15.Dec.2013 During the Dallas Game

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Eddie Lacy got tackled at ~2 yard line inside 2 minutes. He didn’t score the TD but did get the 1st down. The announcers commented how this actually helped the Packers because they could run clock, as opposed to if he scored.

Obviously I thought of Victor Bolden vs the Ducks.

Bigger question though, do coaches start teaching guys to not score in that situation? It seems right now some players do it via intuition (I think I saw Brent Celek go down at the 5 yard line a few weeks ago to run out the clock, but that wasn’t in a game they were behind). As we know, it can be the difference between a win and a loss. I don’t expect Riley to ever teach this (it’s way too progressive for him), but I’m curious to see if it catches on. With modern rules heavily favoring offense, I am not sure you want your D having to make a game winning stand.

If I were a coach I’d teach it and use it in the appropriate situations, but I’d also bring in my reliever in the 7th or 8th inning if that’s when a ballgame were being decided.

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  • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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    No. You score the points when you can and eliminate any chance of error by flopping (e.g. turnover, missed fg). If you D can’t stop them, then you deserve to lose. I don’t think it’s progressive to teach it, and my guess is most people who would take this position didn’t play football.

    • alex says:
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      “If your D can’t stop them, them you deserve to lose”

      That’s definitely conventional wisdom, but I don’t know if that’s true anymore. As Angry points out, rule changes have favored offensive proliferation…it’s not the same game it was 20 (or even 10!) years ago. Just think about the recent OT changes! The NFL has tacitly acknowledged that that sentiment is no longer absolute.

      In addition to rule changes, I also think (at the NFL level) we’re seeing increased monetary incentives for quality players to play offense. Simply put, offensive fireworks sell better than defensive dominance. It gets clips on SportsCenter, and it gets casual fans excited and watching. So I think more and more, NFL teams are paying more for comparable quality on the offensive side. Long term, this will filter down to the college level as well.

      Football is evolving, and I think this type of coaching is a reflection of that. That’s not to say that it won’t loop back around, but I think that’s a worthwhile coaching technique to explore.

      • angry angry says:
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        Yeah the biggest problem is it’s hard to play sound, legal defense anymore. The rules protect QBs and WRs, not SS or FS. You know? So the odds of a PI, unsportsmanlike like, defensive hold, etc all have to be factored in. As does the offensive opponent (for example, if in a tight game vs a bad offense, just score when you can).
        Incidentally, Green Bay’s defense did come up with a big play to end today’s game. I just thought it was interesting to hear announces (forget if it was Buck or Aikman) acknowledge it as a strategy.

    • angry angry says:
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      No. You score the points when you can

      Okay rigid guy who subscribes to maxims.
      Cue BeaverGopher saying he subscribes to Maxim, and it makes him rigid.

      • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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        I was thinking more for the college game. I don’t think I’m being rigid. If teams played normal defense in those situations it increases their chances for winning vs. the likelihood for errors in the other situation.

        • angry angry says:
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          So you think OSU had a better chance of winning by getting a defensive stop vs Oregon instead of milking the clock to 0 and kicking a FG (or taking several chances later in the game clock to score)? That’s funny because as soon as OSU scored I said, “We lost” to my lady…

          A team has much more control over the game when they possess the ball.

          Normal D in that situation is soft D (prevent, 4 man rush, etc)…that’s part of the problem. You can’t play normal D in that situation because if the coach gets beat on a deep pass he has to answer the question “how could you let that happen?”, though maybe not as OSU where nobody asks any questions.

          • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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            The ducks also had 3 timeouts left and Trevor ‘I just want the season to be over’ Romaine left me with the jitters and doesn’t inspire psychological focus for a game winning FG. I meant ‘normal D’ in the sense of playing D that worked earlier in the game, not idiotic prevent D you see in all levels by nearly all coaches. Beavs primarily rushed 3 at the end, which was a mistake. When they brought 4, Mariota threw an incompletion.

            When you’re behind, you want the guy with the ball to be aggressive and focused on scoring, not thinking ‘I should flop here since there’s 2 minutes left’. It’s strange, people want the team to be coached to be aggressive, and then after the fact they want guys in the moment to use their frontal lobe while they’re heading for the end zone. –‘hmm, wait a second, maybe it’s better that I just down the ball here’—

            You see this occasionally on defense after a turnover. It’s a different mindset that kicks in after the guy has ran 10 or 20 yards after the interception.

          • Jack says:
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            I’ll support this statement. You play to win, and taking points is winning.

            But prevent defense has received its rightful lambasting over the last 30 years because it’s not playing to win… and too often you lose because you play it.

            Stick to what got you there, and you have a great chance. Go soft, and you have a great chance to lose. Let’s just go back to the Stanford and Texas games last year. You stop running the ball when it’s working in order to go all pass happy? Why do bad coaches overthink this shit?

            Beat them down, then continue to beat them down until the final whistle. What is so hard to comprehend?

          • Jack says:
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            I should amend that.

            I knew we would lose when we scored because I knew Banker would call a lousy set. Sure enough, Banker called a lousy set, and we lost. If the head coach wants to take credit for that stupid play-calling, more power to him. But it was the guy who is “so steeped in defensive football knowledge” we all knew would screw the pooch. So we all knew what the outcome would be.

            I suppose you could look at it and guess that a well coached team would have done all suggested. But then you would have to admit that we have a well coached team.

            We don’t.

          • Alex says:
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            A lot of good points.

            As Jack pointed out, you probably don’t want to try stuff like that unless you’re a well coached team with great attention to detail. Execution is everything, and we don’t generally execute well.

            Agree that prevent D cost us the Civil War, not scoring the TD with time left. The way we were playing, I like our chances of stopping them.

            Also agree that trying to burn time and not score would have been a bad move. We ran the ball well that game, but not in the red zone. We failed on many RZ opportunities, including several 1 yard runs. I have almost zero confidence in Romaine right now, and his comments reflect that. Set him up to take all the pressure and win (or lose) the game for us? No thanks.

            I think a tactic like this has potential, but do you really think our team could pull it off? We of the constant procedural penalties 12 games into the season? We the team who frequently gets delay of game after a timeout? And not only pull it off, but pull it off impromptu without preparation?

    • scotty says:
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      If you play Banker’s prevent (a stop) D, you deserve to lose (your job).

  • alex says:
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    hah- I posted this in the bball thread right around the same time:

    OT…

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-cowboys/headlines/20131215-joe-buck-calls-dallas-cowboys-loss-one-of-worst-in-franchise-history-troy-aikman-lashes-out-at-clock-management.ece

    Poor clock management? Abandoning the run game despite a lead and major run success? Where have we seen these problems before…

    Is this guy Riley’s role model?

    • angry angry says:
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      I know. It reminded me I wanted to talk about that game…thanks, buddy.

      • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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        As a Packer fan, I was quite pleased with the Cowboys’ “strategy” and was very thankful that Tony Romo pulled a Tony Romo. I was concerned it would be a repeat of the CW.

  • mckalk says:
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    My thought is that teams have a hell of a lot of practices during the season ANY possible strategy that can help win a ball game should be worked on at some point including not scoring to kill time. The object is to win, right?

    Slightly OT, but did anyone catch the Miami/NE game? Phil Simms was freaking out when Philbin went for it on 4th and 5 with about 3 minutes left. Simms is still stuck in yesterdays NFL. The Fins scored and still almost got beat by Brady. Another example of a coach understanding that offense rules in today’s game.

    Speaking of Riley as a strategist….I remember a game where a Beaver was about to get tackled in bounds with the clock being a factor and he pitched the ball to a teammate who was right by the sideline, so that he could quickly go out of bounds and kill the clock. I thought it was a brillant play, but I remember also thinking Riley had nothing to do with that decicsion. Maybe someone here remembers that play and circumstance?

    • wannabeav says:
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      I think that was in the game vs UNLV, in Vegas, 09 season possibly.

      • whiskey soaked naokins says:
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        another example of OSU not playing how they are capable of playing and playing down to the level of competition they face. That UNLV was awful. We witnessed it again this year against Hawaii and SDSU. We should have hung 60 on Hawaii and only a bone headed mistake by the SDSU qb in his first start late in the game did they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. We have seen it time and time again which is a sign of a poorly coached team.

  • Mb says:
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    Speaking of strategists, the most valuable recruit for the Beavers would be Robbie Snelling of Butte College. He is the Offensive Coordinator. Brilliant recruiter, time manager and coach. He has strong ties to the new Boise coach.

  • angry angry says:
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    And back to ESPN/Disney destroying college football, we get “SEC Nation”…

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20131215/sec-fox-nba-ncaa-football/?eref=sihp

    Haha! I encourage this crap. The sooner the farce becomes obvious the better.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    I don’t think coaching players to do this is wrong, but I think that it requires the overall coaching context be smart and sound and for all players in all three units to be aware. I recognize what Angry is suggesting does not make the two mutually exclusive, but I don’t think having Bolden go down at the 1 favors the Beavers in the example, that it was better for Bolden to take 6.

    Yes, for one game, the Beavers run blocked, and maybe they milk the clock and run it in, or kick a field goal.

    Alternatively, the O Line tightens up and returns to mid-season form; or Caleb Smith is juked into another false start penalty by a shadowboxing Duck defender….OSU goes backward, Ward slips and fall, and the long snap is poor, placement is late, and the kick is missed.

    On this team, where too many details are poorly coached, I don’t think it’s wise to have Bolden take a knee. I’d be interesting to see how he was treated if he had done it, especially when it appears players have little authority to even call timeout when the sideline can’t get a play signaled in time.

    That feeling of “OSU is going to lose” was too familiar, and was exactly what it felt like going into the end of the Alamo Bowl when OSU took the lead and I felt like OSU was going to end up losing by 4(?), and the Stanford game last year (though in that example it looked like Riley relaxed too early).

    That said, I’m all for smarter coaching. Don’t expect it from this group though.

    • wannabeav says:
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      well said. For this strategy to work for the beavs requiries top notch execution on four successive plays–Boldin to get down, no false starts or fumbled snaps on the 3 plays to kill UO’s timeouts, and then a productive kick–in a clutch situation; too much to expect.

  • ean says:
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    I believe UofO still had 3 time outs so the Beavers would have needed another first down had Bolden not scored to really burn out the clock. But I do remember thinking that we should have burned more clock before scoring. Tough to expect that kind of situational awareness from a true freshman. Not to mention Riley’s clock management is so poor that even the Riley backers will knock him for it.

    • whiskey soaked naokins says:
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      while true but UO would have had to burn their timeouts while we run it up the gut or take a knee to preserve time. I think that is what is being stated.

  • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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    With this team you take the 6. Field goal unit (although good that game) has been spotty at best this season. You know they’ll move the ball on that final possession and get to within field goal range, but have to have faith your D can keep them out of the end zone.

    Now, on the flip side I do like what the Ducks might have done. Give up the TD with time, and put the ball in your hands to win the game.

    • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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      I should clarify: If tied take the dive. Field goal goes awry goto OT. When down, take the guaranteed points and the 6 point lead.

    • angry angry says:
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      If he goes down at the 1, they have 3 shots at a TD in addition to milking the clock. So I wouldn’t assume that it would come down to Romaine.

      Yes, you run risk or procedural penalties, etc.

  • Bill says:
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    http://espn.go.com/ncf/feature/video/_/page/postseasonallamerica2013/2012-all-america-team

    Cooks make the ESPN All American team. That’s probably the hardest one to overcome the east coast bias.

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      Proof that stars do matter sometimes in recruiting. It has been a joy to watch him the past three years. Beavs are looking at a big drop off next year. No obvious game breakers at WR.
      If Riley was smart he would alter the O next year to take advantage of our depth at TE, but he won’t because that would require thinking outside his comfort zone.

      • ObjCritic says:
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        Interesting point on the TEs, that would be fun to see. Especially with hopefully increased roles for Chris Brown and Haskins….After the Portland Tribune article, I’m hoping that Villaman(sp?) is enough of the alleged physical freak to make a difference…unlikely staff can capitalize.

        We have to hope Bolden grows up, puts on weight, and Mullaney starts learning to get open without the threat of Cooks (who I can’t see returning).

  • wannabeav says:
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    funny you should bring this up, Angry, because when Green Bay got that first down I said to my wife “Dallas will let them score here” and then, when Lacey piles into the end zone I said, “Hell, Dallas has more time left than the Ducks did, and they only need 3 to win.”

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    Beavs basketball is first in NCAA in FG%?

    http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/statistics/team/_/stat/field-goals

    The Collier effect.

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      Collier looks like he has put on some muscle and seems to have more explosion with his leaping.
      Last year he could’nt jump. Knee injury? He is really a force this year.

      • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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        I thought he was a little tentative with the knee last year. It seemed like he’d get mobbed frequently with no call, too.

      • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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        couldn’t …

      • whiskey soaked naokins says:
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        Counter point. Collier looked like a beast last year in non conference play but then disappeared during Pac-12 play. I am withholding my opinion until I see him dominate in conference. Anyone with half his skill set should be able to dominate against the shitty competition so far.

    • Bill says:
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      This is much nicer than the windshield wiper offense of the past few years.

      Collier is looking like he wants to play in the NBA. His footwork has improved a lot. If he can knock down the occasional baseline jumper, he’ll be tough to stop in conference play.

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    Oprah thinks Chip Kelly could get bought out of his Eagles job by Texas boosters to coach their team.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10147169/chip-kelly-philadelphia-eagles-link-texas-longhorns-job-speculation

    Girl, you cray cray!

    • whatever says:
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      ESPN isn’t speculating about anything. They’re reporting on the monumental hubris of the UT athletic department. Texas’ “wish list” might as well have Vince Lombardi on it. They’re batshit crazy.

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      His man boobs would look really terrible in burnt orange. Not a slimming color.

      • whiskey soaked naokins says:
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        he could cover the burnt orange shirt with a white bib for eating those Texas sized steaks

    • scotty says:
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      Too bad for them Sark is already taken :p

  • whatever says:
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    It would have been dumb to take a knee at the 5 or whatever. There’s no guarantee our idiot kicker could make a FG or that we wouldn’t fumble while trying to waste time.

    You want legit reasons to complain, how about that situation? “Gee, I thought we could make a kick.” You’d have, justifiably, shredded him for that.

    Get a stop. That’s the game.

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      Deep down, every Beaver knew the ducks would score and we would lose.

      • whatever says:
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        Yeah, I thought they would score too.

        But if we’d have lined up for a FG with 2 seconds left…there’s a solid chance we would have lost too. But the backlash for that would have been 1000x worse.

        • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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          For Lettuce Boy perhaps, but I would have applauded the strategic thinking.

        • Issaquahbeav says:
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          Totally agree. Imagine the outrage if OSU did take a knee then failed to score.

        • scotty says:
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          Is Riley supposed to be playing to win? Or playing to avoid backlash?

  • osubaby osubaby says:
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    I think, they let the Beavs score, did you guys see San Jose State v Navy a weeks back? San Jose State let Navy score and the Navy coach was screaming for his guy to go down.

    • whatever says:
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      They didn’t let us score. Chip Kelly may have thought that quickly. Clam Digger Helfrich can’t think that fast.

      • ObjCritic says:
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        And Bolden did actually look fast, I was surprised, and pleased, he cut it up when he did. I didn’t expect that from him.

        • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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          And he didn’t fumble!

          • whiskey soaked naokins says:
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            let him do it over. He’ll try to do better and disappoint us more next time. Butt fumble 2, electric boogaloo!

          • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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            somebody thumbed down the buttfumble? Jeez, tough crowd

          • WFO WFO says:
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            I’ll thumb it up just for the Breakin reference. We’re both showing our age, however…

          • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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            I’m so old I don’t even think they’d fuck me in prison

  • whiskey soaked naokins says:
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    breaking news. Dallas Cowboys to take Josh Huff in the first round

    http://espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/story/_/id/10146395/dez-bryant-dallas-cowboys-learn-leaving-early-jason-garrett

  • ObjCritic says:
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    The NCAA SEC Bowl will soon be a fixture on the American calendar…

    http://college-football.si.com/2013/12/16/arizona-florida-host-national-championship-games/

  • angry angry says:
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    This is pretty true

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/kristinchirico/10-signs-your-teams-season-has-gone-to-hell

    • BizBeav says:
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      That article was pretty spot on, my favorite part:

      “Because if there is one healthy coping mechanism, it’s placing all your hopes and fears on the shoulders of 18-22 year olds.”

      • Jack says:
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        I love the NFL and its product. But I’ve never been attached to any one team. I just sort of root for teams within the region I currently live… and against the 49ers just to piss my brother off. It’s not like loving the Blazers for me.

        So I’ve never been so down about the team for whom I cheer that I’m looking forward to the draft and pinning my hopes on who “we” might get. Can you explain why it’s your favorite part? What makes you so attached to an NFL team that you get so down in a poor season you start dreaming of draft picks?

        My favorite part btw… #10 and its pic.

  • osbeavs says:
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    Ray Rice nearly broke off a long run with 30 seconds to go and a two point lead intact on MNF. Even though a TD and XP would’ve given them a 9 point lead, he still went down. Smart coaches are teaching exactly what you bring up.

    • gobeavos says:
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      That wasn’t even close to the same situation as the civil war/Eddie Lacy.

      • osbeavs says:
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        Why isn’t this similar? Because they had a lead. Still the smart play. Players want the big td and stats but he did what he did for the team win. You are an idiot for suggesting otherwise.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    OT – Zach Kline, Cal QB, transferring to OSU, sitting out a year, and will be eligible as a sophomore in 2015 according to Kerry Eggers.

    • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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      I thought you had to sit 2 years when transferring within conference? Either way, I liked what little I saw from this kid last year. He backed up Goeff a few times when Goeff got fumbilitis, and I thought he looked more than capable and probably should have played more minutes for Cal.

  • GoBeavs82 says:
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    Zach Kline coming to OSU. Not sure if this is good or not. Any thoughts ?

    sbn.to/1hfPZ9q

    • Bill says:
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      This is a very lucky pickup. Wow, just a Christmas gift here.

      He’s a pro style QB, 3 years to play! (not sure how that works when he’s redshirted and played this last year). The timing is perfect because he becomes eligible when Mannion graduates. We’ve seen him in limited action and he looked like the freshman he is but the upside is big. He was a consensus top 5 QB recruit out of high school.

      Downside – Well he was allowed to transfer within the conference and the division which is very unusual. So maybe Dykes is just getting rid of dead weight.

      • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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        agreed

      • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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        I thinkI think he’ll only have 2 years to play. Already burned redshirt in 2012, played in 2013, sits in 2014, eligible in 2015/16

        • GOBeavs GOBeavs says:
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          I don’t think the year they make you sit out counts against your eligibility.

          • Bill says:
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            It must have something to do with him going to a JC first. (I assume he’ll go to Linn-Benton, that would be smart since the credits would transfer better to OSU than an out of state school). He is not directly transferring from Cal to OSU. I can’t find anything that would lead me to believe he’d only be a sophomore when he becomes eligible.

            http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/usc/genrel/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/pac12-transfer-guide-4year.pdf

            And sitting out a year while attending a d1 school counts for eligibility. The 2 year rule for transferring within the conference was abolished a while back. He’s can’t be on scholarship either so he must really want this.

          • mckalk says:
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            If this were Duck basketball, I believe that Kline would be eligible to play this weekend.

          • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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            truth

          • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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            Good one!

          • mckalk says:
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            Is it wrong that I have less respect for Altman (I know he can coach) because he keeps bringing in GOOD seniors from other programs? By the same token, Quack recruiting must have great radar to find these disgruntled stars and get them in with eligibility remaining.

            It seems like a shortsighted way to build a program, but I suppose it’s not much different than one and done freshmen. If you can get them, then get them.

    • Jack says:
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      We’ve seen it before:
      http://articles.latimes.com/2003/dec/05/sports/sp-uclafb5

      Isn’t this the back end of our trade with Cal for the brothers Krebs? More than fair IMO.

      • ObjCritic says:
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        What?!? OSU got the good end of a deal? Why couldn’t this have happened with Nike?

        Let’s see if they’re on a roll, what can they get for BDC?

      • ObjCritic says:
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        Well that mobility stuff will have to go, otherwise, looks pretty intriguing but for the TD:INT.

    • Issaquahbeav says:
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      Don’t get it. Dude couldn’t beat out Cal’s number 1 and that guy wasn’t good.

      • Jack says:
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        True… and we all know Sonny Dykes made nothing but good decisions last year too.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Speaking of 2015, from the OLive regarding practice the other day:

    “Note: Nearly a dozen prospective recruits, including Sprague High School’s Levi Long, watched practice Sunday. Long is a 6-foot-7, 263-pound junior offensive tackle.”

    I couldn’t find Long in Scout, ESPN has Long as “NR” at this point (he is a jr), a glacial 5.67 40 but a 4.2 shuttle.

    Scout is saying 2*, 6’4″ 300 lb DT Vakameilalo from Hawaii is a soft verbal.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Kevin Cummings to play in Hawaii, from Scout:

    “I’ve got some more rehab and stuff to do,” Kevin Cummings said. “I’m doing a lot of flexibility (training) just in case I need to catch the ball, or if I fall.”

    Really? In case you need to catch the ball or in case you maybe hit the ground?!? I don’t get that. Is he on ST, and maybe planning primarily on kick coverage instead of playing WR?

    • HopefulBeav says:
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      That’s 3/3 so far giving him the “consensus” designation. The American Football Coaches Association and the Football Writers Association of America still haven’t published their teams. He needs these final two to get the “unanimous” All American title. Interesting note about the FWAA group though, they haven’t selected an Oregon State player as a first team AA since 1968. No Hass. No Paea. No Poyer.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Hope some image of Cooks, along with his AA designations, goes up on some wall somwhere in VFC for recruits to see. (Hass’ and Poyer’s too).

      I noted only one Duck player, listed at 3rd team CB.

      • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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        In classic Duck fasion, his teammate, Troy Hill, went out and celebrated his buddies 3rd team All American award by going and choking somebody out. Got him a trip to Lane County clink and suspension from their bowl game. Victim’s identity hasn’t been revealed, but whispers are it was a female. Hill lists LaMichael James as his biggest inspiration in life on twitter. (ok, i made that last part up)

        http://www.kptv.com/story/24235807/ducks-football-player-suspended-following-arrest

        • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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          They should have built a police substation in the “Death Star.” It would maximize efficiency. No lost practice and training sessions riding back and forth to the clink in the paddy wagon.

  • carltogr carltogr says:
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    I had a dream last night….Beavs up by 14 points late in a major bowl game (wearing white unis). Defense lining-up in the opposing teams territory. Had an air of “don’t f*@%@ -up” by the commentators. I don’t remember much else.

  • carltogr carltogr says:
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    ….not quite sure how to interpret the dream. Did I wake up before it turned into a nightmare, or were the Beavs going to pull it out….I’m left guessing.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    This may have been posted bu, S-I All-America team with Cooks on first team:

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-football/news/20131217/college-football-all-america-team/

  • Jack says:
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    OT… if you’ve been following D2 and D3 football (where real champions are crowned), you might have seen Wisconsin-Whitewater didn’t panic against a good Linfield team in the quarters:
    http://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2013-12-07/wisconsin-whitewater-stages-comeback-advance-semifinal

    Then they had to do the same against Mary Hardin-Baylor in the semis:
    http://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/2013-12-14/jordan-ratliffe-and-matt-behrendt-spark-uw-whitewater-stagg-bowl

    The result is a familiar W-W vs Mount Union final.

    Some of the numbers are just nuts. Linfield’s rushing TD was only the fourth rushing TD against W-W all year? Their QB has only thrown one INT all year? There’s just something about old school slobber-knocker football that gives me warm fuzzies.

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      Pencil those two teams in every year. Whitewater has a great little stadium.

  • wannabeav says:
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    Mannion possibly leaving; Kline arriving. interesting dynamic. Probably unrelated since Kline can’t play until 2015 anyway. Maybe this is Sean’s “payback” for Riley making him sweat it out over the summer. With Mariota and possibly Bridgewater staying around for another year Sean may think he can get 2nd round money.

    • Bill says:
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      Doubt it’s payback. The coaches went all in on Mannion this year. When he had bad games, they never pulled him for Vaz. Even if blowouts, they kept him in.

      Even if all those guys stay in school, he’s a 5th rounder at best, meaning he’ll have to hope to catch on as a backup. If he stays, he could work himself into a second day pick. He’d have to have a heisman year to get into the first round.

      Hopefully it’s not a browner situation again where someone got in his ear and told him he was a first rounder and ended up not getting drafted.

    • Issaquahbeav says:
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      Sean will wait on Cooks to make a decision first. Clearly, his numbers won’t be as good next year without Cooks. Plus, he may be waiting for some NFL intel when it comes to how deep of a QB class will be both this year and next

    • mckalk says:
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      Is there some inside information? Where has it been mentioned that Mannion might leave?

  • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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    Zach Kline may not have had great success at Cal this past year, but ZK was truly a top prospect coming out of high school a couple of years ago. See, for example, the assessments by multiple scouts cited in this 2011 article, praising Kline’s elite arm strength and accuracy: http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2011/7/22/2289201/zach-kline-2011-elite-11-qb-strongest-arm.

    “Kline showcased great arm strength that put him on par with the two highest-rated prospects in this class in Gunner Kiel and Jameis Winston. But as the week wore on and other quarterbacks dropped off in performance, Kline steadily improved day-by-day. His ball placement was excellent, threading the needle on difficult throws; he made his reads and seemed to make solid decisions on all his routes. He would also win the award for strongest arm, according to Brian Stumpf of ESPN.”

    OSU doesn’t land many prospects as highly rated as Zach Kline. ZK — in choosing OSU — was likely influenced by the big numbers posted this year by Mannion and Cooks and by the Beavers’ pro-style passing attack. ZK’s choice of OSU is likely to surprise some people and turn some heads. Now it’s up to OSU’s recruiters to take advantage of this. Is that too much to hope for?

    • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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      OSU was also Kline’s only other scholarship offer out of high school besides Cal. Most teams stayed away from him because he was a solid Cal guy, but Riley must have thought “why not throw the kid an offer?” It worked out in the long run.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      The running back stable looks good – espcially if Mattison ever shows up – WR not bad. They’re going to need better OLine talent (run blockiers?) and more TE’s by then.

  • Jack says:
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    Back to recruiting…
    Bobby Keenan from American River CC will be a Beav. Early signing means he’ll count against 2012 numbers.
    http://www.hudl.com/athlete/365968/

    • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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      Bobby “the Brain” Keenan? Wonder if his parents were WWF fans in the 80’s?

      Mike Riley ?@Coach_Riley 8m

      Excited to welcome Bobby Keenan to #BeaverNation, he will join us in January and get to work with @CoachCavOSU! #GoBeavs

  • Jack says:
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    OT… this is pretty funny.

    Paul Offit has tried recently to make a name for himself (and sell books) by attacking Linus Pauling and the idea of taking dietary supplements. He wrote an article in July which was just poor reading, and I was wondering if anyone was going to respond to him in the negative since he’s a heavyweight in medical circles already. I almost didn’t complete his article because the only way you can read the very first sentence is to conclude that some people just don’t die.

    So OSU took its time to respond. And they just bitch-slap Offit into next week. I can’t wait for his next tirade in response.
    http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/news/offit-response.html

    • oneoldbeav says:
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      Thanks, Jack. I especially appreciated the LPI response to Offit’s suggestion that vitamin C caused Paulings death….at 93!

    • angry angry says:
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      Jack, do you agree that if people eat properly they won’t need to concern themselves with either faction?

      Instead, Obama names a Monsanto guy head of the FDA.

      Life is surreal.

      • WFO WFO says:
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        Build a greenhouse broseph.

      • Jack says:
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        Obama was sold as soon as Larry “Let Them Eat Pollution” Summers was named his “economic adviser” for his campaign. It should have been immediately recognized by everyone that Obama was just a corporate schill who would buy the CIA realpolitik line.

        And that’s just what he’s done. And he gets cover because the extreme liberals that are the Tea Party (except for racial and religious… same difference… issues) just fuck the country left and right… and supposedly right again.

        We live in one fucking stupid country, and yet it’s just awesome…. for now.

        The point is that it’s hard to find healthy foods in order to eat a healthy diet. So many healthy foods have become miracle cures for this and that and weight loss and whatever. So you can get in a good groove and just get whacked one day because your favorite greens are suddenly a nationwide fad.

        So while I always demand a product, I am adversely affected by the artificial cycles created by supply-siders who market products in order to create demand cycles. And it is constantly annoying when it comes to food. As a result, supplements really are necessary to maintain a consistent healthy diet. Excessive amounts of supplements have proven to be good (vitamin C) and bad (potassium) over time via sound studies.

        And that’s where Offit comes in. To say he’s one side of a faction is incorrect. He is a single-minded curmudgeon for the sake of only his purpose. What that purpose is really isn’t clear. He makes money… lots of it. And he touts pharmaceuticals as the “other faction” opposed to dietary supplements. If he wasn’t backed by heavy heavy money, he would be a joke. He doesn’t argue for nothing in the wake of dietary supplements (which have been in existence forever btw). Instead he argues for pharma instead of it. And he’s paid by pharma… Merck to be exact.

        The science he produces is half-assed… and CYA. And it’s really not sound. But it and he are both really really well funded and really really loud.

        In the end, a good diet is better than a poor diet. But neither is a complete diet these days… without a ton of work. Before Reagan made every second adult in each family go to work in the name of expanding the economy, that second (or now called “stay at home”) adult had the time to care for such things. Hell, I remember when “latch-key kids” were a moral problem for the very people whose “economic” ideas created the condition in the first place. Ask kids now what they think a latch-key kid is and if it’s out of the ordinary.

        I could go on and on and on about diet, econ and home. So I’ll just stop now.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    After Cooks won his award, OSU should have produced and circulated a highlight video to help with all the various AA votes….has anyone seen such a video?

  • WFO WFO says:
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    You guys are fucking boring me so I’m going off topic.

    OT #1:

    Bad Religion released a Christmas album and it’s fucking awesome.

    • angry angry says:
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      Bad Religion…haha.
      I remember those guys.

      • WFO WFO says:
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        They’re so good. I don’t know what kind of music you’re in to or when you listened to them last but they’re great. 3 guitars now. Huge sound.

        Did you know Greg Graffin has a PHD from Cornell and is a professor at UCLA?

        Youtube “sorrow” acoustic. Amazing.

        • angry angry says:
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          My favorite genres are (Delta) blues, punk, and “indie” (American underground mostly, like Dinosaur Jr, Husker Du, etc).

          When digging into all those bands in the 90s I came across Bad Religion. I forget which CD of theirs I owned, but it was good. I never dug in further for some reason.

          The lead guy from the Descendents also went on to get a PHD from a fancy school…I think in something nuts like physics.

          • WFO WFO says:
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            Milo Aukerman. Yeah it’s physics of some kind I think.

            Graffin’s is evolutionary biology I think. UCLA’s TV ad throws him a bone which is pretty cool.

          • Jack says:
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            Graffin is actually really outspoken against stupids who shrug off evolution as if it were just a theory.

          • WFO WFO says:
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            Did you hear the song on the newest Foo Fighters album that Bob Mould from Husker Du did vocals on? Very cool.

          • WFO WFO says:
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            That album from the 90s was probably Stranger that fiction. Great album. Had a couple of radio tunes on it.

          • WFO WFO says:
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            Stranger than fiction.

          • angry angry says:
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            No I haven’t heard it. I stopped listening to all new output from those bands except Dinosaur Jr (they recently played in SB, and of course I went) because it was on a clear downward trend. I could talk about music forever…I just assume nobody wants to.

          • WFO WFO says:
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            Ha me too I’m a total boner about it :).

            Don’t get me started on guitars and amps either.

          • angry angry says:
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            Nice. Funny you mention that, I was just thinking of building a jazzmaster from Warmoth. I’m not sure if I have enough skills to pull it off. I hear their wood and components are now better than Fender’s.

          • WFO WFO says:
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            Warmoth has always been great quality. I have thought about building a few guitars out of their stuff too. I’m more of a Les Paul guy tho. Had an SG Classic with P90s that I never should have sold.

          • ObjCritic says:
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            I have an SG I love but I can’t play worth a damn…I should probably sell it to someone who can someday. Sentimental value, my first electric guitar.

          • angry angry says:
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            I’ll take it.

          • WFO WFO says:
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            That latest Foo Fighters album is really good. Recorded the whole fuckin thing straight to analog in Dave Grohl’s basement. They’re 3 guitars now too. You should check it out. It’s not The Colour and the Shape, but what is?

        • Jack says:
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          We were talking about Graffin last year around this time?

          I like Bad Religion just fine. I think they’re a little formulaic at times, but I like a couple of their songs a lot. And I can name almost all their recent songs. I can’t say the same for anything called popular these days. So there’s that.

          I stick more to the folk side of punk instead of the grungy/metal side. I just think it’s more fun. So I like the Pogues and this little ditty which describes nothing remotely similar to any of our lives.

  • WFO WFO says:
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    OT#2:

    Magpul furniture for the Mossberg shotguns is finally hitting the shelves. I had Bear at Barons Den order me 2 sets, one for my 590 and one for my brother’s 590A1. Should be here in about a week and I’ll update when it’s here. FDE hasn’t shipped, black only. Looks like I’ll have to get crafty with my barrel shroud if I want to keep it.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      My trusty 870 Wingmaster still delivers. Imagine that; an un – rifle, full choke barrel stills throws a handful of shot at birds..

      • WFO WFO says:
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        My crusty as hell old winchester 2 3/4″ non-ubersupermagnum still puts em down with authority too.

      • ObjCritic says:
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        And, the pre-64 Winchester .308 still responsibly delivers the bullet just behind and slightly below the ear of an elk.

        Trout fly rods next? The Cabela”s Tight Quarters rod is a great value…

        • WFO WFO says:
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          Yeah buddy. My Dad gave me his Mauser 98 30-06 when I was in high school. When I got back from the marines I had a Shilen barrel and Timney trigger fitted with a B&C stock. Drives tacks and kills everything I point it at. Recently upgraded optics from the old Leupold VX2 3-9 to a new Weaver tactical 3-15. Stock is getting kinda beat these days, thinking about getting it camo coated.

          • WFO WFO says:
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            Can still see some of the WW2 German military markings on the action. Dad bought it at coast to coast or sears or some shit in the early 60s.

          • angry angry says:
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            thinking about getting it camo coated.

            So you can look like every wannabe tactical guy on youtube???

          • WFO WFO says:
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            Yep, gotta keep up with the mall ninja next door :).

            Actually the stock is black synthetic and whatever they coated it with is coming off in big spots. Not gonna coat the barrel or action, probably just coat the stock multicam. Cerakote.

          • Jack says:
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            Is yours a G98 or a K98k? That’s one damn fine rifle.

          • WFO WFO says:
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            K98 I believe. WW2 German military surplus, sporterized by who knows who in the 60s.

          • Jack says:
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            That’s too bad. I’m sure it doesn’t bother the function. But I just love those vintage 30-oughts with the full wood stocks. I have a Garand and a Springer both handed down from my two grandfathers… both of them jarheads who never told any stories to me or any of the other kids until we served ourselves. Those rifles have been to places nobody wanted to be in the first place.

            And finding ammo for them is increasingly hard. But they’re just so pretty.

          • WFO WFO says:
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            Yeah it was a hunting rifle before I was born. They are nice when they’re factory. My dad has an 03 Springfield, a garand and a carbine and they sure are sweet to handle and shoot. He also has a mosin and a couple of trapdoor springfields and a few others I can’t recall. He likes the old military iron.

        • WFO WFO says:
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          Trout rods…I haven’t fly fished in years but my grandfather was huge on it. I have about 10 hand made in Scotland bamboo fly rods that he had built to his specs. Have his name hand painted on them and everything.

          • ObjCritic says:
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            That’s great. My dad refinished some bamboo rods and gave me one for a present when I graduated from OSU. They’re noodles compared to today’s rods, but great fun to fish. He named some of them (local topographic feature names) and hand painted the names on.

            So, when NCAA football completes it’s spiral descent down the toilet, Angry can have a site with political topics and a forum with “off-the-grid” behaviors including healthy eating (hunting, fishing, growing).

        • Jack says:
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          Elkhorn, Echo and Greys make better budget rods and intermediate rods. The TQRs are ok, but I wouldn’t want my kid to experience one before he knew what a good rod felt like.

          The wingmaster will never die.

  • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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    I haven’t read every post here yet but has anyone seen that Kline is transferring from Cal to OSU? Wants to start somewhere. Does he really think OSU is the place?

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Lots of interesting “OT” posting here, maybe we should start using the “Free for all” forum when OSU sports is slow….

  • mckalk says:
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    I must admit I never thought I would read about Bad Religion, Mauser rifles, boners, incompetent athletic directors and a possible QB transfer in the same thread, but I guess that is what makes Angry Beavs so great!

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Does this sound like OSU at UW or OSU v. Texas in the Alamo Bowl? Dallas abandoned successful run game:

    “In the first half of their Sunday game against the Green Bay Packers, Dallas ran for 93 yards on just 11 plays — all carries from DeMarco Murray. The Packers’ defense had no real answer for it, and it was the primary reason the Cowboys were up 26-3 at the half. The run balance allowed Tony Romo to be as efficient as he’s ever been, completing 16 of 27 passes for 250 yards and a touchdown in the first half alone. For one dreamy first half, the Cowboys looked every bit like the Super Bowl contender Jerry Jones keeps trying to tell us they are.

    Then, the play-calling went sideways. Up by 23 points, Dallas ran the ball a grand total of seven times in the second half, relying on Romo to throw the ball 21 times. The results were as predictable as can be: The Cowboys controlled the ball for more than eight minutes in each of the first two quarters but dropped to 7:43 and 6:30 in the final quarters.

    Romo threw two abysmal fourth-quarter interceptions that lost the game if you’re into that narrative, but the real problem was the fact that, for whatever reason, the men behind Dallas’ offensive game plan abandoned the run. Dallas’ defense reverted to form, the Packers went on a charge, and the 37-36 Green Bay win was one of the most ridiculous and painful in the Cowboys’ long history.

    If you’re surprised by Dallas’ reluctance to run the ball in the second half, you’re not alone. After the game, several Green Bay defenders wondered aloud just what the heck those guys were thinking.

    “Oh, my God,” defensive tackle tackle Ryan Pickett said, via Bob McGinn of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel. “It’s the best zone scheme in the league. They say it’s old, the Wisconsin scheme.

    “The last four weeks, nobody could stop it — their zone scheme. And they gave up on it. We’re just happy they did. We were, like, ‘OK, we’ll take it.’””

  • ObjCritic says:
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    And from the Portland Tribune, Kerry thinks OSU might have enough to get it done in Hawaii:

    http://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/204615-kerry-says-beavers-may-have-just-enough-in-hawaii-bowl

    The fact that BSU has a 220 lb RB that averaged 5.9 YPC is concerning….

  • mb says:
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    Played with Zach Kline grandpa in HS. Unbelievable football/baseball player originally recruited by Beavers but signed with Dodgers as 5th rounder. He made it to AAA. Kid can play and will at least provide real competition at a key spot.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    OT: From a regional perspective, and the fact that as kid the Seahawks were the team I followed, Seattle’s success is somewhat enjoyable. But it looks to me like “Cheatin’ Pete” still runs a dirty “program” with all of the PED issues (which are likely quite common in the NFL) and now Browner suspended indefinitely:

    http://nfl.si.com/2013/12/18/seattle-seahawks-brandon-browner-suspended-indefinitely-violations-drug-policy/

    How does the league apply this in states where pot is legal? I suspect Seattle and Denver are prime free agent destinations now…..

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Eggers reporting an NFL scout projects Chricton as a mid to low round pick, and it would benefit him to return and try to have a great senior season. I’m thinking Chricton returns, and Cooks does not:

    http://www.pamplinmedia.com/pt/12-sports/204766-eggers-next-stop-the-nfl-for-cooks-crichton

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Jonathan Smith to UW (booooo!). From the Seattle Times:

    “Petersen is adding another Boise State assistant to his new UW staff. Former Oregon State quarterback Jonathan Smith will join the Huskies after the bowl season, a source confirmed to The Seattle Times. Smith, 34, will be UW’s quarterback coach after spending the past two years in that role at Boise State.

    It’s unclear who Petersen has pegged as UW’s offensive coordinator, but Smith has experience as a coordinator at Montana from 2010-11. He spent six seasons before that as the Idaho quarterbacks coach. ”

    Good to see Smith’s career progressing. I imagine before or around 40, he’ll be an OC somewhere, and this UW gig will be great experience for him.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Although it’s only CFN Scout, it’s nice to see them pick Cooks for PAC-12 Offensive Player of the year:

    http://cfn.scout.com/2/557661.html

    Their “Best Game of the Year?” OSU @ UO….the two teams combined for over 1,100 yards of offense.

  • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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