13.Jan.2011 Basketball: UCLA @ Oregon State

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Hmm. Two wins, at home, versus the Arizona schools followed by two losses on the road against the Washington schools.

What to make of this? The short answer is: "who knows?"

The sample is way too small to form any conclusions, but it seems as if both Washington schools are better than the Arizona schools, so there's that; then factor in that both loses were away games. To me it's what one should expect from a young, talented team that is searching for their identity and confidence.

Now into town comes a vulnerable UCLA squad. While the Bruins are clearly down, it should be noted the Beavers have lost 11 straight to this program, dating back to 2005, and the Bruins hold an 86-34 historical advantage. However, the Bruins have issues. Lazeric Jones has a ruptured tendon in his finger, Josh Smith has attacked Pac-10 refs in the media (which will not win him any calls), and Ben Howland has moved to a zone defense in search of answers. Tyler Honeycutt is the best player for the Bruins. If OSU insists on the 1-3-1 expect him to make them pay.

That being said, I actually prefer the Beavs in this one. UCLA is the brand name and safe pick, but I can't shake the feeling that they're in the midst of an existential crisis that trumps Oregon State's sophomoric inconsistency. It won't be a blowout, but something along the lines of Beavs by 4 sounds about right to me. 

TV: FSN

Radio: KPAM

Stream: None, check justin.tv after tip off.

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  • ean says:
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    Definitely a winnable game. UCLA is only favored by 3.5. If we want any chance at the NIT I think you have to call this a must win. USC is going to be much tougher.

  • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    Beavers win this. It will be battle of Guards( OSU) vs Bigs(UCLA) each team’s strength.

  • Beavocalypse says:
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    Beavs lose by 15.

    That way I’m not disappointed either way.

    • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      Good to know you’re not pessimistic or anything.

      • Beavocalypse says:
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        Not a pessimist, just a realist. Glad I had other commitments that kept me from going to this stink fest. But who wants to bet the Beavs come out hot, only to fall flat again when they draw the game within 6 and then lose by 19?

  • beavers4life beavers4life says:
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    I may or may not watch the game. My uncle passed away last night and I am trying to come to terms with it and be there for my family. So I may be spending an evening with my cousin who is taking this loss pretty hard. A win by the Beavs tonight would help my spirits a bit, but in the long run, there is more to life than sports. Just keep my family in your thoughts and prayers if you feel so obliged. Thank you.

    Beavers4life

  • angry angry says:
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    Wow. Not what I expected to see…flat start.

  • angry angry says:
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    This is the worst effort I’ve seen all year…I don’t understand this.

    • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      Hard to watch. I don’t know why this team came out with such a awful effort. Roberto and Collier playing decently. Everybody else, have been terrible. Burton playing like he did a month ago.

  • OSU4Life says:
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    Beavs aren’t looking good right now. OSU is shooting 16% 3-20! UCLA is dominating inside. Hope the Beavs improve their shooting and defense!

  • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    In the first half Roberto Nelson and Devon Collier combined to shoot 4 for 9, the rest of the team shot 3 for 21. That is just unbelievably terrible.

  • angry angry says:
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    That was an amazing half. I’ve never seen such bad play. I feel as if my high school squad could easily take down the Beavs.

  • gotmilk says:
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    Burton’s post defense is a consistently awful, with his build he shold be able to establish and maintain defensive post position. Yet he turns away, for no reason time and again giving away easy baskets.

    This 8th grade fundamental stuff CR has shown no ability to teach. Everytime we face interior offensive threats we get killed.

    The only way to stop this is to not allow the entry pass, which we aren’t doing either.

  • angry angry says:
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    Looks like they got an earful as they’re now exerting effort.

    Robinson needs to start the 5am practices again.

  • angry angry says:
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    As bad as the effort was in the first half, it’s equally good now.

    The crowd is still to quiet for what has happened. They should be making this more of a nightmare for UCLA.

  • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    I wanna know what happened to them in the first half. The way they’re playing now is what we expected them to play like. 3 point game all of a sudden, didn’t expect that after halftime.

  • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    Lathen Wallace sucks!!! Why is he out there? I don’t get it. He hasn’t done much right, yet he keeps getting minutes.

  • angry angry says:
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    I don’t want to second guess, so I’m going on the record now: this is a bad lineup with Wallace, Haynes, and Burton down the stretch. They are all turnover machines.

    Robinson must be thinking “leadership”, but being a senior doesn’t equate to being a leader.

    edit: okay, he got Wallace out of there.

  • angry angry says:
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    “Turnover, Burton”

  • angry angry says:
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    Smart lineup: Collier, Cunningham, Nelson, Brandt, Starks or Johnson.

  • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    Wallace and Burton are holding this team back. In the last 5 minutes those 2 have been the ones making horrendous mistakes every time they get involved in a play. I can’t stand seeing them both in there.

  • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    Well the 3 players who continually kill the Beavers did it again and it cost them the game. Wallace, Haynes and Burton never fail to disappoint.

  • ean says:
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    Disappointing loss. Burton is not the greatest but who else is there really? This is Pac-10 basketball we can’t play small ball all the time. Plus quite a few of the TO’s that get credited to Joe are guys not ready for his passes. Plus he is the leader (or maybe 2nd now) on the team in assists. I mean ideally he would be a situational player but I don’t really see how Brandt is blowing Burton out of the water. We just lack a true post presence. I’d say this loss has more to do with the shooting than just a few guys.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      One of things with Burton is that his offensive game is very predictable. It looked like UCLA was well coached against his baseline moves. It looks to me like Burton consistently passes up open 12-15 footers, I am assuming he cannot make those shots otherwise they seem better then some of the crazy things he does with the ball.

      • angry angry says:
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        Seriously. He’d probably be better off pursuing break dancing.

      • ean says:
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        He made a 3 his freshman year… lol. It is odd too because he shot .631 for FT last year and now he is shooting a putrid .442 for FT. There are only 2 guys on the team shooting over 50% from the floor, Collier and Burton and if you lower to 45% you can throw in Omari. Cunningham, Haynes, Starks and Burton are the only guys on the team with a Ast/TO over 1. Yeah Burton could play in more control at times but he also is not a black hole, he keeps the ball moving on offense and creates opportunities. On a team that often gets stagnant on offense you can’t deny the helpfulness of a big that can keep the rock moving.

        • angry angry says:
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          Re: Burton

          He is what he is. The guy has a great personality, seems like a good guy and all, but he makes dumb decisions. For that reason, he should only be entrusted with the ball during meaningless junctures of the game. The coach should tell him this flat out since it would likely make him stop the flashy pass attempts that 90% of the time lead to turnovers.

          If he stopped turning the ball over, he’d be a good, serviceable player.

          • ean says:
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            I agree he could stop trying to do too much. But turnovers are part of making things happen. Steve Nash always has a ton of turnovers. Burton could definitely do a better job of handling the rock but if he had no turnovers that would mean he is no longer passing the ball. Burton is one of the few guys on the team that is passing the ball to the guy cutting back door. Perhaps he should work on his touch pass… he passes like Ryan Katz.

          • angry angry says:
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            “Perhaps he should work on his touch pass… he passes like Ryan Katz.”

            Exactly, that’s a better description of the problem. It’s not that he’s a terrible passer or decision maker, it’s just his execution/touch are not near where they need to be.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      Yeah, will OSU ever have a team again that can consistently shoot the basketball? With the turnovers they create, if they could even shoot 43-45% they would win their fair share of games.

  • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    When Haynes got hurt near the end and left the game, there was hope the Beavers might win. But then Coach Robinson reinserted Haynes for the final couple of minutes, despite Haynes being less than 100%. Sure enough, when it came down to the key possession of the game, Haynes tried (and missed) a playground drive to the hoop. Game over.

    When is Coach Robinson going to figure this out? Bench Haynes and Wallace. Play the young guards. C’mon, it’s not rocket science….

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      None of the seniors made a play in the last four minutes when they had chances to be heros and beat UCLA for once in their miserable careers, none! Johnson missed a layup and free throws, Haynes missed shots and turned the ball over, Wallace missed everything. I do not know what the future holds for the program, but I will be glad when these guys are gone for good.

      • angry angry says:
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        You got the sense they all wanted to be “the hero” rather than defer. They play with such high anxiety I pull at my hair watching them.

        • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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          You mean Wallace missed the free throws. Those guys drive me insane during games. Roberto played really well tonight and Jared down the stretch played well, just wish someone would have watched them and see how it’s done.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            Wallace missed the truly critical free throws, but I believe Johnson missed a couple a little earlier.

        • mckalk mckalk says:
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          I guess I need to believe Coach Rob when subtlely implies that these final Jay John guys are a bunch of basket cases. In the first half, I actually thought Johnson might be on some kind of sedative, his movements out there were weird. I just dont know why he does not bench them all at this point. I think the season is lost for any post season.

  • angry angry says:
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    Anyone watching the Ducks fiasco? What a botched grand opening.

    Even the Duck fans are silent…with a “what are we looking at” countenance.

  • Beavker Beavker says:
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    And this was the more ‘winable’ of the two LA schools. They’ll lose to them both in LA too.

  • sparkyd73 says:
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    I agree with much of these comments but I totally disagree on some. Burton was horrible, but I don’t think there was much of an option with the way the game was going. I’d love to see Brandt more, but he was not going to be effective last night. Brandt was getting thrown around like a rag doll by J. Smith. I think Coach Rob needs to play it game by game with some of those guys and give Burton a short leash. I know everyone on here hates on Wallace and for his body of work I don’t disagree. But in the last couple of games he has played well and brought intensity and a willingness to drive the ball. UCLA was not a good game for him and Coach Rob should have pulled him in the first half and sat him the rest of the way. But I don’t think that this team can afford to not use him at all. Where was Starks for that entire game? He must have really done something to make CR mad. We need him in the game, but only if he is making good decisions. This game was the UCLA football game replayed. Lack of focus kept us from winning a very winnable game. Shoot 33% in the first half and we win.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      The seniors are just a very, very frustrating group and all three of them had opportunities to do good things last night and once again none of them could not execute when the team needed them.

      Starks must have had some bad practices or he shot that long three after CR told him to go in and run some offense. He played what three minutes? That says something about what CR was feeling about his play.

      • ean says:
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        If I had to guess I would say it is shot selection. Starks has a tendency to shoot before the clock as in he will take a shot that would be an alright look with 5-10 seconds left on the clock but when you take it with 25 seconds on the clock it is not a good shot. I still think Starks is never going to be a PG. He reminds me way too much of Tujuan Porter. Porter was amazing next to Aaron Brooks because he could always be in attack mode playing off the ball but when it came time for Porter to lead the offense turned iso heavy. I think Nelson and Cunnignham will be better initiators of the offense in the future. Starks has a role I just think Coach Rob is trying to mold him into the system where as he should just not mess with the kids head, take him off the ball and let him do what he is good at.

        • angry angry says:
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          It seems inconsistent to take Starks out for shot selection when there are worse culprits who see minutes (e.g. Haynes).

          It also seems too early to form conclusions on him as a point guard. Right now Cunningham should be the point guard, but Starks has showed some good and bad. His minutes are so limited that it’s hard to judge what we’re seeing.

  • angry angry says:
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    Regarding Oregon:
    http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Distracting-glare-detracts-from-first-game-at-Or?urn=ncaab-307433

    Hilarious.
    I had to turn the game off after 1 minute. I wanted to “scout” USC, too, and tried like hell to watch. What a debacle. “Look at us..!!”….well, we tried, but you made it too difficult.

    Speaking of which, there were times I had to look away from the screen during the title game due to their socks. Oregon is going to start annoying people really soon. When I see people call them Whoregon because of Phil Knight I roll my eyes, but in terms of “attention whoring”…it’s spot on.

  • Beavker Beavker says:
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    Several Tweets replying to Buker are showing a consistent feel…sit the Sr’s and play the youngin’s.

    • ean says:
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      Well even if you are going on the assumption that the seniors are better which I am not so sure they are. But assume they are better for the sake of argument. I still think it makes sense to develop the young guys. This team isn’t really going anywhere, maybe the NIT if we come out of nowhere but that is looking like a long shot. So develop the young guys and develop some man defense skills.

      • Beavker Beavker says:
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        Agreed as well on the Man defense…it should be feasible if you have 5 quality athletes out there…you don’t have to cover for lacking athletes like they did before. You need to have that available for teams with shooters…

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    Why do we get these bizarre Beaver sports teams? Basketball team leads the nation in steals, but shoots the ball like a third grade YMCA team, so they are 7-9.

    • angry angry says:
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      Rebounding (defensive) has been the bigger problem. We need some bigs.

      • ean says:
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        Some of that is the zone too… tough to box out when you are not sure who to box out.

        • mckalk mckalk says:
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          With the turnovers these guys have been able to create, I think if they could just shoot 42-44% and make an average amount of foul shots, they would be 10-6. I mean, they are in ball games shooting under 40%.

  • JackBeav says:
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    This is all rumored–or heard through the grapevine–over this season, so take it with a grain of salt.

    There has been a schism on this team since Starks has taken the floor. He has by far the best handle on the team, and his decision-making is excellent in the face of pressure–something we’ve seen disappear when teams suddenly press us this year. His shot selection is questionable sometimes, but he looks comfortable most times he releases the ball, so I have a feeling he just needs to shoot it in rhythm. He’ll be fine once he gets over the speed and size of the game, but he has a bigger problem on his own team.

    Ahmad was taking time from the seniors, and they weren’t really liking it. Specifically, Haynes was pouting last month and being an ass about it. But Ahmad was a little warmer at the time, and his handle was needed for security if nothing else. So we got to see him start a game or two.

    But as we got to league play, time was taken from Ahmad, and he was sitting more than he was playing. He was still valuable for what he’s able to do, but the stigma of youth and inexperience sat him in favor of the seniors once again.

    This is the part I don’t like.

    Calvin took it upon himself at that point to be a leader. From what I’ve heard, he started giving Ahmad shit for sitting. He ragged on him to the point that Ahmad was sitting apart from the team during meals and just generally being alone in his own world.

    Remember that Ahmad is not a normal frosh. He was advanced academically before he reached high school, so he’s very young as even a frosh. So the nurturing and leadership required to bring him along isn’t any more than any frosh, but the limits of his maturity are more easily broken if they’re at all lacking.

    I haven’t heard about this week, but I would guess that Ahmad chose to lash out in some way, and that’s what put him on the pine earlier and longer than normal.

    • angry angry says:
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      If that’s true, where the hell is Robinson in all this? You don’t want these poisoned seniors infecting the young guys confidence. I’d bench Haynes for the rest of the season if that story is true.

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        Interesting information. Like you said, I just dont get CR if any of this is remotely accurate. I mean he has all but come out and said the Jay John guys are unathletic mental basket cases in the past, yet he continues to play them. Does he think they are going to win any games for him? At this point, I dont even care if they lose their next 13 games for the joy of seeing the trinity benched.

      • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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        There is bound to be a schism by now, especially after last night’s game. I don’t get FSN so only listened on the radio (and that only background listening) but it seemed like the underclassmen tied the game (briefly) and then it was lost when Haynes was in there. I haven’t looked at stats so that may be a gross generalization.

        • angry angry says:
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          No, that is accurate.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            Yup, Nelson drained what should have been a game changing three to give them a 2pt lead then Johnson, Wallace and Haynes decided to take zero opportunity to lead their team to a win.

          • angry angry says:
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            Speaking of Nelson, what was he doing walking the ball up the court with 16 seconds left and taking an off balance two pointer on some kind of awkward drive…?

            You have to shoot a quick 3 there.

            He’s is still in the “gets a pass” phase, though. Especially since he’s a SB native. 🙂

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            I wondered about that play also. It was not good basketball instincts by Nelson. You do not jog dribble up the court with 16 seconds left.

    • JackBeav says:
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      I heard last month over the span of the month (and from several different people) that Calvin was being a royal ass who was pouting for his lost time. So it was a slight surprise when I heard over the course of the Zonie series that he was flipping it back at Ahmad as league play started.

      Let me be clear, I don’t know if Ahmad started the shit-talking and Calvin responded with excessive force when the tide turned his way… or if it was simply unprovoked on Calvin’s part.

      That’s why this is rumor and should be taken as such for the time being.

      I don’t know if Coach Rob is aware of any of this because I know how team dynamics work, and I know how adolescent males act in these situations. They all seem to think that either they can (or should) handle it themselves, they think a stiff upper lip is the way to go, or they pout and hope that someone comes to their rescue.

      CR knows something is afoot I’m sure. But if neither the aggressor nor victim step forward to testify, the judge can’t make a ruling. Allhe can do is press one side or the other until they break.

      I think we’ve been at that stage for the last week. We’ll see where it goes from here.

      • JackBeav says:
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        I didn’t press the issue. I didn’t ask any questions. I just let some people talk, and I listened. I didn’t think that it might be relevant two weeks later, but let’s just say that I’m more than a little upset over the UCLA game.

        • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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          Interesting rumor indeed. In the UCLA game, I just found it really odd that Starks would play only 3 minutes and Calvin would play 27 when he goes and shoots 2 for 13. All he did was take wild shots that had no chance and Starks get yanked for 1 forced 3? Doesn’t make any sense.

          From how I see it is, Calvin outside of Cunningham, is Coach Rob’s favorite player and gives him so much time when he’s stinking up the place.

          How is Ahmad going to ever develop this season if he’s getting benched for no good reason and Calvin is playing almost 30 min/night.

          Ahmad, Roberto and Jared should be getting the majority of the minutes at point and the wings. No reason Calvin should be playing more than 16 or 17 minutes a night, he was given his chances and continually didn’t get it done.

  • JackBeav says:
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    Just picked this up on The-Mainboard (transcribed from Scout.com). Figured I’d put it here because it’s out of the way and I’m still not over this loss:

    Upon returning from his official visit to Oregon State last weekend, Todd Peat had four in-home visits in two days. Several major programs are in the running for the defensive tackle’s heart, but Peat tells Scout.com who’s in the lead…

    “Sunday night, Nebraska Coach Carl Pelini was at my house after I got off the plane from Oregon State,” said Peat. “He said he wants to bring in Coach Bo Pelini next week.”

    Three schools dropped by the Peat residence the following day, while Todd was off school for Martin Luther King Day:

    *New Colorado Head Coach Jon Embree was the first to knock.

    *Followed by two men who had just spent the entire weekend with the DT: Oregon State Head Coach Mike Riley and recruiting coach Mike Cavanaugh.

    *Arizona State Defensive Line Coach Grady Stretz then wrapped it up Monday night.

    Peat says Arizona will be visiting his home tonight. (Stay on Scout.com for details.)

    “I’m really down to three schools right now,” said the 6-3, 300 pound standout out of Tempe, Arizona. “Arizona State, Nebraska, and Oregon State.”

    What happened to Stanford, who sat in his top three earlier this month?

    Peat replied, “Stanford was the front-runner for a long time, but when Coach Harbaugh left, they fell out.”

    Breaking down current Top Three…

    Arizona State: “ASU was my very first offer. I was a sophomore. They’ve always been high on my list. I’ve known the coaching staff for years, built good relationships with them. Plus, I’m from Tempe, so I live ten minutes from campus.”

    Nebraska: “Nebraska was also one of my early offers. They’ve always been in the top-five range. It’s the program, the tradition. They’ve shown me a lot of love over the past two years. I really like the way they’re running the program right now.”

    As for the Huskers’ move to the Big Ten, Peat said, “It never really mattered to me. It’s a different style of football, but I feel like I can fit in almost any style.”

    Oregon State: “Really, Oregon State was never really high on my list, but they’ve always stayed around. So when schools started falling off, I brought them (the Beavers) back in the picture. I’ve built good relationships with the coaches, and I think I have a good opportunity to play early there. Plus, with what they do schematically, I’ll fit well in their system.”

    As Peat nears National Signing Day, narrowing his list to one, What are some things on his checklist? What does he want in a program/school?

    “The number one most important thing to me was playing as a freshman, starting as a freshman,” answered Peat. “But, after the Army All-American Bowl, I think I can do that anywhere.”

    Peat says he feels he has worked hard enough the last three years to come in and make an immediate impact at the next level.

    “Now, it’s all about the people there. What they do schematically. A program and a system that can make me the best I can possibly be.”

    So how exactly does he go about making his decision these next couple weeks?

    Said Peat: “I have film from all three schools (ASU, Nebraska, Oregon State). The next two days, I’m going to sit down and break down the film. Figure out what they do. Talk to the coaches as often as I can. Sit down with my family and figure out what’s best for me.”

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