03.Jan.2014 Riley’s Refusal to Play Backups

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Could hurt OSU again if Mannion goes pro.

From October:

Brent Vanaderveen should get the mopup time, rather than Cody Vaz.

Vaz will be gone in a few months. Vanderveen, we are told, is the future QB. Mannion might leave early. So what is the logic in putting Vaz in blowouts? He has experience already, so they don’t need to groom a backup, they need to groom a future starter. Now that the schedule becomes difficult, the opportunity to get Vanderveen time has passed. Riley overlooking another (logical) opportunity. Watch how this hurts down the line.

People go nuts in the comment section: http://angrybeavs.com/football/9537

Riley could have played him the very next week versus Cal, or versus Washington (early season opportunities vs Hawaii, WSU, or Colorado).

For those who argued Vaz had to be the backup to stay engaged. Well, I have news for you, folks: Vaz never played in those games or became engaged, and now he is gone, and Vanderveen has zero snaps. How do you like that foresight? How do you like them apples?

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  • angry angry says:
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    BTW, there is recruiting info in the forums, and GWH is telling us how to make venison.

    • GreatWhiteHunter says:
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      Just added tips on canning venison…hopefully some of our other sportsmen can chime in with their game preparations.

      Next one will be either my razor clam linguini or razor clam chowder…

    • mckalk says:
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      I grew up on venison sausage and loved hunting as a boy with my father, but now that I’m old, fat and bloated, I’d rather stay in a nice hotel and watch tv then be bothered to hunt.

  • Numbers says:
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    I’m past being frustrated with seeing the obvious not happen. This season ended perfectly for BDC, Riley and co. 99% of the fanbase disconnected with the team/results and no pressure felt.

    • wannabeav says:
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      wait till the reports on BASF (oops, OBN) donations come in, or more likely, season ticket renewals. I think this is the year the folks vote with their pocket books.

      • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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        Que media saying how the fanbase is fickle and expectations a little ol’ Oregon state are too high.

  • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    I’d be more impressed with your foresight if you’d added that you were 100% certain that Mannion wasn’t going to get hurt during that time period and that we absolutely wouldn’t need Vaz fir the rest if the year. That’s how I like your apples, sauced.

    • angry angry says:
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      Vaz was a former starter and senior–didn’t need a ton of reps to perform in a game. And I am talking game reps, not practice. Split backup reps in practice between Vaz and VV, then have VV jump Vaz during meaningless game action, and Vaz jumps VV during any meaningful game action.

      If Vaz were a sophomore and the Beavs had a Rose Bowl caliber team I wouldn’t really care that Riley handled it the way he did. Riley is on record saying he sticks with starters too long, fwiw. At least he realizes it; he just doesn’t seem to ever do anything about it.

    • homefry homefry says:
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      Jason beat me to the punch–foresight is 100% second-guessed in hindsight

    • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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      Well, if were clear we were headed for the conference title game, then you finesse whenever you can, and keep Vaz as fresh and game-ready as possible. But it was pretty quick into the second half of the season that we weren’t going anywhere. So prepare Vanderveen for the future.

      But we all know Riley doesnt work that way. He doesnt really give a shit about any conference title, and…..yes, has never won one. No rationality in decisions is required.

      So he could leave a decision about who to play QB to anyone…..what the hell does he care about the future, or even the last part of a game?? …. he has his contract and will end up as one of those iconic retired coaches, despite having a mediocre record overall — wait and see….lol.

  • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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    As the old saying goes: foresight is 20/20.

  • ean says:
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    Dam some pretty good foresight in one of the comments about borrowing some stuff that New England does.

  • mckalk says:
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    I’m pretty ambivalent on this topic. It doesn’t seem like freshmen quarterbacks getting their first game experience against the Beavers ever have any problems functioning. Uncomplicate your famous “pro-style” offense, MR and let the damn kids play ball!

    • wannabeav says:
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      the “we can’t get good play from a QB until their 3rd, 4th, or possibly 5th year”
      is another one of the OSU football “cover stories” that just drives me nuts. Everyone else seems to manage to get their young guys to play well early; including the kid for Oklahoma just last night. I still remember NIck Foles getting his first start in Corvallis and lighting it up. It’s all a part of the protective cocoon around this program to explain away mediocrity if not failure. getting sick of it.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    There were a couple of games where it was just stoopid to have Mannion/Cooks still out there late, but Riley was enjoying the roll of his one-dimensional offense and yucking it up on the sidelines. He could have given Vanderveen reps and worked on run blocking…I remember posting something like “win or lose, Riley is a grinning idiot” due to the unnecessary risks to which he was subjecting Mannion/Cooks.

  • GOBeavs GOBeavs says:
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    Vaz didn’t even get many reps in these games. Only had 18 attempts all season. Those 18 reps wouldn’t have mattered too much to VanderVeen… and the starter could always be Kempt or one of the true freshmen if they end up looking amazing.

    Riley just doesn’t put backups in. Ever. It’s funny because it seems like he’s being aggressive and running up the score, but he is actually being overly conservative and afraid to let a team back in the game.

    I wonder if that lack of confidence started with Riley, infected the team, and eventually filtered its way to us fans after years of watching this team.

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/482557/cody-vaz

  • GoBeavs82 says:
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    This morning I had coffee with WANNABEAV . He both take a few months off from BEAVER Sports – He waits for baseball to start and I follow my adopted MBB team – Gonzaga to the tournament each year.
    The subject of special teams performance surfaced, so this afternoon I compiled a few stats on the performance of OSU vs. our 2013 regular season competitors. Only the opponent’s OSU game is included.
    Average of all 2013 Kickoff plays in rank order by field position.
    Avg Avg
    Field Return
    Position Yards
    UW 30.6 36
    WSU 28.6 18.3
    ASU 26 25.0
    EWU 27 17.0
    CAL 28.3 20.6
    CU 26.5 15.3
    UTAH 25.4 21.7
    USC 25 –
    Oregon 24.8 19.1
    OSU 24.6 19.0
    SDSU 23.6 23.3
    STAN 23 16.7
    Hawaii 21.8 13.0

    NOTE: Stanford had a 14 yd return which impacts their average, they also returned two other kickoffs past the 25 yd line.

    USC’s decision to always take the Touchback was interesting and I wanted to see if USC had a sound strategy to simply take the ball on the 25 yard line and avoid a holding penalty or injury. When a team does decide to field the ball, this was their resulting field position:
    Field Position
    UW 48
    WSU 30.5
    ASU 30
    EWU 29.7
    CAL 28.3
    CU 26.5
    UTAH 26
    USC 25
    Oregon 24.7
    OSU 24.3
    SDSU 22.7
    STAN 22.3
    Hawaii 19.7

    No doubt OSU needs to make better decisions here. If USC had a strategy, it certainly was better than OSU’s decision. I’ll assert that USC simply didn’t want to get anyone hurt and taking the touchback was the best approach and certainly didn’t hurt. OSU’s low yield on kickoff returns is alarming and begged the question, “how often do we field the ball?”
    Touchback Fielded
    UW 3 2 40%
    WSU 3 6 67%
    ASU 4 1 20%
    EWU 4 3 43%
    CAL 0 9 100%
    CU 3 4 57%
    UTAH 5 3 38%
    USC 3 0 0%
    Oregon 1 7 88%
    OSU 8 61 88%
    SDSU 2 3 60%
    STAN 1 3 75%
    Hawaii 2 4 67%

    No surprise to see Oregon field most of their kickoffs against us with DAT receiving. And CAL was playing catchup most of the game, but at some point the OSU special teams coach must recognize that we aren’t making it out the 25 yard line so why keep trying and risk a turnover? Is our special teams coach mathematically impaired? Or just stupid? How much are we paying for this underwhelming performance? Time to look at salaries –
    UW Johnny Nansens $225K
    WSU Eric Russell $226K
    ASU Joe Lorig $190K
    EWU
    CAL Mark Tommerdahl $206K
    CU Jeff Hammerschmidt $160K
    UTAH Jay Hill $225K
    USC John Baxter
    Oregon Tom Osborne $367K
    OSU Bruce Read $305K
    SDSU Kevin McGarry $167K
    STAN Pete Alamar
    Hawaii Chris Demarest

    YEP, we’re not getting our money there! 2nd highest paid special teams coach and delivered the worse performance against PAC12 teams with only 1 exception.

    In fact, there are a couple of guys that I hadn’t heard of before today’s research that have an interesting background. Eric Russell took a $50K pay cut to come to WSU and work under Mike Leach with hopes of accelerating a chance at a HC position. His impact is clear!

    Utah’s Jay Hill was named HC for Weber State this month. And John Baxter at USC released his book this year titled “I Hate School” that helps coaches motivate young people. Sark didn’t keep Baxter, but the school is likely moving him into a classroom to continue to teach and work with student – what a nice recognition!

    • GoBeavs82 says:
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      sorry the tables don’t copy in very well.

    • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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      Comeon, man, we all know Riley isnt looking to win, just to get the game played. So he doesnt need to scheme anything, and probably doesnt want to hear of such from assistants.

      Get the games played, the paychecks roll in, and when he retires he becomes an OSU icon, remembered and honored forever. He is already honored by announcers, who always speak of him as a great coach.

      • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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        He’s called a great coach by WAY more people than just announcers.

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          …yeah, BECAUSE announcers say it 47 times per game. Casual fans just regurgitate what they hear the night before on tv during the game and think it’s gospel.
          They also say Riley is the most respected coach in the nation by his peers all, of course he is! They all wonder how the hell he keeps his job.

          • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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            Casual fans, intense fans, and coaches all say it. Sorry, but it’s true.

        • mckalk says:
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          I think his wife has called him a great coach and probably the postman as Riley passes by him on his bike on the way to afternoon practices in the spring. Longevity and greatness often get confused.

          • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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            I don’t have an issue if people think Riley sucks, but let’s not be oblivious to others opinions of him at the same time.

    • mckalk says:
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      I would have accepted $20 an hour to tell Victor Bolden on kick-off returns to run as fast as he possibly could into the closest defender and fall down at the 19 yard line.

  • GoBeavs82 says:
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    asst coaches salaries come mostly from here:

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/salaries/ncaaf/assistant/?sf20544809=1

  • mb says:
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    “Michigan State built a 13-1 Rose Bowl champion with classes ranked in the 30’s or 40’s nationally”-Stewart Mandel.

  • mb says:
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    Before receiving increases last week, Michigan State coaching salaries ranked in the bottom three of the Big 10. Reward for achievement over a long period of success. Success earned rather than success purchased with financed debt. We know how that ended in 2007-2008.

    • mckalk says:
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      I don’t think there’s enough money in the world to adequately compensate the Sparty coaching staff for shutting up Urban Meyer!

  • WFO WFO says:
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    Crichton to the NFL

    http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=10239799&src=desktop

    Too lazy to check if it has already been posted.

    • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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      All year I was really looking forward to next season, then Lucy came along…..

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Next year the Beavs aren’t reloading, they’re rebuilding.

      Is there ANY defensive end threat next year? I’m predicting Riley goes long with a desperation scholarship heave to a JC DE who produces nothing in his “3 years to play 2.”

      I’m also betting Mannion goes next. What is the win cap next year, 4 games? Throw in the Riley coaching handicap, three games?

      And BDC wants to grow support for the next Reser upgrade? Who is going to travel to Corvallis to sit in the stands and watch a non-competitive team play 7 pm night games?

      This year’s team only run-blocked 2 games this year. They better plan on LOTS of running next year, and maybe lots of 3-4 D to get LBs on the field in the absence of any DE threats.

      • mckalk says:
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        I guess Riley’s main concern is if he can still get six wins out of a fairly easy schedule depending how much the P-12 bottom feeders improve next year.

    • helmsley says:
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      “I do not fear clichés, they often tell the best truths” anon, and in a very funny line somewhere, someone said “what’s wrong with clichés – “Shakespeare used them.” I am leading up to Scott Crichton declaring for the NFL. He could see the writing on the wall.

  • OneEyedKing says:
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    Because the difference between Vanderveen being a good QB and a bad one will be a few snaps he could have had in blowouts this year? I don’t even know who that kid is, sure he’s going to be a stud. Or would have, if only he’d have played 2 drives vs. Cal.

    Just watched his HS video again. Kid has no arm strength and a long, weird throwing motion. Superstar, if only he had experience!

    Worrying about a backup QB that wasn’t good enough to play, now, with Cooks and Crichton leaving, no OLine, and no running game, is like worrying about the 5th lock on the back door when the front door is wide open. And the burglar is inside killing you.

    • oneoldbeav says:
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      In most jobs the head guy is supposed to have the skill, energy, and staff to deal with more than one concern at a time.

    • angry angry says:
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      Vanderveen doesn’t look like a good QB, but that’s missing the point. It’s that Riley missed an opportunity and that oversight is now commonplace.

      • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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        It still burns that Vanderveen beat out Harrington, doesn’t it?

    • Mb says:
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      OLine will be better by subtraction. Andrews was always on the ground. The two tackles could not hold a block for more than one count. Why does everyone automatically think that juniors and seniors are better than underclassmen? The union mentality of seniority rather than merit is precisely the problem….more of a problem than money or number of stars per recruit. I would like to see Mannion back. But if he goes, this will be very good new as well. All qbs, including the incoming freshmen will all have the same level of experience and hopefully the same opportunity. If Vanderveen had played this year, all the other guys would be screwed with no chance to prove their worth. I think that many of you guys would like Beaver players to have 10 years in the system, with four years of gray shirt/red shirt.

  • GreatWhiteHunter says:
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    There is some ridiculously good football being played tonight. Really puts into perspective how far OSU is from the elite teams in the country.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Watching the defenses in the Rose Bowl the other night also made me think about how far away OSU is from something like competing in a Rose Bowl.

    • helmsley says:
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      How could anyone have given that comment a negative vote?Are there 2 moles in the Pollyanna corp?

      • helmsley says:
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        Hmm-I think that should’ve been FROM the Pollyanna corp who have infiltrated ab.

      • mckalk says:
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        Apparently, BDC’s wife comes in and let’s loose with the negative scores. Angry takes the high ground and turns the other cheek.

  • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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    I think the QB drama will not be in 2014 but in 2015 when Kline shows up. Curious to see how that plays out. If Mannion leaves this year Vanderveen better play great in 2014 because I can totally see another Riley QB drama when Kline shows up. If Mannion doesn’t leave, Vanderveen may never see the field in his stay at OSU. I’m in-Klined to believe it will be interesting.

    On a different note I have actually had an internal adjustment this year concerning college football and OSU. I have really come to realize that winning in college football is totally dependent on 3 factors… money (and the willingness to spend it), recruiting and coaching. It is like a 3-legged stool. You have to have all 3 to work.

    Yes some would argue that the main factor is money or location. But I see now that all 3 have to be in place and if they are they will feed on each other and grow. Especially in this TV driven college football day and age.

    USC will always be competitive as there has always been these 3 factors working together for years and years. I have come to realize that for OSU the football program is not as important to the school as it is to say USC. OSU will not, because of the lack of money and emphasis on must win to get our monies worth, get good coaching, which leads to poor recruiting, which leads to less money being generated from the sport… the stool may stay upright for a little while but it will fall without all three legs in place.

    So with that, I will always root for the Beavs to win, but unless there is real change in the leadership I will not hope or expect for the Beavs to be anything more then they already are, a middle to lower tier team amongst Pac-12 schools that have decided to have a stool with 3 legs.

    • angry angry says:
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      What about Kyle Kempt? He looks the best of the bunch to me.

      • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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        Me too. But again same scenario all the way around, just insert Kempt were it reads Vanderveen in this thread.

        • GOBeavs GOBeavs says:
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          Since Kempt was redshirting if Riley thinks Kempt is way better than VanderVeen then it’s the right call to just play Vaz in garbage time.

  • GOBeavs GOBeavs says:
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    Would be interesting to know what they looked like in practice this year. I’m guessing VanderVeen having 2 years to work on his arm strength/throwing motion would have big benefits. I would bet that he’s improved it a lot. Seems pointless to say which QB is better when all we’ve seen are 1-2 year old videos.

    Still, Mannion may return and all this talk will be moot. The lack of news makes me think he is waiting to see if other underclassmen stay or bolt to the NFL.

    I wonder if the Zach Kline news has any of our QBs wanting to transfer already. We also have two QBs coming in this year (Mitchell and McMaryion). Seems like way too many QBs.

    • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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      I thought Vanderveen looked good in the Spring scrimmage.

    • WFO WFO says:
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      Riley will fall in love with one of them and convert the others to benchwarming safeties.

  • helmsley says:
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    Anybody going to this? Is it an appropriate moment to talk about BDC etc.

    http://www.osualum.com/s/359/index.aspx?sid=359&gid=1&pgid=2959&cid=4426&ecid=4426&crid=0&calpgid=312&calcid=2104

  • helmsley says:
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    Anybody going to this?

    http://www.osualum.com/s/359/index.aspx?sid=359&gid=1&pgid=2959&cid=4426&ecid=4426&crid=0&calpgid=312&calcid=2104

    Is it an appropriate time to bring up BDC etc. or even an inappropriate time, all the better.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    Coach Rob took responsibility for Moreland being rusty. But the other players play is on them. Should it not be the other way around?
    Utah 80-69 win

    • Whiskey soaked napkins says:
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      What little of it I watched was pathetic. Same old same old. Too many turnovers, poor defense and Roberto was fucking brutal today. His ass needs to be riding the pine. But just as I predicted, an 0-2 start. Good job robaminson.

      • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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        Jack thumbs it down. Apparently I still don’t watch college basketball

        • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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          The thumbs down is probably from your idiotic “robaminson” comments.

          • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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            idiotic huh. Robaminson sucks. That you cannot deny

          • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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            I can deny that there’s a such thing as Robaminson.

        • Jack says:
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          I have never ever thumbed up or down any comment… ever. If I agree or disagree with someone’s comment or just find it humorous, I’m adult enough to speak my mind. If I don’t respond, then I’m not going to hide behind some silly, useless function. It just means I don’t care enough to respond.

  • GreatWhiteHunter says:
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    From the Oregonian:

    “These were a lot of self-inflicted wounds,” OSU coach Craig Robinson said. “We shot ourselves in the foot. You can’t play on the road in the league against anybody and not execute defensively.”

    For clarity, GreatWhiteHunter does NOT play for the Beavers…Pettibonehead’s prophecy not yet fulfilled.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    Boise St new coaches just flipped Texas A&M commit. All it takes are coaches who can recruit and are not afraid to compete.

  • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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    Mannion has made his decision. He is staying.

  • GoBeavs82 says:
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    Glad to hear Mannion is staying (per his own tweet). If he can be consistent against the top teams and clean up his stray passing, he’ll place better in the draft.

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