurant in Hawai’i. The locals do it right. And if you throw horseshoes and love huli huli and pupu, you can hang with them for free. You are ohana.

              I love that place.

      • Real Question says:
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        66 to NCAA, 32 to NIT, CBI top 100 to 150 depending on which schools have no shame. Holiday Bowl top 15-20. Jack your a dumb ass.

        • CraigBeav says:
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          I suspect he knows the difference between your and you’re at least.

        • Jack says:
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          *yore

          Top 20% to the NCAA. The next 10% to the NIT.

          Third place bowl game for the Pac is about a 70th percentile match-up. So it may be a push. Obviously an 85th percentile UCLA was deserving of their BCS ranking in how they just spanked the 70th percentile Bears of Baylor. And all (recent) previous match-ups in that game have been SOOOOO awesome.

          I yeeld to yoor brilliants.

          • Jack says:
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            *eye
            *two

          • Jack says:
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            For reference, this year’s Holiday Bowl would have had an NIT team against a CBI team in hoops terms.

            And the CBI team won easily.

            • Real Question says:
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              That’s cute that you feel there is more than 150 teams that matter in the NCAA. At least 15 teams don’t belong in but the NCAA and CBS have convinced you that anyone can win. Outside of maybe 8-10 conferences these AQ teams are always ranked 14-16 with no shot at the sweet 16. I am sure you will share two teams in the last 25 years that made the Sweet 16 but that is irrelevant in proving your CBI argument. Probably 70% of the teams in the Tourney and NIT are BCS schools. You argument is based on numbers you generate to justify your bullshit.

              Now as always you will make up new numbers, try to act superior and dismiss anyone who challenges your bullshit, or make fun of someone.

              • Jack says:
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                Same numbers… same result.

                In fact, you bring up a good point. There are automatic bids for the Tourney which push the percentiles back for “BCS” schools.

                Thanks for making my argument more solid.

              • Jack says:
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                Btw… 150 is an outrageous number. There are about 130 D1 football teams, and the poorest conferences don’t get the luxury of populating the upper percentiles as they do in hoops… or, as you point out, as they do when they get auto qualifiers for the Tourney.

                Do I need to do the math from here?

                This is fun.

                Next.

      • steveEbeaver says:
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        All you have to do is follow the money. We pay to play in the CBI and get paid to play in the Holiday Bowl.

  • ncaa_violation says:
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    Browns, Eagles,Chiefs, Bears have already fired coaches. Somebody is bound to be pushing hard to wrap up a Kelly deal before one of the other teams get him. Should make for an interesting week of Kelly press conferences. If he grew a mustache i could totally see him as the Bears coach. Da Bears! Hes already got the gut to fit in there.

    • Gdub says:
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      add cards, chargers and bills to the list as well

    • mckalk says:
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      Bears aren’t going to stand for any of that visor hat crap though. He either wears the stocking cap or goes in raw. Chip thinks he’s cocky and tough, Bears fans eat people from Vermont as appetizers while waiting for the sausage to finish grilling.

  • matt b says:
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    TV announcers commented that Beaver defensive linemen were so tired that they could not get into normal stances at the end of the game. What would prevent OS from lining up Wynn and Crichton on the same side for obvious passing downs, with Wynn occupying two guys and Crichton stunting or looping? I noticed early in the Cal game the constant package substitutions on defense, I now think that in part, all the substituting was done because the team is poorly conditioned and some of the guys can only go 2-3 plays before needing a breather. For the faced paced Ducks and fourth quarter Longhorns, this is like shooting fish in a barrel. Both Robinson and Martin have been given grief here. I think that they are both ok as situational players. But you have to apply some pressure to the opposition qb, and you have to be smart enough on defensive scheming to not let Texas isolate their fastest guy on your number 3 corner and have to get to the qb before a receiver (knocked out of bounds) can get back into the field of play.

  • BeaverBill says:
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    Watching Vandy vs NC State. I like Vandy’s fiery coach, dude is a crack up. Very engaged.

  • matt b says:
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    Tradition says that you do not substitute for an offensive lineman who is getting overpowered, is tired or is just plain getting beat. But you can substitute if a player loses a helmet or is injured. I think that this was a Mayan tradition.

  • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    Outstanding thread title Angry.

    I wish someone in the national media would put Riley more on the spot with the tough questions. It sounded like Dwight Jaynes was the only one to even come close asking about Vaz/Mannion in the short YouTube clip. That was Dwight wasnt it? Sure sounded like him.

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