18.Nov.2013 Bridging Expectations Between Old Guard and Young fans — Any Ideas?

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You have to wonder, what is the old guard protecting?

Bigger picture, how do we bridge the gap between old guard expectations and the modern era fanbase? Is there a way to do it amicably? Does the old guard raise expectations, or do the younger fans lower theirs’ (this is essentially what the old guard is asking we do, and personally, it makes me feel indignant and a bit disgusting to suggest, “you just need to lower expectations and everything will be okay”…).
The comment below is from O-live and sums up the old guard’s viewpoint. The sentiment is not dissimilar to a prisoner’s rationalization right before he’s about to take it in the ass.

“beaver84

1 Hour Ago

I am a 84 OSU Graduate. Most of the Riley doubters must be much younger than me and/or haven’t studied the history of Beaver football. Riley has built the Beavers into a nationally respected team from what used to be one of the laughing stocks of Div I football. WE were the team that everyone else used to use to pad their schedules. Now we represent a team that can play against pretty much anyone on any given night. Of course we have up and downs, but you must look at the reality of OSU before blaming Riley. HE and his style of coaching is why we get ANY decent players to commit to OSU. Even if Nick Saban came to OSU, I guarantee the results wouldn’t change much. OSU cannot compete against the big name schools in terms of recruiting, EVER. Other than a few good players from the state of Oregon, Riley and crew usually have to work with second tier talent that comes to OSU because they were not given scholarships by bigger name schools. Riley and staff have done a great job developing what they have to work with and have produced many NFL players. For example, do you think James Rodgers & subsequently Jaquizz would have even considered OSU if UT, A&M, Baylor, etc would have offered him scholarships? No way. OSU has a great reputation for the program due to Riley and that is why we can woo a some of these overlooked gems to “cowtown” Corvallis Even with such a handicap, we have kicked ass on some big name schools over the last 13 years AND have been to a lot of bowl games. OSU football is exciting to watch, and YES very nerve wracking when they blow opportunities to win. Riley works with what he has. He can run a balanced attack, we just don’t currently have a Simonton, Jackson, Bernard, or Rodgers for him to work with…or perhaps as talented or as big of an offensive line as in the past. Any way….if you want a scapegoat for the last three games, it should be Mannion. Great kid with lots of talent who has made a lot of mistakes the last three games against teams you need to play with minimal errors. He got banged up against Stanford and lost the touch. Very similar to Derick Anderson when the Beavs were 4-0 and let the nation in passing. DA got murdered by USC in game 5 and lost the next 4. Riley didn’t throw the interceptions agains Stanford…it was bad decisions by Mannion. The two in/near the end zone killed us. If we scored on those, we most likely would have won….and remember, Stanford was ranked like #6 in the county at the time. Same story against USC and ASU. If Mannion can erase his jitters and not hold the ball so long in the pocket when the rush breaks through, we can beat Washington. I know the coach is ultimately responsible, but if the program gets rid of Riley, don’t expect anything great to happen over the next decade.”

Even if the modern era fans are overly optimistic “dreamers”, I’d rather associate myself with them than that ^

A reason Ed Ray will never considering firing Bob D is all the backlash from the ’84 grad types. Until the majority of fans have a clear vision of what they want/demand, the AD will not, and we’ll toil in this tug of war (that is bordering on a fanbase Civil War).

 

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  • GreatWhiteHunter says:
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    I had just finished reading that before clicking over here. For crying out loud, we supposed to just accept that we’ve reached our pinnacle because we were so bad for so long? Such a pathetic view point. Our history does hold merit when considering where we are now. It is an improvement. But that improvement has stalled at best, more accurately we’ve slipped. I have never bought into the notion that you cannot recruit to Corvallis, or that Riley is the best that we can get. Defeatism defined.

    • angry angry says:
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      The other logical fallacy is that we should have been that bad to begin with. Historically, OSU was not horrible until the accusations of racism.

      http://angrybeavs.com/historical/2517

      And there were a lot of other changes, for example scholarship limits, that made the OSU job easier for anyone hired when Riley was.

      The 28 years should be views as an anomaly not the norm.

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      I agree GWH.
      To answer Angry, I think first we need to define our expectations versus the known (lower) expectations of the old guard you reference. I’m surprised that class of ’84 is considered old guard but there it is in black and white, plus I’m getting older too I suppose.
      Regardless, what are our expectations? If you had to clearly define what would it would take for you to be satisfied with OSU football what would it be? Would you define it in wins and losses, specific bowl game appearances/wins, final BCS rankings, improvements over the previous year?
      For me, a BCS bowl every 5 years is not an unrealistic goal. This means we win the Pac12 or are ranked in the top 10 BCS every 5 years.

      • GreatWhiteHunter says:
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        Did you make the ABT’s?

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          Last week I was a guest at an ASU tailgater so I didn’t do any cooking.
          But the Atomic Beaver Turds are on the menu for this weekend’s game in Corvallis.

        • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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          I made a test batch in my Cookshack smoker. Tasty. GWH, have you made any with just the bacon and cream cheese? Will be serving some Atomic Gopher Turds to some Bad(gers) this Saturday.
          Thanks for the info on these.

          • Jack says:
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            Again… there’s a name for smoked bacon-wrapped jalapenos stuffed with cream cheese. Those are what we people who eat food call jalapeno poppers. Cheddar or jack can be used instead of cream cheese. I also like chevre with chunks of mango, smoked turkey and cranberry wth cream cheese and pulled pork with apple. I’ve seen too many variations… and some were not good.

          • JD says:
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            I like to make mine with cream cheese, cheddar and a little cajun seasoning. Simple yet effective.

          • GreatWhiteHunter says:
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            Yep, just regular poppers. They’re good too. There is just something magical about adding a little nugget of processed meat in the middle though…

      • Jack says:
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        I’d extend it to eight or ten years between BCS level bowls with equal parts being in contention for them, being mediocre and sufferable losing seasons. I’d be happy, for example, with going to a Rose Bowl once every ten or so years and within those ten years going through the normal cycles of rebuilding and attrition.

        But most of all, I would like to see all parts of our team on the same page from day one of every season until it ends. I’m tired of this unit being unprepared while that one is flying high… or all units making dumb mistakes all at once.

        And I really question the wisdom in even having a ST coach on the college level. Never mind the facts that coach doesn’t recruit well, his teams are inconsistent and at times very poor… and all at the low low price of being one of the highest paid employees at OSU. I’m getting angry thinking about it now. Saying he gets paid too much for a position that shouldn’t exist on the college level is like trying to divide by zero.

        • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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          ST=strength and conditioning?

          • Jack says:
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            special teams

          • JD says:
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            I believe that only 3 Pac12 teams have a specific ST coach.

          • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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            Jack, that also drives me nuts. Our special teams are not special this year. More like Special Ed.

          • Jack says:
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            I remember way back when Ungerer was hired the O (?) said we were one of the very few college programs that had a ST coach. I guess I’ve always been bothered that we waste resources on something that others spend half the time doing. If it was worth it, then it would show in the stats. Instead we get terrible returns (if any), muffed punts, blocked FGs, backward punts, and I have to worry greatly every time the opposition lines up for an obvious onside kick… never mind the surprise plays where we always get burned.

            I remember 2009 and how Tui, James, Hardin and Poyer were all celebrated on ST. But punts and punt coverage were quite responsible for all of our conference losses that year. We couldn’t stop UA from returning lousy kicks back to almost our line of scrimmage. And I remember getting pinned within our own fie twice at the end of the game when we stopped them way back on their 30 and the game was still only a couple points. The punt return against us at USC put a game in which we were coming back out of reach by that difference alone. And I guess nothing really happened in the CW that year except a 10 yard (or so) punt early in the game. I do remember Nikegon starting beyond their 30 on most kickoffs. But that was before the placement was moved back to the 35.

          • Jack says:
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            I know Stanford brought one in when Shaw took over (not before). And that I know because the guy who took that job was with Tedford forever. Gotta love how it all turned out for Tedford. Maybe he could have used that extra coach over the years? Maybe Shaw could have used one instead of putting some kid with an eidetic memory in charge of things?

            Who’s the other school? I’ll bet it’s Wazzu. And knowing the Pirate, he probably has a title like Executive Director in Charge of Alternate Uses for Prolate Spheroids.

        • Numbers says:
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          Yes, Bruce Read was the Assistant I’d chose to axe. Replace him with a guy who has known strengths in the coaching staffs known weak areas. Simple concept.

          • whiskey soaked napkins says:
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            Read, Langsdorf, Cavanaugh and Banker bring shown the door would be a good start

  • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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    What do you all think about the Pirate? I’m not sold on him yet and I see Wazzu just extended him through 2018. Thoughts?

    • whiskey soaked napkins says:
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      I think Leach is the real deal and will get it done on the palouse. They’re already light years better in year 2. I also think they win at least one of the last two and go bowling for the first time in 10 years. Leach was getting it done in Lubbock until he got railroaded by Texas Tech and the James family. Adam James is lucky Leach was his coach. If I had to deal with his entitled attitude I would have found a dark pool to drown that little pussy in instead of a dark equipment shed. Don’t get me wrong, Leach is an odd duck. But he’s getting it done. Wazzu isn’t a program he was going to turn around overnight but they’ve made remarkable progress in less than 2 years. Anyone remember how bad WSU was just a few short years ago under Wulff? When they were getting blasted by 40+ almost every conference game. Nuf said.

      • helmsley says:
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        Leach said all the right things and took note of the upgrade in facilities. I think the cougs ran a fair amount against Arizona, mixing up the air raid. Leach is odd, but clever.

  • GreatWhiteHunter says:
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    OT – from Lindsay’s preview of the UW game:

    “Early prediction: The Beavers haven’t looked great lately, but it’s Senior Day in Reser Stadium, and that usually takes the energy level up a notch. Expect another good showing from the defense, and a good running game from OSU. Oregon State 28, Washington 21.”

    A good running game from OSU? Has she watched this team play this season?

  • JD says:
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    Thank you for building off of my comment from yesterday, I think the long quote probably caused a lot of people to just skip right past it.
    Changing the mindset of a large portion of our fan base feels like an impossible task but no meaningful change will occur within the Athletic Department until expectations can be raised. A good first step would be for expectations to be defined.

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      Hey I’m class of ’84.I demand an apology for the old remark! Cyber bully.
      You and Ritchie Incognito………two of a kind LOL..

  • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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    Another OT; The Biletnikoff award has a fan vote element this year. Cooks is a semi-finalist. If you get a chance head over and vote to help him out. Needs to be top 3, and deserves to be there.

    https://polldaddy.com/poll/7373923/

  • mckalk says:
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    It’s interesting to look at other schools who fired their coaches for long standing mediocrity or under achievement. Schools like Utah and Cincinnati made dramatic leaps by getting rid McBride and Minter, but they weren’t from “power” conferences and their time as BCS buster darlings did not last long. Southern Miss canned Jeff Bowers after 17 years and never a losing season. Larry Fedora kept it going, but he left and now they are one of the crappiest D-1 programs.

    I guess in the end I admire AD’s who won’t tolerate stagnation even if it can backfire. I also don’t fall for the “Saint Riley” crap, he left once when it was convenient for him. He’ll survive if he’s canned for being average.

  • FireBDCNow says:
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    My response to Jack thinking I may be a Pollyanna troll:

    Sorry Jack,

    Couldn’t be further from the truth for me. I am very anti-Pollyanna and nothing would make me happier than to see BDC fired or resign. I have enough time spent under the BDC regime to feel I have a good read on his serious limitations and just too much insistence on a stale status quo.

    I feel like a real good hire at AD could do more than anything else to help Oregon State. I can’t stand Riley;s lifetime contract but I be OK with a new AD evaluating him for 2-3 years without the buddy relationship Riley has with BDC and his assistants.

    Robinson despite some poor seasons could have made a good leap with either Cunningham staying or securing Jahii Carson. I am not big on whatifs but there is still reason for some hope that Robinson could get one more right recruit that would make a difference and have OSU basketball more fun again like we see in glimpses like last night. Maybe GP2 and Payton being around more can help. I am much less worried about his deal than Riley’s because there is a known end to it so long as BDC doesn’t get carried away again as he too often as when it comes to extensions.

    Riley is only an average at best coach and can be worse and may be trending that way so I really think OSU is not in a great spot going forward. His ability to land good classes will trend a bit lower IMO so there isn’t much to get excited about and there the civil war among the fanbase as far as him will likely continue to fester and grow worse if anything as he has already been here a very long time as it is.

    Bottom line is there is nothing that crucial that we need BDC for and he is bad at rallying support among the fanbase and gathering new donors and excitement among the younger generation. Within the next year is an optimal time to have BDC resign or be fired and for OSU to turn on a new leaf from one piece of the Athletics puzzle since we know we are stuck with Riley for a few years atleast most likely and also with Robinson. However, a new AD can change the credibility of the department overall and have these next few years properly evaluated to make good decisions closing out this decade.

    Very few seem compelled by the prospect of BDC making another series of decisions at OSU. The department needs to sell more to younger professionals and much less the 60+ crowd it does now. There needs to be a rebirth and regeneration of the department in this respect and a new AD has a great opportunity to accomplish that as well as get fresh ideas about Reser expansion, recapturing basketball as an important sport of pride, and eventually deciding on our next head football coach. Let a new AD work on improving the overall sports culture at OSU and maybe we can get a renaissance with a united fanbase that we already know won’t happen under BDC.

  • whiskey soaked napkins says:
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    OT,but here’s the latest on Keith Price. Hasn’t been ruled out for the game, but will not throw until Thursday

    http://blogs.seattletimes.com/huskyfootball/2013/11/17/huskies-to-shut-down-keith-price-until-thursday/

  • Jack says:
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    I think it might be unfair to hype this as an old guard post. I guess the sentiment is there, but it’s so poorly written, scattered and full of inaccuracies. The old guard faction of whom we speak (also different than others their age, but seemingly in the majority for that age?) isn’t that stupid. They’re just at a point where they’re willing to ho-dee-hum through mediocrity rather than take a chance at something more and maybe fail… for three decades apparently.

  • wannabeav says:
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    A few thoughts in response to Angry’s question, and intervening posts.

    I was at the game in Tempe Saturday and spent a lot of time (there wasn’t much to look at the
    first 20-25 minutes of game time) surveying the OSU crowd. It definitely trended to 65+ (not surprisingly those are the folks who have retired to the desert or have the means to get there) but apart from the demographics they were a decidedly laid back group; again the game circumstances would have enforced that. After a while I was engaged in a running commentary
    with my buddy about “low IQ football there,” to “what was he thinking?” (Gilmore’s route), etc. when soon the guy behind me (straight out guard central casting) picked up on my “critical look” at what was going on on the field and started defending stuff; “momentum carried him out of bounds,” and “it’s easy to block long kicks etc” My point, I guess, is this: the “we’ll take what we can get” attitude is more endemic than I had ever thought possible. And, yes, someone who graduated in ’84 should definitely be considered “old guard” because his formative experience came during an era when 3 wins was considered a lot, and simply being competitive deep into games was considered success. In the end, though, it’s not about calendar age, really, (because I’m on Medicare) but about “program age.” I became a fan in ’99 when my son went there. So this gets us to the crux of the problem. beav fans who came of age following the team in the 70’s and 80’s are in fact content with 6-7 wins seasons and 8-9’ers are great years. The “new generation” (’99, or really, ’00 and later) are far more vocal, and by and large younger, which as the old guard literally dies off makes them appear to be more prominent, such as on this site.

    All this will be coming to a head soon, in circumstances both large and small. let’s take the latter first, speaking of the ridiculous circular for bowl game tickets. I’ve said before, the athletic department will be astonished at the low response rate, and when Kraft or Gildan is settled upon, with the low purchase rate. (In fact, I predict now that we will shortly see an email from the dept. urging sign up so that they can show the bowl organizers “strong interest by OSU ticket buyers.”) (BDC, by the way, will have his own “game day” when he has to tussle with Bill Moos or other
    bottom six Pac 12 AD’s to get one of those coveted bowl assignments.)

    Bigger picture, long term. De Carolis has figured out (belatedly) that the facilties arms race is rapidly outpacing OSU’s capability, even with Larry Scott’s TV windfall. That’s why they are starting to send out the development staff to beat the bushes on early feasibility for a football center and modest stadium re-do and Casey’s “pavilion” over at Goss. This, I maintain, is the opportunity for direct feedback to BDC and Ed Ray about the state of disgruntlement with the program. In other words, it will finally dawn on the administration (Ray/BDC) that the facility improvements on the east side are a product of Barnhart/Erickson regime and that you need that level of success, or the prospect of that success, to generate donor interest.

    Which is why, the baseball improvements will proceed, and the football plans fall flat until such time as something changes the dynamic, such as a new athletic director

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      I guess my crowd is a little more angry-beaveresque in that most of us (6 guys plus several casual fans that could give a shit about the outcome) are very critical during games. We’re constantly bitching whenever something goes wrong. Maybe because of our numbers the pollyannas are intimidated to say anything because I don’t recall anyone ever challenging our critical comments. We range in age from 40-65 but we don’t contain any big time donors (>$100,000) either so I’m sure we’re in the minority.

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    Tim Euhus has a blog post today that fits with the theme of this post.

    http://www.csnnw.com/beavers/positivity-and-entitlement-beaver-nation

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      Sounds like Tim is saying change your expectations, don’t lower them. Change them to “I want to be entertained”. Sorry, I am entertained by seeing a team accomplish a victory. To be entertained by watching a team not reach it’s potential and ultimately fail is sadistic.

      • whiskey soaked napkins says:
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        watching the beavers and this coaching staff continue to stumble over their own two feet against quality opponents (and FCS ones to boot) is not entertaining. It’s actually sad. It’s sad that many of us have accepted defeat before the game has even been played. It’s a trend that has and will continue. So no Tim, I am not entertained.

    • wannabeav says:
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      There’s some merit to what Tim has to say (within the scope of one of Angry’s sub-texts which is the need to keep all this in perspective) but by and large I don’t think it fits the theme of this post.
      I don’t think anyone, on this site anyway, feels entitled to wins, BCS bowl games, and the like. They want to see a team always prepared to compete and then execute well in games; they expect coaches to make good decisions, with the clock and sideline substitutions (and Riley almost coached himself out of points when the clock got down to :01 sec.). They do have the entirely reasonable expectation NOT to lose to lower division teams. And when the team provides a gutty performance in a loss, like Stanford this year, there’s no extraordinary grousing. It’s the chronic malfunction that sets people off; false starts; blocked kicks; poor run-backs, anal retentiveness on time outs, etc.; chronic malfunction, I should say, without any prospect of mitigation.

      I might even make a modest concession and stipulate that a Gronkowski 5 star talent isn’t recruitable to Corvallis, but it’s the mental weakness, the low IQ stuff (as Angry famously phrased it) that bothers beaver nation; not the relative level of physical talent. And that, fundamentally, comes down to coaching and preparation. For example, just how is it possible, this late in the season, that our own coach says the receivers ran routes like a Jr. high team?

      • Numbers says:
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        Excellent!

      • angry angry says:
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        Exactly, I feel entitled to watching a well-prepared team with a game plan.

      • whiskey soaked napkins says:
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        Exactly. How does a team, especially on offense, come off a bye week looking that unprepared? Especially after the abysmal performance against USC? The bottom line is this coaching staff is not doing enough to prepare the team for these tougher games. Minus the performance against Stanford for the most part, the USC and ASU games were forgettable. I turned off the ASU game when we fell behind 20-0 and didn’t turn it back on. Guess what? We still lost so I didn’t miss anything. I was not entertained. i was disgusted at the teams lack of preparedness.

        • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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          They were just rusty, from not playing in over 2 weeks 😉

  • marcusaurelius says:
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    There’s a pretty easy solution to all of this. Go root for a team that does the things you like – recruitment, coaching, game play. Who gives a shit if it’s not your alma mater. You can keep making suggestions, critical or whatever, that’s your right as an alum. But at some point he just ain’t gonna change for you and you gotta go find a better partner. At least you’ll get to root for a team with the qualities you are looking for in a college football program.

    • Jack says:
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      If it were just football, this site wouldn’t exist in its current state.

      It’s a systemic problem, and you’re making some familiar gremlin noises.

  • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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    On the subject of “low expectations” for OSU football, here are two telling tweets today from Lindsay Schnell:

    Tweet #1: @Quizz79 Lastly, do you have ANY idea how well respected Riley is around CFB, esp from other coaches, who know he’s not working with much?

    Tweet #2: On my flight home yesterday I sat next to a very nice, very smart fan who understands why Riley is right guy for OSU. Wish more ppl got it.

    In these tweets, and elsewhere, Lindsay has made no secret of her low expectations for OSU football, her dim view of the talent level in the OSU football program, and her high regard for Mike Riley — who is the “right guy”, in Lindsay’s view, to make something out of “not much” in “Cowtown”.

    Personally, I have little or no respect for Lindsay Schnell as a writer or a football analyst. Lindsay seems to be a self-absorbed, self-important, shallow little tweeter/twit. But, still, I do recognize the influence Lindsay currently wields as the lead beat writer on OSU football at the Oregonian.

    It is unhelpful (to say the least) to have the Oregonian’s lead beat writer thinking and saying stuff like this. It is not just a symptom of the “low expectations” problem. It is also a contributor to that problem. Fans, recruits, etc. who Google “OSU football” and read garbage like this from Lindsay are being given an impression of OSU as a hopelessly mediocre place. That may be fine with Lindsay. But it shouldn’t be fine with OSU fans (or with OSU players, or with Coach Riley for that matter…)

    Lindsay — if you are reading this — here’s another story idea for you. Please investigate and explain how Pat Casey and OSU baseball can achieve such great success year after year (winning national championships and PAC-12 championships, going to Omaha regularly, recruiting some of the nation’s best players to Corvallis, etc.) while Mike Riley and OSU football struggle to make a second-tier bowl game each year.

    • GreatWhiteHunter says:
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      If I was an OSU football player, I would get so effing pissed at all the “not working with much” comments, ESPECIALY from the beat writer?! I would bet they are sick of it too. Stop treating them with kid gloves. These are adults playing a big boy’s game. They are either good, or not good, but it even discredits the stars we do have to constantly preach the “more with less” mantra. Sickening.

      • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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        Bigger question. Why is a woman a football beat writer? Please don’t start with the sexist tirades.
        Would it be too much to ask for somebody that at least played tackle football in the seventh or eight grade? Her comments are insulting to the University, the city, and the players.

        • Numbers says:
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          Amen

        • helmsley says:
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          Agree – I don’t know much about football but I know enough to know she doesn’t know anything either. I rarely bother to read her semi-soaps. She stresses that she is a beat writer, not a columnist, and then proceeds to opine about Riley and “what he has to work with.” Other coaches probably do like him but maybe don’t worry about his teams all that much.

          And I hate it when people refer to recruiting to Corvallis. They are being recruited to Oregon State University which happens to be in the midst of Corvallis, a leafy small city in a beautiful state.

    • wannabeav says:
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      excellent analysis, silverstream. The press is way too protective of Riley. It all becomes a self fulfilling cycle. But here’s the thing. Riley himself used to recruit better players than he does now. Just got through watching Dwan Edwards make an impact on the Carolina d-line. And since I’m big on the “formative” and “normative’ framework of analysis, just where has Lindsey been to be making opinions like this? This is her first job, I suspect, and Riley, his current roster, is all she has known.

      • helmsley says:
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        from Columbus MT high school. Five thousand population at the most. Now impacted by the Bakken development. Whoever, from Oregon State would’ve thought to recruit from there – b4 videos etc.?

        • JD says:
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          Dwan was an Erickson recruit. DE played in Montana and started his coaching career at one of the schools up there.

    • mckalk says:
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      Wow, it’s an uphill battle when the new beat writer has already swallowed the Kool-Aid. For the local media, I think Riley is a dream with his accessibility and nice guy demeanor. They don’t want to lose that anytime soon. Self-serving interests are at work here.

      Also, playing the “what if” game….losses to San Diego St. and Utah and you have a 4-6 team that’s not going anywhere in the post-season and could possibly finish 4-8. Would that have changed anything with the fan base? Precious minor bowl games seem to mean so much to the old guard. I did read an article where 6-6 might not get them to a bowl.

      • whiskey soaked napkins says:
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        Actually, I am kind of hoping that’s what happens. We lose out and get passed over for a shitty bowl game at 6-6. That would make 3 of the last 4 years which is the tail end of a recruiting cycle. How will the Riley lovers explain that?

      • wannabeav says:
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        that’s a valuable insight, mckalk. Riley’s access by itself creates a feedback loop with the media that keeps folks like us in here howling at the moon.

  • homefry homefry says:
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    As of this post, I guess we shouldn’t discount a six point win against Portland…with 13 left, they are a point down on the road at #1 Michigan State.

    Is that a point of fact, or just pollyannish?

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    #1 Mich State leads by 1 at half vs…….Univ if Portland Pilots?

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      They played Sparty pretty even until midway through the 2nd half.

  • Refund says:
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    The “Old Timer” said “Even if Nick Saban came to OSU, I guarantee the results wouldn’t change much.” You have to be kidding me. Have you seen him coach? He is after it from start to finish. If he magically rolled into Corvallis looking for a challenge…I would give it 3-4 years before things improved. Once he had a chance to redesign the team a bit. I bet Stanford was just really good before Jim Harbaugh showed up and happened upon a good thing. In case you don’t like to google, 4-7 in ’07 increased every year to 12-1. Came in, recruited quality, won games.

    • whiskey soaked napkins says:
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      another good point I failed to bring up in my not entertained post. Riley and staff have been back in Corvallis 10 years. Why are there still depth issues at key positions? Defensive line, linebackers. Why can’t our O-line block worth two shits? Why has that been an ongoing problem for the last 4 years? If you want to get better results, recruit better players and coach them up. ANY coach that is good at his craft can convince some decent 18-19 year old kids to come to Corvallis. It all boild down to recruiting. This staff gets a fail when it comes to recruiting imo.

      I also cut n pasted this from Euhus’ blog.

      It seems Beaver Nation feels entitled to another PAC-12 Championship, another BCS bowl game, and another ring.

      Excuse me? Another? That was 13 fucking years ago and it was a shared conference championship. The beavers have won nothing outright. Nothing. It’s been 15 years since we ended the 28 straight years of losing. Let it go. The beavers will always be the same old beavers until they get away from this logic of thinking. Think future. Not past. College football has had a changing of the guard the last 10 years. Start thinking forward or get left behind.

      • whiskey soaked napkins says:
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        and for the record I have been a beaver fan since 11 years old when i moved here in 1986. My first football game was Dave Kragthorpe’s air express against Akron in 1988 (I think it was, but could have been ’87. The beavs won and I was hooked). I remember being so close on several occasions. Hawaii in 1989 comes to mind. I was just as jubilant as everyone else in 1999 when we finally broke the streak. The 1998 civil war to this day remains my favorite beaver victory. I watched that one at the time out bar with my brother the day I met my future wife that I lost to cancer two years ago. I even got misty eyed as the dream of the beavers finally going to a bowl game after being so bad for so long became a reality. I came on at the end of the successful era of beaver hoops. I have suffered through every losing season since. I was at the USC game in 1995 (I think) when Josiah Lake and the beavers beat USC in OT for the only win in conference play in a 1-17 season. I have been at Gill for everyone from Gary Payton. I was there when Sean Elliot, Jason Kidd, Jason Kapono and countless other squads brought their teams to the old barn. My favorite all time game attended was against Wazzu in the late 80’s when “Super” Mario Jackson nailed the game winner in double OT off an inbounds pass under our own basket With :01 left on the clock. I knew it was good as soon as it left his hands. I have been there. Through a lot of winning. But mostly through a shit pot of losing. I think I qualify as old an old school tried and true beaver fan. I’m just fed up with only getting close. Pat Casey has done a wonderful thing with the baseball program and turned them into a perennial contender with his own blood, sweat and tears. So it can be done in lil old “cowtown” Corvallis.

    • Jack says:
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      If Saban suddenly got that wild hair and came came to Corvallis, so would a bunch of four and five star recruits. But that’s only if we wanted them anyway. And then we wouldn’t like Saban because he would be doing more with more instead of less.

      However, I am pretty sure I would jump on the “we can’t do any better than Saban” bandwagon.

  • Mb says:
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    Most of you whipper snappers were raised in the era of soccer trophies for all and Donald Trump Apprentice reality tv. Feelings get hurt and low self esteem follows if you and your team do not get a trophy every season. When something goes wrong, lacking any specific ideas, you want someone fired, because that is what the Donald does. Mo money solves all problems and neato Halloween costumes for every day wear are a requirement. Two scoops of money, add water for instant results and instant erasure of the past. It is an entitlement because we deserve it. Many of us old guys think that both BDC and MR are not very intelligent. We think that they are lazy and exude lazy thinking. We think that there should be debate about similar models that exist within college sports. Name five other similar programs and analyze how they are doing it better. How did Baylor do it? Is every American allergic to hard work, allergic to building things and addicted to reality tv pr in this day and age? Some of us old guys look to new models of successful leadership, like Pope Francis. Darn it, I meant Kanye West.

  • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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    Angry, you will like this. The fake field goal Michigan State ran against Nebraska was called “Charlie Brown” LOL.
    http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2013/11/michigan_state_football_pulls.html

    • angry angry says:
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      I guess they read angrybeavs, too!
      Cue the trolls

      • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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        Did you see the play? Holder picks up the ball and kicker becomes the lead blocker up the gut.
        It was a great call.

  • NorCalBeaver NorCalBeaver says:
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    @jason. You must be that compound of motor homes out in the gravel lot area at the fairgrounds. I always tailgate with my buddy that drives the BEAVS equipment truck. Usually just inside the fence.

  • Jack says:
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    We should start a Pollyanna glossary of words and phrases.

    more with less
    1. A mandated impossibility most commonly associated with institutions targeted for profit-taking and asset dumping.
    2. An OSU Pollyanna excuse which both praises its football coaches and greatly disrespects its student athletes by conflating each with their respective positions within the phrase. The premise is that the coaches are so excellent that they do “more” with players who are so substandard that they are lesser than their Pac 12 peers, thus they are “less.”

    it’s hard to ____
    1. A lazy phrase used by lazy people to excuse laziness.
    1a. When used in conjunction with “recruit to Corvallis” it becomes an OSU Pollyanna excuse which requires that OSU and Corvallis must suck eggs in order for it to be true.

    They didn’t execute
    1. A simplistic explanation for failure more commonly used with the collective “we”
    2. OSU coach speak for “it’s not my fault”
    2a. OSU coach speak for “my players stink” (i.e. “less”)

    We just don’t have the talent
    1. See “more with less,” specifically “less”

    • Jack says:
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      facility
      /f??sil?t?/

      noun (plural: facilities)

      1. space or equipment necessary for doing something:
      “cooking facilities”
      2. an ability to do or learn something well and easily; a natural aptitude:
      “We don’t have the facilities to recruit against _____.”
      3. An OSU Pollyanna euphemism for “will.”:
      “We don’t have the facilities to recruit against _____.”

  • slamadam says:
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    What does it say about beaver football when the fanbase can’t seem to agree on what is worth being proud of and what isn’t. My thing is that the ending of the 28 years of shittyness has been over for 14 years, and it wasn’t even actually ended by Riley. beav84 claims you could make Nick Saban the beavers’ coach and it wouldn’t make much of a difference, but in only four years Dennis Erickson did a decent job of disproving that. If you really do believe that they can’t do any better than they’ve done under Riley, essentially no less than four losses and zero chance of a rose bowl then I just don’t get why you even bother watching the games.

    • mckalk says:
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      Ending the streak obviously wasn’t that important to Riley, he leveraged a 5-6 season to bolt to the NFL. Erickson should be the one treated as a God around Corvallis (instead of an aberration) since he delivered
      the Beavers from losers hell and eased the deep psychological wounds of a fragile fan base who now apparently believe that if Riley left even 7-5 seasons and meaningless minor bowl games would no longer be possible.

    • whatever says:
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      Didn’t we play the Civil War for 2 Rose Bowls? Is that no chance?

  • SanDiegoBeav says:
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    I think the key to uniting the expectations between the old guard and the new fans is hiring a dynamic athletic director. Someone that is confident and well spoken and can lead the athletic department in the right direction. As of right now, I don’t think any of the fans have any confidence in BDC, in Riley, or in Ray. I think we are all somewhat afraid of change because we don’t know what mistake BDC will make next.

  • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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    Totally unrelated to the thread (and I haven’t checked the game thread) but did I see Wynn in the backfield on one play, in the first half I think, third and short? Basically a lead blocker. I haven’t seen reference to it and of course the heady announces didn’t notice it.

    • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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      It was just something a little different. The formation ended up kind of unusual (for our Beavs, at least).

    • whiskey soaked napkins says:
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      yes. I believe that was the play I stated looked like the pettibone years. They lined up with two fullbacks and a running back behind the QB like this. Gave me bad flashbacks to Don Shanklin and the wishbone

      X

      X X

      X

      • Jack says:
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        It looked like the Belly-T Dewey Sullivan ran forever at Dayton.

  • helmsley says:
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    C’mon guys! Hip Hip HOORAY for Roberto Nelson. POW. When I think what that kid has been through and what he has done – I think he’s damn amazing.

  • helmsley says:
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    In addition – check this out –

    http://www.osubeavers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=30800&ATCLID=209314456

    Sounds like Laura Berg can recruit to Oregon State University. For anyone who’s never seen her play or coach – it”s a little scarey.

    • whiskey soaked napkins says:
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      but but but………………….. the experts all say that you can’t recruit quality players to Corntucky

    • Jack says:
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      Meh… you know they’ll all be drafted and not end up at OSU.

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    84 is a fool, buying into the platitudes that say Riley is the best we can expect to get.

    One big reason Riley himself isnt what he was. I might take the Riley from the early half of 2000-2010. But now he loses to D2 schools, goes 3-9 even one season, doesnt seem to be pulling in the occasional big win like he once did.

    With that 28 year losing season looming not all that long ago, you will get plenty of those with that mindset, defending an obviously slipping, Riley. Any coach with even ONE winning season is a GOOD coach (at Corvallis) so Riley must be a great one.

    I think the old Riley would have pulled out one of the 3-in-a-row losses we just had. Our current Riley is just an observer, assigned to talk to the press after a loss.

    So I vote for moving on. Buy him out.

    One trouble is, you still have BDC at the helm, and you only need to look at the basketball coach to see he doesnt make the greatest hires.

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