01.Nov.2010 Mindset: Oregon Ducks vs Oregon State Beavers

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I was looking at the Ducks' schedule earlier trying to guess where they'd slip up. While scrolling through the games, it hit me that Beaver fans have had an excuse for every Duck victory. Maybe excuse isn't the right word. They just find a way to abate Duck victories. I thought it would be interesting to ponder Beaver fans' mindset playing the same schedule. Correct me if and when I'm wrong.

 

Duck Fan

 

Beaver Fan

 

New Mexico

 

"We're going to blow these guys out 72-0!"

"We should win big, but who knows? New Mexico has some legit DI talent!”

@Tennessee

 

"Am I crazy, or do these guys stink?"

"Mother $%!# Bob D!?! scheduling an SEC team on the road in September!? Let’s just hope we save face on National TV."

Portland State

“Wake me up when the Season starts."

or

"I've been curious to see what ____ (insert 5th string running back) can do."

"We're probably going to win 45-10, but remember Appalachian State?"

@Arizona State

“Our first decent challenge. I'm a little nervous, but we’ll win. We always win.”

“We never win at Tempe.” [Beaver fan begins to ponder all the loses]. "Something will go wrong."

Stanford

“Sure, these guys could theoretically beat us, but they are slow as whale shit, so we’ll probably run around them and win big. National TV, you say???”

“Their offensive line sure is physical. This is a scary game. We need to pressure Andrew Luck, establish the blah blah blah. ESPN Gameday? Forget it.”

@WSU

“Let the Heisman race begin!”

“This is the one game we can relax. Or can we?”

UCLA

“ESPN? Ha ha ha, this is going to be a fun statement game.”

“We never play well down there; we never play well on ESPN. UCLA always has one guy tee off on us and take over the game. I’m optimistic but scared.”

@USC

“National TV? Again? Did we mention we like attention? Let the love begin, Hal.”

“Barkley is crap."….("I hope that's true")…"USC has nothing to play for"…("I hope that's true…"). Oh crap, ABC picked the game up??”

Washington

"No Jake Locker? Thanks for the bye week."

"No Jake Locker? Nick Montana was a 4-star prospect–we better show up ready to play!"

@California

“We’re going to crush these midgets.”

“Trap game!”…or “We have their number, but they’re capable and talented blah blah.”

Arizona

“The have a fast, physical defense. This is the hardest game on our schedule. But hey, we’re the Ducks and they’re not.”

“We matchup well against this team. Feels like a pick ‘em. But can that be right?”

@Oregon State

“The Reign of Terror continues. Poor Beaver fans. See you losers in Glendale.”

“We’re going to lose a 3rd straight Civil War. We’re going to get killed. They're unstoppable. They're going to win a National Championship. Kill me.”

That's how I see it. Am I off my rocker?

I don't think so. Beaver fans are quick to dismiss what the Ducks do, yet their team could not accomplish the same feats. It's a second rate mindset that reeks of bitterness. The reality is the Ducks are not only better than the Beavs; they are better than everyone. There is no room for criticism. That is the weight a #1 ranking carries.

One final point: I contend the Ducks' success is good for the Beavers. As a Duck fan astutely noted earlier, it means more revenue and respect for the conference as a whole, but more importantly, the Ducks dominance (and a 3rd consecutive Civil War) puts pressure squarely on the Beavers program. Put another way: the larger the Ducks' footprint, the less patient Beaver fans will be with the status quo.

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  • Overrated says:
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    OVER RATED!!!!

  • ean says:
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    I’m kind of confused as to the point of this exercise. Yeah it is a bummer that the Ducks are so far ahead of the Beavers but we are building towards bigger things. I mean sure it would be nice if we could put out a Pac-10 contender every year but we just don’t have the resources. What is your suggestion Angry? or do you just criticize?

    To me I just don’t see how we are going to get over the hump and contend every year. I think our best bet is to bring in lopsided recruiting classes and fill in the holes with JuCo’s, which appears to be the mentality right now. I am fine with competing for a Rose Bowl for a couple of years, then going to a lower tier bowl for a couple of years and repeating until we can make the next step. Maybe we can tinker with some things on O and D, maybe even change some position coaches but I don’t think anyone can do a better job of Riley. I mean if we hire the next Pete Carroll he will be gone for a pay day in a couple of years. So really the best course is to stay the course. Although it would be sweet if we could hire on Speckman in some fashion. I am not saying we should be content with the current status quo just patient because Riley and Co. are working towards what we as fans want.

    If we want to win the Civil War this year we could always get a bunch of IV’s and put EPO’s into the athletes at half… it is funny but true.

    • angry angry says:
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      You really don’t see the point?
      Read the internet. Beaver fans abate every Duck victory. Victories their team would likely not attain! The Ducks success should be the goal, not shunned. The jealousy is palpable. I’m talking about it, and talking about our fans. Why? Because it’s annoying to hear the twisted reasoning of the defeated.

      • ean says:
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        It is annoying but those people aren’t really fans of OSU so much as Duck haters. The Ducks also have plenty of them too. I have seen Duck fans in the comment boards after a big UofO win and all they do is bash the Beavs. Some people are dumb.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    It seems like this Duck team is a juggernaut, so I do not know what else you can do, but tip your hat. Are Duck fans really that cocky though, given the BSU and Ohio State games where they were physically dominated last year? To me Darron Thomas has made the difference for them. What an amazing talent.
    On the flipside, are Beaver fans that neurotic? I mean the defense is not good, so it is always a pick em except against WSU. Things change quickly in college football..players get injured, leave early..etc,etc. I guess I would have to study Oklahoma State living in the shadow of Oklahoma to get a sense of how your theory applies.

    • angry angry says:
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      This isn’t a science. It’s just a combination of (honest) thoughts about going against a given opponent combined with what I read from fans on the net. I tried to weigh both equally. Even if it’s gravitates toward hyperbole, I think the general idea is accurate.

    • Beavker says:
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      I’m not sure Wazzu is a lock either…sadly.

      Yes, it does seem Duck fans are more Band Wagony, in the sense that it’s sort of ‘cool’ to be a Duck fan. Great for them, but sucks for the real fans that have followed them through leaner years…as we Beaver fans know.

  • angry angry says:
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    This is interesting:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibling_rivalry

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    Stop straying…apparently our opinions are not good enough for you??? You expect logical stuff from Beaver Blitz and Benny Beaver blog or whatever the hell those other forums are called?

    • angry angry says:
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      Haha.

      I must admit, I am addicted to reading what the septuagenarian fan base believes. The positive is that they will soon be dead. But then who will go to games?!?

      We need Warren and his kin to move out west.

  • OneEyedKing says:
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    Confidence (or arrogance) is not a replacement for skill. The Beavers, not the Ducks, are the 2nd best team in the Pac10 over the past decade.

    We’ve beaten numerous top-3 teams over the past 10 years, the Ducks have not. Have we missed a bowl game in that span? The Ducks certainly have (and we beat them to knock them out of contention, if I recall). Knocking a team out of bowl contention is more embarrassing than a tight game loss for the Rose Bowl.

    Don’t mistake humility for weakness, angry; pride cometh before the fall. Yes, the Ducks have a scary gimmick offense right now, and their defense is great at playing from ahead and creating turnovers. But we have gamers too, and because we’re humble, we will never overlook a game.

    In sum, different mindsets do no prove different levels of success; different mindsets prove different mindsets. If you want to be an arrogant ass who’s super-proud of crushing PSU, you should root for the other Oregon team. Just don’t complain to us when basketball, baseball, and wrestling season begin, and UO has nothing to brag about.

    • angry angry says:
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      How are you defining 2nd best Pac-10 team? The Ducks have 100 wins over the past decade; the Beavs have 84.

      Your reasoning is odd. Getting knocked out of the Rose Bowl race two straight years is more embarrassing than knocking a team out of some tenth rate bowl, like the Humanitarian. Though, I’d use the word humiliating or demoralizing, not embarrassing.

      • OneEyedKing says:
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        Their results fluctuate, ours don’t nearly as much. We make a bowl game every year, we went to a BCS bowl game, we always finish 2-3. Counting win’s by itself is pretty worthless.

        And fighting for the Rose Bowl and losing twice isn’t embarrassing or humiliating. Yeah, it’s demoralizing, but it happens.

        What IS embarrassing and humiliating is fighting for ANY bowl in your rivalry game, and losing. Because then you have to watch your rival play in a bowl game while your season is over. THAT is bad.

        Like I said before, humility is not weakness; it’s the BEST way to prepare. You think Kobe goes to Minnesota and says, “Hey, easy win!”? No.

        So how about UO wins a few championships (in any sport) before you start talking about their mindset like it’s worthwhile.

  • JackBeav says:
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    Am I jealous?

    Well, I want what the Ducks have in terms of success and resources. But I want my team to earn it over time. I don’t want the garish purchase of overnight success… or the garish uni’s either.

    So technically I’m jealous that we have yet to attain the same level, but I’m not jealous of what they specifically have any more than I was jealous of what Alabama had last year… or what any #1 team has ever.

    But I also know that championships are fleeting things. The span of the years we can call the ‘sweet spot’ for any coach are proportionate to the amount of time it took to lay the foundation for that success.

    Trick offenses come and go. And some burn like phosphorous before they go away. If the Ducks win a BCSC (or two) with theirs before it burns out, so be it. They’re one of the lucky upstarts who attained balanced levels of respect and ability at the same time.

    The last time I saw an offense I thought couldn’t be stopped, I was watching a young Houston team and the run and shoot. Remember when Jenkins took over for Pardee he had that team firing on all cylinders… plus some extra it seemed. It took a Herculean effort from Texas to keep Houston out of the NC contention. And it looked like they were going to crush it again in 1991, but Miami just dismantled them, and they lost all their swagger.

    I love our offense. I want a better offensive line and a better defense. I think those are on the near horizon with what I consider last year’s very good recruiting class (albeit small) and some excellent o-line prospects in the pipeline. When we have all the pieces, our offense cannot be stopped, and our defense can run down the tricksters to the south.

    We don’t have all the pieces, but they do at the moment. So in that respect I guess I am a little jealous.

    But they are one snap away from a third place league finish and a bunch of whining about being on their fifth string QB. So we got that going for us.

  • CastorNation says:
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    I think this article of Beaver fans is about as accurate as painting all Duck fans as shut ins, living in Mom’s basement. Actually the most pessimistic post I read are yours Angry, and Duck fans on O Live. As you have pointed out before, Beaver Nation wears orange and black glasses. I think if the Ducks called plays in the same manner as the Beavers they wouldn’t be in 1st. And maybe if it were the other way around, who knows?

  • JackBeav says:
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    And I have yet to meet any Duck fan not hiding behind some internet anonymity who subscribes to the left side of your chart. That’s mostly what I say to them as they play the right side. Maybe they gain more confidence as the year goes on, but I remember every fan I know (some two dozen I talked to that week) hemming and hawing about Wazzu and ‘you never know’.

    You never know what? If some NFL team is gonna come in and put on Wazzu uni’s for this game? Seriously people?

  • angry angry says:
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    So what you guys are saying is you don’t agree with this post. Let the mutiny begin!

    Seriously, though, unless the people on forums, blogs/newspapers are not good representations of fans, then I stand by it. I lost count of how many people complained about Bob D’s scheduling. Meanwhile, Oregon goes to Tennessee and kills it. Beavers reply with “bad, rebuilding TN team.”
    That is just lame.

    • JackBeav says:
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      Now, now…

      The Ducks have been lucky in scheduling for the past decade. And the one non-con game that wasn’t lucky in getting a down team was lucky in getting a REALLY BAD call to go their way.

      Let’s be clear. They start their season with the one team who has never been ranked in the top 25… ever. They follow that with a 1-AA team and one of two teams that Fink managed to destroy in the last year. Ok… he didn’t destroy USC… yet.

      Then they get to league play, and they run into some more stout teams than they’re used to. But they overcome due to some luck and a lot of good play.

      There’s no denying that they’re very good… even deserving of #1 at this time. But they play with fire at the beginning of ever

      • JackBeav says:
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        …y game. And they’re going to be burned because of it. It might be Arizona. It might be us. But most likely it looks like it’s going to be Cam Newton.

    • ean says:
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      I really don’t think people on forums are good representatives of either fan base. Also I have no problems with the Duck schedule. For a team that starts out the season ranked high it makes sense to play easy OOC games. Look how many teams are always ranked in the SEC (granted it is a great football conference but it is still crazy how many teams are ranked). Yeah the Ducks have gotten lucky and caught some teams in off years. Beavers have caught a few breaks too…. luck plays a big role in college football, if it didn’t then the games would just be played on paper.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    I mean I do not think it is just Beaver fan jealousy to say lets wait and see on the Ducks . It is not a stretch to say that they were dominated in the two really tough non-conference games they played last year. I am a little dubious of the overall defensive talent in the P-10 the last couple of years and Chip Kelly is certainly taking advantage of it. On the otherhand, Boise St. and Ohio St did not have a lot of problems stopping the spread option, but the P-10 teams cannot do it despite having seen it two of three times now? If Oregon had played teams like TCU and BSU by now (on the road) and dominated them by three scores, then you would have to say they are unstoppable. They may still be unstoppable, like I said before Thomas seems to be the big difference between this year and last. The Masoli meltdown seems to have been a blessing in disguise for them. They may very well dominate the P-10 for years to come, but they still need to win that statement game on the national level. Does that sentiment reek of bitterness? Guilty as charged.

    • ean says:
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      I agree that the Pac-10 is not as good as some people wanted to say. The ND and Texas wins aren’t too impressive anymore. But the Pac-10 is still a top 3 conference, maybe top 2 and it is just my opinion but I think Oregon beats TCU and BSU, but who knows for sure. I mean the Beavs weren’t playing that well and they hung with those teams. To me BSU and TCU are just outside the top-10 when it comes to their actual strength. Then again without a real way to tell with head to heads then it is all just guess work and your opinion could be as valid as mine.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    And I do not even mean TCU or BSU specifically. Just that type of team on the road (Oregon fans I do not think Stanford was it). I would love to see BSU/Oregon play again, but Auburn/UO would be interestingtoo. Also, when I think of true domination, I think of the Nebraska teams of the mid-90s, where the opponent was just helpless to either score or stop the option. My guess is most head coaches feel good about being able to score on the Oregon defense, they just cannot stop the offense. It will be interesting to see if the Ducks can have that breakthrough.

    • angry angry says:
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      The Ducks put so much pressure on opposing offenses to score EVERY possession, that it’s almost their defense as well–psychological domination via mind games.

      • ean says:
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        agreed…. that is why the Beavers have to finish up the season aggressive so it is second nature come CW. We need to be in constant 4 down territory inside the 50, refuse to settle for 3’s (they are not really automatic anyway). Maybe even work in the onside out of the normal kickoff formation. On D we got to continue to take risks like the Cal game. Of course we will get burned on some of those risks but Oregon will score regardless of taking risks and forcing a turnover is worth giving up a score in 30 seconds verse a minute thirty.

        Come to think of it maybe we should onside every kick in the Civil War. It sounds crazy but think about it. If the Ducks are scoring TD’s on ~80% of their drives (not sure on the exact number) it might make sense from a practical standpoint.

        One thing for sure is we need some outside the box thinking. I know this staff can do it because they have in the past with the fly sweep. We just got to keep innovating and taking risks.

        • angry angry says:
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          I agree–I think the next few weeks the Beavers should stress efficiency, long drives with TDs at the end, etc. Basically, start preparing for the Ducks now. The only way the Beavs beat them is 10 minute drives with TDs at the end. They have to start building that mindset before the week of the game.

          People have been on Katz a bit all season, and I’ve given him a pass, but this second half of the season he needs to step up and start taking the short throws the defense gives him. Versus the Ducks, a 2nd & 4 (rather than a 1st & 10 after a bomb attempt) will allow the team to maintain long drives.

          Not to say they should look ahead, but they should start refining things, molding an identity (i.e. efficient/tough/long drives) that could challenge the Ducks. The great thing about doing that, is it will work versus UCLA et al as well.

      • Beavker says:
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        Plus, that D is tired. They have about 2 minutes and they are back out on the field. Mostly it’s to run hard on a Kick off but even failed drives are done quick. Not a long, drive sustaining, Defense resting offense down their in Eugene, so the D is probably better than it looks…if not in great shape.

  • UofDuck says:
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    ean is 100% correct…. Ramlings here – my apologies.

    I know you guys don’t want to hear from a Duck at this point – after all this is a Beaver Blog, so I will lay low for a while and just read. You guys are good reads though. You really know your team and ball in general.

    My take on OSU – given that James is returning now, it looks more and more as though OSU is in a rebuilding year and yet still has a real shot at the Pac title this season. That is remarkable. If you get by Stanford – game on! OSU is doing great given a rookie QB at the helm. However, what really scares me is next year. I think you guys are going to be unreal on offense. I don’t watch you close enough to know your line play, and who is a senior on your line and such (I know you have a solid O-line coach tho), but Wheaton, Katz, James, Quizz…. that is legit (dang that traitor Wheaton). If you can gel on D, you are good to go for a run in the Pac north next year.

    I know I am stating the obvious, but the hard part about college football for me is who really knows how good anyone is, because there are 120 teams and each only play 13 games. It is far too subjective. As a fan, we can all pick everything apart that every team does, or doesn’t do, or should have done – even with our own teams – ala AngryBeavs.com.

    As for the Ducks, I am not 100% confident that we are the best team in country every week – see our ASU game, yet I don’t see any other team that is standing out as such either, so I’m okay with it until possibly proven otherwise. I know our D is suspect at times and one can’t live on turnovers forever. I also know a combo of a big D line push, mixed with solid LB/safety play is death for the read-option run attack. Although, Thomas does give us other options with his arm now. But to think we can’t stumble is homerish. I think I read where only 3 pac 8/10 teams have ever gone undefeated and all three ended up National Champions – so the odds are really against us.

    • cloudy says:
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      well, the talent at the skill positions on offense will be remarkable next year. but, linnenkohl is gone after this year, i think, and the offensive line returns everybody (which is a bad thing i think, aside from Phillipp).

      i like the talent they will have on defense, though.

    • OneEyedKing says:
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      Well-put.
      It’s really, really hard to know who’s #1 and who’s #3 when they don’t play identical schedules. But as long as UO stays undefeated, they’re probably #1. Congrats.

      But it’s just so hard to go undefeated in the Pac10; there are always like 4 legit contenders, and the next 4 can knock you off if you take the game off. It’s just too hard.

  • Jim S says:
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    Boy, sure sounds like a lot of jealousy from some otherwise quite reasonable Beaver fans.

    I haven’t been a college football fan for much over a decade, but even I can realize that what the Ducks have achieved this year (#1 ranking) and might achieve (attendance in the BCS championship game) is hardly a flash in the pan success story. The program has been slowly building and maintaining success since the Rose Bowl year in the 90s. And I’ve even heard people talk about Rich Brooks doing a lot of building from the 80s on.

    I find their flamboyance to be off-putting at times, especially when it was not backed up by on-field performance (mid 2000s). But, frankly, their department has done what it had to do to become relevant, while being tucked away in a small Oregon city.

    I was fairly skeptical of Kelly as head coach for awhile. But, I have come to realize that his system has potentially innovated college football. His practice regime, singular focus on the next game, and offensive scheme have his team operating at a higher level than most any other team in the country. It has hid some talent (D line) and coaching (D Coord.) deficiencies in the process.

    To compare the 2010 Ducks to the 2009 Ducks is silly. To call their offense a gimmick is petty. When their OOC was scheduled several years ago, New Mexico, Tennessee, and Western Michigan (MAC) probably looked like a fairly robust slate.

    Obviously teams will adapt to try and stop them in the future. But in the greatest form of flattery, I think many teams will adopt some elements of Kelly’s system in the near future. Listen to the way Lane Kiffin and other coaches have been talking.

    • Fishwrapper says:
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      One should not have been skeptical of Kelly at all. A cursory investigation of what he did at the University of NH before coming to Oregon puts these past few years is a very understandable context. The big differences between his job in NH and in OR are that his current school is Div. 1, a promotion from 1-AA (now FCS) that he arguably earned while at UNH, and the school he now works for has a sugar daddy to make dreams come true.

      I can’t help but wonder if folks are more upset that he came up through the ranks faster than expected; and yet, the teams he’s been with have, too. I’m just saying…there is a lot of coaching talent below the big division; credit the Ducks for spotting the talent before anyone else did.

      That said, I can’t wait for the “unstoppable” to be stopped in a big way!

  • beavers4life says:
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    My biggest problem with the ducks is they have played only 2 teams with winning records at this point: Stanford and USC.

    The fact they played an SEC team who is a bottom feeder in their conference should matter. Saying that, “Hey we beat an SEC team” is playing into the idea that the SEC is better than the Pac-10 as a whole conference(which it’s not). If they had played @ Florida and the same outcome occurred as the Tennessee game, then I would give the ducks a little more credit for beating an SEC team since Florida is a better quality team and has a polished coach with Urban Meyer vs a brand new head coach. See the difference? No, ok let me go on.

    They also say that the Pac-10 isn’t a “weak” conference, but yet they point out that it’s inconsistent in each teams play. Meaning that any pac-10 team can beat another pac-10 team on any given day. If the Civil War were to be played this Saturday, I would be scared of a blowout because our defense isn’t consistent enough yet to be able to play and scheme to play with the ducks. When the Civil War comes around and depending on if we beat Stanford and USC and by how much, then I’d say that we have a good shot of pulling off the upset. Also, it’s the Civil War and our true rivalry game. And the Beavs play better at home than they do on the road due to the crowd this year. Expect good things to come in the next 5-6 weeks!

  • ObjCritic says:
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    I get what you’re saying, but I think its less productive than comparing Kelly and Riley and how their approaches are manifest on the field. There’s a better chance of trying to get OSU to improve its coaching than to change fan base mentality. Most fans do not think, they react emotionally; they “believe” rather than understand, and debate from their.

    A friend of mine told me two or three weeks ago that UO’s schedule is “no weaker than anyone else’s in the country,” which is a patently false and thoughtless statement. She’s not stupid, but she was reacting defensively and emotionally as a fan, rather than thoughtfully.

    Getting back to the coaches, try to guess who is responsible for these (paraphrased) quotes from the past two years, and tell me it doesn’t show on the field:

    “The civil war is a great tradition, and I’m happy to be a part of it.”

    “_______ is a great person and a fine coach, that said, the ________ are going to win the civil war.”

    “We still need to find our identity.”

    “We want to be the fastest team in the country.” and “I challenged our defense and special teams to score 10 td’s this year.”

    UO is a legitimate NC contender this year. I would quibble about their D a bit, because I think #1 teams should have a dominant D, but watching Kelly not only take the other teams out of the game mentally, but emotionally, is impressive. Its like a few teams can run with the Ducks through gears 1 – 3, but then the ducks go through 4, 5, and 6, and before you know it, opposing teams are so out of it emotionally, they can no longer perform at a high level mentally and physically as they might have for 2 quarters.

    Watching UO throw those passes down the middle made me think how ugly the CW is likely to get. And holding the ball on long drives doesn’t necessarily work because they don’t need or want time-of-possession for their offense – they want a high number of possessions. I think its demoralizing to a team to work the clock, score, and then watch UO score in 2 – 4 minutes over and over. And a team like OSU, that doesn’t play at a high, focused level for 4 quarters, risks getting run out of the stadium like USC did.

    Finally, I don’t think its a “gimmick” offense – it requires a great deal of discipline to run it effectively, particularly at a high pace. Sure offenses/defenses evolve, but don’t criticize Kelly for not “evolving” when he hasn’t yet had to. He’s 18-3 as a first time head coach, with losses to BSU, Ohio State, and Stanford(? can’t recall?). If/when opposing teams catch up with defensive schemes and performances, and Kelly doesn’t adjust, then maybe you criticize him. But after watching the USC game, I suspect there’s a lot more in the UO playbook that nobody’s seen yet.

  • AntiBeaver says:
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    You couldn’t be farther from truth on this post.

    I read your BS schedule breakdown and I don’t know a single OSU fan that would agree with that.

    Sometimes you’re spot on. Other times you are so far off base it is rediculous.

    • angry angry says:
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      So the people on forums, message boards, and blogs are not fans? I can go back to these games and copy/paste comments that back me up, so how am I wrong?

      There’s a difference between no OSU fans agreeing with the sentiment and it being false.

  • MonkeyLuven MonkeyLuven says:
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    Firstly, that exercise was structured in an unfair manner. It was given regarding the ducks schedule in season’s order, but that wasn’t our schedule or mentality this year. Granted, I still get your “club me over the head” point.

    Secondly, I agree with your “Cal Afterthoughts” post. We are significantly lacking in multiple facets of the game and Cal only helped to cover those up. But we sure did need that confidence boost!

    Given the schedule we’ve had, no game has been a gimme. My thought always was that the middle 1/3 of the PAC-10 games would be nothing but W’s. Then we lost to UW. I still anticipate us beating UCLA by a close 14 (true beaver fashion) and soundly against WSU. After that I’m assuming 1, maybe 2 of our last 3. Confidence is our key right now!

    Thinking from a psychological perspective while talking to a colleague, we discussed beating Oregon. Not our odds, but just how to counter their speed and attack. I don’t talk strategy in terms of X’s and O’s much, but I felt that this had more of a mental approach:

    We are big time underdogs as of now in the season. USC attempted for multiple weeks to get their 4-5 star athletes conditioned to play the same as Oregon and still got stomped in the Coliseum. From here on out, for the remainder of the season, we do our best to forget that an OSU defense even exists. A tough-one, right?

    That’s because our goal for the remainder of the season is to create the most powerful, drive-extending, 3rd down converting, touchdown scoring offensive machine we can. Six, seven, eight minute drives without the thought of Kahut anywhere near the redzone. Now granted, James being out is almost detrimental to this equation, but he not only left early enough in the season to get his redshirt, but also early enough for others to step into respected, mainstream roles. That’s important heading into the final 1/3 of our season.

    The way this truly helps us though, is to allow the Beavers to begin preparation for the #1 team in the nation. Over a month in advance! The offensive system seems sound (and very SEC like), but the confidence that will come from the offense controlling the game and the defense being off the field, but supporting the winning ways of the team will keep all motivation high from week to week. We don’t have the luxury of good D, so championships must be won with a good O (Ducks mantra).

    Come Civil War time, the Beavers should be confident in their ability to control the game at their own speed (rather than trying to keep up with the ducks. i.e., see Craig Robinson’s past BBX teams). When the Ducks to get on the field, our D is fresh, but their not expected to stop them or prolong their drives. What the Beavs D is looking to do is go for the big hits (high risk/high reward)! With as prone as the Ducks are to turning the ball over in their high-octane scheme (vs the Beavs only good national stat of fewest turnovers), we then give ourselves the greatest advantage of converting points off of a mistake. If not, the D gets scored on in 1:10 and the Beavs offense goes back to work for 7+ minutes.

    Personally this is the only way in which I see the Beavers capable of disrupting the Duck’s usual patterns and potentially causing dissonance among their general game-time beliefs. If we can ever lead in the game (by more than a score), they will in a sense be on their heels. But this time, we’ll be mentally prepared for their onslaught and give ourselves the best chance to counteract their wicked ways and come away with a (slight) win at Reser.

    But more than anything, this is a mentality that must be instilled in the players among all else. The season is half-way thru and our identity must be solidified with goals stretched father than just the next week. The Ducks must know that we’re coming for them. But we must know it first.

    • MonkeyLuven MonkeyLuven says:
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      I also wanted to comment on the Ducks sideline picture-in-picture play calling system. It, like their offense, is not gimmecky. Psychologically speaking, pictures become interpreted quicker in our brains with symbols holding more information then sequential letters and numbers. This allows the Ducks to further focus their game on speed and the intricacies of deception.

      Just one more thing that they are doing well AND first in the nation. Don’t be jealous, just learn from the advancements and make the adjustments before the next guy.

      • angry angry says:
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        This is an interesting question: if you’re a Beaver coach, and deep down you think the Ducks approach is better, do you switch? CAN you switch without looking like thieves?

        • MonkeyLuven MonkeyLuven says:
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          Riley told the media today why he ran 20 straight drills last week without a break:

          “I was talking to a coaching friend and they have gone to do that just to get more reps..
          We’re probably doubling our reps.. I know it’s pretty taxing on them but I hope it helps.”

          Sounds as though Riley is (somewhat) open to mid-season adjustments.
          As for the overt “theft” of ideas such as the play-calling images, the only real question is, “who’s gonna be the first?”

  • cloudy says:
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    i usually agree with most of what you say, angry, but i disagree with you here.

  • OS_Beaver says:
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    As I was watching the Cal game from Section 225 with all the other Beaver Bombardiers I couldn’t help but imagine what Reser could be like with a new west side and maybe a complete horsehoe and 2nd level in the south endzone as well. I thought..you know if we had 55+K seats and a wicked stadium I bet Beaver Nation would be wthin a game of the Ducks most years and would just have to win the Civil War to win the North. I thought..I bet we could even see multiple CCGs at Reser in a decade if we dreamed big. Sometimes you have to take some risks and go for it if you want to be great. If the majority of the new seats had Valley View style pricing and they really made it affordable for most fans, and we really got behind this thing from all members of Beaver Nation then I think that the state of Oregon would dominate the North for years to come and the Beavers could be almost neck and neck with the Ducks. We can’t be complacent, but need vision and leadership and then I think OS Football could reach an elite level. In the middle of the North division, the Oregon schools are a natural for dominance and getting to the vast majority of the CCGs. I could easily see 55+K Beaver fans going wild for a few CCG at Reser and that is an exciting prospect to continue to grow the program towards. If we did it right Beaver Nation could have one of the most passionate fan bases always filling a beautiful expanded Reser and looking good under the limelight. I could see us becoming a consistent top 15 to 18 team nationally once we get that new side built. Riley and the program now is too comfortable between 25 and 30. We must demand more.

  • JackBeav says:
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    I think we don’t have a clear understanding of what is and is not a gimmick.

    The read option offense is not a gimmick. It’s the option. It has been out of favor in D-1 football for some 20 years save a couple places, and defensive coordinators are unable to stop it and several wrinkles within it because they were trained to stop more recent schemes. The pendulum will swing back to contain such offenses, but they will never go away because of the cyclical nature of a very large pool of teams. The reason it will never catch on in the NFL is because personnel would just get killed against a more concentrated skill level and coaching that can’t afford to have no sense of history.

    The gimmick in Kelly’s scheme is the speed at which his offense plays. If not for that pace, the read option would be just another offense that one school runs well for a couple years then disappears within its cycle. Opposing coaches are looking too much at the plays and not enough at what happens between the plays. When someone (tOSU) dominates the play, Kelly whines about stolen signs or what not, and he develops a new game to draw the opposition into his mind even more between each play (the quad boards). But his offense is not the special part of UO’s game. The mind games are.

    Now watch the UO offense closely while they rush to play at the speed they do. Notice they line up quickly with the supposed threat that they would just snap the ball if the defense tried to sub personnel. And about half the time they actually just play at that pace, which is fine. But it takes the refs out of the game as well as the opposition.

    Notice that one of UO’s receivers ran off the field, and a replacement ran on? Yet they still run at the previous pace. That’s on the opposing coach for doing nothing. When he sees the opposition sub personnel, he needs to call for an immediate personnel switch on his side. Let them go and snap the ball in the middle of the substitution. It’s a five yard penalty on them. And their sideline gets a warning not to do it again, or all subsequent violations will be of the 15 yard variety. But the refs are put on notice at that point as well. When they notice these subs by the O, they need to hold the play until the D can reasonably sub (and get in position) as well.

    Another rule UO frequently breaks is the one which mandates that all O personnel must come inside the numbers between each play. Whether they sub in or took part in the last play does not matter.

    Now notice that they hurried to the line without a play call? The QB looks to see if the default play call will work against the D alignment, then he turns to look at the bench for an adjustment. Meanwhile, the O-line are all in position (hands down and/or on the ball) for an immediate snap. The rules clearly state that once a covered O-lineman put his hand on the ground he may not move that hand or make any move which simulates the beginning of a play. In fact, the only O-lineman who can move his hands is the center. But he is not allowed to move out of his stance once he puts his hand on the ball. So when you see all these O-linemen stand up and turn to look for the play call, you see a rule violation with each one. And if the center moves any part of his body out of his stance other than his hands (to point or dry his hands or adjust the ball… but not in any quick motion), then he is also breaking about three different (all saying the same thing).

    You may ask, “Why don’t these violations get flagged?”

    Well, the substitution violation needs to be forced by the opposition’s coaches to make it apply first. But the real gimmick of Kelly’s offense is what makes eveyone on the field dizzy during the game. And Pac 10 refs are dizzy enough as it is. This is the same group of people who stopped a Wazzu kick-off after a TD and missed PAT against UCLA to review the previous TD call… and took the TD away from Wazzu. And not even the announcers said anything about the PAT play already having been run and the kick-off teams being on the field already.

    ?

    Then you get a UCLA DT (Carter) clipped by the UO center on the left hash as the QB is rolling to the sideline (that makes the clip 30 yards behind the play). Understandably, Carter is lying on the field in pain, but the Autzen crowd is booing loudly and chanting something that made ESPN feel they had to hit the panic button (that’s why the sound kept clipping during that game). And you have Kelly standing with his arms out in some comical appeal to the crowd or the refs or whomever. Then they pan out to see what caused Carter’s supposedly ‘fake’ injury, and nobody breathes a word during or after the obvious intent to harm him. They just go on as if they see nothing… not even a, “Well, I didn’t see anything,” to the fellow moron in the booth.

    ?

    The kicker is that none of these violations are reviewable. Even if they were, what review official would have time to review it? The on-field officials are clueless enough without having to involve some geek watching a replay.

    I’ve played enough sport to tell you quite firmly that most refs have no clue about the minutia within the rules, and to ask them to halt a game for something they don’t understand risks them being embarrassed for the sake of being correct. Hell, most players and fans don’t understand the rules very well either. How many of you out there know what the correct cal is when a hoopster is standing in his backcourt, steps across the half-court line and steps back? I had a coach who carried a rulebook with that rule bookmarked because every ref and opposing player, coach and fan (every last one) thought they knew the rule better than the rules themselves, and we had offensive tricks to break pressure at the timeline involving specifically that rule. If we didn’t carry the rulebook with us, we would have been the smucks who were embarrassed on that play. But we would have been right.

    So that’s what I mean by a trick or gimmick offense. It’s designed to mask sloppy rule-breaking in the name of innovation or efficiency. And nobody has been smart enough to counter the mind game with a mind game of their own. Thus far, the opposition has tried to take it to the Ducks on the field. They’re good enough during the play. But the gimmicks between the plays are what allows them to bomb the game.

    Is it petty to call out the rulebook? It’s a game with rules. You tell me.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Interesting observations and points. I watch people in management and politics who use the same approach andcontrol issue conversations/debates (“games”) by creating a false context, and getting people to operate within that context. The other parties don’t realize, critically, what is occurring and they’re focused on the wrong point – the context is not accurate to begin with (or in your examples above, legal).

      Given the rules you point out, and assuming they’re true and accurate, its surprising to me that some coach hasn’t called this out, in advance, with a tape and written complaint in ADVANCE of a game with Oregon, so the refs look for it. If the rules were enforced, it would be very disruptive to Oregon, because they would have to change their whole operational behavior within the course of a game.

    • cloudy says:
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      interesting observations. i’m surprised no coach has ever actively lobbied the officials to call the offensive linemen on lifting their hands/heads up.

      the problem with the spread option right now is that when the offense spreads you out, all of your players need to be able to make open field tackles. the reason it’ll never work in the nfl is because everyone on the field can make open field tackles the majority of the time. in college there’s a serious lack of depth at the defensive positions, and lots of players can’t tackle anybody in the open field. i think, eventually, teams are going to move most of their best athletes to defense, in order to try and stop other teams’ spread attacks.

      • JackBeav says:
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        This is a good point also. The personnel strengths are cyclical as well. As schemes are solved, coaches generally recruit the better athletes to help them solve these schemes. So the talent gap betwee the offenses and defenses in the NCAA are more apparent at this time and exacerbated by the ‘big hit’ mentality rather than sound tackling.

        I didn’t think our defense was very good last year, but they solved UO’s scheme well. If any number of some dozen missed tackles in their backfield had been converted, the outcome of last year’s CW would have been different.

        But poor tackling shone through, and the outcome was what it was. Four or five of our previous seasons’ defenses would not have had those lapses.

      • angry angry says:
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        The reason it’s not run in the NFL is because everyone is fast, which negates any speed advantage. Linebackers run a 4.6, so a guy like James (even with his head start from the ball fake) can easily be caught. Also, they pay QBs millions. It’s an investment that they don’t want broken in two. Since the read option is relatively simple (compared to a pro offense), the college QBs who run it are fairly interchangeable.

        • JackBeav says:
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          Yeah… personnel would just get killed. Don’t forget that defender who runs the 4.5-4.6 is also 6’3″ and 250#.

    • angry angry says:
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      Maybe we should point these rule violations out to the Pac-10?

      • Warren says:
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        Why not? What’s the worst that could happen? They continue to blow calls like they’re doing now?

        • angry angry says:
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          Warren, I delegate this task to you.

          Head of officals: dcutaia@pac-10.org

          His name is Dave. Let me know what he says.

          • Warren says:
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            Jack, can I use parts of what you wrote in my email?

          • Warren says:
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            Just watched the first few minutes of the USC/Oregon game on ESPN3, and on the Ducks first drive I see what Jack is talking about with the OL. I saw at least 2 OL moving around before the play and nothing was called.

          • ean says:
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            I would look up the actual official rules and quote them.

          • JackBeav says:
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            I keep trying to list them, but I wonder if the dashes constitute some strange formatting not accepted by forums. I’ll try again.

            For the snapper (center):
            7.1.3.a.1.a (p. FR-95), 7.1.3.a.4.b (p. FR-96), 7.1.4.b.2 (p. FR-98)

            For down linemen:
            7.1.3.a.4.c (p. FR-96)

            For participation between the numbers:
            7.1.3.a.2.a (p. FR-96)

            For substitutions:
            3.5.2.e (p. FR-77)

          • JackBeav says:
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            Go ahead.

    • ean says:
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      Interesting stuff on the rules. It would be nice if someone could research the specific clause so that an official looking letter could be put together in advance of the Civil War and sent out to the Pac-10, Oregon State, and possibly some media outlets.

      I felt bad for the kid that got injured and then booed. I am not big on calling out fan bases but that was completely classless, there were a ton of boo birds. I mean maybe some teams have faked some injuries but it is one of those areas will you give the injured party the benefit of the doubt.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    a video showing examples of each, preceeded by the rule itself, would be very illustrative….

    • Warren says:
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      If anyone could find some, I’ll attach them in my email. I just don’t know how to create clips from games.

  • Warren says:
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    Hmm…

    Rule 3-5, section e

    “While in the process of substitution or simulated substitution, Team A is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage with the obvious attempt of creating a defensive disadvantage. If the ball is ready for play, the game officials will not permit the ball to be snapped until Team B has placed substitutes in position and replaced players have left the field of play. Team B must react promptly with its substitutes.”

    I think that was one rule Jack was talking about?

    • JackBeav says:
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      That’s one. Look also at 7-1 sections 3a and 4b.

      Angry, look in your spam folder. I think all the numbers I’m typing into these comments are kicking them there.

      • Warren says:
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        Yep, those are the two. Can anyone find a clip of the Ducks breaking these infractions? I’ll attach them in the email.

      • angry angry says:
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        I didn’t see anything in the spam folder. The only posts that have problems is if there are two or more links. For some reason your browser has an issue with this site. Maybe register an account so your cookies are set. I might change the layout around at some point and make it more user friendly. The major problem is WordPress updated to 3.01 and a lot of the plugins haven’t.

    • OneEyedKing says:
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      Awesome work, dude.

  • ean says:
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    e. While in the process of substitution or simulated substitution, Team A is prohibited from rushing quickly to the line of scrimmage with the obvious attempt of creating a defensive disadvantage. If the ball is ready for play, the game officials will not permit the ball to be snapped until Team B has placed substitutes in position and replaced players have left the field of play. Team B must react promptly with its substitutes.
    PENALTY—Dead-ball foul. Delay of game on Team B for not completing its substitutions promptly, or delay of game on Team A for causing the play clock to expire. Five yards from the succeeding spot [S7 and S21]. The referee will then notify the
    head coach that any further use of this tactic will result in an unsportsmanlike conduct foul.
    PENALTY—Dead-ball foul. An official will sound his whistle immediately.
    15 yards from the succeeding spot [S7 and S27].

    Found this one in the official rule book. Article 2, point e. This is copied from the rule book if you want to include it in the letter. Also it might make sense to get a big letter together and have multiple people send it.

    • JackBeav says:
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      I only noticed that because I saw Tuinei (I think) go to the sideline after a big play. ABC actually showed him on the sideline because of the play (some love), then they hurried back to the game to catch the next play. It’s actually not a rule violation if the defense doesn’t try to sub… at least that’s my interpretation. I would send that one to the coaches.

      What bothered me more was the down linemen lifting their hands and the center moving all over the place.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      Does anyone remember when networks started using those overhead camera shots of home plate during MLB games and it showed pitchers like Greg Maddox where hitting the same spot pitch after pitch…only problem was that it was 4 inches outside yet umpire were habitually calling it a strike? Maybe video evidence will show the P-1o officials are missing this as well?

  • beavfan4 says:
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    “Beavers Think Struggling UCLA is Still a Potent Opponent”

    Thats the title of an article in the corvallis-gazette times today.

    http://www.gazettetimes.com/sports/beavers-sports/article_05547b3c-e5dc-11df-a9df-001cc4c03286.html

    Anyone still think this post was off-base?

    • angry angry says:
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      Thank you.
      Though, all a skeptic has to do is go back to the Oregonlive posts from the weeks of these games. It’s not like I enjoy making things up; I base posts off what I read.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      I think to some degree that type of headline is coach speak.

  • OneEyedKing says:
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    We take every opponent seriously. UO doesn’t. Again, it’s not a matter of skill, it’s a matter of mindset. Who cares how the fans view opponents? OSU fans see every opponent as worthy; UO’s (this year) don’t. So what? What effect does that have? Why is it important?

    It doesn’t, and it’s not.

    The worst thing you can possibly do as a top team is look down at opponents and just assume they can’t possibly beat you. Because then you’re under-preparing AND will look like a jackass when the upset happens (Stanford-USC, OSU-USC/Cal, etc).

    • beavfan4 says:
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      What effect does that have? Well the beavs are 4-3 and the ducks are undefeated…

      • OneEyedKing says:
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        Correlation is not causation.

        This is why most arguments are a waste of time; people don’t understand logic.

        Here’s another one for you: UO wears bright yellow shoes, and they’re undefeated. OSU wears black shoes, and we are not. Therefore, we need to wear bright yellow shoes, because black shoes don’t work.

        Say it with me; correlation is not causation.

  • OS_Beaver says:
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    BRING BACK THE PLATYPUS TROPHY!!! MAKE IT OFFICIAL BOBBY D!!! SIGN HERE..

    http://www.petitiononline.com/platypus/petition.html

    Or visit the official Facebook Site:

    http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19352193576

    The platypus is a half duck, half beaver mammal unsure of its preferred identity. Both Ducks and Beavers claim it as one of their own. Only on the field can it truly be settled. It is the ideal trophy for the Civil War and uniquely fitting for the two programs. It deserves some TV and national attention and that will only occur if it is reinstated as the official trophy as it was from 1959-1961. It would be great to start Pac-12 play with it returned to its former glory!

  • UofDuck says:
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    Be careful not to get too excited regarding Jack’s observations here. Oregon has two speeds between snaps. One is very very quick where they sprint back to the line and snap the ball right away. This is when subsitutions are not made by Oregon and it is pre determined that 2 or 3 plays will be ran in this fashion with no subs. Then it has a fast pace, but not frantic where subsitutions are made by Oregon where the defense is required to act promptly. That is when the defense becomes confused because they don’t know when they should counter with subs as Oregon only subs on certain plays and it is hard to know when they will and when they won’t. If Oregon moves quickly, the defense is afraid to sub and get caught with its pants down IF Oregon did not sub on that play. Go rewatch the SC game and you will see what I am referring too regarding the two speeds. On the slower of the two, the official will stand over the ball and not give the go ahead until he feels the defense has been given time. Problem is, they are afraid to make a subsitution because they are not sure if the offense has or not made subs – and again they are required to respond right away. Confusion sets in. Do the officials blow it sometimes? sure, but don’t think they are so bambuzzeld that they just let everthing go cuz Chip is so good at gimmicks. Step right up ladies and gentleman and referees and be prepared for magic….Sure Oregon pushes it, but Jack is grasping a bit here.

    His homerism shines thru when he says a clip is made and by some sort of slight of hand, the officials can’t see it. Do clips go un-noticed in games, sure. Is Oregon able to hide them by running a fancy roll-out? Of course because QB’s have been only rolling out for passes with blocking roll-outs for a hundred years now. Really Jack? We are that tricky that we can clip and not get caught? I promise you I could watch any OSU game and see illegal blocks get overlooked for whatever reason. We are no different.

    Futhermore, unless a lineman places his hand on the ground, he is fine to stand back up. Happens all over the country – watch any no huddle team and you will rarely see tackles ever touch the turf with their hand. Again, go and watch. Tackles put their elbows on their thighs, but keep their hand off the turf for this very reason. And as far as a center moving around, just watch any college or NFL game and see what centers are doing now days and you tell me if UofO is any different. Centers have become the QB’s of the O-line and all move, twist back and forth, point, tip the ball…etc a lot. Technically illegal, but everyone does it.

    What I find funny is that the longer the season goes on, and the better UofO does, Jack, whom I used to think was really on top of things seams to be so frustraited with UofO success that his reaches get further and further. This is priceless. I suggest you all re-watch the game with an open mind, and then watch Auburn with it’s not huddle and tell how different we really are. Do we move faster than Auburn, yes. Does it cause both pause and confusion for D’s? Yes.

    Do all of you actually think the Pac 10 coaches havent looked into speed of play of Oregon? The whole world is dissecting it. Do you not think the coaches havent spent time discussing these rules with Pac 10 officials? Too funny. There is no doubt that Kelly pushes the limit, but that is what he does. Good for him I say.

    • angry angry says:
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      I don’t think any of us were that excited. I mean, I delegated investigation to a 16 year old kid.

      It sounds a lot like a “balk” in baseball. Judgment call, guys like Andy Petitte push the limit on every pitch. With these things, the rule of thumb is that if you do it every time it becomes part of your style and tends not to get called.

      Kelly probably realized they can’t call a penalty on every play–again, this is his mad scientist/genius shining through.

    • JackBeav says:
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      I noted everything you said except:
      I watched intently with my DVR thingy to see if the linemen were dropping their hands, and they were. The snapper moving out of his stance was a rule I just happened to notice while looking up the hand-in-turf rule. So it sounds like you’re on the same page except for the clip.

      What I’m talking about is twofold. First, UO linemen have been playing dirty for the last couple years. I first noticed this when Carson York grabbed a handful of facemask and dragged a helpless Stanford DE out of the hole on LMJ’s 60 yard TD last year. It was obvious for the world to see, and I was so flabbergasted that I had to rewind my DVR thingy to see if I just imagined it. It couldn’t have been any more obvious the second time because the first time was REAAALLLY obvious.

      No call… 60 yd TD by LMJ. Oh well.

      So I started watching Carson york specifically. I mean, if he was that dirty, he would do it again. Right?

      He does. Watch what UO linemen do when they think the play is done. They’re not as bad this year as they were last year. But when the ball is passed downfield or the play is away from the block, the D-linemen turn to run downfield and let up when they see they’re 30, 40, 50 yards out of the play. That’s when the O-lineman who was engaged with the defender catches up with him and dives at the back of his legs.

      That’s what happened to Carter on that specific play, and that’s precisely what the replay showed. Again, we live in a world where morons like me have things that can record video. Do people think that they can just deny this crap happens because they didn’t see it… or didn’t want to see it?

      The crowd’s reaction and Kelly’s lack of sportsmanship were just bonuses.

      I never denied being a homer. Isn’t that what a fan is? I’m just looking to fight fire with fire. Since you agree that the gimmick is the speed of play, I don’t understand what you find confusing in my post. Rules is just rules, and mind games is just mind games.

      Kelly’s winning on all fronts right now, and I don’t know if I expect it to change. But as a fan I’ll do everything in my power to help my team gain any advantage.

      Sorry if that upsets you.

    • JackBeav says:
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      Just to be clear… there’s an old saying in hoops.

      No whistle… no foul.

      If the refs never call anything in a game, then there are technically no fouls in the game. More power to those who figure out where those non-calls are.

      But the poor sportsmanship with the opponents’ injuries has got to stop. you can’t claim to be in better condition than the opposition to the point that they’re cramping and puking… then get upset when they start cramping and puking. And when they have a legitimate injury, as was the case with Carter, then the coach, team and fans just look like turds.

      I would rather this team and fan base who represent the city and state in which I live conduct themselves with a hint of class.

      • UofDuck says:
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        I suspect you made some valid points Jack, and I DON’T condone dirty play. If York is as you say, dirty, then I want him benched. I will keep a closer eye on the lad to see.

        My real beef was that some of your comments were a bit misleading from my perspective. I get that Kelly pushes the envelope of subsitution exchanges and I suppose you could paint that as gimmicky. I look at it as using the rules to his advantage and building a team around that style of play.

        For instance, I played ball in the early 80’s. Back then an O-lineman could never grab with hands like they do now. Apparently, as long as you keep your hands in tight, it has become acceptable. I doubt the rules have changed as much as the game has changed because the interpretation of the rules changes over time and officals now see it as okay and the norm.

        Just as Angry pointed out in his balk example. Given time, more and more pitchers will follow Petitte’s lead if it becomes acceptable to boarderline balk.

        And yes I am a homer too, so I was a little put off by feeling that someone was trying to take innovation and turn it into something cheap. I am proud of the strides my team is trying to make and perhaps my attempts to defend them are silly, or even a bit blind. Some of things the Dux do are hard to swallow (ala Roboduck – my gosh that will haunt me forever), but I think the one thing I can say about this group of kids is that they work hard and are driven. I think it shows in their physicality late in games. Kelly demands it from them. He is a tough customer I’m sure.

        And you all know why some Duck fans boo when players are down. That is the other side of pushing the rules. We have had to deal with a lot of flopping to slow us down, which is unsportsmanlike according to the rules, but how do you call that? We saw kids roll around on the ground for 5 minutes only to pop up run to the sideline and get zero medical aid and come back in 20 seconds later. The problem is, it is like crying wolf. Nobody is able to really know when it is real after a while.

        Isn’t York an Idaho kid? If what you say is true about his play, than that would explain a lot. Wonder why BSU didn’t pick him up? He would do fine in their system – if you know what I am saying and I think you do.

        • JackBeav says:
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          I don’t think it’s York this year. I think his poor play was immaturity last year. The guilty party this year is Holmes. He chopped a Satnford LB, an ASU DT and a Wazzu DT also but was never called. If you’ve played the line, I’m sure you’re familiar with the pain, shock and fear involved when that kind of play happens to you. But when you get your head straight, you discover that you worried too much, and you can still play.

          The Beavs were dropping due to cramping in last year’s CW, but I didn’t hear anyone complaining about it then. Some returned immediately, and some couldn’t return. Cramping affects different body parts and bodies differently.

          What gets me is that Kelly touts his team as a better conditioned unit, but he doesn’t follow through with the reality that they are. If the opposition is cramping or puking, chalk it up to ‘they can’t handle it’. Don’t berate the refs, whine to the media and ridicule the injured.

          What he should say is, “Yeah, they just didn’t come ready to play a team of our caliber. They were dropping like flies like everyone does. It’s to be expected until we face a team who takes their conditioning seriously. I don’t know why you [the media] are making such a big deal out of it. It’s not like it had any real effect on the outcome. What worries me most is that my guys might break out milk cartons because they think it’s snack time.”

          THAT would be awesome!

          And don’t take a gimmick to be something cheap. I’ve met crazy mattress guy and car guy with animals on the hood of the car. Those guys had gimmicks, and they were highly successful precisely becuase they had gimmicks. They just knew how to properly implement them.

          • UofDuck says:
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            Hey Jack, sorry if I was a bit out of line my rebuttle. Sometimes I am a dork. Actually, most of the time.

          • JackBeav says:
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            Who isn’t sometimes? I’m actually surprised nobody has said anything yet about Glover being an absolute idiot. Someone should call him out.

  • OS_Beaver says:
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    He hasn’t always been perfect in coverage but I give Dockery A TON of credit for motivating his team and developing into a great leader. This is the kind of dedication and leadership you always need. He is a Beaver through and through and becoming a favorite of mine for his outstanding attitude. I love how he is helping to sell the program but also call out what needs improving. Great Job Dockery! GO BEAVER NATION!! BEAT UCLA!!

  • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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    Interesting article on the Beavs O-line being too nice… http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindbeaversbeat/2010/11/oregon_state_offensive_line_tr.html

    More support for the lack of recruiting and the lack of that killer instinct.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      Sounds like this Oregonian reporter has been reading Angry’s blog. He has been beating the recruiting drum for ages.

      • angry angry says:
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        I see a lot of elements from this blog. Even rivals has more cynical writing now. They call it “objective”. Hey, that’s what I call it, too. Guess we’re not that different after all.

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