11.Jan.2013 What is Wrong with Oregon State Hoops?

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Year over year statistics don't show any glaring differences. They had two more steals per game last year. FG% is down .10%. Rebounds are actually up (5 per game, though that could be due to more missed shots). It looks like a wash overall, though. You can see the stats here.

So what is the issue?

I want others' feedback since I have only watched a handful of games. What I saw on this games:

  • Street ball offense…hardly any set plays, players improvising on every possession, sloppy, etc.
  • Disinterest in playing defense…to many easy or uncontested shots.
  • CR looks shot. Head down, hand holding up his slouched head. When he first arrived, he was fiery and into it.
  • Players haven't developed enough or at all. The only guy who has clearly improved is Moreland. Joe Burton is almost the exact same player he was four years ago. Starks, too. Nelson has show minor improvement.
  • Depth. The injuries have hurt, I suppose, but it's not like Brandt was a force. Jared Cunningham's departure is the biggest difference. There was talk the young guys were ready to step up and fill that void, but they haven't.
  • Young players aren't ready. This isn't a plug and play school, unfortunately. The new guys need a year or two to develop it seems.
  • Recruiting classes overrated? I'm not sure on this one. I think in a proper offense and with good coaching some of these guys could be great. Collier, Nelson, and Moreland all come to mind. They are legit players for the right coach/system.
  • Games have all been fairly close, which tells me they're playing to the level of the competition. They want to do just enough to stick around rather than give all they have and win.

Thoughts?

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  • G Joubert says:
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    Hate to say it, but at this point it’s gotta be coaching. He’s had an ample opportunity, and based on name and associations, he can recruit. Supposedly. But he’s in over his head when it comes to Xs and 0s.

  • ean says:
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    I just don’t think CR is a very good coach. I think he would be a decent coach with the right players. If he had a PG capable of running an offense and a post capable of commanding a defense he would probably do okay… but at that point the best coach is one that just stays out of the way anyway.

    • ean says:
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      I don’t know what the answer is either. If we fire Rob this is a very unattractive job. I think a lot of folks in the coaching community don’t see OSU as a place where they can have much more success than what CR is having now… firing him just reinforces the idea that OSU is a career killer. I like the fact that he appears to have strong morals and is a good mentor. I wish he would hire an assistant with a better grasp on the game…. or maybe listen to his assistants more if one is already on staff.

      • angry angry says:
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        In September Bob D extended him through 2017 so like all coaching discussions at OSU, it’s moot.

        He has done some good things. They were horrible when he arrived. I actually thought this team would be worse than last year’s so I’m not as down as some here. I think next year will be more telling. I think CR is a C+ coach and B recruiter. Better than the last guy but still not good.

        • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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          Extended him long enough to let the “Obama effect” work on recruiting. Wooing kids with promises of meeting the president is, unfortunately, the best thing the program has going for it right now. (not a dig on Obama, just saying we have nothing else to hang our hat on right now) I doubt a shiny new practice facility will sway a kids decision, considering most programs have practice facilities already.

          • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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            You got it.

          • Jack says:
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            Ok…

            First off… ncaa… I don’t accuse you of the nigger-hater factor.

            But anyone who brings it up has to be scrutinized.

            It’s pervasive and whole. And I think it keeps the fogies who complain about people standing up in front of them at football games from even going to hoops games.

            You people suck in so many ways.

          • ncaa_violation ncaa_violation says:
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            What is “it”, if you’re not accusing me of it? How can you deny having the presidents brother in law coaching the team isnt the best thing going for us in recruiting? Its the first thing anybody says during beaver broadcasts. even the story yesterday of bball legend Bill Walton visiting Craig in his office and the headline has Bill asking “Hey coach, where’s Barack and Michelle?” Oregon State loves that connection because they know it brings them attention. Hey kids, how about a trip to the whitehouse for thanksgiving even though youre not playing a game there? I think its pretty cool, but also isnt sustainable. So if that makes my black ass racist, you can suck my racist dick.

          • Jack says:
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            Hey… I’m not saying you’re as bad as the media.

            But when it becomes the whole argument, it’s just morons wagging their tongues. Yes, it’s a reality. No, it’s not a factor in retaining CR as much as it wasn’t a factor in hiring him.

            The better argument is how Bobby D plays OSU athletics with a cheap stick. CR is not now an established coach, let alone an established winner. He is learning on the job, and our AD is fine with that. We have to accept it because we’re not Resers.

            Given those circumstances and the condition of our program when he took over, CR is about on par with what anyone with reasonable expectations should have had.

            We can turn the rest of your post into a scene from Blazing Saddles.

          • beaverbeliver says:
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            Jack,
            Your use of the N-word is offensive. You suck.

          • beaverbeliver says:
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            Jack,

            I think you owe NCAA an apology.

          • Jack says:
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            It’s reality. I know ncaa isn’t one, but he doesn’t need to feed the nigger-haters either. And I call those people that name because they’re the only ones who deserve that monicker. “N-word” gives them more respect than they deserve, namely none.

            Face it. Some in our fandom are just penis heads who can’t see anything but color. Opening the door for them to direct the discussion is either chumming or laziness..

          • beaverbeliver says:
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            Jack,
            As an african american and as a beaver alum, I find you offensive and I am ashamed that we graduated from the same University. The use of the N-word has no place in this or any other forum. If I was Angy I would ban you. Jack, your care free use of that word is very disturbing to me. Please stop.

          • Jack says:
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            It is an offensive word. And I do only use it in this context.

            ncaa didn’t do it above, but he’s baiting the penis heads when he mentions the “Obama factor.” I’ve heard and seen this argument devolve into racist rants which are just stupid and baseless. So instead of devolving, I’m just going to pre-empt those rants and take it straight to the end result. If those within our fan base want to go there, they now know I’m going to claw their eyes out and strap them on the rack.

            I’m just not in the mood for this shit today. And it’s not like diplomacy has ever been my best trait.

          • beaverbeliver says:
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            Jack,

            You and your choice of words are a discrace to OSU! I hope you get banned by angry! I am sure that you have never had an epithat like that with all it’s intentions directed at you. I have, and it is hateful and demeaning and has no place in any forum, especially a forum about sports. Regardless of how you are feeling or the point you are trying to make it has no use in modern vocabulary. I beg you to quit making excuses and expunge that word from use. As a fellow beaver I am sometimes embarrassed at the way you talk to people on this forum. Today you sicken me.

          • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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            The only “penis-head” who seemed to consider my comment bait was you Jack. Which seems appropriate.

            If the president were Romney and the coach was his brother in law I would have said the “Romney factor.” Does that make me anti-Mormon somehow? Should I have used the “presidential factor” instead?

            Sorry you had a bad day, but it’s no excuse to act like a bell end. You’re better than that

          • beaverbeliver says:
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            No NCAA, he is not better than that. He is only proving that Jack is short for Jackass.

          • Jack says:
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            *long

          • G Joubert says:
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            What are you talking about? nobody injected race into this. Except you. How anyone can claim that BDC’s numero uno reason for the Craig Robinson hire was anything other than CR’s status as first brother-in-law is unfathomable. Let’s face it. Robinson did not have the coaching props to make the leap from the Ivy League to the PAC 12. And now it shows.

          • Jack says:
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            I said nothing of that, and neither did you.

            Precisely what does “name and association” mean?

          • Jack says:
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            Sorry… I forgot to source that one.

            Let’s go back to the very first post on this thread:
            “Hate to say it, but at this point it’s gotta be coaching. He’s had an ample opportunity, and based on name and associations….”

    • Bill says:
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      A strong PG isn’t essential to the system they run but everyone has to be a decent passer. That’s not happening and it shows.

  • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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    I actually thought CR did a decent job back when he had the team playing a more deliberate, slow it down offensive style a few years ago with alot of 1-3-1 on defense. It was boring to watch and they were less talented, but the team was disciplined. Discipline is not something I think of when I watch the current group play.

    • angry angry says:
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      That’s exactly what I saw then and see now.

      • John says:
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        they also lost Jahii Carson because of that discipline.

        Also its easy to slow down the game. We still weren’t playing good d back then, it was simply a lower scoring game because we’d hold the ball on offense for 25 seconds.

        • John says:
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          I just don’t think that was discipline so much as just holding the ball, and hoping the clock runs out while we have the lead.

          Watch the Bennett’s or Sendek and you’ll see discipline. Our game back then was more like when a high school team would play Kevin Love and lose 27-9 because all they did was hold the ball on offense.

          • Jack says:
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            No.

            Watch Sendek’s team last year.

            They’re not much better this year.

            Sendek will last beyond this year, but even Jahii won’t save him in a couple years.

            Carson went because of academics. That is all.

    • ean says:
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      They had some good talent for that style of play. A big man capable of knocking down the shot from up top. Lots of gunners capable of slashing to the baskets. A solid point man in the 1-3-1 and a great baseline defender. Rob isn’t really recruiting for that style.

  • Bill says:
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    A couple things,

    I think everyone is seeing the discipline issues. Players either not believing in the system or not knowing what to do. Not sure what is worse. If he doesn’t have the 5:30am practices, he might want to get back to them. Though it may be too late in the season now.

    The players are growing, but the more I think about it, it’s Coach Rob who hasn’t really made strides. He’s basically the same coach he was when he came. I like the guy, I got to chat with him for about 5 min a while back. Very good man and I coach I would play for.

    The talent level is head and shoulders above where it was when he got here. I expect every non-conference record to be in the 10-2 range and an overall winning record every year. That was not there before. The talent alone should let this team finish in the middle of the pack. The coaching is what’s going to take it to the upper echelons of PAC12 and to the NCAA.

    Here’s what I think it will take to right the ship and finish strong to get to the NIT.

    1. Less Burton unless he learns to box guys out. (Doesn’t matter if he gets the rebound, as long as his teammate does).
    2. Backup players need to start believing in their game, they’ve all played a second late. Can see the them thinking and it costs them. Barton has potential, he’s played hesistant but looked good driving the lane in the ASU game. First time I’ve really seen him take over.
    3. This team is going to live and die with Nelson, Starks, Collier and Moreland.
    4. Work for better shot selections. More motion on offense. Some guys are content to just stand there and wait for their guy to forget to guard them.
    5. More cutting action. The high post can only pass back outside if there aren’t any guys cutting.

    • angry angry says:
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      I think I saw that Moreland is suspended/out indefinitely.

      • Bill says:
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        Ouch, Moreland could be a fringe NBA prospect if he played all 4 years. Just had to really learn to finish at the rim.

      • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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        Coach Rob said Moreland and Victor Robbins were suspended indefinitely for violations of team rules. Robinson said “He’ll be back, I’ve been told, but I don’t know when.”

        Sounds like both were at practice today however. Per John Hunt

    • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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      Your comment about living and dying with Nelson, Starks, Collier and Moreland was evident against asu. Nelson and Starks were shooting turds and Collier completely got mobbed most times he touched the ball because no one had to respect Moreland since he wasn’t there.

  • ScruffyChipmunk says:
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    No one has a defined role on this team. Who’s the point guard? Starks? Nelson?

    Who gets the first look on offense? It should be Collier if he can get the ball down low but doesn’t seem like anyone remembers that he’s on their team.

    Who is going to play defense? Other than Reid, no one wants to give effort unless they go to a wacky zone that lets everyone run around trying to trap (and tiring themselves out).

    Move Roberto to point. Starks should be a shooter who gets picks set for him. First option on offense needs to be Collier. Every damn time. Play a box-and-one on defense and let Reid shut down whomever is most dangerous on the other team.

    Oh, and put Burton on the bench with Angus and Gomis before I walk onto the court myself and do something regretful.

  • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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    Moreland wont play against Arizona. Crappers.

  • John says:
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    1. Craig Robinson. Terrible X’s and O’s coach
    2. Assistants. None have experience, if you have a salesman like Craig as your coach you need experience on the bench to make up for it. Keep Grace, lose the others
    3. Recruiting. The 2011 class devastated us. we had a chance at 3 4 star players and ended up with Challe Barton and the ever injured Daniel Gomis. Since then its been a mess -N’dyiae? Robbins? Olaf? Are we making these guys up or is Jay John doing our recruiting? Look at the roster, Moreland’s the only sophomore or younger player with talent and he was supposed to be a junior before a shoulder injury
    4. We’re oregon state, what do you expect? Winning?
    5. That extension was an abomination.
    6. Craig needs to go. But do we want to go down the LaVonda route again and let TCU give us an 0-1 start?

    • helmsley says:
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      I agree wholeheartedly with the concept of some different assistant coaches. Who is it that has the power to make some changes? I also agree with Angry’s notes about CR’s demeanor. Naturally the camera isn’t on him all that much but when it is . . . and then when it shows the other coaches -no matter what team it is – there’s all this fire, but perhaps that’s because their team is winning. FWIW, Towson isn’t doing as badly as it did last year.

      I really like Reid’s play – he must be very discouraged with some of his teammates.

      • John says:
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        I’ve always found Craig to be engaged in some games, some games be totally disengaged.

        Reid’s been encouraging but for the amount of minutes being HANDED to him I’d like see him produce more offensively – part it is he’s not a 3 point shooter/doesn’t throw up wild spin move hook shots so he doesn’t have a place in our rat ball offense. Seriously though, no freshman under Robinson has been handed more starts – it took JC 3/4s a season to get in, we wasted all of Brandt’s freshman year not playing him. Super practice star Nelson? Didn’t really get much til we suspended 90% of the team in tempe.

        • John says:
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          by handed I mean Collier should have been starting!!!

        • Jack says:
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          Where?

          Pay attention Duckie. You are a moron.

          When you want to play with the big boys, come back with some semi-intelligent notes.

          You are really bad as a troll.

          You really suck.

          No… really… you really suck.

    • osu2008 says:
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      TCU was already scheduled before LaVonda got the axe.

    • Jack says:
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      1. Terrible?
      2, You know the assistants?
      3. Fuck you.
      4. Ok… now I really mean it. FUCK YOU!

      Nothing beyond that deserves a response… fucking Duck asshat!

    • Jack says:
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      If I haven’t said it yet, you’re a fucking Duck.

      Who else is such a moron?

    • Jack says:
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      Never mind.

      Apparently I have already said it.

    • Jack says:
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      Apparently a drunk me could spot a Duck even when he walked and talked like one.

      That’s worth a chuckle.

  • uncanny says:
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    We don’t have a point guard. We don’t have a player who is a court general, can run an offense, and is confident with the ball in his hands. That is the most glaring problem I see. To compensate, Burton plays at the top of the key because he is the best natural passer on the team. The drawback to that is he can’t shoot, can’t dribble drive, and he makes a boneheaded play every now and then that makes you wonder why he even plays in the first place. Starks is a shooting guard in a high school point guards body. He’s the type of player that should be a 6th or 7th man who can come in off the bench and make a couple 3’s when the rest of the team is cold, not a starter and primary ballhandler. Nelson is two slow to be a point guard but he can sure shoot the ball. I think he would benefit greatly if we had a quality PG who Nelson could play off of and be a spot up shooter. As it is, he’s just not quick enough to beat the opponents best front court defender.
    I think our forwards are all solid players but it seems like they don’t know what to do with the ball when they get it. Do I pass? Do I shoot? Do I dribble up to the top of the key and hold the ball? Collier is the only one who seems to have that bull dog mentality when he’s close to the basket. He gets the ball and goes up with it. Moreland and Angus are the two best options for PF and C, so missing them obviously hurts the team alot.
    This has been a very frustrating season so far and I don’t see how we can improve all that much with the current roster. Another season, another sport, yet still looking up at the quacks in the standings.

    • Jack says:
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      I think you’re on point here.

      I checked out when Angus got hurt. I knew we lost our best perimeter shot and our most consistent boarder. Now we just have to see when Olaf can start hitting his shot. When he does, we’ll win going away. Until then, we’ll look like the Charlotte Hornets.

      It happens. And it sucks. It’s not an excuse, but it’s still reality.

      I figure we’ll suck until about Valentine’s Day. Then Olaf will start to hit his shot.

      Then, [your imaginary sky deity here]- be willing, we can make a decent run.

      I do like that everyone young has to play. I like the youth.

      Give me more LMW!

  • GoBeavs82 says:
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    Watched Gonzaga play St Marys last night and then switched over to the end of the game. Watching our team is painful in contrast to watch GU. After 5 minutes, we turned it off —

    When i coached AAU ball, i told the boys that they had to “defend their position”, meaning that I only played guys that would prevent the opponent from scoring. OSU Players are getting time of the court because of their offense. WRONG! Defense wins games.

    Everyone has a good day and a bad day. The coach needs cycling thru the bench early and determining who’s ready to contribute that day and that minute. And then keep cycling, as players get cold, tired, or lazy. CR seems to have his favorites that are getting unearned time on the floor. Improvement comes from the bench (positive reinforcement that hard work leads to more minutes) and from practice (corrrecting, learning, conditioning, competing). Some of the starters need a dose of BOTH.

    • angry angry says:
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      +1
      great comment.
      added “Disinterest in playing defense…to many easy or uncontested shots.” to the post.

    • Jack says:
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      Yes.

      CR should only play players who work hard in practice, not those who laze about and eat peeled grapes.

      ?

      System yes… but laziness is a lazy call.

  • Gdub says:
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    no Moreland again tomorrow. Groan. Arizona is going to be pissed off and very focused. I imagine this one will be decided by halftime

    http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2013/01/osu_basketball_eric_moreland_w.html#incart_river_default

  • osu2008 says:
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    The 1-3-1 worked with Seth Tarver, but when he graduated it wasn’t as effective, although Moreland has shown flashes of defensive prowess at that position. I agree with Ean that we can’t fire CR and I don’t think that we should. However, it would be better to can his assistants, with the exception of maybe Pomeday because he’s the lead recruiter and has picked up some quality players. What CR needs is seasoned coaches with solid recruiting and people skills who are loyal (don’t want a Todd Bozeman issue), but who are good x’s and o’s guys.

    I’ve posted before on Steve Lavin and how he assembled a staff of these guys at St. John’s. I realize that CR cannot do it on his own and he hasn’t had the longetivity that some of the other coaches in the conference have had (Altman, Montgomery, etc.), but this program has been down too long to have this be a “on-the-job training” position. I think Craig should get new assistants and I do think this is going to happen at the end of the year.

    As for players, I like Joe Burton as a person, but I cannot wait for him to graduate as he keeps making the same mistakes a freshman makes. Barton finally put together a decent game last night and maybe he should replace Starks because I was at the game last night and was really upset that he was casting off, especially when they had close to 20 seconds left on the shot clock. Reid and Collier were decent last night, but Devon is getting banged up and I’m afraid he will be the next to go down. Hopefully Moreland will get his head on straight and come back strong. Langston Morris-Walker may have earned a little more playing time and I think Robbins is gone at the end of the year.

    OSU can’t keep firing coaches every five years though, although Jay John had more than enough time to drive it into the ground, IMO. One reason is because OSU will earn the rep of being a “graveyard for coaches” school and no one will want to come here. Another is they may end up in the same dillema that were in last time when everyone kept turning the job down and if they fire CR, who are they going to replace him with? BDC doesn’t exactly have a stellar hiring record. Last reason, I do think that CR would be in good hands with even better assistants.

    Craig needs to install an offense (I really like the motionoffense) and really work on transition offense as well as installing a full-court press. I could never figure out why Burton was not the trail man in the transition offense as he’s a 4/5 and should always be the trail man. Craig can coach (I saw this in years 1 and 2 and a little bit last year), but he needs coaches that can develop, recruit, and teach the fundamentals and help install an offense that works. I thank the current staff for believing and working hard for the program, but it’s time to shake up the staff for the future’s sake.

    • Jack says:
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      The 1-3-1 sucked when Seth was a senior. Sure, he got a bunch of steals, but our defense was worse than the previous year.

      Jared played the baseline during Seth’s junior year. And the defense was awesome.

      Now we’re stuck watching Berto try to learn the system on the fly. He’s athlete enough to do the right thing, but he doesn’t have the defensive mandala some of our youth do.

      We need to let the youth loose.

  • BeaverBeliever12 says:
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    The Beavs have never played man to man well, when they had good defensive runs it was due to the 1-3-1 which has been figured out by other teams and Starks is defending under the hoop now, which is a pointless effort.

    The offense is not much of an offense, it is not even iso, it is simply just dribble around and maybe look at a post player. Collier should see the ball every possession, and if he is forced to pass out just get it back to him. Arizona State had a lot of motion and screens to open it up for shooters, which also opened it up in the lane later on.

    Also we need a player like Jahii Carson (and we should have had him). The Beavs have always lacked a guard that is skilled and a super athlete. The Ducks got that Artis kid, although I was not super impressed with him. Carson is a terrific on ball defender and some of the shots he was hitting at the end were jaw dropping. OSU has not had a guy like that, Haynes was the closest thing and obviously he was not of high enough quality. We need a quick twitch guard that can also handle the ball. Cunningham was never that player, great athlete, decent basketball player, but he did not possess the ability to take over games IMHO, it always seemed like he got bailed out by a lot of foul calls. We need a guard that has the ability to take over a game, in the same vein of a Brandon Roy or Kemba Walker when he was at UConn

    • osu2008 says:
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      I think one of the reasons why OSU has never played man-to-man well is because Craig doesn’t seem to know a lot about it. Early last year, he was doing a radio interview and he stated that he couldn’t believe that the team could get a lot of steals on man-to-man. I have been wondering a lot about CR’s knowledge of the game ever since.

  • John says:
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    “OSU can’t keep firing coaches every five years though, although Jay John had more than enough time to drive it into the ground, IMO. One reason is because OSU will earn the rep of being a “graveyard for coaches” school and no one will want to come here. Another is they may end up in the same dillema that were in last time when everyone kept turning the job down and if they fire CR, who are they going to replace him with? BDC doesn’t exactly have a stellar hiring record. Last reason, I do think that CR would be in good hands with even better assistants.”

    TOO LATE!

    • osu2008 says:
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      Too late for what? I agree with Angry and Ean that firing CR is probably not the best option right now because OSU cannot afford to buy him out. Angry is right that he is a B recruiter and a C+ coach, but with a shake-up on staff, things might turn out better. If not, just cut the losses and move on.

      • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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        Angry is an guilty of grade inflation.

        • Jack says:
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          I think he’s about spot on with a B recruiting and a C+ game. I would maybe argue that recruiting was B- until last year…

          … but that’s just the Lynn Snyder Effect.

      • John says:
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        Every coach in America thinks OSU is a graveyard. Its why we couldn’t get IUPUI’s coach last time around.

        • Jack says:
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          Wtf?

          You’re a friggin’ moron.

          • Jack says:
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            If a John walks like a Duck…

            … they both still have a toilet as a logo.

        • osu2008 says:
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          I think with what CR has done with recruiting and the number of wins (although not fantastic) is more than I thought he would have by now. That’s progress, albeit slow. You really think Ron Hunter would have been a good choice? The guy was a hot-head and would have been Ritchie McKay Part II. I don’t agree with CR on certain things, but OSU cannot afford to get rid of him unless you want to put the football team on a plane to play Alabama, Florida, or LSU like they did when they played Penn St. in 2008 to pay off Jay John!

          I would rather have a mutual parting of the ways with a couple of assistants at the end of the season rather than having to start over with a new head coach. I think CR would be willing to do this if it meant making the program better. I think it would also be a boost to the other coaches at OSU to have a better AD who asks his coaches to take pay cuts but refuses to do so himself.

  • swampass beav says:
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    Craig Robinson is shittier than my ass.

  • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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    What is wrong with OSU hoops is that we have a lousy coach plain and simple. The defense is terrible. Way too many uncontested baskets. D is all about effort and CR does not get or seem to demand it. His choice was a calculated gamble that has failed.

  • Timber! says:
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    OSU basketball is just fine the way it is, thank you.

    ~ Bob DeCarolis

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      Those newfangled horseless carriages are just a passing fad.

  • Numbers says:
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    Problem with OSU basketball, same as football. A failing Athletic Director in every aspect.
    OSU has great head coaches, it’s the Athletic directors job to slash through the cronyism and ensure these head coaches have assistants whose specialties are in contrast to these head coaches glaring weaknesses.

    • osu2008 says:
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      Not just with basketball, but also with football (i.e. Banker, Langsdorf). I don’t think that basketball has been a major concern to DeCarolis and even Mitch Barnhart. May be a bit of a long-shot, but has anyone ever thought that the fundraising for the facility and all the lobbying that CR has done has taken a bit of a toll on him? DeCarolis never really had his heart in getting that facility built.

      I will hand it to Robinson that he is trying to, and despite the hiccups, has changed the culture at OSU somewhat. For instance, before Robinson got here, the facility was a pipe dream and now it should be finished in June. Also, Payton has been in contact more and more with the program and it’s not all because of Jared Cunningham and the Oakland connection, its partially because of CR. I think that CR has had to do this on his own with not much support from BDC and I do think that the AD needs to go because of his inability to provide the coaches with the tools to succeed.

      • Jack says:
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        Welcoming our past players was wholly a Coach Rob thing.

        It sounds REALLY REALLY SILLY to say that nobody before him did anything to welcome past players, but I can tell you that not only were they not welcomed, they were told to stay away on almost every occasion leading up to Coach Rob’s hire.

        I will speak ill of JJ until the day I die because he was just one suck-ass summavabich who made OSU a shit-hole for hoops. There were many worse than him on the court, but he is a LOSER of the first degree.

        I will repeat this so everyone knows where I’m coming from.

        Jay John, or whomever he calls himself, is a lousy coach and less so a person. He is dishonorable.

        Period.

        I still think more highly of him than I do Kevin Brill.

        Brill… you are scum.

    • Jack says:
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      I like where you’re going with this.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    OT: recruiting updates in forum.

  • GoBeavs90 says:
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    This year has been a combination of many different things. Robinson is an average in-game coach, we all know this, but the program has gotten some really bad breaks. Cunningham decides to go to the NBA, this hurt cause he was the only player that can take it off the bounce and get to the foul line, he’s the only guy who can solid 1 on 1 defense and his ability to get steals allowed the team to play faster and get easy transition buckets. Beavers don’t have that. He could make so many things happen that is lacking now.

    Angus Brandt got hurt. He was a knockdown shooter in the mid range and from three. He was also getting better in the paint. He could handle it a little from the outside and teams had to respect his outside shot, thus they weren’t able to pack the paint and driving lanes for Nelson, Moreland and Starks opened up. His injury also meant Burton had to play a lot more and he’s a mess defensively and the more he plays the more mistakes he makes.

    Then the Beavers had the decommitment of Jahii Carson. That hurt. He can ball. He can score and is a playmaker. Imagine him and Cunningham starting with Starks and Nelson off the bench? That right there would make OSU a really tough team.

    Ostling not making it, Gomis breaks his leg and still isn’t healthy. You add up all this and it puts the team in a tough spot. Made an average coach like CR look pretty bad.

    What I think needs to happen is BDC needs to actual spend some $ and let Craig get a veteran coach on his staff who can recruit and is a good defensive coach. It would help Craig a ton and thus really improve Beavers basketball. It makes too much sense, so BDC will never do it, unfortunately.

    Bright side though, Joe Burton won’t be back next season. Feel like the offense can take a step forward and we don’t have to see Burton destroying momentum constantly. Brandt will be back with Starks, Nelson, Collier, freshman will improve likely. What OSU needs is to probably get a couple transfers. Not ideal, but need to get some guys who can come in and help immediately. There’s always some available and the staff needs to see if they can get them. Don’t want to make it a habit, but next year’s team will need it cause of some unfortunate bad breaks in recruiting in prior years.

    • fish6 says:
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      Cunningham opted to go to the NBA because he was unhappy with Robinson’s coaching and he knew the program wasn’t going to change. Robinson wasted his talent. Now Cunningham is struggling in the NBA not because of his lack of talent, but because Robinson did not teach and coach in a way that translates to an NBA career.

      • angry angry says:
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        Source?

      • GoBeavs90 says:
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        Yeah, you’re reaching. If that was the case, why do players that played for Rick Barnes make it in the NBA? Cunningham was a long shot no matter the coaching. That’s just how it is with some guys.

  • John says:
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    Jahii Carson decommited like 3 years ago and was a sophomore when he decommitted. I’d hope we could have come with a back up plan

    Ostling? guy was a piece of trash player, luckily his grades were worse than his play.

    Gomis hasnt been healthy since he was in middle school

    Does Craig even want a veteran coach? don’t think so.

    trading brandt for burton next year will be awesome.

    • Jack says:
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      Shut up Duckie.

      You just sound stupid.

      Your Team will not win it all this year or any year. You’ll hang your hat on the only NCAA championship that wasn’t sanctioned by the NCAA… and was a lesser tourney anyway.

      But you go… umm… girl?… boy?… whatever.

      You have contributed little.

    • fish6 says:
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      Ostling is a bad apple, bad work ethic and poor attitude.

      Gomis will never play.

      Burton spends too much time in the company of underage high school kids for whatever reason. People in Corvallis have been calling him out on it.

      • Jack says:
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        Yeah… Burton is a ped for the same reason DAT is a saint.

        Fucking Ducks suck no matter what they say. How can they be so pathetic?

      • Jack says:
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        And what little was contributed by you Duckies is now in the red.

        You guys really suck at this shit. You would make your own players asses just to prove you were idiots on the interwebs.

        Tell me… what do you think should happen to a football player who gets blitzed, breaks into some woman’s house and gets arrested?

        Let’s make it a compound question.

        What if said player had already had an issue with law enforcement regarding alcohol and improper public behavior?

  • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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    I think a possible solution that would solve the two major problems with OSU athletics( although it would never happen) would be to bump CR into the AD chair and let him hire the new coach.
    The AD position is about raising money and getting resources for the coaches to be successful.
    With his finance background and his political connections he has the perfect skill set for that position. Smart and articulate, he would be a great representative for the school in that chair. He is just not a very good coach.

    For those who think the answer is to hire experienced assistants, let me tell a cautionary tale.
    In 2007 Joel Maturi(worlds worst AD) tried this model when he hired Tim Brewster, an NFL tight ends coach with no experience as even a coordinator, as Minnesota’s head football coach. He had been Mack Brown’s ace recruiter and was supposed recruit us back to prominence. The X’s and O’s
    were going to be taken taken care of by the experienced coordinators he was given the money to hire. What transpired was an unmitigated disaster. The coaching staff became a revolving door as
    literally every year coordinators left. The upshot that has come out was that they did not have respect for him as the HC. Anybody who has worked for a boss that is less than competent, can understand the dynamic. As the assistants changed, the “style” changed and players who were recruited to play in a spread attach were now being plugged into a pro style. Brewster was literally
    “acting” as a head coach without the experience and plan to succeed. I think this is what we have with CR minus the snake oil salesman persona of Brewster. I got a chuckle in the recruiting forum about the QB from Ohio that had a quote from non other than Tim Brewster, who is recruiting the kid for Miss. State. Like a herpetic lesion, he just keeps reappearing.

    • helmsley says:
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      Whatever happened to the new Athletic Department pr/advert person? I probably don’t see much of what’s put out there but what I do see is pretty blah. When I think of OSU’s academic accomplishments which are never illuminated in those in-game blurbs from the 2 participating college teams, OSU comes across as a bunch of students in orange t-shirts after some drawings which invite you to “figure these out.” Crikey, how about the race car builders, an image of the new bb practice facility,a lab interior, some musicians, clips from an intermural (or is it intra?), the new track facility. And, with all due respect to the Greatest Generation, I don’t understand the value of that reminiscence we’ve been subjected to – I don’t even know what it’s about and I doubt very many others do. I fear that new employees who might have a flash of brilliance give up because of the culture that surrounds them.

      Bang on all you like about BDC – until boosters with clout (and I’m not one of them) knock on Ed Ray’s door and diplomatically demand some changes, nothing will happen. All the angrybeavs in the world with their good ideas aren’t going to get it done unless, by chance, one of the boosters with clout reads this site and incorporates them into his pitch.

      • osu2008 says:
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        Ed Ray is just as bad as DeCarolis and is not a big sports fan. He walks around campus like he’s lost half the time. Both him and BDC need to be put out to pasture.

  • FedUpBeav says:
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    The solution is obvious. Make BDC walk the plank NOW! OSU has the most stagnant model in America. Seems like we our the only program across the nation that thinks the ideal way to sell 17 and 18 year old recruits is cobwebbed posters of guys in tight shorts playing in the 30s. OSU’s current image is worse than BDCs wrinkled, droopy nutsack.

  • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    It happened earlier this year than last year…. but I have the basketball team on DVR probation. Instead of wasting 2 plus hours on the live game I can run through it in about an hour after tip-off. When the deficit hits -20 I turn it off and catch the final online. A great time saver and much less aggravating. This method doesn’t allow me indulge in coaching or player technique critism but I, like most of you, don’t know jack about that anyway. JB

    • Kenny Beaver says:
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      PB, I am sorry but your suggestion can’t possibly work for most us. I need a daily source of angst.
      Plus 2 hours of Beaver basketball can generally put me a solid state of depression that I am now comfortable with. My fear is that some day Beaver basketball will improve and then the last decade of behavior modification will have been useless. DVRs and technology in general will be the downfall of us all!

    • steveEbeaver says:
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      I’ve got it down to 20 minutes, check gametracker stats after the game and read the AB game thread. It’s all I need to know. If Moreland comes back and LMW gets more minutes they may move up to DVR probation.

      • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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        LOL DVR probation! Bet that is what the Ducks end up with.

    • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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      It just seems dis-loyal for me to not watch every game all the way through, even if your team is getting completely stomped. Not saying you’re not loyal, though. It’s just how my daddy dun raised me.

  • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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    #not a great day to be a beavergopher

  • Beaver Byte says:
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    Watching NC State vs Duke. If OSU could only play real basketball like these teams. Really like NC State’s Leslie. I think they pull out the huge win over #1 Duke. 🙂 Wish BDC was watching this instead of paying his wife’s annual winter Rodeo Dr. shopping bill with too much of OSU’s ill spent money. Sarah Jean Underwood would be 10 times the AD BDC is. I would confidently bet money on it.

  • Jack says:
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    I just worked nine straight 16 hour days then finally had the time yesterday to watch both games from the last week… even though I already knew the outcomes. I came down with a sinus infection yesterday. I found out a good friend of mine up in Portland has terminal cancer. She’s a big time OSU booster and one of the good people in this world. So that really sucks.

  • slamadam says:
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    i hate coach robinson’s timeout use. he’s almost (almost) as bad as riley. i almost wish he would go back to the princeton offense. the rat ball has gotten excruciating to watch.

  • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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    While the pile on coach Rob is fun and all, maybe we can take the discussion to the next level? There’s been some good games this season that have shown the Beavs can hang with most any team, but then within these games, lapses happen where they drop behind 8 to 10 points, and sometimes they claw their way back, and sometime they don’t. I’ve been wondering what people think about who is responsible for these within game lapses. It seems a mix of coaching and player fault. Nelson and Starks have been inconsistent with their shooting all year. I think Nelson is a head case that coaching can’t fix. He typically will try to turn it on when they are down 10+ or there’s no bench to go to. His perimeter shots will either fall or not (not determined by coaching). Whether he drives to the hoop or not can be influenced by coaching, but he largely is out of control when he does it.

    These team inconsistencies were magnified when the Colonel went down and out for the year. Angus seemed to be the most even keeled out of the bunch, and also provided the on court leadership. The loss of him isn’t coaching, but the coach does influence the teams adjustment to the loss. To me, it does appear that CR is trying to develop on the court leadership. It seems Joe is trying more to be in that role, but maybe he needs more fire.

    So back to the in-game lapses. You can argue that defensive preparation leads to the porous defense, which would fall a lot on CR. Defense also requires more of a mental effort. Sometimes a coach can only go so far with the mental aspects of the team. I can’t comment on the practices, but I do wonder about rotating on defense (or lack of it) and rebounding.

    Not calling time-outs when the game is getting away from them is an issue. In these times, the team seems to want to chase points and close the gap with offense, when I think they really need to get back in it with defensive stops. The result is often easy looks for the other team.

    Some call CR stubborn, but it seems there were offensive adjustments made in tonight’s AZ game when compared to the ASU game. Tonight I didn’t see repeated launching of 3’s by Starks with 22 left on the shot clock like we saw in the ASU game. Shafty also dialed it back, too. Not having Moreland is also killing the team. Let’s also remember that CR can influence whether or not they get a good look at the hoop, but he can’t make the ball go in the basket. There were a few missed lay ups and they could’ve made a few more free throws (Collier 3-7 and Reid 0-2.)

  • mckalk says:
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    I don’t know, I’m depressed. Cunningham is wasting away on the Mavs bench. Brandt is gone. Moreland, who knows? It’s just my opinion, but as a line-up 1-5, Beavs basketball has not passed the eyeball test in the P-12 in ages. You get a Corey Benjamin, Brent Barry, Phillip Ricci or Jared Cunningham, but never enough complimentary players to make any real impact. You get some hope like with Brian Jackson or Roberto Nelson, but they don’t become superstars like you thought could happen or as was advertised. 1990 seems so long ago, it’s really the football pattern redux. I don’t know what will break the cycle. CR is just another mediocore coach with mediocore players in a continuing thread.

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