25.Jun.2013 Oregon Sanctions (Finally)

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Sounds like scholarship reduction without a bowl ban, which would equate to a wrist slap.

Oregon would be the big winner.

The big losers, of course, will be the casual fan and the NCAA. It’s probably not a good thing for college sports when fans, in the comment area on ESPN, write things like “Oregon will get off because of Phil Knight”…that’s what this sport has evolved into, and the fans accepting tomorrow’s outcome (or writing angry tweets, then ordering sports packages and watching every game) will allow it to continue. Vote with your time and money, people–the wallet is mightier than the pen or sword.

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  • wannabeav says:
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    it’s the hidden, insidious, stuff, that’s the worst part of the Nike control mechanism; like ESPN announcers being on personal services contracts with the company; the US track team at the Olympics with Duck yellow track shoes; that kind of stuff. sickening.

    • angry angry says:
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      That stuff is sickening, but it’s more sickening the media turns a blind eye or bites their lip, and the fans write off major violations as “oh well, they have phil knight’s money”…

      NCAA football is nearing Jersey Shore level.

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    “Sounds like scholarship reduction without a bowl ban, which would equate to a wrist slap.”

    Where is this coming from? Oregon hasn’t even been given the ruling yet.

    • angry angry says:
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      Reading between the lines.

      Hence “sounds like”, “would be”, etc.

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    Subscribing

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    Brandon Sprague (@BrandonSprague) tweeted at 7:22 AM on Wed, Jun 26, 2013:
    RT @BFeldmanCBS #Oregon will NOT get hit with any bowl ban due to NCAA sanctions, per source

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    If this is true, this is more like a handjob than a slap on the wrist.

  • FatDog says:
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    UofOkay to cheat.

  • Beavalum says:
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    Did I hear correctly that the scholarhip reduction is 1 F-ing scholarship?!

    • tim318 says:
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      One per year for 3 years.

      UO shows that if you come clean, play dumb, and self report, the sanctions are much softer than they could be. Compare that to what USC is going through (albeit worse infractions).

      Where is the UO compliance office in this?

    • progressivebeav says:
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      http://www.goducks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=500&ATCLID=208515465

      Loss of one scholarship for two years.

      So Kelly gets show-caused but the team itself is hardly penalized. Usually if the coach gets hit hard, so does the team. What a joke.

      • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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        And theyve already met the scholarship reduction penalty by self imposing the last 2 years. So no change. Kelly gets banned from NCAA for 18 months, but hes making $9 MIL in Philly during that period anyway.

  • progressivebeav says:
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    Full list of penalties:

    *Public reprimand and censure.

    *Three years of probation from June 26, 2013 through June 25, 2016.

    *An 18-month show cause order for the former head coach.

    *A one-year show-cause order for the former assistant director of operations.

    *A reduction of initial football scholarships by one during the 2012-13 and 2013-14 years (imposed by the university).

    *A reduction of total football scholarships by one from the maximum allowed (85) during the 2013-14, 2014-15 and 2015-16 academic years (imposed by the university).

    *A reduction of official paid football visits to from 56 to 37 for the 2012-13, 2013-14 and 2014-15 academic years.

    *A reduction of permissible football evaluation days from 42 to 36 in the fall of 2013, 2014 and 2015 and permissible football evaluation days from 168 to 144 in the spring of 2014, 2015 and 2016.

    *A ban on the subscription to recruiting services during the probation period.

    *A disassociation of the recruiting service provider. Details of the disassociation are included in the public report (imposed by the university).

    So basically nothing

    • mckalk says:
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      As Chris Farley would have said “laddy frikkin’ dah”. Carry on you evil empire.

  • beavers4life says:
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    This isn’t a punishment! It’s merely trying to tell the university, “you don’t know how to recruit properly, so we’re going to help you out a bit in banning you from use of recruiting services…”That to me helps the university from making a mistake to utilizing a guy like Lyles again. I’ll tell you one thing, People who complain that NCAA COI is out to hurt the student-athletes now don’t have an argument…these sanctions clearly hurt the university and football team more.

    Recruiting will be interesting now because prospects can’t contact the coaches in regards to getting recruited. That means coaches will have to do their own scouting reports.

  • steveEbeaver says:
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    Now all we’ll hear out of those quack fans is, “see we didn’t do anything wrong or the NCAA would’ve have penalized us”.

  • angry angry says:
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    The NCAA has, in essence, deflected blame from the Ducks onto them.
    This sport is an absolute joke, and fans are the butt of it.

    *A ban on the subscription to recruiting services during the probation period.”

    No Casanova Center, that’s going to show them! /sarc

  • UofDuck says:
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    Howdy GreatWhite, nice to drop-in to a place that makes you feel so welcome. Anyhooo, I hate to say I told you so, Angry – actually no, that’s a lie.

    One man’s gray area is another man’s black hole. It’s all perspective.

    And now back to your regularly scheduled hate session.

    • Grape says:
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      “Perspective”
      Repeat offenders and now a slap on the wrist. Yes, perspective…

  • Jack says:
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    I’ve been saving this for a rainy day:
    http://www.uomatters.com/2013/02/knight-law-schools-football-and.html

    You just can’t make this stuff up. And be sure to delve into the comments as well. If anyone knows of any 400/500 level courses like this at OSU, please please please chime up.

    Meanwhile, back to that football team who somehow managed to pull themselves off the bottom of the APR pile for once.

    Enjoy!

  • UofDuck says:
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    Gloating is lame, I should not have. I can’t retract it. Feel free to do so, Angry.

    • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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      Maybe you can redact it? You ducks seem to do that well

    • mckalk says:
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      You’re entitled to your opinion, although I’m not sure I would gloat if the Beavers were “convicted” of wrong doing, but received a light sentence. I’m too much of a beliver in “luck o’ The Beavs”. One minute of cockiness equates to a season of suffering.

      I certainly hope the Ducks lose a game they shouldn’t next season and that will be satisfaction enough for me.

    • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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      Whatever the penalties are, from the obviously illegal use of Willie Lyles to get LaMichael James, the whole fan base now knows the BCS cruise under Chip Kelley was not done honestly. That whole episode is now and forever …tainted.

  • angry angry says:
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    College football is so so so lame.

    At this point I’ll watch just to view the train wreck. Can’t wait for pay for play in the name of fairness…lol.

    • ThaDuckMouth says:
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      Make sure you don’t miss the 6th straight win in the Civil War this year.

      • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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        Will this be another year of the slow fall in stature from the year of the title game? Its been a downward slide ever since. The decline of Duck football….

        • ThaDuckMouth says:
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          HAHAHA — downward slide? Decline? 4 straight BCS bowls — 2 of which are wins. Tell me … what is the state of Beaver football if Duck football is in a decline? Oh, that’s right … you still don’t know who your quarterback is.

  • Hellobeavers says:
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    I haven’t seen any mention of the new assistant basketball coach. Sorry if I just missed it somewhere.

    Freddie Owens, assistant from Montana. Montana has done well in their conference for years but that’s Big Sky. The guy considers his strengths to be recruiting and connecting with the players. I thought they would target a coach who can coach well.

    Jack – is this a good hire?

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      Now we have an in to the great recruiting hotbeds of Butte and Helena.

    • helmsley says:
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      That news “broke” just as we were mired in the baseball elimination game. I don’t have Jack’s expertise but here’s the Griz take on Owens. More an analysis of Oregon State and what Owens’s challenge will be rather than the other way around. http://www.gogriz.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/062513aaa.html

    • Jack says:
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      I’m not sure on Owens. He has great connections. So recruiting may be a plus. And he’s learned the game from technicians. So his x’s and o’s may be good or better.

      I think we just wait and see. It’s not like his abilities wouldn’t qualitatively translate to both areas.

  • angry angry says:
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    This was more like a love tap than wrist slap. Can’t let a little cheating get in the way of those lucrative ESPN Donald Duck commercials, you know?

    This with Mark Emmert and Ed Ray.in key roles, too, so it’s going to get worse.

    I repeat: fans are the losers. Not just Beaver fans, but college football fans. Duck fans, too, because they will forever have to defend their tainted historic run. Don’t think they’ll be as good without Kelly. Probably more like the Bellotti years upcoming.

    • ThaDuckMouth says:
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      Let’s talk about this horrible ‘cheating’ that you keep referring to that I guess to you deserves a bowl ban and lots lots more.

      First, subscribing to recruiting services is not against any rules … NONE. In fact, lots of programs do it. The problem here is that due to a rule change, every quarter the NCAA requires schools to file the reports of using these services of which Oregon did not file a report. Once learned about this problem, they filed the reports and put the self-imposed sanctions in place.

      So, please explain to me how Duck fans will ‘forever have to defend their tainted historic run’? What would of been the right punishment? How are the fans the losers?

      Are you seriously going to say that this is on the same level of USC or Ohio State? Most likely yes, based on your other comments.

      • angry angry says:
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        Because you guys hired Will Lyles to get close with players and steer them to Oregon.

        You saw the recruiting “services”, right? How the players listed were years old (a few of the guys on the list were dead).

        Come on, guy.

      • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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        In the same post you ask why Angry thinks the duck fans will be defending their team, while simultaneously defending them. You’re here, right?

      • Jack says:
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        Wait.

        Did someone who’s trying unsuccessfully to flame this thread just ask how Duck fans are losers?

        I’m calling it now. Nikegon will be 9-3 or worse next year. And there will be one large jumping off of one large bandwagon. I think they’ll maintain winning seasons for a while, but they’re on the way down.

        • UofDuck says:
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          So Jack, according to you, the Ducks are once again heading into a decline again this year? It’s becoming your annual rally cry for whatever new reason you cook up. I suppose it is therapeutic for you on some level. and serves as a coping balm. I recall that our “system” was a QB killer and wouldn’t last once defenses figured it out. Now even the NFL is adopting some of it. Our uniform flash would fade soon – now even Notre Dame and Michigan are following. As much as you detest it, it appears there are some folks at Oregon who are pretty darn sharp.

          If history is any indicator Jack, your foresight on all things Oregon football is a long, long way off the mark. I like our chances this year and in the years to come. As much as you want us to fail, your many theories of why, are really being exposed as nothing more than desperate hope. I don’t blame you, it’s hard to deal with your rival’s success. I feel it in baseball. But I’ve learned to recognize and appreciate talent, even if it is clad in orange and black. Props to you guys for having accumulated it and your level of execution with it.

          That being said, I very

          • Jack says:
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            If you want to play in the short term, you win. I’m playing the long game.

            I didn’t say the Ducks don’t have talent. I think 9 games is a good season. I’m saying the combination of defenses starting to figure “it” out combined with not really having to figure out Chip Kelly any more makes Nikegon just a good team going forward. It’s not like they didn’t make a BCS bowl being just a good team in the past. They may do it again this year and the next.

            But I think anyone who thinks Helfrich will match Kelly’s success doesn’t even remotely respect Kelly as a coach.

            We will start to hear excuses first. Then reality will sink in over time. The fall will be like the rise. And the fall will not be forever. It’s all cyclical. Note that I’m not saying Nikegon will ever have a sustained losing team. Their bottom may be one 6-7 season three years from now before they bounce back to double-digit wins six years from now.

            We’re pretty heavy on the numbers here, and the numbers play out this way. Imagine any of us saying the Beavs will reach the elite level for a sustained period given the numbers in place. While it’s possible, it’s unlikely.

            Btw… I think Stanford has gone through this process already and is poised to drop off due to offensive losses I don’t think they can overcome. They still have some defensive personnel who can play them into many games. I’m not pretending the NCAA is a parity league. But teams can only play on the “elite” level for so many years even with those coaches we think have a stranglehold on the game.

      • oneoldbeav says:
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        Mouth, are you seriously saying the way a subscription to a recruiting service was reported is the only problem?

        It has been well publicized that U of O ADMITS to these additional violations:
        • Recruiting violations by owner of recruiting/scouting service, who became a booster.
        • Impermissible phone calls placed by non-coaching staff members.
        • Exceeding coaching staff limitations.
        • Head coach’s failure to monitor.
        • Institutional failure to monitor.

        • angry angry says:
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          Then there’s the drug problem…

          • Jack says:
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            And paying runners in hoops for the past decade…

            Since paying runners out of the AD budget is what got them in trouble in the first place, I think the cuts in official visits won’t affect Nikegon recruiting in the least. They’ve learned that, like in hoops, they need bag men and no paperwork. I’m sure the “shiny new facilities” will be the running excuse for the influx in “unofficial” visits.

            Besides, what happens if a runner gets caught? Are they going to add a week to Kelly’s show cause?

          • angry angry says:
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            Yeah, I have heard a lot about this, but the only one I can ‘confirm’ is Bruce Barron. Have a detailed email about how he was purchased. It seems too elaborate and detailed to be made up, and the writer gave me his name and contact info.

            The drug problem is more well-known, but it gets the “boys will be boys” treatment and people turn a blind eye. The marijuana is one thing, but don’t be surprised to see Oregon linked with steroids a few years from now. Personally, I do think there is lack of institutional control…worse, I think the institution fosters it with their largess + obsession with athletic greatness. If only they focused that energy on academics or something worthwhile…

          • Jack says:
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            Let’s just say Kenny Payne was hired as a reward for past services, not as a recruiting facilitator going forward, which he also was.

            If we’re talking pot, I do believe that’s one “everyone does it” drug running through all schools. PED’s are likely viral as well. But whether or not some schools police it well, police it poorly or turn a blind eye is another matter. Pot is so benign that it’s easy to miss and reaps no performance benefits. PED’s can’t be an “everyone does it” drug since it’s either a culture, a sub-culture or illicit in varying degrees across the landscape.

        • ThaDuckMouth says:
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          No, that’s not what I’m saying — it did sound like that. Other schools used Willy Lyles for his recruiting services; in addition there are lots of questionable things surrounding the use of recruiting services … period. The things you pointed out are correct, but the fact remains that the university did everything it was asked to do to comply with the investigation and didn’t attempt to cover any of it up. The penalties reflect as much and are fair based on the violations. What I don’t get is that it seems many people want to put these violations on par with what happened at USC or Ohio State. It’s just not there folks.

          What I see with a lot of these comments are conspiracy theory types who use terms like “I believe” or “I think” or “I bet” … nothing of fact, just pure speculation. And then there is a comment below “Then there’s the drug problem”. Are you kidding me? I could make an argument that there’s probably a drug problem at most if not all football programs. All anecdotal speculation that doesn’t add up to anything other than good conversation on a board like this one.

          I get it though .. when you’re winning and something comes up like this the instant reaction of people who don’t like the program is “your cheating”. I’m not condoning any of it, just simply saying that the penalties make sense for what the violations were. Yeah, Chip Kelly left … did he leave because of the investigation? Did he leave because he wanted to coach in the NFL? Did he leave because he wanted a new home? It’s all just speculation crap that only Chip Kelly himself knows the answer to.

          • oneoldbeav says:
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            Good to know that you don’t condone the examples of CHEATING which went on at UofO.

            Your statement that the “university did everything it was asked to do to comply with the investigation…” begs this question: Absent the investigation, how long would these examples of cheating have gone on? Of course, the answer to that one would, indeed, call for “speculation”.

          • angry angry says:
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            Oldbeav, he is rationalizing the punishment because he feels guilt and knows it doesn’t fit the crime. This is human nature. Of course they would have continued to cheat until they were caught.

            Cal was just as bad…they got off, so they’re likely still cheating. Keep an eye on Cal…

          • angry angry says:
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            A fair punishment would have started with vacating wins, since the players on the roster were obtained via funding a street agent for a list of b-athletes, some of whom were dead. Did you hear that? Lyles provided “recruiting services” that included players from years prior who were DEAD.

            It would have ended with 5+ scholarship reductions for a four year period, since they cheated for 4 years. Not a huge fan of bowl bans since it punishes newer players who weren’t involved.

            You guys got a love tap. But it’s fine, because you’ll never live it down in the (Oregon) court of public opinion. Nationally, sure. I mean, I thought very highly of Oregon and wrote about their Machiavellian approach many times. I still admire the aggressiveness and desire to win, and even understand the temptation to cheat, but once that becomes a fact it taints all accomplishment. That’s the risk, and they took it. Nationally, people will forget it about within a year and all will be semi-forgiven, but the residue will remain and keep building up, destroying NCAA football’s shaky foundation. What ticks me of is that this was an opportunity to strengthen that rotting foundation and the NCAA failed epically. It’s egg on their face even more than Oregon’s.

          • Jack says:
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            It wasn’t even that Lyles provided materials which were outdated. It was that with a little white-out and a new logo he provided the exact same material Nikegon paid for two years previous while Lyles worked for the service Nikegon paid at that time.

            And they accepted it… one cover-up later.

          • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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            Chip Kelley was directly involved, and gained the players that made his system go. James, for instance. The university tried to cover it up, doing the emergency requisition of actual paperwork recruitment from Lyles. The punishment does NOT fit that, and should have been much more.

            You fans can rationalize all you want, but that is the truth. Your big BCS run is all TAINTED, forever. So is your string of CW wins.

            The only thing to do now, if you want that top level stature you had, is to put together ANOTHER string of BCS appearances. Show you can do it with no cheating.

            So we will see.

          • orangejulius orangejulius says:
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            Laughable.

            You think the ‘hate’ is spawned by envy?

            Here’s an article, basically calling Chip a version of Pete Carroll without the national titles.

            http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf–chip-kelly-is-latest-successful-coach-to-skate-free-of-ncaa-harm-174023192.html

            ” it appears Kelly & Co. paid Lyles $25,000 to deliver running backs LaMichael James and Lache Seastrunk, then tried to cover it up. ”

            Yep, only the haters are noticing.

      • carltogr carltogr says:
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        blah blah blah

      • hellobeavers says:
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        I simply do not understand how Duck fans can be so blind. What you provided was a very high level summary that conveniently leaves out the details.

        Didn’t Chip Kelly claim he didn’t know who Willie Lyles was because he always called him Will?

        I still don’t believe Oregon is a clean program. I just doubt that all those sweater-tied-around-the-neck boosters will not continue to stretch the rules.

        I wonder if Ed Ray being part of the process had anything to do with the penalty handed down. It would also look bad for OSU if Oregon got hammered and then someone pointed out that our President was involved. I would hope that he removed himself from the investigation process as a potential conflict of interest.

        • orangejulius orangejulius says:
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          “Didn’t Chip Kelly claim he didn’t know who Willie Lyles was because he always called him Will?”

          It depends on what the meaning of the word is, is.

  • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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    My conspiracy theory: aside from being an Uncle Phil/ESPN thing, Lyle’s must be a Pandora’s Box that the NCAA didn’t want to open. Who do we know used his services other than Oregon? LSU and Texas are the two biggies that come to mind, as well as other SEC teams. Hand out strict sanctions to the PAC 12’s new darling, and then you set precedent and potentially expose these other real cash cows. I mean, after reading the findings report even the in-denial Duck ubber fans I know had an oh shit moment when they saw repeat violator amongst the many other charges. The NCAA does this 27 month investigation, finds all of these wrong doings, it’s night and day obvious Oregon according to the the bylaws should get whacked (paid Lyle’s to be a recruiter/booster actually there in the report, WTF) and then the good old boys on the infractions committee hand out sanctions softer then what Oregon was willing to self impose. It’s a joke. Almost as if the SEC/NCAA spent months messing with Oregon for playing their game, and has just fired a warning shot across their bow. Personally it took so long I was indifferent by the time the sanctions were released, and as a cynic they basically got what I figured they would. Too much big money at stake. The NCAA infractions committee gets to move onto the next keep justifying their jobs, and some attorney’s are getting ridiculously wealthy on the states dime. Microcosm of our society. Big business finds a way to keep the ball rolling and ensure the rich get richer,

    • Jack says:
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      It wasn’t Texas. They were one of the schools whose access was denied as a result of Lyles handling these kids. And many suspect that denial of access is what led to this investigation in the first place. LSU, Cal, Auburn and aTm have been mentioned. Tennessee has already completed their part of this.

      I think people don’t understand the nature of street agents. They don’t steer players per se. They just control access. Iowa St, UCONN, Nikegon, Nebraska, LSU and Clemson all want to evaluate and talk to a kid with the hopes of getting him signed. Imagine it’s hoops instead of football if you have to do so. The normal process is to contact his coaches and school admin to gauge interest. Usually the schools will say they’re interested, and they want the kid to contact them if it’s mutual. Coaches and school admin don’t have any real vested interest in the kids going to any one school over the other. We know some get paid to ensure the odds on some kids. But in general they just want their kids to go on to be successful.

      Now you add a “mentor” to the mix. It’s not like these kids aren’t ripe subjects for a cult of personality. Other kids in their sphere who aren’t (and some who are) blessed with their physical gifts join gangs. Some hold strong with acceptable cults like major religions. The “mentor” cult leader has a huge pool from which he picks his followers. He then separates them from their traditional support and convinces them that only he can provide them with proper guidance.

      Now all those schools above are calling. But the “mentor” doesn’t like the “fit” for his players at half the schools. So he doesn’t even bother allowing these schools any contact. Some “mentors” take payment for access. Some play the long con and wait for one or two of their players to go through college and get a pro payday. Then the “mentor” receives a cut by being a “manager” or just a hanger on. But the result is only those schools willing to play this game get to even talk to these players.

      So it’s not a “steer” in the traditional sense of, “You have A through Z schools to choose from, and I say you should go to B or M.”

      It’s more like the kid really has a choice of A through Z but doesn’t even know anyone besides B, M or V are calling because only those three were willing to play the “mentor’s” game.

      Nikegon knew they were playing the game. Everyone knows they knew they were playing the game. Proving it is another animal altogether.

      • pdxduck says:
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        Jack – this is a very good overview of “how it works” down in good ol’ Texas. The only thing missing is that Mack Brown and his staff are known for “rewarding” high school coaches with staff positions, camp counselor positions – basically for-pay opportunities only the coaches that benefit Mack get access to.

        Coaches who have this type of relationship with Mack and staff block access from other schools to their best players. That model has worked for UT for decades. Therefore, UO, OSU, other PAC schools – basically any school outside of Texas never had a chance to have a shot with the best kids.

        Therefore – right, wrong or indifferent – these “mentors” would allow our schools to at least have a discussion with a kid who wasn’t locked into UT. As kids like the Rodgers Bros., LaMichael James and others had success, Mack got more and more pissed that the good ones got away. I will never be able to prove it, but I think Mack’s frustration and anger at the Lyles’ of the world had a part in the leak that ended up being the Yahoo! investigation.

        • helmsley says:
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          At what point can the potential recruits and their families, given all the material that’s available on the internet, contact a school/member of the coaching staff/whoever else might be associated with a particular team and indicate interest?

          • Jack says:
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            PSA’s can contact any school at any time. While contact will change in the future, this is why street agents are so insidious.

            Look at the concentration of calls Kelly and Campell made to Lyles back when LMJ was being recruited. Schools could only initiate contact with him once per week. But the loophole is that the kid can initiate contact with any school whenever he wants. The usual route is to call a coach or school admin and leave a message to please call back at their leisure. These people are usually stable characters in the community and in the lives of all the students. So they are an exception to the “friends and family” rule about being a booster or agent (knowing the kid before HS is the general rule).

            Now you have street agents and runners. They see a kid once he gets to play in HS, and he approaches the kid selling his “mentorship.” He can supposedly guide the kid better than his parents (which may be true), his coaches, his teachers and his school admin. He’s a leech, but he Rasputin’s his way into the kid’s life. When college coaches call HS coaches and school admin to leave a message for a call back, they’re redirected to the leech. The leech gets a call and gets to decide whether or not the kid even gets the message… because the kid only gets to receive one call per week from any given school. If the leech is well paid by a school, that school may be the only one whose messages get through. It doesn’t even have to be intentional. Maybe the leech is altruistic and just thinks this school is really really cool because they just paid his room and board for a whole year.

            At least nobody thinks college coaches are smart enough to take advantage of that kind of situation.

        • Jack says:
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          Ummm… no.

          That’s not the way it works in Texas. I’m not sure where you get your info, but they lied to you. Sure, there are bad apples in any sample you’re going to take for anything anywhere. But coaching in Texas is a sacrosanct labor which pays very very well. In fact, if you ever bother to check, you’ll discover that coaches don’t have time to take pay from college coaches to steer players because they’re too busy recruiting junior high kids to “move” into their districts.

          Texas is a proving ground for football coaches. Nowhere else in the country do HS coaches get scrutinized like D1 coaches do on a game by game basis… over the whole of the state. Between Sunday social halls and Monday barber shop/diner visits coaches down there are under such scrutiny that not even the mostest bestest conspiracy of all time can hide them from what you speak of. When it comes to football (and little else), people know what happens in their towns. If you don’t win, you’re gone. If you do win on a regular basis, you move into the college or even pro ranks. Successful coaches would be taking pay cuts if they were to go to FCS schools. Camps are piddly things HS coaches in every state take part in. I’m not sure what you’re inferring there.

          Money means nothing in Texas football. Winning is where it’s at. You will never hear about UT buying players. They are the 4,987,273 pound gorilla. Paying for players is WAAAAAAYYYYYY beneath them.

          Note: I’m not saying they don’t pay their players. I’m just saying they don’t pay FOR them out of HS or make any promises of future payments. Remember, winning is everything. Produce first… be legend later.

          Now bring on your two or three analogies which you think paints your picture of corrupt HS coaches in Texas.

          • pdxduck says:
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            Ummm…back at you. You do know I complimented you, right?

            Okay, let’s try this differently. Unlike you, I have no idea how much coaches get paid in Texas. It wasn’t my main point. The main point is access to players.

            High school coaches have allegiances with colleges and coaches. It’s called relationship. It’s called privilege. It’s called the “good ol’ boy” network. In this case, it is an association with Mack Brown.

            Whether it is the Mater Dei pipeline to USC, the Cedar Park/Garland/DeSoto pipeline to UT, the DeSales/Shaker Heights/St. Ignacious pipeline to Ohio State – when there are star players in high school, the high school coaches have allegiances to certain college coaches they have longstanding relationships with.

            All I’m saying is that college coaches call into high schools wanting to learn about specific players. To no surprise, the high school coaches can provide or block access to any player. It’s kind of simple.

            I’m not sure why you need to argue this obvious point.

            So – right, wrong or indifferent – mentors have emerged to start the college recruiting process and help the student athlete get offers.

          • Jack says:
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            The point isn’t that relationships are formed. That’s an obvious result of any business. Coaches who have relationships with HS coaches have relationships with HS coaches.

            Duh?

            HS coaches don’t and can not restrict access to players. A secondary aspect of their jobs is to put players in the next level. If they restrict access to a five star player, their no star player who could get a scholarship somewhere is under-served. And that under-served PSA has a voice. If the coach is successful at developing HS players for the next level, he relies on ALL relationships in order to get his players there. If all these coaches ignored what they thought were second-tier or unfavorable schools for their five star, they immediately lose credibility with anyone they’re talking to in order to “shop” their no star players.

            You have a very very very narrow view of what HS coaches everywhere do for their players if you’re this cynical. All it takes is one Craig James, and that HS coach could be McKissick, Cichy, Bazemore, Ladouceur, Parseghian, Tighe, Woods… it doesn’t matter. They’re out.

            You seem to be only thinking of the cream and forgetting the curds, milk and whey. I can’t say this surprises me considering your schooling. Present a narrow view and receive a wide scope.

            You’re welcome.

      • Ionebeaver Ionebeaver says:
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        This conversation really explains things for me, thanks Jack.

  • mckalk says:
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    I really think Chip Kelly leaving had a lot to do with the light penalties imposed. What I don’t think Duck fans realize is that Chip Kelly leaving WAS the penalty and it will be a slow death that manifests over time.

    Duck fan is arrogant enough to believe in plug and play with head coaches, but Kelly was beyond special. He’s not going to be replaced. Ducks have a weak schedule this season, so there will be hype about the system working, but year two and three will show the effects of no Chipster.

    • orangejulius orangejulius says:
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      Plug & Play…UO vs OSU

      Duck fan believes anyone can coach in Eugene and have success.

      (Traditional/blue hair) Beav fan believes switching coaches would cause downward spiral.

      • Jack says:
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        That’s funny.

        Do we realize that Nikegon has only had three coaches since 1977 until now?

        Actually, that’s a little unfair.

        UO had two coaches during that period. Nikegon also had two. Bellotti bridged the gap.

        • Jack says:
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          OT… I was just cruising the Nikegon football wiki page, and I saw that their rivalry with UW was listed as “the Border War.” Has anyone out there ever heard this term in that capacity before? I’ve heard about the term between KU and Mizzou and between UNH and Maine hockey. But in all my years growing up, living, working, going to school… having to watch Duck games with in-laws for years… while living in Eugene… I have never ever heard this term for the UO/UW manufactured rivalry which seems to only have taken on any importance since about 1998.

          • Grape says:
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            It’s wiki, not always truthful. Also never heard of it in my life either.

          • Jack says:
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            I wonder who made it up. I don’t recognize the editor of that made up rivalry name, but I know it’s not verified since it’s not comprehensive across all the rivalry lists.

            So let’s come up with some better names.

            Shall we?

            The Bird Dog
            Quack and Drool Bowl
            The Irony Bowl
            The Holy Bore
            Lift the Seat Before You Drink from the Bowl

    • beavers4life says:
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      I agree in that Ucks will eventually be in the 7-5 to 9-3 in the next 2-3 years from this upcoming season. Every head coach has their own system. A lot of Uck fans believe that “If Stanford can switch coaches and keep continuity…so can we!!” type of attitude. In all reality though, Stanford is not the same since Harbough left for the NFL. They’re schemes are the same, but the mindset of the players changes. It’s like when a CEO steps down and sells company A to company B….there will be some tweaks here and there, but the overall appearance of the company will appear the same until company B decides they can make bigger changes once the mindset is in place that the employees of company A are now a part of the new company B.

      • ThaDuckMouth says:
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        Yeah because everyone knew who Chip Kelly was when he took over for Bellotti right? I don’t know why Duck fans would think they could keep continuity.

        • Jack says:
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          We knew Kelly wasn’t Gary Crowton.

          And now we know Helfrich isn’t good enough to take over play-calling under Kelly. But we do know he was good enough to call plays for three glorious years under Hawkins. And I’m sure he learned how to achieve greatness under Koetter.

          The point is nobody knows who he’ll be until the team is his 100%. That’s going to take a couple years.

  • beavers4life says:
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    Cliff Kirkpatrick from the Gazette Times is moving to Alabama to cover the Crimson Tide. So the Gazette Times will have a new writer for OSU Athletics.

    http://www.gazettetimes.com/blogs/cliff-kirkpatrick/my-final-blog-time-to-say-goodbye/article_a813b634-dde7-11e2-91d6-001a4bcf887a.html

    • angry angry says:
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      He’s such a horrible writer…surprised he got another job.

      • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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        I kindof feel bad for the guy. He kept writing all of these daily “countdown till I leave” type posts in the weeks leading up to his final day. Then he put out a final “it’s my last day” type of past for his final entry. It was almost like he was hoping Beaver fans would flood him with comments and well wishes. Instead he got around 1 or 2 comments that were basically “good luck dude” and that was about it.
        I would have left him a comment, but setting up an account on the Gazette times website is a pain in the ass, and I don’t patience for sites that require so many steps just to allow me to leave a comment. F that.

        • Jack says:
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          He’s going to get comments like a plague where he’s going.

          • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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            They will all start with “you dumb Yankee sumbitch” LOL.

      • angry angry says:
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        Yeah I stopped reading it when they limited my views. But even before that I’d read it and cringe the entire time and Cliff mistyped (or misspelled) spelling 101 type words and just had the most generic opinions about everything. He didn’t seem like a bad guy just a really bad writer, boring guy, and overall doofus.

      • mckalk says:
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        Can you imagine going from Riley to Saban on your beat? Good luck with that!

        • Jack says:
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          In this day one could just email it in. We live in a day when “news’ is just cut-n-paste wire news anyway. Why would he have to even move?

    • sandiegan says:
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      how’d he get another job? dude was a terrible writer. no one wants to live in alabama?

  • Jack says:
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    Question: Since football is on the decline, would it be prudent for OSU to spend gobs of money on Reser? Football still enjoys the top spot in American popularity. But the consensus is that it has peaked and will begin a slow decline into obscurity if it manages to survive at all. So it’s likely to be dominating for another decade, maybe two.

    It’s declining for different reasons. Concussions play one part. Intelligent and/or caring parents can’t, in good conscience, allow their kids to play.

    It also costs money to play the sport. This hits the sport on several levels. Schools are being defunded by states, and sports are an easy target for cuts. Youth football is a separate, annual cost burdening families. Pay to play means something different to the non-scholarship player these days.

    And it’s declining because the above factors lead to kids participating in other sports and growing up liking those other sports more than football. High school football participation is falling faster than any other sport as a percentage, save one. That one sport that is falling as much is wrestling.

    So is an investment in a stadium which will soon house a relic of a sport a prudent one? Or is it a solid investment since the sports who can overtake football in popularity may also use the facility?

    • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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      What’s the measurement for deciding football is on the decline, besides fewer kids playing it? The output on the field seems to be getting better.

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    I hope I never see the day where futbol replaces football in Reser.

    • Jack says:
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      Why? I think it’s more fun live than football is. The quality of competition is low right now. But that will also change over time.

      But then they would probably find a way to add fourteen TV time-outs per half, making it just another slow, boring game.

      I would prefer hurling. I love that sport.

      • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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        Soccer makes me hurl.

        • mckalk says:
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          Here is the werid thing about soccer, as a parent who always hated soccer, now that I have a 10 year old who plays it at the classic level, I appreciate the brevity of soccer matches. No timeouts, no walks, no five run rule. Get in, get out, get on with your day!

          • Jack says:
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            Like I said…

            Add four TV time-outs to each half because that’s what America does.

            The game is over.

            I think anyone who doesn’t like soccer and doesn’t google hurling to see what it is would be satisfied with Gaelic football. That seems to be a nice compromise between what people believe futbol is and what they think it should be.

            The Irish just have a way about doing sports right.

          • steveEbeaver says:
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            Just get rid of the offside rule which would open up the game and allow a player to come back in once subsituted for. It would never happen in the international game but you do those two things and it would become an American game.

  • angry angry says:
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    Aaron Hernandez is apparently a serial killer. Pretty weird story.

  • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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    “He looks like such a nice boy!”

  • carltogr carltogr says:
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    CWS highlights are up on the NCAA site….Beavs own 4 of the top 10, pretty good and all defensive.

    http://www.ncaa.com/sports/baseball/d1

    Can’t wait for baseball….

    • steveEbeaver says:
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      Conforto has two of the top 10 including #1. The best part is we get to see him for another year. And beyond in MLB.

      • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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        Has anyone else heard speculation that Wetzler may come back? Seems unlikely, but that would give us a killer staff next year.

        • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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          That would be awesome. I know Angry’s not a fan, but I dont think he had a poor outing all year. Whats not to like?

  • wannabeav says:
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    yes; I’ve heard that rumor too. Call it the Matt Boyd effect. If he returns I think you can
    pencil in another conference title (UO, UCLA, ASU, Stanford, UW all at HOME) and a return to Omaha.

  • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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    Over under on J Rod coming back? He was great this year, but needs work with the bat.

    • Bill says:
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      Baseball america’s signing database shows Rodriguez signed. A sizable loss due to the leadership he brought.

      Child, Schultz, and Wetzler remain the underclassmen who have not signed. I believe they have until Jul 12th to decide.

      Of the signees that were drafted,
      Morrision, Eden, Thompson remained unsigned. Morrison and Eden would have gone in the top 5 rounds had they not strongly indicated they wanted to go to college.

      • oneoldbeav says:
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        I think loosing JRod is huge. All season long I admired his arm and his manner of dealing with pitchers, but during the last game at Goss I came to realize what a “field general” he was/is.

        When Casey came out to argue the play where the KState runner tried to get Keyes at third, JRod immediately signaled for the infielders to gather AWAY from Casey and the ump. They responded without hesitation. I found this to be more than simply a sign of a well coached team and give JRod some credit.

  • osu2008 says:
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    Child is gone too. Wetzler and Schultz still undecided.

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      Not a huge loss with Child. Wetzler and Schultz coming back would mean another great chance to get to Omaha and win it. Unfinished business boys!

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    Gotta love ol Pat Casey. Thanks, Pat. You da man.

    And Riley seems to be re energized. Bring on football season!

  • SalemBeav says:
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    I just took a look at the football season tickets at Reeser and most of them came with an $1800 per seat donation. The same thing at Autzen had a higher ticket price, but was only $300 per seat donation. No wonder it is so hard to sell out at Reeser. I’m sure a lot of the guys on this site would have no trouble dropping 5K on 2 tickets, myself, I will settle for Comcast. You could certainly spend a lot less on Seahawk tickets.

    • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      Not sure where you got your information but you’re way off Salembeav.
      http://Www.beavertickets.com/season-tickets/seating-pricing/
      Season tickets can be had for $0 annual donation. $1800 per seat is the highest donation level. Reser is very affordable.

      • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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        They are more expensive at Reeser because they have to pay for the extra e.

    • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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      Yeah man you’re way off. My donation is only $200.00 and I’m 23rd row on the 30 yard line of the old side (low enough that everyone still stand for the whole game). My wife is still under 30 so we still don’t have to make a donation for her seat. They’re trying to make it affordable. Especially for younger alums.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      I don’t think its that bad…what’s worse to me is the 7 story “football operations building,”…

  • helmsley says:
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    I hope people don’t react to it – ignore it – the best revenge is winning. (but it is sick as is the whole edifice).

    Will there ever be a potential recruit who says/thinks – I don’t need all this evidence of greed – and goes elsewhere?

  • ObjCritic says:
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    OT – Light interview with Storm Woods. I enjoyed his perspectives on this year’s surprise players at fall camp – not really “surprises” (e.g. Cooks), maybe more “breakout” players he sees on both sides of the ball (Larry Scott?!?):

    http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2013/07/oregon_state_offseason_qa_stor.html#incart_river

  • ObjCritic says:
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    CFN previews the 2013 Beavers:

    http://cfn.scout.com/2/1304135.html

    • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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      Nice write up, but kind of an odd prediction about win-loss for the season. The author thinks they should go 7-0 at the start, but then only win one of their last 5 games??

      • ObjCritic says:
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        They usually have something completely inaccurate or flaky and inconsistent in their write-ups…but, for lack of anything else to read about beaver football…

  • Perspective says:
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    I noticed that two of the JC DT’s were listed on the depth chart. Didn’t see Kyle Peko, and I haven’t heard anything about him lately. Is he still expected to play this fall?

    • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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      I think Riley said in an interview that all of JC guys completed their course requirements to get in. Hatau (sp?) and Delva were able to finish their transfer degrees and enroll for spring term to get in early, Peko wasn’t ready at that time so he officially won’t enroll until fall term therefore isn’t on the team/depth chart yet.

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    A year later than it was announced, the Pac-12 has released their Android app. If you have Comcast however, it doesnt work. I’ve had visions of being able to watch Pac-12 football from my smartphone while on the road, but Comcast has once again squashed my dreams. pretty much every other cable carrier is compatible with the app.

  • AfghanBeav AfghanBeav says:
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    Tyler Smith signs with the Mariners. That’s too bad.

    • AfghanBeav AfghanBeav says:
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      http://fb.me/OkI3FBFD

    • Bill says:
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      Uh….he was a senior so he was leaving anyways. He only got 20k in signing bonus…I guess that’s good since he had zero leverage.

      But if you’re referring to the Mariners sucking, then yes, that’s too bad.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    @Coach_Riley
    Hope everyone is enjoying this beautiful day, it’s a great day to be a Beaver! Don’t forget it! #GoBeavs

    • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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      So was there a commitment today? Hard to know now that nobody is covering the team at any of the media outlets. Where’s Machado when you need her?

  • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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    Way OT, but ESPN just decided to do away with anonymity and force people to comment on articles through their facebook pages as of July 17th. Sucks. In the PAC 12 blog there’s actually been less of the conventional dummy trolls and an influx of funny, super sarcastic assholes that have started commenting daily. Miller and Gemmell even comment back and get involved almost like a Cheers type of scene. Now I’m sure it’ll all go away.

  • Jack says:
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    So now we know:
    http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/07/oregons-trashy-jab-at-oregon-state

    Nikgon makes it official. Never ever listen to fans of our younger sister school when they talk about “little brother” or “Washington is our main rival.”

    This makes it clear 100%.

    Nikegon is jealous of OSU for whatever reason (we’re smarter). And UW is NOT their main rival.

    Good to know. This doesn’t make me think any less or more highly of my successful fight to ward off toe jam… or Nikegon.

    • issaquahbeav says:
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      What’s surprising to me is the UO administration would stoop to this level. It’s one thing for a fan to bring in a sign to a stadium with a like-message, but getting the blessing from administrators to craft this picture on a garbage can is a bit surprising. At some point, you take the high road. Plus, since they’ve essentially owned us over the past 10 years, why even do it?

      That being said, I’ve not going to lose sleep over this.

      Changing subjects, what was the punishment, if any, for the whole car rental NCAA violation with Cliff Harris? Did they toss that administrator out of the job like they did with Gibson?

      • Jack says:
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        Why would any of us lose sleep over this? This is a complex seated deep in the consciousness of Nikegon fans… and now officially Nikegon itself. This tells us everything the losers have been saying for years. They speak of “little brother” even though they’re the younger sister school who can’t compete academically. They think it insults us when they think they can manufacture some fake rivalry against UW as some important historical rivalry.

        And they quote the 1949 snub as proof?

        Nikegon was UO back then, and they were PAYING UP THE BUTT for players. And everyone knew it. That’s why they were busted two years later for paying for players.

        And this was not a time in history when it was difficult to hide this garbage. I guess stupid is as stupid has done?

        Anyway… Nikegon ratted on UW, USC, UCLA and Cal (and by extension, SU) in 1958, and that’s what broke the conference into splinters. The payola shit didn’t do it. The UO fink-ness did it. And they only did it because they were caught doing the same shit a couple years earlier (to a greater extent) and didn’t like having their hands slapped.

        Let’s get this clear. The only reason Nikegon was allowed to become a part of the Pac-8, which became the Pac-10, which became the Pac12… was because OSU vouched for their rat asses and promised they would be good. The rest of the league DID NOT WANT NIKEGON to darken their doorsteps. They tried for years to get OSU to join their coalition and let stupid go the way of Idaho.

        And now we have to put up with their insecure bullshit about whatever?

        Apparently that’s never been true. It is now institutionally imprinted.

        Nikegon envies OSU and will do anything to destroy us.

        Bring it on junior.

    • Duckman says:
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      Your inability to recognize the UO-UW rivalry simply highlights how little you know about the Ducks. You are consistently wrong in every one of your UO assessments. Oregon will cruise through the PAC next year! Thanks for predicting 3 or 4 losses, that affirms our championship destiny. You are a fucking joke!

      • Duckman says:
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        The above post was directed at JACKass by the way!

        • Jack says:
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          Do we feel validated now?

          Don’t prove me right again. I dare you not to.

          • Jack says:
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            Yeah dumb shit. You can’t win this argument. In fact, your school put you behind the two ball on this one. You were done early.

      • Jack says:
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        “Thanks for predicting 3 or 4 losses, that affirms our championship destiny.”

        Anyone with a high school sophomore education want to handle this one? I would go for the seven year old and common sense, but there are fun errors in the sentence which make me wonder who the hell gets a college degree these days. So I might be begging a poor sample.

        • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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          I’m looking forward to the Duck fans jumping ship and turning on the team once the 3 or 4 losses happen. Should be entertaining!

  • Jack says:
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    I need depth here.

    Does anyone have depth?

  • Jack says:
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    Apparently it’s duckie’s time of the emotional month.

    Sorry duckiie.

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