23.Sep.2014 Basking in Reflective Glory

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As many of you know, I have been trying to figure out why I feel so disgusting when watching sports as opposed to playing them. While researching this I came across this article entitled “Basking in Reflective Glory” (Duck fans) written in 1976 and another called “The Psychology of Sports Fans” which describes how they “Cut off Reflective Failure” (Beaver fans).

Both phenomena are equally pathetic. On Twitter, I see Duck fans acting belligerent and proud, as if they themselves are ranked #2, played in the Rose Bowl, they’re shooting for the Heisman, etc. In reality all they have done is sit on a couch and chosen to associate themselves with other people who are out there doing those things. If you remember in the past, I wrote that using words like “we” when describing the Beavers felt wrong. I made a push to write “they”. Well the second article mentions this:

In contrast, “CORFing” means that you “Cut Off Reflected Failure.” Your team was trounced and now you want to distance yourself from them and their disgrace as much as possible. It’s not “we,” who lost, it’s “they.” The last thing a CORFer wants to wear on the day following the team’s loss are hats or shirts with the team’s logo. This is the test of the true vs. fickle fan. It’s the CORFers who are the fickle fans. Their identification with them rises and falls with the box scores. True fans, in contrast, will don jerseys, hats, and almost any item with the team logo no matter how poorly their team performs. True fans may feel dejected, but their heroes remain their heroes, even if somewhat tarnished by defeat.

This also explains why many of us on AB hate the old guard. They are the “true fans” who stick with a group of “heroes”, while we are the “fickle fans” who want to distance from the disgrace. I’d rather be the latter because it’s only approving of and rewarding a high standard. I’d say we are not so much fickle as we have high standards for all things in life. Do you find that true in your day to day life? I do.

Anyway, I was happy to finally understand why I feel disgusting watching sports: it is because I’m not out there doing.  On Saturday my girlfriend and I cycled to a local field and threw the football around (she can sling it about 15 yards!). Not a single person watched us, there was no glory, yet it was more rewarding than coming home to watch the Beavers beat SDSU.

The links are posted above, and I suggest everyone read both articles. The one written in 1976 is especially fascinating and excellent. This morning I made fun of some Ducks on Twitter for basking in reflective glory. I am hoping this catches on because it’s really the best insult as it highlights how pathetic this all is.

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  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    Both of those articles are taught in psychology classes at OSU. (I was a psych minor)
    My buddy and I still joke to this day about the whole “we” vs. “they” phenomena when we talk to other fans about their teams through their ups and downs. It really holds true.

    • angry angry says:
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      Cool.
      I have never taken a psychology course in my life so this is new to me.

      • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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        It was funny because the class they were taught in was taught by a UNC alum, Prof. Edwards. He was a HUGE Tarheel fan and often put Tarheel related bonus questions in his quizzes. Who knew my knowledge of Brad Daugherty would earn me bonus points some day? Edwards was pretty funny in that he taught about basking in reflective glory, but he also was an example of it.

        • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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          I didn’t read the articles yet, but it seems like good psychology stuff. I would suggest suspending judgment when you see others engaging in it, and instead view it as a manifestation of our evolutionary need for aggression, but needing to be controlled and contained in a civilized society. Sports always contain the important elements of loyalty and the human need to feel an identity connected to a group.

          Also leave room for the fan who has high expectations, but also a high level of loyalty to the team. They wear the hats and hang the flag even when their team is sucking! And they’re not happy about it!

          • Jack says:
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            Yeah… I don’t quite get why the “old guard” would be considered the true fans in this analogy. I haven’t exactly seen them piling into Gill for hoops games over the past five years. And those five years were a better five years than we’ve had since the late 80’s.

            I also remember some football games where the announced attendance of some 30-or-so-K looked a lot more like a couple hundred of us, especially later in the games.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    I don’t feel disgusting the few times I watch a game, I just think its important to be vigilant and not live vicariously through others.

    I have had experiences with Duck fans who are WAY more into college football than am I. When OSU would win, I would enjoy it, but wouldn’t gloat. When OSU lost, I didn’t feel like I lost. I never say “we,” I say “they.” When I hear people say “we” I sometimes ask, “What are you, the team water boy?!?” or something like that.

    UO fans have increased in recent years and really enjoy the “reflective” value immensely. Though the ones I know have stopped gloating about CW victories because it’s infrequently a contest and after the last 6 years the difference between the UO and OSU football programs is vast (including in many bad ways that diehard fans don’t want to critically acknowledge).

    Sports are not just contests, they’re entertainment that produce great revenue. That role has led to negative influence from networks and administrators to manage the contest for entertainment outcomes instead of having true contests which have their own potential to entertain.

    To me, entertainment is just a temporary distraction. A beaver win or loss doesn’t affect me more than a good or bad movie; either is a distraction and I hope its greater than the opportunity cost of time spent doing something else. I don’t trust Riley et al to provide a well played contest, so I don’t invest a lot of time watching them.

    Hell, I enjoy this site and a number of posters here more than I do the actual game itself…here I’m guaranteed some laughs, info, and insight.

    • angry angry says:
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      Well said.
      I will still watch every Beaver game, but just a few years ago I used to watch NCAA football from when I woke until I went to bed. I’d feel so disgusting afterward, like a bad hangover. I think it was due to all the things talked about in these articles combined with wasting a day watching other people rather than doing something. Back then it was more subconscious. It took observing Duck/Beaver fans and Beav/Beav fans (i.e. Cassandras vs Pollys) to really have it sink in.

      • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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        There is an interesting difference when you’re a fan of a sport you also ‘do’. I’m a professional cycling fan, and I also ride daily and do an occasional race. There’s something about being able to relate to what’s going on the screen since you have, and do, experience a similar thing (albeit at a lower level). I also played football in grades 5-12, so I think this is a factor in being a football fan. And football fans that never played can come across as misguided sometimes.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    I know before I quit drinking I lived and died with each win or loss. I would go to the games and yell my throat hoarse because I thought it could help decide the game. I felt apart of the team, doing my part to “earn” the victory.

    Now that I am sober, I don’t spend as much time celebrating a win or pissing about a loss (see what I did there?). I still yell at the games and I curse at the tv and get nervous during the games, but I am able to let go of the outcome much easier.

    I really root for the team now to win, but I also feel much more objective when I look at the teams. I try not to engage with Duck friends as they are watching their games, because I really don’t want to see them win, but at the same time it doesn’t kill me if they do, I try to treat them just like any other pac12 foe.

  • Jack says:
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    I know where you’re going. But your argument is incomplete.

    I choose for they to be we because we share a commonality beyond sport. I want they to know that they are we because of that, not in spite of that. I think that is the only right and healthy way to view us.

    • funburglar says:
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      U.S. Geological Survey just reported a 5.6 magnitude earthquake outside Corvallis caused by a thousand pairs of eyes rolling back in their heads.

    • Karl Marx says:
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      Hey there. I just rolled in my grave.

    • Fidel Castro says:
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      Beava la revolucion comrade!

      • Jack says:
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        This is good.

        Do I need your Okay to use this?

        Beava la revolucion!

        No kidding… truly excellent.

        • Jack says:
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          I’m giving public notice now. This phrase is open to the public… and me.

          Beava la revolucion!

    • Trotsky says:
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      Mother Russia beckons!

    • Jack says:
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      Bring it boys.

      • Jack says:
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        And I don’t mean misunderstood references to Marx. You were cool in these responses, but you need to be intelligible with the references you think you know.

        Bring it.

      • Jack says:
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        In fact, you were just plain stupid beyond belief for the inferences you made.

        But I’ll let it slide for now.

        P.S. I’m betting you think the Boston Tea Party wasn’t a play against big biz and state sponsored corporatocracy. You people shame people.

      • Jack says:
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        I think we have some USCum in our midst.

        • Jack says:
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          Can I get a +1 for that?

          We’re going to beat you. It is inevitable. Sark sucks the biggest eggs you can get in SoCal… which aren’t that big anymore since it became a cloudy hell.

          I think Dan Mullen is a good look for you guys.

    • Jack says:
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      Okay… don’t bring it.

      Be wimps.

      Whatever.

      • Jack says:
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        *be USCum

      • Jack says:
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        I’m rather disappointed. And that’s a disappointment reserved for fans of a certain feather who just can’t pretend to be whole.

  • Bill says:
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    My thought is that if you went to the school, you could say we because the players were your peers/friends just like in high school. They weren’t a “they” since you knew them personally even if you weren’t on the team. Of course high school was smaller but I was still friends with a few players at OSU. Nowadays, I say “we” less but I won’t correct any fellow alums if they say it.

    • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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      Part of this is that fans who even went to the school will use “we” in positive situations and “they” in negative, when talking about the team they follow.

      As in “We just beat #1 USC!!!” instead of “They just beat #1 USC!!!” and “They just got their asses handed to them by Sacramento State” instead of “We just got our asses handed to us by Sacramento State.”

      • Jack says:
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        Always we and us. I am them and they are me. I falter never… well… hopefully… in any of my posts. I am truly devoted to my school in an emotional way, and I don’t think it’s detrimental to my health in any way.

        Of course, the counter would be that I’m in denial.

        I’d rather be in denial and watch sports. There’s not much else I watch. I listen to a shitload of music and play on the interwebs and watch sports and the occasional series on TV.

        Yay?

      • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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        that sounds like a Belottism. When we create a turnover it’s a takeaway. But when we turn the ball over it’s a giveaway

  • Jack says:
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    I want this game!

    • Jack says:
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      I’m thinking if the Pollyannas and the coaches and the media don’t put this expectation on the team…

      … nobody will do so.

      We are them!

      Let’s friggin’ make this game real!

      I’m all selfish about this topic. I want a SoCal win in my lifetime dammit! This is it. This is the game. I don’t see it for another three years. We’ll have a new QB, and USC will figure out that Sark is a dumb-shit.

      THIS IS THE GAME.

      • Jack says:
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        I say this in the same respect we all know Riley has treated this team since that 2008 CW drubbing.

        This is the game. This is the point in time where we pull ourselves out of the mud and pick up our pride.

        Do it for us.

        Do it for Fred.

        Just do… ummm… just be a child slave and make my sneakers?

        Sorry… couldn’t help myself.

        Right is right, and wrong is wrong.

        Blah blah blah blah.

      • ObjCritic says:
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        I think there ARE some coaches and many players who put expectations on the team.

        When I see the “Behind the Scenes” video after a game, it is clear to me that many players really do care about what happens on the field. I actually feel bad for them because they have head coaches and key coordinators who don’t put them into the best position to when; coaching from stubbornness instead of in-game strategy, favoring complexity over fundamental soundness, botching clock management, etc. As pointed out several thread back, this team has more physical talent than the average Beaver team historically, but they are coached to their potential.

        The problem is the lack of leadership and clear expectations from Riley. I think Mannion and Doctor or Alexander have to challenge the O and D lines in front of them to win the game, and then they have to follow through and deliver when the lines do their part.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    “don’t put them into the best position to win:” not “when.”

    The benefits – and costs – of multi-tasking…

  • Jack says:
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    Just another drunk thirty post.. for a fun fact… this album has been stolen from me seven times. The last time it was stolen, the perp left me with the Marsalis version of the Snoopy theme.

    I like the last perp.

    • Jack says:
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      damn!

      can’t even get links posted.

      • Jack says:
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        For those who care… I’m on a Buchanon/Stevie mix right now. There’s going to be some Carlos soon.

        • ObjCritic says:
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          “Chirp chirp.”

          Because know one cares, I’ll chime in and say if you’re going to “Samba Pa Ti” it’s drunk fifty-five and time to call it a day.

          • Jack says:
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            Drunk 55?

            I’m going down to Frisco, gonna start a psychedelic band.

            What’s the ugliest part of your body?

          • Jack says:
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            We are the other people.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Apparently “USC’s offense is running at a clip of about 23 seconds per play..”

    Will OSU respond well? It’s frustrating to watch the OSU D looking at the sidelines for the play call while WRs are running by them (Hawaii game film). Banker had better communicate quickly and effectively Saturday.

    Enjoy many a shot of the “Banker Hand Jive”….a frantic, frenetic, in-place dance where Banker’s hands go where his feet can’t follow…

    • Bone says:
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      Once?

      • ObjCritic says:
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        There was at least twice on that series where Scott was unprepared. It was a hurry up offense and in the context, the need for quick and clear communication should have been obvious. Also, I think given the hurry up, and down and distance, Scott’s alignment should have been something he’d understand. I took it as another example of OSU coaches over-complicating their schemes and communication.

    • scotty says:
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      BANKER HAND JIVE

      that’s gold

  • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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    +1000000 internets to the person who wrote the top comment

    Which gets found first, Kyle Peko’s paperwork or the missing Malaysian Airliner?

    http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2014/09/kyle_peko_cleared_to_practice.html#incart_river

    • Bill says:
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      He needs to do what many others have done and move to Corvallis and take classes at linn-benton. They have a clear understanding of what transfer and what doesn’t.

      • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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        you have to actually be smart to take and go to classes on campus. I’m not saying Peko had someone else take his online courses for him because I don’t think he’s smart enough to know someone could do that.

    • mckalk says:
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      I’m always fascinated with how long it takes the NCAA to “clear” the paperwork. If it took me 12 weeks to read some f-ing paperwork and then act, I’d have lost my job 10 years ago! I guess Peko took the same course that Roberto Nelson took.

  • Jack says:
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    Spinning wheel… got to go round.

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    If you’re bummed or ecstatic for more than a couple hours after a game then you really need to check yourself.
    When the Eagles lost the Superbowl a few years back I had an employee mope around here for almost a week. Fucking ridiculous.

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    Gonna toss out my old generalization on fan psychology.

    Humans instinctively “tribal-up”, and form groups. They feel within a group that their group is superior to others. An anthropology class told me that ethnic groups, tribes, usually feel that all other groups are in fact “sub-human” and so it goes. Killing those out of group is not murder, but just reasonable extermination of inferiors.

    Such tribalism is now shown, in a large society, by such things as rooting for your local athletic team. So internalizing the glory of a team win is just part of that. Humans are run by such instincts, its inescapable. Instincts are not something you follow by conscious thought. Yet people try to concieve reasons for such. Rationalization, nothing more.

    Fan behavior is not rational, but is rather an expression of basic instincts. This is probably why we find it so easy to enter into wars. We need some evolution to escape this. We need to evolve into a better Homo species….lol.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Could OSU wear black jerseys at USC, or would they lose timeouts?

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Dwight Jaynes (paraphrasing): “It’s been impossible for OSU to win in LA, and its going to stay impossible for OSU to win in LA…”

    http://www.csnnw.com/video_content_type/dwight-or-wrong-beavs-win-la

  • Timber! says:
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    Keep in mind that ultimately this is a Riley-lead team going to USC. I’d feel more CONFIDENT (a term rarely associated with Beaver football) if Garrett were head coaching going into this game honestly. Stay tuned for many false starts (see Dylan Wynn offside on first play of SDSU game), inexplicable play calling, cowardly sideline demeanor and poor clock management. And certainly no game adjustments or aggressive/daring play calling on either side of the ball. I feel for those players. I hope they go Keith Moon on the locker room and get some sort of mean streak before hand…some how… some way. But that attitude just doesn’t come down from the top. I was glad to see Lyle doing a pre-game nasty speech that was much more manly in the SDSU video. Well gee, that’s in order!

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      Don’t underestimate the In N Out factor. Riley has promised them shit from the secret menu.
      84-3 Beav’s. Hayden fires Sark on the sideline at the beginning of the second half after Mannion
      scores on his third 50+ yard read option run.

      • Timber! says:
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        put away anything valuable/breakable as you’ll be throwing things early.

      • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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        I had In n out for the first time this last summer in Redding on our way to dodgers/vagiants. I was not impressed by the double double. Honestly, Burgerville’s tillamook bacon cheddar burger is way better and still my favorite. I’d take five guys (burgers, not dudes) over In n out. However, their Neapolitan shake is the fucking bomb!

  • mckalk says:
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    I was a more intense Beav fan when they were slowly getting better in the late 90’s and trying to get a winning record, once they did I was kind of just happy that the embarassment was over. It picked back up when they had a chance for the Rose Bowl, but now although it’s fun to bitch and moan with everyone here I’m just not that enthused anymore. Riley is going to be Riley, the team is going to be fair to middling most years, live goes on. I had more fun playing three softball games in 95 degree heat then watching the SDSU game later than night.

  • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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    The Beavers played at Hawaii in the second week of the season. This entitled OSU to schedule a 13th regular-season game, something the NCAA allows for schools that play in the islands.

    Washington took advantage to schedule last week’s nonconference game against Georgia State.

    OSU spokesman Steve Fenk explains the Beavers passed on the opportunity for a 13th game and took a schedule bye instead.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/collegefootball/index.ssf/2014/09/tuesday_morning_news_notes_lin_4.html#incart_m-rpt-1

    I just have one question. How much does OSU receive for the paycheck game at Meechicken next year?

    Could have something to do with it. I still fail to understand why OSU didn’t find a 13th game (at home no less) to make some bank.

    Goe is still a complete douchetard

    • mckalk says:
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      In 2006 taking advantage of that rule helped them get a 10 win season. They had Idaho and Eastern Washington on the schedule. I don’t understand it either, I think the norm is to schedule 13 games.

    • beavblazer beavblazer says:
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      It’s simple. The Pac-12 championship game s gake 13 on our schedule. It was determined by the powers that be, long before the season started.

      • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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        If you think the beavs are going to be playing in the pac-12 championship I have a bridge for sale. Interested?

    • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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      We already have 7 home games this season, and with the constant late start times honestly I wouldn’t want to go to an 8th. I say it’s better to let the team rest/get healthy, and focus on recruiting for that week.

      The only way it’s useful is if it’s against a lower tier team and the youngsters get to play a lot, which never happens anyway.

    • wannabeav says:
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      it’s simple really. At this stage in the history of Riley II the operative number isn’t 12 or 13, it’s six. As in enough wins to get to a bowl; as in enough to get Riley another year of contract roll-over. Given the statistical probabiity of Riley II (a regular season win total of 6 +/- 1), a 13th game and a record of 6-7 is simply NOT a risk that Riley wants to run. And the notion that somehow this is just BDC’s call is laughable. those guys have a symbiotic relationship; they’re in it together.

    • Bill says:
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      OSU would probably have to pay someone to come to Reser for an 8th home game. Not exactly a money maker.

  • Mb says:
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    More games, more money more greed. Great, squeeze blood out of turnips. Sheesh, has anyone considered that the off week was/is a recruiting strategy? The coaches were able to spread the country and visit individuals mid season in person. This controversy is a tempest in a teapot.

    • alex says:
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      Plus, risking more injuries to a thin team. I think we take the bye week and be happy about it.

      Besides, are you really going to feel better about the Beavs with an ultimately worthless extra W at the end of the year? 8-5 beating Montana State vs 7-5 not playing them? It looks better on paper but doesn’t mean anything.

    • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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      well since BDC griped a while back OSU fans needed to pony up? The opportunity was there to make some extra scratch. Sorry, but that’s a FAIL IMHO

  • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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    Harris Ross has his paperwork in and is set to join the team this fall. Glad to see that. Kid looked like a stud.

    Wonder if the staff is keeping tabs on Lawrence Mattison and Corey Lawrence and if there’s a chance either will ever make it.

    • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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      Harris set to join this winter, not spring.

    • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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      I poked around on the internets looking for something on Mattison’s status. I don’t see any Fall football stats, and his twitter in July referenced needing to get back into football. He got an academic football award last Fall.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    OT – Mizell with some film review of OSU’s blocking last Saturday, and an article on Bed Delva:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2014/09/examining_oregon_state_beavers.html

    http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2014/09/bud_delvas_surprising_athletic.html

    Here’s hoping Delva and ‘Boom, and some blitzing LBs put USCs QB on his back several times…

    • wannabeav says:
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      So, if there is any doubt yet that Gina is a SUBSTANTIAL upgrade over LIndsay, read the blocking analysis story. It takes no courage to call out good play; naming names on who misses blocks, well, that’s reporting.

    • Jack says:
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      Let’s see… USC, SDSU, OSU… uhuh…. hmmm.

      I see two articles about Oregon State football, but I see no mention of the Ducks.

      Gina does know that’s required of our beat writers, no?

  • ObjCritic says:
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    From Disney Sports, taking a break from singing the praises of the fairytale Kingdom of SEC….where brave knights annually keep the Dragon of Legitimate & Open Competition at bay and protect the vain Princess of Championshipa from Anyone Else….an update on USC’s prep against OSU.

    It sounds like USC’s Dline will be back to full two-deep strength.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/colleges/usc/post/_/id/18825/usc-practice-notebook?ex_cid=espnapi_public

    Mr. Obvious here thinks the game will be won in the trenches. If USC’s big athletic DLine starts hitting Mannion, I think his mechanics break down and interceptions ensue…

    • wannabeav says:
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      Greg Roberts, aka the Dixie Dynamo and football betting expert always said “never step in front of a streak.”

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Unless USC agreed to wear their white jersey’s and allow OSU to wear black, I suspect OSU would lose a timeout per half for wearing black jerseys down there.

    Screw it. Big Mike Riley’s always leaving timeouts on the board anyway. Wear black jersey with the white helmets and pants. Take the band, tell them to play the OSU fight song loud and often….

    C’mon Riley, do something a little different, put the kids’ brains slightly off center…Jack’s giving the team all the mojo he’s got!

    I’ll even be watching this saturday, enduring Sports Bar appetizers and a sipping a few cool ones….

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    I got it…. The whole team and coaches all wear Nixon masks….and the refs will leave them entirely alone. NO penalties, 0 yards!

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Might need a more contemporary reference and mask…good idea for the false-starters at least…

  • Bill says:
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    Curious, really no news from the recruits that visited this past weekend. No commits is not a good sign.

    • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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      I’ve read rumors that the basketball recruit Javier Roper could commit this week, but nothing concrete and no other info about any other visitors

    • GOBeavers GOBeavers says:
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      Oregon State had two other 2015 prep seniors — 6-7, 240-pound Khalil Fuller of Moreno Valley, Calif., and 6-6, 185-pound Javier Roper of Ruston, La. — on campus for visits last weekend.

      Neither has been offered a scholarship because the Beavers are at the NCAA limit of 13 for next year. Tinkle is merely covering his bases in case any of the nine returning players decides to walk after next season.

      http://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/234630-98620-its-tinkle-time-in-corvallis

  • FedUpBeav says:
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    Sure as hell hope we see the Mannion presser combo from Pac-12 Media Days this year…all black with white lids. Cool look from the past that an entire generation knew well. It still works & honors those teams. Mannion looked sharp so I hope we see it.

    However we for some dumb reason are slow to break out all the new combos we were supposed to be seeing this year. USC would be a great game to use a new wrinkle as we try to break the long streak.

  • beavblazer beavblazer says:
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    Trojan fans have been tweeting all week with #BeatTheBeavers. Do a search, its pretty funny to see a team as big as USC trying to drum up support from their fans to beat the lowly Beavers. I like that our team and fans have been quietly going about their business this week. #BeaversDontLikeTrojans

    • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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      #cocksdon’tliketrojanseither

    • Bill says:
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      USC has the biggest band wagon fans in the PAC12. They aren’t especially loud or into the game like other fans. The more important thing to them is to be seen and see who else is at the game.

      • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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        uhhh, biggest band wagon fans in the Pac-12 at duck fans

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          Any team that goes through a streak of success like the ducks have enjoyed will gain a buttload of bandwagon fans. It points to the psychology of what this thread is about.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    According to Angie, Beav coaches will be heading down early to recruit 4* WR Austin (according to her Brennan’s #1 recruiting target), and a 3* LB Thomas…

    • hellobeavers says:
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      Just curious if anyone knows, but how does the media and the public find out about commits and recruiting targets and whatnot? If coaches aren’t allowed to talk about commitments until they sign, wondering how the media finds out about it.

      • Jack says:
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        People talk.

        Coaches/mentors/street agents all talk because their income and social standing is tied to how well they provide their players opportunities at the next level. When one of their kids gets the opportunity that brings exposure to the adult and all the kids he is shepherding.

        Parents get to be excited, as do the kids themselves. They just won the lottery… and a continued opportunity for more beyond just the lottery winnings of a full ride… not to mention getting to continue playing a game 95% of all other kids have to leave behind.

        Friends get to BIRG (keeping it on topic). They’re probably the least talkative in the majority of cases, when asked to be so. But if they’re not asked they will be overly congratulatory in social media.

        And then there’s the recruiting “industry” media themselves, who pretend to gather all this openly available material and actually call the above for direct info. They above all else BIRG and encourage others to BIRG, all for profit. As time passes, they form relationships with many of those coaches and mentors in the know and use those connections for their own enrichment.

        And then there are the fans who fork over money solely for the enrichment of the media. They provide the demand for any of this “info” in the first place.

        • Bill says:
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          Coaches and recruiting reporters will talk for quid pro quo. The college coaches will give up info on recruits and recruiting reporters will let them know how recruits are leaning or what other schools are saying to the kid. It’s all hush hush since both parties get what they want. Both ends know if anyone talks, that stops the flow of info.

          In addition to what Jack said.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    OLIve on Sapolu:

    “Cavanaugh stressed Sapolu must continue to trust his technique, something crucial for every Beavers lineman as they prepare to face USC’s front seven. For Sapolu specifically, that means keeping a strong base and battling with his hands against defensive linemen who may have longer arms. ”

    I really don’t understand why it seems so hard for players recruited by OSU, in OSU’s system, to learn and consistently apply blocking technique? For somebody with Sapulu’s experience, why is it even a question at this point? How many springs and falls and practices has he been through? How can this not be second nature?

    I’m very suspect of Cav’s effectiveness and have been very critical of him for the past couple of years. I think he gets a pass because he’s “colorful” (cursing, bear crawls…) and because of good line play several years ago. Despite his gruffness, it seems like his lines have lacked aggressiveness for years (something even he has said) and struggle to learn and “trust” technique. Another OSU coach overcomplicating things and making players think too much instead of play quickly and aggressively?

    There have been injuries to Olineman the past several years. I understand that. But if you play the line in HS (which most of them have), go through spring and fall camps, practice….how hard can it be? I understand when they might be just physically overmatched by the guy across the line, or beat due to inexperience, I don’t understand why it appears that it’s difficult for them to learn and retain technique. Maybe I’m just reading too much into it.

    But I’m struck again how much Mannion’s footwork and mechanics have improved so quickly with the change from Langsdorf to Garret, and wonder if the Oline performance wouldn’t benefit from a change as well.

    • hellobeavers says:
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      Not that I necessarily disagree with the idea of replacing Cav, but it seems as though a lot of folks on here read too much into off the cuff remarks.

      Our coaches generally seem to go way above and beyond in terms of what they give to the media to then go write about. Cav could have easily just said something like “Our line is really starting to come together and I am confident they will perform well at USC”. Or Mike Riley could easily say “I really like this team, and our young receivers are stepping up and making plays” instead of going into detail to explain pieces of the offense or defense and who is still learning. Instead these coaches give the reporters more than they need to, and often that opens them up to scrutiny. I imagine if other coaches were as transparent as Riley & Co you would see many of the same statements.

      However, a coach saying that their players need to trust their technique, or stick to their assignments, and interpreting that as the coach must not know what he is doing…that’s a bit of a stretch.

      • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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        Agree. Objcritic also assumes that everyone can be coached technique. Just because players aren’t doing something, doesn’t mean that the coach isn’t trying to teach it. Also, in high school, if you’re a lineman with significantly more strength and speed than the guy in across from you, you don’t need technique to dominate them.

        • ObjCritic says:
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          I don’t mean to over-simply it, but I don’t think the coaches should be given a free pass for what appears to be a program behavior of over-complicating things. Others here have said that football is not complicated. I pose the questions because I know there are posters here who understand the game much better than I do.

          Run or pass blocking technique doesn’t change every year. But it seems like OSU’s line lack’s aggressiveness (over-thinking?) and is slow to learn. I can see a player applying the correct technique and losing the battle physically, but this seems to be a systematic and recurring issue.

          Sapolu clearly doesn’t have ideal size and strength for a DI guard these days. So if he doesn’t use proper technique, what else has he got? Charm? Good technique is his best bet, and if he’s been in the program for four years, technique shouldn’t be an issue. I can see a player learning slowly if the teaching is poor.

          • Bone says:
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            But trusting technique is an issue that happens at all levels in all sports. For example when Michael conforto was in his slump Casey said time and time again he needs to trust himself. Trust is a huge part of sports and it is one more difficult concepts to achieve.

    • Bill says:
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      Sapolu’s shortcoming is his strength. He’s very undersized to play guard or really any position. His body just can’t add the weight needed to be a superior lineman. I think he came in at 220 or so out of high school. I suspect he’s lighter than what he’s listed.

      Technique and taking the right angle is key for Sapolu’s success. He will never win a power battle. For me he’s just filling in until Weinreich gets healthy.

    • Beavers4life says:
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      I was an offensive lineman in high school, and we were taught technique of using the hands, but it was more hands on and short. Technique is different in every offense. Spread offensive line blocking is blocking the guy in front of you or at the next level(linebacker), pro style is more zone or area blocking where you block in your area and you don’t move. When picking up blitzes it starts with recognising where the blitz is coming from and calling out the right line calls to say who’s got who. Seumalo was our Oline signal caller last year…without him, things seem to be getting missed on who blocks who. So that is something that will need to be cleaned up. My high school team had the tackles yell out the blitz calls and the rest of the line were supposed to be able to understand that and know who they were blocking and if they needed help, there was a call for that too. So it could be that when 2 guys blocked the same guy, one May have asked for help, which freed up a delay blitz by a linebacker or safety. So in that case, it’s recognising blitz downs and you can help by giving a punch rather than a double team. It was common to fake a double team to draw a delay blitz by a linebacker and the lineman disingage the double team and pick up the blitz to free up space in the secondary. This would work well on play action IMO.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Now there’s hype for the SEC’s offenses.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/offensive-firepower-leading-secs-identity-change-183258458–ncaaf.html

    Spurrier calls the “new rise” in SEC scoring overstated, pointing out over-matched non-conference opponents. Blowouts include Texas A&M’s 73-3 win over Lamar and Arkansas’ 73-7 victory over Nicholls State.

    Saban says the game favors offense these days, and defenses must expect that and “be patient.”

  • Bill says:
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    Reasons why OSU will win tomorrow,

    1. Veteran QB – Mannion should be able to overcome inexperience at WR and move the ball consistently.
    2. Veteran defense – Defense has improved every week. Playing vs a non spread offense. Not many holes. Depth has been good.
    3. USC run defense is shaky. Opportunity to exploit a weakness like last year’s civil war.

    Reasons why OSU will lose tomorrow,

    1. Mannion is prone to blow up in big games. He has not led the team to a signature victory.
    2. The run game is always bad no matter who they play.
    3. The o-line is still far from full strength. USC’s dline is superior to OSU’s oline.

    To me there both good and bad cancel each other out. I can see the game going every which way. It really comes down to Mannion being able to direct the offense and move the ball.

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