07.Oct.2017 Worse Coach: GA or Riley?

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I used to think this was a no-brainer…

Disclaimer: in no way does this poll suggest I think Riley is anything but mediocre, and in no way does this pole suggest I want him back. In fact, I’d never watch OSU football again if they hired him.

All that said, I think we’re at a crossroads where we have to objectively wonder which of these two is the worse coach. I even gave a cop out answer of “equally bad”.

Worse Coach: Gary Andersen or Mike Riley?

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  • BeavGirl BeavGirl says:
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    Voted. Equally bad but in different ways.

    Different but serious flaws in both of their temperaments which result in team failures.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      I think they’re the same but on different sides of the line of scrimmage.

      • Nicebeaver Nicebeaver says:
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        Right? Riley was a pretty solid offensive coach, but tried his best to remove himself from coaching that side of the ball while allowing under-qualified assistants to take the reigns, and he completely ignored the other side of the ball while never straying from his coordinator who couldn’t get the job done.

        Andersen does pretty much the same exact thing, but on the opposite side of the ball.

        Can Andersen make personnel changes in the off season? If he shows he has the balls to do his job, then I’ll give him the edge, but right now I have to say Riley. At least he could win the occasional road game.

    • angry angry says:
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      First three posts all nailed it pretty well.

  • angry angry says:
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    BTW, congrats, Beavlettes.

    https://twitter.com/angrybeavs/status/916846996916396034

  • scotty says:
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    Andersen is worse. Riley never had a team with a serious look at 1-11. Andersen is averaging about 2-3 wins per year. Riley’s WORST year was 3 wins.

    As much as I don’t want Riley back, the comparison between him and Anderpants isn’t even close.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      Records are ancillary, and the season isn’t over.

      There were some truly bad years where we just happened to win some surprises or beat equally bad teams.

      • scotty says:
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        You think 3 more wins are coming this year?

        • Jack Jack says:
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          Dude!

          Have you even bothered to watch the other teams?

          There were people here today surprised that USC looks like… wait for it… USC.

          They call thinking OSU is better than they are orange-colored glasses. I want a name for the whiners in the world who think college football is actually a good product.

          • scotty says:
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            I’ll take that as a yes.

          • Big Man Trouserz says:
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            The Beavers are #109 in Sagarin’s ratings. The 11th best Pac-12 team is Cal at #67. If the game were held today, Sagarin would have Cal as a 15 point favorite. Good news, though. Arizona State (#58) is going to be a home game, so the Beavers would “only” be 10.5 point dogs if that game were held today. Are those winnable games? Sure. Should we expect the Beavers to win either of those games? No.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            The computer hasn’t watched those teams play what we call football.

            I honestly don’t know why Vegas has a line on this sport except that people are always looking for ways to give their money to casinos.

          • Big Man Trouserz says:
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            So you don’t know why Vegas has a line except the obvious reason Vegas does anything?

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Touche.

            My point is that Vegas can’t get to a line in college football that will allow them to do this as well as they should like. Because college football is so bad in so many aspects, the variables are just too many for any book to justify the risk involved.

            But you’re right. Just because they make one-tenth what they would on lower risk books doesn’t mean they’re going to ignore that gift horse. They’re proficient enough to stay in the black.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Here’s what I was thinking:
            http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/01/sports/la-sp-college-football-spreads-20111102

            The risk/reward isn’t there in a business where a book can lose their job if it has one bad year.

            I asked previously how we thought Vegas reacted to USC not covering the spread. I think this shows us they make money because people take the favorite a majority of the time.

            Ftr, Stanford won that upcoming game by 25.

  • angry angry says:
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    Canzano is banned here for the most part, but this is interesting:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2017/10/post_109.html

    I told Andersen after the game, “You need to find a QB.”

    He shot back: “We need a lot of things right now.”

    The writing is so poor/vague that I’m not sure if Canzano made that statement, Mannion, or someone else. But someone said that to GA, and that was his response. The correct response “I had a few good QBs, and I sent them packing because I’m an idiot. I plan to learn from that and never let it happen again.”

    GA talks about owning it. He never does, though.

    • Ryan says:
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      Lol! Im glad someone said it to GA’s face. Maybe others are seeing what we see after all.

    • Nicebeaver Nicebeaver says:
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      But Canzano thinks Luton coming back will fix our problems, as if the CSU/PSU/Minnesota/WSU games never happened.
      With Garretson we’re losing by a similar margin. Luton coming back grom injury doesn’t improve anything. The offense was equally boring with Luton playing.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      Never let it be said that dolphin boy can see the big picture.

    • cj cj says:
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      Sounds like ‘zano is in love with Luton. He’s not the answer either, by the way…

    • Sparkyd73 says:
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      Give up already, MM would not have made a significant sufferer be this year. This offense is poorly schemed, and is not a mediocre QB short of being good.

      • Sparkyd73 says:
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        Give up already on GA chasing tyre saviour away, MM would not have made a significant difference this year. This offense is poorly schemed, and is not a mediocre QB short of being good.

      • angry angry says:
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        For the 102nd time (#TryingToBreakThroughTheDensity), from the prior thread, which you could have easily read.

        McM is a symbol of GA’s QB incompetence. I bring him up repeatedly for that reason, not because I think he’s great. As I said a hundred times, he’s not great, but he was the best option for this team. If that is obvious to a Joe Blow like me, it should be obvious to our head coach. “Letting it go” is letting GA off the hook for an awful error that has cost fans a season. So no, I won’t.

        • Jack Jack says:
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          Except choosing a QB who has a foot out the door or is obviously not committed to your team is a worse choice. If MM stays, I might agree with you.

          He didn’t, therefore he proves even Kevin McGiven correct.

          It pains me to write that last sentence, but it’s the only conclusion to your premise. There are other conclusions that can be equally imaginary that include mature communication and decision making. But we wouldn’t be able to make salacious allegations about MM’s character if we chose one of those.

  • angry angry says:
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    I wrote Canzano and told him to ask GA directly and to the point if he butchered the QB situation, and if GA says no, throw all the stats at him (how Kempt and McM were highly recruited, high IQ, dominating with their new teams, McM threw 5TDS in the pac, how Luton had zero offers and awful completion %, etc etc) and see if GA admits anything. Told JC to ask GA if he’s learned anything from his obvious errors. We’ll see if JC has the balls to ask all that. I really hope so. GA needs to look in the mirror. Not convinced you can teach an old (especially stubborn) dog new tricks…but if GA knows we (fans and media) all see his BS it’s a good thing.

    • Beav in DE says:
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      I think you’re missing the point.

      GA is protecting his players with that answer, the same way he does every time he says “blame me and the coaches.” If he thought his QB had the talent, but wasn’t living up to it, there would be reason to call him out in some way. But DG is who he is, so what’s the point in GA saying “Darrell’s just never going to be a PAC 12 QB”? He has to keep his players morale up, and “stick” motivation isn’t going to give him a stronger arm and quicker decision making.

      For all GA’s flaws, that’s good leadership, and probably endears him to his players.

      • angry angry says:
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        Then that begs the question of why he had him #1 and #2 on the depth chart at various times. Either way, there is a very tough question that must be (a) acknowledged (b) asked (c) answered honestly. Or we’re never going anywhere with this coach.

        • Beav in DE says:
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          Because the offensive braintrust failed to find anyone better to add to the roster and GA delegates everything to Kevin, who has fond memories of DG from the good old days in Logan. But again, GA isn’t going to throw Seth, Connor, or Jake under the bus.

          We don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. GA’s “you have to ask Kevin that” answers hint to me that there are tough conversations going on. He’s never going to railroad his guys in public, though. I think once he does that, that’s when we’ll know his days are numbered.

    • cj cj says:
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      I emailed Andersen yesterday asking nearly all the things angry wants asked.
      Also, suggested swapping Baldwin for McG and Collins for Garretson and asked why he let qbs go that are now starting (and winning) for other programs.

      Like the last time I emailed him I expect no answer…

      • EnetaiBeav says:
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        The better thing to email him is a list of good potential coordinators that we would want for OC.

      • Jack Jack says:
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        Why would anyone want SC as QB?

        Are you guys smoking that spice?

  • gobeavers92 says:
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    I want to say they are both equally bad but the data points to GA and it’s not even close.

  • Alex says:
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    Over Riley’s career, Riley’s clearly better. If you look at Riley post-lifetime contract, I think it’s iffy. He was clearly coasting the last couple years.

    • angry angry says:
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      Riley was 93-80
      Andersen 7-23

      So yeah, I think it’s a no brainer if you go on record.

      There are other factors at play, but I’m not sure any of them are enough to propel Andersen ahead of him. What is weird is we are Wisconsin’s poor bastards, and those people who said “be careful what you wish for” appear to be correct. How odd is that?

      Live and learn.

      Follow up question, though: if after this tough part of the schedule (our schedule to this point has been brutal), say they win some games….does it change things? I feel perception can change quickly. Just like it did with the D vs O. People thought the D was the main problem all year when it clearly wasn’t. Then they switched and realized it was the O.

      Same could happen if the team wins vs some of the upcoming bad teams like AZ, Ducks, ASU, Cal, Stanford, etc.

      • Jack Jack says:
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        That’s why the OC has to change, stat. Even if the interim is only the interim, that perception can’t be allowed to take hold in McGiven’s favor. This team is setting up to win a bunch of games next year. And when that happens people will forget all this and breathe easy.

        • Beav in DE says:
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          Really? Behind what QB?

          • angry angry says:
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            Seriously.
            Petras? I mean, I like him, but I’m not sure he can “win a bunch of games” as a freshman…

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Why do you even bother going to QB? That’s just ridiculous.

            Our O and D lines will be much improved next year. You or I could play behind them and win.

            If we get half our targets for the remainder of the recruiting cycle, we’ll have depth on top of talent.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Our DBs will be salty. RB depth will remain solid. TEs will be an upgrade in depth and talent. Young WRs are just plain good now. The backers will turn over due to attrition.

            The only thing really holding us back would be the OC and his cockamamie scheme that resembles nothing that has ever been successful in his career or in my history of viewing college football.

          • angry angry says:
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            Uh…because the QB is the most important position on a team?

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Operative word being team.

          • Big Man Trouserz says:
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            The staff’s targets for this recruiting cycle will have little to do with the depth or talent of next year’s team. A few years down the road? Sure. Next year? “Don’t worry, guys. We’ve got a true freshman backing him up!”

  • angry angry says:
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    https://twitter.com/angrybeavs/status/916857940010614784

    So obvious this dude was a phony.

    • Nicebeaver Nicebeaver says:
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      Oregon is essentially Oregon State right now, with a slightly better running game and a slightly worse passing game. Their defense is better too.

      • Beav in DE says:
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        Someone has a passing game worse than ours?

      • Jack Jack says:
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        I have zero clue why anyone tries to pass against Wazzu. That’s like trying to sweet talk Rasputin.

      • Jack Jack says:
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        And their run game is worse than ours as well.

        Take a look at the last four games for Wazzu. Which QB had the best game against them? Which team couldn’t run for anything against them?

  • Turd Burglar says:
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    GA is TERRIBLE. It’s shocking how bad he is. Somebody needs to ask him if he feels he’s earning his paycheck. I hope he’s ashamed at how much the university is paying him to produce this horse shit. It’s unbelievable.

    This dude makes Riley look like Nick Saban.

  • ST Fan says:
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    Saw your twitter feed about Kicker Owens…spot on , ruined the kid confidence.
    Jake Cookus was the main reason.

    • angry angry says:
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      What did Cookus do?
      I could tell Owens main problems were mental. He kicked right in my area and was an absolute stud. Something got into his head, not his leg.

  • angry angry says:
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    1. Riley might get fired tomorrow.
    2. Ducks game showing how important QB play is…with Herbert in there they probably win this game, or at the very least it’s much much closer. Awful QB play for them.

  • StarcraftSquall says:
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    Which Riley are we talking about, I divide Riley’s tenure into two different parts:

    I believe that the date in question is December 4, 2009. I might be off one or two days. You all know it. It was the last War for the Roses. Before that Oregon State under Riley was decently competitive and had looks at bowls, and the occasional championship push. After that game was lost, it’s like Riley became someone else. A coaster. Someone living on past “success” and felt he didn’t have to work as hard anymore.

    That being said, Oregon State hasn’t looked this bad since the Pettibone era. We’ve been promised a new look team. Well, it’s new, but it doesn’t look very good. Riley at least could keep his team in a ballgame even though he had a maddening habit of finding the most excruciating ways to lose them.
    And, say what you will about his later years, at least he was still bringing in talent that made a difference on the field. What’s Andersen’s best recruiting story so far? Oh yeah, he lost a five star kid in Corvallis who wanted to go to Oregon State and his OL coach blew a layup.

    Right now, this isn’t even close to being a contest.

    I do believe coaches should have four years at a school before being axed. That being said, I do not like what I’m seeing at all.

    • angry angry says:
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      For sure, Riley was done after that 2009 CW. It was all over his face. Wrote about that extensively. You know what people told me? “You can’t deduct that from facial expressions”…just like they said I couldn’t detect chemistry issues from Nall calling Luton “this guy” and with contempt. Okay..

      I don’t say this to pat myself on the back. I say it hoping people learn to spot the obvious and save us all years of agony.

      • Ripper says:
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        I still think you’re inferring something Nall didn’t imply, Angry. I (and many others) have used the “this guy” label in needling good friends. I don’t recall any contempt, although I know it fits your narrative.

      • Jack Jack says:
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        Contempt?

        Did you imply contempt when it came up? I might have watched or cared about the interview if I had known that.

      • scotty says:
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        Don’t strain your arm patting yourself on the back too much, angry. You were right with a lot of us in thinking GA was an upgrade over Biley. Boy were we fooled.

      • BeavGirl BeavGirl says:
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        I do remember you saying that back in the day and it’s totally true. that game “broke” him and it was all over his face and posture. Any drive to win was essentially gone post CW. I’m still glad we don’t have to deal with slumpy shoulder, wet noodle mcgee ever again.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      This is most likely what OSU would have looked like in 1999 if Riley didn’t ditch OSU.

  • angry angry says:
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    Wonder how many commits Oregon will lose over the next few months as they see Taggart is a selfish, Tony Robbins lectured attendee/ fraud.

    • Beav in DE says:
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      If bad on field performance cost you recruits, we wouldn’t have any commits left.

      I read something at one point that said recruits care less about current year results than you’d think because their mindset is usually “it will be different once I’m out there.” Plus, there’s plenty of Nike money left over even after a few 4 or 5 win seasons. Most of those guys were probably more concerned about that than anything else.

      • angry angry says:
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        Agree, but their class is already a logjam.This isn’t going to help. Imagine you have a ton of options and you see Taggart sucks, four other 4-star recruits at your position, etc. I think we’ll see some bail by Feb as Taggart gets exposed.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      It depends on how much Adidas offers.

  • scotty says:
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    Remember to listen to #TPB post game for lulz: http://player.listenlive.co/52371

  • Beavers4life Beavers4life says:
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    GA is worse at putting a solid staff together. GA succeeded Bret bielema(sp?) who went 2-4 in bowl games, lost in big ten championships, and when Ohio state and penn state couldn’t play in the conference championships, Wisconsin did and beat newcomer Nebraska. Then lost in the rose bowl three times!(once to top 5 TCU, once to Oregon, and the other to Stanford coached by Barry Alvarez as interim). So you see, Andersen was riding the coat tails of teams that were playing in Rose Bowls and only made it to the capitol one bowl his first year and went 9-4. That tells me he was mediocre to lousy now that I look back at his coaching tree/history. I didn’t know much about him when he was first hired other than he was coming from a storied program that couldn’t get over the hump. Perhaps he saw Oregon state as a scapegoat to be near family, coach for a school that allows mediocrity, and he was most likely out the door at Wisconsin and he knew it.

    Or, he thought that it would be easier to recruit to the pacific NW than Wisconsin and wanted to get back to coaching on the west coast. Only problem is, our recruiting doesn’t reflect our immediate needs(problem with Riley), always going after position players(Riley), not being on twitter(anti-Riley), has the facade of being transparent, but vague about his answers with different coach speak(similar to Riley).

    • Beav in DE says:
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      What’s so special about Wisconsin? They win 9 or 10 games every year regardless of who’s coaching. It’s like Badgers are just bizarro Beavers.

      It’s pretty obvious who GA is now. The only question is whether he can change.

      • Jack Jack says:
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        Wiscy is Stanford. They set themselves up with the tried and true O that will win against who they should and lose against who they should. If they get a Luck or Wilson, they make a championship caliber run. Otherwise they win at a slightly better than mediocre pace.

        • Big Man Trouserz says:
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          Six 10+ win seasons in eight years is not what I’d call slightly better than mediocre unless you’re Alabama or Ohio State.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Look at their competition, moron.

            Four of those wins were gifted every year because the B1G only played 8 conference games. The rest was getting to play against the B1G west… or legends or whatever.

            Wake the fuck up.

          • Big Man Trouserz says:
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            Until recently, most P5/BCS/whatever conferences have played 8 game conference seasons. So by your logic shouldn’t there be a whole bunch of programs that win 10+ games on a regular basis?

            LOL at calling me “moron” in every reply though. You could at least mix up your insults a bit. I hate to think how much cheeto dust in on your “M,” “O,” “R,” and “N” keys.

          • Big Man Trouserz says:
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            I do agree though that Andersen’s nice-looking record at Wisconsin was based on playing a weak schedule. Not a single impressive win in two years and some really awful and embarrassing losses (59-0!)

            Andersen is in his 9th season as head coach at a D1 school. He has only one season (2012 Utah State) that suggests he’s anything better than a mediocre coach and even that team didn’t beat anybody. He literally has zero impressive wins in his entire career. No wonder puff pieces about him have to talk about how he almost upset Auburn in 2011, or Wisconsin in 2012. Almost. Almost. Almost.

            I look forward to your attempt to move the goalposts in reply. Maybe you could call me “snowflake” or something.

          • Big Man Trouserz says:
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            Sorry, forgot about that season at FCS Southern Utah. I’m sure Jack will use that GLARING OMISSION to validate himself.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Until recently, most P5/BCS/whatever conferences have played 8 game conference seasons. So by your logic shouldn’t there be a whole bunch of programs that win 10+ games on a regular basis?

            I’ll type slowly so that maybe you might understand. I’m talking about Wisconsin and Stanford and how they set a base O that is highly efficient but can be spectacular given a spectacular QB. Following my logic, no other team besides those two or anyone in their respective divisions who have done the same fit that mold. You could bring up Iowa and their mediocrity with Rose Bowl appearances every now and then because tOSU goes to whatever BCS game instead… like GA and Wiscy did in 2013. You can talk about Nebby loading up on 9 win seasons because they’re just a notch below Wiscy and can’t beat Iowa in those outlying years. You can talk about how having less wins in the Pac due to the 9 game slate makes Stanford’s success more impressive than Wiscy’s.

            2012 USU was a good team. I’m not sure why you need to dog them. They were a better team than ours was that year. But that does have nothing to do with this conversation. A one off FCS appearance is also about right for you to pretend you have a train of thought.

            The goalposts are still where they are. Wiscy is Stanford. What are you talking about? Utah State? Some FCS team? Yeah… goalposts.

          • Big Man Trouserz says:
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            I never “dogged” the 2012 Utah State team. It was by far GA’s best season as a head coach. Just pointing out that team beat no one of note.

            I’m not really sure what parallels you’re trying to draw between Iowa’s 2015 team going to the Rose Bowl and Wisconsin’s 2013 team going to the Citrus Bowl (or whatever they were calling it that year), but suffice it to say GA has never lead a team to a major bowl game as a head coach and the outlook for him ever doing so is, shall we say, not good. Maybe GA will luck out and get canned right around the time Urban is looking for a new DC so he can win a National Championship.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            He literally has zero impressive wins in his entire career.

            Sorry 2012 USU team, none of your wins were impressive. But that’s not dogging you. It only means you weren’t impressive while winning any games.

            No biggie.

            … suffice it to say GA has never lead a team to a major bowl game….

            I’m not sure what that has to do with Wiscy and Stanford being very similar but Wiscy being gifted more wins despite rarely finding a real QB. Iowa and Nebby have to do with this. USU, Bama, tOSU and “a whole bunch of programs” do not have to do with that comparison.

          • Big Man Trouserz says:
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            Again, if you can’t understand my posts, get someone to explain them to you. This really isn’t that hard to understand.

            Nice dodge on not knowing what bowl Wisconsin went to after the 2013 season, though.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            You didn’t ask about the bowl, and it would have as much to do with Stanford and Wiscy being similar as anything else you’re talking about.

          • Big Man Trouserz says:
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            This whole exchange is just priceless. Let’s recap:

            Jack compares Wisconsin and Stanford and says they win at a pace that’s “a notch above mediocre” unless they have a QB on the level of Luck or Wilson.

            -I make a reply that objects to referring to that level of performance as a notch above mediocre as the two teams have combined for 12 seasons of 10+ wins and 9 BCS/NY6 bowl appearances in that time (most of those being sans Wilson/Luck). Note that not once did I object to the Stanford/Wisconsin comparison.

            -Jack, being a functionally illiterate troglodyte, for some reason has chosen to interpret this as saying that Stanford and Wisconsin aren’t similar programs somehow. He proceeds to complain about the schedules Wisconsin played.

            -As a tangential remark, I point out that Wisconsin did play weak schedules when GA was coach and further that, over his career, GA has shown zero inability to win big games. Despite it being blindingly obvious to any sensible reader that this is a tangent, Jack objects that this has nothing to do with the Wisconsin/Stanford comparison. I could just as easily object that the original comparison has nothing to do with Mike Riley and Gary Andersen, who are the subjects of this post in the first place. It would be a dumb objection but, well, I think you can see where this is going.

            -In his reply, Jack makes the bizarre claim that GA led Wisconsin to the Rose Bowl in the 2013 season. I pointed out that, no, they went to the Citrus Bowl (Capitol One, whatever). They did play in the 2013 Rose Bowl, but that was, you know, after the 2012 season. That team was not coached by GA.

            -Rather than acknowledge this error, Jack has chosen to fall back on asking what pointing it out has to do with the comparison between Stanford and Wisconsin. The comparison that, as you’ll recall, I never raised any objections to.

            The whole thing is just classic Jack.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            -I make a reply that objects to referring to that level of performance as a notch above mediocre as the two teams have combined for 12 seasons of 10+ wins and 9 BCS/NY6 bowl appearances in that time

            Let’s see…

            Six 10+ win seasons in eight years is not what I’d call slightly better than mediocre unless you’re Alabama or Ohio State.

            That’s precisely what you said. I mean it’s all right there, all of it. I have to read between the lines then revise your meaning after you said none of this. But it’s so obviously there.

            Bama and tOSU are not winning at a notch above mediocre because they feast on the Wiscys and Satnford’s of the world unless those teams have stellar QBs. Go back and look at Wiscy and Stanford when they attended those BCS games. Their QBs had to have sucked in order for my premise to be untrue. They also need to have won the conference, or they are just second fiddle, getting tOSU’s leftovers. That’s not mediocre. But it’s also not great. It’s a notch above mediocre.

            Your attempted revision to avoid Luck and Wilson is cute. One of Wiscy’s Rose Bowls was without an NFL arm in the pocket. But that was because they were third place in their division then went to and won the CCG because 1st and 2nd were on probation. Luck and Wilson give them championship caliber runs, not BCS appearances given to them as sloppy seconds because the real champions are off playing in some national championship game or something.

            But you’re you.

            Then you dog on USU and Wiscy teams that were also decent teams and wander off into some rant against GA for whatever reason. Why? I don’t know. I suppose my reading comprehension is so poor that you’ll make up something you didn’t say just to prove something.

            -Jack, being a functionally illiterate troglodyte, for some reason has chosen to interpret this as saying that Stanford and Wisconsin aren’t similar programs somehow. He proceeds to complain about the schedules Wisconsin played.

            Let’s see…

            Wiscy is Stanford. They set themselves up with the tried and true O that will win against who they should and lose against who they should. If they get a Luck or Wilson, they make a championship caliber run. Otherwise they win at a slightly better than mediocre pace.

            Wow! Nailed it again! You are just on fire today. I am so impressed with my lack of reading comprehension. The first words I type are my premise. You object to the rhetoric for one of those teams by talking about better teams that don’t play in their division. If those teams played in their division, they would win 12+ games per year because they wouldn’t take the easy slate for granted and just play to make their opponent in the CCG look good so they can get a BCS bid.

            -As a tangential remark, I point out that Wisconsin did play weak schedules when GA was coach and further…

            Yeah… blah blah blah bullshit. You went off on something completely unrelated. That you now remember that you accidentally confirmed precisely what I said but refuse to confirm that I did say it is… well… it’s you being you.

            -In his reply, Jack makes the bizarre claim that GA led Wisconsin to the Rose Bowl in the 2013 season.

            I got the coach wrong. In my defense, you were on some unrelated rant about GA. But I can see your confusion since it was I who got it wrong. I meant 2013. I did not say season, but you took my wrong coach to mean season. It is a pretty ticky-tack non-correction on your part. I was wondering why you were stuck on some unrelated season. Bizarre? Not really. Just a dumb mistake, nothing more. Something for you to scream and whine about? Is water wet?

            -Rather than acknowledge this error, Jack has chosen to fall back on asking what pointing it out has to do with the comparison between Stanford and Wisconsin. The comparison that, as you’ll recall, I never raised any objections to.

            Dood! You’re still twisting your panties over this? The similarities of Wiscy and Stanford are the subject, and you’re super duper nit-picking on a mistaken identity by making your own assumptions then amplifying that mistake to proportions out of this world. It has really gotta suck to be you.

            So… tell me again how Stanford and Wiscy do win the big games that take them from better than mediocre to championship status.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Oh… and why do I have to mix up my correct observations about your intelligence? You’re a moron who now thinks of yourself as a victim of an imaginary me having an imaginary conversation with you.

            See what I did above? I took the actual words you wrote to prove that you didn’t say or read the things you imagined you had said or read but decided to write underneath anyway. Who does that? All anyone has to do is scroll up to see that almost none of what you think you said or responded to was what you wrote or read.

          • Big Man Trouserz says:
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            Your definition of playing the victim makes me laugh. You have no idea how much fun I’m having dissecting your nonsense. Let’s get to it.

            Your latest attempt to move the goalposts is now that needing a Luck/Wilson to be more than a notch above mediocre becomes that Stanford and Wisconsin’s QB’s didn’t suck in their BCS/NY6 seasons. OK? News flash, teams that make major bowl games have good players. And while Scott Tolzien may be on the same NFL roster as Andrew Luck, there’s a pretty big difference between the two. So now it’s winning at a pace that’s a notch above mediocre unless they find a Luck/Wilson OR develop an unheralded recruit into a good college QB who goes on to be a career backup in the NFL.

            Again, you made a post that compared Stanford and Wisconsin and said they win at a pace that’s slightly above mediocre. I said that winning 10+ games in six of eight seasons (a statement that applies to both programs) is not slightly above mediocre. You decided that this statement only applied to Wisconsin for no reason, proceeded to throw a hissy fit about it, and then hilariously claim that I have MY panties in a bunch. You’re on a roll!

            Your definition of nitpicking also makes me laugh. Still, congratulations on actually admitting you were wrong about something for once. Of course you had to throw in a passive-aggressive remark about how I was supposedly confused, but baby steps. Complaining about someone spelling “trousers” with a “z” instead of an “s” is nitpicking. Well, since the spelling is intentional, it’s more like attempted nitpicking. Noting that you aren’t even aware of Andersen’s (lack of) accomplishments in an Andersen thread is not. No wonder you think Andersen is a better coach than he actually is. You attribute other people’s accomplishments to him.

            You have some bizarre obsession with claiming I’m ragging on 2012 USU (and now apparently 2013 Wisconsin). I never said those teams weren’t good. That Wisconsin team won 9 games and played in a second-tier bowl game. That USU team won 11 (playing in the WAC) and went to a bottom-tier bowl game. By your own standards that’s “a notch above mediocre.” All I’ve done is point out that neither team won any big games (a characteristic they share with every team that Gary Andersen has ever coached). You can be a good team and not win any big games, especially if you play a weak schedule.

            I’m certainly glad for anyone to read this entire exchange and decide for themselves who’s making salient points and who’s flailing about. It is pretty hilarious how you think the quoted excerpts you put up actually validate your position rather than highlight your inability to comprehend.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Again, you made a post that compared Stanford and Wisconsin and said they win at a pace that’s slightly above mediocre. I said that winning 10+ games in six of eight seasons (a statement that applies to both programs) is not slightly above mediocre.

            You are so close. You choose to omit all that I wrote which gave nuance to my statement. And you refuse to understand it still. But these sentiments are at least correct for once.

            Was that so hard?

            Now, on to the nuances. Stanford and Wiscy set themselves up to beat the teams they should beat and lose to the teams they should lose to given they have a mediocre QB. At Stanford, they haven’t had that problem until maybe this year and last year. So they will win at a better than mediocre rate in those years. Should I qualify that to make it over time? I don’t care. You will probably get hung up about it. But it’s not relevant.

            Stanford happens to have schedules that line up well for them these last two years given how they set themselves up. Wisconsin enjoys this scheduling every year, and has done so for years on end. When a team like Iowa catches lightning in a bottle, they expose this softness. Nebby fan was thinking that Bikey would take them out of the mediocre level of a constant nine wins and never winning anything important. They apparently bought the more with less mantra he was selling. They probably now realize he did mediocre with more in his good years while here at OSU. They would probably love to have nine wins and another fourth or fifth place in the B1G right now.

            The only times either of these two schools can say they were great, not just stuck in limbo between mediocre and great, is when they give their systems over to a truly game-changing QB. Say what you want about Tolzien and Hogan. They’re NFL back-up quality, which means they were good in college. But they weren’t game-changers. Those teams were good teams whose QBs didn’t make mistakes and could move the chains. Wilson and Luck made those great teams ones who could beat anyone in the country on any given day. They got those teams over the hump.

            Behind the hump is a small bunch of secondary level teams who can beat everyone in their conference except for the best of them. They beat everyone they should beat. They lose to everyone who should beat them. This makes them not mediocre. But it also doesn’t make them great.

            Therefore, they win at a pace slightly above mediocre.

            I didn’t read the rest of your post because I imagine it has to do with gender pay inequity in child labor on top of mountains or some nonsense like I forgot to mention something that really doesn’t mean anything to this discussion but makes you excited and hyperbolic.

  • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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    A good question. If GA had a Riley QB, we’d be seeing a team better than most Riley teams. If they had a QB that could pass their way out of a wet paper bag, they would’ve been tied at the end of the 3rd quarter tonight.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      What’s a Riley QB?

      Riley had Mannion and couldn’t do anything with him three out of four years.

      • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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        I want just the QB to plug in this team. Not even Mannion. I’ll take Cody Vaz or Moevao. My point is that’s what missing with this team. This team still wants it. The defense is better than most Banker Ds, and Pierce, Tyner and Johnson want to run.

        • Jack Jack says:
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          It’s not the QB.

          I don’t know how to get this into people’s heads. These same QBs could be playing in a semi-competent scheme somewhere else, and they would be golden. One of them has done so. A plug and play college O is not a hard thing to implement. To make it highly efficient is another thing. But a basic O is not hard.

          This O is both not basic and dumb.

  • K2SO says:
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    It’s starting to look like equally bad for both of these coaches. Just different flaws.

    As frustrating as the Riley teams were at times, they at least improved as the season went on (individual player development). With GA’s teams, I have yet to see this happen, and that’s concerning to me. If the players fail to improve as the season goes on, that points to poor coaching.

    (I’m not defending Riley, and was glad he left when he did. He peaked at OSU, imho).

  • angry angry says:
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    Has Riley been fired yet? Dee was smart to keep the house in Corvallis. Even she had no faith in him haha.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      I think he has the regents snowed. And it’s hard for them to make a decision without letting the eventual new AD have that joy.

  • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    After the votes are counted please award me the title of “worse coach.” I lost in states with more electoral votes.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    First Beaver game in probably 20 years that I did not watch, record or even listen to on the radio. That says something to me personally about this dumpster fire.

    • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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      Wuss

      • Osalum94 Osalum94 says:
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        +5. Endure the torture. It’s sad but I do enjoy the occasional play that shows some improvement. We had good linebacker play by Ugwabu (?). Hodgkin’s looked good. He had a touchdown that should have been reviewed.

        On the topic. Riley in his prime was better. He knew his offense and put several qb’s in the NFL. He won a CFL championship.

        I think Anderson has better character, leadership skills and recruiting but not able to evaluate talent as well.

        GA has potential and could very well right the ship. The problem is that he may be up against superior coaching talent in the Package and schools with easier recruiting routs.

        What we need is the Scott Reuck model. Someone who coaches at a lower level school but knows how to coach. This could be a model for the next offensive coordinator under GA.

        • Osalum94 Osalum94 says:
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          Pac 12. Not package. Gotta love these phones.

        • george says:
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          As I was walking across the George Fox campus today, I got to thinking how that the two best coaches at OSU (Pat Casey and Scott Rueck) got their earlier coaching experience at George Fox. Could we just hire their football coach also? At this point, I cynically think that even Pettibone would be an improvement over Anderson.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      That you haven’t had a life in 20 years?

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      Very funny, you guys kind of missed my point……….this is an unbelievably boring product they are putting on the field. It’s going to really hurt at the box office. This is a bad situation with no end in sight. I’m not buying Jack’s “youth movement”. It ain’t happening.

    • cj cj says:
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      Hey, some of us sat through 28 years of this shit, what makes you any better?

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        Me? Yup, I was there through it also. Even during Riley’s 3-9 season, I would at least follow the games on my phone as my minimum participation if other media was not available and I always DVR every game. Yesterday, just didn’t bother. Read the recap at about 6pm after I returned home, thought to myself, that’s about right.

  • BeaverBeliever BeaverBeliever says:
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    I’m…actually going to say Riley. The amount of unforced errors we had with him was maddening, and he coasted after 2009. He refused to change basically any assistants (last year aside), and we had no hope of being anything greater than mediocre under him.

    Andersen at least is willing to change things up (even though said change-ups have been mostly for the worse so far).

  • angry angry says:
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    Wasn’t a big Baldwin guy in 2014 b/c he ganged up on inferior teams with the Tweener/Pac-12 rejects he got. Still feel that way, but I’d give it a shot. At least he’d have the motivation of proving himself, and the odds of him bringing GA’s baggage/head games seem low. Right? Most coaches don’t play head games like this, right? Gary seems to have some deep baggage/insecurity from being a bad walk-on C as a player and whatever his coaches said to him.

    Maybe I’m wrong. But that’s my perception of Gary after events have unfolded.

    • Beav in DE says:
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      Sounds like a weak “anyone but GA argument to me.” Any new coach is going to be motivated to prove himself.

      Let’s wait and see how his offense is at Cal. They scored just as much against UW as we did.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      Honestly, I don’t know that Baldwin is any better, but then again if GA truly demoted him that might be a sign that he is better than McGiven. Who called the 2015 Civil War game? I always thought that was pretty creative play calling with limited resources although it was against another awful Duck defense.

  • angry angry says:
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    McM had only a mediocre game. No turnovers or team killing mistakes, but no TDs and mediocre stats. “Game managed it”, as they threw only 26 times and ran 51 times. Their RB took over the game it seems. Box score looks a lot like the CW game.

  • Jim says:
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    Riley was better based on OSU record. But, the majority of his wins came during a much weaker conference. I found myself thinking today about how badly BDC screwed the football program. Not news, but was just reinforced in my mind. His conservative decisions destroyed progress the program had been making. The biggest being settling for Riley’s 4+ loss seasons and giving him a defacto lifetime contract. If BDC had not so poorly managed staffing, maybe pressure on Riley keeps him motivated and gets the team to a Pac championship.

    I haven’t given up hope with GA yet, if he makes staff changes. The D has improved since the beginning of the season. Seems to coincide with his increased attention to that side of the ball. Even the O seemed a bit better against WSU and USC. They have improved during their brutal part of the schedule, so the results aren’t any better. I could see 2-3 wins the rest of the way. My concern is that could save the coordinators’ jobs.

    My concern is with Machado’s podcast that GA was pretty involved with QB decisions and offensive philosophy. If so, besides bad decisions, GA is guilty of throwing his coordinator under the bus.

    • angry angry says:
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      That’s a really good comment. Agree with it.
      They could win a few more games, and it will be interesting how that changes mindset. People will see it as progress and McGiven will be saved, most likely…

      I’d give Clune one more year. I don’t think he’s great, but the D always just seemed slightly off to me (got good pressure vs CSU QB, just didn’t sack him…did force the INT with the pressure, etc). A ton of blown plays, but in between all that they were good, so it’s inexperience imo. Offense…different story. McGiven coached the QBs, had input on who was the best QB, calls plays, etc. He needs to go. He is clearly not bright. Also a pretty terrible recruiter. If we could get a legit OC who also recruits well to replace him that would help a lot. GA is of course responsible for all those decisions and the buck stops with him, but since we’re stuck with him for a year, we have to go after McGiven.

      • Jack Jack says:
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        Agreed on Clune for now. Some mistakes, though… hmmm.

        UW 4th and 10 was sort of a turning point for me. I’m not at a tipping point yet. But that one play was bad.

      • Jim says:
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        My trouble with Clune is recruiting. It seems like he needs Andersen to be involved to be effective. So did Sitake. He rode Whittingham’s coattails for years. But, Sitake and the DL coach could recruit under-the-radar Polys and white dudes, and develop them into a stout DL. Utah is still doing this. I don’t see that recruiting ability with Clune and company.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      Haven’t listened to any podcasts, but you have to believe that the OC informed the podcaster in order to believe GA threw him under the bus. He would be the only one informed enough to be an informant.

      Therefore, the OC would have thrown GA under the bus by saying GA threw the OC under the bus.

      • Jack Jack says:
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        Is this incorrect?

        • cj cj says:
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          ummmm…

          • Jack Jack says:
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            What?

            We had someone on the other thread suggest that Ludwig didn’t want to bench Stave because he had the yips when Ludwig clearly said during and well after the fact that Stave’s issues appeared a week before they announced the decision to go with a QB who they correctly identified as a WR the year before and who ended up on D the following year.

            A year later there was a revisionist article on Stave that mentioned none of this. Some dude suggested Stave’s issues began the day after that decision, even though tape on their scrimmage from a week earlier backed up what Ludwig said. Stave was a liability, and the coaches knew it.

            In MM’s situation we have no clue what went on. But what is clear is that choosing MM as the starter would have been the wrong thing to do. What if he was yanked for a poor performance in the first game? He would just transfer? He either had no loyalty to his teammates or he had some rational life decision that better benefits his future regarding his studies. Or he had some familial issue which he felt required his presence. The latter two are valid, mature scenarios. The first is just childish.

            I have no reason to believe MM is immature enough to show up to camp only to leave in a big entitled hissy. He’s been there through thick and thin, continuing to grind and getting to play and get better with his team. He easily could have moved on two years ago if he wasn’t someone who I think has the determination he showed over that time. He finished school on OSU’s dime in an impressive manner, which also speaks to an emotional stability you all don’t want him to have.

            For all we know, he could have been named the starter then transferred anyway.

            In the end, it doesn’t matter because he’s just not on the team anymore. You all don’t wish him well except to use him as some weapon in what may or may not be a valid fight against GA. But we’ll never get to the valid part of it so long as we continue to drill down into this faulty logic.

      • Jim says:
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        Yeah, I don’t how Machado would “know” that. Eggers didn’t seem to think so. That’s why I qualified with an “if”.

        • Jack Jack says:
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          Yes, but you lend credence to unsupported speculation. If you’re going to do that, you need to explain how one could support said speculation, or people just start thinking it’s true.

          • Jim says:
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            Not really. I cited my reference and qualified my statement. It is others’ responsibility to use it properly. I spew conjecture, just like basically every commenter on every sports blog. It’s not really important enough to worry about otherwise.

            It is Machado’s responsibility to accurately report facts.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            It’s just another slow drip in the misinformation that dumbs us down. Ignoring or lambasting it are the only valid responses.

  • ohiobeav says:
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    I would say it is a wash already. Riley’s faults were just so visible after so long, while GA’s were a bit more stealth and mental/attitude/chemistry at first. Now we see his flaws playing out through the roster, gameplan, and competitiveness of the team. GA’s tough talk provided cover and excuses for 3 years while his flaws were eroding the program from within, while Riley just lost steam after 2009 and Gilstrap’s passing.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      Chryst leaving, Gilstrap passing and not being able to take advantage of their legacies left us with 2010 and beyond.

      But the cracks were forming and apparent during those years. Winning just masks the mistakes.

  • Big Man Trouserz says:
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    Andersen’s reputation is basically due to a single season: 2012 at Utah State. Without that season, he never gets the Wisconsin job. He doesn’t have anything that could be considered a signature win (no, beating a 4-win Duck squad doesn’t count). Halfway through Year 3 at Oregon State, here are the facts:

    -The Beavers only win came by three points against a Portland State squad that is currently 0-5 (PSU’s closest game).

    -Against FBS opponents the Beavers have been outscored 238-81.

    -Their closest game thus far against FBS opponents was a 28-point loss.

    It’s hard to see any conclusion other than Andersen being completely in over his head as coach at a P5 school.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      Incorrect yet again.

      GA took a shitty team that was bad for the G? level and made them into winners. Alvarez looked at the O scheme, the balance and the highly successful run games USU had over time and thought that would translate to a Wiscy which wasn’t stuck in the doldrums of hoping for some stud QB to show up every now and then to get them over the hump.

      I was susceptible to the same, thinking that O would be implemented here.

      -I’m pretty sure we know scors

      You might be right for once. It is hard. But I’ve seen people jump to conclusions and do the hard work of supporting those conclusions over time regardless of incoming data.

      So I keep an open mind about the actual conclusion. That’s not hard. Not openly spewing half-baked conclusions because I’m artificially upset about a game is hard.

      • Big Man Trouserz says:
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        “GA took a shitty team that was bad for the G? level and made them into winners.”

        So did Brady Hoke. Want to hire him? Even a coach who had sustained success at a smaller school is no sure thing at the P5 level. Coaches who get their promotions based on one or two good seasons have a poor track record.

        If data comes in showing GA is anything other than the coach he’s appeared to be for the majority of his career, I’ll revise my conclusions.

        And I’m hardly upset about the team basically performing as expected today.

        • Jack Jack says:
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          Are you talking about SDSU?

          They were not a shitty program that was built by him. If you even have a minute shred of college football history in your obviously limited skill set, you would know that SDSU has been good or great on and off for decades.

          If you’re talking Ball State, I pity you.

          • Big Man Trouserz says:
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            Your reading comprehension issues aren’t my problem. Find someone to explain my posts to you, because I’m not going to spoonfeed you.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            So no sources, links or even facts?

            That makes sense.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      It doesn’t get mentioned much and probably gets confused at times, but keep in mind that in 2012 Utah St. was in the WAC and not the MWC. GA should get props for the recruiting, but they dominated the WAC because they had two NFL players at key positions in Bobby Wagner and Robert Turpin and added some really good (power 5 level players) in guys like Keaton and the Vigil brothers. They also had a couple of burners a wide-outs (forgetting their names), so they were not just a power team. It is not incorrect to say that GA has not achieved that level of success again and once joined the MWC it’s been steady decline with Wells leading to 3-9 last year.

      • Jim says:
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        Good point. Also worth pointing at that he seemed to have a quality OC in Wells, who made DG look pretty good.

        Unless he just gets burnt out, I will always trust that the defense will be fine under him. If he admits (at least to himself) that he has messed up with his management of the offense, and brings in a strong coordinator this offseason, he can turn it around, I feel.

  • Bill says:
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    Wow the pendulum has swung ridiculously far to the otherside. Didn’t think that would happen so quickly since there was so much love for GA early on in his tenure.

    Still believe the biggest issue is the inability to make a difference in recruiting. Riley’s last class or two were real duds and GA has not been able to improve on that. Sure he’s signed some highly ranked players but really only Wallace has made it to school and yet he can’t make it off the scout team.

    He has not made any quality signings for the offensive and defensive line which is where the team could really use the help. Only one of the starting oline was signed by GA. Should always have at least one or two quality lineman in each class on both sides on the ball.

    I think there will be some changes in the coaching staff next year because the recruiting really needs to pick up if GA wants to continue to be a head coach.

    I was going to compare GA to Rich Rod in AZ since they seem to be in a similar situation but forgot that even RichRod made it to the PAC12 title game a few years ago.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      The herd thinks independently, as the herd is wont to do.

    • Beav in DE says:
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      It’s not a talent deficiency.

      And how many of our best players are GA recruits vs MR recruits?

      Pierce, Hodgins, Morris, Crawford (all freshmen or sophomores)
      Nall, Hungalu, Vakameilalo, Willis (kind of a reach on some of these)

      It’s not like GA ran off a bunch of MR-recruited world-beaters.

      • Bill says:
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        It is a talent deficiency. The best players on the team would hardly be the best players on other PAC12 teams.

        GA was widely expected to improve recruiting. That hasn’t happened.

        • Beav in DE says:
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          GA has had two recruiting cycles, so his guys are all still underclassmen. They’re still the best players on the team, better than MR-recruited upperclassmen. How is that not an upgrade? It hasn’t been a big upgrade, but I still firmly believe GA’s 2-3 star guys are better than MR’s.

          I’ll agree with you on defensive line recruitment. That has been pretty weak thus far, partially because all the DE’s keep getting turned into LB’s.

          • Jim says:
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            That’s why they needed Sitake and Tuiaki to stick around. They could find some DL gems.

            I wonder if they would come back. BYU is a dumpster fire under Sitake.

    • Big Man Trouserz says:
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      The thing is that none of GA’s problems are new. That’s why I didn’t buy into the hype in the first place, especially when it was clear Aranda wasn’t coming along (I do like GA’s lie about not wanting to bring him along though).

      • Jack Jack says:
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        To summarize:

        You thought this exact thing was going to happen, and you believe it will continue to happen. You think what is happening now has always been happening. And you think OSU not being able to pay Aranda more than Wiscy turned GA’s and DA’s statements that it was probably best for DA to stay at Wiscy a lie?

        I don’t want to get caught in some randomizer about how Florida State has a lacrosse team that practices on Tuesdays. Just making sure the above is what you’re saying.

  • Beaverbill Beaverbill says:
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    All this arguing. Can’t you all see? Hire Riley to be co-coach so we have one complete coach… maybe.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      I would say hire GA as the DC, Riley as the OC… and Bobby D could come back to delegate everything at the lowest cost possible.

      • cj cj says:
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        Dam straight!

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        I would say they will both be memories from a past era in a couple of years when Riley is retired and GA is back as an assistant with Whittingham.

  • zenbeav zenbeav says:
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    https://youtu.be/xdRlrcyIRZU?t=3m32s

    “Opportunities to kick a f*ck…excuse me… a couple field goals.”

    lol

  • Jack Jack says:
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    I almost forgot.

    angry is completely correct about a coach who is socially deficient in terms of tech. I don’t care if it’s snap or chat or twitter… or snap or chat.

    Someone who is proficient at that stuff can fake it for you. It’s not like we haven’t already seen that. The human touch would be better now that that form of communication has opened up quite a bit in terms of NCAA regulations.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t every point of contact a positive for our coaches?

  • Jack Jack says:
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    And if you didn’t catch Buffalo against whatever Michigan team they played, you missed a hoops game.

    • cj cj says:
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      Hoops game….Western Oregon (D2) beat Simon Frazier yesterday….82-21. Yes, it was a football game! WOU is now 2-3. They are as inept as OSU which says something about Simon Frazier…

      • Jack Jack says:
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        Simon Fraser only moved into NCAA football a couple (?) years ago. Did they get called for a bunch of illegal participations and motions?

  • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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    Riley was lucky enough to coach in one of the weakest PAC 8, 10, 12’s of all time. Looking back that’s the only reason we even sniffed at a rose bowl.

    Riley seemed to not care wtf his players did after the season ended. Like a “see you in the spring. Hope you’re all still around.” A lot of really embarrassing legal problems took place when he was in charge. Surprisingly Mr. Aww Shucks had some teams that went toe to toe arrest wise with everyone in the country.

    Helping sweep gang rape under the rug (or being too busy to care) is where he completely loses me.

    I’m frustrated as shit with the offense (McGiven is seriously the worst) but still respect the way GA’s teams handle themselves off the field.

    I still prefer GA.

  • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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    Gum chewing: Advantage Riley. Not even close. He can still bring it. Chewing up a storm last evening while his former OC kicked the shirt out of him.

    Grinning and goofy smiling after a beat down: Riles again. See last night.

    Visor wearing: GA is in a league of his own…….. women’s tennis league that is.

    Catch phrases: GA is top five in the country. No contest.

    Asst Coach Nepotism: Draw. Who would have thunk MR could be equaled?

    I think Jack is confusing a “youth movement” with a “bowel movement.” Team is a steaming pile.

    • Big Man Trouserz says:
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      Jack is confused about a lot of things.

    • BeavGirl BeavGirl says:
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      Jack also feels that his opinions are facts. Everyone else’s opinions are just “incorrect.”

      • Jack Jack says:
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        I don’t claim my opinions to be facts. I claim that the herd’s opinions are opinions which are unsubstantiated. I further explain that the herd’s opinion in MM’s case is character assassination.

        It’s like the flag on football helmets or clothing or coffee cups or improperly attached to their cars being disrespectful. People think that intent justifies that disrespect. They even argue that intent makes it not what it is, disrespect as written explicitly in US Code. it just is what it is.

        You don’t get to call someone an entitled wuss who screwed his teammates for no reason other than you have an unsupported narrative you want to push. On top of that, you don’t get to say you’re not calling that someone an entitled wuss who screwed his teammates. It’s what you claim. Own it.

        • JaxLuv'sTRUMP & is a LOON JaxLuv'sTRUMP & is a LOON says:
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          Who’s the entitled wuss? JAX is!! Hip hip horray!

          • Jack Jack says:
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            At least I know if you’re saying it, you don’t really think you’re saying it.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      Why do you credit me with the quote “youth movement”?

  • scotty says:
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    On the plus side of things, Seth Collins is becoming one of my favorite players. Sure he’s good for a bonehead penalty once in a while, but he’s athletic and has the fire and passion that’s sorely needed on this team.

  • StarcraftSquall says:
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    Hey, is Nick Saban sick of the Alabama media blitz every year ye The? Come to Corvallis, where the journalists never ask hard questions anymore (especially since Gina left OLive) and you can pretty much go about your business without an idiotic amount of scrutiny…

    Tongue-in-cheek, I know, but the point is… Does ANYONE who has any influence hold this administration or coaching staff responsible for the product we are getting on the field?

  • GA Worst OSU Coach Ever? says:
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    Based off pure numbers GA isn’t even sniffing Pettibone level performance. Pettibone had two Civil War victories in Eugene where team was mentally focused for 4 quarters. Pettibone’s defenses overall were better too with more consistent effort displayed.

    GA’s numbers are on par with the worst of all time at Orrgon State. Right now he would take the cake as worst OSU coach ever just ahead of Avenzanno. GA has just horrible offensive production. If he even thibks of keeping McGiven after this season then his Utah loyalties trump any and all consideration of wins being important to him. He promised conpeting for Pac-12 Championships with a disciplined, cohesive team and instead he has regressed to seriously competing for the worst HC ever at Oregon State.

    His AD bud Barnes seems little better. There has been no statement of vision in his first 6+ months on the job. From a alumnus perspective all it seems he cares about his cashing his sizeable paycheck. He and GA are peas in a pod in that respect.

    • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      Thank you for recognizing my overall coaching awesomeness!! It’s been a long time coming but my record at OSU is finally getting the respect it deserves.

      I would be willing to come out of retirement to regain the glory years but my phone calls to the new AD are never returned.

      An autographed photo on it’s way!!

      PS: There is a $75.00 charge for shipping and handling

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        Speaking of a boring offenses, your “flexbone” produced all of 136 points once in a 11 game season. You sir, have a hallowed place along side Fertig and Avezzano in Beaver futility (waiting for Gopher’s innuendoed response here), only slightly elevated because you had the good judgement to hire Rocky Long as your DC.

        • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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          Thank you. I think there is some high praise in your kind comments. You too sir, will receive autographed 90’s Beaver memorabilia!! Your lucky day.

          PS: There is a $100 shipping and handling charge.

          • orangejulius orangejulius says:
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            S & H were $75, what’s with the price hike?

  • ColdBeav says:
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    I think GA’s failure revolves around one position.. Quarterback.. Under GA they’ve never identified/developed the right QB for the always changing offensive philosophy.. GA can’t stick to a plan.. He just throws as much mud at the wall as possible, hoping something sticks..

    I said this a few weeks ago, but I believe its worth saying again… McM would have sucked in this BeavRaid (whatever this is) offense too.. Luton handing the ball off 60% of the time to the stable of strong RBs we have and then using play action to take the top off defenses made some sense.. Not saying Luton is good, but I get the logic..

    BUT THEN THE CSU GAME HAPPENED.. Arguably the worst offensive game plan in the history of football.. GA, in a kids first start, on the road, in a brand new stadium, at altitude, ALLOWED the offensive coordinators to pretend like Luton was Aaron Rodgers..

    I understand everyone’s grief with McGiven and whoever is co-coordinator on offense, but the bottom line is GA is the HEAD COACH and he is letting those numbskulls develop and implement one of the stupidest offensive strategies I’ve ever seen..

    The CSU game plan.. That, that could happen at the Pac12 level, by itself is a fire-able offense.. and we’ve had a bit of a shell shocked team ever since that loss. The identity that they had developed at the end of last year was intentionally abandoned before the season even started.. Unbelievable.

    • Doozeldorf says:
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      It has to be deflating to the team to plan and practice an offense that they are told will score a bunch of points and win games, then in game 1 they realize it won’t even work against a Mountain West team.

      • ReverendBeav says:
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        Did you even watch that game? They had 456 yards of offense. It was the 5 turnovers that cost them that game not the offensive scheme.

        • Jack Jack says:
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          Ahhh… the old chicken and egg thing that only comes up when a flawed scheme is attempted.

          • ReverendBeav says:
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            Haha… I’m just saying I doubt the game plan included 2 fumbles, a tipped ball and a receiver falling down. But if the coaches are as bad as everyone on here says they are, maybe that was part of the scheme.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            I think coaches forget to bake the TOs into this type of scheme. They think that playing a faster, more precision game with more high risk plays and just more plays in general means that the same percentages are at play.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    Holy shit, UTEP brought back Mike Price as the interim head coach. DE put down the Bloody Mary and start calling the junior colleges, Oregon State has a job for you!

  • youngorst says:
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    Gary Andersen is significantly worse than Riley at his peak. The Riley of 03-09 was an average coach too loyal to his guys and his system, the Riley of 10-Present is garbage and probably just as bad as Andersen.

    Don’t want either coaching my program.

    Its time OSU takes a risk and goes out and finds a young up and comer who can sell the school and relate to recruits.

    • Ryan says:
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      I agree on finding a young coach to lead the team. But who do we go after? Also who will pull the financial trigger to make it happen?

      • Jim says:
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        God, I hope people don’t start bringing up Jonathan Smith. I get the feeling he’s Washington’s Mark Helfrich. Under the halo of an elite coach, looks okay. Running his own program, yikes. I certainly don’t see him bringing in the brutes needed on the lines.

        • youngorst says:
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          I’m not bringing up Smith but what is the basis for your opinion?

          Because I am pretty sure you could literally make that argument for any and every assistant coach in college football.

          I have no clue is Smith will be a successful head coach but honestly neither do you. Frankly Helfrich could still find success if he learned from his mistakes on Oregon.

      • BeaverBeliever BeaverBeliever says:
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        Alex Grinch would be an excellent hire in my opinion. Johnathan Smith wouldn’t be bad, either.

        If we hire either of them though, we need to give them at least five years.

        • Jack Jack says:
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          Why? GA only gets 2.5.

          Keep it real.

        • youngorst says:
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          You don’t guarantee anyone 5 years. That is a good rule of thumb but that assumes you are seeing progress. Keeping guys when its obvious they aren’t the guy does more damage than cutting bait.

  • Jim says:
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    Though unlikely, things could be lining up for a return of Mike Riley… as an OC. GA needs to can his OC by the end of the season. NU needs to can Riley by the end of the season. OSU needs a solid QB coach and an OC with a true offensive identity. That’s exactly what Riley offers. And Riley would love to return to Corvallis.

    This isn’t totally unprecedented. Whittingham did something similar with Dennis Erickson. At that point in his career, DE wasn’t looking for a return to the HC level, so there was no internal power struggle. MR will be at the same point in his career, I believe.

    GA provides the big boy pants speeches for motivation and keeps an eye on the defense. With Riley, GA recognizes he is out of his league on the O, so hands over the controls. Petras is Riley’s type of QB. Riley can still pull the QBs and WRs out of CA to make his offense go.

    I think it could work. And at this point, with so little to lose, I’m just like, f&*k it, give it a try.

  • JaxLuv'sTRUMP & is a LOON JaxLuv'sTRUMP & is a LOON says:
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    How about no Scott…

  • marcodg marcodg says:
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    Lately I’ve been hearing laments from the NFL that college football no longer produces the material necessary for a good product, especially on the offsensive line and at quarterback. What if OSU ditched the whole air-raid/spread thing and went full on pro-style. And, sell that to the recruits in those positions.. The beavs would be a rarity and difficult to defend as their opponents would never see it in practice. Full back, tight end, QB under center (mostly) and two wide-outs (or 3 and remove the FB). It would be our identity.

    Would that work? I actually liked Riley’s offensive philosophy despite that fact that he couldn’t implement it in his later years.

    • Jim says:
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      Please see above for the perfect plan!!!

    • WFO WFO says:
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      Yeah, because selling a pro style offense worked so well for Simple Jack. The blue chips were lined up out the door.

      A college coach’s job is to win college football games. Fuck the NFL. Some ridiculous complex playbook that takes a QB 3.75 years of eligibility to learn is a recipe for one good season every four years.

      • marcodg marcodg says:
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        I was only an idea, after all. I will say in my defense that the complaints from the NFL are fairly recent and that I don’t believe OSU was ever “sold’. I felt like it was more “you wouldn’t want to go out with me, would you?” Which I can tell you from personal experience is not a good line.

        What I would like is an OL coach with an NFL pedigree. Someone that can go into somebody’s house and say “I know what it takes to get there and these other programs are teaching the wrong things.”

    • youngorst says:
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      I don’t think you play an NFL offense but I do think instituting a power run offense with man blocking schemes along the offensive line is undervalued and something OSU should look into.

      • Jack Jack says:
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        ^^^this^^^

      • Bill says:
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        How about getting good offensive lineman and run any system they want.

        • Beav in DE says:
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          Your highest paid assistant, behind your coordinators, should be your OL coach. More bang for your buck than any other position on the field.

        • youngorst says:
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          You can teach smart 2 and 3 star OL to be good man run blockers.

          Finding the talent to be good at zone blocking and strong pass blockers is simply more difficult.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            I’ve heard a couple top notch PSAs lament the school they wanted to go to doesn’t just put a hat on a hat. I get the impression the good all-around linemen would rather just drive block when they’re not on pass pro.

            The only zone blocking I really love is the power sweep. I wouldn’t mind a mix in that way.

    • Burritodam says:
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      Screw offense. Only recruit defense and special teams. Dare the other offense to move the ball. If your D cannot get td or fg then punt and dare again. Fire the oc and save $. Everything would be kosher because the teams identity would be GAs identity.

      • Jim says:
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        Solid logic and great out of the box thinking.

      • Burritodam says:
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        Thanks. Golly, if you’re not too into depth you could just give out enough schollies for the travel squad and not worry so much about giving away schollies to regular students.

        • Beav in DE says:
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          You could give away full tuitiion at every home game. The atmosphere would be electric with all those kids filling the expanded student section. Your home record would improve drastically.

          • Burritodam says:
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            Maybe we should screw the stadium too. Gonna need more dorms and students to pay for this team. Play all games away. Or in Gill, which better suits our noodle-arm qbs.

    • Beaverbill Beaverbill says:
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      In order for pro style to work you need pro players at positions. Unless you are an USC or Alabama you won’t get those blue chippers to make it work. It was one of Riley’s issues in making it work.

  • marcodg marcodg says:
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    One only need to look as far as the Seattle Seahawks to see a team with a great QB but a cluster of an offensive line to see how important an OL is.

    • angry angry says:
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      3-2, 1st in their division?
      I’d take it.

      • Chris says:
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        Yeah, the seahawk reference I’d say is a example of why qb is so important

        • angry angry says:
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          Yep.
          A great QB can make up for a deficient OL. Tom Brady is dealing with that for once, too, and handling it pretty well.

          And no, I’m not saying OSU should be expected to land a Russel Wilson or Tom Brady. I know some will try to deduct that, creating a logical nightmare/argument.

          • Beav in DE says:
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            But competent offensive linemen are >5x more common than great QB’s.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            If you swap Brady and Wilson, Seattle is undefeated, and NE has probably one win.

            An inconsistent run game led by RBBC at both places has led to competent OL playing poorly. None of their opponents respect their run games. Seattle has a D who can overcome a lot of this weakness. NE’s secondary sucks.

          • Lancer says:
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            Surprised with the use of Seattle as an example; I’d offer the team they beat yesterday away as more closely resembling OSU, and indicative of potential directions OSU might consider taking.

        • Jack Jack says:
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          Wait.

          The Seahawks D is great and keeps them in games because the QB makes a difference?

          Both failed at Tennessee, but Wilson has not been very good this year. I suppose you could blame the RB issues. But RB depth doesn’t make him throw poorly to open players. I’m sure he’ll get back on the horse sometime this season. But I wouldn’t inflate his contribution beyond what it has been.

          • youngorst says:
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            You must have missed the Colts game, Wilson took over that game.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            The Colts have missed most of their own games this year.

            But hey… they’re not Cleveland.

  • Nicebeaver Nicebeaver says:
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    I think the Beavs actually put a mostly complete game together this weekend and beat Colorado at home. Fortunately it won’t take a complete game to beat Colorado.

    • angry angry says:
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      Definitely a winnable game, AKA a “McGiven extension”.

      • Chris says:
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        I personally will not put a dollar on the Beavers to take any game. Period.

        I agree with them possibly winning this week, and hope they do. But I also could see a situation where the Beavers lose by 35. Say 42-7. 45-10? But either way I wouldn’t bet on them

    • Beav in DE says:
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      I don’t see the offense being able to manage more than 20 points or so, unless we’re depending on the Blind Squirrel Theory.

      • orangejulius orangejulius says:
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        Lightning in a bottle

        • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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          Now if it was white lightning then……… On second thought that’s probably what I should be drinking on Sat…. But I don’t drink.

      • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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        Watch your nuts boys!

        • Jack Jack says:
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          Were there further instructions, or is this all we do for now?

          • Jack's on crack again says:
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            Nope you just sit there and keep your eyes on your nutsack. If you’d be like you can log off first

          • Jack Jack says:
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            If you’d be like you can log off first… what?

            Oh… I get it.

            Leading by example led you to log off in the middle of your sentence.

            Smart.

  • AKBeaver AKBeaver says:
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    Nicebeaver, didn’t you mention thinking Agau was going to commit? Was this opinion or inside info?

    • Nicebeaver Nicebeaver says:
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      I was told we would get a commitment from one of our visitors, so I made the assumption it was Agau, since he seemed like the guy at the time who was showing most interest. I still think we might land him.

  • Nicebeaver Nicebeaver says:
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    Miami Dolphins OL coach took a video of himself snorting coke while whispering sweet nothings to his girlfriend.

    https://twitter.com/OllieConnolly/status/917230071831781376

  • Chris says:
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    Just watching the Arizona vs Colorado game. I feel like how that game looked as an offense, is exactly what Andersen was talking about looking like when he first took this job.

    Power run from a spread offense. Making the defense second guess who is getting the ball thus making the rb better. Than throw in occasional throws for typically big yards.

    I think Andersen needs to take arizonas qb coach and make him oc. Or take a position coach from a school that does this and give them the reigns to run that type of offense. We need to have a qb run as an option with the level of recruiting that will happen here. We don’t beat sc for receivers and qb and ol. We have to have every option as a weapon. We just need a oc who can develop the continuity and game planning to put this into action.(or a head coach that knows which direction we are going offensively?)

    • WFO WFO says:
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      Power run from a spread would be sweet. I’d like to see them recruit bigger beefier fuckers like Moevao/Masoli types. Can make enough throws, can run the option but can actually run and take the hit.

  • calibeav says:
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    I wonder if GA told Kempt the same thing he told Marcus and Del Rio?? Look kid you’re never going to play here.. You throw the ball too well. We need a guy who can not throw the football at all for us under center. You just don’t fit the bill.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      Under center?

    • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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      The Jerry Kill QB method.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      DID Kempt throw the ball well while at OSU? Or has he improved recently? Was his big game an anomaly at this point or part of a progressive trend? Asking because I don’t recall much about him.Heard others w/same issue

      • Jack Jack says:
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        He’s not a dual threat in any way, and he was too young to have any confidence in 2015 or to have any roots in Corvallis.

        He was buried on the depth chart at ISU as well. But they schemed the game plan to include his skills and those of a QB who could run. And they platooned the two of them strategically. We’ll call this QB1 and QB2. If they continue that path, they might see some success this year. They threw OU for a complete loop in the second half of that game.

        But I’m going to say the ISU coach is going to give Kempt all the reps and scheme for him only. And that will lead to doom for all. Although, he’s always had nice touch on a good arm. So handing the ball to him could be an up and down season, if he can stay on his feet.

        • ObjCritic says:
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          Just read about the OU game. Apparently he’d only thrown 2 passes in game time the past two years. He must have had a blast in Nirman, good for him.

          Is Campbell the real deal as OC and/or head coach? Sounds like he put together s great game plan.

          • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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            Yes, he seems to be the real deal. Successful MAC coach, but time will tell if that plays out in P5.
            He was a hot candidate when they got him. Sort of a surprise he went there.

        • Burritodam says:
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          Kempt was a teammate of tyner at aloha before his family moved to OH. ESPN rated him as a recruit with good delivery and reads.

          Didn’t watch the ou/isu game, were kempt and lanning on the field at the same time?

  • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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    A Rodgers is amazing.

  • ISU Fan says:
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    Thank you Beavers for the 2 Transfers

  • ISU Fan says:
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    …any more ?

  • Beav in DE says:
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    More from Fooled by Randomness. Taleb’s outline of “randomness fools” reminded me of many football decision makers:

    -A tendency to get married to their positions: Staffs that insist on forcing their playcalling philosophies rather than adapting to the talent at hand (or competition at hand, depending on the differentials presented.)

    -The tendency to change their story: justifying sticking with bad plans for reasons that change week to week.

    -No precise game plan ahead of time as to what to do in the event of losses: The “adjustments” made when a team is losing or has lost games often seem like kneejerk reactions that simply involve taking the opposite course of what was originally done. This is the result of superficial root cause analysis and not understanding that results have a wide variety of inputs (“it didn’t work with a dual-threat QB, so let’s try a pocket passer.”)

    -Denial: “We just didn’t execute” is the refrain of the losing coach. He rarely admits that the plan didn’t set his players up to execute in the first place.

    At the end of the day, football is a world of small sample sizes. If each season is a data point, coaches get very small sample sizes with which to work.

    Careers are made based on results that were more the product of highly beneficial noise than truly well-deserved outcomes. Coaches often become convinced that that beneficial noise was the result of their philosophies and understandings, rather than random events, so they insist on forcing their round pegs into square holes for the rest of their careers.

  • FatDog says:
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    This just in:

    October 9, 2017

    Oregon State University community members,

    I am writing to inform you that Vice President and Director of Athletics Scott Barnes announced today that OSU and head football coach Gary Andersen have agreed to mutually part, effective immediately.

    A news release on this announcement is attached.

    In the interim, Scott Barnes has appointed current Beaver assistant coach Cory Hall to lead the football program for the remainder of this season.

    The university will undertake a national search to appoint a head coach for the 2018 season, and will utilize a search firm to identify and review candidates. I along with Scott Barnes will ultimately decide who will coach the Beavers.

    I appreciate Gary Andersen’s contributions and achievements on behalf of OSU football, our student-athletes and the university.

    I wish Gary, his wife Stacey, and their family every happiness.

    Sincerely,

    Ed Ray
    President

  • Notthatguy says:
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    Gary Anderson was fired. Wow

    • Nicebeaver Nicebeaver says:
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      Holy shit, that’s nutty. Except I read that he resigned rather than got fired. I’m sure we’ll find out soon

    • Notthatguy says:
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      Would have it been better to wait until year end?

  • youngorst says:
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    Hopefully he resigned with a small buyout. Either way, good riddance.

  • FatDog says:
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    The full news release:

    FROM OREGON STATE UNIVERSITY
    ATHLETICS COMMUNICATION OFFICE October 9, 2017

    Oregon State and Gary Andersen Agree to Mutually Part
    Corvallis — Oregon State University Vice President and Director of Athletics Scott Barnes announced Monday that head football coach Gary Andersen and the school have agreed to mutually part, effective immediately.

    “I thank Gary for his many contributions to our student-athletes, OSU Athletics and Oregon State University,” Barnes said. “OSU football has advanced significantly in many ways during Gary’s tenure here, including in our facilities and student-athlete academic performance. This program is poised for success on and off the field.”

    Oregon State University and Andersen have mutually agreed to release each other from all future contract obligations and payments, which were guaranteed through the 2021 football season.

    “After many discussions with Scott, waiving my contract is the correct decision and enables the young men and the program to move forward and concentrate on the rest of this season,” Andersen said. “Coaching is not about the mighty dollar. It is about teaching and putting young men in a position to succeed on and off the field. Success comes when all parties involved are moving in the same direction.”

    “This is an exceptionally difficult time for me, personally and professionally,” Barnes said. “I have known Gary for many years and respect him highly as a person, my friend, a head football coach and an incredible leader of young men. The timing of this is very difficult; however it is the best for all involved.”

    “Coach Andersen’s decision to waive his remaining compensation is unprecedented in major college athletics,” Barnes said. “His decision is made for the right reasons and values, and it speaks volumes about the kind of honorable person that Gary Andersen is.”

    Barnes said he immediately would undertake a national search to appoint a head coach for the 2018 season, and would utilize a search firm to identify and review candidates. He and OSU President Ed Ray will ultimately decide who will coach the Beavers.

    In the interim, Barnes has appointed current Beaver assistant coach Cory Hall to lead the program.
    Hall is in his second season with the team after joining Oregon State in January 2016. He has college coaching experience at Washington State University, Weber State University and the University of Wisconsin. In addition, he is a six-year NFL veteran, having played for the Atlanta Falcons and Cincinnati Bengals. Hall graduated from Fresno State University where he also played football. In his OSU tenure, he has coached former Beaver Treston Decoud, a fifth round draft pick last April by the Houston Texans, and current All-America cornerback Xavier Crawford.

    Andersen led the OSU football program to unprecedented academic success during his nearly three-year tenure with the team, posting record term cumulative grade point averages, a renewed emphasis on community service involvement, and last season, the Beavers defeated Oregon for the first Civil War victory since 2007.

    In addition, Andersen’s head coaching career includes being a semifinalist for the 2013 Maxwell Award Coach of the Year, a 2012 finalist for the Eddie Robinson Coach of the Year, leading Utah State to the 2012 Western Athletic Conference championship and Wisconsin to the 2014 Big Ten West Division title. As a head coach, Andersen’s student-athletes have achieved 149 conference academic honors, and he has coached 36 individuals selected in the NFL Draft. Andersen has also been a head coach or assistant coach for 11 teams that advanced to bowl games.

    Andersen will not be available for media interviews for the immediate future.

  • ean says:
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    Wow!

  • calibeav says:
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    Damm GA Out!! That was quick

  • Nicebeaver Nicebeaver says:
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    Wow, so he left all of the money on the table. Essentially we have a clean slate again. Cory Hall is the interim coach.
    Gotta give credit to GA for making a choice that very few people would make, by not taking the remaining compensation due on his deal. That’s a big boy pants move if I ever saw one.

    • angry angry says:
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      Agree that’s awesome.

      Please tell me McGiven is gone, too.

    • ean says:
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      Yeah, if I somehow got into the position of being a head football coach and was clearly in way over my head I can say with 100% certainty I would continue coaching til I got fired and collected all the money.

    • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav says:
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      Agree, a big boy move for sure.
      The release indicates that GA will not be available for interviews, there will now be lots of speculation about the reasons for the decision and its timing.

    • OkOsalum94 OkOsalum94 says:
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      High character guy.

  • AKBeaver AKBeaver says:
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    So who’s on the list to replace him? Money shouldn’t be an issue with him waiving his compensation.

  • Big Man Trouserz says:
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    Well, I guess at this point we have all the data on GA at OSU we’re ever going to have.

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