30.Nov.2011 Beavs Chasing B and C list recruits

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Three of the past four commits have been two star (or less) recruits.

Kendall Hill–2 stars

Caleb Saulo–2 stars

Chris Miller-0 stars

Not that stars are the end all, but these guys don't show well on film. Is anyone excited about Cade Cowdin's film? I'm not. After a brilliant start to recruiting, there has been an epic fade. The Beavers need game-changing defenders. Shelton would be a good signing, but now that Rodriguez took the helm he's 50-50. Guys like Cowdin and Skotte do not fit the bill. The staff has all kinds of free time to recruit, yet they're still picking low-hanging fruit. If Cade Cowdin leads to OSU stopping the Black Mamba, beating Oregon, or making a Rose Bowl, hey, I'll gladly apologize. My feeling is we need fast, grade-A defenders and now.

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  • bleedsorange says:
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    I watched Cowdin’s film too. At first look he doesn’t seem like the fastest guy down the line of scrimmage, but once he got in range of the ball carrier he closed fast. He also wrapped up with both arms and brought the runner down on the spot. When was the last time you saw an OSU LB do that? He reminds me of Joey LaRoque…not the fastest guy on the field, but a guy who played fast because of good instinct and above par tackling. I think Cowdin is a BIG upgrade over Robinson and could challenge Doctor and Welch for a starting spot at OLB.

    • Butkus51 says:
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      I have followed Cowdin lately and he has converted from a middle backer to outside. The main reason was that he has 4.55 speed and can tackle like a middle backer. If the Beavers need someone to cover the slot receiver and still make tackles on the sideline then I think they will be happy with him. He has two interceptions and a couple of blocked kicks this year so you are right about him getting to the ball. I too feel he is a big upgrade and would fit nicely into a starting role. He may not be around long as Washington was meeting with him last night. Go Beavs!

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    DEs Crichton and Wynn are my favorite players right now but I still don’t know how we lost Owamagbe Odighizua to Rick and UCLA.
    Also, I’m disappointed in Doctor’s civil war effort and performance. Earlier this year I had high hopes for him but alas not anymore.

    • locusimperium says:
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      yeah, Doctor needs to make another jump this offseason, I think he has it in him, but LB’s won’t be a strength next year anyhow, unless Welch starts drinking the same stuff as Wynn.

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        Welch has looked good in his very limited playing time as has Rusty Fernando but like Angry says, not really game changers.

        • angry angry says:
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          I think Welch could be very good. Figures he got the least playing time.
          The idea of moving Wynn to MLB is good if another DE steps up. Fernando at DE, Wynn at MLB? That might work.

          Bottom line is they need A list game changing recruits. Easier said than done, but with this much free time they should be able to come up with a pitch.

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            Regarding moving players around… Riley is strongly against it. The more practices I’ve hung around (only last 2 years) and the more I hear people ask him questions about any specific player I hear over and over that he doesn’t like to move players.
            Recently during one of his weekly call-ins to Portland radio they asked him about changing offenses and/or defenses and he explained how difficult it is to install a new offense/defense even over the course of an entire off season, then he elaborated on how difficult it is to move just one player to a different position like offensive guard to tackle or defensive tackle to end etc. He said they have the discussion of what position a guy will play during the recruiting process, at which time he is very open and flexible but once they’ve decided and the player has gone through a season, that’s it. It takes an extreme case, usually injuries, to move players.

            We fans can play college fantasy football managers with our existing roster but its all pissing in the wind.

          • mckalk says:
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            As opposed to how easy he will make BDC’s job if he lays another 3-9 egg next year?

          • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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            Riley has routinely changed positions, Zimmerman to Safety, Motter to DL, Ashton to Safety, those are jsut off the top of my head there have been more. Then there are the guys you think would want to move and don’t so it has to depend on the player and the coaches.

          • ObjCritic says:
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            “routinely” might be a bit generous. Zimmerman was at a stacked position, and Ashton was not likely to wind up at QB. The other switches usually seems to be guys that don’t see the field at their new position, and had less of a chance at their old position (e.g Braun).

            I think in terms of getting the best on the field, and distributing play-makers on defense, Wynn to MLB makes great sense (he could be moved around to take advantage of his abilities and energy), with Fernando primarily a pass-rushing DE sharing time with other DE’s.

            Then there are impact playmakers at every level – DL (Chricton, hopefully Thompson), LB (Wynn, probably Welch, maybe Unga, Doctor, Johnson), Secondary (Poyer, potentially Reynolds, Murphy).

          • slamadam says:
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            i dont like fernando as a run stuffer i see him as more of a third down edge rusher. id be curious how hed look as a 3-4 outside linebacker, not that it’ll ever come up with banker here

          • WFO WFO says:
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            I wonder if Castro could play nose in a 3-4 if he got in better shape? He’s big…

  • Noah says:
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    WSU just hired Leach. Now we get even more chances to demonstrate how ineffective we are against the spread.

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    Anyone hear the Rick Neuheisel interview on The Herd this morning? Very refreshing to hear him lay out the relationship between a university’s football team expectations and the amount of money they have. He’s been acting less and less like the snake reputation he built for himself in Colorado and Seattle too. Nice to hear someone actually answer tough questions during an interview albeit he is a lame duck.

  • angry angry says:
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    My buddy said they’re now talking about recruiting over on rivals.com. Mamma Machado had this to say about Riley and DTs

    The Beavers have not been in contact with either prospect. Coach Riley said on Sunday that DT is not a huge priority. They have a couple JUCO’s that they are looking at, but there in not a huge rush to recruit DT’s as the staff is happy with the guys they have (including the large group that redshirted this year).

    I know that isn’t what many in Beaver Nation want to hear, but that’s what’s going on within the VFC.

    Ha ha! DT is not a priority. Riley is happy with who he has. Ha ha!

    • ean says:
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      that is pretty disappointing. I think Thompson will be solid but we usually play 4 guys at DT. Seumalo proved to be serviceable at a guy to rotate in but I would think we could use a JC guy or two. Then again this Salt kid looks a lot like Massiania (or however you spell it). Maybe Bennet, Robins, Tuivailala, and Rosa are that good but I wont believe it til I see it.

      • slamadam says:
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        apparently they were happy with lopez’s rs freshman year also, he started to get into the rotation the last three or four games too

        • ean says:
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          meh…. I guess Lopez may develop into a Frahm…. but that is not much to look forward to. I do think though that there is no point in just getting a body at DT. I think we should at least try swinging for the stars at positions like DT and RB were we are deep but not necessarily that talented.

    • brownale9000 says:
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      Considering the needs at LB and CB at this point, I agree – bringing in another HS defensive tackle shouldn’t be a priority.

      I’ve heard Fred Thompson described as next year’s Scott Crichton. Personally, I think Brandon Bennett could/should be very good as well. Do we need another freshman DT?

      Sure, take the best players you can get, but we’re hurting in other areas that I’d prefer to see us address before that position.

      • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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        We need DT’s. Riley is on drugs.

        • WFO WFO says:
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          Strength and conditioning coach needs to be all over Castro this off season. He’s a big dude but he’s a big fat fucker too. He’s got a broken leg so he should be in the weight room working his upper body. He needs to lay off the macdonalds too, his love handles look more like forklift points. I think he has potential,just needs to get in better shape.

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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    Washington State website:

    Welcome to Washington State MIKE LEACH

    Click to BUY TICKETS

    ———
    Remember the excitement when DE came aboard?

    • mckalk says:
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      I can’t believe how fast that happened. Moos must have put his plan in motion weeks ago. I thought for sure Leach would listen to Kansas. I guess Pullman is kind of the Lubbock of the P-12, but I personally think Leach could have held out for better jobs unless he knows which programs would have been too gutless to take a chance.

      • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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        Good for them. Bad for us. Moos made the big splash hire.

  • brownale9000 says:
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    Unrelated:

    As expected, Bruce Barron leaves the U of Nike.

    Next step, Dominic Artis tries to get out of his LOI.

  • christianbale says:
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    How many points will Wazzu destroy the beavers by?

    I see OSU in the bottom of the division for a long time unless Stanfraud returns back to it’s losing ways…

    • Gman says:
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      Doesn’t mean we will lose next year, or the year after… Leach is going to have the same recruits pretty much from Wulff for a bit.

    • WFO WFO says:
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      I see Stanford returning to the 6-7 wins a year category.

      The loss of Harbaugh is too much to overcome.

  • Occupy Angry Beavs says:
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    Many athletes committed to Arizona, Arizona State, Washington State and UCLA are reconsidering. You all want change. Maybe, this year stability helps with recruiting and we can get 5-10 more good recruits and grey shirt the two stars as we usually do. This could be a positive off-season. What I am curious to see is how hard the players work in the off season.

  • helmsley says:
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    OT – from time-to-time, those posting to this site have commented about the delayed technology on the oregonstate.edu website. I note the banner for the Civil War football game is still there when you link to athletics and when I clicked on the basketball practice facility hoping for a progress report, I see only something dated January 2011.

    Also, I don’t understand the non-emphasis on the home page of the technical, engineering,science, research component of OSU. Instead there are blurbs about dental clinics and encouraging people to drink tapwater. I’ve noticed that on the few OSU games that are televised when the OSU advert comes on, it’s usually someone in a wheat field (I know, it’s an ag school, too). On the other hand U of O shows a research laboratory and I don’t think of UO as being science-oriented at all. There – I thought I’d complain about something other than the football team.

    • steveEbeaver says:
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      Yeah, I was disappointed to see the CW banner too and you’re right about the uo, based on research grant dollars the uo is last in the P-12.

    • OrangeExpress says:
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      ive said it before and i’ll say it again – OSU marketing is the pits – bad decisions, no direction.

  • OneEyedKing says:
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    Cade Cowdin –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6ewlZ1KSfg
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlRdTHdovac

    Cade Cowdin seems like a good pickup to me. His closing burst is excellent, he hits hard and makes sure tackles, and, thank god, he doesn’t just run into blockers; he roams around until he finds a hole and hits it.

    He looks like a good pickup to me. No, he’s probably not immediately first team all-conference, but who is? He’s a huge upgrade.

    Kendall Hill –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHh48Ha88Uo

    Big, physical safety(He better be a safety, not a WR). Looks like a good ballhawk, and while his hits aren’t the biggest, he does seem to wrap up at the correct point on an opponent(drives through the upper legs/waist); not a sloppy tackler. But since we haven’t had a great ballhawk safety in years, I’m excited to see what he can do. His speed does not seem great, would be my only real concern about him.

    Caleb Saulo(3 Star OLB via Scouts) –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en-6TffjtEo

    1st team All League OLB, 2nd team All League QB. Love those credentials(like Jordan Poyer). Also, check out the VISCOUS sack at 30 seconds. Also, ran an option offense as QB, so he should(hopefully) be able to defend it better than most. Also watch at 2:50 for 2 plays: one where he somehow avoids a blocker(you’re allowed to do that?) and makes a nice tackle, and the next play, where he drives a blocker back on a running play, drives through him, and makes the tackle.
    Seems like he has solid speed and good burst, but makes too many arm tackles/ankle tackles. But he avoids blocks and reads plays really well.

    Honestly, I really like Cowdin and Hall. Saulo, I’m less optimistic about, but they’re all upgrades over what we currently have. Not running straight into linemen, and looking for the ball, put them leagues above our current stables. So regardless of the star ratings, I think they look good and will contribute quite a bit. If you’re waiting for Riley to get some 4 and 5 stars, you’re going to be waiting for a long time(Akuna is still around somewhere).

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Cowdin seems to read and react well, then play till the whistle. My question was is another OLB necessary, or a priority over DT, given the number of fast OLB’s on the roster.

      I thought Hill looked tall, gangly (6′ 3″ 182 lbs), and not at all fluid or especially fast compared to the others on the field. Looks like he should be a possession receiver, not a “ballhawking” safety. I suppose if he keeps his current speed and puts on 20 lbs by the time he’s ready to play…but right now he looks like a good pickup for PSU to me.

      I like and appreciate the observation that Saulo’s experience as an option QB could help the Beavs in playing against such offenses, but you say you’re less optimistic about him.

      Hill is the one that seems like a reach to me.

    • locusimperium says:
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      I must say, unimpressed by Cowdin’s film

      • OneEyedKing says:
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        Man, controversial players lol.

        I agree that Hill’s agility is not great, and I wouldn’t want him matched up man-to-man very often. But he seems to have great instincts and good hands, so if we just put him in zone and let him roam, he could make plays like our former greats.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    I can’t believe we are not going after any DT’s, however I don’t think that is the number priority either. I would say LB and DB’s are the first place. We need more depth and better tackling and better awareness from our LB’s. Plus, that position is so versitile and could play safety or move up to DE and just help out on Special Teams. I agree that the Skotte committ doesn’t excite me. Having said that our depth on the DL is thin at best.

  • matt b says:
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    In the skill positions, WSU has better players than OSU. I was wrong about Leach being untouchable. But his ol players do not require as much skill as typical pro set linemen. The line splits are so wide that the lineman basically can shield rather than block to create openings, much like U of O. Pass rushing off the end requires a long way to go against a Leach lineup. WSU line is instantly better. This was really evident watching Texas Tech in Reno a couple of years back.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      And we can’t underestimate the value of coaching (our main point here the last 3 months…). Look at what Harbaugh brought to Stanford and is bringing to SF.

      Leach may have Wulff’s players, but he’ll get more out of them. Chris Peterson, Chip Kelly, Jim Harbaugh, Gary Patterson, all could get more out of the Beaver’s roster than Riley et al do. And don’t say “OSU can’t afford them.” The point is, these are guys that were hired when they weren’t big time expensive coaches (Harbaugh excepted, he was a big name obviously). They were motivated to perform at a high level in environments with varying levels of competition and resources. Does anybody believe that Riley and his coordinators could achieve more than those coaches in THEIR environments with their resources and competition levels? I don’t.

  • matt b says:
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    How does anyone know that Thompson will be good? He has not played in 2 years. How does anyone know Jackson will be ok? He has not played in 2 years and only has about 3 years of football experience.

    • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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      I agree, so assume you are happy with the depth at DL with guys who haven’t even been on the field yet seems ridiculous. Then you add in the that the coaching staff has admittedly let the talent level on the past recruiting classes drop, it doesn’t inspire much confidence in their abilty moving forward. We should be poaching the classes of Az, Wsu, Ucla, and Asu to try to get some upgrades.

      • ObjCritic says:
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        If the current crop of DT’s didn’t challenge the underperforming upperclassmen, they offer little hope (Thompson excepted). Here’s “the replacements” from the OSU website:

        54 Bennett, Brandon DT 6-1 271 FR Birmingham, Ala./Spring (TX)
        99 Braun, John DT 6-5 276 SO Lebanon, Ore./West Albany
        79 Lopez, Joe DT 6-0 275 RS FR Portland, Ore./Central Catholic
        98 Masaniai, Castro DT 6-3 334 JR Waipahu, Hawai’i/Waipahu
        90 Robins, Ali’i DT 6-1 250 FR Ewa Beach, Hawai’i/Saint Louis
        49 Seumalo, Andrew DT 6-3 281 JR Corvallis, Ore./Santiam Christian
        92 Thompson, Fred DT 6-4 317 FR Richmond, Calif./Oakland Tech

        If I recall, Braun was a O-lineman who was buried so far on the depth chart he was move to defense because he was just “standing around.” Correct? Or was that Motter?

        This is not a group of guys who are going to perform in the upper half of the Pac-12. Unless last year’s recruits that went to JC (Iona, et al) are now coming to OSU, passing on JC DTs seems like pure stubbornness.

        As for the Oline:

        63 Addie, Justin OL 6-2 311 FR Mesa, Ariz./Skyline
        51 Beaton, Michael OL 6-3 300 RS FR Dallas, Ore./Dallas
        71 Enger, Grant OL 6-5 279 SO Bothell, Wash./O’Dea
        62 Garner, Geoff OL 6-5 308 RS SO Mesa, Ariz./Mesa
        75 Nielsen, Derek OL 6-4 270 RS FR Eugene, Ore./Sheldon
        73 Vieru, David OL 6-3 315 FR Portland, Ore./Centennial
        67 Welch, Jake OL 6-2 308 FR Longview, Wash./Mark Morris
        72 Jackson, Darryl OT 6-6 323 FR Lakewood, Calif./Mayfair
        64 Kelly, Colin OT 6-5 295 JR Kelso, Wash./Kelso
        77 Philipp, Michael OT 6-4 308 JR San Bernardino, Calif./Arroyo Valley

        Which of these guys steps up? I hear good things about Addie, who else? Again, if they couldn’t challenge Remmers, should we have much hope?

        • osu2008 says:
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          I think Braun was the guy that they moved around. He’s now third string DE. Another waste of a scholarship because he will probably never see a down of football. Other than Thompson, nobody stands out on defense.

        • ean says:
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          Bennet seems like he has put on some weight. Also they moved Rosa to DT. I agree with your point that they should go after some quality DT’s though even if it is a bit of a longshot.

          • ObjCritic says:
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            So the strategy to improve the defense is to have small DT’s who were to slow to play DE?

            Is that how you beat the Ducks? Nice strategy. Worked for Ohio State, Auburn, and LSU. And they really ought to manhandle Stanford’s O-line….

          • ean says:
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            Yeah fast DT’s are better than big slow DT’s verse a school like the Ducks that often times leaves DT’s unblocked. tOSU, LSU and Auburn beat the Ducks with fast athletic DT’s that happened to be big too. Problem for OSU is we are not winning recruiting battles verse tOSU, LSU, USC, UofO, etc. so we have to decide between big DT’s or athletic DT’s or find guys with frames that can add weight which is a gamble. Bennett is a guy I happen to think is worth a gamble on him filling out. Rosa, Lopez, Robbins, etc. are guys with ceilings that are barely serviceable.

          • slamadam says:
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            definitely agree. a lot of what youre saying tome would suggest it might benefit the team to move wynn to dt.

          • ean says:
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            I wouldn’t like Wynn at DT… DE or MLB is where he should be IMO. Could be wrong though.

          • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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            More importantly its the ability of the lineman to disengage and “escape” the hold/block of the OL, usually the unblock lineman is being run away from. I agree we need speedy lineman, but what might be more important are experienced lineman who have good technique and show the abiltiy to break from blocks and use quickness to get into the backfield.

            I saw somewhere, maybe on here, that USC was using a fake step in by the DE to trigger the read option and then the DE would jump back out in contain. That takes agility and quickness, that might be more important then actual speed.

    • HopefulBeav says:
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      Nobody “knows” they will be good and it is concerning that they’ve each already had injury issues at their young ages. The reason people are excited about them is the same reason people get excited about all hyped up linemen: their size mixed with their athleticism. I don’t know if the amount of time they’ve sat out will matter much because football isn’t like basketball or baseball where you have to be constantly practicing. As long as they’re in shape and have the instincts that recruiters claim they have they should both be an improvement over what we had this year.

      • HopefulBeav says:
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        While I’m optimistic about Thompson I definitely agree with everyone that it’s a mistake to not be recruiting more DTs right now though.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    S-I on Leach in Pullman (which does not have OSU’s facilities):

    “And he’ll win. Obviously Oregon is head and shoulders above the rest of the Pac-12 North right now, and while the idea of Leach’s and Chip Kelly’s offenses going head to head is mouthwatering, it might be a couple of years before it’s a fair fight. But much of the rest of the division, and conference, is in flux. Four teams will have new coaches next season. (One of those: Arizona’s Rich Rodriguez. If you thought the Pac-12 was an offense-dominate conference before, it’s only getting started.) Stanford is losing Andrew Luck. Oregon State is down, Cal is vulnerable. Leach’s new archrival, Washington, is trending upward with standout quarterback Keith Price. It will be Leach’s first priority to close the gap.

    As bad was Washington State’s record was under Paul Wulff (including 4-8 this season), one thing it has is offensive weapons. Freshman quarterback Connor Halliday threw for 494 yards and four touchdowns in his first start against Arizona State. Sophomore receiver Marquess Wilson had 82 catches for 1,388 yards and 12 touchdowns this season. As Leach cryptically tweeted Nov. 20: “College football very volatile right now. Lots of front-runners went down. Next year is a good year for undervalued teams to make a move.”

    Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/stewart_mandel/11/30/mike.leach.washington.state/index.html#ixzz1fG4xnda9

  • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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    Pretty lame we didn’t get Leach. Can you imagine what he could do with the young talent at OSU.

    How many scholies do we have to burn and how many have been burnt?

    • beaverbeliver says:
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      Young talent? That made me chuckle….Sorry, I am still at such a loss about how shitty our football program has become. I think that we lack both coaching and athletic talent right now.

  • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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    Brock Huard posted an article this morning about PAC-12 TV money and how it is already raising the bar in the PAC-12:

    ***
    Three years ago Bill Moos and the Cougars would have never been able to afford one of the biggest names in the college football coaching world. Yesterday, they inked a five-year contract with Mike Leach for over $2 million per year, and rattled the cages of the other 11 members of the conference. It also raises the bar across the Pac-12.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/college-football/story?id=7301888 (the quoted section of the article is available for free)
    ***

    Athletic Directors at most other PAC-12 schools have already figured this out. That’s why AZ, WSU, UCLA, and ASU fired their head coaches this season, and are now actively upgrading their coaching staffs and facilities. The more obvious this becomes to the laggards who run OSU football (and to Beaver donors, boosters, and fans), the better….

    • angry angry says:
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      Yesterday, they inked a five-year contract with Mike Leach for over $2 million per year, and they were able to do so because they didn’t sign Paul Wulff to a 9 year deal

      Fixed.

      It’s funny how people laughed at Mike Leach supporters. It’s early in the process, but did Washington State just became a hip destination?

    • JackBeav says:
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      This just in:
      Craig James fires Brock Huard.

      Ahhhhh…. That never gets old.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    How many wasted schollies has this staff thrown away? The Kenyan Parker who is a track athlete with little football experience and the only play I remember in on is a kickoff return going out of bounds at the 2 at Wisconsin. Gave Romaine a schollie too, some of the decisions the staff make are real head scratchers.

    • ean says:
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      I don’t think we would have gotten Romaine without a scholarship. Guys with his distance are rare in college. I am not a big fan of his though.

      • mckalk says:
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        Unfortunately his accuracy caused one of most embarassing losses in Beaver football history.

  • alex says:
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    Projected spring depth chart put out…DJ Welch is a starter, and Robinson is second string 🙂 Good news to see that at this point in the game.

    No idea what the deal is with Akuna…maybe SC dodged a bullet on that one.

    • angry angry says:
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      Didn’t Welch start (or play a lot) in the last couple games? Wonder why it took 10 games to figure that out…

      • brownale9000 says:
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        He was injured in fall camp and didn’t play for a couple games. I’m pretty sure he was in the rotation by Washington State and played a bit more at the end.

        • slamadam says:
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          it wasnt much. he definitly never started. one of those guys who either should played more (ala wynn or cooks) or shouldve been redshirted, especially since he missed the first two (or three) games with an elbow. the coaches handling such a situation properly is asking far too much though. that said, i think he could really good. im hoping that jabral johnson shows some similarities.

          • angry angry says:
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            Forgot about Johnson. He could be very good. Another guy I like at LB is Lavonte Barnett. Recruited as an “athlete”…

    • ean says:
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      I believe that was just Cliff’s guess. A lot can change between now and then.

  • alex says:
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    90% sure he didn’t start…and I don’t remember ever seeing a lot of him. I thought it was just backup duty.

    But as to why it took 10 games to figure that out…good question. The coaches were blinded by Robinson’s dazzling playmaking prowess.

  • angry angry says:
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    Beavs tripping a 2-star WR, Alonzo Agwuenu. Nice to know we don’t need DTs, but we need 900 WRs.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Are you f**king kidding?!?

      • angry angry says:
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        I wish.

        He’s also related to Gwachum, so he’ll most likely sign. Another wasted scholarship…

        I wonder if this is part of the soft landing…? Have fans speculate that Riley’s incorporating an Air Raid/Pat style passing attack…keep morale up via illusions. Probably giving Riley too much credit there; he’s probably just dumb and going for the “family atmosphere”/easy signee.

      • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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        Plan is to give Agwuenu a shot at WR. If that fizzles, Agwuenu will be redshirted to bulk up, and then move to DT.

        • ObjCritic says:
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          Instead of recruiting DTs that are DTs…..

          • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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            It’s all part of Riley’s “diamond in the rough” strategy. No one else has yet figured out that inside every WR is a potential DT. By the time others catch on, OSU will have cornered the market on WRs, and have set up a pipeline of talented DTs for years to come…..

    • HopefulBeav says:
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      I don’t get it. WR is the one position I actually feel confident about and it seems to be the one position they continue to recruit the hardest. Makes no sense to me.

  • angry angry says:
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    Shelton has OSU as a leader, but hasn’t officially committed. He’s waiting for a USC offer.

  • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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    Sorry if I already missed it, but does anybody know who the JUCO WR and LB visiting Corvallis soon will be?

    http://oregonstate.rivals.com/barrier_noentry.asp?ReturnTo=&sid=&script=content.asp&cid=1301291&fid=&tid=&mid=&rid=

    http://oregonstate.rivals.com/barrier_noentry.asp?ReturnTo=&sid=&script=content.asp&cid=1300697&fid=&tid=&mid=&rid=

    Are these guys we’ve already been talking about in this post? I’m too cheap to pay for Rivals info.

    • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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      I’m guessing Alonzo Aguenu and Cowdin but wanted to be sure

  • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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    If the Beavs do end up with Darius Powe, something tells me he won’t be one of the players chosen to represent the team on media day. Read through his twitter page:

    http://twitter.com/powe10pow

  • StarcraftSquall says:
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    Breaking News: according to the Joe Beaver Show, and ESPN College Football Live – Kevin Sumlin has been OFFERED the job at UCLA. (Offered, not accepted.)

    • FrustratedBeav says:
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      Doubtful he accepts. He’ll take the ASU job or he’ll stay at Houston. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it’s the latter.

  • StarcraftSquall says:
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    Followup: Now it’s the Arizona State job being reported to have been offered. A little confused here.

  • sparkyd73 says:
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    How many big time players are left undeclared at this point in the process? Obviously the big turnover in the Pac12 coaching ranks adds a few new possibilities, but it seems that most of the top or even 2nd tier guys would be fairly locked in.

  • brownale9000 says:
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    San Juaquin Delta CC DT Josh Banks will be here this weekend as well. Scout.com says he holds offers from Iowa State, Washington and Oregon State.

  • OneEyedKing says:
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    Brandon Browner with a MONSTER game for the Seahawks.

    At least Pete Carol remembers our old studs. Best OSU corner I’ve ever seen. Great to see him finally in the NFL.

    • mckalk says:
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      I thought the NFL was going to let him rot in the CFL, you’re right Carroll knew what he could do.

  • 12 says:
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    The JC receiver has quite possibly the best film I have ever seen for a receiver. 2 years than high draft pick IMO. Look him up on hudl unbelievable

  • FedUpBeav says:
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    Colorado St. fired their underachieving athletic director. Get to work BDC!

  • mckalk says:
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    Mike Sherman fired at A&M after going 9-4 last year and 6-6 this year (those seasons would have added two more years to MR’s contract!)…..Mike Riley should be kissing BDC’s hands and feet everytime he sees him. Why do I hate the year 2019 so much????

  • OStateJake says:
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    OT but I thought I’d ask the great minds that frequent this site and see what you all think of my cousin’s tape from this year… He really wants to play DI ball but so far that hasn’t really panned out. I’m just curious what kind of potential he may or may not have..

    Honest opinions, I won’t get offended.

    • angry angry says:
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      He looks a notch below D1 level in speed if he wants to play WR/CB. He’d probably be better off moving to LB, FB, or safety, though 5″11/185 is small for those positions. I feel bad for the kid; he looks like a tweener. Probably D2. Sorry, not what you want to hear. Tell him to change positions and focus on intangibles like heart/passion/intelligence. Send film to smaller D1 schools. Plenty of good players come from D2, though. It’s not an end all.

      Ps. The Beaver he most reminds me of is Tyler Anderson. Tell him to bulk up to 215 and play FB?

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      Tell him to fire sportzviz.com. At 4:28 they show him getting burned as a CB.
      Otherwise I agree with Angry’s assessment.

      I often wonder why WR and RB films NEVER show their blocking abilities? Is it because they never block, or is it because they don’t think anyone wants to see a WR stick a down field block to spring a big run? I don’t know about you guys but I would think that is what recruiters will really look at to separate talent.

  • helmsley says:
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    Since this thread has ventured into player evaluation, I can’t find a film for Caleb Kidder – but he is Gatorade Montana POY – offensive lineman but played both sides of the ball, the Grizzlies got him, because that’s where he wanted to go but I doubt Oregon State even bothered since they’re “happy with who they have.”

    http://helenair.com/sports/high-school/football/quenched-capital-s-kidder-named-gatorade-football-poy/article_1a4563d8-1cb5-11e1-aca3-001871e3ce6c.html

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      Ant naked three point stances with cops involved?

      • helmsley says:
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        Don’t think so – I think/hope Tyler Thomas and his brother Connor are anomalies. Not fair to brush good kids with the Thomas’s bad behavior.

        • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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          Just giving you some grief. I was born in MT and have a ton of relatives in the state.

          • helmsley says:
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            No offense taken – your comment was amusing except it’s history isn’t. A couple of kids that could have gone places with their athletic talent but screwed up is never funny.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    From the Portland Tribune, a summary of recruiting shortcomings that contributed to past two years of performance:

    http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story_2nd.php?story_id=132268952093226600

    • JackBeav says:
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      Heard it all before… coach fails at one major aspect of his job which leads to coach failing at another major aspect of his job years down the road. Years ago our complaints were the poor recruiting, poor starts to the season and the seeming lack of attention to detail, let alone the lack of a killer’s instincts. Now that the recruiting is better, are we to just forgo all the other issues and suppose that a higher talent level which leads to 8 or 9 wins per year with any coaching staff is good enough to forget everything?

      Being a Beav fan is like loving mother Russia while it was the USSR. It’s still your country, but you have to play nice to all the zombies who buy into the state religion lest you get Stalinized.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    And from the G-T, Riley’s continued inability to see the weakness in his defensive roster:

    There are no defensive linemen in the class. The Beavers are not looking for them specifically this year, but will take the right one if he comes along.

    “We have quite a few guys we redshirted in that area,” Riley said. “We are not recruiting great numbers there. That would be a bonus if we get any.”

    Defensive back depth will be replenished with Kendall Hill (La Marque, Texas), Chris Miller (Pomona, Calif.), Caleb Saulo (Kent, Wash.) and Cleveland Wallace (San Jose, Calif.).

    Only one linebacker has committed in Joel Skotte from Bend’s Mountain View High. Riley wants to find more in the next two months.

    “The focus is around the board, but we have to focus on linebackers,” Riley said. “We don’t have enough in our program. Secondarily, cornerbacks and safeties are needed. We lost some guys there.”

    Read more: http://www.gazettetimes.com/sports/osu-football-coaches-focus-on-offensive-line-in-recruiting-class/article_3ef81d0c-1b97-11e1-b3ec-001cc4c03286.html#ixzz1fO8renyv

    Again, looking at the roster info I posted the other day, its impossible to look at host of light (ranging from 250-280 lbs), young, slow DT’s and expect that play is going to improve over Frahm. Sure, they’ll add some weight over the summer, but the fact that Riley isn’t saying “We need a couple of 300 pounders in the middle” is still difficult to accept.

    Yes, big, athletic DTs are wanted by everyone, but there’s a reason for that, and it just because the recruiting gets competitive, OSU cannot afford to NOT pursue these types of players. Its as if Riley would rather say “I didn’t want defensive tackles” instead of recognizing a weakness and taking a chance on losing out on the effective DT prospects.

    • matt b says:
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      There are really good fast, big linebackers/defensive ends (they play 3-4) at San Francisco CC. They also have a cb (superb playmaker) that is fast and athletic enough to play beyond NCAA. I do not know if they have grades or other issues but I bet that they will play D1 somewhere.

  • Fightingbeaver says:
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    It’s a sad day for Beavers, posters here have lost all their will to do anything about the situation with the football situation. The biggest problem is not recruitment, who we have as players or who we want to get. The problem is Mike Riley and his pathetic staff. Where other colleges in the Pac are pro-active, OSU is protecting this useless, has been coach who cares less about the team, fans or donors. He is in control, hand in hand with Bob D.

    Riley is just thumbing his nose at all his critics and anyone who really knows what the truth is. Mr. “nice guy” isn’t really a nice guy. If Riley cared about the football program he would at least see the light and change his coaching staff and the way his offense is drawn on paper. Why he insists on taking the OSU football program down to its knees, taking it back to the dark ages of losing, I don’t know. But Riley is not a nice guy, he is just playing out his aquired power.

    It is pathetic that we will see no change at all. It is almost like a Nazi nation under Bob D. and Riley.

  • Warren says:
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    Just an FYI, Chris Miller is now a 3-star and the 55th best safety in the country. Kendall Hill also just picked up an offer from Utah.

  • angry angry says:
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    The Beavers are hosting Josh Banks this weekend, and at 6″3 270 and a lifelong DT, they’re asking him to move outside to DE. The only school doing so. WTF…LET THE MAN PLAY DT.

    • Warren says:
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      That only means that we will be using the 3-4 a lot more.

      • JackBeav says:
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        That’s fairly good rationale, therefore, it must not be true.

        All kidding aside, if Banker adopts a 3-4 hybrid scheme, he buys time in my mind… and makes the D a ton better.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      It also means he’s probably too slow to be an effective DE, and that he’ll have to deal with learning “what OSU does” as well as a new position. And as a JC recruit he has less effective time to do so. Further, asking for a position switch might make OSU less attractive to him.

      Sounds like Riley enjoyed the up-the-middle game of Utah this past season and wants to see more of it.

    • brownale9000 says:
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      “Banks said every school recruiting him wants him at defensive end and he is fine with playing that at the next level.”

      • angry angry says:
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        “I have played defensive tackle my whole life growing up, but I can play either. Oregon State is the only team recruiting me at end.”

    • helmsley says:
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      What happens in a scenario (not fond of that word, but seems to fit) where Mr. Banks, says to MR & company – I’m not coming unless I can play DT?

      • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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        Riley has said he will let players play the position they want if they insist, but they still have to earn their starting spot. Most often if a player is buried in the depth chart at the position he loves, but could see immediate playing time at another position, he’ll move to that position to get to play.

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    Hi BN…. Did anyone else happen to watch Beaver Access on Root? Parker usually does this show with MR. This week he had Preece in for a season recap.

    Good news! This years horrible record had nothing to do with coaching. According to Preece and Parker the root causes of 3-9 were; injuries, inexperience, a small junior/senior class and no on-the-field leadership.

    Next year everything will be great! Quote from Preece… “bright possibilities”. I had the sense BDC was off-camera watching this scripted fantasy production roll out.

    The Beavs are at a critical point. Other PAC-12 schools are making bold moves. Bill Moss learned to ‘think big” at UO, hence Leach. It seems BDC is happy with the status quo.

    • JackBeav says:
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      A quick re-enactment for those who missed it:

    • mckalk says:
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      Predictable PR from the Beaver camp. Preece is an extreme Riley apologist.

      On another note, I am a little surprised at the national awareness of the Ryan Katz transfer and the buzz on message boards.

      A quick search and Pitt fans are discussing him because Todd Graham had a quote about being open to fifth year transfer QB’s to help the program next year.

      Akron fans want him because I guess they have awful QB’s, of course the Zipsters are also speculating about Jim Tressel becoming their HC, so they may live in fantasy land.

      Then there is also the Kentucky scenario that was previously mentioned with whatever the family ties are.

      It will be interesting to see where he ends up. I’m not sure he is as talented as some of these guys think, but we will see. You’d think some of them would venture our way and get an opinion or two.

    • helmsley says:
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      Moos learned to “think big” at UO but he cut his AD teeth at the University of Montana.

  • JackBeav says:
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    And the big ACK!! for yesterday?

    It only takes two sentences to get there.
    http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/12/01/2635008/preview-central-section-football.html

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Wow. Wonder who’ll win that recruiting battle?

    • HopefulBeav says:
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      We’ve got to hope he would rather have the chance to play right away instead of having to spend at least two or three years battling for playing time in the Oregon back field.

      • JackBeav says:
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        You mean we have to hope he buys the Byron Marshall hype and thinks the way you just outlined. He’s better than anyone they will have on the roster next year at that position.

        • HopefulBeav says:
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          Basically, yes. What else do OSU coaches tell him to try to edge out Oregon? Also, Barner will be back next year (he’s only a Jr. right?) and they have DAT who will most likely be the new featured offensive back for the Ducks.

      • Warren says:
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        Yeah really. Not to mention there is a good chance DJ foster will end up a duck.

      • ObjCritic says:
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        I dunno, James/Barner/Thomas seem to have a good time. I don’t know why that wouldn’t be attractive to him.

    • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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      Quick! somebody get us his twitter and facebook pages so we can send him some love. If our coaches won’t do the recruiting, maybe us fans can. Let him know he’ll be the featured back for 4 years, never playing backup to anybody.

    • ean says:
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      they have Barner, Tra Carson, Byron Marshal, DAT and potentially DJ Foster…. Oregon probably has the edge but I think we have plenty of PT to sell him and crummy enough back-ups that he could be a feature back at OSU.

  • JackBeav says:
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    Oh crap!

    I don’t know why this just popped into my head, but I just remembered that Rahmel Dockery will be a red shirt frosh for Mike Leach’s first year on the Palouse. I guess we just hope Marquess Wilson leaves after winning the Biletnikoff Trophy next year.

  • mckalk says:
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    Here’s something I thought about as a Leach negative. None of this QB’s have done shit in the NFL, right? They are system QB’s. I guess potential recruits are ok with that or maybe Leach doesn’t need the superstar to drive his offense. Just seems like a bit of letdown that his guys put up huge numbers and end up on practice squads, the CFL or the Arena league. Hey, I am looking at anything to burst Wazzu’s bubble!

    • JackBeav says:
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      Good thing he’s only coaching Wazzu. He’s not there to put anyone in the NFL. He’s there to win NCAA games. Gunslingers are easy to find. Just ask our current WR coach. Prototypical NFL QB’s have other options.

      • matt b says:
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        Except that the protypical model may be changing. Cam Newton or Andy Dalton or Tebow are not your prototypical guys. Aaron Rodgers was branded as a system clone. Drew Brees is also not exactly a poster boy for the NFL model. How about looking for playmakers and winners?

        • mckalk says:
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          I am being a bit sarcastic with all the love being thrown Leach’s way. You would think he was the second coming of Bear Bryant.

        • ObjCritic says:
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          Rodgers had the rare benefit of getting development time. Had he been drafted higher and cost more, he might have been pushed in too soon.

          The early success of Newton was surprising to me. I wouldn’t have been surprised to see effective scrambling on a noncompetitive team, but the passing yardage and composure was shocking.

          Dalton was not a surprise to me because I think he was smart, efficient, and matured by his time at TCU. I thought Seattle should have taken Dalton in the draft.

          Often, its not just the player’s college experience, but importantly the context in which they arrive in the NFL.

          If I were a *** QB (and that’s a big IF), I think Leach would be a blast to play for. The 4 -5 stars are likely to go to bigger programs with more exposure, but Leach will not have trouble recruiting effective college QB’s.

          • mckalk says:
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            Damn it, stop making sense. I plan on going to all of Wazzu’s home games in 2013 and instead of a John 3:16 banner, I will hold up photos of Cumbie, Symon, Kingsberry asking “where are these guys now”. If BDC is not going to bring the Beav program up, then I guess I am going to have to tear down other programs in the P-12! Everyone has an achilles heel.

        • JackBeav says:
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          I’m not sure what you’re arguing here.

          Dalton is a prototypical NFL QB who I expected to do well. Not as well as he didhis rookie year, but it doesn’t shock me.

          Newton has the measurables to succeed at that level, and nobody has a solid scouting report on him. Give pro DC’s an off season to watch his film, and he will bust unless he has the capacity to learn and evolve. I personally think he will follow the same career path that Vince Young did. His irrational decisions and reliance on his athletic abilities will only make his habits a mystery for one season.

          I don’t know what to think of Tebow. I love the guy’s heart. And I like that he’s just a RB in the QB position doing what he does. But I fear some scouting will shut him down quickly. He does have the capacity to evolve mentally, so he might stand a chance. But he is so limited as a true QB that he might not get the chance to do so.

          Anyone who bet against Brees out of college was just stupid. Anyone who bet against him when the Chargers drafted Rivers was just stupid.

          And for that reason, I hope the Seahawks passed on QB’s last year because they’re going to take Moore in this year’s draft. Anyone who bets against that kid is as stupid as anyone who passed on him for the NCAA level.

          • ObjCritic says:
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            Carrol is too much of a “measurables” guy to take Moore isn’t he?

          • JackBeav says:
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            That depends. If wins are how you measure a QB, Moore’s a lock.

            How cool would it be if a team like Oakland ended up with Moore? They wouldn’t know what to do with themselves. They’ve been stockpiling talent for years with none at the QB position. The one chance they had to get a real QB, they went for codeine head instead. I could see that failure coming from a mile away.

            Put the ball in Moore’s hands, and then watch as all those play-makers we thought were now busts turn into superstars.

          • ObjCritic says:
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            Carroll likes physical measurements -height, weight, speed. At USC, he said they recruited kids they thought were NFL prospects. Look at his free agent additions, tall WR’s, tall physical QB (not necessarily accurate). I think he passes on Moore because of height and arm strength.

          • matt b says:
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            Petey (as he was called as a preteen/teenager) Carroll had the luxury at USC of unlimited resources and an ability to compete in recruitment with anyone and everyone. He could get all prospects and no suspects. But that is not his normal nature and not who he has used at Seattle. Justin Forsett is small and slow. Mike Williams is tall and slow. Tavares Jackson is very athletic but not your ***** recruit. He will churn and burn thru a lot of guys until he finds the right parts.

          • matt b says:
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            Dalton went to TCU as a running qb with some throwing ability. Your initial comments had to do with recruiting to colleges. Some of the guys I mentioned may have developed into pro prospects but could not be so described out of high school, when they were being categorized and recruited. My point is that success comes in all kinds of packages, many different sizes and shapes. Mike Belotti was a tight end that played qb (one game) in the first outright championship win for UC Davis when the all america and future nfl qb got hurt. Collin Klein at Kansas State is a converted wide receiver. The business of pigeon holing the qb’s as high school debutantes or part of the unwashed masses is an inexact science at best. To your other point about Leach not caring about being a feeder to the NFL…Amen. Who cares and why should this be important or a measuring stick for the D1 level success?

          • mckalk says:
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            It’s obvious Leach doesn’t care, but you can bet in the future there will be QB recruiting battles with Wazzu. I think it is fair point to mention that Riley’s system might be better suited for some QB’s and should be a selling point, that is if MR is still around. You can’t tell me that if I am good enough to start for a D-1 team and we have a pass oriented offense that I don’t have NFL dreams.

          • JackBeav says:
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            My point wasn’t so much about recruiting TO the NCAA level or developing TO the NFL level as it was that Leach doesn’t care about either. He’s a system guy who will throw the ball boy out there if he thinks the kid will trust the system… and he’ll win doing it.

      • mckalk says:
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        But don’t kids who start for BCS teams have NFL aspirations? Wazzu actually had a decent NFL QB tradition. Work with me here Jack, I don’t want Leach kicking the Beavs asses in two years! Maybe there are QB’s out there who are so limited that they can’t make Air Raid work!

  • sparkyd73 says:
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    For the guys on here that are good at talent evaluation, will Isaac Seumalo start as a freshman? Are there any of our other recruits right now that jump out as likely major contributors?

    I’m a bit more optimistic than many on here about our OL, I think that adding a couple of the hurt guys and subtracting the human illegal motion machine makes this a better OL and with 1 or 2 additional guys in the rotation could make a significant difference (of course some of that may be moot if Langsdorf is calling the plays).

    • ean says:
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      I am not a great talent evaluator but my guess is they redshirt him. He is listed at 280 so a year of just weights could do wonders for the guy. Plus we have Enger and Andrews at OG. Not sure what to think of Beaton or Addie but I imagine they are decent enough to justify keeping Suemalo’s RS in tact should Andrews or Enger go down. Of course the other two variables is if they decide to switch Phillip to OG and/or Enger to OT. It will be very interesting to see what happens on the OL. I hope the competition is open and honest though… something that it seems like it hasn’t been in the past. Also of complete wildcard is Jackson who has the body to dominate but whom I have seen little of.

      • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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        I watched Isaac Seumalo in person twice (once this year, once last year) when his team (Corvallis HS) played my son’s team (Crescent Valley HS). Seumalo looked very good on both sides of the ball. I was most impressed with his pass-blocking technique and effectiveness.

        There will probably be pressure to use Seumalo next year to help shore-up the OL. Seumalo could probably do a good job pass-blocking for OSU as a true freshman next year (his technique is that good). But it would be better, long-term, for Seumalo to red-shirt next year and add strength and bulk, especially for run-blocking.

        • ean says:
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          better for him long term too… I think being a coaches son will factor in. Beavers will look out for his best interests. Plus if Enger and Andrews stay at OG we are okay there next year.

        • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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          Part of the reason he wanted to come here was to play a year with his brother, plus, he spent the past summer observing every Beaver practice. I think they will play him, for better or worse.

    • matt b says:
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      The human “illegal motion machine” was a converted rt that is not very quick. Since the de on his side is generally the speed rusher, and since the qb pocket and count is so predictable, he was in a no win situation. I am not trying to justify because he was constantly overmatched. But good coaching would have split him out a bit further and kept him in a two point stance. Good coaching would have used the te, hback or fullback to chip on the edge. Good coaching would have practiced changes in the count during each week so that he did not have to jump in order to catch ( in his case catch and release) the de as he blew by.

  • Warren says:
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    I’ll say this: Our Ol should be exponentially better just based on the fact that Remmers is gone. i’d be hard pressed to find a worse OT than him.

    • matt b says:
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      You would be wrong on both counts. He may be close to the worst, but he has plenty of company. (Ask Jeff Tuel or Connor Halliday or Tyler Hansen about this) Until OSU properly evaluates existing/recruited talent and matches the strengths/weakness against the scheme and talent of the opponent, there will be not exponential improvement.

      • helmsley says:
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        That’s too detailed – Oregon State doesn’t do details. Is it possible that a good recruit/high school player who was previously coached in details gets sloppy in the OSU system?

        • matt b says:
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          Could be an issue but not so much. It’s more that OSU is so rigid in its approach to football that it tries to be a big suv in an era of $5/gas. GM was rigid in its approach to car/tuck manufacture in a changing world. Where the details do come in is again the example of GM. GM thought that if you slap on the label cadillac or suburban that the details didn’t matter. OSU sells its ability to produce pro prospects in a pro system. Both the system or product and the details go hand in hand. Each system must evolve or adapt over time in nature or be pushed to extinction. And each organism must refine its tools and strategies constantly as it competes with other organisms for survival. Its less a question of $$ resources or 4/5 star recruits than deploying resources effectively to be sustainable.

      • Warren says:
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        You’re basically saying the guys we have now are worse than Remmers, which is not true.

        • matt b says:
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          Not my intention to say they are worse or better. I hope that they will be better. There is evidence that when Phillips plays on two healthy legs (freshman year only) he can be decent. Kelly, Enger, and Andrews will be Kelly, Enger and Andrews perhaps slightly stronger and more healthy. Lineman number 5 don’t know. So based on makeup, the line will be similar to this year. The opposition does not live in a time capsule and will grow or heal just like the Beavers. The good news is that there will be competition next year because the Beavers will have numbers. If new guys can play and contribute now, do not waste a redshirt. This card is played by the coaches like it was a status symbol. “Our system is so sophisticated that it takes 2 years to learn”. That is junk science, and redshirting or gray shirting most of a recruiting class is an admission that you cannot compete unless the average age of your players is older than the opposition. It is an insult to the intelligence of your recruits by implying they are not smart enough to contribute in the first year.

        • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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          “…Our Ol should be exponentially better just based on the fact that Remmers is gone…..”

          How do you know that? Saying it another way: What are you basing your evaluation on?

          • matt b says:
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            Let’s first find a benchmark that we can agree to. Let’s find or name five complex, sophisticated football teams (maybe Boise State could be one) and then compare 3-4 years of recruiting/playing cycles. Let’s compare depth and compare use of freshmen, redshirts and grayshirts. Let’s also look at 5 less sophisticated teams (maybe Nebraska could be one since they have used redshirts to gain advantage since the early 70’s). Then lets compare to OSU. Are the Beavers using the redshirts because the system is so complex or are they using it like Nebraska for gain of advantage by adding weight and strength to out power opponents or catch up to the size and strength of opponents? I do not have the data and do not really know for sure. I do know that the defense my team played in the 70’s had at least a dozen different pass coverages and many more options when lb responsibilities and run force coverage were figured in. I believe our defense was more complex than the defense of the Beavers today. Not better necessarily but more complex.

          • JackBeav says:
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            That’s not what NU’s redshirt tradition was. They were a power, and before scholarship limits they would hoard players and promise ships to players who would have started elsewhere. Their walk-ons that matured in Osborne’s program would have been three and four star prospects.

          • matt b says:
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            I knew Bill Startzer, de from the Nebraska Orange Bowl team with Frank Solich. He would beg to differ with you.

          • JackBeav says:
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            Ok… there’s a little hyperbole.

            But they didn’t start the tradition until the NCAA first restricted scholarships in the early 70’s and, coincidentally, Tom Osborne became coach. And the tradition has really died out (in terms of finding anyone other programs don’t also redshirt… K, P, FB, etc…) since the late 90’s when roster sizes were limited.

            They specialized in two things for the redshirt tradition:
            1. They would offer a preferred walk-on spot to in-state players they knew were locks for NU because it was their dream school. This still happens everywhere in football and hoops. Kids just want to go to their dream school, and they will shun dozens of offers to be a walk-on. Sometimes a coach knows this and pads his roster. Osborne was very good at knowing.
            2. They would bring on highly rated prospects who were the younger siblings of previous stars at NU. Since the older sibling was (or would soon be) getting a large paycheck from the NFL, tuition could be afforded… or no questions were asked when it was paid.

          • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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            Hi Matt B – – – – – Now modified to @Matt B

            Actually my reply was to a post by Warren. Sorry I didn’t specify who I was replying to. From now on instead of including a quote from their post in my message I’m going to put “@person’s name” in my message.

            Fwiw, I can’t recall a post of yours where I’ve disagreed with what you were saying. In fact I enjoy reading what you have to say.

  • angry angry says:
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    Nice, Chris Brown has Beavs and Ducks as his two finalists. Ducks have a ton of RB and we need one…I like the odds.

    http://www.fresnobee.com/2011/12/01/2635008/preview-central-section-football.html

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      I don’t. We always lose those battles in recent years. Hope you are right!

  • FedUpBeav says:
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    We need Brown bad. Either Riley gets him and we have a good shot at a more balanced offense or Riley’s days may be numbered. I sincerely suggest he put everything into landing “Downtown” Brown. Looks like a perfect fit for the Oregon State system. Would love to have him on board!

    • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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      Until OSU has an OL that’s worth a spit the RB is going to have to do it on his own. Not an environment I’d want to play in if I were a RB.

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      Agree. Current backs are average at best.

  • brownale9000 says:
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    Cliff Kirkpatrick says we have 5 spots left. (Though if we over sign, I’m sure there are at least a couple of guys we could greyshirt without losing them.)

    What’s your guess as to who we land?

    http://bit.ly/vVbVDn

  • Beaver Byte says:
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    OT: Louisville telling recruits they are Big 12 bound.

    http://www.kitchenkc.com/2011/11/louisville-telling-football-recruits-it.html

  • CraigBeav says:
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    Alright, let’s go UCLA!!!! Angry, maybe give us a championship game thread?

  • CraigBeav says:
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    No fly over, huh? Bush league

  • angry angry says:
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    For the championship game use the Chat feature (located on the right)–it’s perfect for things like this.

  • Beav11 says:
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    May have missed it, but what are the thoughts on Jonavaughn Williams (visiting in a couple weeks)?

    Jr. Highlights: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3uMPrTb1as

    Seems much better as DB (second 1/2 of the video).

    Thoughts?

  • beavers4life says:
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    So I think we should come up with a marketing, identity, and what changes should be made for next years football team threads.

    I have a lot I’d like to add towards the identity thread.

  • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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    Washington hoops lost to Nevada tonight 76-73 at Nevada. Also, Vanderbilt only loses by 2 to #6 Louisville. That makes our 2 pt loss to Vandy look like a positive, if a loss can be positive. Oregon State, Stanford, CAL and Oregon are the only 1 loss teams in the conference. Oregon won’t be able to hang on and think they’ll lose to BYU tomorrow. If Beavs get past Montana, I’m thinking they’ll be in good shape to have the best record in the Pac going into conference play since CAL and Stanford play a tougher remaining non-con schedule.

  • FatDog says:
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    IF we win against MT the expectation for a top 25 ranking will increase. I hope we stay out of the rankings as long as possible (we should be under the radar based on past seasons) so we don’t end up with a bull’s eye on our backs too early in the season. This team doesn’t need anything messing with its head. A successful progression on the DL is good.

    • JackBeav says:
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      I would tend to agree… slightly. I don’t think anything is going to change the psyche of our team going forward. They know wins and losses come and go. But they are just crazed dogs on the court. I would like to see them go into Pac play 11-1 but still unranked not for our own attitudes, but for the attitudes opponents in the first couple weeks might bring… that condescending attitude perennial winners like UCLA or UA carry with them… or that weird, ignorant, fake hoops arrogance that UW or Nikegon fans carry due to a couple years of recent moderate success.

      It’s not going to happen, though. We will win out in the non-con, and we will be ranked in the top 25 going into Pac play.

      And the attitude we Beavs fans need to take is the same as the team’s attitude. It’s ODAAT, and we will win if we work hard enough and do it right.

      Practice makes perfect, and I can get used to the practice of winning.

      12:15
      Arky at UConn
      Zags at Illini

      1:30
      Marquette at Wiscy
      Texas at UCLA

      Nikegon at BYU at 2:00

      Portland at St Louis at 5:00

      Oh… and UNC at UK in five minutes.

      Not much else to see today in the rousing hoops competition. If the other Pac teams lose their games, Pac RPI will just get moved down another spot.

      Yeesh!

      • JackBeav says:
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        Terrance Jones gets what the announcer called a “big boy dunk” off of a big boy walk. He took the ball at the half post, and he SLOWLY switched pivots until he was about six feet toward the corner. Williams was up and screaming at the ref immediately, and the dude covering Jones knew something was screwy, so he just stood still while Jones drove and dunked.

        i just don’t get how simple fundamentals are missed by refs when they are right in front of them. It’s why I can’t watch Nikegon football that much anymore. I can’t stand that obvious holds and other rule violations are just ignored. Why don’t opposing coaches just stop games and spend a whole timeout screaming at the refs when something like this happens?

        • beavers4life says:
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          I completely agree! The championship game last night, there were at LEAST 3 PI’s that weren’t called on PKU(Phil Knight University). I also say a few holds as well, but I was a bit out of it last night to notice too much. I think the refs “ignore” a lot of it cause they buy into the “fast play” that BS Chipster sold to the college football world. To be honest, the ducks aren’t fast, they just hide their RB/QB in the backfield while their OL hold their opponents at the line of scrimmage. I don’t know why the Pac-12 refs are just so bad. They should be consistent in every game, but their not. Grant it the ducks were penalized for over 100 yards last night.

          • mckalk says:
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            I actually thought the Ducks got caught more than usual last night and I wonder if it was because of the game being on a national stage? I agree though, it seems like holds, blocks in the backs and other crap are missed while Chip keeps screaming for the refs to place the ball and start play. I really hope Wiscy beats Sparty and then pounds the living shit out of the Ducks at least one coach with a Beav connection will have a victory if that can happen.

          • WFO WFO says:
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            Let’s not forget Dion Jordan lowering his helmet and earholing Prince from his blind side. Even the announcers thought it should have been flagged.

          • JackBeav says:
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            That was a cheap shot.

      • mckalk says:
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        I’m interested in the Texas/UCLA match-up. I was listening to a basketball show on SIRIUS yesterday and I know it’s a little of the “pot calling the kettle” syndrome, but Bruce Pearl felt like Ben has peaked at UCLA and has let his arrogance get in the way of decision making. I don’t know how much on an “insider” Pearl is anymore, but apparently the Nelson situaton was really mishandled in a desperate attempt to put wins over team.

    • helmsley says:
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      I am more concerned about Wayne Tinkle vs. Craig Robinson than I am the Beavs vs the Griz.

      • JackBeav says:
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        If Qvale was still there, i would give the Griz 40-1 odds. Without, I give them 75-1 odds.

        The game always has to be played. A 200-1 favorite can lose if they never show up to play. The Beavs are not in that state of mind right now. Not only are practices clicking, but finals are breezing by with ease. These boys are in a zone.

        Now we just need to see that zone extend beyond 15 feet. How scary would this edition of the Beavs be if they could can some treys with consistency?

        • waggle says:
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          It is time for Stark to find his stroke. Robinson was spot on by saying that Starks still had the green light and to keep shooting. Starks biggest problem may be mental and that kind of support from the coach may loosen him up.

  • beavers4life says:
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    I’m always thinking about OSU football because I love football and miss playing it and have contemplated coaching, and I might just do that with a 5th/6th grade team next year. So my thinking has got me to this point:

    Why hasn’t Riley just come out and say that we’re in a rebuilding year for the next 2 years?

    1) Riley doesn’t want to tell recruits that he’s recruiting players to rebuild. No recruit wants to play for a rebuilding team.

    2) Riley feels that if he doesn’t tell the fan base that we’re in a rebuilding year, he won’t lose out on as much donated money, but the flip side is, would he get MORE donations by just coming out and saying, we’re rebuilding this team for this past season and the next season as well?

    3) By Riley recruiting DB’s, WR’s, and LB’s is he rebuilding for depth? Then is he going to go after OL/DL and a good RB for the 2013 class so then by the 2014 season? By then we’ll have a red shirt junior QB in Mannion, Junior WR’s, maybe some 4-5* OL/DL which just signed in the 2013 class who can start as true freshman, and then by 2015, Mannion’s senior year, he’ll be lights out. (Dream of the future of course.)

    4) Or is Riley feeling that the defense needs faster depth in the DB’s/LB’s more so than the OL/DL? Cause we’ll have Justin Addie, Michael Phillipp, who else at OL? Also, I think Banker might be open to using a 3-4-4 defense next season in certain situations rather than straight up 4-3-4. I’d like to see a 3-3-5 at some point, so maybe that’s a possibility of where Banker is going with the current recruiting.

    • mckalk says:
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      Solid programs don’t rebuild anymore. Riley hasn’t had to rebuild, he has been able to reload or develop to meet the minimum standard in the recent past. The last two years, his teams have lost to opponents with equal or less talent due to all the things that go into coaching, motivation and preparation.

      All things being equal, many coaches would have coaxed 6-6 out of this years team. “Rebuilding” would point to mistakes in the recent past that MR should be held accoutable for. He is counting on enough progress next year to squeak out a minor bowl bid and quell the discontent.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Interesting read from the seattle times. This guy’s nearly as dynamic as Riley:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/cougars/2016920380_leach04.html

    • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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      How much fun would it be to have Leach at OSU…. if only.

    • mxkalk says:
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      What’s with that photo, looks like Leach is in heaven of something? He will definitely add character to the P-12. I do think the Leach “mancrush” everyone has will wear off, unless he can find a defense. Wazzu’s problem is not offense, that defense gave up how many points to the Beavs???

      • angry angry says:
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        “mancrush will wear off”

        I was thinking that myself, but right now there’s hype in Pullman. He’s a good gamble for a small market, even if it doesn’t work out.

        • mckalk says:
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          Oh, I agree. If I was Wazzu you really have to take that bet and yes it would be fun if OSU has someone like him. In the end, though I chuckle because very few articles talk about the defense and TTU’s pretty average OOC schedule through the years. I also keep in mind that some of the Red Raiders damage was done when Nebraska was in free fall and KSU was post Snyder. I think of Leach as a BCS June Jones.

  • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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    Hey Gang, what is your take on this? Could we actually be better next year then we thought?

    http://www.gazettetimes.com/sports/osu-football-the-lineup-will-look-different-next-season/article_80dd6514-1b93-11e1-a7ef-001cc4c03286.html

    • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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      “…Could we actually be better next year then we thought?…”

      Could be then again…….

      “…There’s a feeling that much of the same team returns so not much can improve, but that’s not the case with players coming back off injury, the redshirt players available and time in the weight room….”

      That about sums it up for me. OSU has returning OL players who could not run block and DTs who could not stop the run and that doesn’t give me a lot of warm feelings. Then there’s the pass blocking and the play of the LBs which also doesn’t give me a lot of confidence.

      Here’s hoping I’m proven wrong re my concerns. In the mean time I’m going to have to make a run to WAL-MART and see if I can find some orange colored glasses.

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        I agree. You stole my response post.
        I wonder about the OL morale this season. When I played OL in HS we loved run blocking because we got to deliver the punishment instead of absorbing it. With the beavs being so bad this year at run blocking and being yelled at by coach Cav I wonder if they eventually just tune out and start going through the motions.

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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    Did Leach already win his first ‘recruit’?
    http://washingtonstate.scout.com/2/1135344.html

    MIKE LEACH may already have won his first “recruiting” battle. The Arizona Daily Star reports that David Emerick, Arizona’s recruiting coordinator under Mike Stoops for the last year two years and someone expected to be retained by new Cat coach Rich Rodriquez, is now believed headed to Washington State. It’s no surprise given his long history with Leach.

    Emerick, 32, spent six seasons with Leach at Texas Tech, the last two as Leach’s “chief of staff,” a title not normally found on football coaching lists but believed to be somewhat akin to off-field assistant head coach.
    ————

    snip
    NOTABLE:
    Emerick isn’t the only member of Stoops’ staff at Arizona with serious ties to Leach. Robert Anae spent five seasons, from 2000-04, as offensive line coach for Leach at Texas Tech before moving on to become offensive coordinator at BYU for six seasons; Seth Littrell, Stoops’ OC, was Leach’s running backs coach from 2005-08; and Arizona receivers coach Dave Nichol was at Texas Tech from 2000-05 as a student coach and graduate assistant. Anae joined Stoops’ staff at Ariz
    snip

  • TooAngryBeav says:
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    Hey Angry, The recruits are reading your posts too. The are reconsidering coming to Corvallis. Do you consider that you may be doing more harm in trying help in such a negative way. Just thinking out loud. Go Beavs

    • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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      Are you suggesting that folks lie and pretend that everything’s O.K.?

      Considering the direction Riley has this team headed I can understand why they’d reconsider their commitment to OSU. Can’t see it getting much better until he’s gone.

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      He’s got a point Angry. Better change the name to Gumdrops & Lollipops.
      Sorry Tooangrybeav, I think I understand your point but this is big boy football. I’d rather the curtain be drawn back to reveal the truth than for us fans to intentionally keep up a charade of optimism.

    • JackBeav says:
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      Whoa! You just reminded me of something I wanted to touch on regarding recruits.

      What if they were paying attention to OSU and watched us play this past year?

      That may be doing more harm in trying help in such a negative way… or whatever that means.

      Just continuing the non-thoughts out loud.

      I guess “Go Beavs!” is the call of the cult… so… Go Beavs!

      Yay us?

  • TooAngryBeav says:
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    No worries boys, I understand and I agree about the changes. I just don’t want to lose recruits that could actually help the situation. There are so many coaching changes that maybe OS should jump on board…2019 really.

  • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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    Can anybody with Beaverblitz access tell us the gist of what these articles say regarding recent recruit visits? thanks

    http://oregonstate.rivals.com/barrier_noentry.asp?ReturnTo=&sid=&script=content.asp&cid=1302898&fid=&tid=&mid=&rid=

    http://oregonstate.rivals.com/barrier_noentry.asp?ReturnTo=&sid=&script=content.asp&cid=1302876&fid=&tid=&mid=&rid=

    • ObjCritic says:
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      I wouldn’t worry too much about what those sites report. Somebody here will have closer, more informed insight to the visits.

  • matt b says:
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    Kendall Hill can play and he will be very good. He tracks balls and plays better in the air than any OSU safety in years. Joel Skotte will be in the lb rotation as a freshman and has a chance to have post season honors during his career. He plays with great enthusiasm and is quick to diagnose. Gavin Andrews can start right now for OSU, though we will have to see a bit more of his pass blocking skills. Isaac can and should play a lot of downs next year. His technique is already college level, advanced college level. Josh Mitchell looks quite good as a dt/de. Obviously, Chris Brown will play from the get go. There are other very good recruits, some of which may need a year of redshirt seasoning. But overall the class is good and fans should not fixate on the amount of stars. Counting stars is a poor way to do business.

  • matt b says:
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    thanks

  • JC Butkus says:
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    Hey Angry,

    The Black Mamba Stopper just committed to Riley. Sources tell me that Riley flew in to St. George, Utah this morning to chase down Cade Cowdin at his family home, and he committed to be a Beaver. He will transfer immediately and be there for Spring Ball. I guess we didn’t scare him off and he is up to the challenge. I like him already. Go Beavs!

    • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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      you need to catch up on your reading, Angry already posted his commitment in a newer blog topic’s comments. Where did you get Black Mamba Stopper from?

      • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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        If he is the Black Mamba Stopper, should we call him the Honey Badger? “Honey Badger doesn’t care….He doesn’t give a shit”

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