Let’s hear arguments as to why Mitch is the best we can do to lead this elite baseball program. I don’t want to hear arguments about his salary. He’s not the right guy because he’s cheap. That is a horrible argument. Please don’t present it.
My stance is he’s a poor in-game manager, uninspiring personality, likes to play father figure yet he doesn’t seem authentic in doing it (it’s like he’s saying the right things but it falls flat), believes he’s a sports psychologist, and overthinks things. None of this changed this year due to his record. I saw all the same problems, only the team won more games in spite of them. Joe Maddon’s teams always had this trait, too. Good players can trump these problems, especially if they have good on the field leadership from the players and/or talent mismatches. The Cubs had both. The Beavs had a talent mismatch in most games.
I don’t want convoluted arguments how the Beavs don’t have talent, either. Not going to listen to any ad hominem arguments that attack me, either. What would be good arguments or evidence would be something like players themselves saying Mitch was a great leader, inspired them, made great in-game decisions, etc. Interviews or post-games with Mitch where he’s (a) awake and (b) inspiring and (c) explains seemingly poor decisions in ways that make sense, in retrospect, could be good, too. I’ve never seen anything like that, but maybe it’s out there.
I have near zero confidence in this guy. The team had a good record, but they never really looked good or inspired doing it. Contrarily, Auburn had a fire in their eyes last night. I knew they were going to win that game because they looked like a determined team with heart and fight, and so did their coach.
Perfect example. Painful to watch. Why is he constantly talking about love and hugs? Just…painful. We have a freaking woowoo hippy as HC.
I’m wondering about the sample size of your frame of view.
Just out of curiosity, how many games did you actually watch? I only ask because I seem to recall you saying you rarely watch. So I find it hard to imagine your scouring videos or print interviews for ‘quotes of inspiration from players.’ I mean, maybe you do but that seems less like someone who is a fan.
I only watched maybe 10 games *this year*. But I watched every game before this year and have seen plenty of Mitch. Large enough sample to see the patterns. Which brings up a chicken/egg situation – I mean, I stopped watching games because Mitch is uninspiring and makes poor decisions. I don’t scour, which is why I asked people to post clips, articles, etc. I’d rather watch a 3 win Jonathan Smith team than a 50 win Canham team, because Smith is authentically inspiring as a coach. He makes awful in-game decisions and likes to play dad, too, but it’s all authentic, and therefore it becomes inspiring (as a player). This is why I think Smith’s teams have over-performed their talent level and will continue to do so.
“I’d rather watch a 3 win Jonathan Smith team than a 50 win Canham team…”
That pretty much sums it up…lol
He hasn’t done anything to say he’s the wrong guy.
I’m still going with don’t crown him yet. But he’s improved each year. More positives than negatives so far in his tenure. The expectations stay the same, make the tourney every year. Next year will be quite a test.
But like I’ve said before, angry will never come around. The first date was that bad for him.
Yeah, you could be right. There are certain personality types I just loathe. Mitch happens to have one of them: the woo woo hippy. Next he’s going to start talking about turning bats and balls into bread and wine.
That interview is fascinating. Mitch keeps saying over and over “family, love, hugs” etc as if saying it makes it real. It reminds me of a desperate husband who keeps giving his wife more roses the more she realizes he’s not the right guy. Icky personality.
Take a look at this article.
https://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/2022/06/theres-more-to-oregon-states-garret-forrester-than-just-his-golden-hair-and-sweet-swing.html
If you open the article on your app from google you can get past the block.
As far as Mitch goes I agree with Bill… not in love with the guy but no hate either. Bottom-line in all college sports is about two things, recruiting good players into key positions and coaching that develops those players plus provides a game plan that is in harmony with your teams strengths. Not sure Mitch or Smith are really good at those things yet. In baseball you can have the best of all worlds for hitting and defense but if you don’t have the pitching talent and depth in the bullpen you just ain’t gonna be there at the end. Football has more leeway in that strength in one area can help cover the weakness in another area. But pitching strengthens the whole team or weakens the whole team.
I’ve seen progress since he joined the team as a 1st year college coach.
He’s young and has plenty more years/room for continued growth.
He recruits well and players/assistants seem to genuinely like being part of the team he runs.
Led a team with decent talent(couple early round draft picks, but then a drop off after that) to a Super regional elimination game after being eliminated in a regional the year before.(sign of progress)
Look at the talent Tennessee had and they finished in the same spot as a far less talented OSU yeam.
Is he the best coach out there in college baseball? No
Does he have room for growth? Yes
Is he the right fit for OSU baseball and keeping the trajectory of the program high? I think Yes.
100% agree NB. The fact that Angry thinks Mitch should be on PC’s level after 2+ years of being a college coach is hilarious!
Angry thinks Mitch should be on PC’s level after 2+ years of being a college coach is hilarious!
Show me where I said that, else you’ve resorted to making shit up and then tearing it down, also known as a strawman.
I say this having watched nearly every game during Mitch’s tenure at OSU. Have only missed a handful, mostly during his first year. There has been progress.
Unfortunately, I expect a drop off next year unless they find a way to replace some of the key guys they’re losing and/or some seniors test the draft but come back as super seniors(not even sure who would fit that description with covid years extending eligibility?)
Team will need to round out their batting order next year with a more productive bottom half and also need to replace some key top half producers. Also need at least 2 guys to show they’re ready for full time weekend starting pitching roles.
Lots of holes to fill going into next season.
Nice beaver always with the calm analysis. Seems spot on to me- I don’t think saying Mitch is pat casey level is right, not saying he’s anything close to bad. He seems to be taking steps which is great to see. Everything else we can analyze as a couple more years get under his belt. I think he is a B level coach in his short 3 years so far(2.5 more like it)
I do wonder if a top baseball program like the Beavs, could lure any decent to good talent via a transfer. We know mostly who is coming in or sticking around. Maybe Mitch can work the portal.
The cost is nice too. Even with bonuses I think he costs about 400k this year. Not going to find many instant plug and play upgrades for that cash.
“The Beavs had a talent mismatch in most games…”
Please provide data/source to back up this statement…lol
I don’t want convoluted arguments how the Beavs don’t have talent, either. Not going to listen to any ad hominem arguments that attack me, either.
Congrats, you’ve managed to do both, and threw a strawman in there for good measure.
I never said the Beavs didn’t have talent. I’m asking you to provide data/backup for your statement. Of which you obviously cannot…lol
Lol indeed.
Angry = The beavs have more talent than most opponents. I have no data to show this and I don’t want to listen to anyone who says otherwise. You can’t make this stuff up! Lol indeed
I knew there would be a few people obsessed to make this about me. It’s not about me. Look up recruiting in Google. Focus on the topic – the coach.
Look what Texas A&M did with a first year head coach and Yetskie who should be the Beavs coach, went from not even making the sec tournament to the world series!! Does anyone on this site think Canham could of done that???
Yeskie’s pitching staff was in the bottom half of the SEC…so easy on the Yeskie train.
Texas A and M also had a lot of good/great transfers that really impacted the turnaround (I think it was 8 transfers). Maybe you attribute that to a coach but OSU had a lot of returning talent so they weren’t going to go shopping for that many new guys.
Comments from Auburn’s coach, found on KerryEggers.com
‘“What Oregon State is doing is what we’ve tried to do in our seven years at Auburn,” he said. “By that I mean build a team that’s competitive like they are, that handles itself, that’s blue collar, and has an unbelievable fan base that fights for every pitch.
“I’ve been (coaching for awhile). This is Year 30, and this is about as impressive a situation. … I don’t go to a lot of postseason tournaments and make these kind of statements just to be a nice guy. This one has a little extra meaning, and it’s sincere.” ‘
Bottom line we outplayed Auburn. Baseball is a crazy game. We were just unlucky. So many hard hit balls to the wall or right at people. Several critical situations when a 50/50 call went against us. On the flip side they were extremely lucky. Hell they scored 4 runs on 3 hits last night. We are in great shape with Mitch. If your not a baseball guy and haven’t been in a college or minor league clubhouse it’s hard to understand the culture. He is doing it the right way for long term success. Making it to Omaha requires a little luck and we didn’t have it this weekend. Reload and repeat.
Here’s a thought…maybe angry’s the wrong guy!
I’m outta here…
Love Doug. Really the main reason to have a Paramount+ subscription is access to full State catalog, which was unavailable for a couple.decades.
I think Mitch has a lot of potential, but he may have taken this “Family” thing a little too far.
In my experience, trying to manage anything using the “Family” approach can be a dual edge sword.
Yes, it’s good to have each other’s back, support each other etc.
But it’s also a lot harder to tell a “Family” member that their not performing to expectations, or to pull them from the lineup because they’re screwing up or not hitting.
Sometimes the “Family” approach clouds the truth and prevents necessary corrections due to the emotions that are attached to everything.
Good comment. It also comes off as “fake” if you overdo it, just like sending a woman roses everyday comes off as fake (and pathetic). Mitch is so desperate to establish that culture that he keeps repeating himself thinking repetition makes it so.
I’m not a big fan of the “family thing”, but it’s a cliché in sports that coaches AND players can’t refrain from using. I guess blame Willie Stargell and those damn ’79 Pirates. Results are what matter, can Mitch keep getting them or not. I’m more concerned about Rueck at this point. Talk about someone who has overplayed the family trope! Seems like it’s starting to backfire on him.
Yeah I called Rueck’s top, too. People doubted that, too. Baseball is extremely unforgiving. We have to give Mitch a timeline. Say, 5 years. Can he hold things together over that period? Maybe because decline in all things is slow. Then we can go out to 10 years, and I have no doubt he won’t hold things together out that far. His flaws will be exposed and costly. So over the next 5 years I think we see a lot like the past 3 where he’s up one year, down the next, but going further out I think it’ll look like a disaster.
Angry – what are the traits you want to see in a coach? What’s most important? What’s least important? Who is your coach if you were starting a program? And why him?
My favorite manager of all time is Tony La Russa. Great mix of analytics and gut (i.e. historical anecdotal evidence) to analyze probability in a given situation. You need both of these. The stats/analytics matter, but you as a manager have seen thousands of games, and your instincts as to how a situation will likely play out also matters. La Russa was so refined in that regard. Great leadership, all business – firm yet not harsh. So, anyone that gets close to that. Casey was obviously much closer to that mold than Mitch. Yeskie was also closer to that mold than Mitch. So, given all this, you can see why the woo woo hippy shit drives me nuts. I also think Mitch’s approach makes it about Mitch rather than the team. Like, “look at me, I’m the enlightened woo woo hippy coach with love for my brothers.” These are players who want to win games; they don’t want or need a dad, and if they do, that’s up to them to get therapy. It’s a business.
Is that the same guy who had his pitcher walk someone with a 1-2 count? Just to have the next hitter hit a three run home run? Isn’t that the same guy who vehemently defended his decision. It’s one of the worst decisions a manager has ever made in MLB history.
Show me where MC has ever made a decision like that? I don’t care about his press conferences, that hasn’t nothing to do with who he is when the camera is off. Every single person who has ever worked with him have great things to say about him, players, coaches, opposing teams. That speaks louder than your feelings.
Jesus christ, dude.
Lol. Facts make angry sad
How about last season with a 3 run lead against the ducks and wouldn’t bring the closer in needing 4 outs and then when the game is tied and still needing 4 outs decides it’s ok to bring the closer into the game!! Genius frickin move.
https://nypost.com/2022/06/09/tony-la-russa-explains-move-to-walk-trea-turner-on-1-2-count/amp/
Everyone is going to make mistakes. He’s a first ballot HOF manager and the best of our era.
33 years of managing and he’s allowed to make mistakes but Mitch with three years of experience isn’t? And calling it just a mistake is telling, its literally one of the worst calls ever made. You know what bugs me, not the criticism but the inconsistency in the criticism. Why can’t people look at something subjectively and not let their personal bias get in the way.
Francona was also an excellent manager. Bochy. Bobby Cox. Those guys are all in the same class. Someone like Joe Maddon, completely over rated. Mitch is more toward the Maddon camp with all the tinkering and over-thinking.
I like Bob Melvin’s attitude and professionalism. The clock is ticking on if he can win the big one. Lots of post-season failures.
He’s solid.
Lots of experience, and post season failures = “solid.”
Head guy for 3 years (1 interrupted by pandemic), 2 post season appearances = ‘he sucks because I don’t like his approach’
So should we admire the process, or the results?
Can someone explain this to me. Somehow Oregon State is more talented than Auburn? None of the recruiting rankings show that.
2019 OSU #27, Aub #11,
2020 OSU #72, Aub #53
2021 OSU #24, Aub #26
Am I missing something? This shows that OSU overachieved which shows that they develop talent and speaks to how well this program is run.
Stop bringing facts and logic into the equation tango! This will make angry sad
Most apropos username on the site.
We are seeing progress. Every season Mitch’s team has shown improvement both in his game management and end of season record/result. Mitch had zero head coach experience prior so I believe we continue to see improvement. Letting him go and seeing him winning titles and COTY accolades 10 years from now would sting (if it happened of course). I do agree this team didn’t have the IT factor for heroic comebacks, etc like that 2017 and 2018 team did. But maybe what Mitch is lacking will come in time. We all knew and didn’t expect to pick up where Casey left off with no fall off when we got Mitch. If when we hired Mitch we were told 2nd year regionals, 3rd year supers….we’d all agree we would be okay with that. If we can match this season next year, i’d be happy because it looks like we will be losing a lot of production in both bats and pitching. Next year rebuilding year?
Recruiting really slipped the last year with Pat and until Canham took over. Big reason why Adley’s final year ended in a whimper cause they just weren’t that talented outside of him. Talent upgrade the last couple years has been noticeable even with some key injuries. Just missing a couple pieces to push them over the top. They’re in good hands with Mitch.
Actually, second look at the roster…
We’re for sure losing Reid, Verburg, Hjerpe, Boyd, Meckler, Melton, and Ferrer probably.
But since a lot of players are walk-ons, you might lose a lot of guys to graduation (not sure who is graduating) but Townsend, Mundt, Dukart, Gretler, Fuchs, Wheeler, Logan and Carpenter all are 4 years in. But if all goes well, we may bring back our whole infield, and 3/4 starting pitchers.
I would say next year is not a rebuilding year and we have a good chance to be better as every year we see a lot of guys step up.
If we get recruits to campus the next three years look like continuous upgrade/replacement instead of rebuild. There’s some serious talents coming our way.
What’s crazy is a guy like Boyd is a 3rd year Sophomore. So he’s draft eligible…..or he could play 2 more years.
Chances are high he’ll get drafted, but with a smaller minor league, does that affect where he goes and is the bonus enough to pull him away?
Could he help his draft stock by coming back?
Meckler is another guy who I think could potentially come back based on Covid eligibility and draft status. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out
Man if Meckler, Boyd and Ferrer come back this team is going to be something next year. If that is the case we might see quite a few transfers from guys with starting experience. The talent coming in is considerable.
A) Awake. I wouldn’t mind seeing more passion/emotion from Mitch in the game. That said people who are generally internal forcing emotions is cringey as hell. I see a guy who knows who he is and does what he can with it. He is certainly very aware of everything happening in the game. He easily recalls all the details of a game in interviews. One thing is for sure, if you show low effort on a play you get pulled right away. He uses mistakes as teaching moments but if your mistake is not giving it your best you get benched. This happened multiple times this year. Best one to my memory was when Forrester loafed it on a high pop fly that the outfielder dropped and instead of being at second or third was sitting on first.
B) Not sure, I don’t listen to enough player interviews. Just from observation and Parker it seems to me hes better at teaching and supporting than firing people up. That is a strength of Darwin and Gipson though so maybe he recognizes the deficit and fills that hole with others. His approach seems to be more of a long term approach to develop players and keep them in a solid place. I think it was Vandy’s coach who was talking about the importance of being a support to players in the college game since the transfer portal is so available. I have a feeling the old school isn’t going to last much longer when a kid can leave with no repercussions. Better for mental health of the sport overall anyways.
C) I have heard him talk about stuff from a nuts and bolts perspective and coach speak. I’ve been pretty impressed in interviews with MP and in game with P12.
He talks about the game and issues in this interview. He doesn’t throw individual players under the bus ever. Its always we statements. Idk exactly what you are looking for though.
https://247sports.com/college/oregon-state/Article/Oregon-State-Beavers-baseball-2022-postgame-press-conference-video-watch-Corvallis-Super-Regional-game-one-Auburn-Tigers-188658830/
“Let’s hear arguments as to why Mitch is the best we can do to lead this elite baseball program. “Question, is the “elite” reference sarcastic?
At the end of 2021, you said “The era of baseball dominance is clearly over, and people don’t want to fight for greatness. Instead they want to fight to preserve Mitch’s ego and pride and are using the “give him more time” trope to do so. This is bullish for tribalism, but it’s not what makes dominant baseball.”
At the start of 2022: “If the Beavs want to shed their reputation as a fading program, they need to go 4-0 this weekend, but given Gonzaga looks to be relatively tough once again, they probably trip up once. I’ll go with a 3-1 weekend as the Mitch factor comes into play.”
So I’m thinking its sarcastic? I suppose ‘dominance’ and ‘elite’ are different things, but if the rep is a ‘fading program,’ they clearly aren’t elite.
The problem I have with your arguments is you assign motive to people who disagree with you, somehow you know that they want – to “preserve Mitch’s ego and pride.” I have no interest in preserving Mitch’s ego and pride. I’m sure they are intact and will remain so after college championships and pro ball management.
My initial support for Canham is that he’s a former catcher from championship teams, and as a former championship catcher, should see the field and that should inform his approach to coaching and in-game management (which perspective should be buttressed and enriched with his other experiences since college baseball). And its not that he came from OSU – had he the same resume having come from another college baseball program, I would still be interested in his coaching potential for those reasons.
My concern for Canham is that what we saw this year may be his best. I do think a Casey led team would have had more intensity, been more detail oriented, fewer lapses in concentration leading to errors. I think a Casey led team might have won the PAC regular season, would likely have won this series and be on to the CWS, but I doubt they would have won the CWS.
So I do agree with the criticism of his in-game management.
RE: the whole “family” thing, I wonder if that is something that is spreading across OSU sports from Rueck > Barnes then to Smith and Canham? A recent OSU football recruit talked about how on his visit the Smith staff really emphasized “family.” Is this being institutionalized? Why aren’t Rueck and Canham at least talking about “Championship Culture?” They’re the programs with the only reasonable, semi-frequent shots at PAC championships at least (perhaps Men’s soccer adn Women’s gymanistics will retain momentum and performance? Not that I’m ever going to soccer). What is wrong with wanting to be a great sports team, as opposed to a family? I know they’re not mutually exclusive goals, but isn’t the point of playing a game to win?
Which brings me around to the AD. As long as he’s here, Mitch stays. Then a new one is going to be unlikely to move Canham. I think Canham is here for several years at least until something else interests him.
“We have a freaking woowoo hippy as HC.”
This one cracked me up.
WSN – Thanks for all the great info and context throughout this season, I enjoyed your posts. You were really dedicated to getting additional information out to everyone here.
2 months to fall football camp?
Obj – The family thing seems to be growing in all of college sports. Between the transfer portal and various social pressures the hard ass coach is out the door these days.
Interesting perspective. But if everyone is going to be selling family, will “we want to be a winning program and want and will build winners” come back around so that programs can differentiate themselves from the 100+ other families out there?
Having played on teams myself the family aspect is very important especially in Baseball. Being family doesn’t mean you don’t hold people accountable, in fact I think it breeds more accountability. A prime example was Tennessee and Gilbert this year. He was playing for himself and not the team. It ended up costing them a CWS berth. Team Chemistry is how you overcome a talent gap.
I live in Tennessee and your assessment of Gilbert and Tennessee is wrong, they are Family, us against the world, they are just assholes. It didn’t cost them the CWS, Notre Dame was up 8-1 in game one and won game 3 with timely homeruns.
Him arguing with the ump cost them game one the most important game. That’s a selfish move not a family or team move. I’d argue that him having two additional at bats would have made a difference. Besides he wouldn’t have had to sit out game two, although they won. That being said he struggled in game three, perhaps he wouldn’t have if he didn’t sit out.
I should add in game one his replacement struck out right after TN hit a home run. There was only one out. Sorry that was a big momentum shift.
Yeah that swing will happen. You already see it where there’s teams at the other extreme like TN. Win first and fuck you is pretty much their style. Then you will get some that pull back to the bussiness of killing other teams without the cocky bs. The pendulum swings and life progresses.
Thanks. I’m gonna sit this discussion out. Too many irrational arguments and well the season just ended yesterday. The disappointment is still too fresh. Maybe after a couple more days. The end of baseball season is always a tough pill to swallow. But for all but one team the end of the ride is always disappointing.
I thought Bill had a pretty good take up above.
Enjoy your summer everyone. Peace, bitches.
The “family thing” may, indeed, be spreading throughout NCAA sports. But, it is very sincere from Mitch; just look at his personal history. The loss of his mother and brother (during Mitch’s time on the team) give him this central focus. As pointed out by Older Beav above, Sometimes the “Family” approach clouds the truth and prevents necessary corrections…
There are several examples of a lack of “necessary corrections”. Within the last few weeks the communication of middle infielders was recognized as a problem and yet it occurred again this week……involving the same two players and with no (apparent) consequences. Hard to imagine Casey allowing that.
The degree to which we saw Casey manage by fear while keeping the family thing in the clubhouse may not be in Mitch’s DNA. That he may never be a Pat Casey doesn’t mean he isn’t the right guy for the job; only that Casey is (nearly) one of a kind.
Too soon to say he’s NOT the right guy.
I was around for the hippy era and have no idea what a “woowoo hippy” is………but that’s a me problem.
The “family” thing goes back to Riley. McKalk brings up a good point, Willie Stargell…lol. That’s Riley’s era, so it was probably influential.
Bring back those Stargell Stars!
Angry – this isn’t a dig but the modern college game may have passed you by. It’s going to happen to everyone at some point. The era of the players coach is in full swing. Mitch is a archetype of the coaches you’ll see today and who players want to play for. The all business era of larussa and Casey is gone. Players these days want a relationship with their coach. This is true across all sports. Casey unsurprisingly said he didn’t become friends with players until after they left.
Mitch preaches family, it may come off as fake sounding or insincere in the interviews but I will tell you, he means it and follows through. I went to all three games this week, the pregame is where you’ll see the identity of the team. They were loose, focused and they gave off the strong family vibe. The pregame team rituals is where you knew what Mitch said about family was true. Something you can only see in person.
I think you should leave your grade in Mitch as incomplete until you are able to see a couple games in person. You’ll get a fuller picture of Mitch as a coach.
Ah, maybe. I don’t enjoy watching that kind of baseball.
What are your thoughts on bat flips and choreographed celebrations for home runs and extra base hits?
I don’t mind it as much as the family/hippy/woo woo crap. Let’s say I’m a Beav player. Under no circumstance is Mitch my dad or in my family. He might be a friend or someone I talk to if I have a problem, or he might not be, but in no way is he ever family. It’s a farce. Flipping a bat is individualism and somewhat unrelated to my issue with Mitch and the woo woo crap.
I checked and couldn’t find any interviews or write ups of Players calling Mitch Daddy or Father.
He’s a role model that isn’t afraid to be involved with their lives. I know many coaches who do the same. Most kids work harder and sacrifice more under that kind of positive relationship. There is definitely the athletes out there that succeed under a strong/intimidating presence with more regiment though. It’s up to Mitch to find the kids that prefer his style. The most important thing about Mitches approach is being honest. You can tell a kid they are cut or should transfer without bad blood developing. You can be a positive influence in their lives even if they aren’t winners for you.
The coach I work with the most has 17 state championships and 20+ national champions in 22 years. He started when the school started so he built it from scratch. His approach has always been love and compassion first, working hard for each other second and winning third. That said there was some notable super stars that absolutely hated it and transferred or competed unattached.
At the professional level I think it’s pretty lame. At some point it’s business and the players are adults. I don’t really consider college kids full adults though. Many people develop a huge amount of who they are in that 4 years (or 12 or whatever for some). If a family atmosphere and coaches who care about them yields good results on the field and off I’m all for it.
So before the game, all the players lineup on the foul line as if they were doing a post game victory line but instead of high fives, they give each other a hug. So every player hugs each other pregame. Certainly not something that teams of the past would ever do. That could fall into your family/hippy/ woo woo category.
Hopefully no inappropriate touching…
Where would Pat Casey be without Bryan Steed and Carson Shaddy…. You get your team in the tournament and hope for some breaks. Mitch and staff earned a national 3 seed. We played well enough this weekend to advance but had some bad luck. He’s the guy…. Great year let’s hope he can rebuild quickly.
I’ve always said what made Casey great was being in the mix dam near every year. You got to get some rolls, some bounces, some breaks and a few of those strike calls on the corner of the zone to win it all. But good programs are there every year in the regionals and supers. You put yourself in the mix every year and there is a good chance you will catch some breaks and win one eventually. Baseball is too flukey of a sport to ever expect the best team to win it every year.
I’ll continue to be critical of the decision to pitch to Dichiara, leads the country in walks for a reason. But overall a sign of a GOOD coach/team is winning the games you are suppose to win (aka the games you have more talent). Baseball is different than Football, Basketball and other sports because the pitchers can have good/bad games and directly impact the outcome of a game. You are always going to have some of those games, but good teams minimize them.
As for this season Oregon State was great against the teams they were suppose to beat, 34-6 against teams in Warren Nolan RPI Quadrant 2-4, but only 14-12 against Quadrant 1 teams. So against teams not name Oregon, and Gonzaga they were 6-11 and that’s where the disappointment comes from.
Coaching is often the difference in these games and this is where you can separate the Elite from the Good. Mitch/OSU was good this year and had opportunities to be considered elite. We’ve experienced Elite, so settling for Good is hard.
I wasn’t a fan of the lineup with 4 lefties in a row in game 3 either. I think every manager is going to have decisions you question. I mean the best hitters are lucky to hit .400. Managers aren’t batting 1.000 either. Casey had some decisions I think everyone questioned. Angry back in the day was quite hard on Casey IIRC. Good managers admit when they screwed up and learn from it IMO.
I also think the schedule gave everyone an over inflated expectation of this team, If the Pac 12 schedule was more evenly divide instead of back loaded I think this team would have been more likely rated top 10-15 vs top 2-3.
Also spot on, and why early on I didn’t really believe.
The beavs had the #6 non-conference SOS…so the schedule wasn’t backloaded bro.
https://www.warrennolan.com/baseball/2022/rpi-live
Their first real series was Stanford nearly two months into the season.
Angry’s right about Stanford. Also, talk about back loaded, gotta think the post season opponents pushed that non-con SOS.
It did feel like they were more of a Top 10 team than a Top 5 team with the eyeball test.
This is said spot on. Great job.
Dichiara was hitting .400, have to walk him.
I loved watching our pitchers take him out. That said it’s a silly decision. I asked Bill if we should even pitch to him and he said no. 4 runs on 2 hits says it all.
It was 3 hits, and 2bb, but that is a lot of runs for hardly anyone getting on base. Definitely some luck in that game. What is interesting is we struck out 14 times, and they only stuck out 5 times. I don’t remember every detail and if that ultimately mattered, but Casey hated the SO and would emphasis contact. In a sense you create your own luck by making contact.
Common complaint across the beaver scape this season. Too many strike outs. I don’t have a resource for looking Vs swinging but just guessing SOL was up this year from average. Part of that probably accounts for how many walks we had though. Our bats were just not high quality this year. We had 2 great hitters and 3 good hitters. Then a bunch off good to crap hitters depending on their current streak.
I’m still good with Mitch for time being. I think he made a lot of progress this year as far as calls go. Last year I seemed to have a “wtf why make that move” several times a series. Seemed like those moments were much farther in between this season. As I’ve said before, I wouldn’t mind seeing a little more fire/emotion from him during games. He looks like he needs a defibrillator at times and I think that the players need that energy. Its a fine line though as it can be too much and detrimental if it’s over the top or you’re getting ejected frequently but there needs to be some sign of life. That seemed to carry over to the players and several posts on here over the year getting excited when we saw a player show emotion and get fired up. Maybe it’s just my mentality, but the fact that it seems uncommon to see that fire that a comment is made when it happens is a little sad. I know we don’t get all angles via TV, but I did attend the games here in Surprise and some of the tourney in Scottsdale and it wasn’t something I ever really saw.
I think Mitch has his work cut out for him and it’s all his players now. As was mentioned in the prior thread, this lineup next year is looking really thin unless some young guys make some serious steps in the summer leagues. Bazanna and Forrester are the stars that are coming back (unless they xfer out) as I’d expect all 3 in the outfield to be gone. Logan could be back but honestly, he seems like a major downgrade at the catcher position for quite some time. He might’ve had a slightly better bat than Claunch but the last 2 months behind the plate he was like a sieve. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Smith get the nod next season. I’d love to see trosky as the everyday SS, not sure what dirt Dernedde has on Mitch but unfortunately I didn’t see anything that he did on either side that warranted keeping him in the lineup over Trosky. Hopefully Mitch has had conversations with Trosky cause if I’m him in the dugout seeing a guy 1 year older batting. 200 with the errors he had I’m wondering wth I’m doing in the dugout with a .290 avg and for sure no drop-off defensively. The outfield is definitely worrisome if replacing all 3. The young guys that filled in at times struggled quite a bit in limited looks and I definitely didn’t see anything that would replace the amount of offense those 3 guys provided. Anyway, IMO there are more question marks on this next lineup than at any time in recent memory…and in very key positions.
I think my biggest issue is pitching and I’m all for replacing Dorman. Been the tip of the spear on not being a Dorman believer and i gave him props when deserved for that month period where the staff was really strong but man, that appears to have been an anomaly. Hjepre was outstanding but even in an interview he did he credited an off-season pitching group in WA for helping to establish his slider. Now, perhaps Dorman was involved in all that, not sure but there wasn’t any mention of him at all which I guess I’d assume you’d at least give some credit to your pitching coach for gains you’ve made as a player but maybe not. Kmatz was great as a freshman. Brown was great. Ferrer was great. Hunter was solid. Pfennings injured early but he seems like the same pitcher now as in year 1. Carpenter was pretty bad outside a 3 week stint. Townsend was avg. Sebby seemed avg. Lattery didn’t seem to get much run time towards the end but maybe I’m not remembering correctly. Really, I think most people would agree that we had 2 reliable starters and 3 bullpen guys. I think Hunter was better than Pfennings but I think less reliable than Kmatz over the entire season. We also seemed to revert to last season woes as the year went on. Hit batters. Homers. Walks. Still good KO #s but that’s in part of a single season record by Hjerpe. Outside of kmatz, the other freshman that are now his guys got teed off on. Obviously they’re young and room for growth but some of those guys are going to need to be involved next year and early looks didn’t build much confidence.
TLDR; Mitch ok for another few years. Dorman still needs to go. Big drop in offense next year seems likely. Big pitching questions with who steps up and who comes back strong from injury. Bracing for down year with so many ? on this current roster.
Thoughtful analysis. I think Mitch improved year over year as a coach but there were some head scratchers including batting lineups stacked with lefties that made opponent pitching matchup decisions much easier. Appreciated the aggressive base running, plate discipline as they lead nation in walks, and really cut down on free passes although reverted a little against tough competition. Getting to Omaha is tough and they were right there. Only two National Seeds made it through to Omaha so lots of other elite programs must have below average coaches too by this logic. Jury is out, but he has shown me enough so far. And if Casey wanted him, then I can give him the benefit of the doubt.
Yes, I think they will need to continue that aggressive trend since the bulk of their power will be gone. They were already not a great power team (8th in hr I think) and the main contributors were Melton and Boyd. Forrester had 9 and I don’t think anyone else had more than 4 or 5. Really a lot of unknowns in the lineup and there wasn’t a lot to be excited about based on the results of some of the young guys in their limited time. Hard to not have high expectations for this team but as it sits today, think expectations should be greatly lowered for next year or 2.
Don’t forget about Frisch coming back from injury. I think Frisch and Kmatz are solid. Between Hunter and Pfennings for the last starter role. I could see Boyd possibly coming back after testing the waters which would be huge. Biggest help would be if turley decides to go the college route (doubtful as he’s a likely first rounder). Reed will grab an outfield spot no doubt. I like Trosky but ss will be up for grabs. As for catcher, plenty of options but I could see Logan taking the next step. Relievers: ferrer might be good enough to get drafted. Sebby graduates, Carp meh. A guy like Quinn i could see taking a step. Cope didn’t play this year but he has big power. Brown solid at closer. Forrester, Bazanna and if Boyd returns is an obvious top of the order. Outside of that bats will be a question. Pitching is paramount however and I think the staff has high hopes Frisch fills Hjerpes massive shoes. It’s in the air as of now but there’s a chance we could be better next year or at least as good maybe only slightly worse because we lose our big homer threat. Go beavs!
OT: UW depth players entering the glory hole:
“As for Bynum and Lolohea, both earned precious little action in their Husky careers. The 6-4, 280-pound Bynum arrived as a four-star recruit out of Wilsonville (Oregon) High School in 2018, but contributed just one tackle in four seasons and seven career games.
Lolohea (6-2, 265) actually signed with Washington in 2017, but a mission trip delayed his arrival until winter 2020. The three-star recruit from Salt Lake City East High School made nine tackles in 10 games last fall, after redshirting as a true freshman in 2020.”
Source: Seattle Times
Recruiting- check
Player evaluation- check
Player development- check
Culture- check
Winner- check
Game strategy- check
Coaching staff- check
Not perfect but improving. Rebuilt the team from ground up in last 3 years. Amazing what this team accomplished with weaknesses at SS and catcher. Pitching staff evolved from dumpster fire to dependable with clearly defined roles.
Anybody can nitpick various coaching decisions over the course of a game, series, or season and draw conclusions. So be it. I could make an argument that Pat Casey, Pat Riley, Phil Jackson, Coach K, Nick Saban, Tony La Russa, etc. are bad coaches because of some questionable game decisions they’ve made. The proof is in the pudding. Win consistently over a long period of time and those warts are overlooked. Most great coaches would admit they had little impact on their teams winning. The key to winning is 90% talent, 9% luck, 1% coaching. The HC’s job is to recruit, develop talent, define roles, accountability, preparation, hiring, culture, etc and most importantly get out of the way and don’t fuck it up especially if you have the talent. Mitch is checking the boxes and got the most out of this team. He’s the right guy IMO but of course time will tell.
Angry, did you play sports? Have you ever coached? Just curious. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but some have more credibility than others. Since you’ve only watched 15% of the games this year it would be good to understand why you are so adamant in your disapproval of Mitch. You must have an abundance of intelligence combined with relevant playing and coaching experience… or maybe you’re just arrogant and close minded.
Don’t forget to keep that sense of humor:-)
Go Beavs!
Great post BP. Those of us who played college sports understand much of what you said regarding coaching and that players determine the outcome of games. Never once did we blame the coach for one of our losses.
It’s honestly just a lazy take from angry. But that seems to be his MO lately…
@Turd. Most apropos username on the internet. Congrats.
I’m a little obsessed with you. Sorry.
Get me a sheep, please, or a cold shower.
Yeah I did play sports. Was excellent at baseball. Threw a no hitter – probably the best moment. Never coached, but would love to do it. Got an offer and passed because the timing wasn’t right, but I might do it if the opportunity arises again. Regarding Mitch, it’s that I watched all the games the prior years. Tuned in to see if he changed this year. He didn’t. So I tuned out. I’m not watching woo woo baseball. Baseball is the Gas House Gang, John McGraw, and Pat Casey. If you’re not playing intense baseball I’m not watching.
I’m a bit obsessed with you. I can’t quit you, angry.
I’d suggest coaching if the opportunity comes again. Extremely rewarding and humbling.
Next few days will be interesting. Will see who enters the transfer portal. Paul Myro is in today.
On the flip side, the beavs should have very good chances at landing top tier transfers.
Sucks to see Myro go. Heard over and over how hard of a worker he is and that hes a team first guy. Sucks that such a good dude just isn’t gifted with the talent to make the team.
I’m curious about the xfer portal as it doesn’t seem to be a focus point for this staff when compared to other top schools. We tend to go the JUCO route more than anything. Maybe I’m missing something but I don’t recall much portal activity. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see several more names enter the portal…think that’s unavoidable in this day and age. The Beavs should be aggressive this year with all the questions they have for next season.
DT who visits OSU in a couple weeks has OSU in his top 3, with ASU and UTSA.
Considering ASU is a dumpster fire lately and UTSA is G5, seems like the Beavs should be the leader on this one.
https://twitter.com/FiteCullen/status/1536886053864357889?t=gcQUkxZT1Z3RRVUv5FISMA&s=19
So he can play DT?!?
Yes, please!
NB, thoughts on Andre Piper canceling his Oregon visit in a few weeks? Looks like he’s still visiting AZ this weekend so possibly just down to OSU and AZ?
284 out of 300 teams didn’t make it as far as the Beavers this year. I think Mitch is doing pretty well with respect to the things he can control. And I’ve read some people here saying they think he’s peaked or this year was the best he can do. So even though he’s learned and improved every year, you think he’s done learning and can’t improve anymore? I highly doubt that.
I think you might be overreacting a tad. Steady progress over the Canham era says Omaha is the next step. Hats off to Butch Thompson making the next step. Omaha now twice in three years. The only thing I can point to that would’ve made a difference coaching wise would’ve been starting Kmatz instead of Pfennings game 1. Having watched the (previously aforementioned) auburn coach post series presser he said they struggled with our pitching games 2 and 3 due to the swing and miss stuff, offspeed, etc. The lapse of judgement was thinking our big power guy was going to intimate them somehow when in reality that’s what sec teams are used to seeing all year. I stuck around after the game awhile and it was cool to see guys like kmatz watching auburn celebrate on our home turf. Something tells me they will do everything in their power to not feel that again. Go beavs, a little optimism goes a long way my angry friend.
I’m not a Psychiatrist, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night. My diagnosis…..
Angry has “Daddy Issues with Mitch.” -)
I have been surprised with Canham’s stoic behavior in the dugout. He was supposed to be the “fiery leader” as a player, but always sounds like he overdosed on his antidepressant meds in interviews during games. He comes across boring and dull, which has shocked me. It was a dramatic contrast to the Auburn coach, who was very engaging and seemed pretty cool. I miss seeing PC visibility pissed off in the dugout.
The Good:
He has adapted to the college game, ie. playing some small ball.
Got to and almost won a Super in year three.
He was handed the keys to a Ferrari and has not run it into the ditch. The first season I saw their first two series in person and I was really sceptical. He was coaching like a MLB skipper. He has adapted.
There has been some good development of the existing roster.
He has had found and recruited some good players.
The Bad:
The team regressed late in the season, particularly on defense. Errors, walks, and the dreaded HBP all re-emerged.
Team does not seem to have the same grit as PC’s teams. Perhaps he can’t sit players for screwing up because he realizes the talent drop off is so large?
Dorman??? So much better this year, but then regression the last month.
I would give Mitch an A- for the season. After watching the team in person in Surprise, they were vastly improved from the previous years and seemed back to playing what we would all refer to as Beaver baseball. I liked the aggressive base running. They cobbled together a decent pitching staff. That seemed to be the real question coming out of Surprise. Too bad Washburn didn’t stick around!
Next year will be telling. Lose a lot and can he replenish the roster with some selective portal guys. That seems to be the new reality and can he adjust and use it to his advantage while we are still a elite brand name. Bummed we did not go to Omaha. This roster could not have won the whole thing. Simply not deep enough, but it would have been a blast to pack up the RV and drive down. Sucks the season ended. Go BEAVS!
Good post BG! I will say Dorman made some great decisions in the post season with the staff (something I was concerned about). Both he and Mitch made some BIG strides this year. The program is in good hands. There’s a reason Mitch was picked by Casey to take over.
Any thoughts on why we didn’t go with Kmatz in game 3? Think I would’ve went kmatz and Hunter vs pulling in the 4th reliever option. Perhaps needed for the next round 1st game but I think pfennings would’ve been ready for that 1st Omaha game.
Word is his arm is tired. He took a ton of work load this season for a frosh and he was losing command at the end of the season. Good rest and another year of conditioning and he will be just fine.
Yep…he had “dead arm.” Velo was way down in the regionals…
I have been surprised with Canham’s stoic behavior in the dugout. He was supposed to be the “fiery leader” as a player, but always sounds like he overdosed on his antidepressant meds in interviews during games. He comes across boring and dull, which has shocked me. It was a dramatic contrast to the Auburn coach, who was very engaging and seemed pretty cool. I miss seeing PC visibility pissed off in the dugout.
Exactly. What is his problem? Maybe instead of playing psychologist he should go see one, or drink some coffee. Sleepy Mitch.
Would like to see him throw the gatorade cooler on the field at least once
Or skip that and just instill some intensity in his players. Auburn had more intensity, more urgency, etc, and it’s no wonder they won. They wanted it more. That starts at the top. Casey was a genius with that.
‘Twas a joke.
I, personally, like the calm approach during games, then rub it in the opponents’ faces hard after a victory.
You already said you didn’t watch much… so how can you say he doesn’t instill intensity in the players? I’d argue that everyone saw plenty from Meckler, Bazzana, Melton, Boyd, Brown, Hjerpe…. Not every player is fiery, and in a sport like baseball that can be ok. Sometimes quiet confidence is every bit as intense as yelling and screaming, and often times I’d argue it’s more effective.
You also challenged me to play your little simulator and then never replied when I accepted challenge
See a lot of talk about the transfer portal with baseball, I think that will be a small or non-existent part of the off season for the beavs. Next year rosters have to compress to 35 players with 5 additional spots for seniors who lost time for covid.
We currently have 43 players now that Myro left.
We have 5 likely draft picks in Melton, Boyd, Ferrer, Melton and Hjerpe
We have 2 out of eligibility in Verburg and Sebby.
Some may try their luck in free agency or hang it up, Mundt, Pfennigs and Frisch are top of that list.
So best case for the best case for the Beavs we retain Mundt, Pfennigs, Frisch, Ferrer, Boyd and Meckler. That takes our roster down to 39. Worst case all those guys move on and we’re down to 33.
Welp we have 15 incoming frosh. Let’s say 2 go in the draft or never show up then our roster is at 46-52. We have 13 players that will qualify for the senior clause.
So we need to shed 6-12 players to get under the roster limit. We won’t be the only club in that position so I expect the transfer portal to be full of 1 and done seniors and less talented players who couldn’t make a roster. Combined with minor leagues likely contracting the number of teams or roster sizes there will be plenty of players hanging it up or heading over seas.
I think it’s likely that most or even all of McDowell, younger Dukart, Kasper, Hibbard, Thorsteinson, Lawson, 1 or 2 of the frosh pitchers that got shellacked at the beginning of the season, and maybe even Gretler or Fuchs will transfer before next year’s spring roster is finalized.
In non-baseball news, tinkle lands xfer from San Francisco. 6-9 forward has 1 year left. Avg 1.7 pts and 1.6 rebounds. Seems to be a pure stats machine. Lol. Men’s Basketball dominating the xfer portal. On the positive side, we do need bodies so I guess this is a step up from open campus try-outs.
He Averaged 9.4 points and 5.4 rebounds in 2020-2021. So he has the capability to be productive.
For San Francisco. Perhaps more to be excited about if it was P5 conference.
Dude didn’t even play one minute in their NCAA tournament game vs Murray State in March.
Tells me all I need to know.
Well it will certainly tell you why he transferred. Not every guy has to be all world. We need role players and guys who give us good looks in practice. The Beavs really suffered last year from inflated egos and hero ball. So having a guy come in that’s had a little success, but a bit of a fall from grace is not a terrible thing, assuming he has gained some humility and ready to work. The reality of Beaver basketball is who is leading. Our best years came when we had great senior leadership. So next season hinges on leadership of our returners and bringing back the unselfishness that guided us to the Elite Eight.
Maybe he comes in with a chip on his shoulder and something to prove?
Keep hope alive.
Sounds like a real difference maker!
If he can consistently get us into the playoffs on a yearly basis and have us in Omaha every now and again, He’s the right guy. Winning the CWS requires more than just talent and coaching. It requires fortune and moxie as well. Have to catch some breaks and overcome adversity regularly. College Baseball is ripe with parity so it’s hard to expect a team to even make it to Omaha on a regular basis. Only 2 teams from last year are in it this year and I would expect that next year it’s even less likely than this year that those 2 teams make it again. This year we were 2 runs away from Omaha.
One double away from going to CWS….
Or, a wind blown HR by the cookie guy?
LOL. Dandy Don had something to say about “ifs and buts”…. something to do with candy and nuts.
When that ball came of the bat I didn’t think it had a chance of going out. Such a high trajectory. Dude just crushed it though
I don’t have a definitive opinion on the topic at hand. Like others, I like the progress, but on the other hand, when you’re one game away from Omaha, and playing at home, you need to win that game.
We know, ultimately, what the metric is for truly answering Angry’s question. And it’s the baseline Casey set. This program needs to get to Omaha three times a decade and win it at least once a decade. Mitch has seven years to work with. The next year will be key, because if he doesn’t get to Omaha in 2023 the time frame is going to start squeezing him.
Being a season ticket holder for six years (where I see OOB with some regularity) and a regular at Surprise (ditto BeeG), and now Scottsdale, I think this team exceeded expectations, given the level of talent. (I’ve never understood the out-talented them trope this season because I think this year’s team had a program average (at best) level of talent. Again, let’s us known quantity for purposes of comparison: the 2017-18 squads. Those teams: had an infinitely better catcher, significantly better 2nd baseman, shortstop, 3rd baseman, and right fielder, and given the totality of play, the competition between Melton and Kwan is closer than you might think. Those squads also had MUCH better pitching: Heimlich, Femel, Abel plus Chamberlain and the other guys in the pen. On the current staff, only Hjerpe would have seen the mound a lot; maybe Brown.
Now, one could argue that the drop off in talent is itself a troubling sign, but then you have to factor the Bailey interregnum and Covid. But to revert to the 17-18 squads for a bit: except for the deux ex machina foul bowl dropping in between 3 Arkansas fielders, Casey would have taken the most talented teams in program history to Omaha and returned without a title. As oft remarked above, you need the breaks. In Omaha and the rounds before it. Like the UNC second baseman’s errant throw in 06. That doesn’t happen Beavs don’t win that year either.
Spot on brother!!!
Mitch should have gone for it on fourth down a couple times dammit!
But Casey got there and had a chance, I predict that unless he makes a change at pitching coach they will never reach that level.
Maybe he can hire Yeskie
Arkansas and UNC’s errors from 2006 and 2018 have been mentioned. One thing that has been glossed over from the 2007 Charlottesville regional? The rain outs that allowed the Beavs to gain some extra rest to a taxed pitching staff.
As mentioned. Yes, some lucky bounces, breaks and even a Mother Nature sometimes throws you a bone.
https://osubeavers.com/news/2022/6/15/baseball-cooper-hjerpe-named-national-pitcher-of-the-year.aspx
Well deserved!!!
last post until fall,
Bottom line, Mitch will the be the coach for the foreseeable future. As it stands right now, next year will be a test but I expect a wild offseason so that could all change for the better.
This is the year where the COVID extra year will hit rosters hard for everyone. Roster limit is moving down to 35 combined with the transfer portal, a lot of guys will get squeezed out at the big schools. Will be the most competitive fall ball ever.
Here’s who’s definitely leaving via graduation, transfer or draft
Hjerpe
Melton
Meckler
Verberg
Sebby
Myro – Transfer portal
Boyd – 99% sure to drafted but he is on a cape cod roster so the door is open to come back
COVID Seniors – Guys who are eligible for another year if they choose,
Gretler
Fuchs
Jake Dukart
Pfennigs
Mundt
Logan
Carpenter
Townsend
Ferrer
True seniors
Bosivert
COVID Juniors – Draft eligible this year but unlikely to be picked
McDowell
Dernedde
Lattery
Frisch
True Juniors – not draft eligible in 2022
Kasper
Stuhr
Hibbard
Thorsteinson
Forrester
Lawson
Hunter
COVID Sophomores – third year guys with extra year available
Cope
Brown
Sophomores
Trosky
Guerra
Weber
Quinn
Reed
Kmatz
Bazzanna
Case
Grewe
Nelson
Larson
Smith
44 guys on the roster this year counting guys who were out the entire year with injuries.
To get to 35 is going to be tough with projected 15 incoming freshman.
44 guys – 7 guys leaving for sure = 37. Plus 15 incoming freshman gets the roster to 52 guys. Means 17 guys won’t make it.
Of the COVID seniors, I’d expect Gretler, Dukart, Logan, Fuchs to move on. They all graduated this year. Have to make way for the new guys. Pfennigs and Townsend graduated too but they would have big roles next year.
After that, a few more guys will transfer out but I wouldn’t expect any impact players to leave. Just guys who want a shot to play.
Canham can be very selective in the transfer portal as a blue blood program and go after guys who not just fill needs but are big upgrades at their positions especially pitching. I’d expect very few jc transfers.
I’ll make the assumption that all the commits will come to campus,
The lineup next year will experience a drop off but still be pretty good if the players show growth over the summer. Pitching won’t have a stud but will be pretty steady.
C – Smith/Weber
1B – Forrester
2B – Bazzanna
SS – Trosky
3B – Guerra
OF – Reed
OF – Turley
OF – Kasper/incoming freshman
DH – Wheeler
Pitching – Starters
Kmatz
Pfennigs
Hunter
Frisch
Townsend
Bullpen
Ferrer
Brown
Mundt
Lattery
Thanks for putting this together. I have a couple tweaks. Firstly, I don’t think turley steps foot on campus (hopefully wrong but he’s gonna go high in the draft). Secondly I’d put Boyd’s chances to returning closer to 75%. He could greatly improve his stock next year. Thirdly, big expectations for Reed. Fourthly, Ferrer could get drafted but he should return. Finally, I think Frisch will do an admorable job to fill Hjerpes shoes. We forget how high the staff and national pundits are on him.
I’m curious as to why anyone thinks Meckler is gone. He’s projected as possibly a day 3 pick (rounds 11-20). He’s a great story, but honestly? I don’t see it. I would not waste a pick on him.
Boyd is protected to go on day 2. He’s probably gone. But it’s his decision. Does he feel coming back he could
Improve his draft stock and signing bonus? Hjerpe and Melton are the only two imo that are absolutely gone out of the current players.
I haven’t seen anything about Ben Ferrer’s chances of being drafted. Out of all the draft eligible pitchers that could stay or could return? He’s the one that would be missed the most.
I’ve seen enough though of some of the current group that leads me to believe some guys will be asked to look
elsewhere/move on.
However, as others have stated with the incoming players there’s not enough spots. It’s certainly going to be interesting to see how it all shakes out.
Mecklers numbers are great and he’s done it against plenty of good competition. He lacks a big league arm at this point but that isn’t impossible to develop. He’s proven he’s high character and will work to get where he wants to go. The MLB hates drafting seniors so if he is going to get his shot as a draft pick it’s likely this year or nothing unless he has an unbelievable season next year.
Coming into the season there was no way, his hitting and scrappy approach is undeniable though. He’s worth taking a shot in for a low round pick. Only 11 percent of 11-20 round picks ever make it to the show. So if a team picks 10 guys in the low rounds they are only expecting 1 to make it. Meckler is as good a pick as any other player in those rounds and if he wants his chance that’s the best one he will get. He can always go FA but there’s zero guarantees that way.
I’d like to see ferrer start, he was second best pitcher. If he doesn’t get drafted
Adley with his first major league HR
I’m going to see Rutschman play in Seattle on the 27th. Diamond club seats, 3 rows behind home plate…can’t freaking wait.
Hell yeah! Probably be more Adley fans than Mariners fans at that one… lol
Hope you remember the game ?
Since nobody has brought it up. Outside of Thor we don’t have any experienced lefty arms in the pen. That is a big problem that I’m sure the staff will address. Thor was serviceable but he’s not gonna win those lefty matchups. Nelson Keljo is our only lhp recruit that could come in right away and make a difference but you don’t know with freshman. The other lefty coming in is Tyler Mejia (no relation to Ian) but Keljo projects better as a starter. Hopefully we can grab a lefty outta the portal.
Yep…Dorman needs to find a few JC/Portal lefties for the pen.
This team with the National Pitcher of the Year and Pac-12 Player of the Year is as talented as the 2005-2007 & the 2013-2014 teams. 2017-2018 teams were special and I don’t think anyone is saying that this team is anywhere as talented as those teams or the expectation of Mitch is to keep the Talent level at 2017/2018 Peak. Angry has taken a lot of slack for his “out athleting” comment, I agree with it but would say it this way, Beat the teams you are suppose to Beat. I don’t think Angry meant that this team was so talented that it won games before showing up, but if OSU and the opponent plays close to there potential OSU would win 8/9 times out of 10. OSU did a great Job at winning the games they were suppose to win 34-6 against Quadrant 2-4 teams. I would argue that OSU had a clear talent advantage against all of those teams, if you disagree than who had more talent?
When Angry made the comment the team had only played Stanford, but expectations were building that this was a top 5 team in the country and after the sweep of the Dux there was talk of this being the best team in the country. With the way the rest of the season played out, Angry was right, once the talent gap closed, this team struggled against team with similar or better overall talent. Arizona 1-2, UCLA 2-3, Stanford 1-3, Vandy 1-1 and Auburn 1-2.
All that said, I think Mitch can be the guy. I view this season a lot like football, If I’m honest this team met or exceeded my initial expectations, but the “what ifs” will linger. Like in football what if we beat WSU, Cal and Colorado or now in baseball what if we didn’t pitch to Dichiara, then the season could have been special. I consider any trip to Omaha special. I think the leash on Mitch needs to be short because if we lose our status as a top 10 program, the chances of regaining that in the PNW are slim. Think about Clemson, wrong coach and there program is really struggling and they have more built in advantages than OSU.
Thanks for trying to understand my point instead of getting mad about it. You’re right. I thought Stanford was the first “real test” for the Beavs and said so at the time. In the post it says, “Stanford should be a good series and the best test so far ” and in the comments it reads “Miiitch. Flop in his first real series of the year.” I’m sorry that people get offended I only have to watch a handful of games to analyze a team, but I can do that, and it saves me time. I can spend my weekends doing better things when I see the team doesn’t have the heart of a champion. If they were playing championship baseball or even showed signs of it being a possibility when I tuned in, then I’d watch every game. For me in my 40s now time is precious. I’m not going to waste it watching uninspired ball. Stanford onward is when the Beavs schedule picked up, and that’s when I began watching more, and what I saw was an uninspired team showing up and hoping for a good outcome but not forcing one as great teams do. I admitted all along Mitch had an impressive record this year and did a good job on that front, but most of that was out-athleting teams early in the year. All of this is 100% correct, but people want to make it about me because it’s painful to admit the prodigal son could be seriously flawed. The biggest flaw is the mental aspect of the game. Lack of intensity, lack of heart, too much focus on woo woo, and the mental part of the game always comes from the top unless in rare cases where you have an amazing on the field general (e.g. David Ross when he was with the Cubs could trump Joe Maddon’s incompetence).
What is woo woo?
A Woo Woo is an alcoholic beverage made of vodka, peach schnapps, and cranberry juice. It is typically served as a cocktail in a highball glass or can be served as a shot. It can also be served in a rocks glass. The ingredients are usually shaken together with ice or stirred as preferred. Wikipedia
Woo-woo Definition & Meaning – Merriam-Webster
The meaning of WOO-WOO is dubiously or outlandishly mystical, supernatural, or unscientific.
I assume he’s calling Mitch out for not liking the taste of beer.
I think we have the new official drink of angry Beavs… The Woo Woo
Noun
woo woo (countable and uncountable, plural woo woos)
(slang, derogatory) A person readily accepting supernatural, paranormal, occult, or pseudoscientific phenomena, or emotion-based beliefs and explanations.
That Oregon State baseball coach is a bit of a woo woo.
Are you saying Mitch might be a woman? :-)
Some would describe Phil Jackson as a Woo Woo coach. He was pretty good right? I don’t think being spiritual and teaching more than just the game is a bad thing. I think it creates a bigger bond between teammates. When you are playing for more than just the game, you tend to elevate your play. Now I understand everyone’s style is different and you can have success with many styles. But just MC being spiritual has nothing to do with his coaching credentials. I saw everything in this team that you didn’t. I thought they fought real hard. I mean Auburn gut punched us the first inning of game 1. An uninspired team wouldn’t have put of 4 in the next half inning, to me that’s the marker of an inspired team.
I love how angry states his opinion as “fact.” So many holes to poke in this post..
This team was nowhere near the original Omaha teams. Those teams had multiple big leaguers and very very very deep pitching. The bottom of the order on those teams was way more productive than this years 6-9.
Have agree on that…
Ackrite,
Do you have any info/data to backup your stance that “OSU had a clear talent advantage against all of those teams?” Or is it just a gut feel?
They’ll never broach this subject. They will continue to claim that Auburn, Stanford, etc… were less talented than OSU. When everything I can find says the opposite. We overachieved with a weaker roster. I didn’t see too many people on here buying into the hype that we were a top 5 team. Again all the evidence points to good coaching / development. It will be interesting how good we can be when we have some elite talent in the bullpen and power hitting department.
Who do you want to debate? Maybe Arizona State? I can list the whole schedule if you like, but I don’t think saying Oregon State has more talent then teams that finished in Quadrants 2-4 is a confrontational. This team is Top Heavy and had huge holes at SS and 3B, but you have the Best Pitcher in the country, Player of the Year in the Pac-12, 2 freshman all Americans, 8 players make all conference, with a couple more honorable mentions..etc.
I don’t think I need to dig much deeper to say we are more talented than all the non P5 teams we played and the bottom 7 teams in the Pac 12. We dominated those teams.
As for the comparison I made to other CWS teams teams, the 2022 team OPS of .860 compares favorable to everyone but the 2017/18 teams, what this team didn’t have is that player that wouldn’t let them lose, Abel, Jorge Reyes, Jonah Nickerson, Joe Paterson, Barney, Mitch…etc. I feel like Hjerpe wanted to be that guy, but he had too much money to lose.
OK…so gut feel.
I’ll save myself from debate because I don’t think it will change anything. One one hand you say this team was as talented as several of our World Series teams, then on the other you say it wasn’t as talented as Stanford or Vanderbilt. That is a non starter for me because those two statements don’t line up.
That 2006 OSU team had 9 players drafted 4 of whom were pitchers. Not even close to a comparison. Plus doesn’t factor in the in between talent, that team had much more depth than this years OSU squad.
In reality we had one elite pitcher (Hjerpe) and one elite position player (Melton). If that is all it takes then what happened to Vandy, Tenn, etc… Its clear to me we overachieved but I won’t change you or Angry’s opinion on that matter.
Draft numbers were inflated in prior years when the draft lasted 50 round versus 20 round now. Example Jon Koller, who??, 11.2 IP ERA 8+
Looking at the Rosters more closely, 22 team had more high end talent than 2006 but wasn’t as deep and doesn’t have the players with the same moxie/heart or whatever you want to call it.
I’ll change my assessment and explain my opinion of 22 team this way. Mathematically average talent/production maybe similar other teams but other teams had a higher Median. I knew Dernedde awful at the plate, but he maybe the worse regular on any of the teams I mentioned. An OPS of .590, given the amount of AB he and Gretler had (.683 OPS) its crazy that the teams OPS was .860. The 2006 OPS was .831 but the Lowest regular (100+ ABs) in 06 had a OPS of .775.
So just to be clear, one stat is the be all end all of talent evaluation for an NCAA baseball team
2022 team DID NOT have more top end talent. You’re clearly not remembering as well as you think you are… 2006 PAC-10 player of the year; Cole Gillespie, we did not have pitcher of the year as that went to Lincecum. But we did have Nickerson (13 wins), Buck (13 wins), Stutes came on at the end of the year and was 8-2. Darwin Barney, Mike Lissman hit like .320, John Wallace .320, Tyler Graham .320, Bill Rowe hit like .340. Bullpen had Kunz, Turpen, Paterson.
3 very high end starters and a bullpen full of horses. Without looking it up id say the #8-9 hitters on that roster hit .270. 2022 team had multiple guys somehow hitting around .210. If I have one gripe on Canham it’s allowing a guy to stay a regular starter while hitting .206, but I’m not at practice so who am I to say there was a better option..
It’s completely unreasonable to say this years squad was better than 2006. If you want to change it to say this years squad has better top end talent, well maybe that’s an opinion but it isn’t a very informed one.
This team was absolutely not as talented as 2013 or 2014. Not in pitching anyway. (And one of those two teams got bounced in regionals, so maybe not even a good argument for you to make.)
We just didn’t have the pitching to compare to those teams.
This year, Hjerpe threw 103 innings. Kmatz, 77 and he was getting tired by the end. After that, Ferrer threw 62 and was very effective. That’s the go-to strength of this team’s pitching. Team batting average against: .246
Compare that to 2013, where Andrew Moore threw 131 innings, Matt Boyd 132. Wetzler, 96. All very, very effective, with Scott Shultz, Max Engelbrekt and a bunch of other really good arms coming out of the pen. Batting average against: .217.
Same in 2014, we had a bunch of future professionals who got tons of outs. .210 batting average against.
Ultimately, we just didn’t have enough pitching. We ended up using what should have been our midweek starter, Kmatz, as our Saturday night guy because of injuries. I’d like to think next year’s pitching is a bit of a return to form, like 2021’s .215 batting average against number. If not, maybe you can blame Dorman, but I think even that’s too early. A lot of the ‘dumb decisions’ we saw were an attempt to develop guys so they weren’t thrown into the fire without any experience.
Bottom line, we missed a guy like Salgado, we missed a healthy Pfennigs, Will Frisch. Next year, we’re bringing in a couple transfers I think could replace that production, so I think we’ll be okay.
Not sold on Pfennings. He honestly seems like the same pitcher now as day 1. Definitely not a Friday starter imo and I’d take Kmatz and Hunter ahead of him.
For the talent discussion we really need to define what we think talent is. Is it based on recruit ranking? How they fared as first time starters? How they are this season? All of them have flaws. A recruit ranking is sketchy cause they can easily be miss evaluated, still maturing or just flat missed. First time starter could just be nerves or adjustment. How they fared this year could just be good development by coaching staff.
One thing is certain. Our team is not talented based on recruit rankings if compared to the average regional team roster. That doesn’t mean a huge hill of beans considering Melton was not recruited at all, Forrester was only offered by us and Meck is a walk on that caught a comet.
So before we throw shit back and forth maybe we should define what talent is in the first place on this board.
I’d say a player that any other pac12 team or tournament team would objectively want on their roster is a good sign of talent.
Wouldn’t USC want our whole roster? I don’t feel that’s the right comparison. I’d say any players the top 25 best teams would take to improve their roster would be a better measure. From that comparison its pretty clear that OSU was lacking in the talent department.
100% NB. This is why Angry’s/Ackrite’s stance regarding the Beavs having more talent is just an OPINION. And the fact that Angry watched “maybe 10 games” all year tells you how much his opinion is worth.
If you go off of recruiting rankings, it’s a pretty good indicator that Mitch can develop players.
Just for fun, here are the avg recruiting rankings (Perfect Game) over the last 5 years for the top PAC12 teams:
#24 UCLA
#25 Arizona
#31 USC
#38 Stanford
#39 Oregon
#41 ASU (tie)
#41 OSU (tie)
Ok, how does that not validate my opinion?
So you give OSU more credit than I do for beating USC and Arizona State. The other teams are quadrant 1 teams and beside Oregon we struggled against them.
You can spend your time but safe bet that a majority of the quadrant 2-4 we beat were lower than 41.
That’s some out athleting numbers right there
“Define talent”
“Okay, players anyone would want”
“Okay. Here’s the recruiting rankings, and they prove no talent.”
Good one, guys.
Well, your definition makes pretty much any win by any P5 team talented. If any player UW would want is talented then that definition becomes kinda useless. That means every player in every P12 program and any regional program is talented. So we would be binning Hjerpe with a walk on at NM State.
It doesn’t mean that at all. “a player that any other pac12 team or tournament team would objectively want.” If the Beavs have players that other teams in the conference or teams in the tourney would take in a heartbeat, then those players are objectively talented. This is a good benchmark because it’s judgment by our peers. Way better than something like recruiting rankings.
Based off recruiting rankings, it’s clear that Miiiitch is good at developing talent.
its not cause we would have to somehow get polling from coaching staffs on all the players on the roster. Thats not actionable for a fan base or the discussion at all. There was mutiple teams that made the regionals based on their conference tourney auto bid that had losing records. Most of those teams would probably take 3/4 of the beavs roster.
So I’d say the players any team in the PAC or tourney would objectively want are:
Forrester
Boyd
Melton
Bazzana
Logan
Meckler
Maybe Dukart
Hjerpe
Ferrer
Lattery
Sebby
Hunter
Maybe Kmatz and Pfennings
Probably missing some…
So that’s 14 players. I doubt there are 14 players on other Pac teams or Tourney teams the Beavs would prefer to replace these guys. I saw a few. Hence talent mismatch in favor of the Beavs. I feel like this “no talent” argument is just setting up an excuse for Mitch next year. People above have planted that seed, which is a bizarre argument since recruiting talent is on Mitch. I can see what is going on. People just want to argue with me and heap love on Mitch because he’s a former player and their guy.
Those programs would prefer our players because OSU helped develop them into what they are today. How many of those 14 players would those programs choose out of high school? 3 or 4? I think Mitch has done a pretty decent job of continuing OSU’s track record of developing good high school talent into all-conference players.
The Beavs do get talented freshmen, but not nearly as talented as programs like Stanford, UCLA, Florida, Florida State, Virginia, North Carolina, Texas, Miami, Texas A&M, LSU, Arkansas, Mississippi State, Georgia, or Michigan, because high school ball in these states is on another level compared to Oregon and Washington. I don’t think most of those schools extract the potential out of their players like OSU does.
Now, part of what will determine Mitch’s success will be his ability to use the transfer portal to upgrade talent. I’ll reserve judgment until the season after next because COVID messed everything up with the roster. If he doesn’t use the transfer portal then I think there are better head coaching options.
Those programs would prefer our players because OSU helped develop them into what they are today. How many of those 14 players would those programs choose out of high school?
Ugh. I’m done. Such poor logic here ^, and it’s all about hamster-wheeling from this crowd. Time will be the great arbitrator and prove me correct, as always.
You are not always correct lol. What a DB illogical comment.
Your system of classification is completely based on your opinion. Just like your Mitch arguments. Its not like you are a bastion of logic and reason on this one. You don’t like him cause you don’t like him not because of what hes done with the program.
He has made in game management mistakes comparable to other coaches/managers. He recruits which you recognize. Players develop under him which you kind of recognize. I just put up a system that would help classify things and you only seemed to read the first part before you threw it out.
You are already implying that next year will be a failure. You did the same thing in 2019 and 2020 and we got better each year. Idk if you will stop predicting the demise of Mitch year after year or he will have a down year first but you are already invalidated and won’t admit it. He has exceeded your expectations, get over it.
Angry doesn’t know the difference between opinion and fact
Yeah, there’s no reasoning with angry. I provided a valid point and he just deflects. Literally an angry little boy
No, you hamster-wheeled.
GP II first Beaver to get a ring since……?
Also glad to see Eric Ely return to the women’s hoops program. Great dude.
Brent Barry with the spurs?
How many father and sons have both won a title?
Klay and Mychal Thompson off the top of my head.
GP II wins a ring with Golden St
That’s awesome!
I’ve never said this team had top 10 or even 25 talent, I said they beat the teams they were supposed to beat. RPI of 51+
I don’t think the 05-07, 13-14 team were overly talented, But extremely well coach and had fight\moxie which made them elite. I think with better coaching (don’t pitch to Dichiara) this team had enough talent to go to the CWS.
I think it was said at some point earlier is that the top 5 ranking happened based on early schedule. This is a top 25 team but not a top 10 team, much less a top 5. Had we faced some of the harder teams more spaced out, I’d think we’d have been more realistically ranked in that 15-20 range and making Supers would’ve felt more “appropriate”. Facing those harder schools towards the end allowed for us to maintain that inflated ranking.
Agree, I was the one who brought it up
https://www.yahoo.com/news/southern-miss-baseball-second-baseman-004038783.html
Any need for this guy?
Probably not. With 20 incoming players and the current roster we probably have someone that can match how hitting. The HR total wouldn’t be nearly as high in Goss.
Well that talent discussion went off the rails fast.
Here’s how I would define a talented player.
Recruiting: Any player in the top 100 or top 5 of their state at their position is definitely talented.
First Year Performance D1 (Batting): any player who records a slash above .275/.380/.400 is definitely talented.
First Year D1 (Pitching): over 10 IP with an ERA under 4.5, WHIP under 1.30 and a SO/freebie ratio over 2.
Development based talented: any player achieving the above slash/pitching in subsequent years has developed into a talent.
If we were to apply that to a roster we would probably get a good baseline for recruiting talent vs development based talent from coaches.
Considering the beavs 5-year average in recruiting is #41ish, it’s pretty clear the staff is good at developing talent.
Sure but recruiting rankings are murky and even more so in baseball. If recruiting rankings were actually accurate teams wouldn’t even need to play sports. Just average the last 5 years of recruiting rankings and crown the champion. You need some baseline of comparison. In recruiting rankings it’s experienced scouts and camp results applying a number to a child. Some kids mature faster/slower and some might just take a leap in technique that the scouts never see. Some kids never make it to a camp and scouts may never see others. Melton is a good example. He both matured more in junior college and was missed by scouts. His first year slash qualifying slash by the above standard was .440/.466/.697. Those numbers are outrageous so either credit goes to Andy Peterson and his staff or he’s a natural talent.
Right so if a player doesn’t go to a camp or the scout prefers certain measurables, they get a poor ranking and listed as not having talent. If there’s any credit to be given to Mitch it’s that he’s found some of these under the radar guys. I mean, good job there. I’m not sure it nulls being a terrible in-game manager or lacking in the mental prep department, but it’s some kind of offset that I’ll take.
Incorrect. You would jump to the first year D1 slash. I forgot to put 30 AB min on that, oops.
Well either way those are ridiculous and arbitrary numbers decided by you. Way more accurate (and easy and objective) to say if peers want your players they’re talented. Anyway, I’m done. Time will be the arbitrator.
It’s an example dude. Stop being such a dick. If you don’t like them propose different numbers. This is how people come to a common understanding as a group. People propose ideas and others propose counters.
Mine are based on the average of what mlb scouts consider “good”. One talking about players in college players and one about current mlb players. So yeah not arbitrary, you could ask where they came from.
No, it’s awful. Many elite talents would be considered untalented by your (arbitrary) standards.
Cool. Only your opinion of what a good player matters or you are taking a poll of all the peers you deem qualify somehow.
Good run angry beavs but it’s narcissist beav now. You can find me on other parts of the internet.
Lol. Triggered. Yeah, it makes a lot more sense to quantify talent based on peer review than some scout or numbers you make up. We know every team in the Pac and top 25 would take at least 10 players off that list I provided, and maybe all 14. There is no lack of talent.
This conflicts with what you wrote above. “Melton was not recruited at all, Forrester was only offered by us and Meck is a walk on that caught a comet.” So by your definition of them needing to be a top 100 or top 5 player, these guys aren’t talented? Or are you saying they can have any of those traits you listed? Either way, it’s your opinion, whereas being honest about players other teams would want is much more objective, and it doesn’t rely on the flawed ranking system. If every peer wants a player, he’s talented.
No, you have to apply all the categories. Melton and Forrestor are definitely talented based on their first year D1 slash. Meckler nearly qualified by the same standard.
It’s still going to be murky. Melton had 1 full year at OSU under Mitch before he has enough qualifying AB. Meckler had 2.
dony forget stef
and good call on Barry, the year before Gary Payton won one with the Heat.
If you’re referring to Steph Curry, his dad Dell never won a ring as a player. Maybe he did as a coach. Not sure.
Off the top of my head….as players
Brent and Rick Barry
GP and GP II
Klay and Mychael Thompson
There’s probably more and I’m too lazy to look it up. Nor did I stay at a holiday Inn express last night.
Tweet popped up in my feed:
https://twitter.com/SBNation/status/1537646445519675394?s=20&t=WlLKJViAYcGlTet0NLvH5A
Guokas
Barry
Walton
Thompson
Payton
Pretty short list, and both #GoBeavs is a cherry on top.
Ah, Yes. Forgot about Bill and Luke Walton. No idea who the Gookas are/were. Never heard of them.
Looks like the Gooki were 1947 & 1967, and not exactly household names, think most people would get a pass on that.
List of Beav nba champs via twitter. I’ve seen it listed Brent Barry has two titles though so not sure I trust this list:
9 Beavers have won NBA Championships, winning a total of 12 NBA Titles.
GP II, 2022
Eric Moreland, 2019
Gary Payton, 2006
Brent Barry, 2005
A.C. Green, 1987, 1988 & 2000
Lonnie Shelton, 1979
Dave Gambee, 1967
Mel Counts, 1965 & 1966
Red Rocha, 1955
Brent had 2005 & 2007 with the Spurs.
Matt Goukas? Decent bench player in the 60’s and 70’s. NBA commentator when the broadcasts were on NBC in the 90s.
I haven’t waded through the whole thread because it looks pretty miserable, but I don’t see any mention of the fact that tourney success in baseball is somewhat arbitrary. You’re talking about winning a handful of games against generally very talented teams with little margin for error. If you look at the team’s resume over the full season (which is a better sample size), their results were pretty impressive.
The #1 seed curse is well known. Does bowing out of the tourney earlier than expected mean those aren’t good teams or their coaches aren’t good? Or did they just happen to lose a few games when it mattered most?
Mitch’s only two “real” seasons have been successful by most measures, with postseason results improving year over year. Recruiting results are improving year over year. If you’re expecting us to be in the top 5 every season, that would make him a HOF-quality coach, which I don’t think anyone really expected. It’s OSU, a school with inherent disadvantages. The only advantage we had is Pat Casey, who we’re continuing to benefit from in the form of a quality coaching staff. Being consistently nationally relevant in any college sport year after year makes you successful. I think we’ve seen from the polls this year that Mitch has at least managed to sustain Casey’s legacy in that regard.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: it’s unreasonable to expect us to have another HOF coach. Ever. That being the case, I’ll take a guy who is an outstanding recruiter and has a pretty good track record on the scoreboard any day of the week. If we “underachieve” over a reasonable sample size time frame like five years, then I’ll reconsider him.
My interpretation of this is that you’re saying the solution is to lower our expectations.
That’s not how I interpreted Beav in OH’s post. But even Casey the HOF coach had off years and lost in the regionals when the team should have easily won. 2 years isn’t a large enough window to determine whether Cannan is the right coach or not. But given a regional and a super regional in his first 2 full years, I would say he is on the right track. For crying out loud, of the 16 national seeds only 4 advanced to the CWS and the #1 seed fell. I haven’t heard of any of those 12 top seeds that failed to make the CWS wanting to replace their coach. The only notable firing is Florida State because in 2 years he hadn’t lived up to his father’s legacy, and even his father never won a CWS despite being there many times.
That’s overly reductionist, but yeah, I’m a fan. It’s not my job to hold the coach’s feet to the fire. I don’t need to BIRG, I’m just in it for the narrative. All I ask is that they stay nationally relevant somehow, which they’ve managed.
What are your expectations? Let’s get them on record.
Semi Beav related, Andy Jenkins gets a new boss at UW…LSU pitching coach gets the gig to replace Meggs.
Angry you sound like the Duck fans who think they should win a “natty” every year.
You drew a line in the sand early on with Mitch and now you’re unwilling to change. You’ve been doing mental gymnastics so you don’t have to admit you’re wrong. It reminds me of the people in religious cults that can’t come to grips with the fact that they’ve been brainwashed no matter how many facts are thrown at them. You are essentially rooting against Mitch because you don’t like his coaching style and you don’t want to admit its been effective. A strange hill to die on.
As far as the family thing goes these KIDS are leaving their families and sometimes going far away from home. The parents want to know their kids are safe and have someone they truly care about and a lot of kids want that too. When you have a family feel you will play hard or fight for the guy next to you much like in the military where they consider themselves brothers for life. I don’t think Mitch is trying to be anyone’s daddy and more of a mentor/role model kind of thing. He wants them to feel comfortable coming to him if they have a problem on or off the field.
Where does he ever say he thinks he a sports psychologist? Just trying to make things up to help your argument like the woo woo hippie label? Stupid Mitch got the team within 1 game of the CWS we clearly need a new HC. SMH
I’m incredibly lazy with sheep. Lol
Texas a&m lost to Oklahoma 13-8
We Want Yeskie…errrrr
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/34101709/clemson-tigers-hire-michigan-erik-bakich-new-baseball-coach
850k /yr. Damn
Somehow, this thread has turned into something rather disappointing.
That’s kinda what happens when the blog owner is the biggest troll on said blog.
I kind of think a lot of this comes down to Angrys leadership preference. He likes the old school verbally abuse the players type coaches. Some people do need a good kick in the ass but honestly I think most people know they screwed up and have an internal desire not to screw up. I don’t think the ass kicking type coach is necessary really.
Disagree. People need someone to push them to help them reach their full potential. The trick is to do that while still helping them feel like every mistake isn’t the end of the world. Some people can take the stress, but people typically need to feel “loose” to perform well.
The movie Whiplash is a really interesting study in this.
Haven’t seen Whiplash but agree that some people, even elite athletes sometimes need a push. If they don’t personally need that push they at least need to know that the coach isn’t shy about communicating his high expectations when seeing a lapse on the part of their teammates. That’s not the same as a coach who will verbally abuse the players.
While Mitch hasn’t specifically said he wants to be a sports psychologist, I think Angry’s point is that Mitch takes a laid back, almost non-reactive approach. Early in his time at OSU it was said that he might wait a day or two to ask a player what he was thinking on a specific poor play. Sports psychologist seems as good a way as any to describe that approach.
Beyond the effect on players, consider the impact a vocal (WITHIN REASON) coach can have on umpires and even various committees. Did Mitch ever raise his voice in protesting a call? I’d like to see him stick up for the “family” a little more along the lines of Casey. Still think it’s way to early to say he’s NOT the right guy.
Thinking of in game decisions, looks like Texas left their starter in too long, seemed obvious about 8 pitches before they pulled him.
The wait approach is definitely not a form of sports psychology. Agree that some players need a kick in the ass but some need encouragement. Not all the players are all the same that doesn’t make them weak or less. Thats about the coach knowing there players talent and potential just as well as knowing how to support and encourage a player and give them confidence.
Understood that the wait approach isn’t part of sports psychology, we used to have a member here (Monkey Luven) who helped educate many here on the topic.
All I meant to say is that sports psychologist as opposed to emotional loud mouth was a closer way to describe Mitch’s approach. What would be a short and widely understood term for Mitch’s approach? Maybe patient/cerebral?
Anyway, it’s not all about being a loud mouth, the benching of Bazanna mid-season was the only Casey like move I can remember Mitch making this season; there were several other opportunities.
I’m in the sheep HOF. Lol
Are ewe kidding?
No, I don’t like verbally abusive coaches and that’s another cheap shot, but I do like coaches who stress fundamentals and get teams mentally prepared for the actual game they’re playing rather than dad/life lessons. What’s funny (and ironic) is you guys are being verbally abusive because you can’t handle some valid criticism of your HC. Post says not to make it about me, and 90% of the comments have made it about me.
Most of your comments are stated as “this is facts, prove me wrong”. Then when anyone states anything contradictory to your stats, you blow it off as less factual than anything you say. That’s probably how it turns to be about you.
Now as most people have said, Canham is doing a pretty damn good job. Remember when he was hired out of pro ball, the concern was can he recruit. Yes hes shown he can. Can he develop? Look and Meckler and Melton. That should be evidence he can. Can he win? I would say he’s proven he can. Even Casey didn’t win them all, and that’s a tough act to follow. If you don’t like the “family” message then don’t listen to it. Isn’t that what you tell people here? It’s impossible to judge from TV whether that message is missing the mark or not.
Bottom line, he’s doing a job that certainly his bosses are satisfied with and 98% of the fan base are satisfied with. If you aren’t, stop paying attention, which you basically said you did. But if the product is so uninspiring that you can’t watch, then you should probably admit you don’t have the viewpoint to correctly say where Canham is hitting and missing.
I’ll I know is that he’s a good looking dude.
Wow. What is this thread I’ve stumbled on. Some wild and insanely knee jerk takes about a guy who just completed his 2nd full season @ Oregon State. Saw one person talk about how “a Pat Casey led team makes it farther” um… yeah no shit. Just like how Travis Bazzana in a couple years PROBABLY doesn’t leave 8 men on base in a series defining game. Is it possible that Oregon State picked Mitch based on his potential for the role and not his current status? Like maybe that’s what the mariners org saw in him, what Barnes saw in him, what FREAKING PAT CASEY saw in him. And look. He’s in year 2 and we were 1 timely hit away from Omaha. Not good enough?
And about the family thing. Maybe it doesn’t sound super great to a bunch of midlife keyboard warriors. But Mitch is so far out recruiting Casey. In Casey’s last 10 seasons he signed 6 top 100 recruits, in 2 seasons Mitch has 4. So maybe “we’re a family” doesn’t do it for us. But what if we are not the ones who the message is for? Maybe it sounds really good to a 16,17,18 year old kid and their parents. Maybe it’s more important for the success of our team that the messaging resonates with them and not us. Just a thought
My god. Are we ever gonna stop complaining? Get a grip. This team has talent, this team will go to Omaha very soon. The kids and the coaching staff are making strides each year. And if you’re unable to see that, then idk what to tell ya.
Valid points… but what about the woo woo?
Well put.
Get out of here with your logic and reasoning
What if we outperformed our ability and the actual talent was overrated? No doubt Casey was amazing and might have done more with this team. However, past successes may have brought on unrealistic expexcations with the fans. Sure, it would have been nice to have gone further in the tournament. Had this been our football season, we would have been ecstatic with the results. I find sports to be inately disappointing since no team stays on top forever and results are routinely erratic. Any Beaver team that gets into the upper tier of the standings, in any sport, is a success for me. We are competing against better financed and larger fanbased teams.
Stanford getting smoked
Time to dump the Clarke and Elizabeth Nelson Director of Baseball?
I mean, outsmarted to the tune of 15 runs?
Or maybe the Pac-12 just wasn’t as good as we thought? I mean if that’s the best team from the Pac and they got smoked by the 3rd best team from the Sec?
I was thinking about this today and if you were to combine conferences I would rank them:
1 Tennessee
2 Ole Miss
3 Arkansas
4 Auburn
5 Stanford
6 TX&M
7 Oregon State
8 LSU
9 Arizona
10 Florida
11 Vandy
12 UCLA
13 Georgia
14 Oregon
15 Alabama
The rest
In conclusion the top half of our conference can compete but to take the next step the bottom half has to be way better. Too many easy weekends in the pac doesn’t breed well for postseason success. Either that or scheduling a harder non conference with bigger brands.
Mariners need a new tag line. This “rise with us” doesn’t resonate when you’re one of the bottom 5 teams in the league but i guess the thought process is that you can only go up from where they’ve been? Hurts to say as a lifelong fan but I think a more appropriate one is “at least we’re not the A’s”. Although as bad as they are, they’ll probably be more successful than the Seahawks this season.