17.May.2014 Yep, it was all about Money (As Always)

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Per Canzano

One final thought on the Ben Howland negotiation… I’m told my figures of Howland wanting $2 million annually plus $250,000 per assistant were exactly on the money. Oregon State just couldn’t fathom eating those numbers while also paying Craig Robinson to go away.

Looks like the dissenters and trolls were wrong again.

 

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  • rsteve503 says:
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    How is anybody wrong? Seemed like it was clear from the first that Howland, making 1.2 mil a year sitting on his ass, wasnt going to come cheap. BDC clearly had his head up his ass thinking we could afford Howland, and wasted time and effort. But that probably wasnt the first time for Bobby.

    • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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      its hoe he keeps his dome so shiny!

    • Mud&Sticks says:
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      Probably?? Probably? Imo there’s no probably about it. The outlook for OSU athletics is not good as long as bobby is running the show. jmo

    • angry says:
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      The trolls said it wasn’t about money. They said to give Bob D a break.

  • mark says:
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    Money, amiright guys?!? He should just offer Calipari $8 mil/yr and lock this thing up!

  • GoBeavs82 says:
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    In 2014, MBB only made $758K on 67,077 season attendance, or $11.30 per person-game. A new marketing campaign would need to sell an additional $50/game/person to a full GILL….

    • Jack says:
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      You suffer from a very very very narrow view of the world.
      http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/12/28/top-50-most-profitable-fbs-football-and-mens-basketball-programs/

      • rsteve503 says:
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        I didnt see OSU basketball on that list…… so what is your point?

        • HopefulBeav says:
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          …and referenced a list from 2010?

          • Jack says:
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            It’s supposed to lead one to an intuitive conclusion that you get more than what you pay for in college hoops. Source newer numbers if you like. You will find that it becomes more obscenely profitable to be a winner as each year passes.

        • Jack says:
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          Paying someone who would put you in the top ten every year pays off.

          Paid attendance is a drop in the bucket. If our AD thinks in only those terms, he not only lacks vision. He lacks a semi-decent head for business.

          Duke operates at standing room only capacity. That single game attendance at the CIA is the same as Gill’s listed capacity for a sell-out. Add another 600 to 1000 for standing room only. Duke pays their coach more than the price listed above, and they make more in profit than they pay him with the same old arena that is slightly smaller than Gill. They do charge more per ticket. But they also get people to pay that price… because they win. But it’s still not paid attendance that brings it all in. Merch sales might have a little to do with some of it.

          • mark says:
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            Paying someone to put you in the top 10 will pay off … after 20 yrs. Showing a list of the perennially and historically greatest programs in college basketball history and saying “SEE! They’re profitable! Do that!” shows a real depth of understanding.

            • Jack says:
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              You people have so little vision. It’s really disappointing that you’re even responding with this negative Nancy BS. We can remain a mid-major with mid-major hopes and expectations.
              http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/96625/dollars-and-sense-for-wichita-state

              Or we can play with the big boys. We were at one time and should be again the pre-eminent basketball power in the Pacific Northwest, vying for the tops in the West year in and year out. You can go ahead and tell me who the top five in the West are right now. And if you seriously think we can’t usurp all but UCLA and Zony immediately… and all but UCLA over time… then why do we even bother?

              We might as well have just stuck with Robinson and his .500 ball. If we’re going to settle for mediocre, we might as well do mediocre well.

              I don’t think our fans know how big a name OSU was 30 years ago. We were one of the blue bloods. I could sit in my living room in the Midwest and fully expect to see Ralph Miller coaching a game on network TV during a Saturday afternoon. We can easily be there once again if we just lose the loser attitude that we weren’t once and can never again be a blue blood. Not only would the country readily accept us as one. The story would be awesome as well… from prince to pauper… to prince once again.

              I hate Lynn Snyder.

              • Whiskey soaked napkins says:
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                I was never a fan of twisted sister either

              • mark says:
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                Oh, the irony of linking to that story on Wichita State. Two things stuck out to me: them talking about “once we balanced our budget” and Rovell noting that it’s a big question whether they will be able to afford their coach going further. Nobody is arguing that a winning program wouldn’t make more money, the argument is that Oregon State can’t afford (at this time) to pay what the best coaches in the country are paid. Never mind that they have to pay Robinson’s contract for the next couple years too. (Yeah, yeah, yeah .. BDC shouldn’t have given the extension. He did. No use talking about it now as it pertains to the next coaching hire.)

                So what I’m saying is that you can’t just pay a top coach (Izzo, Calipari) to come in and be profitable. I’m guessing it would take a decade at least to make that contract viable, all the meanwhile running big deficits. It makes more sense to take big shots with these other guys and hope to hit a home run to upgrade Gill, etc. and become the national power we all want.

                The thing that bugs me about this site and many of the commenters is that it often seems that it is negative no matter what. I think a site like this is valuable for many reasons. But the certainty with which angry and other commenters talk about potential coaches (in this particular case) is strange. Stoudamire would be horrible hire? From all reports he is a tireless, motivated worker and an excellent recruiter. Tinkle is a low-ceiling hire? Why? And, alternatively, Hopkins would be a home run? Maybe. I think each coach has lots of positives and certainly some negatives but there seems to be a lack of balance when considering each. I think that is a more productive conversation. But I suppose it’s easier to just call people like me Riley-lovers rather than realize I see a more complicated picture.

                • Jack says:
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                  Yes… you do not see the more complicated picture.

                  I linked that article because those are mid-major problems at a mid-major school. They think small. They will remain small into perpetuity. That’s the way it will always be for schools which do so. They don’t even bother with risk/reward analysis. They just balance the books and call it a day.

                  This is one of the biggest complaints I have about business and econ since the moron known as Milton Friedman stripped us all and made us a bunch of numbers. People are not numbers. Labor is dynamic, forceful and can exceed expectations. But if you just treat it like a number you will run it into the dirt time and again.

                  That is the more complicated picture. You either sit and suffer the life of a mediocre existence, or you strive for excellence in every endeavor.

                  One of them involves balancing the books at the turn of every page… a bean counter’s dream existence. This leads to half-finished jobs and programs in constant maintenance mode. This is a constantly whining excuse machine involving one missed opportunity after another.

                  The other involves leading people with a strong and certain mindset. The means might not always be apparent. But the methods are always sure. And the ends are almost always better than half-finished maintenance jobs.

                  If you would go back to the original argument. It would be specifically about John Calipari and his worth at $8m per… even at OSU. That hypothetical is easily supported even if it isn’t realistic. If Bobby D were to run the numbers he would also find that going out and buying Calipari for such a price would increase his profits and gain him a return on his investment. within two years if not sooner. There are really no other coaches who might do this for that price. But you can go down the list and find prices where you can get returns for other coaches. Howland has other issues, but $2m plus enough for assistants sounds reasonable. I would rate Musselman higher than Howland and get him for less… and come out ahead.

                  Yes, we do have to spend time and effort getting back to where we were. We won’t trade academic integrity for athletic hype like Nikegon has done. We can’t just buy our hype. They also cook the books to cover an academic subsidy larger than ours. But that’s another story. The point is that building and spending is another numbers game. But at least it benefits labor. Constantly balancing the books and constantly maintaining partially complete projects imprints itself on labor.

                  So it’s the people who need to be the variables for success. And they will never be so (Riley included) as long as OSU is stuck in a mediocre mindset of can’t do and don’t wanna try.

              • Kristick Whiffs Again says:
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                “The whole country will accept us as blue bloods” lol

                • Jack says:
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                  Without a shred of doubt they will… 200% guaranteed.

                  You will be so sick of the “sleeping giants awaken” story if it ever comes to fruition. The national media will eat it whole and spit it out at every turn. It’s not like there are any others in the West that East Coast fans like or love. Zony is solid, but they’re not really liked. UCLA lives in the past. Zags is the goofy cousin who leaves the party early every single year.

                  There just isn’t anyone out here. OSU, UW and Cal are the only other schools with a history of once-were-great. They all need to step it up.

                  • Jack says:
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                    I should have added Utah and USF. But USF has fallen into mid-major land. UNLV and SDSU fill that void at the moment. St Mary’s, BYU, NMU et al will step into the role in the future. It’s a mid-major cycle. Utah does get the chance to be big time again now that they are in a power conference. So they will also be a part of the once-were crowd.

                    Watch how the East Coast embraces Utah and glorifies their history. Even more so than Cal or UW, Utah is a model for what we can expect if we become viable again.

      • GoBeavs82 says:
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        Jack –

        You DON’T Know who i am, what i suffer from, nor the breadth of my views. You don’t know JACK.

        I predict how BDC see’s things, and created a model in light of how BDC views the world and what he can sell. It’s my prediction of HIS view of the world that i represent, not mine.

        • Jack says:
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          If only there was a way for you to convey such a message… hmmm. Why would I think something of you when you so convincingly set your argument in such detail before this post that I’m responding to?

          Maybe we need to set up a forum where we can freely use words which might communicate what we mean to say?

  • rsteve503 says:
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    One thing is pretty clear. The list of folks interested in the OSU job is HUGELY better than when CR was hired. There are REAL coaches expressing interest!

    ….SO….I am hoping that even a blind hog might find the acorn this time around….

    ….

  • Mb says:
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    What is the difference between a guy living on welfare in a New Jersey public housing apartment who won’t work because real work pays less, and a certain coach on rich man’s welfare who will not take a job unless he gets paid more than rich man’s welfare? Almost no difference. And yet we worship the high roller welfare guy and want to put him in charge of an operation that is supposed to teach ethics and values to the next generation. And we justify it as a good ROI. Makes perfect cents.

    • Sparkyd73 says:
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      Howland has earned his “welfare” as you call it. He negotiated a salary and length of stay and UCLA did not keep their end of that agreement. As opposed to the true welfare system that was never intended to be a lifestyle.

      This comparison is flawed.

      • Jack says:
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        I agree. It also doesn’t correlate with corporate welfare, which does correlate with transfer payments to individuals… except it’s far more than individual welfare could ever hope to be.

  • Sparkyd73 says:
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    Any coach that you bring to Corvallis is not a lock down guarantee for continual top ten. Certainly Howland is not. Betting on the come is a dangerous way to live life. I’m on your side that BD should be replaced but at this point the anti-BD crowd is going to second guess everything he does. I’m quite confident that if he would have met Howland’s demands there would have been plenty that said they overpaid for a coach that will bring boring basketball to OSU.

    I want OSU to be a basketball school. I want for them to get a great coach that brings respectability back. I want BD gone. But, not handing Howland a big contract is not the worst thing BD has done in Corvallis.

    • Jack says:
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      “Any” coach is incorrect. “Almost all” is correct. I believe the above hypothetical was regarding Calipari. I would guarantee us being top 10 with him. I would guarantee that for just about anyone. But there aren’t many coaches who could produce at such a level.

      So we look at the constantly ranked top 25 next. Howland is in that category. We hope that some new blood might also be so.

      But we really lessen the effect of any new blood when we just grip the turnip and squeeze every time we look for a new coach.

    • orangejulius says:
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      “The Pass(/Come) is the most fundamental bet in craps; almost every player at the table bets on it. If you only understand one bet in craps, it should be this one.”

  • Mud&Sticks says:
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    According to this USA Today Sports story – – in the 2011 – 2012 season Wayne Tinkle’s salary was as follows:

    School Pay: $122,596.
    Other Pay: $43,500.
    Total Pay: $166,096.

    Max Bonus $135,000.

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/story/2012-03-29/salaries-continue-rise-shaka-smart-vcu/53828414/1

    So naive me is wondering why OSU couldn’t offer Mr. Tinkle something like $600K to $800K but agree to pay his assistants the kind of salary that Howland was wanting for his assistants?

    Wouldn’t that give OSU an excellent chance of having a very strong coaching staff AND be within OSU’s budget?

  • NCAA_viOlation says:
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    Eggers says the 3 finalists for MBB coach are Tinkle, Hopkins and Ducuire. Very different from 1 week ago except for Tinkle. says one of these guys will be made coach early this week.

    http://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/221137-82149-three-finalists-for-osu-coaching-job-decuire-hopkins-tinkle

    • mckalk says:
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      Didn’t Robinson beat Tinkle head to head? I know, I know CR had better talent……but it just bugs me. I don’t want a HC that somehow lost to CR. What’s the Coppin St. head coach doing?

      • Jack says:
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        That doesn’t stop a lot of people from bringing up Menzies.

        • NCAA_viOlation says:
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          Menzies and Tinkle should not be mentioned when talking about Beavers. We all know theyre there , but we dont want to think about it.

      • helmsley says:
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        I think Tinkle vs Robinson is 1-1. Montana won, December 2010 in Missoula.

      • GOBEAVS says:
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        You realize Craig Robinson also was able to beat Ben Howland…

        Did you not want him because of that?

    • angry says:
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      The only one who gets me excited is Hopkins. I don’t see Bob D being able to pull that off. If it’s between the other two, this will be another underwhelming hire (though Tinkle is a solid coach).

      • Jack says:
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        Agreed. Tinkle is strong as a solid hire for long term. He’s a good person and a good coach. He may be a better than good coach. But he’s not even approaching the name hire necessary to immediately infuse energy into the program.

        Hopkins will do that. Getting him would be like getting Roy Williams away from Dean Smith. And he would be both most likely and most able to pull in assistants who would know and rule West Coast recruiting. The one box he doesn’t check off is head coaching experience. But I believe he has the tools necessary.

        DeCuire… whatever. Monty highly recommends him? Monty can go to hell.

        • angry says:
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          The big picture is that none of these 3 will get the casual fan back on board. That guy was Howland, for right or wrong, because he’s a big name. Hopkins would excite me, Tinkle is sound and is an upgrade over CR, DeCuire is a bizarre finalist whom I don’t think anyone wants. My gut says out of these three they will hire Tinkle because he’s (a) fairly local and (b) HC experience and (c) it is the safest hire. Hopkins probably has the most upside, and that speculation/potential would ignite more excitement. I’m preparing for Tinkle, and that is not a homerun hire–more like a solid ground rule double.

          • PdX says:
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            I have some friends that personally know Tinkle and they said they don’t see him leaving. He is where he wants to be. I will be shocked if he takes the job.

            • helmsley says:
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              Why is he agreeing to be interviewed if he isn’t interested? Also – WHO is on the hiring committee – it keeps getting referred to but seems to be a dark secret.

              • FireBDCNow says:
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                Lamar Hurd, AC Green, BDC and his new lackey associate AD is the thought. Didn’t turn out too well last time.

                • helmsley says:
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                  three people other than BDC is a committee for a Pac-12 head basketball coach? One of whom is newly arrived at the school? BDC can’t even pick a committee much less a head coach.

              • PdX says:
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                Because you always listen. Are you in business? I’m sure he would leave if they offered a insane amount of money but that won’t be the case as we all know…

          • OStater says:
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            Agree with much of this but could only call Tinkle a leadoff single at best. Like you say he may be the safest option and him having the 4* son for class of 2015 doesn’t hurt but my guess is that son will only have average impact if he comes to OSU. In general I don’t anticipate great classes and hiring from Montana seems to fit the BDC/ Riley mold of trying to make Oregon State a backwater. Not good maeketing for the inner city recruitd from Oakland and other cities that we need.

            To not think Howland is worth an extra million out of state coffers to go ahead of the Ducks when they are vulnerable is a huge mistake. Howland would bump season ticket sales substantially and winning would have a much bigger impact then $1 million to the state economy. OSU could and should have been a contender and any of these guys likely will never go higher than middle of the pack. Don’t see Tinkle gettibg us to the NCAA in under 4 years minimum and best chance for him will take 5 years. Hopkins has a chance to do it in 4 years but I would still definitely bet against it. Takes being serious and willing to invest in winning and all the positives that brings and like Howland said Oregon State didn’t have the institutional support to build a winner and it surprised him to see that attitude from a Pac-12 program.

    • Whiskey soaked napkins says:
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      A pair of never been head coaches and Ritchie McKay part 2. Wow. Color me shocked. Way to go DeCareless, you’ve truly outdone yourself.

  • FireBDCNow says:
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    Tinkle most likely will get tge job just because it means BDC failed at all his primary choices and in every negotiation. Tinkle was always there as the ripcord should BDC be unable to do his job as most expected. If so we get Tinkle because we are a Pac-12 school despite BDC who did nothing but make the process messier and had none of the bigger names rumored to be interest even interviewed it appears let alone Top 3 finalists with any chance to be our next coach. Have to give BDC a D- grade at best here. If Hopkins then he gets a slight bump. He has some intrigue and appears able to recruit and teach.

    • angry says:
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      Hopkins has more intrigue and upside, but many felt that way about CR. I think that’s why it will be Tinkle. He’s proven and safe.

      Honestly that’s probably what OSU needs right now.

      If he hires DeCuire there will be anarchy in Corvallis. Pretty safe to say that nobody wants him.

      • helmsley says:
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        How is Tinkle proven? The Big Sky conference isn’t all that challenging. And why does anyone think his kid would go to OSU just because his dad is the coach there. Might be a reason NOT to.

        • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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          “How is Tinkle proven? The Big Sky conference isn’t all that challenging.”

          Exactly. +1000 internets for you

      • osu2008 says:
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        I feel that Hopkins will be the guy. One thing I’m concerned about is weather Tinkle would end up being another Ken Bone. Guy did well at PSU but bombed at Wazzu. Another thing about Tinkle is keeping a couple of assistants on the staff like Owens and Kennedy. Feel we need to move on from Robinson entirely. Go with Hopkins as this guy has a lot of meat on the resume and is not another Jay John hire.

        • Jack says:
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          Bone left PSU in shambles. He won, but it came with a huge cost. He then did the same at Wazzu.

  • NCAA_viOlation says:
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    Luck o the Beavs would dictate we get Hopkins to sign, then this summer Boeheim will decide to resign and Hopkins will be whisked away by Syracuse, yet somehow his OSU contract will dictate we still need to pay his full deal too. Then we’ll get Tinkle.

    • Bill says:
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      Hopkins would be a good choice. Seemingly out of nowhere. For OSU they would need to protect themselves with a buyout. Say Syracuse does come calling, then they can pay a buyout for Hopkins which would help offset the salary still owed to Robinson.

  • FedUpBeav says:
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    What I am gathering is of this mediocre list of candidates only a couple people have interest in DeCuire. Why that spot isn’t Terry Porter is hard to but is because a dect coach does not want to be seen as the loser at OSU. He likely has told tbem nevermind since interezt wasn’t high enough from OSU. Seems a mistake as Porter has more experience than any of them and would help sell more tickets right away.

    Next is Tinkle who plays in an easy league but when matched against Syracuse in the NCAA Tourney was blown out. He likely won’t recruit the type of players I would like to see OSU go after hard…ie the Damian Lillard types aith something to prove. Tinkle is likely to stay in bottom third of league for a few years.

    Hopkins is best of 3 finalists as far as hopes of being something more. Recruiting wise he has AAU and city connections and is from Southern California originally. All advantages. He would have his work cut out for him but could build what he wants and should be able to make progress. Seems like a pretty goood teacher and has learned from a good teacher himself. Attendance will get a decent bump but will be up to him to start winning more and keep that going. I would give him a 6 year deal with a buyout and hope that his combo of recruits/ teaching and wanting to prove he has the chops are good enough to claw thid program back towards the upper half with a chance to crack into the NCAA in 4 or 5 years. Not seeing any reason to think more than this and ztill think a new hoops coach isn’t any more important than a new AD. De Carolis is clearly not right at Oregon State any longer.

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    Tinkle will always be #1. My superstitious buddy said the loss to the Huskies on Friday was caused by; his inability to park in his usual spot and me sitting in his seat and him in the wife’s. Everything was back to normal on Saturday for the win, should be a lock today. JB

  • FireBDCNow says:
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    DeCuire is out. Connor just tweeted per source the 2 finalists are Syracuse’s Mike Hopkins and pee in your pants Tinkle.

    • GOBEAVS says:
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      Apparently he hopes to announce it tomorrow morning. Just from what I’ve heard I guess I’d rather hire Hopkins but I think either Tinkle or Hopkins would be big improvements over CR.

      Sure it isn’t the big time signing of Howland, but both of these guys are coaches people seemed to think are pretty solid options for taking over a team. This isn’t as big of a gamble as CR was IMO so at least we are making steps in the right direction.

    • angry says:
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      DeCuire is out

      Whew.

  • FireBDCNow says:
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    Connor now saying BDC told team he hopes to announce new head coach Monday. Let’s hope its Hopkins. Lots of work to be done but he has good qualities and guidance under a great that atleast provide some hope.

  • GoBeavs82 says:
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    What we needed was a Howland – the open question now is what do we get.

    Sorry Hopkins, I doubt BDC knows how AAU works so i don’t see him credit a coach’s AAU connections. Best outcome is a still a new AD.

  • HopkinsHeadCoach says:
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    Will be very underwhelmed if Tinkle gets this job. Like stated earlier he was the ripcord option when all else failed. Between him and Hopkins please let it be Mike Hopkins. He has the experience with blue chips, by all accounts is a fine teacher and will be able to recruit higher quality players with his AAU and east and west coast connections including from big cities where alot of top players come from. Being able to get advice from Boeheim doesn’t hurt either and he values strong defense that creates offense They crushed (more than doubed up?) Montana in the Tourney. Tinkle will likely just peak around 8 or 9th in league because he won’t get the right recruits to go much higher. Hopkins is more of a Rueck type who will start building it his way and his ability and teaching will start to produce winning.

    • angry says:
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      How do you know Hopkins will due what Rueck has done?

      • HopkinsHeadCoach says:
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        Nothing is guaranteed. Just think he can recruit and teach and has better AAU connections. Like that we would play defense and his CA connections don’t hurt either. Tinkle could get us to NIT in a few but I want more. They weren’t even sure if Tinkle was getting an intervirw a week ago and now desperate Bob seems like he will go super safe and take any head coach he can get. Utah was hard to beat in MWC but is a bit less than mediocre in the Pac-12. Feel Tinkle will be the same and if so not much will change for Oregon State.

        • helmsley says:
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          I wonder if Freddie Owens had anything to do with this. I guess a good indication will be if he’s kept on as an assistant.

  • angry says:
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    From NBC:

    And the timeline of this ongoing process won’t help matters from a recruiting standpoint either, as the new head coach will have missed out on the spring’s lone open evaluation period.

    • Jack says:
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      The coaches we’re chasing did not miss that period. We just didn’t have one of them hired during said period.

  • NCAA_viOlation says:
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    A plus for Wayne Tinkle. We’d have the sexiest coach alive walking the sidelines. The bluehairs will be wondering why their wives are suddenly interested in attending games again. Might be a good idea for Bobby D to invest in some towels for the ladies to sit on at Gill.

    http://collegeinsider.com/top100/

  • angry says:
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    There is a comment floating around that Hopkins “expressed interest in the Oregon State job” a few days ago — can someone point to where he did this?

  • HopkinsHeadCoach says:
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    Shit. Tinkle will be announced tomorrow per Canzano tweet.

  • Kc says:
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    Canzsano just tweeted that tinkle will be coach

    • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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      ho hum. Hope he can win the press conference. I won’t be listening

  • angry says:
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    Safe hire.

    Not bad, but just nothing to get excited about.

    • Bill says:
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      I hope he’s a patient man. It’s going to be a rough first year unless he can convince Cooke to come back. Hopefully with the savings they get from hiring Tinkle vs Howland, Tinkle can hire an experienced recruiter.

  • Mb says:
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    Judd Heathcote, Mike Montgomery, Stew Morrill….nothing to get excited about. Right.

    • Mud&Sticks says:
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      It’s way too early to get excited but at least there’s hope. It appears that the new coach won’t have a lot to work with so it’s important for him to get everything he can out of what’s left. Might be an early indication of how well he can coach. Can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear but at this point any kind of a purse is better than nothing.

      Sure hope bobby has set things up so that the new coach has funds available for hiring a solid staff and doing the necessary recruiting.

      • helmsley says:
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        I have the feeling that the “solid staff” might well include assistants who are already there which might be what good old BDC especially liked.

  • beavergopher says:
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    Tinkle’s defense = Depends.

  • NCAA_viOlation says:
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    Rumors are floating around Twitter that David Grace is pissed at Tinkle.

  • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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    Tinkle has never won a postseason tournament game. Hell, he couldn’t even win a game against Duquesne in the craig robinson postseason classic. How is this a solid hire?

    • beavergopher says:
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      He is Hillary Clinton’s younger brother silly. They look just like each other, except Wayne does not have the cankles like big sis.

    • RanYakumo says:
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      Where are you getting this from? He’s gotten to the 2nd Round of the NCAA Division I Tournament before.

  • helmsley says:
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    I don’t think the new coach has had much experience with being criticized or with jokes about his name. As for recruiting, I’d love to hear/see the expression from a kid in, say Pennsylvania, “WHERE did you coach b4 Oregon State?”

    As much as I didn’t like CR’s coaching I also didn’t like the vitriol that poured out because of his relatives’ political connections. so I guess name jokes pale in comparison.

  • beavergopher says:
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    bleacherreport.com/…/2068157-wayne-tinkle-to-oregon-…
    Bleacher Report
    49 mins ago – From the President of the United States’ brother-in-law to a Big Sky export: Oregon State has reportedly hired the University of Montana’s …

  • osu2008 says:
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    Tinkle also likes the 1-3-1 according to an article I just read. Anybody familiar with his coaching abilities? I’m not sold on this hire. Felt Hopkins or Musselman would have been better.

  • RanYakumo says:
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    Tinkle’s a solid hire. Nothing special, but if he can get the Beavs to the NIT within the next four years, that will be a good start.

  • mckalk says:
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    I didn’t know that Charlie Rich could coach hoops! The plus 70 OSU crowd should love the “silver fox”.

    Maybe he brings his son aboard and The Beavs can get a Creighton/McDermott thing going on for a couple of years. That’s not all bad.

  • beaverkman says:
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    This hire will be evaluated by it’s results, just like CR. It’s a sinking line drive that the centerfielder has to decide whether to dive out and trap it for a single and risk having it get by him and roll all the way to the wall where it could go for an inside-the-park HR.

    There will be those who will say “I knew it was a bad hire” or “if you just understood coaching you would know this was a great hire”

    Nobody knows and it will be judged by results. It’s about what I have come to expect for the bean counter.

    • Bill says:
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      My initial impressions are that it’s a decent hire. Not one that will excite the fan base or give a reason to watch the team this next year.

      He clearly wanted the job, which is a good thing. He’s leaving a setup where he could probably have been the coach for a very long time. It’s what all alums dream of, a former player comes back to lead the program and takes it to the tourney multiple times.

      His success will all depend on his recruiting. I think if he can get the players the CR was getting, he’ll be fine.

  • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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    DeCareless pisses down his leg, hires Montana’s coach Tinkle

  • GoBeavs82 says:
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    Thanks Bob!

    I was starting to get anxious just thinking about the potential of having a name brand coach that brought excitement to GILL. You’ve put to rest the anxiety of decided months in advance to book hotel rooms for basketball games and trying to guess where they would play in rounds 2 and 3 and the fiasco of getting last minutes flights and hotels.

    • rsteve503 says:
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      LOL … yeah, we went from Howland to Tinkle and its kind of a letdown. But one might think its easier to get talent at OSU than at Montana, so he might do oK. I suspect part of the plus is that this is for him a step up and so maybe he works like hell to further that career. Howland would probably see it as part of the late career downslide….

      But I sure agree — nothing to plant any real excitement. He is gonna have to get results to put butts back in seats.

  • bendbeaver says:
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    I tried to think of a good Flowmax joke, but I came up dry.

  • slamdam says:
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    Wayne Tinkle? Are you fucking kidding me?

  • Jack says:
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    Okay…

    I will give Bobby D credit here. He said in the presser two weeks ago that he hoped he would be back in two weeks to announce the hire. He stuck to that. I think this is important.

    The feeling from the outset was that he wanted a head man to be his head man. He was tired of taking chances on assistants. I think this is also important. I think Hopkins would have been a decent hire, but I think it would have been taking a chance.

    I like Tinkle. I think he’s a solid coach. I do love that he coaches bigs to excellence. Hoops is a game where bigs rule. But what will be lost in the initial discussion will be how his guards thrive when his bigs succeed. It’s always about making room outside by diverting the D to your bigs. Someone like GPII and Chai Baker will thrive. Malcolm and LMW will thrive. Gomis, N’diaye, Manderson and especially Oliver will be meaty beaty big and bouncy.

    The very first thing he needs to do is to wrap up the gift CR left with the incoming class. If he can do that, we will see results in year one. Beyond that, Tinkle has a lot of upside as a head man. It’s who his assistants are that will rule how he does going forward. I expect Owens will stay. But he needs one coach who is connected. We will see.

    I think Tinkle can be a very good to great long term hire. I think he’s a better fit than even Howland. Hopkins may go on to do something bigger and better. But he is an assistant, and we really needed a head man. I don’t care that he’s SU, and SU is big time. He is not leading SU. Someone else is.

    I think Musselman will be the “we could have had” opportunity that everyone, not just OSU, will be lamenting in 20 years.

    • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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      CR was a head coach at Brown. So was Ritchie McKay (CSU) and Eddie Payne (East Carolina).

      I read that CR told Stoudamire he wasn’t willing to take a chance on another assistant. Fair enough. But when you routinely hire on the cheap, the list of candidates willing to risk career failure is much smaller and notably less qualified to get the ship righted. As I have stated time and time again, you get what you pay for.

      • Beavergopher says:
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        I presume you only consume fine line napkins?

      • Jack says:
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        Tinkle has had more success than just the flash the others had. Tinkle has been to the big dance more than all those you just mentioned… before and after their OSU stints. And one of those was just a freak run in a low-major conference tourney.

        I think Tinkle also outpaces the one 20+ win season all of those guys have had (other than CR’s 21 win season at OSU).

        He is, in actuality, a very good coach. He’s not a name hire, so he won’t awaken the program just by being hired. But he is an x’s and o’s guy who will produce solid results in the middle to long term… and maybe even in the short term.

      • Jack says:
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        And remember that CR also had the skills required for a program that was in tatters as far as the APR was concerned. CR did a lot of stuff right. Winning was the only thing he failed at.

    • Beavergopher says:
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      I wish it had been Musselman. This is the safe hire and kind of a letdown for the fans. Hope for the best.

      • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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        that’s what I was hoping for as well

      • Bill says:
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        I doubt Musselman would have moved the needle anymore than Tinkle. Stoudamire, Porter, Hollins or Howland would have caught the attention of the casual fan.

        • Jack says:
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          Musselman might not have moved the needle in an apathetic OSU fan base. But he would have been a huge name in national circles. He would have brought immediate credibility from that standpoint. This is a guy who produces results in every level he’s ever coached. And his methods in sub-NBA levels where talent is transient is especially enticing where the college landscape is increasingly unstable in terms of player loyalty.

          He is only well-respected in AAU circuits because he chose his college learning experience as ASU. Working under Sendek was a bad choice. And maybe that points to a negative he might have. But his stated goal was to learn the college game so that he could translate his pro skills to that level.

          I think he must have asked too much for the bean counter to take what he thought was a risk. Musselman is a head coach though. The only reason he was an assistant was to learn the recruiting game. I trust his abilities to do so, and I trust that he left ASU because Sendek is just a shitty coach.

          Musselman might be next at ASU if nobody else takes him. He’s intuitive with talent. Hopkins is a metrics guy, so I don’t know that he’s ever going to rise above Monty-like results. Most schools will take those results and run with them. Musselman gets more with less… and not in a Riley way. He is over the hump without effort… because of his own effort.

          We’ll see. I think Tinkle has a lot of upside. He’s also a metrics kind of guy. If you line up your team against his, and his team is longer and taller than yours… you’re going to lose a majority of the time.

          He has some very good talent in place and incoming if he can keep them all. It should not go unnoticed that Will Cherry was a stellar guard during his time at Montana.

  • Beavblazer says:
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    Seems like every few stories about Tinkle today, the writer is already linking Tres Tinkle to Oregon State, saying he’s expected to come here now that his dad is coach. Is this just lazy journalism?

    Also, is this just lazy recruiting? Do the Beavs purposely go after family of talented players in order to make talented players feel obligated to come here? Examples I can think of are recruiting James Rodgers in order to get at Quizz (although they deny this, and James ended up being great on his own), hiring Coach Seumalo and getting his boys. It’s all part of the family atmosphere. Even hiring Craig Robinson was motivated by his family ties more-so than his coaching abilities.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2014/05/wayne_tinkle_part_of_most_tale.html

    http://www.kgw.com/sports/Montanas-Tinkle-to-be-named-new-Oregon-State-BB-coach-259805491.html

    • Jack says:
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      None of those recruits/hires even remotely come close to the rumors you just foisted. All of them were independent… extremely so. The benefits were very positive. But the benefits are a very very very lazy fallacy for causation.

      • Beavblazer says:
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        i don’t buy that James Rodgers recruitment was completely independent Quizz. They used to love telling the story of Langsdorf showing up for James and having coaches say “you’re here for Quiz right?” and Langsdorf saying “I didn’t even know who Jacquizz Rodgers was”.

        Ok, actually, since it was Langsdorf, I totally believe it. Nevermind.

        http://www.osubeavers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=30800&ATCLID=207826560

        • Jack says:
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          Heh heh… yeah.

          Remember that Quizz wasn’t even a viable D1 prospect until James showed up as a frosh. All it took was James’ first fly sweep to realize that Quizz was an OMG! talent.

  • Jack says:
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    It has to be said:
    http://www.baseballamerica.com/college/college-top-25-may-19/#.U3onQBXP-As.twitter

  • Dwill03 says:
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    OT: Went to the happiest place on earth last week and for the first time I can remember out of state, I counted more people wearing Beaver gear then hole swag. Also got a lot of GO BEAVS shout outs.

  • Calibeav says:
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    You were right by my house man. I’m about 2.5 miles from Disneyland.

    I’ve noticed a Beaver fan trend as well. About once a month there will be people visiting Disney decked out in Beaver gear at our grocery store.

  • scotty says:
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    It’s past time for Bobby D to be shown the door, but that IS a lot of money for the b-ball program.

    Then again, what’s the cost of another blaaaaaah coach…

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