22.Jul.2012 It’s Official: We Will Never See the “Dealth Penalty” Again

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According to ESPN, Penn State will not get the Death Penalty.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8188629/penn-state-nittany-lions-not-facing-death-penalty-monday-ncaa-source-says

No amount of scholarship reductions or bowl bans will fit the crime and coverup. Washington's Mark Emmert (President) and Oregon State's Ed Ray (Chairman) have done the sport, fans, and victims a disservice by allowing that program to continue. 

If this incident doesn't receive the death penalty, then it's official, we'll never see it again. And we all know the reason is money. The NCAA has traded (what little remained of) its soul for dollars. You'd have to conclude from this that Oregon will either get off entirely, or receive a slap on the wrist.

This is a historic moment. We're witnessing the pinnacle of turning a blind eye. Precedent has been set: universities can get away with anything. Get ready for the ugliest era yet.

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  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    Whoa, there boss….

    First the NCAA hasnt ruled on it yet.

    Second, it is an illegal act, covered up by the university, but is that something the NCAA should give penalties for?

    Third….since its may be ruled as on the fringe of athletics, whatever comes down is not the end-all in sanctions. So them not getting the “death penalty” would not rule out it being invoked for something down the line.

    • angry angry says:
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      Second, it is an illegal act, covered up by the university, but is that something the NCAA should give penalties for?

      Yes. That is pretty much the definition of “lack of institutional control”

      Third….since its may be ruled as on the fringe of athletics

      I’m not sure what you mean.

      Crimes committed in the football facilities and then covered up by the entire football staff are fringe athletics?

      • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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        Lack of institutional control over what?? What ncaa rules were broken, that they should have known about? None.

        Fringe of athletics. The crime took place in U facilites but thats all. The ncaa is supposed to rule on violations of its regulations or rules. Not on criminal activity.

        • angry angry says:
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          Do you really believe they need a (written) rule telling coaches not to rape little kids in the shower? Some things are implied…

          Anyway, I think they will get hit with lack of institutional control. This is so much worse than players being paid or kids getting tattoos, yet it sounds like they’re going to get the same punishment (scholie reduction, bowl bans, etc).

          • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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            I agree that it is a heinous offense, but not covered in ncaa rules. Implied? Like in a witch hunt? You have to be careful, because the school can get lawyers and shove it up your ass if you hand down something not in your charter or org rules. Then you might end up with them getting away with it.

            Players getting paid violates ncaa rules. Raping kids in the shower doesnt, so far as I have heard. But it is against the law, so let the courts handle it. Let the victims sue Penn State out of existence.

          • osbeavs says:
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            Is the hiding of federal crimes not an unfair advantage? Did they not maintain reputation, funding and influence because they hid the crimes of Sandusky? Tenuous as that argument may sound, isn’t it enough?

          • Jack says:
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            BINGO!

            What happened at Penn State makes me want to forget that we lost to them one fall. I’ll keep the loss. I’ll own the loss. I want to forget that our players ever stepped foot on that campus or in that facility.

            What happened there was really really bad.

            What happened after what happened there was stupid piled on top of criminal.

            What happened after what happened after what happened should never have been a topic of discussion, and making it so is a fallacy.

    • Brady says:
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      Nothing says “lack of institutional control” in the history of college sports more then this

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    Read the article. A lawyer toward the end speaks to this not being normal NCAA business, and thus might be seen as a questionable process. Not the normal ncaa rules violation, so it is not being done in their normal routine of investigation.

    This was a crime that took place in the athletic dept facilities, and covered up presumably because it would make the U look bad. But it is not an ncaa violation.

    The lawyer is basically saying that whatever sanctions it brings down, they may get shoved up the ncaa ass in court.

  • slamadam says:
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    by not giving penn state the death penalty the NCAA essentially is saying in my eyes that paying players for a competitive advantage is worse than a decade long conspiracy to protect a child molester. this is cowardly. the worst part is that nobody has to justify whatever punishment is given.

    • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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      I am not condoning pedofilia, just asking for due process. The NCAA has no real jurisdiction here. There is no violation of their rules. And they are imposing sanctions (apparently) without out any normal ncaa process. There apparently is no appeals process, for instance.

      • osbeavs says:
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        In these unusual circumstances they are using the Freeh report as their investigatory report. Not part of their normal process but is it fair to call the NCAA process a true due process?

        • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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          For violations of NCAA rules, their due process is set out. For example, there is an appeals process when sanctions are handed down. Member institutions seem assured of that due process.

          The sanctions just handed down, were not done in any ncaa due process. There is no appeal, apparently.

          Once you venture outside due process, member rights are out the window. As a citizen of this country, this is an important consideration. The following of due process in any punitive action is the only way one has any rights.

          • Jack says:
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            Huh?

            PSU isn’t going to appeal this ruling. Get your head out of the clouds.

          • Jack says:
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            And you’re just wrong about due process and liability. I don’t know what world you live in.

          • slamadam says:
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            as i understand it penn state waived their right to due process anyway.

          • angry angry says:
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            Due process doesn’t even exist as part of the NCAA structure. They aren’t a legal body. Are you talking about an investigation? They felt comfortable with the one that was already conducted. There was a court hearing–the guy was guilty. There isn’t any grey area in terms of what happened.

            I will give you that they didn’t directly violate any bylaws, but they did so indirectly. E.g. Having Paterno an extra 30 years was an advantage. You can make dozens of other similar deductions.

            Also, this was unprecedented and not something you can expect anyone to write into a rule book. Do you need a rule saying the staff shouldn’t murder people, too, or is it implied that if they do murder people on campus and cover it up there will be repercussions? I’d argue the latter!

  • StarcraftSquall says:
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    This is not a post defending them, but do keep in mind if they hit Penn State with the death penalty, the rest of the Big Ten also pays the price in scheduling as well, and it’s really too late in the year for everyone who has the Nittany Lions on their schedule to find suitable replacements. Does this excuse it? No. But the NCAA does need to keep in mind how everyone else who deals with Penn State would be adversely affected before handing down a death penalty ruling.

    • osbeavs says:
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      Why not allow the Big Ten to schedule lower division squads without it counting against them. For instance, if they already had a game scheduled against an FCS opponent, they would be allowed to schedule a second one. Additionally that second FCS opponent would be allowed to count in bowl calculations. In a pinch, Big Ten schools could even schedule a division II school.

      • StarcraftSquall says:
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        There is logic in that, except for the fact that the lower division squads have also finalized their schedules at this time. There would simply not be enough to go around for an entire conference.

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    I agree with Shad’s opinion in that Ped St could be hurt more by severe bowl bans and schollie limits.

  • angry angry says:
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    I think shutting down the program for 30+ years (or however long the crimes were taking place and being covered up) would be a good start. Possibly shut it down forever.

    I really don’t see how a few years of bowl bans fits the crime. And I don’t see how this is tantamount to the Ohio St case, but it looks like the punishment won’t be much different. The NCAA is going to hear an earful of backlash tomorrow. At a time when they needed to rule with an iron fist and clean this sport up, they’re putting their tails between their legs and curling in a Riley-esque fetal position. Not surprising since an OSU guy is high up.

    • Jack says:
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      Meh!

      i think we’re talking the same difference between life imprisonment and capital punishment.

      I will always argue for life over state sponsored murder. There really isn’t much t think about.

    • hellobeavers says:
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      I read an interesting article this morning that discussed the wider implications of a death penalty. There isn’t a whole lot going on economically in Pennsylvania – shutting down the football program would be devastating for State College and the surrounding communities.

      • Jack says:
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        It’s not about the town or economics. It’s about an institution preying on children. You can make an argument that all those factors were the reason they acted criminally in the first place. Motives are nice excuses as well. But, in the end, the very culture created by these motives is what needs to be smashed against the rocks.

        I am so absolutely angry and disgusted with this situation. I was extremely heated when Phil Knight gave his eulogy for Joe Pa. If I could have done so, I would have marched up to the dais and slapped Knight silly for that speech… AT THAT TIME. Since the Freeh report came out, you can only imagine how absolutely PISSED I AM at anyone who gave consent to these crimes in any way. Self-righteous hypocrites like Knight should never have been allowed to rub salt in the wounds. I understand Joe Pa’s family trying their best to defend his lack of honor through their denial. It’s a family thing, and they are also victims of his dishonor. But those who rushed to ally themselves with Joe Pa’s crimes need to publicly wallow in their own filth… and apologize to the world.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    I don’t know if the “death penalty” was much an option, since that is usually reserved for second offenders. However, if there ever was a case that would use it without the second offense it would me this time, and you could probably make a case that it repeatedly violated rules. Anyhow, the “death penalty” probably not an option.

    Now I will reserve judgement until tomorrow when it is announced, but if they reduce scholarships by a large amount (20) and impose a ten year bowl ban I could see it really hurting the program.

    Who cares that it hurts the rest of the B1G and their teams scheduling games against them, University needs to realize their actions can effect more than themselves. If they really wanted to make a point the schools in the B1G would ban together and cut PSU out of the league. That would hurt more than anything.

  • gobeavers92 says:
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    This is not a “lack of institutional control”, it is an example of COMPLETE institutional control. The university, president, AD, and head football coach were all involved in the enabling of a child predator and coverup. I personally believe the NCAA has should have no part in this. The State of Pennsylvania and the Feds should be the ones that give the Penn St football program (maybe even the entire athletic dept) the “Death Penalty” for at least 10 years minimum.

  • matt b says:
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    Please read Ray Ratto and Pat Forde. Shutting down the program does nothing for the victims. It just plays to our need for drama and would be a symbolic, cynical marketing ploy. Did the death penalty kill under the table payments in college football? Focus on the victims. Everything else is bs.

    • angry angry says:
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      Yeah, you’re right, the University isn’t to blame and should probably get off scott free.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    To say it isn’t a football issue seems silly to me. Penn State covered up because they knew it’d impact the program then, just as it’s going to now (loss of schollies, bowl bans, negative public relations). They deliberately chose to priortize risking the reputation of the athletic department and football program over the reputation of the offendor.

    The school and its football program are SO FAR out of touch, the football program deserves a multi-year hiatus so everybody get get grounded in reality again. Take down the damn statue, and put the football program on a 10-year hiatus at least. Or, as someone else said, as long as they covered it up.

    If the NCAA doesn’t do it, then the state or school should.

  • SalemBeav says:
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    I think the NCAA charter extends farther than the locker rooms. Just like players are accountable to team rules on and off the field so are programs. I think the NCAA would require of each member school, their rules and remedies. Penn State must have something in place that they ignored. They would have measures in place if some of the football team went out and gang raped a girl. There are also notification laws that had to be ignored. Institutional control was out the window. The state will prosecute those involved, but it would be a political death sentence if anyone in the state leveraged sanctions against the program. For the sake of the NCAA they need to distance themselves from this and not look complicit.

  • angry angry says:
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    They got hit pretty good, but the NCAA needed to shut down that program for a few years.

    Beavs @ PSU never happened, one game closer to .500! Now if Oregon has to vacate wins Riley’s career record will look respectable!

    • hellobeavers says:
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      I honestly wasn’t expecting such severe sanctions. Loss of 20 scholarships per year and the ability for current and incoming players to transfer without penalty – that program is gutted.

      I wonder if we can pick up any of their players. Maybe get a DT, a RB or some O-line help.

      • helmsley says:
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        I wonder if Riley will even try.

        • CVO beav says:
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          Sure rack up a NCAA violation. Players can contact other universities but schools can’t start flooding PSU with recruiters.

          • helmsley says:
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            According to this: http://www.sportsgrid.com/ncaa-football/penn-state-transfer-rules/

            “Permission to contact rules have been suspended.”

            I still wonder if Riley would try, assuming there’s someone on the team of interest to OSU. It would just be too audacious.

          • CVO beav says:
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            The way I read the NCAA.org site, those rules apply to the player, not other schools. All the player has to do is announce he is looking at another program to be released. Inbound players letters of intent are void and perhaps those are the ones OSU can contact.

    • Fightingbeaver says:
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      I believe that Oregon will get a slap on the wrist, nothing more. The proof of their violations have been in plain sight for some time and it is taking too long for NCAA to make its ruling.

      As far as Riley’s respectability, it is earned on the field not from taking games off a tally sheet.

      I can see that some have graduated from “armchair quarterbacks” to “armchair lawyers”. I can’t wait until I see discussion on losing football games again. At least it’s football related.

      • Jack says:
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        A slap on the wrist for Nikegon would be six ships per year for three years, a three year post-season ban and a five year “show cause” for Campbell. So I agree. They will probably get a slap on the wrist. It will probably be less than my hypothetical, and Nikegon fans will still whine and bitch (as if they don’t already) about being victims from some tinfoil conspiracy against Duck High.

        I am so absolutely sick of hearing about Nikegon crapping on their academics for the sake of their athletic programs. They are still a decent academic institution, but they lag so far behind the rest of the Pac 12 schools that they’re almost a WAC school now. And I have to sit here in this state and accept that they are an academic anchor representing this state. For all of OSU’s faults on the athletic side, at least they’re carrying their academic weight in this conference… even advancing thought. Nikegon can’t say the same.

      • bone says:
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        Yeah I don’t see Oregon getting much more than a slap on the wrist either. This is just a dark day for college athletics, there are no winners in this whole deal. Just a dark dark day.

    • CVO beav says:
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      Doesn’t work that way. PSU loses the W, but OSU doesn’t lose the L. Wierd but…..

  • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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    I guess it depends on who you ask and what web page you’re on, but I think the general consensus is that the punishment is adequate. Saying we’ll never see the death penalty again is a little dramatic, and I figured Riley would come into play somewhere in this thread.

    • WFO WFO says:
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      I’m 100% sure that nothing like this would ever happen on a Mike Riley coaching staff.

      Happy?

  • sparkyd73 says:
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    So, where does the NCAA’s authority end? I understand that this was a high profile case and that the crime is considered the worst of the worst because it is against children, but where do you draw the line?

    Don’t get me wrong, I think Sandusky should be castrated in the town square. I also think that the administration of the University should be investigated for criminal and ethical violations and prosecuted or fired as necessary. I think the victims should sue everyone involved in the civil courts and be awarded huge sums of money.

    But, is the NCAA going to get involved with any criminal act that takes place at a sporting facility? Is the line drawn at those that hit the major news networks? If, during a practice a coach decks another coach (a crime), but the program and the individuals involved do not involve the police, is this something that the NCAA should get involved in? A coach is drinking and driving on campus and crashes and the University covers it up, how many scholarships is that? Would it make sense to punish the students of the University or players or even the alumni for this? To me, the answer is NO, punish the people involved. Fire the people, lock them up if there was a crime that deserves it, but the NCAA should stay out.

    • Jack says:
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      This is kind of the point. Sandusky should have been castrated in front of Joe Pa’s statue… on gameday… so everyone could see it. The cover up was simply an OK for Sandusky to continue his crimes.

      I give no quarter for crimes against children. You’re either vehemently against these crimes, or you sanction them. There is no in-between. PSU chose to sanction them. And they chose to do so to protect their football program first and their school second. In the end, the truth wins. But the victims who exist BECAUSE of the cover up can never NOT be victims again.

      I feel bad for the players at PSU also. They bacame victims when Joe Pa and Spanier decided to make them so. It was never their informed choice. It was all a lie which has finally grown into what lies always become–a monster.

      • Jack says:
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        You know… I’ve never hit a thumb rating, and I’m not going to start now. But I’m in a mood, and whoever thumbed down this comment is a coward who just thumbed up pedophilia. It’s not funny. It’s not even remotely happy. PSU should not be associated with the NCAA anymore for their institutional actions. That they are makes me more angry than normal.

  • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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    Oregon state just had to vacate a quality loss due to the ruling. its a great day to be a Beaver?

  • CraigBeav says:
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    Eh, they’re punishing a bunch of kids and fans for something that a dead dude and some other jail-bound old dudes did. The sooner universities realize that they don’t need the NCAA, the better.

  • matt b says:
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    News just in. NCAA requires Colonists to vacate win over England in Revolutionary War. From now on there will be an asterisk in the record book.

    • Jack says:
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      Yeah… pedophilia is funny.

      I know you probably think NCAA sanctions and this case are separate entities which should be compartmentalized. But they’re not. I’m really surprised that the NCAA didn’t just kick PSU’s sorry ass out of the NCAA. But who would have them? If I’m the NAIA, I wouldn’t touch that program. They deserve to be lost in the wilderness and forgotten. They’re getting off light in my book.

      • CraigBeav says:
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        Really Jack? I’m kind of surprised you’re taking that stance on this issue. How does punishing the players and the fans accomplish anything? The people responsible are either dead, or disgraced and on their way to jail (the worst offender of which will never again see the light of day). This was a violation of law, and the law system is handling it. Just feels to me like the NCAA and Big-10 are jealous of their usual power being usurped by the real authorities, and are getting their licks in on the side against the kids on the team.

        • Jack says:
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          Right… so if my kid does something stupid and gets himself expelled or something like that, then I as a parent should just pat him on the head and tell him the authorities have made their decision. There’s nothing left for me to do since punishment has already been meted.

          Right?

          In the end, this is a slap on the wrist. And the fans and players who are being “punished” are not being punished by the NCAA. They are being punished by the lies their own institution foisted on them. They are being punished by actual crimes committed by a culture they bought into. They can sit there in disbelief and a bunker mentality and pretend they’re victims. Or they can stand up and make themselves heard with positive actions.

          • CraigBeav says:
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            Your metaphor (analogy?) at the top breaks down though when you see that they’re not just punishing the ‘kid’ who did the wrong (Sandusky, Paterno, Spanier, Cook, etc.), but also everybody they’ve ever met. It’s like saying that you caught your kid stealing a candy bar, so you’re going to go in and kill his classroom’s pet turtle.

            By all means, let the NCAA ban each of those horrible people for life from ever again being affiliated with a member institution. But don’t be glib and say that the fans and players were condoning that behavior when they knew nothing about it.

          • Jack says:
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            They’ve known about it for a while now, and they chose to circle the wagons and chant “We are Penn State” instead of ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING RIGHT AND GOOD.

            It’s not like your false analogy at all. It’s punishing the one good kid in the group who was caught doing whatever because I told my kid he can’t hang out with any of them ever again. I take away one possible good relationship because X amount of bad relationships within the same sample led my kid to be a dunderhead. I believe that good relationship will win out in the end. The antidote to lies is just the simple truth.

          • mckalk says:
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            God, I’m still seeing that “We Are Penn St. on a lot of forums. It may take nuking State College to make a point here.

          • sparkyd73 says:
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            This is a great example that highlights where you and I disagree on this issue (and from your political posts – on many issues), Jack. Philosophically, you see the NCAA (and since I brought up politics – the government) as a parent figure, and I believe that this is not their job. To me, the NCAA is there to enforce fair play rules with respect to recruiting and player eligibility. The legal system is in place for punishing criminal acts and I think that is the right way to handle it. The PSU’s board of trustee’s are responsible to fire anyone that doesn’t get released due to the legal process (they did commission the Freeh report). And ultimately, the alumni, the citizens of Pennsylvania and the governor are responsible to govern the Board of Trustees if they do not do their job.

            So, we fully agree that Sandusky is the scum of the earth and I’m quite confident that we also agree that anyone that didn’t step in to stop it should also be held accountable for allowing it to continue. Where we disagree is WHO should be holding people accountable. What value is there in taking scholarships away from a dead coach and a bunch of other people that no longer have a relationship with the university? In your scenario above, this is the equivalent of imposing a punishment on a younger sibling for something that your older kid does.

          • Jack says:
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            Except for your last two sentences, you’re on target. You fail to lay the blame on the entity responsible. The very culture at PSU created an environment where more victims of extremely heinous crimes were repeated. That culture is deserving of punishment. It is everything in this case. This is not a personal action. It’s a crime against humanity.

            The NCAA is responsible for the NCAA. When PSU wants to not be a part of the NCAA, then they can choose that path. It’s all on them, not the NCAA. The “younger sibling” argument doesn’t hold up. That would be the NCAA punishing Indiana for PSU’s crimes. PSU did this. PSU is taking their lumps. The NCAA (unlike the corporate-owned US government) is on target with this one. I just think they didn’t do quite enough.

          • sparkyd73 says:
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            I’m sure we will just need to agree to disagree on this one because I still say the responsible organization for changing that culture is the Board of Trustees and the legal system and not the organization that is created to police eligibility. If legal and civil penalties are not enough incentive to keep people from stopping these heinous crimes, do you really think that the loss of 20 scholarships a year or even the program death penalty – after I get fired would make much of a difference?

            BTW, I enjoy the discourse, good to hear the other side of the argument to test your own beliefs.

          • Jack says:
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            Idk… it makes me want to corporatize myself. If I do something illegal, then all I have to do is fire myself. The corporation could then go on as if everything was hunky dory. Hell, I could even protect myself after being fired because I could claim “trade secrets” in order to cover up my crimes.

            I think I’m on to something here.

          • sparkyd73 says:
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            Nope, still not hearing my argument. I don’t think anyone that committed any crime should be let off in this. Quite the contrary, I think they should be legally penallized to the full extent of the law. And those that didn’t commit a prosecutable crime but helped in any way to cover this up should be seperated from the University.

            My argument is simply that the NCAA’s nose does not belong here. For those of you saying that all PSU would have to do is choose to not be part, c’mon – that is just silly. There is one option to be involved in college sports. That is akin to saying that I should move out of this country because I don’t want to pay a new tax.

          • Jack says:
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            Nope. If you want the NCAA to not be involved, then PSU needs to not be a part of the NCAA. If they are, the NCAA is involved.

            It’s pretty simple.

            If you want to move to Switzerland to avoid paying income taxes, fine. But you need to be a wealthy felon in order to do that. They don’t take just any kind of felon. PSU is suffering as an institution exactly what they knew they would suffer. They chose this path instead of making it right 14 years ago. They are doing right by continuing to act in cooperation with every single authority, legal and voluntary, in order to clean up the mess they created. But just because they’re some entity consisting of individuals does not mean they are an entity devoid of consequences for the actions of the individuals within it. They have a long road to haul, and they are sounding correct in their statements about wanting to do so. There is penance to be paid as an institution beyond the legal wranglings of the individuals who acted under the protection of the institution. This is true in corporate life as well, but our government protects the institutions before the individual rights of our citizens because they suppose the effect of punishment against a corporation would be more egregious than the crimes committed. Big (Pharma/Oil/whatever) gets a pass when they literally kill our citizens because they have money and make money and employ people. That’s simply not right.

            You might as well bail out banks who act illegally (under former laws) and immorally.

            Oops!

          • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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            Yep

            Its pretty simple

            The ncaa should take care of violations of its rules,. for which it has due process. Let the civil and criminal courts take care of criminal behavior and civil liability.

          • orangejulius orangejulius says:
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            While I might tend to agree with your ‘who should parent’ approach, in this case I think it can be argued, if PSU agrees to be in the NCAA family, they agree to NCAA punishments.

            Couple of things that came from statements on the ruling…

            “Emmert had warned Penn State last fall that the NCAA would be examining the “exercise of institutional control” within the athletic department, and said it was clear that “deceitful and dishonest behavior” could be considered a violation of ethics rules.”

            “Emmert said (in the statement about todays’s ruling). “As the individuals charged with governing college sports, we have a responsibility to act. These events should serve as a call to every single school and athletics department to take an honest look at its campus environment and eradicate the ‘sports are king’ mindset that can so dramatically cloud the judgment of educators.”

            Hard to argue from the Freeh report that there were no ethics violations and clearly within the purview of the NCAA.

            Finally, PSU had opportunity to appeal and choose to sign the agreement. A no win I suppose as they look like pedo-supporters if they refuse, but they know they were wrong. PSU intentionally hid, and allowed Sandusky, and his actions, to continue, specifically to protect their football program.

          • Jack says:
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            Well said.

            I’m st

          • Jack says:
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            Well said.

            I’m still extremely angry about this situation. I can’t imagine if this would happen at OSU. I would probably forget about OSU and being a fan of college sports for a long time if anything like this happened in Corvallis. And I don’t say that lightly. No joke… I would become a Duck fan if OSU ever decided to hire Bobby Petrino. I would be a vocal critic of any institution which hired that louse, and I would find my vehicle in being a fan of their most heated rival. I do not carry that sentiment to this case. I would be extremely disillusioned in my sports/school loyalties. I might go so far as to take OSU off my resume… probably not… maybe… this is that bad.

      • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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        Careful with your choice of words there Jack, the FBI might take your first sentence out of context.

        • Jack says:
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          It’s OK… I was wearing a dress and ordering illegal wire-taps against “colored people”… justifying my actions by calling them Commies.

          So it’s all good.

      • matt b says:
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        No, I am just against linear thinking. I am a big sustainability guy so I see almost everything in terms of how you can make things right and how to fix things to make them work in the future. First off, the crime was against several individuals, not the rest of us blowhards. The NCAA can make things right by diverting existing and future revenues from PSU to the individuals and to nonprofits involved in preventing child abuse… not by sending $60 million to the NCAA. But the dirty little secret is that you need to have future revenues to even begin to make things right. You also need to get rid of everyone involved in the coverup including the PSU attorney who has been allowed to skate until now. I do not want to digress but some time I will tell you a story about murder, torture, and corruption under the Pinochet (pronounced with a hard t at the end) government and the resulting justice and redemption of a society. They key in this PSU case is justice not revenge. I do not claim to know what form justice will take in this case but I do know what revenge looks like.

        • Jack says:
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          I think I know what you’re saying. But I think this is justice, not revenge or redemption. Nothing can be done for the innocence which was “disappeared” at PSU. Those crimes seeded discontent in a population… at the very least. Those victims which should never have been victims have to live in a world with you and me. The crimes committed against them eventually carry over to us. Sometimes they can be very public displays of destruction. I won’t pretend to know their pain or understand their suffering. But I also won’t pretend that that pain and suffering doesn’t affect me in some way.

          And I also agree with not knowing the proper measure of justice in this case. But my gut says that PSU got off light.

  • Jack says:
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    Now I have to wonder….

    When the PSU board acted so quickly to dismiss Joe Pa, did they know something? I mean, was that simply a CYA action which was too little, too late?

  • Jack says:
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    Look… I understand fans and supporters of PSU as an institution wanting this to go away. Many good people have paid that school thousands of dollars in an investment in their own futures… their very livelihoods. But people have lost their religion over this same subject. Stalling these penalties was all on the institution itself. If Joe Pa had the balls to come forward with everything when it was all apparent, then there are no penalties now… or even then. Yes, maybe PSU takes a hit and Joe Pa loses his job. But they chose to act as an institution in a cover up, essentially kicking the can down the road. These penalties are derived from the school’s actions only… built on a culture which many have pointed to as essential for a town and region. These crimes, and the crimes committed in order to hide those crimes, are solely the responsibility of the school. They brought it on themselves, and they are acting properly in not fighting the consequences.

    It’s similar to Mike Parker eating a napkin. Anyone who wants to demonize the kids who made the video is a fool. There is no video if there’s nobody eating a napkin. People need to own their actions, or there is no moving forward. What doesn’t kill you… and all those other cliches. Only this case is systemic, not personal.

    • sparkyd73 says:
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      How is this in any way similar to Mike Parker eating a napkin? I am glad this got exposed and that justice is coming to those involved. Mike Parker took his natural consequences that came with this. He was the butt of many jokes and his credibility and reputation took a major hit. But for this to be a similar situation – the National Association of Sports Announcers (I’m sure there is something like that) would have come after him to pay a $20,000 fine and forfeit his Oregon Broadcaster of the Year title for 2011.

      • Jack says:
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        It’s simply a matter of responsibility. I applaud Parker for making the proper noises of someone who is doing just that. I even applaud PSU’s admin for making the same noises in not fighting this decision. Responsibility is the end result of any action.

        Parker’s incident is not similar in the action itself. It is similar in the bunker mentality so-called supporters took immediately following the incident. What happened with Parker deserved a chuckle and a pat on the back from those of us who have done the same or worse. It will get better for him because he can recognize his own weaknesses and act on that knowledge. Those who wanted to sweep it under the rug for some misguided loyalty to the man or his public image simply made the situation worse. They didn’t allow him or his public persona to own the situation. They stole a very important healing tool from the man. He is who he is. He is not who others joke about or who others pretend to protect.

        The culture of Joe Pa and the PSU football program are the same. They allowed him to pretend to protect them by protecting a monster. They did not own their situation. They swept it under the rug, and now they have to clean up that mess as well as all the other garbage that accumulates during normal life. They chose at that time to punish their players and fans of a future date instead of being honest and mitigating the consequences at that time. They essentially chose to continue acting criminally, knowing they would punish themselves more at a later date.

        Now is the later date. It’s not some magical time warp the NCAA created. It’s just now.

        Parker’s fate is similar in that he owns his actions. He goes so far as to thank the kids who made that video because he knows how fragile his existence is. And that video helps him own his reality. I understand your resistance to the analogy on a per se basis. I was introducing it as something done right versus something done so terribly wrong. In no way did I mean to compare the two. I meant to contrast them, so I apologize for being initially unclear about that.

        I said it at the time of Parker’s video. What he owns he can understand and never relive. The same was true of PSU in 1998. They chose another more dire action, and now they get to own a more harsh reality.

        Btw… if you ever want to talk about US interventions in Latin and South America, I’m game. There’s a wealth of stupid our country has done… from United Fruit to supporting Nazi (literally) death squads in Brazil to assassinating “Commie” leaders who were democratically elected… to attacking a country with no defense in order to hide its banking policies and destroy its blackmail videos of US politicos on its well-known island of debauchery. But it’s probably best if you just read (if you haven’t already) John Perkins’ books from the horse’s mouth.

        • oneoldbeav says:
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          Btw….some balance may be gained from Max Boot’s “The Savage Wars of Peace”.

          • Jack says:
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            Nice… except the voice of the CFR doesn’t quite take the tinfoil hats off. His critique of Woods’ dumb analysis of welfare was misfired because of his political leanings. And I suspect he is just dumb because of profit.

            I could make millions… literally millions… if I decided to argue for the enemy. I am not kidding. I have been offered vast amounts to do so. I refuse on the base level. I can not degrade myself or my ideas for pay. I know the enemy better than the enemy knows themselves.

            It’s an ingratious relationship with the corporate powers that be, but at least I’m honest with myself.

            I know this sounds self-aggrandizing. But there is a reality beyond OSU sports. You guys only suffer the .6% of an Ivory Soap washing of my online existence.

          • Jack says:
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            Heh heh… thumbs down are a killer. I think I’ll have to stop posting because of them.

          • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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            For some reason I’m picturing a bald guy holding his shaved cat, biting his pinky and saying

            “One hundred…BILLION DOLLARS!”

          • Jack says:
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            I have three cats and one dog. And I cut my own hair (crew cut). Make of it what you will. I’m still relatively poor by choice. And I will not budge one inch in favor of profit gained by what I think is illicit action.

          • Jack says:
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            Besides that, travel requirements are stupid. We live in an electronic age. Why do I have to travel to DC to be on radio or TV?

          • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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            A lot of thumbs down, Jack. You’re taking a beating today.

          • Jack says:
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            All accepted!

          • Jack says:
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            If I’m the one taking a beating in place of some innocent, then I gladly take it.

            But there is a price to pay for that. I will hit back. And I’m no small potatoes. What you do is of your own accord. When you do it in front of me, and it’s wrong, I will call it it out… ALWAYS!

            You want to defend that?

            Fine… do so with your pathetic excuses and sorry excuses for life.

            DO IT !

            Until then, stfu!

    • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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      No relationship, PSU to Mike Parker. Terrible victims in the PSU coverup, none in Parkers case.

      Silly to even speak of a relationship, and very unfair to Parker. Shame on ya

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    This stuff is too depressing to beat to death. So many victims, such callous disregard for basic humanity.

    We’re at the airport heading for London. Clear my head with some theater, pubs and two-three Olympic events.

    Catch you all when fall practice starts. Cheers JB

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Have a great time and a safe trip.

    • Jack says:
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      No kidding! Have fun man!

      • Kenny Beaver says:
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        Take your umbrella and enjoy women’s syncro swimming. I hear they can’t give those tickets away.

        • Jack says:
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          Wasn’t synchro swimming dropped? Or am I thinking of ribbon twirling?

        • helmsley says:
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          I think Michael Conforto’s mother won an Olympic gold medal in syncro swimming and, in one interview, he credited her for his competitiveness and his attitude. His dad played football at Penn State – interesting connections during this particular time when both the Olympics and Penn State are, well, in the news, one could say.

    • angry angry says:
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      I didn’t think you made enough money when coaching to travel this much in retirement. Did you get an under the table lifetime contract we don’t know about??

      • Jack says:
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        He was probably eligible for PERS. He gets more in retirement than he did as a coach.

        OT… without PERS, the four highest paid people in Oregon government last year were:
        1. Chip Kelly
        2. Mike Bellotti
        3. Ernie Kent
        4. Paul Westhead

        Something is wrong with that list… on a couple different levels.

        • Jack says:
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          If you’re wondering about Dana Altman, I think he’s scheduled to make more than Westhead this year… though I think bonuses might have put him there last year.

  • angry angry says:
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    Guys, high-ups in the University knew about it and not only didn’t report it, but they actively covered it up for like… 30 years!

    I don’t understand people defending the university/hating on the NCAA. This punishment is (relatively) harsh, but that program needed to be shut down for a long time. The idea that since a crime was committed the NCAA shouldn’t get involved is bogus on so many levels, but just think to how badly people wanted Oregon penalized for their drug issues. The FEDs can penalize individuals, but they don’t have the authority to penalize the football program. The NCAA did the right thing. If you want to nit-pick that they didn’t conduct their own investigation, fine, but they didn’t have to–the State did that work for them in this case.

    • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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      Thats your opinion. What “NEEDED” to happen is a matter of opinion.

      As to who knew, and who covered up, what do you actually KNOW? The NCAA didnt do an investigation, so internally, it actually knew nothing.

      The external criminal conviction was enough for the NCAA to make an example of Penn State, apparently for having embarassed the NCAA. Dirtied the ncaa image. There were no ncaa rules violations, and the ncaa followed no due process. It seems to have the power to do this, as the only recouse might be to drop out. So if the ruling sticks, I guess it will scare other members to police their programs better, and so less chance of such a thing happening down the line.

      Asking for due process, though, is NOT nitpicking. Due process is the foundation of a free society. Any part of that society going outside due process is scary. It might spread.

      • Jack says:
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        I wish I could make LSD for a living too..

        Wtf are you arguing?

        • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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          Who makes LSD for a living? What are you trying to say? How about just saying it?

          If you canc understand my comments, why do you post a reply?

          • Jack says:
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            You’re high! And you want the rest of us to take whatever you’re dosing. You have no real perspective in this. If you did, you would be disgusted with every word you write.

            This is absolutely disgusting. Every word printed which tries to make it otherwise is also disgusting.

          • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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            No, Jack, I am not high. I am very disappointed in such an accusation, coming from you, normally one of the best posters on here.

            I dont accuse you of being high, no matter how emotional and irrational you have become over this issue. I am not against PSU being punished, but one has to be careful one doesnt tread on the rights of others, when one gets emotional and irrational.

          • Jack says:
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            Rights?

            Really?

            Ummm… guffaw?

          • Jack says:
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            Btw… you should accuse me of being high. While I abstain from such action, I did at one time partake. And that reality was happier than the bar-happy world we sanction. Big Business gets what Big Business wants, and we suffer as a result.

          • WFO WFO says:
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            My back yard smells like sweet skunky weed most afternoons. My neighbor has a medical card and has big beefy plants growing in pots just behind my fence.

            If you want to partake it’s a doctor’s note away…just sayin.

          • Jack says:
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            Oooh! I would do the same if I didn’t have the unit I call “wife.”

            I’m partially serious. I think getting stoned would be a better reality than a six-pack every Friday. And I don’t say that lightly either. I loves me some good homebrews!

            I just know that pot affects my body in bad terms about 1% like alcohol does.

            I don’t understand the prison industry’s need to detain pot users. It just makes no sense… unless we all think our tax dollars are being paid to these jerks.

            Right… that will happen in my lifetime.

      • Jack says:
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        Blinders don’t even analogize your argument. You’re not even paying attention to this case. If you were, then you would be calling for the execution of anyone who knew about it.

      • Jack says:
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        BAH!

        Thus totally sucks!

        How can you not be completely angry about this?

        This is really really really really really really really really really bad.

      • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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        This will shock everyone, but I side with steve503 over Jack on his point of due process.
        I do however think that the ncaa using Freeh’s report as their investigation is adequate instead of them thinking they can do a more thorough job themselves.

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    LOL You are blinded by your hatred for PSU covering up pedofilia, and cant see any other considerations. I would give the death penalty (the real one) for any crimes against children.

    But that is not the point. And if you are posting on a forum with just anger, you can expect to not make much sense.

    I see this as a dangerous precident for the ncaa. I can imagine PSU suing the ncaa for overstepping its bounds. And AGAIN AND AGAIN…..I dont like violations of due process. Our freedoms in this country depend on such. Dont fuck with it.

    • Jack says:
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      You argue against yourself within the same comment. Nice… not.

      You want more than is realistic in this world. I can get behind that where what’s realistic isn’t reality. In this case, you lose this argument… BIG TIME. There’s just nothing but the axe left for everyone involved in this situation.

      And that’s a kind end. Due process was fucked when PSU decided to fuck it. We’re five years beyond that now. Get over it.

      • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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        This reply by Mr. Off should pretty much show everyone how silly he is.
        Just because you say it doesn’t make it so… BIG TIME.

        Come on Jack, you’re normal anger level is about a 7 when you roll out of bed, then it only goes up from there on a daily basis. You’re just a ball of hate! If hate were people, you’d be China. (I stole that one).
        Congratulations, you’re mad about the pedophilia situation at PSU. We all are. But here’s an idea, it’s Ok to have a discussion that involves differing opinions; and when one opinion doesn’t line up with yours it doesn’t mean the guy’s an idiot, or smokes LSD. Some of us see right through your arrogance but most people are sheep so they think that anything said loudly with confidence and conviction must be true. You have confidence in your posts but it doesn’t mean I agree with you.
        I’ve thumbs-downed you a million times. Mostly just to say “I disagree” without posting a response. I think it’s Ok to just read someone’s opinion and think, “Huh, I never thought of that” or “Wow that guy’s way off base” WITHOUT ACTUALLY POSTING IT EVERY SINGLE TIME!

        Now, reply to this with one of your canned responses like…
        * you don’t live in reality
        * you must be on drugs
        * I choose to be poor
        * I’m right, get over it
        * you lose this argument
        * what world do you live in?
        * you have no real perspective
        * Wtf are you arguing?

        Why some people get enjoyment out of creating hate and discontentment and putting others down I will never understand. Try living one day without criticizing someone Jack. In fact, I DARE you to find something positive in a post that you disagree with. Try making someone feel better.

        • Jack says:
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          Nah… I save the good stuff for real life. The online persona is the release. And only about half of that is contentious… say when sports, politics, crime or religion are involved. And when they all circle together into one topic, I see nothing but black and white.

          Other blog topics which are not contentious would include stuff like fishing, hiking, birding, camping, photography, gardening, food and drink, travel, music, TV, writing and reading. Those topics are closer to me in real life than the BS topics in the first group. But I suppose I could hate someone or something when they try to weaponize any topics in the second group as well. Although, I think that would be more silly than irritating.

        • Jack says:
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          Oh… and I don’t choose to be poor. I choose to be comparatively poor in a monetary sense in order to retain my soul and be rich in a family life here in Oregon. So I drive a Ford in Oregon instead of a BMW somewhere between Richmond and Baltimore. So what? Money and power are overrated.

          • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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            Yeah, money is overrated. Having the freedom to go and do what you please, when you please is overrated. So is diverting money into the countless charities that make a world of difference to children and those in need. Ask them if money is overrated.

          • Jack says:
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            Wow pot! What color did you say kettle is?

          • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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            LMAO! He doesn’t even know how stupid he looks, which makes it even funnier.
            Jack used to piss me off but this is just getting more entertaining by the post.
            Oh Jack, please say something funny again.

          • Jack says:
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            Poor guy. You whine about canned responses and personal negativity, yet you respond with a canned response to a poignant funny about your hypocrisy.

            You should be angered by what I say sometimes. That anger would be a glimmer of a soul.

          • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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            Continue…

          • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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            I am not always successful but I strive to not let others determine my happiness, especially posters on a forum. It’s obviously a personal ongoing battle for me.

            Regarding a soul, this just in… they don’t exist.

            You won’t do this because you can’t and you never have before but my asking always helps make my point about you; educate us Jack, tell us in easy to understand terms EXACTLY what in my previous 3 posts has lead you to state that you believe I have no soul and that I was hypocritical.
            Go ahead, baffle us with your bullshit. Oh wait, you just spew hatred which means you’re response will be another witty put-down.
            Spread love and truth Jack. If you’re not going to help humanity with your hard work then at least don’t tear it down. More love is never a bad thing, and people may not always want to hear the truth but they need to hear it, what we don’t need is attitudes like your negative ass.

          • Jack says:
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            Wow. You really care about this? I thought it was a game.

            Soul is metaphorical. It’s that point where you are able to let it all out with no fear or embarrassment. You do what is right for the sake of doing right. I’m not going to any imaginary afterlife, but that reality doesn’t make me not do right at every turn… with obvious limitations as a human (aka, nobody’s perfect). Having a soul is being true to yourself no matter what others think. The first time you lie to yourself, you have to either apologize or build on the lie to be who you say you are. Some are comfortable keeping themselves all pent up. Some are like me… gruff and vocal when I see something wrong. I’ve been on both ends of the spectrum, and I like not lying to myself or being afraid of what others think.

            And I guess that’s why I don’t care about this ancillary tit for tat. But I do giggle at the canned responses after you excoriate me for the same. That has to be worth at least a giggle on your end. It’s like you thought I was intentionally trying to draw you to what you call the dark side, then you say, “Oh to hell with it,” and just jump on in.

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            Your last sentence is as spot-on as ever. I did say it is an ongoing personal battle/problem for me.

            Secondly, note your tone in your last post. See how it’s just engaging even though you and I obviously disagree? It’s respectful and productive. THAT’S what furthers discussions and helps readers keep an open mind because they don’t fear they’re being attacked. You would probably say who cares if you’re attacked right? If you believe you are correct and aren’t lying to yourself and don’t care what others think of you then to hell with them right? Maybe. I guess. What I’m getting at is what’s wrong with offering your opposing viewpoint in a respectful way? With you it’s all or nothing, either you agree or the guy’s a complete idiot.

          • Jack says:
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            Not a complete idiot. Most of the time I want to know their AO, and just asking nicely doesn’t get it done. People come from different places than me and have different experiences. I was taught in one of my jobs that direct confrontation garners the most honest and cursory results when differences are apparent. Gauging tack with tact doesn’t work in a fog.

            Do I push too hard sometimes? Sure. But I assume the other someone has their big person pants on. I can’t imagine anyone has taken my online persona seriously enough to be personally offended. I don’t know of anyone on here who has done so to me. I either ignore, confront or play. But I never expect any of those actions to do anything productive online.

            I’m active in several other forums, and it’s kind of funny. Many of them require courtesy. But the political, religious or sport forums only ever mention courtesy as a, well, courtesy. They are by far the most deviant forums on the web. People would never know that Joe, the guy who gave them great advice on roses and tomatoes on the gardening forum the other day is the same as SlasherJ on the political economy blog who they see as a demon seed. Joe can come over for steaks and beers anytime. SlasherJ needs to be put in jail, or caned or whatever.

            That’s how I look at challenges from other posters. I figure they’re pretty much like me and would agree with me on 99.4% of what I believe if we were at a bbq. But once they start in on bashing the Beavs as a Duck fan, they know pretty quickly how that will play out because I explain in detail how it will play out. And it’s not awkward after that. Wear your swag. Make little bets. Rib here and there. Just don’t take it to the online level (those are pretty much the exact words of the mini speech) or I will take it to the online level. And then both our wives will be very angry with both of us.

          • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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            I see.

          • Jack says:
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            No you don’t!

            😉

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            😉

          • Jack says:
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            Now you’re no fun.

            I have to finish my un-wit with a blurb. Last night’s Relay for Life actually sucked the life out of me. My sleep is all out of whack.

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            Ok, let’s all acknowledge that Jack made a sacrifice for someone less fortunate than himself, though his heart is still reportedly two sizes too small.

          • Jack says:
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            Wait… you’ve never known anyone with cancer?

            Lucky you.

            Relay is like buying Girl Scout cookies. You just do it.

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            I just hand the girl scouts money, my toolshed doesn’t need another box of cookies.

            Seeing just one family member whither away from cancer is a lifetime supply; I, like most people, have seen more than I care to of that disease. I support assisted suicide.
            Speaking of, I highly recommend my client’s film “How to Die in Oregon.”

          • Jack says:
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            No kidding on the cookies.

            It looks like you can get it on Netflix and HBO on demand. Cool! It’s on my list.
            http://www.howtodieinoregon.com/

      • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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        Jack

        You can post such great statements at times, it is really sad to see you sink into stuff like this.thread contains.

        “where what’s realistic isnt reality.” ???

        In any case, I cant “lose the argument” for the simple reason I am not arguing. I am just stating my opinion that the ncaa is in uncharted waters, has gone beyond its normal due process and should stick to clear violations of its actual rules. You are free to have a contrary opinion, but combining the two opinions does not an argument make.

  • Jack says:
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    Heh heh… I’m going to start posting just to garner coward’s negative ratings.

    Do it coward! Thumb me down!

    Should I write “cowards'” instead of “coward’s?”

  • Rick says:
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    According to ESPN Radio today, the death penalty can only be imposed if that school is already on probation. You can argue that this is uncharted waters and those normal rules shouldn’t apply. However, the death blow is this: Twenty fewer scholarships per year, meaning that you’re going to have non-scholarship players on the field at any given time, effectively killing the competitiveness of the program. Also, 60 Large is going directly from Penn State to a victim’s fund. I think that should be an annual thing, but that’s not my call.

    Here’s what I’ve been wanting to know: I’m a school guy, and as such, I am REQUIRED to contact either DHS/Child Welfare or the local police if I believe that a child has been neglected or abused in anyway. Others in similar service professions work under the same law. Doesn’t this same legal requirement fall to professionals at the college level when they are working with minors? I would think yes. If that’s the case, anybody who had knowledge of it happening, but not contacting the appropriate authorities should be held legally culpable.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Canzano’s take:

    http://mobile.oregonlive.com/advorg/pm_29234/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=cmAQEDOe

    Is his perspective generally correct?

    • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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      I think he is often going for ratings, for controversy to gain attention.

      In an issue like this, the safest opinion to have is total outrage. Then you look good and on the side of the angels, so to speak.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    @beaverkman RT:@adamgorney #PennState running back Silas Redd to #USC? That would be interesting.

    Somebody above asked if we would be able to get some of these transfers. Not the good ones. Rich getting richer.

    • Kenny Beaver says:
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      It will be interesting to see if USC has scholarship room with a limit of 15 per year. They already have 16 commits listed on Rivals this year so who do they drop to take Redd?

  • Kenny Beaver says:
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    The NCAA is somewhat hypocritical when it, along with the BCS, creates mega-million payouts for 10 teams and then says everybody play fair. Then major bowls select the schools that travel the best and have marque names (Yes #12 Notre Dame with 2 losses and not #10 Boise State with 1 loss) to play in those games. The pressure is on traditional powerhouse schools to provide a great destination to their fans and boosters every year. So with 101,000 fans PSU looks the other way rather than do the right thing. I don’t blame the entire institution or their fans, but I do think that there are at least 6 administrators that should be held accountable and who should serve jail time.

    • angry angry says:
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      Fans, boosters, etc put those 6 administrators in charge and selected them to represent the university. Let this be a lesson in picking the wrong leaders…

      The NCAA is a mess, but this punishment is light considering what went on at PSU for 30 years. PSU is part of DI, and if I’m at any of the 119 other schools I don’t want to be associated with them…this is why I feel the program should be shut down.

      • Kenny Beaver says:
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        Angry
        If the fans and boosters can put the AD in charge at Penn State then why can’t the fans put somebody other than BDC in charge at OSU? We don’t have the power that you state in your post.
        The AD usually reports to the University President who is hired by the State Board of Education. Fans power is with their ticket revenue impact. If the fans did not know about this for all these years then they could not vote with their dollars. That is why I say it comes back to the ones who knew, the guilty six or so.

      • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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        I’m curious angry, about your support and admiration of other coaches who we can call more ‘ethically challenged’ that have been hired at other schools lately. You seem to think that OSU is being left behind regarding the football program, but when sanctions fall on these coaches, is OSU really left behind? See Chip Kelly as an example.

      • mckalk says:
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        Would making Penn St. play in the MAC be a close equivalent?

      • mckalk says:
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        The administration makes me sick, but JoePa was the true evil bastard, it was his program. Remember, they tried to suggest he leave about 10 years ago and he told them to f-off. He obviously felt pretty confident in his “control” of the program. Penn St. became a cult!

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    @beaverkman Here’s the lineup for tomorrow 2012 Pac-12 Football Media Day > Pac12 > News http://shar.es/tReQ9

    Riley, Wheaton, and Poyer will be on at 11:45am. You can stream it from the above website.
    Football is right around the corner! Hopefully, we surprise this year.

  • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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    It is no secret that the Beavers desperately need a big, run-stopping DT who could step in and play right away. As it happens, Penn State has some guys who appear to qualify:

    http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/hill_jordan00.html
    http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/terry_james00.html
    http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/jones_daquan00.html

    Might one or two of these guys want to leave Penn State and play for the Beavers this season? Probably not. But what the heck — isn’t it worth trying to find out? Landing any one of these guys could make a big difference this coming season for the Beavs, or so it seems to me.

    But I wonder whether Ed Ray (as well as Mike Riley) would be squeamish about going after anyone from Penn State at this point. What do you think?

    • ObjCritic says:
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      I’m sure they would all be upgrades and I’m sure none will come to Oregon State.

    • oneoldbeav says:
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      Squeamish? I don’t know about that but it sure is a possibility. I wonder if Ray would somehow feel it unethical or if he’d even push Riley one way or the other. For Ray I don’t think the nature of the violations at Penn St would be the factor here so much as the fact that he (Ray) was the face of authority in handing down the punishment. Should the judge benefit from the judgement?

      OTOH Ray could see it as providing an opportunity for a player to get into a better situation.

      The real question for me is, does Riley have the energy and interest to make a serious push for any one of these guys? Riley’s pattern of slow change and lack of pro-active behavior makes me doubt he’d actually consider a move like this. Hope he surprises me but it is sad to face the fact that it would, indeed, be a surprise…. to most fans.

      Btw, silver, really looking forward to some reports from the practice field next month; I always find your work informative. Thanks for your efforts!

      Oh yeah, Hasiak…..Hasiak………??

  • beavis24 says:
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    And I thought this was a forum with a critical view of OSU athletics. Silly me……instead, except for the last few posts, all I see is a bunch of sniveling drivel about Penn State and whether the penalties they received were severe enough. I think I will head to another site that at least stays on topic. Maybe I will come back in about a month when it is closer to the opener. Yawn…….

    • WFO WFO says:
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      I’ll call the whaaaaaaaaaambulance to come get you and take you to pure orange,Alice.

    • JD says:
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      Is this a joke? There is currently nothing happening with Beaver athletics besides facility construction and improvements. There are no games, practices or official workouts. The topic being discussed just happens to be the biggest scandal to ever happen to college sports.

    • orangejulius orangejulius says:
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      Thank you for YOUR insightful contribution to the discussion of Beaver athletics.

    • mckalk says:
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      Will you be taking Butthead with you?

  • presleydog says:
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    Ok yeah I admit I’m hopeful that there is a speedy conclusion to the Penn State deal so the NCAA can focus all its assets to the real evil – the U of O.

    How do guys think the proposed penalties for Penn State bode for the duckies? While I fully hate the ducks, I don’t want to see the death penalty for them just maybe a schollie reduction of about 40 for ten years and no bowl games for a couple decades. That seems about fair. With the death penalty there is no chance to kick their ass.

  • Jack says:
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    OSU on finally!

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    Riley on now
    http://www.youtube.com/pac12conf

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    Oh Boy! Mannion is the starter, BUT Vaz has shown the growth to win in this league. Sounds like the QB competition is not settled.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    Stan Hasiak “is working on final things to finalize his requirements”

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    Running Backs, wants 1800 yards from them or one, there are three to chose from plus one coming in the Fall that will help.

    • Jack says:
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      I was surprised he threw an actual number out there. It was nice to hear that he wants a running identity with an actual goal. It was also pretty cool how he just waved his hand about the passing game, like it was a given our offense would succeed in the air.

      Never talked about LB’s, O-line (except for the Hasiak question), TE’s, or interior D-line.

      • mckalk says:
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        Anyone can throw out numbers, let’s see where they end up in December!

    • Jack says:
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      Oh… and Wynn and Crichton increased their strength and speed numbers? Does anyone think those two will stay a full four playing seasons?

      • orangejulius orangejulius says:
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        Those two players are brighter parts of the program.

        As an optimist, I’ll say yes.

        As a realist, not so sure.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    Mannion: work ethic, desire with talent- he expects him to show growth as a leader.

    more efficient, not as many sacks, and poor throws.

  • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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    Nice job by pack 12 media to ask what riley thinks of Alabama and their current roll. Wtf?

    • Will Overhead says:
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      Nice job by ncaa_viOlation to a.) not hear the question was asked by the Pac-12 Digital reporter on behalf of someone who posted the question online because they were not there in person; and b.) not pay attention enough to know the question wasn’t about Alabama’s program, but about what MR brings from his time being a part of Bear’s program from when he was a player, to use as coach. A personal life lessons kind of insight.

      I’m no fan of the Pac per se, but I save my criticisms for legitimate things…

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    Oregon, like USC 8-9 years ago, has raised the bar in the league and in the state.

  • Grape says:
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    Dumb questions asked..

    • Will Overhead says:
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      Agreed. But, then, what were you expecting from carefully orchestrated and conducted dogs and ponies?

      • Grape says:
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        Maybe some of the fan asked question should of been tough, but then what do I expect from Pollyannas?

  • Jack says:
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    Why do I feel like Sarkisian would make a great used car salesman?

    • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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      LOL, likes the Hybrids! He is a car salesman….

  • Jack says:
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    Apparently there are going to be a large number of PSU players defecting in the next couple weeks. I can’t say I blame them. I think the expedited ruling on that situation was best when considering that the SA’s would become secondary victims of PSU’s actions if the process were to take months and expand into the season. I think it’s good that they get to choose their fate now instead of wasting their time worrying about what might happen later.

    • WFO WFO says:
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      Gotta wonder if OSU had offers out to any of the Ped State kids? It’ll be pretty difficult to establish a relationship at this point,but if any of them had offers/campus visits/etc it might not be too big of a stretch to pull some guys.

      • Jack says:
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        I don’t see OSU pulling any kids to Corvallis. I see the destination schools like UCLA and Florida State grabbing some of these kids, and I see some who will never transfer because they just don’t have D1 skills other coaches want. I also see some hanging tough throughout the sanctions because PSU was their destination (or dream school) to start. I applaud those kids for fighting through adversity to make a new start. There is another side beyond sanctions and forgiveness. It’s just hard right now to marry that idea with what was reality.

      • Kenny Beaver says:
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        Remember that Riley still needs room under the scholarship limit. He was over before he told a bunch to leave. I don’t know if he has any left.

      • mckalk says:
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        Only hope would be if they confuse the Beavs with another OSU program somewhat closer geographically.

  • oneoldbeav says:
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    http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2012/07/oregon_states_mike_riley_expec.html

    Riley, “…looking for that cycle of life to change back into good things.” Sheesh……the very definition of NOT pro-active!

    • mckalk says:
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      WTF???? Is he quoting Disney movies now? Oh wait, it was “Circle of Life” in Lion King, but close enough.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      No doubt. “We’ll just hope Chip Kelly takes an NFL job, and that USC loses it’s recruiting mojo, and that Utah doesn’t throw anymore DII QB’s at us…maybe then we’ll get back to a Las Vegas bowl and that’d be a neat deal….”

      Riley still feels that “freshness” everytime he comes in though and he’s “totally invigorated.” Christ, would hate to see him lacking vigor….

      Some questions I’d like to have heard:

      “You said you would do a complete, programmatic review of your football program this offseason to make changes and improve on the last two years. What were the results of that review, and what specifically are you changing?”

      “You’ve lost four straight civil wars, three by substantial margins. How much more patience for UO Civil War dominance do you anticipate receiving and how much do you think you deserve?”

      • ObjCritic says:
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        Oh, and a third question:

        “You tragically lost one of your most physically imposing defensive lineman in the offseason. Yet you chose not to pursue a DT from the JC ranks. How can you expect this unit to make up for that loss, and how are the team members doing as they continue to deal with that shocking loss?”

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Back to the Penn State issue and penalties, the Seattle Times weighs in and compares it to the handling of a similar issue in and the response by the Catholic Diocese of Spokane:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2018755558_guest24markmains.html

  • StarcraftSquall says:
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    Apparently, the death penalty for Penn State was avoided by a backdoor agreement:
    http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19656436/report-penn-state-faced-four-year-death-penalty

    • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      That is interesting. We’ll see what the trustees say… whether the President had the authority to agree to the sanctions. This might not be a done deal yet.
      It says they met yesterday (Wednesday), anyone have an update? The only thing I can find says that they met, but not what they decided.

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