09.Mar.2012 Basketball: Oregon State vs Arizona (Pac-12 Tournament)

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Keys to this game are the bigs (Collier, Moreland, and Burton) continuing to peak and support the perimeter play, getting off to a fast start, overcoming physical and psychological fatigue, and sustaining focus. The usual "rebound, play D, and make free throws" of course, too (but I'm getting tired of writing beating that dead horse). D was horrible versus Washigton…guys can't stand around watching and expect to keep advancing. Nelson should be back tonight, which should provide some fresh legs.

I don't have any feel for this game. Does anyone? I think we'll know in the first five minutes. If they aren't fatigued they'll be in it. This is icing on the cake and quite fun–something they and we should enjoy rather than stress over.

Go Beavs.

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  • MonkeyLuven MonkeyLuven says:
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    Anybody with a stream?

  • issaquahbeav says:
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    I agree, Angry. We are in the bonus right now and should just be thankful to still be playing. Kind of a defeatist mentality but it is what it is.

    Since I’m riding the rollcoaster of fun with these guys, I say it’s the Beavs that prevail…71-59.

  • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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    Tubby Smith= worst end of game coach in CB.

    Go Beavs!

  • BeavMonkey says:
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    Win a clutch game? that’s not the beavers.

    If we win, I will change my name to DuckMonkey for a month.

    srsly.

    • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      Ok, you heard it folks!
      LOVE it when guys put something on the line like this, props to you BeavMonkey.
      Just can’t bring myself to lay JasontheDuck on the line.

  • SadBeaver says:
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    anyone have a stream that is up?

    • StarcraftSquall says:
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      First Row doesn’t have a working stream, either. Arrgh.

  • homefry homefry says:
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    As posted earlier ESPN 71.7 – 71.4 UA, betting line is 2.5 AZ…I’m going for the trifecta today, Bend was 72 degrees, softball practice and beers in the parking lot afterwards, and OSU 76-71.

    Book it, dano!

  • HopefulBeav says:
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    Ugh. I still say Brandt is worthless.

  • GoBeavs90 says:
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    Angus is being incredibly soft tonight, again.

  • GoBeavs90 says:
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    Beaver big guys are being incredibly soft. They’re trying to finesse everything. Guys need to start playing with some toughness.

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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    Stream: http://www.firstrowsports.eu/watch/112245/1/watch-oregon-state-vs-arizona.html

  • HopefulBeav says:
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    We look like we’re just playing street ball out there.

  • slamadam says:
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    hows the baseball team doing?

    • oneoldbeav says:
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      Two out WV half (bottom) of 4, Beavs up 1-0; Wetzler just got third out, his 4th? K tonight.

    • GoBeavs90 says:
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      1-0 Beavers through 4

  • SadBeaver says:
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    http://www.justin.tv/sportzzworld45#/w/2732999376/5

    • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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      Thanks. Here’s hoping those dick heads don’t switch to another game the way they did last night.

  • HopefulBeav says:
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    Are we just going to leave them open on the perimeter the whole game? This would be a great time to get out of this zone.

    • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      What I don’t get is why on the last two threes by Hill, there’s been a guy (can’t see well enough who on this stream) who peels off to guard somebody else when Hill steps to shoot.

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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    An O rebound and a put back by Angus. Hot Damn

  • HopefulBeav says:
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    Burton has been huge in this tournament!

  • HopefulBeav says:
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    Brent Barry in the house too.

  • oneoldbeav says:
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    Baseball….4 zip Beavs end of 5th. Wetzler with 6 K’s so far.

  • JD says:
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    The Beavers look like the better team. Hopefully they can keep up the energy in the second half

  • oneoldbeav says:
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    Keyes sac fly, Beavs 5 zip.

  • GoBeavs90 says:
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    Beavers catching no breaks from the officials. Arizona breathes and they get a foul call. Cunningham has been hit fairly hard twice going to the rim and no call. Nick Johnson gets slightly bumped and gets free throws.

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    Second half starting the same way as the first. Beavs not finishing well at the rim. 18-3 run for UA.

  • HopefulBeav says:
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    I don’t get it. We do this crap every game. Have we played a complete game against a single conference opponent?

  • GoBeavs90 says:
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    The Beavers look tired. They’ve missed a lot of chippies and are missing open shots. Arizona hitting jump shots. Beavers just need to hang around and make a push in the last 5 minutes to try and win this thing. As long as they stay in this they got a shot.

    • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      Didn’t even go for the rebound on a missed one-and-one. I can’t see them putting together a run at this point.

  • slamadam says:
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    barton to the rescue (?)

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    getting nothing from Moreland.

  • Timber! says:
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    fatigue is not a good excuse.

    • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      Even NBA players play worse on the second half of a back-to-back.

      • Timber! says:
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        Arizona had a better 2nd half plan.

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          What, miss OSU’s layups for them? Beavs did that on their own. OSU has more FG attempts than UA this half with a TON of good looks, but they’re not putting them in.

          • Timber! says:
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            2 players should be fatigued, Jared and Devon. Add Burton because he’s always been out of shape. That’s it.

          • GoBeavs90 says:
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            Ahmad has played A LOT of minutes as well. When 3 of your main guys are exhausted it is hard to win.

    • Timber! says:
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      unless you’re collier or cunningham

  • GoBeavs90 says:
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    Roberto Nelson look relatively fresh, gonna need him to play big to try and keep the Beavers in this, everyone else just looked gassed. Zona may pull away soon, unfortunately. Fresher team.

  • Grape says:
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    I stopped watching, just don’t want to watch right now.

  • Grape says:
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    Beavs down 13, 5 min to play.. I think we lose this one here guys

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    definitely look like the legs are not all there, not getting rebounds, missing chip-ins. However, they are still playing hard and not giving up. If they can get it down to 6 with 1:15 they still have a shot, there is no pressure on them, let it all hang out now.

  • GoBeavs90 says:
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    Beavers will likely lose, but I loved the run they had. Just didn’t quite have enough left for the second half tonight. Fun ride. I hope they get an NIT invite.

    • Grape says:
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      Yeah, can’t blame them. But, I was really hoping for a win here tonight, would of been huge..

  • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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    done

  • GoBeavs90 says:
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    What I think really hurt the Beavers, especially the guards was not having Roberto for yesterday and Barton not being ready. Beavers had to play Cunningham and Starks so many minutes the first two days of the tournament and it wore them down, especially in the second half. Next season the team will have some more depth and be better.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    Maybe they get an NIT bid, Arizona beats Cal and they NCAA takes UW? I think we could make a case for NIT over Stanford and Oregon.

    Young team this is good experience something to build on. Everybody needs to work on their game a litttle bit. Need to have some leadership. Hopefully, so of these new kids can help us next year.

    • mckalk says:
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      They might get an NIT bid, but it won’t be over Oregon, UCLA ,Stanford or Colorado (those teams get in). The committee will consider league records closely and it’s hard to justify a 7-11 team over all the others with their plus .500 records. My fear is the the NIT is not going to take five P-12 teams, so the Beavs are odd man out and CBI bound again.

  • StarcraftSquall says:
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    Big picture overview: the Beavers had a much better championship week than anyone expected them to, I feel that they may have just been running on fumes tonight. Am I disappointed? Of course, I wanted to win and advance. But am I pleased about the improvement this weekend? Absolutely.

    • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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      I think Ernie Kent had it right on, they were emotional the last game, they were emotional during the press conference, and they played emotionally tonight and that kinda of wore them down. What they need to do is how to learn how to deal with those emotions. Too many times this year they had moments where they disappeared or just faded. They really need the leadership of somebody who can keep them together.

      One game Nelson disappears, another game Collier has no impact, and another its Moreland. They need to become a more consistent unit. but you have Pac12 runner-up POY coming back as a Senior, and only lose McShane. They have got a good nucelius, just need to get tougher mentally, we shall see if they can make that next step.

  • presleydog says:
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    those refs should be fired immediately I wouldn’t trust that crew to ref a middle school game they were either incompetant, crooked, or retarted. Punch the other guy in the head and take the ball is not how basketball is played.

  • GoBeavs90 says:
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    Beavers baseball won 11-0 and Ben Wetzler threw a 1 hitter. 7 inning game cause of 10 run rule with this tournament. Wetzler pitched extremely well. Really stepped up big time. Hopefully he continues to build on this performance and proves he’s a top of the rotation caliber guy.

  • Beav05 says:
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    I think the beavs have a good shot at the NIT. Beat three, maybe four tournament teams. Finished strong.

    It would be best for the team to keep going in any tournament they can. More practice, more time to develop the bench guys.

  • GoBeavs90 says:
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    Turns out Moreland was having back problems. Just wasn’t the Beavers’ night.

  • mckalk says:
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    It’s tough because we saw them play outstanding for that 10 minute stretch in the first half and I hate Arizona. I think all of the missed layups killed them, I was flashing back to last year.

    Oh well, I’ll take a winning record, I hope they go to a post-season tourney and get at least one win, so 20 W’s are officially on the board. Next year, they must be above .500 in league play. I’m thinking anything less than 11-7 will be a disappointment.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    Coach Rob said some interesting things, I hadn’t thought about. He took full blame for some of the loses because he choose to put in new offense AND defense in the same season. The team kept working hard all season. Next season they should run the same stuff and won’t have to learn a new system. Hopefully help the development.

  • angry angry says:
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    Exciting last few weeks and overall saw progress. I’m alright with this year…seems like things are going the right direction.

    Tonight….I don’t know why these guys don’t play defense. Wildcats just running around in the paint with nobody around them or a guy standing there watching instead of defending. They’ve done it all year, so it’s not fatigue.

    Angus Brandt does some nice things here and there, but overall he’s a liability. Unless he makes huge strides (unlikely) this off season, he needs to be replaced next year.

    • GoBeavs90 says:
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      I agree about Brandt. To me he just plays too soft. He needs to get stronger and get a little more mentally tough. Other teams know if they bump him and play physical with him that he will shy away and not fight through it.

      I expect Collier, Cunningham and Moreland to all make big strides. Roberto Nelson and Challe Barton will be big keys as well. If Nelson can play like he did tonight with consistency the team is going to be so good. Also, if Barton plays with confidence and improves his shooting and passing, it will add some much needed depth to the backcourt and allow Cunningham to get more rest. He was worn down in the second half tonight because he had to play so many minutes.

      I think the program is headed in the right direction, I really hope they get an NIT bid. Would like to see the guys get some more games and go on a run there and build for next season.

    • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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      Not making excuses, and every team has them, however it sounds like the team was really banged up. Nelson’s thumb, Moreland’s back, ankle, and shoulder, Collier’s dislocated knee cap, Burton’s been banged up since mid-January, JC’s is constantly dinged up, McShane got hurt today and couldn’t play much. Another thing the team has to learn to play with and through.

      • osbeavs says:
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        Why mention mcshane? Wasn’t he a liability anyways?

        Also, I really feel like Barton really needs to improve his defense. He is often out of position and makes some poor decisions.

  • BeavMonkey says:
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    I wouldn’t sweat this one. Arizona is a good team. And fluctuations in play happen. I have noticed that the beavers are never at their best end of the bell curve for these clutch game. That said, they played decently tonight. I don’t doubt the players have heart.

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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    While there was improvement I’m still not sure I’m sold on CR as being worthy of drawing a salary that’s greater than $18K PER WEEK.

    This team’s weakness in the fundamentals has resulted in losses which shouldn’t have happened. The same goes for the play ground, out of control play which happened all too often during games. He can bring in talent which the OSU basketball program hasn’t had for YEARS but, imo, he’s not making use of it.

    I’ve read glowing reports about Pete Newell’s Big Man Camp which apparently does wonders for the big men who attend it. http://www.petenewellbigmancamp.net/campinformation.html

    Does OSU have the resources to send Brandt and perhaps a couple others to this big man camp? Can a fan pay for the player to attend?

    Now if only there’s a coach’s camp where coaches could work on their game time decision making skills.

    ——————
    Based on the Trib story and what Jack posted, during this past week the gross pay of the folks in the OSU athletic department that I wonder about are as follows:

    Bobby D ~ $9,615.00 ($500K annual)
    Mike R ~$22,000.00 ($1,151,667. annual)
    Mark B ~ $6,933.00 ($360.5K annual)
    Craig R ~$18,269.00 ($950K annual)

    http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=130212662027395500

    Are OSU and the fans getting their money’s worth?

    Does Dr. Ray care about OSU athletics?

    • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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      You think $950,000 is too much? What do you think other coaches are paid? They aren’t going to get a better coach for less if that’s what you’re thinking, unless they could hire you to coach.

      • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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        I don’t think it’s too much I think he currently doesn’t deserve that much based on how he’s coaching. How much is the ladies BB coach making? I think he’s currently putting a better “team” on the floor than CR is and I’m not talking about the level of talent.

        • GoBeavs90 says:
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          Comparing women and men’s sports is just stupid. They aren’t the same game.

    • helmsley says:
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      What are the NCAA rules as to who pays for sending players to camps, i.e., the Pete Newell camp? NY Times – Joe Nocera’s stupid NCAA rules:

      http://nocera.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/stupidest-n-c-a-a-rule/

      • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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        Thanks helmsley. Holy Moley! And here I was thinking about paying for a couple of them to go.

        I about choked when I read this one:

        snip
        A friend’s daughter was a rower at a major university. After reading an article that researchers had determined that chocolate milk is a superior exercise recovery drink, her coach began supplying it to her team after hard workouts. It was better than the sports drinks the coach had been supplying. But the NCAA found the coach in violation of supplying meals to athletes, an improper benefit. Drinks such as Gatorade—an N.C.A.A. sponsor that supplies a drink chock full of corn sugars—were acceptable, but not chocolate milk, or even plain old cow juice. The coach, facing a violation which could affect her career, invested many hours on top of her already-brutal schedule fighting the ruling and providing documents and such.

        To the surprise of all, the N.C.A.A. relented. Chocolate milk after workouts is now acceptable.
        snip

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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    subscribe

  • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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    Nelson is a puzzling player to me. I think that I, a 50 year old white dude, may have a much better vertical. Yet he tries to play like he has the hops of M Jordan and is constantly getting snuffed.

    Brandt plays too soft and misses way too many shots close to the basket in the half court. One thing that the whole team needs to really work on is strength training. They have a lot of rebounds and put backs slapped out of their hands.

    Team is really built for the open court style as all our bigs can really get out and run, but only Collier has a semblance of a reliable close in game. Burton has some amazing passing skills but has to compensate for his one inch vertical with the loopty-do hail mary shots he tosses up. He needs serious work with asst coach Jenny Craig in the off-season.

    Little run at the end of the season put a smiley face on a disappointing conference performance.
    Next year there are no excuses. This will be a very experienced, veteran team. Anything short of a top four finish and a NCAA bid should put CR’s job in question.

    • angry angry says:
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      Nelson played great last night. I think he’s struggling with confidence and work ethic. Should be much better next season.

    • slamadam says:
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      why? because that’s the level of success we’ve become accustomed to at oregon state? this is the best shape the program has been in since payton left. just roll with it

  • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    I agree.

  • angry angry says:
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    What I like most about this team is the chemistry. As CR pointed out, they genuinely seem to like one another. It’s tangible. And a big relief after the Calvin Haynes years…

    All they need now is better D and to master the psychological component (there are stages to games and seasons, and they haven’t figured out how to cope with all of them).

  • RipCity808 says:
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    Warning: This is a long post, but after attending every OSU home game for the past 4 years, these are my thoughts:

    1) Jettison the 1-3-1 zone D. Our best rebounders (Moreland & Collier) are at the top, 25 feet away from the basket, and it leaves diminutive Ahmad guarding centers a full foot + taller than him. There are also huge gaps in the spacing leaving shooters wide open. And people wonder why teams are always on fire against us? The 1-3-1 can work against 2 types of teams: the undermanned (Chicago St., Towson, et al.) and the unprepared (Altman game 1 when Moreland had 4 steals and led the comeback). But, it’s not gonna be successful against Pac-12 teams who’ve had the entire season to gameplan for it, like the Ducks game 2 and the Wildcats. In the semis, the Beavs hold Zona to only 3 points through the first media timeout, and then Coach inexplicably switches to the 1-3-1. Before you can say “Why are we switching from man?” Zona explodes for a 7-0 run.

    Coach said at the start of the year that we finally have the talent to play straight up man. Numbers indicate our man defense is our best defense. So, let’s roll with it.

    2) Game management needs improvement. I will give Coach Rob props. He has improved tremendously in his rotations. I love the offense/defense switches he’s made late in games throughout the season. e.g. subbing Moreland & Challe for D, and then subbing Brandt/Burton & Roberto for O. The noteworthy area in-game coaching needs improvement on is calling timeouts at the right time. When opponents go on runs, call a TO! Don’t wait until they storm back to take the lead by 5 points. e.g. Zona down 34-27 at half, catapults to the lead on a 14-2 run before TO is called. Call the TO to stop their momentum before they get the lead, or at least when they tie it. Numerous games we’ve ended with 3-4 TO’s. They don’t carry over. Use them when necessary. Basketball is a game of momentum, and TO’s can help to stop momentum.

    One more thing on TO’s. At the end of the first half, if opponents score, the clock continues to run. Multiple times throughout the season, when players scramble to in-bound, the ball is bouncing around with the clock still ticking. By the time the ball is in-bounded, there’s not enough time to get off a decent shot (think: Roberto in the Colorado game. Askia Booker scores with 6 seconds left, by the time the ball is in-bounded to Roberto there’s only 2 seconds left, and he misses a desperation shot). Coach needs to realize this and call a TO at 6 seconds. Get organized, set up a play, and run it.

    3) The starting lineup needs to be tweaked. Ahmad is not a pure point guard, and never will be. He only averages 2.7 apg. That’s 3rd on the team after Jared (2.9) and Joe (2.8). He epitomizes the shoot first, pass second PG, and I think he’s best as a Jason Terry-like player. Come off the bench, and light it up, young fella! Jared’s vision and passing ability has taken leaps and bounds since he came to Corvallis in ’09, as he’s demonstrated by his 18 pts, 10 rebs, & 8 assists game vs. UW (actually could have secured a triple double if Joe & Angus finished chippies). Throughout the season, Jared has 7 games of 5 or more assists, while Ahmad only has 5 games even though he’s the dominant ball handler. Yeah, you probably guess the direction I’m heading. I think the Beavers new starting point guard should be Jared Cunningham.

    At the 2-guard, start Roberto. The main knock on Berto has been his inconsistency, but I think he’ll only become more consistent with more game experience. He has shown flashes of brilliance, like the play of the game dish to Joe in the WSU game. He also is an emotional player who’s affected by the circumstances (better stats at home vs the road. 2 best road games were when his Dad watched him play in the NorCal games). Berto’s been a starter his whole life and I think being named the starter will be a huge confidence boost. I think him and Jared will make a formidable backcourt punch, and I’ll take them next year over any starting backcourt in the conference.

    Plus, this move will help protect Ahmad’s noticeable deficiency — his defense. Too many times opponents have taken advantage of Ahmad on the defensive end. He plays decent on the ball defense, but once they have him in the post, it’s over. I think that’s one of the major reasons Coach has shied away from playing so much man, so opponents wouldn’t repeatedly attack Ahmad. Although Roberto doesn’t play the greatest D, I don’t think opponents can take advantage of him like Ahmad.

    Well, that’s my 2 cents. I’m proud of this team for playing with heart and hustle, and I really like the direction the program is heading.

    • mckalk says:
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      Good stuff, I am beginning to think that Seth Tarver made the 1-3-1 and the 1-3-1 did not make him. Seth was a freak of energy and determination not to be seen in a decade. Time to let it go, too many average P-12 players are drooling to take uncontested spot up three’s against the Beavs.
      CR also needs to recruit a dead eye spot up three baller with enough height to get his shot off or could it be Murphy next year? Brandt actually has the nicest form, but the guy is a basket case of inconsistency. They don’t have what I would call a prototypical three point shooter and they need one.

      • RipCity808 says:
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        Absolutely. The Beavs need someone like Baylor’s Brady Heslip. Jared and Roberto are decent dribble-drive penetrators, but they need someone to kick it out to when they suck in the D.

        • mckalk says:
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          And if you notice, they don’t even penetrate and kick for threes in their current offense because who are they going to kick to? Beavs get their threes of off screens and Starks going one on one. Now and then, they will rotate nicely and get a corner three. Even Roberto had to go really deep yesterday to get his shot off. Other P-12 teams get nice shots just standing at the line waiting for the kick out. It’s part of the game now. Penetrate and kick has to be a tool next year.

    • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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      Agree with Starks coming off the bench and with virtually your entire post. My point about next year is it should all come together and that if it doesn’t, it probably never will. JC is a rare talent.

    • angry angry says:
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      I figured Robinson switched to zone last night only because they were wiped. I actually think Nelson might be the best pure point guard. He’s pretty good dribbling, driving, and passing. He’s so unselfish, so at point he could distribute and let the shots come to him. His three point shoot looked pure this year. He just needs confidence in himself and to take those shots within the natural flow of the offense.

      I agree they should abandon the 1-3-1 zone. Their spacing it on it is all wrong and the players lose track of their guy too easily. They just aren’t good at it. I think man and 2-3 zone (when appropriate) are the best defenses for this personnel.

  • mckalk says:
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    Regarding NIT possibilities. This guy has them on the bubble or out. Updated yesterday.

    http://nitology.com/

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    Good run by us. Third game in three days, it IS an excuse, to get tired. Good, positive way to finish the season. Too bad the conference doesnt have a couple hi ranking teams, to give us more stature.

    We need to keep recruiting talent, and get some depth. Cunningham is a good talent, but is not a Payton.

    The conference needs to schedule the tournament so the finals are on Sunday, like the big ten does. More exposure.

    • angry angry says:
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      Yeah, but how many guys are a Payton in this conference? Payton is a NBA future Hall of Famer…

  • mckalk says:
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    I thought it was interesting that Cunningham did not come out and say he was staying when asked. I don’t think he is anyway near ready for the NBA. I’d hate to see Corey Benjamin redux.

    • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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      No way he should go to the NBA. Has a chance to be really special next year if he works on his outside shot.

  • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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    BTW. Altman’s name coming up for the Nebraska job. Way worse job, but it is home sweet home.

    • osbeavs says:
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      Wouldn’t you rather be at Creighton than Nebraska for basketball anyways? No way he takes the job.

      • Jack says:
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        Altman was on the outs at Creighton ever since the Arkansas incident.

    • mckalk says:
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      I guess the Big Ten might be a more prestigious gig than P-12 at this point. If Altman seriously pursues the job, it might go to Jack’s point about Duck’s with power not being that enthused by him.

  • matt b says:
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    Best thing that could happen to the Beavers would be to send CR and MR to visit El Loco Bielsa for a week. They would learn motivation, intensity, tactics,style, mental preparation, cardiovascular preparation, cooperation, movement without the ball, strategy, but most of all how to win in a small market with extremely limited recruiting and no money.

  • GoBeavs90 says:
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    Colorado and Arizona looked today like how the Beavers looked in the second half last night. Both teams were spent and Colorado barely hung on for the win and advanced to the Big Dance. Neither team could make anything in the last 5 minutes.

  • Grape says:
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    Vanderbilt beats #1 Kentucky for the SEC championship… and Beavers only lost by 1 point towards the last 10 seconds to them.

    • Jack says:
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      Ifs and buts…

      The ball bounces here instead of there a couple times, and we’re looking at a much better season.

      Oh well. The important part is that they didn’t just roll over when it all happened.

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