04.Nov.2012 General Discussion
General discussion.
Have at it.
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ncaa_viOlation says:
Looking forward to the Beavs cutting down the Trees this weekend.
I’d also like to see Woods run through the Trees.
Maybe the Cardinal will be seeing red?
Hello? Is this thing on?
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Timber2002 says:
Sounds like Stanford is going to bench Nunes and play their new ‘freshman sensation’ Hogan. They say he doesn’t throw a beautiful ball, and he is hesitant in the pocket, but their offense exploded against Colorado when he went in. He is pretty big and is a threat to run.
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homefry says:
should be a forum topic, but I was thinking: Top 5 College FB programs you “hate”, with hate being the wrong word, but you get what I mean:
1) Oregon
2) Notre Dame
3) USC
4) Hawaii (thugs, and mob-inspired home officiating)
5) BYU (on general principle, and faith-based home officiating)-
CraigBeav says:
1) Oregon
2) Notre Dame – Get a conference, pussies.
3) BYU – Mormon pussies.
4) Stanford – Oooo, I went to Stanford so I’m all smart. Get a real mascot, pussies.
5) LSU – Huh huh, Tiger Baaait. I live amongst these mouth breathers, worst fans ever.-
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Maybe I’m just too young, but I don’t ever remember them being relevant. Who cares about UW?
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Beavker says:
That’s funny, so did I. I moved here and took right too them though. It’s fun being part of a such a hardcore fan base (but not Raider like, they actually cheer a good effort from the opposing team when they come off the field). I now realize how hard it really is for a school like Nebraska to recruit, since there are few in state choices, other than landing some walk ons that end up being good.
I always thought they were such Media Darlings, but now, I listen to a-holes like Matt Millen and Ed Cunningham cover their games and those guys hate the Huskers. Eddie almost cried one game when Eric Martin drilled an Okie State guy that was running down the filed on a kick off. It wasn’t after the play, it wasn’t 50 yards from the action…it was one of the lead headhunters and he clocked in at a 45 degree angle. Eddie thought it was too rough, and I though he would literally run down on the filed and kill Eric Martin himself. He talked about it for the rest of the game, all game long. The then B-12 Commission, Dan Beebe, who is a fucking tool and a half HATED Nebraska, so he suspended Martin for a game, which was unprecedented.
So I understand the dislike, but outside the Nebraska die hards (these fans TRAVEL) this program has to really work to get the funding to keep their facilities up. Suh gave a huge donation, and they have their rich alumns, but it’s nothing like Nike U, T Boone Pickens, or the Catholic Arch Diocese of Football.
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bendbeaver says:
Is it too early for hoops? Here’s the write up from last nights game:
http://www.osubeavers.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/110512aaa.html
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i checked in for a few minutes last night on the live stream and saw Olaf Schaftenaar during his stint. He instantly faded to the corner and drained a 3 point with ease. Shot was pretty and didn’t touch the rim. Then a couple minutes later he drained another 3 from out top. I didn’t see much else from him, but those shots looked pretty. Very nice to have big man that the defenses will have to respect from outside. Should open the floor nicely.
Other than that,
I noticed McShane was doing color commentary. I really hope that doesn’t continue. Time to move on I’m afraid son.
Collier looked active and shot a well, but he was also much taller than the defense, so that was to be expected.
Burton still plays that loose game I hate to see, except when it works well for him. I really don’t like how he leaves his feet before he passes.
Roberty Nelson seems like he should be a great player, but for some reason he just doesn’t have it going most of the time. He has a good offensive arsenal, but just can’t seem to hit his shots with any consistency.
Didn’t see any of the other new guys play in the limited action i caught.
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aicandme says:
I think the McShane appearance was a one time thing from what I heard at the beginning of the boradcast.
Collier looked great and hit a great fadeaway over his left shoulder. If he can hit that shot with any consistency, he will be tough to stop.
I thought Reid moved well without the basketball and played well for his first time out. Our freshmen will definitely see minutes.
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oneoldbeav says:
Vaz seemed to cut down on the number of passes batted down, can’t remember seeing any. The roll outs helped, but was a lot of the improvement due to ASU nailing him before he could get the ball away?
He seems mobile enough to make the roll out adjustment to avoid batted balls in the future. Of course mixing in running plays helps as well. -
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ObjCritic says:
Could have been one of six undefeated teams in the country, likely sitting at #5 in the polls if not for a loss to one of the worst teams in the Pac-12…..
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Do you think Vaz played well?
I don’t. In fact, if Riley decides to run the ball only 21 times, Vaz is way worse than Mannion was at UW. He overcame a 1/7 start with 50 yards and a TD to go 13-26 for two very easy TDs and an INT? I have my doubts that he was trying to hit Wheaton’s back shoulder on his second TD given that was where he was hitting every receiver on the night.
You guys want to pick on Hamlett, but he saved an INT by turning at the last second to get a hand on a really poorly thrown ball down the seam that was behind him and zoned by the safety. And the jump ball was a nice play by the safety to knock it away, but there was no reason for it to be a jump ball and giving the safety a chance to be there waiting for Hamlett to come down.
If it wasn’t for some Ward guy (who I have never heard of and would be surprised to find out he was an all-state RB on a championship team in California) I would have turned this game off in the middle of the second period. There was no way we were winning this game on Vaz’ arm with the mistakes he was making against a pretty bad group of DBs.
Some people here are mistaking running away from the pocket and not trusting your O-line as “mobility.” It’s not. In fact, running laterally into trouble while not keeping your eyes downfield or getting your feet set makes for some of those ugly passes we were seeing. And not making proper pre-snap reads AND DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT is all on Vaz. That was something he got better at in the first half. But what tape was he watching last week if he didn’t see those reads to start the game?
And the one thing Stanford has is a decent defense, something we haven’t seen in a while.
We don’t win at SU with Vaz… unless the D/ST scores twice or more.
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The TD to a wide open Cooks was a pretty good pre-snap read. I’m not really partial to either QB, and I think this D would win with a lot of QBs. But I like Cody’s TD to INT ratio of 7 to 1. I’ll take that all day.
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I could see that read. But then, I’ve seen ASU play a couple times this year. You can see their line stunts and DB tendencies. They’re not very good at disguising them.
And even with that read Vaz was behind on the toss. I guess that’s better than Katz doing the same play to perfection but throwing it 10 yards past the WR.
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Joe Avezzano says:
Joe agrees with this analysis and it informs the basis for the original question.
Vaz’s greatest successes were quick passes on out routes. No checking down there…throw to a spot and let your playmaker work his magic. Say what you will about Mannion’s last performance, at least he has demonstrated the ability to check down and find the open guy.
Joe is not saying Mannion should start, just that because Vaz has been good enough to win the casual fan might be unaware of what Joe believes are considerable shortcomings resulting in a terribly lopsided loss against a good team, that is to say, 2 of our last 3 games.
If we throw a starting qb under the bus for one bad half, then permanent benchings should have been enjoyed by Derek Anderson and Matt Moore who I believe became successful.
Joe hopes he is wrong, but wishes to keep Pollyanna sentiments at bay in the spirit of Angrybeavs.
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I’m in the camp that doesn’t think there’s much difference in the 2 QBs, but Vaz is on a roll so gotta go with the hot hand. Mannion had 2 TDs and 7 picks in his last two games so it’s time to take a seat.
When DA and Matt Moore played they didn’t have viable backups. Adam Rothenfluh probably wasn’t going to come in and throw 7 TDs to 1 pick.
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Looking at the run/pass call numbers in the last five games:
UWi – 26/49 (34.7% run calls)
UCLA – 36/40 (47.4%)
UA – 39/47 (45.3%)
WSU – 31/47 (39.7%)
BYU – 24/34 (41.4%)
Utah – 23/26 (46.9%)
UW – 21/47 (30.9%)
ASU – 32/39 (45.1%)UW has been by far the worst run defense we’ve faced this year. ASU comes in a distant second. Make the numbers the same on the high side for these two games, and the UW game is an OSU win in a blowout. On the flip side, make them the same on the low side, and we lose to ASU with Vaz getting benched before the half.
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Joe Avezzano does not know the definition of “clown question” but assumes you do not wish to discuss what Joe sees as a possibly significant factor in the Beavers continued success or lack thereof this season.
For discussion purposes: Vaz’s tendency to death grip the ball for that extra second comes to tears as he’s rag-dolled and the third time doesn’t get up. Mannion’s psyche not optimal coming off the bench combined with OL letdown cuz their qb writhed in pain results in, well, what we’ve seen earlier this season when the OL takes a fea plays off pass blocking-wise.
Is Mannion done as a starter? I like Vaz, but can’t shake the feeling he is just ok.
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OneEyedKing says:
No QB Controversy….the obvious starter is Vaz.
Mannion didn’t lose his spot due to injury, he lost it due to horrible play that cost us an undefeated season.
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Mannion decided to run the ball only 21 times against a team who couldn’t stop the run but didn’t have to because we weren’t running the ball?
You go out there and try some of those shitty play-action calls your coach calls when your coach doesn’t call a run game which forces the shitty defense you’re facing to even pretend to respect the play-action. Vaz got that courtesy, and he was just not good except for a couple plays. Take away a dozen runs like Riley did to Mannion then tell me how good Vaz is.
If I recall correctly, Mannion’s last two possessions against UW went like this:
1-10 – pass to Mullaney
2-short – run up the gut for a 1st
1-10 – pass inc… on another 1st down pass play
2-10 – Woods up the gut for major yards
3-short – PASS?… HELLO?… INT1-10 – Woods run up the gut for major yards
2-short – FLY SWEEP? THE GUT IS NO GOOD? loss of yards
3-four or five – another friggin’ pass… yes, poorly thrown but not necessary with Woods gaining seven and eight yards in his sleep.I liked that Vaz came in and tried to game it at UW. I even liked the decision to start him against ASU. I do not see him as viable going forward. The mixture of play calls and his abilities is starting to bleed from one game to the next. There is now enough tape on him for defenses to know what to expect, and his production will drop.
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I agree the more Vaz plays, the more ordinary he will look. It’s not that I don’t like him, but I expect that his completion percentage will suffer, which was one of Mannion’s strong points.
Obviously Mannion’s two-game TD:INT ratio isn’t acceptable, but I still think everything else being equal – pass protection, play calling and balance thereof – Mannion’s top end is better than Vaz’s. I think Mannion completes a higher percentage of passes for more yards. That was the trend early in the season.
I like them both, but I really hope Mannion’s getting a least a third of the reps with the 1′s in practice. I think one good half of football would get him back into his early season groove.
And just to look TOO far ahead, this certainly makes next year’s fall camp outcomes interesting, as does, I hope, the addition of Chris Brown and his speed to the RB stable.
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MonkeyLuven says:
Not sure who gets us there (and I don’t really care), but Vaz wont win us the CW. Mannion will be back by then and give us the best chance possible at putting together a complete game.
I like Vaz and am happy with everything he’s done so far. Regardless, UW wasn’t Mannion’s fault (entirely). Blame Butterfinger receivers, lack of a running game, and maybe a little hesitancy on a QB just coming back off surgery. All at the Clink.
My guess is that Mannion appears again at SU if Vaz struggles. Or he returns during the Cal game when the Bears start headhunting after realizing that their season (and coach) are long gone. Either way, Mannion leads us to a CW win and Rosebowl berth.
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The only way Vaz is benched is if he throws two ints in two quarters or less. He does seem to underthrow and throw behind receivers often, but they’re skilled enough to make the catch in a lot of instances.
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Ackrite says:
I like to see how Vaz completed during the game. Vaz was getting the shit beat out of him all day but continued to complete. With Mannion things seem to go from bad to worse, limited sample size but the first quarter was a train wreck but things got better which is something new as a beaver fan. I can’t recall a time where the wheels were falling off and the team was able to correct it mid game. Was it Vaz or Mannion? Coaching? but with Az St and Wash as a sample I’d rather go with Vaz vs Stanford.
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Again… it was the run game. Vaz did start to finally read hot. But that’s about all he did for the whole game. I would wager only four, maybe five completions weren’t hot reads. And I’m not including the Cooks TD on that list. When you have seven in the box, bring the strong side S on a blitz and the CB on that side staring (hard) into the backfield during the snap… and your TE is released to the second level in the middle… you’re going to single cover Wheaton?
If it wasn’t for the skill of our WR’s playing defense on some really late floaters, Vaz has several picks in this game.
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WFO says:
Agree on the run game,inexcusable game plan by the coaching staff. The difference between Vaz and Mannion’s questionable passes is that Vaz put them where the receiver could adjust and catch or play defense. Mannion put them right in the defense’s hands. Big difference.
Don’t get me wrong, I want Mannion back because I think he’s the better QB. But he needs to be 100% mentally and physically. Until that point Vaz is the better choice.
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hellobeavers says:
You may be right about how the choice to run the ball affected the outcome, but Vaz and Mannion are throwing to the same receivers. I agree with WFO here. The receivers should be able to prevent Mannion INTs just as much as they prevent Vaz INTs.
I like Vaz better at the moment. Mannion has more potential, but I like that Vaz drops back quicker, can throw a better ball and seems to connect more for deeper passes that lead to bigger plays. And what is with the full windup that Mannion does on every play? Vaz has a way quicker release.
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Mannion with Wheaton was almost perfect. And that was with him looking a little shaky at the time.
Was Vaz throwing anything at Gwachum… or even Mullaney? You’re telling me Vaz would have flourished without Wheaton?
Mannion without Wheaton (and without a week to prepare for a game without him) means he’s benched?
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And not only did Mannion have to overcome a poor scheme. He also had to overcome what I thought were very poor coaching decisions in leaving potential points on the field by not kicking FGs.
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And I saw the exact same thing overcome Vaz when we got to the UW 38 with about a minute left. We didn’t run the ball. If we would have run the ball, we would have made it FG range at the very least. We likely would have seen UW relax their pass D to mark the run, and Vaz could have potentially gone on to win the game. Barring that, how does Romaine feel as he trots out for a game-tying FG in that situation after getting the cold shoulder twice previously.
Instead it was bad pass, bad pass, delay penalty after a TO, sack, bad pass. And everyone involved in that sequence gets a (bad) pass too.
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rsteve503 says:
Well, I can see that there does seem to be a controversy…..Jack vs the rest.
I suggest that Mannion had all of last year to get his game polished, and still stunk it up against UW. Vaz had stepped in for the injured Mannion for two games and won them both. Then he steps in against UW when a comeback is needed, pressure on, and performs well. Ties the game.
Not going to argue technicals, Vaz looks to be a winner. Cant win the CW? Sure cant win it if Mannion is tossing INTS.
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I wish to be completely wrong here. But I think Mannion performs against ASU better than Vaz did given the same chance. Coming in late against UW was nice and provided a spark. But that spark fizzled in a big way to end the game. And Mannion did not have two of the same luxuries Vaz had against ASU, namely Marcus Wheaton and a dedication to the run. Vaz also did not have those luxuries on the final drive against UW, and I think I would rather have an INT than the final four plays we did see.
I hear what everyone says. I have to laugh heartily at anyone who thinks Vaz is more accurate than Mannion on even his best day though, let alone against ASU. The stats bear out accuracy numbers better than any of us can project in these comments with our emotional rants. If you think 42% is going to cut it against a good defense (I do not think ASU is a good defense), then more power to you. At least get into the 50%+ range like a Jonathan Smith in order to make the “moxy/winner/accuracy” argument. If Mannion had played like this, you all would be ranting and raving about these numbers.
And so would I.
I’m a numbers kind of dude, and the numbers are horrible.
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Superficial analysis.
Go watch Mannion’s throws again; they were terrible, technically. They wabbled, they were short, they were very off-target, they were late. Then watch Vaz’s; on-time, on-target, tight spirals.
It’s nice when the coach calls a balanced game, and yes, if you’re calling play-action without establishing the run it’s going to be hard to find an open receiver. But where Vaz “Throws his receiver open” Mannion threw interceptions, or wabbly, short throws.
And where Mannion would stand in the pocket like a stone statue, eat a sack, and then get anxious next time the pocket collapsed, Vaz made plays, or got hit and then just got pissed and played even better.
I like Mannion in a long-term sense; there’s a reason he won the starting job (or stole it from Katz) but right now he is not better than Vaz.
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You obviously didn’t watch the ASU game if that’s your analysis. Vaz threw some ducks, and most of his tosses were behind every receiver… even the many late throws.
That wheel route to Ward when we had 1st and goal? It was a wobbly throw behind Ward when a decent lead to the back of the endzone would have likely scored a nice TD to a Ward who had the LB beat. The play that got them to 1st and goal was a nice hot read to Cummings on the slant. But that and the TD throw to Wheaton in the first quarter were really the only nice tosses he had all game. There were bubbles to Cooks that were low (and complete). There were the normal quick outs to both Wheaton and Cooks that you and I could make. There was one out on a hot read to Cooks that could have gone deep instead of the out because the S was late, but he lobbed it behind and Cooks adjusted to sit on the out. And the long pass to Wheaton that set up the bogus holding call and eventual FG was late and to the outside. He had an easy TD if he throws late and inside, let alone on time.
Besides the throw to Cummings, can anyone remember a nice toss over the middle?
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angry says:
Why do you dislike Vaz so much? He’s a good player.
Mannion has had many horrible throws. Early in the season he was missing opportunities in the red zone.Haven’t looked at the stats, but it seems like the Beavs are scoring more TDs down there with Vaz in the game. He has 7TDs in three games, Mannion had 8 (and 8Ints) in 5 games. What’s the argument? Just play the guy who is more productive. His intangibles are what I like best.
The sample is so small that Mannion should be ready to go in case Vaz implodes. I think that’s the smart way to play this.
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wannabeav says:
I’m with you on this one, Angry. Jack must be trying to burnish his contrarian credentials. Maybe he’s right in that Cody’s passes aren’t as technically proficient as they could be but it’s getting harder and harder to argue against the results on the field
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I’m not the one being contrary. I’m the one bringing stats and inviting people to actually look at the game since it’s free for viewing on the net. The Utah game is as well.
I don’t have access to PTN archives, but I think Mannion’s game was nails until Wheaton went out and the play calling got hinky. He was still decent until the two consecutive picks. But I was screaming for some runs at that point anyway (as well as some FG attempts when in range), so I didn’t like that we were even pretending to pass.
And I don’t think either of UW’s first two INTs were legit, but that’s another story.
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Beavergopher says:
Agree Angry. Both QB’s have faults, but Vaz’s are less damaging to us at this point.
Vaz positives = compact, quick release
tight spirals
can make some plays with his feet on rolloutsnegatives = short——–passes batted down
not hitting guys in stride, which cuts down on YACMannion Negatives= long,slow delivery
flutterball passes——can’t figure these out. Dad is a coach. I can throw a
tighter spiral.
Statue…….no chance to run. Should have been able to pick up a couple of
third downs by running on roll outs against the dogs.Positives = can slide well in the pocket. Not doing it as well as last year.
sets up YAC by leading receivers well. -
I’m not disliking him. Have I said that I do? I’m just not seeing what everyone else thinks they see. The game is available for replay on ESPN if any of you guys don’t have it recorded. Go look at it. Vaz started the game missing pre-snap reads and it spotted ASU seven points (and not really the safety, but a short field for that punt didn’t help).
Against a good defense (or at least talented players) like Stanford has, that performance is going to end up with a broken Vaz and four or so picks. Our receivers can’t play defense all day. And the run likely won’t be as effective. We have to get the ball in the middle of the field against that team, or we are going to lose big.
Well, as well as our D is playing it might turn into something like the Notre Dame/Michigan game.
Three of Vaz’ seven TD’s are red zone TD’s, and one of those was Prince’s deflection/box out. I loved the BYU performance and sort of expected it, though not quite as much as the reality turned out to be.
He had one good drive against Utah in which he completed four of his 16 passes. That’s the only drive that started outside Utah’s red zone and ended in a score. But again, the run/pass balance was nice for that game.
Against ASU, he had a nice drive to end the first half (which his reads killed and turned into a FG) and some inconsistent play in the second half. Three drives went to the red zone in the second half. Two went backward and ended in FGs. One was set up by a broken play to Cooks to the 20 followed by a short Ward run and the back shoulder fade to Wheaton. That was a nice two for two and a TD. The Cooks TD later was also set up by a punishing Ward run for some 30 yards. That was a nice one for one for a TD.
But if you add those two quick drives to everything else from the time we had 1st and goal on that final drive of the first half, then Vaz was 5 for 14 with two TDs, one INT and three sacks for the remainder of the game.
On that drive to end the first half (and to get to 1st and goal) he was 6 for 8. Before that he was 3 for 11 for one TD, three sacks and two fumbles (one lost for points against).
Are you starting to see the story the numbers are telling me? Those numbers don’t tell me that both Wheaton and Cooks had to wait on and eventually defend passes during the game. They don’t tell me that everything Vaz threw was behind his receivers or late. Just watching the game tells me that.
And this is coming from someone who thinks starting Vaz in this game was the right call. I don’t think it’s correct from here on out.
Here’s a neat stat:
We had four TD “drives” against ASU. In those drives, we had seven 1st downs. On each of those 1st downs, we ran the ball.-
For anyone counting, those four TD drives had Vaz going 5 for 5 for 152 yards, three TDs and no sacks.
It seems like he’s feast or famine, and that’s what I don’t really like.
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Oh… and that drive at the end of the first half would have ended in a punt with him going five for seven for 45 yards if not for that dumb penalty by Onyeali.
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No. The argument relies on Vaz only succeeding against a team who is known for giving up big plays too often. The next game will not be against such a team, and those intermediate throws are going to be necessary in order to do anything.
The sample says that we are relying on just big plays against a team who gives up big plays. The key word there is “just.” There were the big plays, and there were a large majority of poor plays. Take away even a couple of those big plays, and it’s a very different game. Nobody can take them away from Vaz after the fact. But when evaluating his efficiency going forward, it doesn’t look good.
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For the record, I would feel the same way if Mannion had not been replaced at UW and still did precisely the same as Vaz has done since. And I think everyone here would be screaming for Mannion’s head if that were the case. I would be showing the exact same stats, and you all would be saying he deserves to sit because of it.
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GreatWhiteHunter says:
Angry – have you reconsidered putting the ad banner back up? I frequent several sites that have them, and once you get over the shock of seeing it, it kind of just fades into the background. The ad $$ may help alleviate some of the angst with keeping up the site. Merely a suggestion.
Thanks again for the sounding board!
~gwh
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Preseason all Pac 12 receiver Marquess Wilson from WSU walked out of practice last night and either quit the team or was suspended.
http://www.cougcenter.com/2012/11/5/3603256/marquess-wilson-quits-workout-wsu-football
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check this article out–sounds like a cluster…
http://seattletimes.com/html/cougarfootball/2019600147_withers04.html
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I have to admit, I was interested in the idea of Leach coming in and taking over for Riley the last couple years, but after seeing larger sample of his body of work, I’m glad that never happened. Reminds me of when Glanville came to Portland State. His first year, the team sucked. He got on the kids, got a bunch of them to quit, pulled scholarships on a bunch of other kids. Then he brought in his own players and still sucked for the next 3 years.
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Looks like the famous Mike Leach finesse, is starting to occur at WSU. Maybe he was going to lock Wilson in a closet like the James kid. The guy (Leach) is an ego maniac that can’t handle frustration. JB
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The whole “I blame the coaching staff and that starts with me” shtick doesn’t work so well when in the next sentence he states all the linemen collectively are a bunch of pussies.
Coach, yer doin’ it wrong.
What would compel a skilled recruit with any other half-decent offer to think being F-bombed all practice in the freezing cold and losing a million games would be a quality college experience?
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For the stat-minded, these pages are pretty comprehensive and fairly well presented:
Oregon State:
http://web1.ncaa.org/football/exec/rankingSummary?year=2012&org=528
Stanford:
http://web1.ncaa.org/football/exec/rankingSummary?year=2012&org=674
Stanford’s rush defense is impressive. I’m sure it’s helped by Colorado’s ineptitude and likely sacks that counted against the rush, but OSU will have to work hard for decent run gains on second down and perhaps get 2-3 longer runs during the game when somebody (Ward? Woods?) breaks through to the second level. Would like to see some quick hits up the middle with Anderson.
I expect Riley is going to be taking down field shots to “open up the run” again and I think most first downs to be passing plays for OSU.
Taylor is a good RB, but if OSU can play like it did against Wisconsin and Montee Ball, I think they could limit his impact on the game. The new QB is mobile, but getting it done against the Beavers will be much harder than against CU, and I think OSU gets at least one or two picks.
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beaverkman says:
I am worried that Riley will just abandon the run, as he figures they are too good to run on. So, I think they will pass alot early, if we can get a lead then he will try to pound in the second half, much like BYU.
I think he should try a different approach and try to run the ball more, use the fly sweep and then open it up in the second half.
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For all those Believers as well, this magical season isn’t over yet. Sure, our expectations have changed and that’s great, but a NC title were never realistic for this supposed 7-5 team. It’s hard to beat every team in the PAC.
I hate the quacks. They’re damn good cheaters. But in order to feel truly accomplished, we have to succeed and do better than them. I want to go to the Rosebowl. I don’t want and will never cheer for the ducks to help get us there (given they go to the NC game).
This magical season still gives us the chance to make it to the Rosebowl AND knock the quacks from their pedestal. Easily? Hell no. But to me, the opportunity of such things in week 11 of the season means that this team has and still is still creating something magical for Beaver Believers everywhere.
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We will all be in nursing homes dribbling soup down our chins and crapping our Depends before the NCAA makes a determination about Cheatin’ Chip. Evidently.
For the record, Joe did not make it to the shitting-himself stage.
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No kidding, I was just talking about that with my buddy the other day. If and when they finally come to a ruling, Chip will be in the NFL and all of the players from those teams will have graduated or left the program. The future recruiting classes will be the ones that get dinged and none of them will have had anything to do with the violations. On top of that, if it’s a scholarship reduction, most likely it’s going to be the few kids who barely got a scholarship in the first place who get punished. So they’ll lose the opportunity to go to school and play the game they love.
The lesson learned by coaches and player is that it pays to cheat.-
I think a lot of their fans have forgotten about it. Up here, if my friend and I go out to the bar to watch the game, there always ends up being Ducks in the room. He likes to get them riled by calling the Ducks cheaters, and they get sincerely wound up while we’re just being smart asses. The last time, this guy is saying ‘what are talking about, dirty program?’ I said something about Willie Lyles and he looks at me like he’s never heard the name.
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Dave Kragthrope says:
NCAA, you make it sound like you would feel bad for the recruits coming in that were not responsible for the violations after Chip takes a hike.
Those kids did choose to become ducks which automatically makes them turds. Besides how can you really feel bad for someone that willingly dresses up in a clown costume every Saturday?
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I can’t fault a kid for accepting a full ride to a University. If a kid loses out on that opportunity because the people who came before him didn’t play by the rules, I don’t think the kids who weren’t involved should get punished, turds and all.
Speaking of kids going to Universities on a full ride, my nephew just verbally accepted an offer to play baseball at WSU yesterday. He’s only a junior in highschool right now. Apparently he’s hot shit in the state of Washington. Hoping he backs out at some point if OSU comes looking his way.
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While I cannot see OSU defeating Oregon, it would certainly be an extra-sweet victory if they were knocked out of the NC game and OSU went to the Rose Bowl or other BCS bowl game.
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Jack is looking at form over function, pedigree over performance. It is one thing to disguise intentions or not. It is another thing altogether to pick up the stunts. The Beavers improved when blocking was executed on a regular basis. Stanford will come from many different angles. The qb (whomever they Beavers use) will have to be able to move around some. Accuracy and execution will be as important as reading. The qb will also have to project confidence and cool under pressure. If one were to grade on upside, Smith and Moeavo would never have seen the field. Upside is why the Beavers took a pass on Kellen Moore and Aaron Rodgers. Vaz has earned the right to start. But no one is saying that this is blind love.
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Joe Avezzano is in agreement that with no other factors it’s Cody’s job to lose and the coaches don’t have much choice. I suppose Joe is simply mesmerized by the poise, confidence, and playmaking ability by a certain frosh qb in the league. Holy shit is that guy a football player.
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What if, say Mannion looks great in practice this week, throwing a great ball, on time, making the right reads and check downs…does he see the field Saturday?
I ask because I think the players should make the case for themselves. What if he does? I suppose he’d just be viewed as ready and as a 1A QB just as Riley said Vaz was.
This is not a bad situation for OSU to be in, but it is interesting to understand what the criteria or tipping point is – a poor performance in a loss? We saw a ton of patience with and for Moore – didn’t he throw something like 5 – 7 picks agains UA? But as pointed out, there wasn’t any experienced depth behind him either.
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Erickson never looked at Rodgers.
And what accuracy? Vaz was behind or way late on just about every throw.
It was showing in the Utah game as well. So I don’t know exactly what moxy is going to get you if you can’t make an intermediate read and pass out of the pocket in our system. He can run for his life and throw off balance to WRs who have the ability to come open late all day I guess. But he is going to have to start hitting some actual spots if he wants to win going forward.
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No argument about Vaz accuracy. But Mannion has his own issues, primarily mobility and ability to get the pass off. Notre Dame showed that you do not have to be accurate against Stanford. You just have to get the pass off, send it to a general area and let the receiver go run it. So, open question, why would Mannion be the better choice?
As for Aaron, I believe that he still has the letter from OSU (and others) telling him to buzz off.
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We all know Riley is painfully slow to adapt and that, after at least two weeks of admitting he should have called more run plays, he finally upped the run game against ASU.
Has he actually turned the corner on balancing the attack? Was he uncharacteristically adjusting to Ward’s success? Dare we feel positive about the likelyhood of a more potent O due to more balance?
Oh yeah, is lettuce on the edge of some decent performances?
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helmsley says:
I liked what Riley said in a postgame interview – he put Romaine (I don’t see the point in continuing to call him lettuce – it’s lost its edge) in a pressure situation which – especially with the fg that barely made it – gave him (Romaine) some confidence. OTOH – if he’d missed . . .
Riley actually said something somewhat funny (funny funny, not weird) – something to the effect that, with OSU, you don’t want to leave early because you never know what’s going to happen. That was certainly true against ASU. I suspect the casual channel-changers checked out first quarter.
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You’re right, I said “lettuce” cause I didn’t want to misspell Romaine. Got it now, learn something new each day!
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He surely did in high school – I take it you prefer him to Romaine? Ideally you would never miss a PAT attempt or a FG – I quoted Riley – I didn’t put forth a personal opinion and doubt it would matter if I did.
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BeaverinTX says:
I don’t know enough about him to prefer him to Romaine. I do know that we should expect our kickers to hit PAT’s. He’s currently 8th out of 9 eligible kickers in the conference in PAT %.
I will say this: his FG’s have improved dramatically. Have to give him credit for that.
On a side note: Owens played all three sides of the ball in HS. You have to like having a kicker than can tackle.
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Here’s a cool stat: Romaine leads the PAC-12 in FG% by a wide margin. He’s at 83%, the next closest is Furney from WSU at 73%.
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Bill says:
A couple observations from the game,
Vaz missed a WIDE open Caleb Smith on the second drive of the game for a TD. Settled for a FG.
Teams still pick on Reynolds when Poyer is out.
ASU seems to just play really badly at times and it results in the big play. On Cook’s TD, who knows what the S was thinking. He sees the CB blitz and does nothing to help.
As for Stanford, after giving up less than 100yds on defense, hopefully will be a little soft coming into this weekends game. The game plan should be the same as Wisconsin, UCLA and Utah. Stuff the run, force the pass. Make their QB win the game.
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Suburban_Cog says:
I watched the replay of the game this morning. On that Cooks TD it looked like ASU dialed up a safety blitz. The CB thought he had safety help over the top and bit hard on the run fake. I guess that is what happens whend you effectively run the ball.
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Watch that CB again. He was staring into the backfield for a good five seconds before the snap and all the way through it. It was like Cooks was never there.
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Yeah, You’re right! It looks like the CB was playing run all the way. I still contest that was mostly setup because of the quality run production.
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I was at the game, and I remember before that play I was talking to my buddy about what is Riley going to do here? They had a pretty decent lead and it was the 4th quarter. The perfect recipe for Riley to go conservative and just run the ball and eat some clock. I remember saying I really hope they stay aggressive here, but it seemed like the entire stadium had been lulled to sleep and were expecting a bunch of running plays too (including ASU). That pass to Cooks was a complete surprise to everybody in the stadium and nobody could believe how wide open it was.
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The S was supposed to cover Cooks originally, but he had to cover Hamlett instead. ASU wasn’t going to drop a LB fast enough to cover him in the seam while they were showing a press inside the box, so all Hamlett had to do was run straight for the S. All Cody had to do was look at the S and see if he was going to step up or move over Cooks. He stepped up, and Vaz could have closed his eyes and tossed a TD.
And if the S covers over Cooks and Hamlett somehow is covered in the seam by a dropping LB, then we’re left with Wheaton in single coverage on the other side.
That was just a poorly designed defensive play.
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They must have thought a normal team would have audibled to a run when they saw an obvious 7+1 in the box.
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GOBeavers says:
In the first quarter, Vaz never saw a wide-open Caleb Smith on a play that could have been an easy touchdown, instead throwing an incompletion to Connor Hamlett.
“We used Caleb as a decoy on that play to draw the coverage,” Riley said. “We sent Connor on a delay up the seam behind him. He was the intended receiver, and Cody was anticipating reading (the cornerback) and finding Connor. Even so, if you see a guy open (like Smith), you have to throw to him. Cody just never saw him.”
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beavers4life says:
So, I have insight information on the new logo Oregon State is going with that the university has already approved. I have a very legit source who works in the design process and I don’t want to get them into trouble, so I won’t mention how I know them.
Here’s the description I got for the logo….
It’s going to be an O that’s in the shape of a 4 iron head. Here’s an example of what a 4 iron head looks like:
http://tinyurl.com/aluo7xhSo with that picture, imagine the beaver head, smaller and more in “motion” on the top right corner. Not sure what color the “O” will be, but it could be black or orange is my guess. they didn’t say what color they plan to use. So ALL current logo’s will be done away with as well.
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I’m confused, so the “O” will be elongated and not symmetrical? and it will still have the angrybeaver head included but that will just be pasted in the upper corner? like a logo within a logo?
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Great!
A four iron/wood and an angry brown beaver for our logo.
It sounds more like a Tiger Woods summer weekend than an OSU logo.
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I’m more curious what they’re going to do with the athletic uniforms more than the logo. Because the logo is what the public perceives us like the Uck “O”. My personal take is, I’m glad it’s more “Okley” like than toilet seat like.
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HopefulBeav says:
Any insight as to how many uniform combos they’re planning on making for us? Is it just a home and an away uniform or multiple combinations of each?
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That sounds fucking stupid.
How bout a big blocky orange O? Just like it used to be. Keep it simple.
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Ohio State has a big, blocky red O. I had my old Beavs O hat on in Montana about two months ago and 5 or 6 knuckleheads are like “hey, go Buckeyes!”. No one said “go Beavs!”
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Well they’re morons. Bucks have leaves and those stinky pods on one block O and OhioState on the other.
https://www.google.com/search?q=ohio+state+logo&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=UMOYUJmMAeveigKrkoDgDA&sqi=2&ved=0CDAQsAQ&biw=1348&bih=583Sure, their official lettermen block O is the same as ours. But they don’t use it.
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Of course they do. So do we. But that’s kinda the point. Neither of us use it in the media anymore. It’s that damned image projection shit that them away from their roots as much as it takes us away.
Everyone screams about “tradition,” but everyone also gives it up for supposed “individual and modern identity.”
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ddd says:
Who cares about people in Montana? Are they our market? OSU is never going to be a national team unless we win big and if we win big – well people will know who we are. Worry about your fan base!!!
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Joe Avezzano is shocked to discover there are few individuals in Montana that aren’t worldly.
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I still prefer the single block O.
The ironic thing about the single Duck “O and the inter-locking “OS” is the two schools have merely used each other previous approach. Ducks used to have an interlocking “UO” and OSU used to have a single block “O,” correct? I mean, before the cursive (wtf?) “Beavers” was on the side of the helmet.
I suspect there will be elements of the new look that are well accepted – color, old school approach, but something like the logo itself or some other detail will leave people disappointed.
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I guess I don’t know how to feel about this “Nike makeover” because I’m not sure what their goal for Oregon State is. Are they just simply redoing a couple of uniform designs for us like they seem to do for us every few years as well as many other schools? Or are they trying to make us their “new Oregon” as Tinker implied in a couple of his interviews? If they are going to roll out new uniforms for us every 2-3 weeks then I would expect an Oregonesque reaction where some people are going to love them and some people are going to hate them. In that scenario I don’t really care how they look as long as recruits like them and they keep people talking about the Beavs nationally on a weekly basis. But if they are just going to make us a home, away, and alternate uniform then I would prefer they don’t do anything too controversial or flamboyant (sports bra uniforms?) because that could just get annoying to look at each week.
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beavers4life says:
I don’t think they’ll go with a new uniform every 2-3 weeks because they want us to get a firm brand going and the only way to do that is to distinguish ourselves FROM other schools and what they do. I say we’ll have 2 maybe 3 home uniforms and 2-3 away ones that contrast each. not sure what color schemes or orange they’re going to implement.
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I think a Chicago Bears-type approach would work well for OSU – see uni in this photo:
I particularly like the orange-on-dark numerals with no white outline or drop shadow, which actually makes the numbers harder to read.
I also like the Bear’s orange jersey.
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Bob says:
You all might be interested to know that Ward ran with the first string today in practice, granted, he alternated with Storm who was back in pads, but he runs like a moose, and looked fast and strong. Storm looks thin and fragile in comparison.
It’s true, Poyer was in pads today, but Wheaton took all the punt return reps. Poyer is working in slowly. Caleb Smith is a big kid with a great upside, except he has stone hands. The ball just hits him like a rock and hits the ground. He also seems very quiet and gets down on himself easily. Emotions on the sleeve thing.
You want to know who hustles his ass off, smiles a lot, works hard, and kicks butt while clearly having a good time? Michael Phillips. The guy is Mr. Hustle and just seems like he is having a ball on the practice field. He is fun to watch and must be a pleasure to coach. He is just a happy guy.
Any day I escape a parking ticket from the Pinto Pigs is a good day.
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Rick Neuhisalllal just dropped “deal” that was so Riley-request. Made me chuckle.
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Has Riley booted three guys off the team this year? Trosin, Aluesi, and Chris the Knife. Any others?
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Not to pick on Trosin but he is an example of why video cut and paste evaluations have limited value. He looked fantastic on tape in high school. He looks great on select highlights at jc. But on 3 out of 4 plays in real life, he goes half speed. Granted, I only saw him once on a 100 degree day. But I think that it would be fairly easy to scout him, predict his game and limit his effectiveness.
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bone says:
My view on the whole Mannion vs. Vaz situation is that I think Vaz better in the role of Ace in the Hole, while Mannion is better as the ace……But then again I thought the same with James Harden when he left OKC, but he seems to be doing just fine.
It’s a tough call, I can see why Riley has been saying he has 2 starting quarterbacks. I just wonder how long the leash is going to be for Vaz.
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Numbers says:
Here’s a brain dead pac12 network deal, and I’m glad the Beavs aren’t involved for,a change.
My understanding was the P12 network was the fall back for games not sold to national networks like abc, espn, fox, fx. Well there is no PAC game in the 330/400 time slot. Why not move USC or Washington to that slot and avoid the doubling up of p12 games? Maximize exposure/ make money for conference? Wth?
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While I’m sure the PTN really wants to get rid of the UW game and replace it with a sleeping dog or paint drying, who’s going to buy it?
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Not looking for anyone to buy it. Leave it on P12 network, as the only p12 game at 330, I’d watch it. Hide it behind two other p12 games at 730 and I certainly won’t watch it. Like I said, glad the Beavs aren’t the ones getting screwed this week.
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No offense, but after seeing UW play for two consecutive weeks I’ve seen enough of UW.
They are just a bad team playing bad football. Other teams don’t play down to their level. Other teams just suck as much as they do when they play them. I thought their defense would be better this year at least. But they are just a mess.
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Ok, then un-hide the USC game and move it to the 330 slot. Are you really missing this point Jack? The average home can only watch 1 game at a time. Why play all the games at the same time? That destroys viewership. What drives all this new Pac12 money any how. Missing the point seems really similar to how so many overpaid incompetent CEOs run American companies lately.
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My point is that you really want to hide any UW game if it’s possible. Home markets want to see it, but the conference can’t afford a national audience watching that product.
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Actually, it’s not all a joke to me. The less the nation sees of UW, the less they wonder how we lost to them and downgrade us.
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whatever says:
Huh? The schedule I’ve seen is:
AZ/Col at 1:30 on FX
USC/ASU at 3 on Pac 12
OSU/Stan at 3 on FoxUtah/UW at 7:30 on Pac 12
Ore/Cal at 7:30 on ESPN
UCLA/WSU at 7:30 on ESPN 2
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Before the whole QB thing gets in the way…
I wanted to say I thought the defense really played well once they settled down and adjusted to those quick outs. There were a couple drives where running on the edge seemed a weakness, but they locked that down within the drives themselves with great play from Doctor, Alexander, TZ and Murphy. And it was nice to see Watkins and Martin play good games as well with the extended time they saw. Yes, they all made some mistakes here and there. But their confidence seemed to rise from play to play and has been getting better from game to game.
And it all stems from great play up front. I know those guys aren’t racking up the glamor plays and making what appears to be the game-changing play you see on highlights. But those guys are playing disciplined ball and actually racking up some of the dirty stats that allow everyone else to make those plays.
I still think this D is a year away from being outstanding. I think they’re on the verge of being great right now. But they’re so young right now. And we need to still land some beef to fill in the middle of the front. I look forward to Skotte taking over the middle. He looked good on ST the other day. And I think he’ll make us forget about that other headhunter who wore #32 a couple years ago.
I know we have a lot of tweeners making up the depth on the front. But Tago seems to be the only legitimate stopper left after this year. If we get one or two JC DTs, I’m looking forward to seeing this D play for a couple more years.
And I have a question about our recent recruiting tendencies. Does it seem we’re going with the old Tom Osborne method of recruiting D players? We seem to have a lot of DB’s who are great ballers either already committed or looking hard. Are we going to convert some of these kids to LB when all is said and done?
We may have had our doubts about Perry and his recruiting. But the way he has the DBs playing, I’m not surprised a lot of kids are excited about OSU. I think that was the upside of his hire that we discussed in the first place. But I’m surprised kids are responding as positively as they are. It can’t just be because we’re winning this year.
Can it?
I mean… it’s just so hard to recruit to Corvallis… you know… that real college town… that haven a lot of recruits this year are talking about being a surprise when they visit because they love the small town feel and the concentration on college life.
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That’s an interesting perspective. Despite the benefits of an additional year’s experience, I tended to see next year’s defense as weaker due to the loss of Poyer, the inexperience at MLB, and the lack of known size and production at DT. I also think Fifita was a good surprise this year and will be missed.
I must admit, one of the biggest surprises of the year has been the play of the DT’s. I was sure they were undersized and depth was lacking.I agree while they are not making many highlight films, but they are creating opportunities for others. I wonder how effective that will be against UO, where the most success against them seems to be in big fast DTs that can penetrate and disrupt in the backfield.
Next year’s DTs according to the current roster:
Bennett-Jackson, Brandon 6-3 267 RS FR
Collins, Desmond 6-4 269 RS FR
Harrah, Blake 6-1 265 RS JR
Lopez, Joe 6-0 273 SO
Rosa, Mana 6-3 276
Tago, Noke 6-1 290 FRI read in fall camp this year Banker was comparing one of these young guys to former OSU DT Manning, who was a first team Pac-10 player. And hopefully Noke is just so strong and quick he can contribute with raw ability until he gains experience and improves.
I still miss Fred, who I think is forgotten with all of this winning. This year’s D could have been a notch better rotating him in, and next year would likely have been beast mode for big Fred.
Hoping Riley the Squirrel finds two JC DT acorns…according to Scout OSU currently has offers to 6 DT’s, two of which are JCs – Demetrius Campbell and Edwin Delva, each 6’3″ 290lbs+ “three stars” so they have legitimate size.
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Objective,
I could have written that. Agree 100%. Poyer will be a huge loss from a leadership standpoint as well.
I would not assume we are better next year. That will be the challenge for the staff. Need to hit some home runs on a couple ready to play DT’s. We are really thin at safety and do we have some speed guys to spell/ or replace our two outstanding OLB’s. Fifta, Castro, and Andrew S have played well beyond expectations. Go Beavs! -
I think a JUCO DT is necessary just for depth and immediate play. But we need to get back to developing real DTs instead of relying on two year players who might or might not pan out. Our current depth problems are because of one tragedy and several JUCO misses.
If Collins and Bennet-Jackson work out, then good enough for that class. But we need more kids at DT always. Give me two per class, and Ill give you a winning football team every year.
Right now I like Nick Terry and Antonio McGhee. but I think Terry is better suited to be a DE in our system (a true DE, not a light-in-the-pants DE who would be a small LB in the NFL). I also like Darien Freeman in an Elvis Dumervil (only with more size and strength) kind of way. There are a lot of under the radar kids who I think will make good additions to this team.
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The defense looked like they were concentrating on substituting and getting on and off the field quickly. Probably a warmup for Oregon’s tempo and it was nice to see some hustle.
I actually think this defense can play pretty well vs Oregon. Not saying they’ll stop them but they tackle 10000x better than USC and there’s some pretty good athletes out there.
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Oregons defense is a little beat up right now. Remmington was in a boot after USC. Alonso is till nursing an injury. Cal will give them some rest, but hopefully those hosses at Stanford will give them the business prior to the Civil War.
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You mean it had a tube, some heat source and bubbling water?
They call those vaporizers now?
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Similar in design, but a more efficient and less toxic way of getting the people what they want. I myself no longer partake in the consumption of wacky tobacky, but the word on the street is that the vaporizer is the cats pajamas.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOI8ZpRBcS4&w=420&h=315
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Rob Mosley of the Eugene Register Guard was on the radio earlier and was reporting on the Ducks injury concerns on the D-line. Remington appears to be injured bad enough to sit out this week. Ricky Heimuli injured his knee vs USC and is also likely out. Dion Jordan has a shoulder injury and might also be out. Apparently they’re planning to take the redshirt off freshman Alex Balducci to help plug holes the rest of the year.
Oregon is pretty tight lipped about injuries, but if they’re deciding to pull the redshirt this late in the year, they must be pretty concerned. Cal will provide a little time to heal, but, as I said before, Stanford might be the perfect pre-Civil War opponent to put their D-line’s health to the test. Any further injuries and you have to think OSU will have a decent chance to control the time of possession in the Civil War with our run game. A few turnovers forced by our D and that game could be very interesting.
Of course, gotta beat the Trees first. “beavers eat trees!!”
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End of game interception by Steven Christian. Who??? Read his bio on the football website. Wow!!!
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Yeah I agree, wow.
http://www.osubeavers.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/christian_steven00.html -
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Does the average DI football player have an INT against Todd Graham’s dream job?
I think not.
Therefore I isn’t.
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Given how many Dream Jobs Todd Graham has, yes, the average DI football player DOES have an INT against them.
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Well I think it’s great that the kid perservered through hip surgeries (plural), has completed his undergrad studies, is enrolled in a Masters program, and still found his way onto the football field for a top-10 caliber football team playing in a pivotal game and recorded an interception.
Yeah, pretty pedestrian circumstances.
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PdX says:
I got my Sin’n Dat Beaverjuice shirt today from beavsarmy. Link below.
Not sure I like the “beavers army” theme. Don’t like the rip on the Timbers Army. Just like last year when there was some dude walking the sidelines with a chainsaw. I am all for a grassroots fan support group or whatever, but I just am not a real big fan of the “army” part.
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/396610_10100471021750628_1455462287_n.jpg
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The hardest position to recruit at the jc level is defensive tackle. There are not as many qualified recruits when you take into consideration size, speed and strength. You can have really good undersized high motor over achievers or have guys huge and slow at the jc level. It is just not so easy to find diamands in the rough or kids that just need 20-30 lbs and a bit of development, It is much easier to find serviceable offensive lineman (typically late bloomers), linebackers, dbs, running backs and receivers (more likely nonqualifiers or bounce backs). I have criticized the Beaver dependence on Mt SAc. But I have to admit, Fifita was a great find and a very useful contributor. He is a model for the type of JC guy to recruit, because depth means everything at the PAC 12 level.
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Interesting read:
http://seattletimes.com/html/cougars/?from=stnv2
I know we’re not aloud to give Mike Riley too much credit on this site, but holy shit can we all at least agree about how lucky we are to have Riley instead of Leach? And to think we were all jealous of that hire in the off season…
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*Copied the link before clicking of the article:
http://seattletimes.com/html/budwithers/2019614539_withers06.html
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Fightingbeaver says:
If Riley coaches another game this season like he did the UW game then I doubt of we are “lucky”. Let’s see how capable he is in getting the team to a worth while bowl finally. And does Riley have the ability to win against our rival Oregon or are we going to lose No. 5 in a row? Like ESPN stated, we are in control of our destiny and led by Riley. If we get to the Rose Bowl or Alamo Bowl I can honestly say Riley got us there. If not then its the same old shit.
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Krogercomplete says:
I am not sure any team in the country can beat the ducks this year, and I am certainly not blaming Riley for that.
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I don’t see anywhere in my post that I would blame Riley for losing to the ucks did I? Are you giving up on our team being able to beat the ucks? Are you old enough to remember the 2000 Civil War? I referred to the possible loss as another disappointment……nothing more, nothing less.
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“Let’s see how capable he is in getting the team to a worth while bowl finally. And does Riley have the ability to win against our rival Oregon or are we going to lose No. 5 in a row?”
Not going to blame Riley for another Civil War loss? Could have fooled me.
My point is that, while fans attach alot of significance to rivalry games (and I understand that), the fact that the Civil War is a rivalry game really says nothing about our prospects of success in any given year. Your post sums up the problem: some fans single out the Civil War as something uniquely within our grasp simply because it is a rivalry game, so that if we lose the Civil War again this year, it reflects worse on the team (or Riley) than say, a loss to Alabama this year would.
I certainly hope the Beavs pull it off, and I don’t think a win is out of the question, I just don’t think it is likely, and I won’t view the loss any different than a loss to Alabama in terms of how I measure Riley’s success this season.
And speaking of giving up on your team, I’d refer you to every single one of your pre-season posts on this site. I think you’ve lost the ability to call anyone out.
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I have often wondered how UO’s mean yardage and points output under Kelly compares to UO’s mean yardage and points output against OSU in the last 4 CWs. Likey, UO isn’t beating up on OSU any more than they have anyone else.
As I recall, Kelly (as UO head coach) has lost to BSU twice, Ohio State, LSU, Auburn, and USC. In four years.
I think they have WAY too much speed and diversity this year. If you get tired of chasing DAT or Barner, here, tackle Colt Lyera(sp?). They’re are actually probably throwing better down field now, So a guy like Poyer is going to be less available for run support. This is a program loaded with speed and continuing, high potential. The foundation upon which the program is built is in my opinion unethical – I can’t trust anybody from ANY state institution who gets to write $25K checks with nothing received in return – but they risked the implications of cheating and are thus far reaping rewards. The program has a rep, recognition, and attractiveness to top recruits. This doesn’t slow down until Chip leaves, his O coordinator takes over, and things slowly degrade from there. They would probably become like the post-Carrol USC; still a major threat any saturday, but not near the dominant team they once were.
Recently, we’ve seen what UO can do when they don’t take the starters out at the half. And while I like OSU’s D against UO better than USC’s, OSU’s offense is not consistently high scoring. If OSU keeps this year’s CW within 21 I’d be surprised.
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tree10 says:
Police on their way to Sean Martin’s apartment right now. Someone called 911 and there was screaming in the background.
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Grape says:
https://twitter.com/r_harrington12/status/265944418937344000/photo/1
Richie Harrington was on the Pac-12 website cover lol?
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helicopterbeav says:
Stanford will test the Beavs like they haven’t been tested so far this year. I like the Beav’s chances. I think they can bully them and wear ‘em down. These are the games that separate top ten teams from the “others receiving votes” category.
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I think the D will be the difference again. Stanford’s mobile QB will have his moments, but the difference between Colorado and OSU defenses is significant and he’ll ultimately lose.
Actually, besides OSU’s ability to run, my concern is the “early” start time. Once the standard, the midday start is now an aberration for this team; is there a risk of being flat?
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No. The risk will be next week’s late start time against Cal again. While looking forward to the Ducks, I worry that we come out flat. Though Cal is so dejected and disabled right now that Colorado is the only team I rather see than them right before the CW. Stanford will be a test, but UW was the only game I was highly concerned about before the CW on the second half of our schedule.
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I’ll be terrified of the Cal game if we beat Stanford. A big, hard fought win on the road, then you have a struggling Cal at home and the Ducks the following week. If that’s not a trap, I don’t know what is.
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I’m looking forward to the game this week (I’ll be there live!!) because I think that we’re the better team. Stanford plays well at home, but their schedule has been a fair amount of fluff (Colorado, Cal, WSU, Duke, SDSU). Putting in Hogan will prove to go badly for them. The confidence he gained at Colorado will quickly diminish when laid into by the Beav’s D. Most likely we’ll see Nunes come in to try and right the ship, but I see the Beavs laying it on in the second half. Wheaton and Cooks have monster games and we break 100+ rushing with a combo of backs. Vaz plays above average and Beavs win by 13.
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BeaverBill says:
My biggest concern besides winning at Stumpford is getting away from the game with no injuries. This will be smash mouth football. Because of this I do believe Vaz is the guy to start with… he doesn’t back down but in fact he get’s pissed. Exactly what will be needed. If Mannion has to come in at least Stumpford will be softened up a bit, although if Riley puts Mannion in, it will most likely be too late to make a difference – Riley, as we all know, hasn’t a good sense of time in games.
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BeavInEugene says:
“Riley, as we all know, hasn’t a good sense of time in games.”
Sure pulled Agnew pretty quickly and put in Ward. Seemed to work well.
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Injuries are a real concern, especially with the lack of back-ups at several spots. It looks so fortunate for the Beavs that they face Stanford and then Cal and not the other way around as do the Ucks. Having what should be a soft game just before the CW should be a plus for the Beavs.
Anyone else concerned about Isaac and his nagging hip soreness? The article I read mentioned Nielsen as the backup for all OL positions and didn’t say a thing about Roman Sapolu who, I thought was the backup center. Isaac has been key to the improved OL and it is hard to picture much success if he were to miss significant playing time.
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Man those horses steroids worked quick. Can those be injected into other body parts to make them horse-like?
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Hmmm, given Isaac’s future (assuming he’s healthy) and the OL recruiting haul last class, is it too late to convert sophomore Roman Sapolu to a DT in spring camp 2013? Maybe could become a role player/provide depth. He should certainly know how to take on an interior lineman.
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Well, if Nielsen (another soph) really is an able backup, I think you have a good idea there. Sapolu has as much size as the other DT’s on the roster for next year; which is to say serviceable but less than ideal
This hip thing has been following Isaac all season, I don’t know if it can improve after the season is over. Hasn’t kept him from playing yet but there is a lot of work still to do, maybe he can get some rest if the Cal game becomes a blowout. Isaac’s health seems to be his only drawback, as far as smarts, strength, and competitive attitude he is all we could ask for. Particularly as a freshman. I had thought it would be best for him to get a season under his belt at Guard, without playcalling responsibilities…I was wrong.
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” I had thought it would be best for him to get a season under his belt at Guard, without playcalling responsibilities…I was wrong.”
Exactly what I thought, I was wrong too.
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Sparkyd73 says:
If you think about it, it is a very rare case when a kid can come out of HS and play in their first year as an OL. The reason is that they need a year of strength training and adding weight. I think it is likely that with a year of training, Isaac will be able to add some strength and likely take care of his hip trouble. This year has been quite impressive for a true freshman playing such an important position.
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I can’t believe more people haven’t seen this. the single most important youtube video of allllll times.[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-De2xm16l80&w=560&h=315
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I think it’s awesome that you found that. I remember seeing that video of the Cos on the jumbotron and wondering what the hell he was saying. I still didn’t know until now. “Beavers eat Trees!!”
I think most of the people in the crowd were wondering, WTF?
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What’s with all that Block O stuff on his sweatshirt and hat? Doesn’t he know that he’s not edgy, modern, hip, cool… or whatever other stupid adjective those wanting a money grab can employ?
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It’s definitely bold, powerful and traditional. But why would anyone want that in college sports?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEMihZtSjmU
You’re all so very welcome: best receiver in OSU history.
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A math lesson for all:
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Good article.
Joe Avezzano and his dad have watched many, many, many football games over the last (ahem) several decades and Joe’s dad always disgustedly murmured, “Aw, a field goal.”
Joe greatly wishes he were able to alert Dad to this article and inform him it only took about fifty years for his feelings to be vindicated.
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USC caught cheating again. Man Kiffin is so desparate to stay relevant. you know that saying about smart criminals being the ones who don’t get caught? Well, Kiffin has been caught twice this year already. no shame in LA
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Check out the picture on the Oregonian article about this…
The typical double-fisted hold. I’ve never seen a team get away with so many, open field, obvious holds than Oregon. I wonder if they play so fast that the referees get caught up in the blur? I know every team on just about every play could be called for holding, but not like these guys!
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You don’t need soft hands to handle them. At least according to 1080thefan radio guy Dusty Harrah, who appears to be handling Dwight Jaynes old uninflated balls….he sounds so excited
Dwight Jaynes ?@dwightjaynes
RT @Dusty_Harrah: You are right on…….Softer ball reduces the need for soft hands! More give
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USC fined and student manager fired for tampering with footballs after they had been inspected by officials prior to game. Perhaps a previous observation was not a conspiracy theory.
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This is why Fink is Fink.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2012/10/24/usc-ncaa-rulebook-changing-jerseys/1654375/He’s just a cheater at heart.
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the funny thing about that was they used the tactic against Colorado. What was the point of that, except maybe as a test to see if they’d get away with it the next week vs Oregon.
Gotta love how Oregon fans are calling out USC as cheaters today and saying USC knows they can’t beat Oregon in a “fair” game of football, so they have to cheat.
Pot, meet kettle. Such short memories…..
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Eggers has a couple quotes of some interest. Langs apparently has learned that, “productive high school players are usually productive college players.” WOW!
And, Enger says Sean was the guy “they” picked; is it reading too much into that to think Vaz is the players favorite? I really don’t know.portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/122826-three-years-of-work%20pay-off-for-starter-vaz
And, Cliff has a story on “battles at the bottom of (the) pile”. We’ve discussed Dylan Wynn’s attitude before, he (along with others) has some good quotes in the article. Gotta love that kid!
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Mannion was voted by the players as a team captain. The first sophomore to have that honor. Yes, you’re reading WAY to much into that comment. Pretty clear that Mannion as the respect of his teammates. He was having a great year and got hurt, and came back possibly to early and made some bad throws.
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I think you are correct, and yeah, I was pretty impressed when Sean was voted captain. I didn’t say I was reading into the comment, just saw it only as a possibility.
It does seem though that the team responds very well to Vaz, I think we are lucky to have both QB’s.
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The comment you refer to is about Mannion, not Vaz.
IMO, neither of them can play like their last outing and expect to win. Our D needs to cover some butt at Stanford.
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It seems like an OSU/ND Rose Bowl could be a possibility, assuming OSU can beat Stanford and Cal.
That would be tremendous exposure for the OSU program. I think the Beavs 2-0 record against ND and ND’s last visit to the RB being 1925, OSU’s being 1965, would be interesting side stories.
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Hmm, maybe I read the article too quickly. Mandel implies ND could take the place of a PAC-12 team, not play against them.
I’d love to see the RB pick up the Beavs and take ND over the Big 10 champ if they have that authority.
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I think the only way that happens is if the B1G champ is not rated in the top 14 in the final BCS poll. And we would need the same rating in order to be eligible for an at large berth.
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bleedsorange says:
Nope, the Big-10 champ is guaranteed a spot in the Rose Bowl unless they are selected for the National Title Game…
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Nope, the B1G champ is only guaranteed a spot in a BCS bowl game.
http://www.bcsfootball.org/news/story?id=4819597What stinks is that Louisiana Tech could conceivably be ranked in the top 16 and higher than the B1G champ. That would give them an automatic berth. And if Notre Dame is not in the top 8 with an auto berth at the end, we all know some BCS bowl will select them as an at large with (likely) one loss at most.
That leaves only two at-large spots among every school who qualifies for such a bid.
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Gdub says:
The Rose Bowl is contractually obligated to take the Big-10 champion no matter where they are in the BCS standings unless the Big-10 champion is in the BCS title game. Your link has that information further down
Read team selection procedures……………
2. Unless they qualify to play in the NCG, the champions of selected conferences are contractually committed to host selected games:
Atlantic Coast Conference-Orange Bowl
Big Ten Conference-Rose Bowl
Big 12 Conference-Fiesta Bowl
Pac-12 Conference-Rose Bowl
Southeastern Conference-Sugar Bowl-
Gotcha… I was too wrapped up in the eligibility and the likelihood that the B1G’s post-season bans would knock out a deserving at large… us or anyone if it came to that.
Notice below that it also gives reasons bowls tied to certain conferences can forgo the champs from those conferences–played the same bowl game last season, the two teams slated for the bowl played in the regular season, etc.
But below that it also says the Rose Bowl does not change under any circumstance other than the BCSCG berth. It’s safe to say the B1G champ will not be in the BCSCG, so that’s one guaranteed slot. But if OSU or Nikegon go to the BCSCG, then I believe only Nikegon can survive the CW loss that comes with either circumstance in order to make a BCS game… without help. We need for Clemson or OU to go down in order for us to take another loss and make an argument for a berth.
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there is no way OSU makes the title game. It’s pretty simple really. Win out and we go to the rose. Beat Stanford and lose the civil war we still have a good shot if the ducks win the pac-12 title game and go to the NC. IF we lose this weekend I cannot see us being in the top 14 with 3 losses. The other thing we want is UW to win out. I know they are a mediocre team at best but a loss to an 8-4 team is a little less of a head scratcher for those that did not witness it. Their schedule is pretty soft from here on out. Utah, Colorado and WSU. They could easily win out. At this point I don’t think we could do any worse than the sun bowl in hell paso. Bowls may only jump down one spot in the standings to take a team worse than us. We have one loss as does Stanford in the Pac-12. Every one else has at least 3. Win this weekend or beat Cal and we can probably do no worse than the holiday bowl. After the last 2 years I would be ecstatic with the holiday bowl.
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Crossing fingers for a BCS bowl, but if it doesn’t happen, I’d almost rather go to the Vegas Bowl than the Alamo. As a traveling fan that is. Vegas will have OSU hoops playing San Diego State at the MGM that same day. Would be fun to catch that double header, even if the level of competition in the bowl would be a dissapointment.
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yes lets go to the vegas bowl and play another MWC team. BYU maybe (again)? Eff that. I’d rather step up in competition and play a team from the Big-12 in either the holiday or alamo bowls if we don’t go to Pasadena. Besides, the chances of us falling all the way to the vegas bowl are slim and we would have to probably lose the rest of our games sans nicholls state. We are not going to lose to Cal at home or nicholls state. Worst case scenario we finish the regular season 9-3. 9-3 will get us to a better bowl game than vegas offers
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I hear you ncaa. That would be a fun weekend for once. I personally don’t like Vegas. But my wife loves it. And so long as I can just spend the day going to OSU games I’d be happy.
As for making the BCSCG… I think we still have an outside shot. Everyone still has to play their games of course. OSU winning out makes a great argument for that berth if KSU and ND both lose late. The only other possible one loss team who could really make a claim would be the winner of Florida/Florida St.
It’s all hypothetical, of course.
I guess one other scenario would have UGA beating Bama in the SEC CG, and they would make the BCSCG a rematch of that game. That would be boring.
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OT… Barnhart fired Joker Phillips the other day, and the name most associated with replacing him is Booby Petrino.
Calipari and Booby at the same school?
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Old news. Barnhart has emphatically stated that Petrino will not be considered. They are more likely to look at Sonny Dykes, Gus Malzahn, Butch Jones or another regional shooting star. They fired Phillips now so that they could target another head coach before the likes of Auburn and Tennessee could officially make their moves. Officially, they are only now competing with Arkansas.
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I’m glad ASU didn’t get Dykes. That would be an unhappy circumstance for everyone in the Pac. And I don’t think Dykes takes the UK job. More appealing and more probable would be heading to Tennessee once Dooley gets the axe.
I’m not sold on Malzahn.
Jones seems to be a good coach, but he has yet to step off of Brian Kelly’s coattails. I personally think he’s good at the x’s and o’s, but I have to wonder how he might do trying to get his own players into his system when the previous system was such a failure.
Some rumors have Willie Taggart as the lead candidate.
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Nice article on Michael Beaton.
http://www.dailybarometer.com/what-i-cherish-is-my-strength-1.2947955#.UJwVQoYhSSpI hope he does well with his first love.
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Beaver Byte says:
I disagree with John Hunt on OSU’s ideal run-pass ratio for Stanford. Can’t see OSU winning running it 40% or less. Our winning % numbers don’t back Langnam Style of being overly pass happy. We have to maintain close to 50-50 balance and let that set up manageable 3rd downs and higher % throws where the defense doesn’t know what is coming. It won’t be easy to maintain that discipline so Riley better keep the playcalling duties throughout this game. This one is a ‘big’ game that Riley in my opinion is due for and does need to prove he can win. As long as the players and coaches are all laser focused, determined and playing with deep passion, then I believe this OSU team will prevail and make Beaver Nation proud and very happy with our bowl situation.
#11 Oregon State at #14 Stanford:
http://beaverbyte.com -
Jack says:
OT… watching the VaTech/FSU game, and Chip Kelly was the spokesperson for a UPS commercial talking about logistics and shit.
What can brown do for you?
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GreatWhiteHunter says:
The Beavers are 7-1 against the spread. It’s been easy money…would have been easier money if I had the cajones to bet a little bigger. I’m going to drop $50 on the moneyline (+160), and another $50 to cover +4.5. My gut says over 44.5…but it could be a defensive matchup. A quick look at the predictions i’ve seen from the prognosticators puts it at 42 or so….lots of 24-17 type predictions. I still think over though…am I crazy?
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I am thinking the same as you. 27-22. Maybe some defensive scores that push it above the over. The Cardinal wins have come against soft comp. Not sure who wins though. There seems to be some confidence in the Beavs, and I can see why, but I am also leary of their play action. This going to be close that could be decided on special teams.
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Which lines are you looking at? I know we didn’t cover against either Washington school
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Bernarnd’s little bro must have some speed – rated by one S-I writer as the 20th best prospect in next year’s draft:
“20) Giovani Bernard, RB, North Carolina* — Bernard is highly thought of in the scouting community, and the recent injury to Marcus Lattimore unequivocally makes him the top running back prospect in the nation. He’s a complete ball carrier who can handle a lot of carries or beat opponents catching the ball out of the backfield.”
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Hoops tonight, guys and gals:
http://www.thefirstrow.eu/watch/151895/1/watch-niagara-vs-oregon-state.html -
Robinson featured in his own article?
Based on what Bray says about the young guys, they must not be showing much in terms of execution and consistency if Robinson fills any of one of the three spots before they do.
“Guys who play are guys who can execute. If six show me in practice they can execute, they play. If four do, then four play.”
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Probably the mental stuff. In all fairness, RR has been much better this year, He just does not have the speed and reaction time needed for our style of D. If we lose a starter, we are screwed. Major drop off. This should have been a recruiting priority this year. Why did the Fabio look alike, Cowdin, bail after spring ball? One potential benefit of the Nic State game, if we play it would be to get some extended playing time for the backups so the coaches can see what we have. Go Beavs!
PS: MR, find a way to keep Bray.
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For real? Beeeeoch. He must be pissed he missed out on this season. Where did he end up?
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Hated Corvallis but ended up at Utah state, that makes no sense have you been to Logan ut?
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osubaby says:
Big Suke from 1080 the fan said that he has never seen a team hold more than oregon does. He said all teams hold, but was surprised at how much they hold and get away with it. He was guessing that this was how the oline was taught. He figured the reason they get away with is is b/c the linemen are stride for stride with the defender(they kept moving thier feet). Once you lose the defender it then pushes you to grab and hold and the ref sees it. He went on to say that the WR are also very guily of holding but again they keep moving their feet so they get away with it.
I thought this was very interesting, at least other people in sports are seeing this and reporting on it. I doubt anything will be done.
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Anyone heard much about Neuheisel’s remarks regarding the Ucks continually getting away with illegal linemen/receivers downfield?
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While it would be construed as whining and lobbying, couldn’t OSU put together tapes of those demonstrable behaviors and link them to rules, send it to appropriate level of PAC 12 officiators prior to the CW?
I just get irritated when everyone acts like “that blur offense is so fast you can’t stop it” or “those guys are so fast they run off big play after big play.”
Allow a pro-set team to hold, or have illegal receivers down field, and you’d see big plays and lots of scoring too….
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Isn’t this where the respect for Mike Riley could be advantageous?
I don’t care about the whining/lobbying label if that’s what is necessary for the game to be played according to the rules. While I have always thought that MR should discuss this with the zebras before the game, your suggestion of tapes is much better.
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I have no doubt that it’s taught. I also fits with their blocking scheme. The O lineman is pushing the defender with his energy, and then the defender reverses his motion and tries to slide off/shed the lineman after he makes a read on which way the ball is going. That hold by the lineman slows them just enough so the ball carrier is just out of reach when he hits the hole.
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Some nice job diagramming and breaking down UO/USC plays with some motion video at the end of each:
http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2012/11/8/3617030/scouting-oregon-rest-of-the-pac-breakdown
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Ummm… does anyone else wonder how you can run trips left with two in the backfield and the TE on the left side?
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WTF?
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I think that TE is on the right side, the pic isn’t clear and the writer got it wrong I believe.
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From today’s SL Tribune – “Keeping in mind that published point spreads are not predictions — they’re just designed to attract betting on both sides — I’ve never been more surprised by a line than Utah’s being a slight favorite at Washington.”
I’m passing it along to AB because we mostly hate the Huskies and I thought the line about published point spreads was amusing.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/utes/55243652-89/utes-byu-game-seattle.html.csp
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I don’t really hate the pups. I mean, they have used car salesmen instead of coaches, and their team is just terrible. But I don’t really have any feelings good or bad toward them.
I did hate losing to them in the way we did.
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If you watch the Oregon dbs, they hold too. The interception in the endzone by #14 vs USC was a direct result of holding as opposed to pass interference. They hold and release which is hard to call. It appears that they do teach holding at all positions and realize that it can’t be called for every position on every play.
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beaverjim says:
How can we be so behind the times?
Look what Arkansas is doing with their facility master plan and construction updatesI mean if they dropped a little coin on a rendering of future reser expansion that would be something for donors to get excited about.
Where is the vision and why is our athletic department so behind the times??
Btw, what is happening to the 15-20 mil per year of new pac-12 money? Last time I heard most was being dedicated to debt service, are details on that?
Regarding Riley’s contract, I know he just got another year added with the bowl game this year. In the interest of flexibility, what would you think about giving Riley a raise now in return for eliminating the automatic bowl extensions (i.e. buying out the 1018 and beyond years in return for a raise now??
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Some time back we discussed the intensity of Dylan Wynn. As I remember, angry was pretty much alone in feeling that he came across as strange/weird. Just posted is another interview with Blake Brennan where she talks with Dylan. Even in this setting his intensity comes through for me.
http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2012/11/blake_and_the_beavers_dylan_wy.html#incart_river
He was the player guest on radio last night as well.
Seems like a real balancing act for the coaching staff to manage the exposure of players; I think it was smart of Riley to designate Tue and Wed as days when the press had to leave the players alone. Also, I remember Riley limiting access to the dining area.
Pitfalls with too much or too little exposure, and so dependent on the individual player. Generally, during the season, I think leaning toward less rather than more is the safest way to go. Thoughts? -
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Collier isn’t starting tonight vs. Niagra, anyone know why? Moreland is taking his place.
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