05.Sep.2010 Final Thoughts: Oregon State @ TCU

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This post isn't very well thought out or anything. Just some leftover thoughts, musing, rambling, and points for discussion…

The Score

Beaver fans should be thankful the final margin was only 9. There were two 14 point swings that Dalton flat out handed the Beavers, and then TCU let off the throttle on their last drive. Katz left two interceptions of his own on the field, the kicked safety could have easily been a TD, and the early fumble…well, yeah. On the final drive, Riley decided not to call a timeout, which prevented the subsequent TCU field goal, showing Riley was most concerned about keeping the score respectable on the national stage. I don't blame him. Bottom line is this game had the feeling of a 30 point loss, even if the ledger read 9.

The Defense

Maybe now we can stop arguing about the LB corp?

1. Roberson was too slow to the edge, and when he did get outside, he over-pursued, the back cut inside, and he did the old OSU flailing arm tackle. Saw him get jersey and air a lot. I still feel this is the best LB we have, but he should be moved to MLB starting next practice.

2. I don't think Pankey had a single tackle, nor do I think he was close to making one. When he was injured and I wrote that the team was better off, hardcore Beaver optimist went nuts on me. Now?

3. I didn't even notice the MLB. Honestly, it's probably because most runs were off tackle or options to the outside. Dalton ran up the gut with ease, but I didn't pay close enough attention to name the culprit.

To put it succinctly, the LB corp is slow, weak, and have bad technique. During the bye week, the idea has to be to get Roberson in the middle and Collins/Doctor outside. There's no time to waste on the current experiment.

The verdict is still out on the secondary. I thought they played okay, but they weren't tested much. The bad plays were too few and far between to say if there's a legitimate pattern. My "cause for concern" radar went a bit haywire, but it's not all doom and gloom yet.

Coaching

The game plan was correct on offense. With the safeties in the box, you want to go over the top. Problem is Katz didn't convert enough opportunities to loosen the D. I think if he hit one more deep ball TCU would have backed off, and Quizz would have been able to run.

Banker is a dinosaur who still can't scheme any version of the spread. No need to beat that dead horse or try to convince since it's now a well-known fact.

The main problem with the coaching staff is the lack of intensity they project onto players. Think about the TCU sideline compared to the OSU sideline. TCU played with a sense of urgency, meaning they knew the importance of every play. OSU seems to think, "as long as we make most plays and hang in the game, that's good enough." They seem to be content with a post game interview where players talk about how close they were, and if one break went their way they would have won the game. But they never do win the big game. At some point you have to ask: why is that? The answer is confidence and intensity. You have to want it more, and further, you have to be trained to want it more and (mentally) overcome the animal's natural inclination to conserve energy. We are not a hunter/gatherer society anymore, Beavers. There is plenty of food waiting at the hotel and there are beds, too, so burn your energy.

This problem goes back years, though…it's nothing new. It's a reflection of the head man's personality.

And before blaming this on a talent deficiency, look at TCU's recruiting classes. The RB, Wesley, who ran for 8.0 per carry, was a 2-star recruit, as was Tank Carder in the middle. TCU recruits worse than us, believe it or not.

Loose ends

Just a few more random thoughts…

Hekker once again made his worst kick when the team needed him most.

Katz played a great first game. The criticism I'm reading about his performance isn't fair.

Quizz looked shot last night. Physically and emotionally.

Riley looked depressed/shot. His last two games were the fiasco last night and the Civil War. I wouldn't be surprised if Riley retires earlier than we all expect. He's capped with the talent he's personally able to recruit, and part of his dejection is that he's beginning to realize it.

Why didn't a coach call a timeout during the Katz audible? WRs were shrugging shoulders on the field, meaning they didn't know what play was called.

Beating Louisville is no longer an given.

Boise State is going to dismantle this defense is nothing changes.

The Beavers are built better for the Pac-10 than any of these three OOC games.

The McAndrews experiment should end; the guy cannot run block. Get Phillipp on the field.

They'll be a point during this season (in Pac-10 play) where the new LB configuration is in there and things suddenly "click", and we'll wish we had played TCU that Saturday instead of yesterday.

Gary Patterson is extremely lame for opening the roof 12 minutes before game time; but if that's my school's coach I'm loving it. So, good move. Bad foresight by the Beavers–should have had it written in the contract that the roof must remain closed.

I'd like to see the Beavs use a read-option offense. It's an equalizer against opponents with superior talent. The pro offense and 4-3 defense are somewhat antiquated in college ball. Creativity is king right now.

If TCU is in the championship game I might be done with college football.

The Ducks would have drubbed TCU.

Oh…and fire Mark Banker.

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  • angry angry says:
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    Oh, and to add insult to injury, Jesse Williams committed to Alabama last night.

  • beavfan4 says:
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    On a positive note, Michael Doctor’s gonna be a big player in the future. Saw flashbacks of doggett watching him play

  • JackBeav says:
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    OLB play was horrible, and the MLB wasn’t dominating. The starters should be Collins, Roberson and Doctor. But I’ll take Bibbee at the Mike in lieu of Roberson. As it is, he should probably be the back-up behind Roberson, but I can see a redshirt year putting Wilson and Feti in the back-up role for now.

    The score was about right. TCU didn’t play well enough in the passing game to warrant a blow out. They may have been dominating in the run, but they took it in chunks. Too many third down runs means we had many opportunities to dominate ourselves… but failed.

    UO does not beat this TCU team… at least not yestreday’s UO. Many of UO’s scores came on plays with 467 broken tackles or nobody on one side of the field. If UNM had any semblance of a D, UO would have had zero passing offense. Thomas was that bad with wide open receivers. And the receivers were so bad in their routes (except Maehl) that there was no way they get open against a half decent D.

    UNM would have been beaten by a D-II school yesterday… easily. That’s how stupendously bad they were.

    UO’s offensive line is not as good as ours is. And that’s with McAndrews at LT. Their blocking only looked Ok because of the opponents. Often they couldn’t maintain their blocks and the runners were caught in the backfield or in the line for a… missed tackle. TCU would not miss those tackles, and they would not let an inferior line beat them to the outside.

    But UO’s defense is faster than ours where it counts… at LB. And they’re surer tacklers as well. So a UO/TCU match-up might provide a closer game in both feel and score. I would say something like a 18-17 game with the Chipster winning on a late 2-point conversion.

    This game does say that Boise beats us 45-27 though. Unless we put some speed at the OLB posititions, a much better QB will pick apart the middle… and scramble for a hundred himself.

    If Collins and Doctor move in, then I say we have a chance like we did in this game. If they don’t play at all, then I say we lose 52-20. If they only play spot back-up roles, then we lose 45-28.

    The D-line looked good except for several plays where they over-pursued. Dalton looked physically surprised to be in the clear a couple times. He actually had to look for our LB’s a couple times before running.

    Even with my DVR I couldn’t find them myself.

    • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      Ok, so I am here to man up! 🙂 I pretty much agree with Jack. Very disappointed in the Linebackers and didn’t think that they called enough first down plays. I love going deep every once in a while, but too many three and outs cost the team field position and kept the defense on the field too long.

      I watched the game twice and I think that the biggest issue I had was really with the play calling. 51 plays is not enough to do anything. I know that the progressions are the QB’s call, but there were guys open all over the field and if you need ten, get ten. I mean, if a guy is wide open like Bishop was on the first play of the drive that ended in the horrid punt, you go for it, but really, there were a lot of times where they needed eight or seven yards and went for thirty and got burned.

      As for the game being close to a blow out, they all are, always. There were three passes that came within one yard of being completions for the Beavers that would have been touchdowns. And there were three plays that had they not been made could have made this a 20+ point loss. If you play the woulda, coulda, shoulda game, it goes both ways, all the time.

      The biggest positive, in my mind, was the play of the offensive line, the receivers and the defensive backs. There were some mistakes made, but the best lineman on the field was Mike Remmers, and that fires me up. This week should be a good chance for the team to get their confidence up, and then is the trip to Boise. They will need a much better effort to have a shot in that game.

      But, to be honest, I wasn’t super pissed or super excited after the TCU game. I was disappointed, but the stupid mistakes made the game frustrating but not embarrassing. This was not 2006 in Louisville or 2008 in Penn State. This was more like 2008 Utah. Close enough to be exciting, but enough mistakes to be annoying.

      That being said, I still think that this team has a high ceiling.

      • angry angry says:
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        You seem content and happy that it wasn’t embarrassing. That says a lot about your expectations and demands. I came to the west from the east coast where we demand that things are good. If they aren’t, people get fired. You’re living in a west coast bubble mentality where if the team loses that’s okay, because you’ll go eat a granola bar in the mountains and shrug it off. Until more people change and demand wins, you’ll get what you get; that is, fans saying “at least we didn’t get blown out”.

        Sorry, not good enough. Not even close.

        • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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          That is just silly.

          Your east coast versus west coast comment is so 1997 Biggie. You have no idea who I am or what I have done in my life. I hope your bosses feel the same way you do.

          I come from a land where people learn from their mistakes and improve on what they did well. In my life time I have had a lot of future success based on my failures of the past. If that is not your attitude, then the first time you made a mistake, no matter what other good you did, you were and are a failure.

          My standards are a lot higher than you think, but I don’t throw out great efforts and results because the overall result wasn’t what I wanted. I also try and wait, review and revisit something before I come to my conclusions. This is not wrestling or swimming or diving. This is a team sport. The result of the team was bad, but the results of the individuals were mixed.

          Anyway, nice swipe, and I have no control what you think of me or the team, but please, don’t pretend you know who I am or what I think like. If you cannot see incremental improvement over the last four years that is your fault, not mine.

          And before you make disparaging comments about me being ok with losses, perhaps you shouldn’t blog about being OK with the National Championship run being over. Apparently you are fine with the loss as well because it proves your point. Or something.

          • angry angry says:
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            I’ve seen your comments on blitz for years. You make jokes about your weight and then wax poetic about how the Beavers are on the right track.

            “If you cannot see incremental improvement over the last four years that is your fault, not mine.”

            Incremental improvement, like going from a 3rd place bowl to the 5th place bowl, and then getting blown out of it? Or did you mean the recruiting progress:

            2007-40th
            2010 – 69th

            Just explain what your metrics are so I, too, can see this incremental improvement. I guess you mean losing to Oregon by fewer points, but that can’t be it, because you have high standards and don’t believe in moral victories.

            By all means, elaborate.

          • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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            Umm, so you do understand how bowls work, Correct?

            Elaborate on OSU’s end of the season rankings in the Pac Ten the last five years. What has it done? Have they finished at the same place or lower in each of the past five years or are they improving their final standing? What bowl game was the Civil War for the last two years and what was it for the previous two years and the previous two years before that.

            Is that not improvement?

            Or maybe you don’t understand that recruiting classes are based on the numbers in the class as well. So for instance, the numbers in the class two years ago were higher, but the average stars per player were lower. This year, the class was smaller, but had more talent in it per player than in years past (according to stars and Rivals and places like that). I guess you would prefer that they violate the NCAA scholarship limit and bring in 25 players when they only have 12 scholarships?

            So that is my rationale for their incremental improvement. You tell me what they finished five years ago in the Pacific Ten, what they finished four years ago, three years ago and so and let me know if that number has gone up or down?

            As for reading my posts on Blitz, if you really read them and knew how fat I was, you probably wouldn’t have written about me hiking and eating granola in your comments above. Neither of those activities are characteristic of fat dudes…

          • angry angry says:
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            Of course I know how bowl games work, and the Beavers played in a less prestigious game last year than four years prior. To me, that is not improvement.

            It seems like you’ve justified this in your head.

            What I see is a stagnant situation with slight variance. You’re saying the Beavers finished ranked higher last year, but they didn’t. They were unranked at the end of the year, where as the three years prior they were ranked (21, 25, and 24). Again, that range represents good/respectable but nothing great. It’s just small variance in a range, which suggests a stagnant situation. The difference between being 21st or 30th is very small. The different between the Top 10 teams and 11-25 is huge, but it difference after that is small.

            What is going to cause this team to suddenly break through? Everything (i.e. the coaches, recruiters, talent, facilities) remains the same. Why do you believe things are improving when they’re clearly standing still? What was Einstein’s idea of insanity…”doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

            Right?

            If you’re pinning your hope on getting all the breaks and having a “magical season” you’re living in fantasy land. It’s your prerogative, just realize I’m going to question the hell out of that because it’s just so unsound.

            PS. And I’ve definitely seen the irony that is fat guy hiking while eating granola.

          • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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            Ok, so can you please just list out where the Beavers finished in the Pacific Ten in the last five years?

            So what was their Pacific Ten ranking in 2005? Then again in 2006? Then again in 2007? Then again in 2008? Then again in 2009?

            Just print those numbers down in order. I don’t care if you start with 2005 and end with 2009 or vice versa.

            Then tell me, how did their standing in the Pacific Ten get better or worse in those five years.

            That is it. That is my logic.

            Bowl games are decided by non-repeat clauses, BCS bowl bids and all sorts of things that OSU has no control over. Using them is like using pre-season rankings to decided teams post-season results.

            So just write out those numbers. That is all. That is what I use as my measuring stick.

            When this season is over, look and see where they are. if they are anything less than first or second, then you are right. They are not getting better. I will admit that. Last year they replaced a crap load of players and looked bad for five games before they started to look good. Last year was the year they should have taken a step back and I think they did a bit. But they still finished second. This year, with so many players coming back, even with the defections at middle linebacker, defensive end, the injuries and the new QB, they should be better than last year. Plus the Pacific Ten is worse than they have been in years. So if OSU finishes lower than first or second, they took a sizeable step back. But if they finish first, and they have steadily begun improving every year for the past few years, then you have to admit that.

            Nothing more, nothing less. If they end up Pacific Ten Champs or at least second place, then at the least they are stagnant and at the most they are getting better.

            Oh, and here is another, equally compelling Einstein Quote: “A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy? ”

            Since we are quoting.

          • angry angry says:
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            Yes, in the Pac-10 they finished higher, but nationally they finished lower or the same over that time period. I guess I misunderstood which ranking you were talking about. My bad.

            I’d call your perspective “glass half full”. I mean, you’re taking a stagnant situation and acting as if it’s positive/improvement. Sure, losing by 4 is better than losing by 30, but they weren’t ranked at the end of the season, went to a worse bowl, got blown out, etc. Then the opened the season with more of the same in losing to TCU.

            PS. The Sun Bowl or Emerald Bowl could have taken Oregon State. It was discretionary, and they had “better” options.

            PSS. I do agree they’ll be pretty good in conference. It’s just going to be another 2nd or 3rd place finish and more of the same.

          • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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            I agree with your assessment of me on that one (glass is half full) and your thoughts on the national view of the team. They need to win one of these big out of conference road games, like the ducks have, to take that next step nationally.

            I think they are making improvements but to be honest, I am also looking for them to improve so I cannot claim to be 100% objective. But I do see your points on the national viewpoint and the reality is I see improvement because I watch them all the time and I look for growth in the things that they did bad. The rest of the world will see improvement when the “L’s” against TCU or BSU turn into “W’s”.

            Anyway, good discussion, heated but good. At least we are both passionate about the team. From what I gather you have a very high standard for them and want them to exceed that standard and do it now. I can understand that and even though I don’t always agree, I don’t think you would be nearly as feisty with me and the other ‘true believers’ if you weren’t a real fan. (It takes too much effort!) So at that level I can totally relate.

            So anyway, thanks for the chat and sticking with it until I could see your point clearer. I am slow, but usually I can get it!

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    The spin on a lot of the websites is too positive for my blood. The game was very close to being a three touchdown blowout. You are damn lucky to get outrushed by 200 yards and still have a chance to tie in the 4th quarter. What can be done about the linebacking? Are the younger players better or is this a gradual talent decline? Remember not so long ago, OSU was LB university westcoast! Bankers time may have passed as he does seem to be able to adjust to the new offensive trends (I think he is kind of lucky that so many P-10 schools have stuck with pro-style offenses), maybe they can bring Rocky Long back?

    • angry angry says:
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      The only positives were the pass protection and that Katz didn’t implode.

      As far as the LBs, not sure the answer is on the roster. Sure, there is more speed you can get out there (Collins/Doctor), but they’ll have other flaws, like inexperience and size (Doctor seems too small/weak right now). I still think you go in that direction because speed is more valuable than experience, and it would get them ready for next year.

      Another option would be to use 1 or 2 linebackers (say, Roberson and Doctor) and do a 4-2-5 or 4-1-6 with Collins and Dax patrolling the secondary, but what are the odds Banker gets that creative?

      What likely happens is nothing changes, Banker looks better vs Pac-10 competition because of all the pro-offenses, and then we get killed in the Civil War and go to a 4th tier bowl.

  • beavers4life says:
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    Here’s Louisville’s rankings in their production:

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/97/louisville-cardinals

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/204/oregon-state-beavers

    And their production was against Kentucky, not TCU and they lost to Kentucky. So I would say that the Louisville game isn’t necessarily a gimme, nor will it be a loss.

    Kentucky’s production and rankings for said production:

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/96/kentucky-wildcats

  • Alex says:
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    Give the secondary a little more credit- they did very well. I remember seeing Hardin get beat once, but there were a lot of good breakups and (presumably) a lot of good coverage as Dalton didn’t throw deep very often.

    Also, the secondary was responsible for ALL the best hits and best tackles I remember seeing. Hardin and Dockery both had solid hits on the RB around the line of scrimmage that stopped them in their tracks. I’m pretty sure those were close to the ONLY times in the game that we stopped the play before the line of scrimmage.

  • Jim S says:
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    No real surprises in this game, to me. The team is about what everyone has been talking about here and elsewhere in the pre-season. Pretty potent offense, poor run D, and a bad punter.

    Katz had a rifleman’s arm last night and did not check down, where Quizz might have actually got some yards. But Katz was mobile and much more composed than past OSU QBs. A promising showing, all in all, for his first start.

    There are several receivers/TEs who can make plays, and the OL did okay, in my opinion, given they were up against one of the toughest run Ds in the country.

    The secondary looked fairly good, the DL was okay (though I’m not that impressed with Paea, except for his bench press :).

    The punter and LBs, oh lord. And why was it so hard to account for a slow white guy like Dalton keeping the ball?! TCU, on the whole, looked faster and tougher. In part, I am just glad it was not another September blowout.

    • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      In terms of Paea, I think you have to look at the scheme. They were basically taking two steps and waiting to see what happened. Watch Miller on the edge or Paea in the middle.They got two yards of penetration and stopped to find the ball. I am not sure I am a fan of this, but I think the defensive line is hard to judge since this is counter-intuitive to what they normally do in Banker’s scheme.

      The defensive ends made some poor reads, but I just don’t think this scheme plays to their strengths. They are an undersized defensive line that relies on speed and power to make plays and cancel gaps. They are not big huge guys that take up real estate. So to ask them to take two steps and wait is kind of asking them to take two steps and get absorbed by huge linemen.

      This line is probably the best OSU will face all year and I think they did ok in the scheme. The linebackers were the ones that struggled, and in this system, their job is to pick up the trash and get all the tackles while the defensive line either directs traffic or goes after the QB. Since they were not allowed to go after the QB much, they basically directed traffic.

      Of course this is all my opinion.

  • ean says:
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    I wouldn’t write BSU off as a loss already. They don’t have the same running attack. Although with 2 solid receivers it will be harder to hide Hardin’s mediocre cover skills. Hopefully this defense finds itself. Maybe need a players only meeting like 2 years ago. The only thing that can make up for that kind of lack of athleticism is disciplined team play.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    I would like to see the pressure turned up a little on Banker. Some of these players have seen some variation of the spread three or four times now and the ends are still crashing down on the fake and the linebackers are out of position. Yes, Dalton can run the ball (look at his stats from last year). Have the Beavers beaten a spread team in the last two years or so? I know there are variations in schemes, but I would count Utah,Cincy,Ducks (twice), TCU and maybe even Arizona last year as spread type teams and all loses. Banker needs to at least be sweating, but I am not sure Riley is the type of head coach to put the pressure on (even if it is done in house). I mean where was the D ranked last year in the P-10, 6th overall?

    • Jim S says:
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      At the end of this season, do you think it will be commonly felt that the Ducks now have better defenses than the Beavers?

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        Probably too early to say, but their defense was better than the Beavers last year except for that puzzling performance against Stanford.

  • OS_Beaver says:
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    Patterson used classic “Art or War” techniques. Riley is still very far from masetring them. The papers were full of this would be a 70 degree airconditioned game and then we got Sun Tzu’ed on that one BIG TIME. We DEFINITELY should have written a closed roof into the contract. That happens plenty of times, but Riley was outmaneuvered. Perfect use of deception by Patterson. Katz did need one or two more intermediate to deep balls and especially that one that James almost had and it would have for sure been an exciting finish. If there is confusion then use a timeout. Whether Linnenkohl or Riley has to call it you can argue but both need to recogize when something is funny and that stopping and regathering focus is necessary. The WRs looked confused for over 5 seconds on that play and just when you thought they were on the same page you realized they weren’t cause Wheaton was still shrugging. You never just hike it and hope though and if you do as a center you should probably yell attention or something first just in case. With the confusion lasting that long Riley has to call a timeout. Ultimately he has to be comfortable with what he sees happening.

    • angry angry says:
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      I just want to say that as a huge player/fan of chess and strategy, I loved the Art of War reference.

  • Wriggy says:
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    Well for how normally start, I’m excited for the rest of the season as Riley’s teams really get going starting in October. But the way we lost the game last night leaves me feeling disgusted. Lance Mitchel seemed like the only defensive player who actually could tackle. Hardin for how big and fast he is should be playing either linebacker or safety not corner, Poyer who is much faster than him should start.

    Katz should have called a timeout seeing how long it took him to audible. I don’t blame the bad snap on Linenkohl, I would have to say it’s on Katz and his inexperience with big time games. Though overall I am very pleased with the effort against a very good opponent in TCU.

    Well hopefully we can use this bye week to tinker with the defense and get the timing down between Katz and the receivers. Anyway the season is still lookin’ good.

  • OS_Beaver says:
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    There were 5.5 seconds on the play clock when Linnenkohl snapped the ball so his excuse about running out of time is a bit lame. Katz would have been ready in another 2/3 of a second. Watched the game again and these linebackers look SLOW. Speed is more important than size here. If you can get a fast guy to bang and try to hold on for a tackle atleast support can come in and help. Our linebackers just were being made irrelevant too often by being outrun. Collins needs to be a full time linebacker.

    • angry angry says:
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      Things are going to happen…the bad snap wasn’t that big of a deal to me. It certainly sucked, but the odds of the Beavers marching down the field for a tying touchdown were not high. By the way Beaver fans talked of the “missed opportunity”, it’s as if that touchdown was a given.

      Biggest issue in my mind was the passiveness all over the field, trickling from the head coach down to players. You can win with slow linebackers if they’re intense and playing with purpose. And if you don’t believe me, watch Boise State do it tomorrow night.

  • OS_Beaver says:
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    I could see Hardin making an impact at linebacker. I think they use him at corner because they trust him to not make stupid interference penalties. He was beat slightly 2 or 3 times in the game and didn’t turn around much, but he was smart enough to not run into the player at all so he wouldn’t get a flag. Poyer is athletic and should be able to keep up at corner as well as Hardin. The secret is be close enough to the player before you turn your head or he could separate too much. Watch him too and if he looks about ready to reach for the ball get in the way but don’t make hardly any contact early or they will flag you. Since #28 had 14 tackles we might as well keep him at safety over corner. I think Hardin at linebacker should be highly considered for faster teams and especially against Oregon where Barner, James and Thomas can all burn you. I am starting to think Banker needs to deliver or we may need to start shopping for a new defensive coordinator. I just don’t see enough progress here or consistency.

  • Quatre Quatre says:
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    It was flat shocking to me to see that defense play that poorly. Even in blowout losses in past seasons there were glimmers that things were going to improve. I saw nothing last night. Just a LB core that can’t make plays and doesn’t have the requisite speed.

    Buckle in for a six loss season fellas. Kinda glad I’ll be missing the first three home games now.

  • Max says:
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    All this talk about the weather affecting the game is ridiculous. I was at the game sitting close to the field and it was pleasantly warm at worst. Remember, the game did not start until 7pm local time and there was no humidity to speak of. Hearing some Dallas writers and TCU players suggest that both sides were fatigued due to the warm weather would making you believe it never gets above 75 degrees in Arlington. It was the first game of the year and both sides were juiced to play.

    • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      I agree 100%. I was at the game too and it was pleasant… not hot, not humid. We’ve played in hotter games in Reser in the sun with our black uniforms.

  • UofDuck says:
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    The real downer in the game for me as a casual outsider was your allowing of Dalton on 3rd and long fake the handoff and gather the first down over and over again. It would be one thing if you guys had never seen the read option, but you do, every year against us. It actually looked way to easy for Dalton.

    • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      You’re right…we can’t defend any sort of read option play…perhaps you missed the last two Civil Wars? We’ll be worse at it this year than every – no speed at OLB to close off the corners. Not sure why we didn’t bring our safeties up – Dalton didn’t really hurt us downfield on a consistent basis.

  • 2 says:
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    If I was the Dcoordinator this is what I would think about doing. Same front four, Collins and Roberson as two MLB, Poyer in at corner plus the 2 regular safeties and Dock. Then play Hardin as a OLB/Safety/corner. Put him close to the line on the slot receiver or wide/strong side of the field. If not Hardin then Collins at this position, this would be the leading tackler on the team. It was frustrating to see. I was calling exactly where they would run the ball every play and we would put one slow OLB close to the wideouts safety behind him 10 yards, but they would have trips to that side, so the 2 wideouts just got to get in front of them and they gain 5+ yards every play

    • angry angry says:
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      That’s what I’d do, too. Since you can’t create a good Middle/Outside LB from scratch, use the personnel you have, you know? There’s a lack of creativity and stubbornness from Banker, though, so that would be a complete paradigm shift.

  • OS_Beaver says:
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    A sell-out for Louisville should cheer us all up. I just want to see the Beavers keep the throttle on high and rack up atleast 35 points. This team still has the potential to win most of their remaining games and do well in the Pac-10 where it really matters. Katz will learn and get more effective and can strike at any moment so the key will really be the D getting much better.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    Angry,

    It would be interesting if you can get some inside thoughts on Bankers philosophy on stopping the spread (read option in particular) and why his teams cannot do it. One of my wise supervisors once said…do not being too harsh on your employees until they make the same mistake three times..then it is a trend that has to be dealt with! They either do not want to improve or do not know how to improve.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    Yeah, I do not get the Phillips benching unless he was too hurt to play or in some time of dog house. Riley coached in the pros, he should know that the best players need to be on the field. I do not buy the no practice, no play crap. Last year, Riley/Banker benched Suaesi #26 when he could not cover anyone, so maybe there will be some changes.
    You know, Wilcox was able to stop the spread with Boise last year. I wonder if he can do the same for the Vols. One would think UT has some similiar athletes to Boise???

    Good job with your op pieces, you have been spot on this year.

    • angry angry says:
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      Thanks, MC. Get a lot of grief for running this site, so it’s rare for anyone to give a compliment.

    • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      My theory with Phillip is that he was lazy and didn’t show effort this fall. A broken nose does not keep you from getting/being in shape. I think he was benched to drive home a point.

  • Beavbelieve says:
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    Disagree on Banker. I give him credit for seeing a weakness by airing the ball out so often deep. Katz hits a couple of those, and the potential TCU “rout” that that people talk about, was really on the verge of being a Beaver “rout!”

  • Beavocalypse says:
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    After spending a few days grumbling I have to say that I really liked the way our offense played, sans some weak blocking- Langsdorf and Seumalo should be commended for their performances…I was happy with the play of the D-line and with the play calling.

    Banker though, needs to be fired. I think a petition needs to get started…Angry, you seem able to effect change, maybe you should look into this. Or maybe we all should start a letter writing campaign to Bobby D…Banker sucks. I’ve been pissed off at this guy since the Ducks raped us in ’08, and he’s only managed to get more and more underwhelming as the years go on.Ugh. Fuck Banker, seriously.

    On a happier note, while some might take issue with Katz’s overthrows I have to say he looked very, very good. Why? he played composed. He played with awareness and composure and yes…his arm saved him from a few interceptions but for the most part when the guy misses, he misses HARD. I think he’ll become quite a leader for this team and he’ll ultimately save this from being a miserable season…

    Oh, and Jacquizz looked like weak sauce. This is probably because the coaching staff treats him and James like fragile glassware during camp. I think Riley needs to make his star players grind it out more during the summer camp…yes, you might lose a guy to injury, but you should have confidence in your back ups…not just have an army of projects that you hope to god don’t have to play in 3 seasons.

    Grrrr…Beavocalypse angry. Angry beav!! grrr…

    Sorry everyone, will control rage next comment.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Banker seems to refuse to adapt to the diversifying offenses of college football. He was highly critical of his own D at the end of fall camp, and nearly every thing predicted by several posters here came true against TCU: weak, slow, out-of-position linebackers flailing around and making arm tackles. It sometimes looks as if Pankey is playing for an Emmy instead of a victory. And how is it that Pankey can miss so much time (spring ball) and still play, and Phillips, clearly a better O-lineman than Pankey is a linebacker, can’t?!? That’s just not consistent logic.

    Was McAndrews able to do ANY run blocking? Phillips was regarded as one of the top guard prospects in the country. He started as a true freshman and has way more experience than McAndrews, there’s no way McAndrews deserves to start over him.

    My brother commented on Riley’s lack of intensity during the game. On the last drive I said “Watch, OSU will choke.” And they did. Anyone remember OSU @ LSU when Riley didn’t get a timeout called at the end? Why didn’t he call one against TCU when Katz was trying to change the play and the receivers clearly didn’t understand what the changes were?

    I enjoyed watching TCU’s defense. It’s like watching the spread offense – they seem to distribute the players and occupy so much of the field. Watching Banker’s scheme was outdated and predictable in comparison.

    I thought Quizz was just trying to keep from getting over-amped about the game; I didn’t think he was weak or disinterested as the commentators suggested. I’m quite sure the only player that wanted to have a better game might have been his brother. Riley can’t afford an injury to Quizz – he unfortunately doesn’t have the depth.

    • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      Ok, I need to stop, but one last thing. Wilder McAndrews played stellar. And there is a little flaw in your logic. Philipp had not played in spring or 90% of Fall Camp. Meanwhile, McAndrews was playing out of his mind during that time and was getting all the reps. I think Philipp will start before Pacific Ten season starts, but McAndrews is a legit D1 starter at tackle and played like it.

      Pankey missed spring but was able to practice all fall camp. So he had about two to three weeks more practice than Philipp did. Now, whether Pankey should have been playing is up to everyone’s interpretation, but Philipp missed far more time than Pankey did.

      Also, the run blocking from the line wasn’t the problem. The fact that they had five blocking nine was a bigger issue. TCU has had the best defense in the nation three of the last five years. They know what they are doing. They are most likely the best defensive coaches in the country, except for maybe Pelini at Nebraska.

      That being said, what probably would have helped Quizz out would have been more intermediate passes and more plays. There really was no way to build momentum with the shortness of the drives, and if the linebackers never have to get off the run because the ball is always going deep, they are not going to adjust. If they are getting burned on pass protection by Halahuni and Nichols, then they are going to have to loosen up on the run.

      Anyway, again, this is all just my opinion, but don’t let the accolades of Philipp cloud your judgement of McAndrews. McAndrews was going to start the Stanford game in 2008 had he not got his first in a series of injuries prior to that game and thus thrust Mike Remmers in to the starting job. He is a great player, very athletic, very nasty and has been in the program for three years.

  • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    Just watched Boise State beat Va. Tech, setting up OSU vs BSU on Sept 25 as a huge game with national championship implications. Great opportunity for the Beavs — again — on a big stage. If the Beavs can beat BSU, no one will care about the opening loss to TCU.

    Fact is, I think the Beavs match up better with BSU than with TCU. As noted in prior comments, OSU can’t seem to stop spread option offenses (such as TCU’s). Lucky for us, BSU runs a pro-style offense, and the Beavs do much better against that type of team. Meanwhile, the BSU secondary looks suspect — Katz and the OSU receivers may be able to exploit that.

    I agree, of course, that OSU linebackers look weak this year, but hopefully there will be improvements and personnel changes in that area between now and Sept 25.

    Assuming that Ryan Katz plays better on Sept 25 (which seems likely — TCU was his first start, after all….), and that OSU can do a better job stopping the run (which also seems likely — since BSU does not run a spread option offense), I think the Beavs have a realistic shot at beating BSU on the blue turf.

    Go Beavers!!

    • angry says:
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      I wouldn’t say the match up much better with BSU. It’s not just about spread/no spread, the level of physical play matters, too. BSU has a physical offensive line, and have you seen the way Doug Martin runs? It’s a mismatch, again, just a different type.

      Interesting that OSU pulled MLB Kurz’s scholarship offer over the weekend. Wonder if they’re going for more speed/hybrid linebackers. Obviously, they should. I don’t have a problem with losing if the coaches learn from the mistakes; but, what I do have a problem with is their belief (until this point at least) that doing the same thing is going to net different results. That, my friend, is the definition of insanity.

      • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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        I agree that it is insane to do the same thing and expect different results. And, like you, I’m not sure Banker is willing or able to make the necessary changes in the Beaver defensive schemes and personnel.

        That being said, I still think the Beavers match up better against Boise State. Sure, BSU’s Martin runs hard, but he is more of an inside runner. Yes, BSU has some horses on their interior O-line, but we match up okay there (Paea, Olander, and Frahm are all big, strong guys who can jam the middle).

        Our run defense struggles more against spread option sweeps, where we can’t get off blocks and contain the corner. I don’t expect Kellen Moore and Doug Martin to do much of that on Sept 25.

        Meanwhile, Va Tech exposed Boise State’s secondary as a step slow on coverage (or so it seemed to me). Assuming Katz improves between now and Sept 25, and that James Rodgers and Markus Wheaton are healthy for the BSU game, that should be good news for the Beavers.

        • angry says:
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          This is what will happen versus Boise:

          1. Moore will throw 6-8 yard hitches/outs/check downs.

          2. Doug Martin will plow forward for a gain of 3-6 yards.

          Over and over and over and over. The way Martin ran last night, I don’t see them slowing that freight train.

          Yes, the Beavs will move the ball, but they’ll have holdings, false starts, and all the other problems that come with inconsistent execution and beating yourself.

          • OS_Beaver says:
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            BSU plays smart and effective football kinda like Arizona does but with a couple more gutsy plays thrown in. Riley is right to focus on possession. As much as we like it when Katz delivers on a deep ball, EVEN MORE critical is keeping drives going. Longer drives should take up more time and keep the other offense off the field (critical for the Beavs). They also have a demoralizing effect like happened to OSU and would have been even more effective had Henry not had that pick. Katz really only gets a maximum of one play out of 3 downs to even consider getting more aggressive. You still have to get the first down or you have FAILED in one of your primary tasks. We gave up on Quizz a little in the first half but the blocking for him did not seem good enough. Regardless Katz has to realize how crucial all his throws are and that THAT down when he is throwing the intermediate pass for the first down only gets one chance. Then hopefully the pass is good enough for Nichols to grab and that loosens the D a little and Quizz and James can be even more effective. Execution is critical and if the D can stop a team without giving up more than a few first downs on a drive than we can get it back and then are putting them in the uncomfortable position. Often times the first series is the easiest to stop them before they get in rythym. You have to know tendencies and surely cannot allow Dalton or anyone else to pick up 8 yards when we wouuld have gotten excellent field position. D getting alot better and Katz and everyone realizing the UTMOST importance of keeping drives going and executing are critical. There are no points for nearly completing a pass but I think Katz sometimes thinks he is doing OK when that happens. Bottom line is though that the play then negatively impacts the drive and you still HAVE to execute for the first down and it is now quite a bit harder. Consistent 5-7 yard plays are the best friend of first downs, possession and key momentum in a game.

          • angry says:
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            They didn’t give up on Quizz in the first half. The OSU offensive gameplan (and rightfully so) was to loosen running lanes by hitting deep passes. If Katz had hit one more throw, you would have seen Quizz churning out yards later in the game. As it stood, TCU felt Katz couldn’t duplicate the two downfield throws he made, so they continued to play the box. It was smart game planning by both teams, and the more well-prepared team executed more and won, which is what you’d figure should and would happen.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            I agree, based on what I saw this weekend, Boise should be able to move the ball at 5-7 yard pops and suck up the clock. Beavers may hit a couple of long balls to keep things interesting early. Got to remember this game is in Boise, they just do not lose at home.

  • Beavker Beavker says:
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    With all the issues, they still had the ball with 2+ left, and I feel a 50-50 shot at scoring. I felt good.

    I just had the feel, that the trenches are where we’re going to get out muscled. On D, the linebackers are not going to help, and on O, hopefully they get better. They pass blocked okay I though. I’d like to see some designed runs for Katz. If that clod-hopper Dalton can run option after option, why can’t Katz fake a hand off to Quizz, or Quizz and James, and then take off on a bootleg, or just design it as a tripple option. Then maybe next time he pulls up and passes it to one of the Rogers?

    I don’t know. I feel bad about the loss, but then it could have been worse, or even a win. But then, in the end, the Beavs are still 0-1.

  • UofDuck says:
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    I thought your last CW run defense was certainly a step forward from the previous, and I suppose I just assumed it would continue to improve. After all, I constantly hear from Beaver Nation, that the read option is a gimmick that will go by the way-side once defenses learn to handle it and Oregon’s offense will fall away…etc. However, it seems that this year, the Beavs took a step back on dealing with it. At least that is how it appeared after game one. I suspect you will improve come CW time – ugh.

  • OSBeavs says:
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    I just watched the game on recording last night because I was on vacation. Holy cow that was rough to watch. I couldn’t believe how much the LB’s were out of position. I know angry didn’t have much comment on the MLBs, the problem starts with them. Robinson played early, the first 3 plays he was on the field he was knocked down by a lineman. The next time he tripped over himself. Wilson didn’t do much better but at least was standing up throughout the play. As a result our OLB’s cheated in for run and pass (as angry astutely noted about Pankey on the first Dalton TD run) . The OLB’s weren’t much to speak of, Roberson had his moments. The biggest problem resulted when the OLB’s couldn’t shed blocks on their way to the outside, we simply got blocked everywhere on D. Our players need some mental toughness, Banker is not providing it.

    I was impressed with our secondary (especially Mitchell), I thought they played much better. We do need a better pass rush though. I think that toomanytouchdowns should be moved to OLB. He likes to hit and defend the run so let him do it and put Collins back at safety.

    I agree that Banker needs to go, I have been saying that for a while. What everyone fails to see is that he will not go unless Riley goes (who I like quite a bit). Banker and Riley’s wives are best friends. Those two families spend vacations together. It is very difficult to fire a family friend.

    Anyone think Langsdorf is gone in short order? I think he is a very good coach, I think he is a head coaching prospect. I would hate to lose him because we lost most of the creativity on our offense.

    As far as offense, Katz played well despite his stats, quite impressive for a young QB in this system. He has a very bright future. As far as Phillips, he didn’t start because he is lazy as hell. IMHO we lost the Zona game last year because of his laziness. I think he will start in the future, hopefully he picks it up.Wilder on the other hand works hard, hard work can make up for a talent gap sometimes.

    Oh, Hekker did choke on the punt but did and anyone see the huge block in the back they put on Roberson who would have made the tackle almost immediately.

  • angry says:
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    From Eggers on defensive changes:

    NOTES: Banker said he is normally concerned about tackling in the early season, “but by and large, it was good” against TCU. “We had a handful of missed tackles, but that will happen.” … Cameron Collins, a starting safety last season who has converted to outside linebacker, played sparingly against the Frogs but worked with the second unit in practice Tuesday. “Cameron made the transition when training camp was over, so he wasn’t ready,” Banker said. “We wound up having a good player not on the field on a regular basis. He needs to grow into that position; this bye week is perfect for him to get some work in. He needs to be on the field for us.” … The Beavers’ nickel defense in recent seasons has meant a tackle is removed and a middle linebacker — Alan Darlin or David Pa’aluhi — steps into a pass-rushing role. That will change this season, with middle ‘backer Tony Wilson or Rueben Robinson leaving the field and Collins or swift outside ‘backer Michael Doctor coming in. “That’s like a fifth defensive back on the field,” Banker said.

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    You guys have been watching this closely. Could someone give a review of last years LB’s and DL, and then a view of who will mostly fill those positions this year, and how (if at all) its changed. Thanks.

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