10.Feb.2018 Beaver Fans have Psychological Trauma and Inferiority Complex

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Psychological Trauma is defined as:

A type of damage to the mind that occurs as a result of a severely distressing event.

Inferiority Complex is defined as:

The lack of self-worth, a doubt and uncertainty about oneself, and feelings of not measuring up to standards.

First off, I’m not a psychologist, so this is all opinion and deduction from what I’ve seen. That said, I believe these problems are all due to the 28 year losing streak. Think about the snowball effect of this. It breaks a man down and creates several problems in logic:

1. After 28 years of losing records, a winning record was considered great.

2. Once a winning record is considered great, mediocrity (e.g. 7-6) is considered a successful year.

3. Any coach who can deliver the newly defined “successful year” of 7-6 or better is a “successful” coach.

4. Once 7-6 is the definition of a successful coach, inferiority complex sets in and replaces psychological trauma.

5. Once inferiority complex is the norm, fans believe to think 7-6 is what they deserve. This is why you hear “you can’t win in Corvallis” and all the other lines.

6. Beaver fans tend to feel “safe” in this environment, even if the environment is bad. For example, Gary Andersen was never fully embraced. Some rumblings that he wasn’t “one of us” (tribalism), they didn’t know him like they know Jonathan Riley, etc. This desire to feel safe is also supported by the definition of secondary inferiority, which is “A secondary inferiority feeling relates to an adult’s experience of being unable to reach a subconscious, reassuring fictional final goal of subjective security and success to compensate for the inferiority feelings.” Anyone who is an outsider is viewed as a potential threat, which brings me to my next point…

7. Beaver fans give their “safe” and “mediocre” coach Mike Riley credit for their best moment, the 2001 Fiesta Bowl. This is tribal loyalty to the “safe” guy. Even though another coach took them to that game, Riley gets credit from most of Beaver nation because “he recruited all those guys” (half true, he recruited some, Erickson recruited some, and also half-true because to deduct Riley would have taken them to that same game with those same players is a fallacy).

8. This problem is generational. Just like an abused child is more prone to abuse their children, a traumatized Beaver fan is more inclined to pass down this trauma to the next generation. Many younger Beaver fans get very defensive when the Beavers are criticized for this mediocrity, and they then bring up stories about how they were there with their dad when the streak ended, or how Riley has a +.500 record, or any of the other “hamster wheel” rationalizations we see over and over here or on Twitter. It becomes a culture that is reflected and amplified in the Beaver and National media. Listen to Parker et al closely and how dismissive and hostile they are of anything that challenges this comfortable narrative.

9. Duck fans become sharks to chum and feed off this inferiority. It’s sad, in a way, much like a guy predating on a sexually abused girl is pathetic. Much of this fanbase is traumatized and broken. We are easy prey.

That’s it. Those are my thoughts after reading Twitter and AB for the past 9 years. Again, I’m not a psychologist, and this is all observation, deduction, instincts, etc. I don’t want to get into a big argument about it. I’m tired of watching it, so I’m posting this so people can maybe look in the mirror and either accept or reject they do these things. If we get a few more to admit reality and truth, then that’s great. Most will go back to the comfort of hamster wheeling and feeling safe, because that is what humans do. My challenge: challenge yourself.

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  • BeavGirl BeavGirl
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    First!

    I’ve always been a fan of your psycho analysis of Beaver fans. I really don’t give a shit if you don’t have a degree, you’re the only one taking a real hard look at the fan base as a whole. The complex is complex, that’s for sure, and something that has become entrenched. For me, the complex is most obvious when Riley gets involved. There you see the hamster wheeling, cultish tribalism, denial and weird logical distortions at their most glaring obviousness. Great post Angry!

  • Mechanical Man
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    This is exactly what is happening with every person in my family when it comes to OSU football, yet I’m the only one to recognize it.

    So I told them that I will not watch OSU football until they post a winning season. Frees up so much time to focus on improving other parts of my life.

  • Beav in Hi
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    Dilly dilly!

  • cj cj
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    What a steaming pile of bullshit!

    • scotty
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      Totally agree this fanbase’s slobbering over mediocrity is bullshit. Well said, cj!

  • bleedorange
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    Reaching!

  • Sane person
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    This is hilarious, thanks for the laugh, angry. I thought you were serious for a minute, lol.

  • marcodg marcodg
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    OT. Stevie Thompson beats Huskies at Gill. Again. Last second 3.
    Beavs win 97 – 94 in double overtime. I thought the refs were going to hose us again there for a while.

    • BlackBandits BlackBandits
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      Should have done it 5 minutes earlier with his free throws.

    • mckalk mckalk
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      Or Ronnie Stacy was going to hose the team. Anyone else trying to figure out why he played the last 15 minutes of the game? Was his defense that good because he is incompetent on offense. Hollins is dynamic out there, I’m trying to figure out why Tinkle benched him. I guess his defense?

      • BeaverBill BeaverBill
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        Was totally wondering the same thing.

      • Old Yeller
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        Ronnie Stacy is an outstanding defender. That’s why he’s on the court. At the end of the game, when it’s crunch time, you want guys who play defense out there. I enjoy watching him play, he works harder than anybody out their. He earns his PT.

        • mckalk mckalk
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          I’m not sure I buy the outstanding defender line (although I have a feeling that’s what WT believes). There was very little defense being played by either team and it was four on five offensively. If you want a player who basically stands around the perimeter because he can’t shoot and when he drives he can’t finish, that’s fine. I would rather see Hollins get the minutes and keep improving on defense. Hollins is the future, Stacy was a poor transfer choice.

    • blackbug
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      The officiating was one sided once again. Oregon State is just not good enough to overcome the officiating bias consistently. The biased officials have affected the performances of the basketball this year as much as their other short comings. This bias is not imagined. All one has to do is look at the consistent foul discrepancy on the box scores.

      • Jack Jack
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        This game was decent. I was talking with someone during the first OT about how this was possibly the best game we’d ever seen a Vern Harris crew call at Gill.

        Then they made three or four bad calls over the last 1:30 of that period.

        And then some missed FTs?

        • Jack Jack
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          We were having this talk because the crew called steps often, which was nice. The second half was a lot cleaner because that garbage was known not to fly.

  • Angry@angry
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    Interpretation; slow sports period, baseball hasn’t started yet, recruiting season is over, time for outrageous opinion pieces that if anyone disagrees with they are obviously an idiot

  • BeaverBill BeaverBill
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    Haven’t had time this year to watch much OSU basketball. So asking a question….. is E. Thompson play always this bad. Psychologically I’m too traumatized to watch another game now. I need to lay on a couch.

    • Ripper
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      He does make some freshman mistakes, but I think he’s going to be really good over the next few years (and yes, it is getting late in the year for freshman mistakes).

      • BeaverBill BeaverBill
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        Good to hear… I pee’d myself several times during his ball handling.

        • Jack Jack
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          Man!

          Between you and the pants-shitter from the previous thread, we’re looking at a lot of stinky laundry.

        • Jim DyeIf incontence
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          If bladder control is a problem because of a game (Barkley said it best when’s reporter asked:”What if you lose?” He said it’s a game, stupid. There will still be hunger, war. It’s a game stupid.”

  • Bill
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    Beavs fans also have a complex over officiating in nearly every sport. It’s getting pretty old.

    • ohiobeav
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      Do you even watch the games? That can’t be a serious comment. I have been waiting for 20 years to see the Beavs catch a few breaks in any sport. Casey and Rueck are miracle workers in overcoming the given of bias against OSU. Riley didn’t have the drive or force of will to overcome it regularly. Casey has consistently but now faces a bigger in ESPNSEC.

      • mckalk mckalk
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        Well, did you watch the game ending highlight of the 2016 Husky MBB game? Thompson Jr. did a serious Buffalo shuffle before hitting that winning three. I would say that was a helluva break as it helped get the team into the dance! Also, how about the foul on Utah when Thompson was shooting a half court three? Many times that foul gets passed on by the refs. I’m just saying, there may be a bias, but some breaks have come the Beavs way.

  • Homefry Homefry
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    Apparently I need to re-up on my meds. I enjoyed tonight’s double overtime game and felt good. Then read this….called my therapist for an emergency session tomorrow. I will check back in after rehab ends.

  • Ripper
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    First, I’ve followed the beavs since I was an undergrad watching Ted Bates use his long arms at defensive end, and I know we’ve had a lot of ups and downs (more the latter, I’ll grant you). But the post seems to read that if we agree with you, we’re on the side of all that’s right and true, but if we don’t, we don’t “admit reality and truth”. I’ll have neither, thanks. Some elements of truth? Sure, I’ll buy that. Others not so much. I do appreciate the thought that went into your post.

    • Jack Jack
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      This is the mindset I don’t understand. The points he brings up aren’t exactly dead-on because there are better, more established terms and ideas to explain what he sees. But it’s not there for you to disagree. It’s just there.

      You can argue the semantics, but you can’t argue the over-arching idea. We have a major segment of a generation of fans who are just damaged from a fan standpoint. They can’t have nice things because they don’t believe they deserve nice things. A standing ovation for Bike Smiley? That says soooooooooooooo much that you just can’t deny.

      So pick on the verbiage, but don’t pretend you disagree when you really know the overall message is true.

      • Ripper
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        Like I said, “Some elements of truth? Sure, I’ll buy that. Others not so much. I do appreciate the thought that went into your post.” I’m not “pretending” anything, Jack.

  • helmsley
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    Only got to hear the last part of the game – the best part. Does Jack still wish he had been watching Gonzaga -St. Mary’s?

    • Ostatebeavs87
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      ^^^^ wp

    • Jack Jack
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      I thought about it once, at halftime… looked up the score… felt decent about being where I was.

      This was a weird game. We were laying well enough that I had the feeling we had momentum while we were down double digits. It felt like we were winning when we really weren’t. I don’t know how to explain it. The team just had a certain confidence that UW couldn’t shake.

      It was truly enjoyable to see a high post, high/low and a short corner who played inside-out. I’ve only asked for that for four years now.

      • mckalk mckalk
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        I think it seemed odd because the Beavs finally had a game without one of the 5-8 minute scoring droughts that has been a staple of this years team. They actually had nice offensive flow most of the game. I remember thinking, how the hell are they down 13?

  • BlackBandits BlackBandits
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    Angry it’s not an inferiority Complex. It’s apathy and in some ways the framing affect.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apathy
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framing_effect_(psychology)

  • ohiobeav
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    Anyone who watched this game and still scoffs at refs changing a game against the Beavs isn’t being serious. UW had foul shots consistently at the end of regulation as the beavs made their run.
    There was a series of no-calls ending the half, incuding a 5 pt swing. Ethan gets called for charge anytime he enters the lane, Drew had a big dunk and got mauled=no call, other end less contact becomes an and 1.
    The pep band does a disservice to the fans during the late timeout by playing the fight song as loud boos were raining down on the refs after a particularly bad call on Drew when Nickerson just slipped in the lane. Band director should give the crowd room to vent instead of drowning it out. Those refs were inconsistent and gave UW plenty of chances and the benefit of the doubt throughout.
    Stacy’s minutes tonight are fool’s gold and Hollins should be on the court as much as possible My guess is UW had no scouting of Stacy and didn’t realize they didn’t need to guard him. But Tinkle will play Stacy more and Hollins less. Hollins is fearless and a dynamic athlete, play him..

    • Hiblackbug
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      Agree.

      • bendbeaver bendbeaver
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        This is the first post I can think of where anyone referenced the pep band. You made up for it for calling Stacy’s minutes “fools gold”. That dude should not see the court.

        • Jack Jack
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          What was with the hand-rubbing? I’ve become annoyed with it over the last couple games.

          • mckalk mckalk
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            Who was hand-rubbing, Stacy? I think he exudes what I would call “fake energy”….a lot of fast running around with no specific basketball purpose in mind.

          • Jack Jack
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            The whole west end, especially the band.

            It’s annoying.

          • beavergopher beavergopher
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            Purell

          • Jack Jack
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            That actually makes sense.

            Obviously it didn’t annoy me enough to pay attention to the whole process.

  • blackbug
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    OT: Since we did not get any of the last couple WR recruits, are we looking for one? It looks like Nikia Jones is still available. Is there any background story that anyone knows.

    Also, there are many prospects that we were the favorite for at one time that appear to be available. This is a rough list off the top of my head: Kemon Smith, Josh Smith, Nikia Jones, Teagan Quitoriano, Xavier Wade, Jared Miles, Mason Starling, Trey Brown, Sione Veikoso, Jaquan Beaver, Victor Terry, and Rocky Savea. Probably nothing going on with them. Just thought I would check. We are pretty much full, but things will probably change. I would guess there is academic problems with some of them.

    We have one commit for the 2019 class, this is probably the earliest ever. The commit looks like a good one, although a bit under the radar right now. The good news is our 2019 class is the 5th ranked class in the PAC 12. This may be the highest we rank comparatively.

    Interesting fact: the 2018 class has 4 commits that were decent high school quarterbacks not including the 2 quarterback recruits.

    The class has 2 linemen who were/are top ranked wrestlers in their State. I think this is important as it teaches balance and how to grind it out.

    I really enjoyed the men’s basketball game today.

  • BeaverBeliever BeaverBeliever
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    I think you’re mostly right, angry. It’s why I have way more hope for Beaver Basketball than I do for football, because at least we aren’t beholden to a manipulative, abusive coach like we are in football; we’re actually willing to hire and fire coaches if they’re not working. Right now, I have absolutely no enthusiasm or hope for Beaver Football, because there’s little to no chance of there ever being positive change so long as Riley is part of it. That, plus the old timers worshiping him like Prometheus, makes for a football program with no standards or ambition whatsoever.

    OT: I may come off as conspiratorial for this, but it really feels like the PAC-12 refs were trying to screw us over tonight with some of those calls. Either that, or it’s an astounding level of incompetence from them.

    Thank goodness Stephen Thompson Jr. is a Husky killer. Maybe winning a close one like this will get the ” we can’t win close games” mental anvil off their heads, and they can go on a nice win streak after this.

    • Jack Jack
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      Wake me when a Woyne Trinkle team wins some road games.

      • mckalk mckalk
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        They turned in one of their more uninspired performances against Cal when they had a real chance to end the road losing streak. If they somehow beat UCLA on Thursday, I would have to acknowledge some progress from WT.

  • Jack Jack
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    Right arm!

  • mckalk mckalk
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    Regarding the topic, I wonder how much of this is driven by older local fans? Riley is sort of the hometown hero makes good and his connection to Corvallis goes back decades. It’s probably entrenched with a portion of that specific population. I’m a pretty big football fan and have lived in Oregon off and on for many years and I didn’t know his background the first time he was hired.

    I think a lot of it goes with his “nice guy” image. Older fan base and the media both love it and perpetuate the man and the myth. I get frustrated because he’s been a shitty coach for almost a decade now and no one wants to talk about that. The Oregon media basically ignored the fact that drove the Nebraska program into the ground in three short years and treat him like the prodigal son.

    I’m apathetic at this point, the “Riley effect” is what it is. The team is so shitty, I just want a see a better product on the field, I don’t care what coaches get the team there.

    • angry angry
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      Yep, that’s why I dubbed him the prodigal grandpa.

      • mckalk mckalk
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        I do think this loser mindset, interestingly pre-dates Riley regarding football. I remember Craig Fertig babbling on at a press conference about how proud he was of the offense because they gained 300 yards in a 40 or 50 point loss to USC. I wish Pettibone could have at least had a 6-5 season, I know he’s considered a joke now, but he had some tough ass teams with Rocky Long. Those 4-7 seasons could have easily turned. Shit, he had a 1-10 team that gave up less than 250 points. The Wishbone was not the right offense, he had the right coaching staff on defense. Put up a couple of winning seasons back then and Riley would possibly be a non-factor.

      • ObjCritic
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        ?? I came up with that, not you?

        • angry angry
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          No.
          Pretty easy to check using the search function or search comments.

          I first mention it the day GA left:
          http://angrybeavs.com/football/13298

          You do mention it, but much later on 12/21, after those comments but also after I made a post about the prodigal grandpa.

  • PdX
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    Can anyone identify which beaver player this is? http://i65.tinypic.com/29mn5om.jpg

  • beavergopher beavergopher
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    Thank god I knew the outcome before watching. Good win.
    Stacey sucks. WTF with him taking a shot in crunch time?
    ST needs to practice FT’s……a lot. He should have closed it out at the line.
    Little Bro should not be making such dumb TO’s this late in the year.
    Lil Tinks was great and they actually attacked a D effectively.
    That would have been a fun game to be at.

    • mckalk mckalk
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      So what you’re saying is they did a really good fucking point guard at soon!

    • mckalk mckalk
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      So what you’re saying is they did a really good fucking point guard soon!

      • mckalk mckalk
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        Sorry, computer is glitching out…………”need a good fucking point guard soon”!

        • helmsley
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          as long as you are insistent about language – I think a fucking good point guard might be a wiser sequence. From Bill Maher – i think it’s a new rule. No need to correct typos in additional postings. We get it.

          • mckalk mckalk
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            I didn’t realize I had typos until I saw that it double posted! I was apparently not logged in when I thought I was. Fuck Bill Maher, that smarmy bastard!

  • Alpha Alpha
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    Beaver fans suck for the most part, never cheer or even stand up during the game.

    • mckalk mckalk
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      You try getting up and down a lot when you’re 76 years old!

    • Old Yeller
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      Why do you say that? I thought Gill was as loud as I’ve heard it in a long time last night for a men’s game. The players just have to give the crowd something to get on their feet for. When they do the atmosphere in Gill is terrific.

  • Nicebeaver Nicebeaver
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    My wife woke up this morning to an email from Oregon State about winning a huge game in double overtime last night. She doesn’t follow OSU but gets email because she bought tickets once.
    Anyway, she asked me who OSU beat because it sure sounded like a big deal.
    Her: Who did they beat?
    Me: UW
    Her: Are they good?
    Me: Not really. Maybe middle of the Pac.
    Her: Oregon State needs to get over their Mike Riley loser mentatlity. I can already tell you they’re going to lose their next game and I don’t know who they play.

    And this was all without any prior knowledge of Angry’s post from last night. It’s like you guys were on the same wavelength. She’s right, too. I kept seeing post after post on twitter last night about “This is March!!” and “The shot” or various video angles from the final play. OSU is celebrating the UW win as if they won the Pac12 last night. Even the football team is doing it for them.

    We’ve already blown our wad before next weeks SoCal road trip.

    • angry angry
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      Didn’t they storm the field when the 28 year losing streak ended? Lol.

      We stormed the field after good wins that meant little, too, like USC, Cal at #1, CW streak ending, etc. Those are all good wins, but secure fanbases don’t storm the field for them. There were some others that were ever worse, I think, but can’t recall them right now.

      Celebrating that UW win like we won the PAC is just sad.

      Whoever does the updates on twitter is so out of touch, too. It’s like the NFL guy who is down 40-0, gets a first down, and gets up dancing and celebrating.

      • Bill
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        Uw rushed the field when osu was ranked in the top 10 a number of years ago.

      • youngorst
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        What is your standard for storming the field?

        Seriously, sports are suppose to be fun and everyone of those events was storm the field worthy and many programs would storm the field in each of those events or even lesser events.

        Hell, Utah stormed the field after beating Oregon State in 2008.

        Yes, I want OSU to make a Rose Bowl and believe it can be done but I am not stupid enough to believe OSU is gonna be a national power in football. That simply isn’t going to happen. They can and should rise up a couple times per decade and get 10 wins while almost always having a winning record. That is a realistic goal for the OSU football program. You don’t have to like it but until they get their own Phil Knight (and likely even if they got a Phil Knight) its reality.

        • wannabeav
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          in the Phoenix newspaper the day after the Fiesta Bowl win over Notre Dame a local sports columnist, can’t remember his name, said that with Dennis Erickson’s track record and recent success there wasn’t any reason why OSU could not become a national powerhouse. Alas, Dennis is a bit of narcissist and always needs to be feel wanted and ditched us for the NFL. you know the rest of the story; one word: Riley.

          • youngorst
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            That columnist was wrong, OSU is never gonna be a national power in football. Could they have a 3-4 year run? If everything breaks right, sure. But a national power? Not gonna happen. That is an unrealistic expectation. That said, 2001 and 2018 are worlds apart so even if he was right then (he wasn’t) it wouldn’t mean a damn thing now.

            OSU can consistently go bowling, OSU can consistently finish ranked, and OSU can win enough games to reach a New Years Bowl once or twice a decade. Expecting much more than that is setting yourself up for massive disappointment. Goals need to be realistic. Something along the lines of Oklahoma State level success is a lofty yet attainable goal. Attempting to be Oklahoma is not.

          • Jack Jack
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            What are you arguing against? Do you have perfect recall on the article, and can speak to these topics that are not mentioned by the comment above? I feel like you’re making up a bunch of ancillary topics to speak against some of the others.

      • Jack Jack
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        The best storming of the field was 1989 after the UCLA game. Watching the goalpost walk out the stadium was pretty funny.

        • beaverkman beaverkman
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          I was student at that game, that was a heck of fun. Took the posts to the MU and chanted “F-U-C-L-A” they ended up at some frat house and we took our pictures on it in their backyard.

      • Mike
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        Hell Angry one year ages ago The Beavs beat UCLA in Football and the last shot on ABC was a Goal Post being drug towards down the road that was a classic. I always enjoy your thinking, I’ve been a fan of OSU since 1967 my freshman year in HS. Our football coach brought the team down for a game against BYU as usual we got smoked good OL Dee A. 3 yards and a cloud of dust, The Riley thing just SUCKS I wish he would just crash his bike and go away, there I said it I hate the SOB.

  • angry angry
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    Check out this deranged logic: https://twitter.com/Lionbenny1010/status/962712023703330817

    We don’t want to expect more than 7 wins because that’s elitist. Lol.

    Proves my point precisely.

    • mckalk mckalk
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      He looks like the type of person who we don’t want as a fan.

      • angry angry
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        With the “elitist” fan comment he’s trying to take a jab at Duck fans, too. So transparent. “Yeah, we don’t want more than 7 wins because that’s elitist like those Ducks….”

        Lololol. I mean I get taking a spin on the hamster wheel so you can cope, but coming up with that!?

        • mckalk mckalk
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          I want to be worthy of the “adulation” of my dog…….WTF?

        • beaverkman beaverkman
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          Loyal? Is he being loyal to Riley? The same guy who left twice, admitted that the staff “was going through the motions” and never would fire incompentent coaches on his staff? That seems quite the opposite.

          It’s like we can’t get out of an abusive relationship. Wish there was an outreach program for our fanbase and athletic dept.

    • Jack Jack
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      Wow… first time I’ve looked at that account. He seems to be unhealthily focused on Dumbshit the Dirtbag POTUS. Just call him what he is, and leave it at that. If you parse what Dumshit says, you become as pathetic a loser as he is.

  • pettibonehead pettibonehead
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    Went to ASU-UCLA game yesterday with a fellow snowbird. The guys from Wisconsin, I think. The place was packed going nuts. They even took down a wall to gain another 3000 seats. My friend was pissed that we paid $20 to park, last year it was free.

    The point is, I guess, that it can be done. Not sure if Hurley is a “flash in the pan” or the long term solution, but he sure has them going now.

    I’m taking this guy to the baseball opener on Friday. Says he doesn’t like baseball. Maybe Casey and the boys can change that.

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    This might be the dumbest thing I have ever read. I feel dumber for having read it.

    Yes, when OSU has won 12 games in the last 4 years going 7-6 would be a success. Now once they reach that point you have to continue to build but the idea that 7-6 can never be considered a success is ridiculous.

    • youngorst
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      I’d also add that I don’t know a single Beaver fan that gives Riley credit for the Fiesta Bowl, not one.

      • WFO WFO
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        You’ve never seen/heard the “Erickson won with Riley’s recruits” line?

        • youngorst
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          Yes, I have heard people say that Riley recruits were part of the Fiesta Bowl team, I have never heard anyone claim that Riley was the reason that team made the Fiesta Bowl or that the team would have went to the Fiesta Bowl if Riley was coach.

          There is a difference between stating a fact (Riley recruits were members of that team, Erickson did in fact win with Riley recruits) and giving Riley the credit.

        • Nicebeaver Nicebeaver
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          I don’t know that I’ve heard people specifically say Riley’s team won the Fiesta Bowl, but I do frequently hear people say Riley ended the 28 year no bowl game streak. Definitely not true. Riley’s first winning season and bowl game at OSU came AFTER Erickson left.

          • youngorst
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            I’ve never heard that from people either. It doesn’t surprise me though.

            Many Beaver fans absolutely think Riley is better/did more than he actually is/did but I still don’t think that validates this post.

            I’ve been a fan of bad sports teams my whole life (a Seattle sports fan) and I can remember celebrating the Seahawks going 9-7 and backing into the playoffs in 1999. They’d been terrible for so long that of course I celebrated that achievement, it was a successful season. I was still ranting against Mike Holmgren in 2007 when 9-7 seemed to be the norm. 9-7 can be a success one year and a failure another year (hell, Seattle just went 9-7 in 2017 and it was absolutely a failure). Both can be true.

            Same thing with the 1995 Mariners, the team lost in the ALCS but that was one of the most fun seasons I’ve ever seen as a sports fan. It didn’t result in a title but was still a success.

            There are different levels of success and being happy that OSU football goes 7-6 doesn’t mean you have an inferiority complex or are physiologically damaged.

            Even if you are happy with 7-6 year in and year out it doesn’t mean either of those things. It could simply mean that you are happy to have a competitive team to watch on Saturday’s while enjoying a walk down memory lane when you go to Reser for a game or 2.

            At the end of the day sports are suppose to be fun. If someone gets enjoyment from a trip to the Las Vegas Bowl I say good for them.

          • youngorst
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            I’d also add that I don’t think I’d ever fire a coach that is getting to a Bowl game every year. So if Smith winning 6-9 every year you probably won’t hear me calling for his head.

            That doesn’t mean I don’t want more but the odds suggest firing such a coach is unlikely to result in improvement. And that isn’t just an OSU thing. Very few schools should be firing coaches that get them to bowls year in/year out. In the PAC I’d argue there are probably only 2 schools that should consider firing a coach you goes bowling consistently because they aren’t winning enough (USC and UW).

        • wannabeav
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          I hear that ALL the time. “Yes, Dennis had a great year, but he did it with Riley’s recruits.”

          • angry angry
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            Yeah it’s actually said more often then “Erickson won with his own recruits”. Nobody ever says that. They either say nothing or that he won with Riley’s guys. People have to give Riley the credit, even though the guys Erickson brought in and his coaching style put them over the top. This guy claims to have never have heard it. He either has his head in the sand or it’s yet another coping mechanism.

            Parker throws in the “Riley’s recruits” thing any chance he can get. I barely listen to the show and heard it a handful of times on there.

          • Jack Jack
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            It’s actually DE won with mostly his recruits (12), a large segment of Pettibone recruits (8) and five Riley recruits (including one walk-on) on the two-deep.

            The Bikey fallacy about 98 being the catalyst for everything following it has been discussed before, forcing these numbers to be studied and retained.

          • youngorst
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            Never heard it from anyone I know that roots for Oregon State. Not a single time in my life.

          • scotty
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            Yet you never hear “Riley part 1 won games with Pettibone’s recruits!”

            (Sorry, PBH, 75 bucks is too much)

          • Jack Jack
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            Fourth paragraph:
            http://www.1029thegame.com/fire-mike-riley-are-you-crazy/

            It’s a very common fallacy. People just forget that Riley was 27 and 28 and likely would have been 29 if he had any loyalty to OSU.

            His best seasons were four straight third place finishes over a decade ago, plus one great season in 2012 that his OC managed to screw up in three very winnable losses… that also ended up in third place.

            Third place is mediocre, and that’s his best. In 17 seasons as a D1 college head coach he doesn’t have double digits in winning seasons. It would be interesting to find someone else with that kind of mediocrity keeping their job. Brooks at Nikegon is the only coach I can think of off the top of my head.

          • youngorst
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            Not to defend Riley but amongst current coaches I’d say Fitzgerald at Northwestern and Cultcliffe at Duke have similar resumes and won’t lose their jobs anytime soon.

          • Jack Jack
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            Fitzgerald: 12 seasons, 7 winning seasons, 3 seasons with only 3 losses, finished second in his division last year… a division in which Riley finished fifth, likely to reach double-digit winning seasons if he continues to coach for another five seasons.

            Cutcliffe: more comparable… 16 seasons, 9 winning seasons, but won his division twice and came in second once.

            I think finding academic powers are going to be the best chances to find like coaches. David Bailiff probably had bad numbers too.

          • Jack Jack
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            Two of Fitgerald’s non-winning seasons ended at .500. One of them was before there were enough participation trophy bowls for any old hack to get a bowl bid, and the other was a bowl loss in one of those scrub bowls.

    • angry angry
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      Denial.

  • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins
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    “Next, the Beavers go back on the road, where they have won only three Pac-12 games in the past four seasons”

    Until the men’s hoops program can figure out how to win conference road games they’ll never take the next step. Time is running out.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/beavers/index.ssf/2018/02/stephen_thompson_jr_again_deli.html#incart_river_index

    0-2 in LA next week. Take it to the bank.

  • Nicebeaver Nicebeaver
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    If Oregon State and Tinkle ever part ways while Barnes is at OSU, I just don’t trust Barnes when it comes to hiring a replacement. He pretty much desteoyed Pitt’s prorgram with the Kevin Stallings hire, then cut bait and ran to Oregon State. Just read the comments from Pitt fans. They’re miserable

    https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/962763722216194049

    • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins
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      Here was an interesting reply

      Oh trust me, Pitt fans and media were all over it. A reporter asked our AD(bolted to Oregon State) to come clean about the hiring process. Everyone hated it and thought it was fishy

      https://twitter.com/AndrewYoungg/status/962771156024602624

      Kind of like the comment from Lindgren in the GT last week about being offered the OC position weeks before JS was even announced as the head coach? There’s something about that whole process and what we were told by Barnes thru the media and PC that doesn’t add up.

  • angry angry
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    Mike Parker needs to go.

  • wannabeav
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    Angry: This most recent post of yours is one of your best. I’d put it in the same class as your classics: “Riley’s 9 win win-cap, and Is Riley Depressed?” What I find of particular value is the meta-narrative quality of your thinking. We can all get lost in the weeds, go over the top, or just make a mistake, but what I like about this kind of post, and why I called it a meta-narrative, is that it explains so much.

    I’ll only pick out a few themes for special mention. The notion of “tribalism” is one of your stronger points. It goes a long way to explain why Jack’s consistently compelling analysis of why hiring Riley for the third time was wrong, unethical, poor business practice, etc., gets such push-back. It also goes a long way toward explaining the charade known as the most recent coaching search: Smith was always destined for the job, even if he has since proven he was not ready for it (why hire Riley if he needed that experience around?), because he’s not only a part of the tribe, he has the added advantage of having been recruited by Riley. That’s the tragedy of the GA era because he had the chance to break the cycle/addiction and blew it. So now, as you say, we grope our way back to comfort zone of 1997-98 mediocrity where 5 win seasons will be deemed satisfactory.

    I do think this phenomenon is localized, though. For example, the closer you are to Corvallis the more pervasive this mind set is. By way of converse example, the farther you are from Corvallis the weirder the hiring of Riley the third time looks.

    I also believe there is a correlation to your post and the chronically bad officiating that victimizes OSU in all sports through the decades. Bad refereeing is external validation of “those people” (OSU teams and fans) have low self esteem, don’t expect much, let alone excellence, and therefore aren’t worthy of being treated fairly.

    • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins
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      ” That’s the tragedy of the GA era because he had the chance to break the cycle/addiction and blew it.”

      Despite GA and his staff’s shortcomings, is it entirely possible that GA cut bait when he did is because he realized he wasn’t going to change the nepotism/culture within the OSU athletic department?

      • helmsley
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        I buy that, but wasn’t the hiring of Scott Barnes supposed to at the behest of Andersen? On another issue, did Barnes ever weigh in on baseball at the end of the regular season? I seem to recall any OSU statements as coming from either Casey or Ed Ray which makes me think/wonder if Casey runs his show independently of the AD department.

      • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav
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        GA’s emails bad mouthing “the guys he hired” makes it hard to point to any frustration in changing the culture existing within the athletic department as the reason he jumped ship when he did.

        But, yes, I think Casey runs his operation himself and has a record which keeps interference from the AD, et al to a minimum.

        • BlackBandits BlackBandits
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          He did text about a weight room being stalled, or something like that.

        • ohiobeav
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          I know there was a lot of uneasiness within the Athletic Dept in general where GA was concerned. Depends on whose prism you look through to decide why that was the case. He may have been so competitive that it rubbed everyone who was closet pro-Riley the wrong way, or he was a control freak that no one liked after all.
          I think after initial shock wore off that he actually came to Corvallis, it was a matter of time until the pro-Riley camp that was entrenched decided to undermine GA and he eventually got wind of it around the time of the UW game last year. JS was a fait accompli and even Dee was talking about it early on apparently. GA gave it another week or 2 and had had enough.
          Is there any real reporting that will ever clear up what happened? Unlikely because it will lead down the rabbit hole of pro-Riley boosters who were grasping at the mediocrity of old as the answer to the dreadful years of GA.

          • Jack Jack
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            I’m hoping that’s all speculation, because that would be beyond disgusting if true. No true fan scuttles a whole team for the sake of sucking like that. If this is true, then I’m done with OSU football until these garbage people die off in whatever miserable way they choose to exist.

            This makes me livid with disgust. The Bikey standing ovation “fans” can go to fucking hell.

            Unfortunately, it also fits with the reports that GA wanted out before he sent those texts, but Barnes made him stay for another month of this complete and utter bullshit. I want to go slap some of these bitches and spit in their faces right now. You don’t get to treat my OSU teams and student-athletes with that kind of complete disrespect and still call yourself a fan.

            Simply disgusting.

          • Angry@angry
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            And after all those really serious words, none of that will happen!!

            You won’t be done with OSU football
            You won’t slap any “bitch” in their face
            You won’t spit in anyone’s face

            You’re just gonna piss and moan like an impotent jerk

          • Alpha Alpha
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            But he can deadlift a mountain…

          • Jack Jack
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            The Amazing Mister Deadlifto makes an appearance.

            A@A, the technical difficulties of being done with OSU football makes the latter two impossible. Really really really disgusting, demeaning, irreverent and dishonorable “fans” won’t even get the stink-eye from me if this is true, because I will be done with OSU football until those pieces of shit bitches die their miserable deaths and go to fucking hell.

            And if any of them admit to me that they were a part of this stupendously disgusting thing that I really hope is just speculation, You can bet I will hawk a loogie and spit it on them so they can accessorize properly.

          • Jack Jack
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            It has to be speculation.

            It was obvious Bikey quit at NU halfway through last season. That was disgusting enough. But to have him steal their money AND be complicit in destroying the lives of OSU’s student athletes (and wasting the money honest fans paid to go cheer for these SAs) is so ninth circle of hell. I have a hard time wrapping my head around even Bikey being that devoid of anything good. He’s ethically tone deaf, mediocre to the oint of being an apathetic loser and quit at his last four coaching gigs.

            But this would be epically disgusting and deserving of constant kicking and spitting upon.

          • angry angry
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            I’ve heard some really bad rumblings about the athletic department. Trying to get to the bottom of it. But basically, the idea that there is an old guard in the AD and they don’t want any rocking of the ship has merit from what I can tell.

            Makes a lot of sense why they’d bring in Smith, who is in many ways a young Riley. This fits with me “one of us” narrative/tribalism, too. Some of that comes from the AD from what I can tell. I hope to get to the bottom of this and get more details. Stay tuned. Don’t know how long it will take.

          • Angry@angry
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            Everything is bad to you, you’re Dougie Downer.

            Good news for OSU is if you’re the one getting to the bottom of it, nothing of factual substance will ever come to light.

          • Jack Jack
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            … says the dood who has contributed nothing ever, good or bad. You’re just a nuh-uh machine.

          • Jack Jack
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            I’m going to reserve judgment until this can be cleared up. These actions border on an evil and petty loserdom. Anyone who sabotages a whole program deserves to watch a mirror while their teeth fall out in bunches… then be given nothing but overcooked steaks and hard tack for meals.

          • Jack Jack
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            The problem is that it’s so pathetically disgusting, that I don’t think you can make up a story that bad. I know how evil people can be. I’ve seen them do some really disgusting things in the name of the common good, never attaining what they say they’re doing. This doesn’t involve any dying or direct abuse of power, but it’s as nefarious and disgusting as you can get as a sports fan. This is the kind of trash thinking that makes me wish we had fan cards so I could take them away from these trash people and rip them up.

            Just disgusting on a pathetic loser plane unimagined before now. This is disgusting enough that I’m angry at the messenger for either bringing it to light or developing a story where we find out a large swath of “Beaver fans” actually hate their school so much they would act like such losers and haters, not just accept mediocrity and constant losing like I thought.

            If true, it’s going to be hard to go to hoops games any more. I know a couple people there who are football boosters in this vein, and I don’t think I can not call them out for being the evil losers they are if they took part in this sabotage. I have so little respect for these pretend fans right now. These subhuman actions just can’t be true.

          • angry angry
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            So A@A works in the AD. Now we know why he is so protective of the status quo.

  • beavergopher beavergopher
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    Scott’s crew crushes the Dogs in Seattle by 38.

  • Lancer
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    It isn’t a terrible proposition, but I think it does overlook that what “successful” was, was changed in the minds of many just as much, if not more so, by the reorganization of college football during those 28 years with regards to the national championship.

    • Jack Jack
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      Successful is pretty much the same now as it was. Win your conference and play in a “New Years” bowl. That’s success.

      Being on the track to success is not success. But it is noted as positive. Constantly falling short of success is just mediocrity. Constantly falling short then regressing is just pathetic.

      • Lancer
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        Yes Jack, what you say is true as far as success and mediocrity.

        I feel though, that when in the past the pinnacle originally was the Rose Bowl & subsequently this changed to the idea of National Champion & an emphasis placed now on the necessity of gaining the winnings earned via corporate sponsored bowl games, what standards are taken to define success by schools & their respective fan bases, has changed.

        The standards changed over the 28 year losing streak. It’s prudent to acknowledge that.

        • Jack Jack
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          I’m good with the RB. But given our luck, we’ll catch lightning in a bottle and have to go play in this stupid pretend play-off in the Peach or Cotton Bowl. I want a Rose Bowl, and that can happen if we just win our division, given the layout of the high level bowls. So while I would want to win the CCG, I’ll take a RB consolation as success.

          But what I’m trying to point out is that setting a goal and successfully meeting it doesn’t equal a successful season if the goal is not to have a successful season. If you’re successful at reaching a mediocre goal, you’re not really successful.

  • rsteve503 rsteve503
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    Well, right now success will rightly be measured in progress. When yer 1-11, even a few more wins will be that, next year. Then it will be getting a winning season and a bowl game. Yeah, you can deride a low tier bowl as mediocre, but after 1-11, it will be honest success. Then we see what Smith it made of. Another Riley, with any bowl game a successful season? Or will he aim like we all want, at building something that can honestly contend and maybe occasionally win, the conference.

    Riley never did that and deserves his mediocre status. One hope is that he doesnt last long in this last coaching bit of his, so that if Smith does get near the top, that success isnt handed off, default, to Riley. As his later years here, and his stint at Nebraska showed, the second half of his coaching career was without the energy and desire to win.

    I think Smith wont have that problem. He came closer to the top as the QB in that Fiesta Bowl year than Riley ever did, in all his years. Smith knows it can be done.

    • Jack Jack
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      Wrong.

      3-9 will not be success. 6-6 won’t be success either. It’s just .500 ball. It will be improvement, but it won’t be success… unless you’re willing to settle for mediocrity. Riley never succeeded. His apex was mediocrity. He came close, but he doesn’t seem to care enough to do his job well, given his amazing level of football knowledge.

      Winning our Division can be called success. Everything short of that is either on the road to or from success.

      “But Jack,” Bikey retorts, “Grey Cups [mumble mumble… weak excuse for reason… something about a neat deal].”

      • youngorst
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        Claiming 6-6 wouldn’t be a success is ridiculous. Of course it would. It might not be a success in 2020 but in 2018 it would be.

        Short term success is still success.

        If you are gonna be miserable every year OSU fails to win the national title you should probably become an Alabama fan.

        • angry angry
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          If you’d cheer for 6-6 you’d also storm the field for breaking losing streaks. Your expectations are very low, as you admit above being a fan of loser teams growing up. You basically confirm the point of my post.

          • youngorst
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            I confirm nothing. Yes, I do enjoy being a sports fan. I see no point of being miserable all the time. That confirms nothing in your ridiculous post.

            6-6 after the last 4 seasons would absolutely 100% be a success. That by no means means I have low expectations. Its called having realistic goals. If you can’t recognize that I’d recommend you stop watching sports, it must be a miserable experience for you to know that you will literally never be happy with anything OSU athletics does. I mean by your standards, even Pat Casey has been a failure over the last decade (0 national titles equal no success right?)

            I feel bad for you. I really do.

          • angry angry
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            Stop trying to make your loserdom about me.

          • youngorst
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            If your long term goal is to reach the Rose Bowl (and for me that is the goal, I couldn’t care less about the playoff) and you refuse to accept that anything less than that can still be a success you will never get there.

            You have to walk before you run.

            Claiming I have low expectations is bullshit. I have no such thing. I expect the Seahawks to win the Super Bowl now. Anything less than that is a failure for them. But that is because they have reached that level.
            OSU just went 1-11 and has been terrible for 4 years. Claiming the only way they can be a success in 2018 is to reach the Rose Bowl is simply nonsense. That isn’t low expectations, its having a thinking, working brain that recognizes what is realistic vs. what is pie in the sky dreams that will never happen. The goal in 2018 should be bowl eligibility. If they reach that goal (which is still a lofty and unlikely to achieve goal) than 2018 would be a success.
            By no means does that mean 6-6 is always a success. So please stop putting words in my mouth, I never said 6-6 would always be considered a success.

          • youngorst
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            Stop trying to claim that your absurd stupid opinion is the only way to be a sports fan. You sound like a sanctimonious jackass.

          • angry angry
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            Claiming the only way they can be a success in 2018 is to reach the Rose Bowl is simply nonsense.

            Yeah. Except I never said that.

            It’s flattering you’re so concerned with my “misery” levels, but if you put half that energy into yourself maybe you wouldn’t be the epitome of the loserdom half of our base. No offense.

          • youngorst
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            If I am saying 6-6 is always a success (which is what you are claiming I am saying) than yes you are saying that a Rose Bowl is the only way to be a success.

            And yes, of course I’d cheer for 6-6 in 2018. That would be a very successful 2018 season.

          • angry angry
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            Don’t remember ever writing that you think 6-6 is always a success. You made it clear, in your own words, that you think success is fluid. That’s the problem and why were are perpetual bottom feeders in football.

          • youngorst
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            Believe me, you can’t offend me. This past few months have made it quite clear that your only enjoyment in life comes from talking shit about everything and anything OSU does. If they starting winning Rose Bowls you’d be complaining that they aren’t in the playoff every year, if they get in the playoff every year you’d bitch they aren’t winning the national title, if they started winning national titles you’d complain that they aren’t winning by enough points, etc….That is all you got.

            You used to have a point but frankly you’ve jumped the shark. You’ve gone from critic to having nothing but hatred for OSU athletics. I guess if that gets you off, so be it.

            You can’t even give a new staff a chance. Enjoy your misery.

          • angry angry
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            I’d phrase it like this, FWIW: 6-6 is an improvement over 1-11, but it’s still a mediocre record that fails to come closet to the goal.

            This acknowledges improvement and failure, which is what that hypothetical would be. That you define 6-6 as “short-term success” makes life easy on the AD and coaches, though.

          • angry angry
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            Lol at rant.
            You done?

          • youngorst
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            I define 6-6 as a success in 2018. Only 2018. In no way does that make it easy on the coaches of the AD. But it does allow the players to feel they accomplished something they can build on.

            If they go 6-6 in 2018 and the message is “neat but it wasn’t 12-0 so……” you aren’t helping get them to 12-0.

            If they go 6-6 in 2018, you set a different 2019 goal.

            If I were setting goals (i.e. success) it would look like this:

            2018: 6+ wins
            2019: 8+ wins
            2020: 9+ wins
            2021 to JS stops being coach: 10+ wins

            Now, this would be failures (I as AD would consider making a change) by year:

            2018: 3 or less wins
            2019: 5 or less wins
            2020: 6 or less wins
            2021-till JS is done: 7 or less wins

            If by 2021 JS is winning 8+ games each and every year than I will be a happy.

            If those are low expectations, guilty as charged. And bullshit that those expectations of success make it easy on the coaches. Few programs have that level of success.

            And before you say, “sounds like Riley”

            Yes, it sounds like Riley from 2006-2009. And honestly, although I was disappointed he couldn’t get them over the hump and win the conference I wouldn’t have fired 2006-2009 Riley. Now from 2010-2014 he failed 4 out of 5 years and therefore a change clearly needed to be made. This became crystal clear in 2011 vs Sacramento State in my view (despite 2012 being a better year).

      • BeavGirl BeavGirl
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        Yep, Jack is correct on this. There is a difference between “improvement” and “success.” It sounds like some fans are confusing/equating the terms and that might explain how we got to where we are today. Having low expectations makes you view a “slightly better’ season as a “success” which is what I fear is going to happen this coming year and everyone is going to circle jerk over Riley all over again.

        • angry angry
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          If the team is worse this year, it will be because GA left the cupboard bare, and if the team is better it will be because the prodigal son & his grandpa are back in town. There will be subsets in the media who want to print the neat story of Riley being selfless and helping out in any way he can and thus implying he’s the reason. Those same people won’t write the opposite if the team is worse. They don’t have the guts.

          The team should be better next year, FWIW, so get ready for all those narratives.

    • beavers4life beavers4life
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      Success is defined as the following:

      the accomplishment of an aim or purpose.
      a person or thing that achieves desired aims or attains prosperity.

      I would say a Pac-12 Title and a Rose Bowl Berth is the aim/purpose. Always has been. National Championship would be the next highest aim/purpose. Every teams goal should and is the Pac-12 Title in all sports. Look at Pat Casey in Baseball, his goal/aim has always been a national Championship; and he expects the same from his players.

      I would say reaching a bowl game in year 2-3 would be good progress towards success, but I would not say it be successful. The short-term success sure, but the long-term success absolutely not.

      • Jack Jack
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        Agreed.

        But considering that there’s a lot of luck involved, I’ll accept just getting to the CCG as being a successful season… given it’s not because first and second place in your division are on probation or something… and given you win it once in a while.

        Iowa’s pattern plus a conference championship banner once a decade would be acceptable. Put another way, I’d rather have Hayden Fry than Kirk Ferentz.

      • youngorst
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        You really think Pat Casey expected a national championship in 1995? Of course not, He understood the program had to be built to reach that level. Based on the standards of this board Casey should have been fired by around 1998 and would have never survived until 2005. I mean, his teams never finished better than 6th place in the unified conference. Talk about a failure. Should have been fired right?

        • beavers4life beavers4life
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          Small ball, take what you can get is Pat Casey’s mindset. He has done this with his players. Yes, he wasn’t great in the late 90’s early 00’s, but he did also have to do his own fundraising. Football should, in essence, fund raise itself with the right coaching staff, and winning attitude by the players. Coach Casey is a strategist and fundamentals coach. Smith and Co. I hope are the same way. They won’t win recruiting battles right away(nor did Pat Casey), but they will if they can coach players up, recruit the areas of need each year, and they have a high graduation rate, and help players reach their goals. Not every player has a goal to be “In the League”. Players they recruited this year in their Bio have stated the following: Electrical Engineer, Police Officer or League, FBI, Business Marketing/Entrepreneur, etc. Things OSU are great at in regards to Academics! Sell the Academics first and foremost, and go after top rated players in areas you know can lead to the League(CB, LB, OL, QB, etc.)

          • angry angry
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            They might not have the goal of being “In the League”, but I’m sure every one who suits up wants to win the Pac-12. If not, they shouldn’t be playing.

  • marcodg marcodg
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    This is all fascinating stuff. I don’t know how one sorts out success when one considers short and long term goals. Does it make sense to have a short term goal of getting to 0.500 (in which case by a definition above one could classify it as success)? Is this just “short term success?” At least this would give a sense of accomplishment which is important. If we treat success/failure as purely binary with an excluded middle then I’m uncertain of what that would mean. Do you even bother playing?

    Not sure I buy the “psycological trauma” thing. Trauma is an acute event. 28 years is pretty chronic. I can definitely see the inferiority complex though. I feel it in myself.

    Let me add a slightly different dimension. I don’t believe that the pro-Riley camp is OK with mediocrity in and of itself. We tend (as humans) to want to be right. We have a set of beliefs and we want to validate them or at least provide nuance and evidence that they would be validated had these other conditions not arisen. What is equally important is to prove the other guy that believes the opposite is wrong.

    Add into this morass a [conjecture] small number of individuals control the majority of the funding.

    Let me ask this hypothetical question. As a thought experiment assume that the Beavs win the PAC-12 north in 2020 with RIley in tow. Is the hiring of MR validated? (I recognize that many of you say “no” because of reasons orthogonal to coaching… ignore that for now.) Would the anti-Riley contingent declare that the success would be in-spite-of his presence?

    Corollary: If the Beavs go 1-11 in 2020. Is it Riley’s fault?

    (I realize this question is somewhat vacuous and if you assume an absurdity, you can derive any result you want.)

    • angry angry
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      Take OldBeav, who is learning how to fingerpick guitar. If he views going from not being able to do it at all to flubbing half the notes, is he a success? Not to me. Nobody would watch him play live. He has to execute all notes, all the time, with zero error. That’s the goal. Improvement helps morale for the player during hard times/learning. That’s all it’s good for. Improvement helps morale of the fanbase, too, but when the fanbase confuses improvement or morale with actual success that is unfortunate and leads to the problems we have.

      • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav
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        “Improvement helps morale for the player during hard times/learning. That’s all it’s good for. “

        I wonder if some here don’t realize that, while improvement is not success, it is still a very good thing. It’s just not the end goal. It isn’t success.

        How much more excitement, enthusiasm, even donations would characterize the fan base if the team went, even, 4-8 next season? The problem with some of the fan base, as with MR, is a lack of vision for what is actually possible with CONTINUED focus and sincere competitiveness.

        I cannot understand those who fail to see MR’s lack of focus and competitiveness, especially over the last decade. A decade of inattention to detail, lack of drive for perfection, and satisfaction with mediocre staff and results.

        Now, about fingerpicking. Morale here has been helped by getting that alternate bass down and adding a couple treble notes. Looking forward to going beyond G and D!! It strikes me that angry’s mention here is an added motivator; much as this site can be viewed as a motivator for fans who can recognize the difference between improvement and success. GO BEAVS! DON’T SETTLE!

        • angry angry
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          If you want to be a great finger picker you will be, Old Beav.

          Improvement is not success but it is a good thing for morale as you work toward success, yes.

      • marcodg marcodg
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        Are you saying success is perfection? Corollary: is not-success = failure?

  • Ripper
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    I don’t see the words “Rose Bowl” or “X wins” in here anywhere. It would be interesting to know what JS has as his “aim or purpose” for the next few years.

    suc·cess
    [s?k?ses]

    NOUN
    the accomplishment of an aim or purpose:

    synonyms: favorable outcome · successfulness · successful result · triumph · Hollywood ending
    the attainment of popularity or profit:

    • angry angry
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      Yeah.
      Does anyone think our players start a season with the goal of 6-6? You don’t do things you love with that type of goal in mind, and if you do, you don’t belong in the profession.

      That some fans view 6-6 as success is our problem. The same fan, in this thread, is laughing at the post. Again, this is the problem. I challenged these people to look at themselves and how they perpetuate the problem, and instead they would rather attack me.

      • BeavGirl BeavGirl
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        That would actually be upsetting to me if the team was okay with and aimed for a 6-6 year.

        The highest achievement possible should always be the goal, every year, no exceptions. I’m sure that’s how the team feels, otherwise, what’s the point of even playing? They’re competitive athletes, of course they are aiming high. Fans who don’t align with the team’s own expectations should probably rethink some things.

        • youngorst
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          Fans who don’t align their own expectations with that of the team is normal.

          I am sure every member of the Cleveland Browns ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl next year. I doubt most Browns fans consider a Super Bowl championship to the be only way to have a successful 2018.

          Fans and players don’t have to sync up nor should they.

          If you want to have only one way of enjoying a college football season as a fan so be it but telling other fans how they should/can react to a season is ridiculous. Every fan is entitled to enjoy the sport in whatever way they see fit.

          • angry angry
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            Brown fans are part of that problem.
            Yeah, fans are entitled to enjoy the sport how they see fit, but I’m entitled to tell a certain faction that in doing so they’re making the problem worse. We’re so libertarian!

          • youngorst
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            Except you are wrong. Oregon State fans considering a 6-6 season a successful 2018 are in no way making any problem worse (mostly because you are wrong that a problem even exists in the first place).

            So while you are entitled to tell people whatever you want, you aren’t entitled to a fake reality.

          • BeavGirl BeavGirl
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            Sure, everyone is entitled to having their own expectations. But other people can also tell you that those expectations are shitty.

            For example, I have the right to have an opinion that the earth is flat but other people also have the right to tell me I’m wrong. Nobody is trying to silence anyone. Seems like Angry is trying to point out that certain fan mindsets can be harmful to the whole culture, not silence anyone.

          • youngorst
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            Except he is wrong.

            The majority of every fanbase (not just OSU) would consider 6-6 in 2018 a success given the previous 3 seasons.

            So his conclusion that only loser fans think that way means the majority of every fanbase is full of loser fans. And despite most fanbases being full of loser fans plenty of programs have tons of success so if those loser fans aren’t hurting the culture at UW (for instance since they recently had a 6-6 ‘success’ according to fans) than why would those loser fans be hurting the culture at OSU?

          • youngorst
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            For the record, I’d argue claiming other fans are damaged or that somehow being miserable makes a better fan (basically this post from angry) does more damage to any culture than someone enjoying a 6-6 season.

          • angry angry
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            Show me where anyone writes being miserable makes someone a good fan. Wow, you are taking this post and running it through the hamster wheel!

          • Jack Jack
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            Poor example. While it’s just a business (making it also a poor comparitor) the Brown management is a complete mess. Many players are only in that program to just get a paycheck from the league. They don’t have any fantasies of a Super Bowl until the obvious leadership issues are resolved.

            College players come out to new expectations every year. The world is still theirs until someone beats it out of them. If that someone is the low expectations of fans, I would say those expectations don’t equal college fanaticism. No decent P5 college team is so far away from the top level of the product that good coaching and irrational expectations can’t propel them there. Only poor coaching, blase expectations or outright sabotage can dampen that spirit.

            Saying you’re going to win it all and getting your ass handed to you is better than saying you just want to be maybe competitive most of the time… and still getting your ass handed to you.

          • angry angry
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            ^ Bingo.

      • youngorst
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        Because we aren’t the problem. You are simply wrong.

        Players shouldn’t have any goal beyond the next game. Their only goal should be to win the next game.

        Fans who wouldn’t view 6-6 as a success in 2018 are in the minority. Guess what, this would be true at any school coming off a 1-11. If Alabama went 7-29 over a 3 year stand and brought in a new coach even the fans of Alabama would consider 6-6 the next year a success.

        Its not just Oregon State fans that think that way. Every fan base does. Every Husky fan I know (and that is the majority of my family) was very excited about the 2010 Holiday Bowl after a 6-6 season. Its a normal reaction of virtually all fans.

        • angry angry
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          It’s easier to attack me than have high expectations that get dashed (this is painful for sports fans, so they hamster wheel). Easier to set the bar low and not be disappointed. People do this in all aspects of their life, and you’re doing it with sports.

          Go on twitter and ask players their goals. See if a single one writes “6-6” or “to be average”. Then get back to me with how normal a thought it is.

          • youngorst
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            Fans aren’t players

            I’ll repeat

            Fans aren’t players

            You can have whatever expectations you want. What I am attacking you for is acting as if you have some moral high ground or that fans with different expectations than you are somehow hurting the program. They aren’t. Have whatever expectations you want. I don’t care. Be miserable, that seems to be what makes you the happiest. But accusing others with different expectations of being damaged is sanctimonious bullshit.

            You aren’t a better fan because you are miserable. Sorry, to break that to you.

          • youngorst
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            And fyi, I bet many players would say “go to a bowl” which is achieved by going 6-6.

            But I have no interest in asking players their goals because fans aren’t players.

            What I consider a success doesn’t have to match what the players consider a success because (say it with me)…….Fans aren’t players…..

          • Beavlover69
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            Pretty spot on there youngorst

          • Jack Jack
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            The only issue I have with your obstinence is that you would admit that home-field advantage has nothing to do with the fans. As much as you don’t want the fans to be players, the fans as a whole are a player.

  • Beavlover69
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    All this nonsense only proves that the only guy in beaver nation that eats sleeps and breathes Mike Riley is my man Angry himself. Get some help my dude, the gum chewer is your own personal Freddie Kruger

    • angry angry
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      I use the word Riley twice, and not until points 7 and 8, and not once in the comment section. Those pesky facts.

  • Beavlover69
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    Should add that there’s plenty of insightful stuff in this post. Just kinda sad that he finds some way to attach Bikin Mike to everything he talks about

    • angry angry
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      Again, Riley is mentioned twice, and only as an example of fan mindset.

      From above: I challenged these people to look at themselves and how they perpetuate the problem, and instead they would rather attack me.

      Keep whistling past the graveyard while shooting the messenger.

      • Beavlover69
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        “I called these people I know nothing about losers and instead of fixing their mundane lives they attacked me! What gives??”

        Lmao

    • scotty
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      Riley is the embodiment of the mediocrity worshipped by too many beaver fans.

      • Jack Jack
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        Riley of a decade ago is that embodiment.

        Riley now is a shell of that, propped up by standing ovations and his family sabotaging the team he really wants to be a coach of again.

  • bleedorange
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    Wow! Dumbest thread ever.

    • scotty
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      ^ Really contributing and elevating the conversation in said thread

      • youngorst
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        Sometimes the truth is short and sweet. This is by far the dumbest post I’ve read on this board. Angry is losing his mind.

      • bleedorange
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        It needed to be said. I am not a psychologist but I do have a degree in psychology and this assertion has no legs to stand on. This is strictly an opinion formed out of frustration.

        • beavergopher beavergopher
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          I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

        • Jack Jack
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          This can be discussed instead of the ad hominems. I see fault in the terminology, but I can also read the over-arching point. And that point is correct. He’s not saying that we should just dive into illusory superiority. He’s saying that low expectations in one sector are indicative of low expectations in all sectors.
          https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/729874

          The crowd who derives happiness from achieving low expectations eschews the details because they can’t seem to handle even the slightest of failures. What i think he’s trying to do is apply PTSS to that crowd, thus explaining their conflation of mediocrity with success.

          Sure, there are problems with it. But to call it the dumbest post ever is to admit you can’t think deeply enough to figure out what is being said rather than pick at the loose threads.

  • angry angry
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    It’s like Battered Woman Syndrome around here, where if a guy doesn’t hit his wife for a month that’s “success”.

    I’m dubbing a new term: Battered Beaver Syndrome.

    Beavgopher is gonna love that one.

  • Alpha Alpha
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    I like this thread, fuck the old guard

    • angry angry
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      They’re putting up quite a fight today, but all I’m seeing is Battered Beaver Syndrome in action.
      They’re proving my point for me. It’s awesome.

      • youngorst
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        Yeah, you are right. It must be those lower UW fans that celebrated going to the Holiday Bowl in 2010 that caused UW to lose to Alabama in the 2016 playoffs. That must be it. Those stupid loser fans infected the roster….If only someone had made up some stupid syndrome to describe them those Huskies would have been national champs.

        Okay, I am convinced. OSU must win the national title to be a success. Now I’m helping right? Lol….

        • angry angry
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          I’m sure every fan base has problem fans. It sounds like you’re pointing out some at UW.

          • youngorst
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            Yep, fans like you that aren’t really fans. Those are the real problem. Admit it, you have become nothing but a pathetic critic who believe he knows more than anyone else. You stopped being a fan long ago.

          • angry angry
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            Hamster wheelin’!

            Good luck with all that.

          • Angry@angry
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            Youngorst seeing the light today!!

          • angry angry
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            “I work in the athletic department; don’t rock the ship.”

          • Angry@angry
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            Angry, remember when you told everyone you had my IP address? apparently not when you keep saying I work for OSU. Looks like you got to that about as good as you will these horrible “rumblings”.

      • Alpha Alpha
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        They’re delusional dimwits

  • ObjCritic
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    OT – this ought to be good for a few laughs:

    “Willie Taggart Reflects on the Winding Road to His Dream Job”

    https://www.si.com/college-football/2018/02/12/willie-taggart-florida-state-seminoles-oregon

    ““You know you’re going to get criticism,” Taggart said, “but when you’ve been chasing something all your life and something you’ve worked really hard for, it shouldn’t matter what anyone else thinks.”

    See, Taggart has dreams and a work ethic….integrity if you will.

  • Mechanical Man
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    The 2013 campaign was so back and forth. First the loss to Eastern Washington, then 6 straight wins, then 5 losses. I won’t even consider the bowl game as a win.

    I can understand why, during the six game win streak, Riley’s position in the program was justified. What lost that justification was the 69-27 loss to Washington. Poof. Gone. That game should have gotten Riley fired. I cannot take any pro-Riley arguments seriously unless those individuals can justify (what was at the time) the worst loss in OSU football history.

    That 6-6 campaign was a catastrophe overall. I got so sick of hearing family and friends say “oh we played the Ducks close by a point”. That game was won, and lost multiple times. I agree with several on here that in order to get to where the program needs to be (Holiday Bowl), the program needs to take steps, and 7-6 is one of them (preferably by year 3.) But to say that’s our ceiling is justification towards shunning that faction of the Beaver fanbase.

    • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav
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      Bingo. STEPS need to be taken, but should not be confused with the GOAL.

      • youngorst
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        No one is claiming 7-6 is the goal

        But….

        Achieving a step towards a larger goal is a success.

        • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav
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          Re-read items 4 and 5 of the original post.

          • marcodg marcodg
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            If you don’t succeed are you a failure? If the goal is perfection and we don’t achieve it (as we cannot) are we doomed? This is a pretty nihilistic train of thought. Is improvement the only thing that matters?

          • youngorst
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            Reading it once cost me enough IQ points I sure as fuck ain’t reading it again.

          • Jack Jack
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            If you don’t succeed are you a failure?

            I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised when people who conflate mediocrity with success think the argument is about conflating mediocrity with failure.

          • angry angry
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            Thanks for tackling this strand.

        • Beavocalypse
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          Dude.

          How many baby steps were we going to give Riley…after nearly a decade?

          His performance was predictable, there was nothing happening toward a larger goal, and hiring him back is proof of everything this article suggests.

          • youngorst
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            Riley is not the head coach, Riley is not the head coach, Riley is not the head coach.

            Hiring him back is proof of literally nothing other than proof that Smith wanted him on his staff.

          • Jack Jack
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            Riley shouldn’t have been the head coach in 2003. Riley shouldn’t have been the head coach in 2003. Riley shouldn’t have been the head coach in 2003.

            His disloyalty was rewarded. And re-rehiring him after he quit yet again is proof that OSU is a complete mess with no standards, let alone standards of success. I don’t care if he’s Vince Lombardi’s doppleganger and you can guarantee that we’ll go undefeated every year for ten years with him at the helm. HE DOES NOT GET TO SHIT ON MY UNIVERSITY ONCE, LET ALONE MULTIPLE TIMES, THEN COME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            The mediocrity was predictable but ancillary. That he came back once was an indication that we had severe low self-esteem. Twice is just garbage time.

            And it’s not like this schism wasn’t also predictable. The man does not deserve to be employed by OSU.

            Period.

  • angry angry
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    Mike Parker needs to go.
    The way he scoffs at callers is disgusting. Might have to start my own radio show or podcast, because the options out there are dismal.

    • marcodg marcodg
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      Isn’t he part of state-run media?

    • Angry@angry
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      That’s guaranteed to be a failure. Who wants to listen to how the sky is falling and the world is gonna end. But I would LOVE to see you put your money where your mouth is.

      • angry angry
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        Nostradamus over here. Yeah sure, just like my blog was sure to be a failure, and McM would never start for OSU. A@A has become the best contrarian indicator out there — what are your thoughts on the stock market?

        • Angry@angry
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          I never said your blog was a failure… you mentioned selling it once and I commented how it probably wouldn’t sell for much money but you’ve since said that never took place. But why do you even care what I say? By all means, put your money where your mouth is.

          • angry angry
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            Well, I might, which is what I said. It should have ended there. But then you tried to turn it into drama with your Nostradamus prowess.

    • helmsley
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      Are you aware that halftime of the UW OSU mbb game MP crowed about the MR standing ovation at the signing dinner?

      • angry angry
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        No. What did he say?

        • helmsley
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          I seem to recall it had to do with the # of people at the signing-day dinner and the nicest thing of all – standing ovation for Mike Riley.

          • cj cj
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            Damn!

            I was going to post,
            “Fuck everyone who talks about Mike Riley”,
            but then I realized that to do that I’d be talking about him….so I changed my mind.

            What a dilemma….

      • GreatSwammi
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        What’s MP supposed to do….talk crap about Riley. Of course he’s going to compliment Riley and slobber all over him. Riley’s an institution with the blue hairs in Corvallis. He’s a perfect fit for that one foot in the grave crowd, Mayberry like community….he grew up in an era when Aunt Bee and Opie were the talk of Mayberry.

  • Ripper
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    OT but of more concern to me at the moment, can the women keep from getting their pockets picked at UCLA and USC this weekend?

    • Jack Jack
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      I guarantee they can.

    • GreatSwammi
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      I’ve watched several of the women’s games live at Gill this season. I must say that Aleah Goodman has proven wrong. I didn’t think she was ready for this level of play and she has been spectacular the last few games. However, we shall see this weekend against better competition in UCLA and USC. Personally, I still have more confidence in Katie Mac bringing the ball up court as she has great court awareness, has enough length to throw the ball over the top of the defense when they’re pressuring full court, and now seems to have regained her confidence in her perimeter game. That said, for a Freshman, AG has come along way in a very short period of time. She still over dribbles but not as as earlier this season and she’s looking to penetrate and pass when the defense collapses on the penetration.

      The key to beating UCLA: 1) recognize the traps early, 2) don’t dribble into the corners and then pick up the dribble, 3) ball movement, 4) off the ball movement, 5) staggered set on inbound plays, 6) on inbound plays, players must avoid going into the corners to receive passes…that’s a perfect situation for a trap and a steal, 6) use Gulich’s height to help relieve the press by using her as an outlet (mid-court, free throw line, etc.), 7) attack the press and make UCLA pay for pressing…don’t play passively….attack, attack, attack 8) let Katie Mac take the ball handling responsibilities as she more adept than Pivec, 9) get Tudor off early, double screens, staggered screens to get her open looks,,,,,

      I’ll be sitting court side giving the refs an earful (as usual and deservedly so). Oh, one last thing, make UCLA’s defense pay for collapsing on Gulich by hitting the open 3s…move the ball. That should about cover the formula for beating UCLA.

      • Helmsley
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        I couldn’t recall who questioned her ability earlier this season. I think you were right then & now.

        • Jack Jack
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          She’s a frosh, and he was attacking the whole of her career based on her first couple conference games.

          He was waaayyyyy off in his assessment of her then. But the correction is appreciated.

          This is the time of year you will see the frosh start to get their sea legs. This time next year will tell you what kind of career arc they can have in their upperclass years.

      • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav
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        Sounds like a good plan. Numbers 1,2 and the first #6 especially.
        I plan to be at Gill as well, not enough of a high roller to be courtside but will join you in giving the refs an earful. Speaking of which, since Rueck’s T and reprimand it seems the refs have been more likely to see things the right way.

  • helmsley
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    At least one win – other perimeter shooters, Katie McWilliams, Aleah Goodman, coming along. Pressure, turnovers – we’ll see.

  • ohiobeav
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    Youngorst,
    Are you convinced that OSU athletics really believes they could ever win the North, then the Pac12, then a Rose bowl?

    I’m not convinced that anyone inside the big donor/booster/administration/athletic dept has ever really belived this is possible. Lot’s of platitudes to that direction, but very little to show for it.

    If these key people don’t believe it is possible and hope for something like 8 wins because it is more realistic, is that a problem to you or is that just how it is because this is Corvallis not Austin, TX or Columbus, OH?

    Am I delusional for thinking that these people ought to be thinking and expecting to win the North, Pac12, and a Rose Bowl?

    Does any team recruit with “well the reality is kid, we can never win the conference, so come to our school for the education and the sports stuff is just part of your experience.”?

    If I thought the Beavs were recruiting in this manner, then why should I spend any money to support that? What is there to sell tickets to fans? How can that be an honest product if it isn’t an attempt to win the North, Pac12, and Rose Bowl?

    I appreciate all of your comments about where the difference lies between your view and Angry, but is it possible that accepting 6-6 as a modicum of success in the process of competitive only gets so far and will never result in what I thought was every Beaver fans hope:Rose Bowl. Apparently some beaver fans only hope for a Holiday Bowl, Las Vegas Bowl.

    • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav
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      Good points, ohio.
      I do, however, find it difficult to appreciate ALL of youngorst’s comments when they include:
      “I sure as fuck ain’t reading it again”
      “Angry is losing his mind”
      “You sound like a sanctimonious jackass.”

    • wannabeav
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      they believed in the Dennis Erickson era. They touted season tickets as a way of guaranteeing access to Rose Bowl tickets, and the post game show in 99-02 was billed as “the road to the Rose Bowl.” That all stopped when you know who came to town.

  • Angry@angry
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    A lot of people here seem to like the idea of ditching Nike for Under Armour… thinking along those lines, when UA started, Nike kicked their ass year after year. So Plank should’ve just quit right cuz his goal was to compete and someday beat Nike.

    I’m sure Angry will have some theory as to how you can’t compare the two or whatever. But screw him. The world isn’t ending. If you hate all the top Beavs so much, don’t be a Beav

    • Jack Jack
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      Again, a business is a poor comparitor. But why do you guys have to pick businesses that have poorly performing management to make comparisons to Oregon State?

      That says a lot in itself.

      Ftr, I’m in favor of the individual sports going back to choosing sport-specific gear. Aong the same lines of this overall discussion, we accept mediocrity when we accept Nike for everything. Their shoes/cleats blow out at a greater rate and are a narrower fit across the board. Their “tech” is ill-conceived… but it looks pretty.

      UA isn’t any better at anything. They decided to take on Nike in what Nike does, being cool. If they had decided to set a goal of being better, which isn’t that high a bar, they wouldn’t be the mess they are today.

      I guess we seem to think that a collectivist attitude is good when it comes to Nike gear. I also guarantee sport specific gear would aid in recruiting, rather than lazily suggesting that because Nike is cool, that’s what matters in recruiting.

      • Jack Jack
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        Oddly, the outlier once again would be Pat Casey. He recognized that being cool was costing him games, and he demanded he be allowed to give his players the best equipment.

        Pat Casey does not accept mediocrity.

        • Angry@angry
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          I’d love to hear about how PC saw that being cool was costing him games

          • ReverendBeav
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            I believe he’s referring to switching back to DeMarini bats and Wilson A2000 gloves. Both superior to what Nike had been producing.

          • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav
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            Spot on, Rev.
            Once again facts trump snark.

          • Angry@angry
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            Casey also gets a nice check from 3 equipment manufacturers rather than 1. But that wouldn’t fly with Jacks opinion

          • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav
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            Sheesh, “Casey also gets a nice check from 3 equipment manufacturers rather than 1”

            So, is Nike recognized as better than DeMarini? Than Wilson A2000? Has Casey produced results?

            Call Moran if you think there is something nefarious here, just don’t expect to distract from the point by changing the discussion.

          • Jack Jack
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            Casey also gets a nice check from 3 equipment manufacturers rather than 1. But that wouldn’t fly with Jacks opinion

            You think caring about your student athletes enough to give them every advantage you can is an opinion?

            Interesting.

            I’m giving you a solid example of someone who pays attention to details, because a failure to do so is just that, a failure. When you begin with a failure, you think it’s an opinion that your foundation is flawed, thus limiting your upside?

            You would be wrong.

      • helmsey
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        Business not a good comparison? Either in price or quality of features, I would wonder about a business that bought everything from one supplier.

        • Jack Jack
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          Their mandates are just different. While there are aspects to both that are similar, they exist and operate for different reasons.

          I understand the lines have been blurred as of late. But I would contend that’s a corruption, not a sustainable or even healthy model.

    • Doozeldorf Doozeldorf
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      You and youngorst use ridiculous extremes like, if you don’t achieve your goal you should just quit. Or, if your a fan and your team doesn’t achieve their goal you will be miserable. That’s weak logic. No fan is going to be miserable if the Beavs go 6-6 next year, but we shouldn’t say “Yay, you achieved your goal!”. If JS goes 6-6 next year, and the year after that, and the year after that, and the year after that, etc., should we as fans claim success?

    • Alpha Alpha
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      People hate Riley not the Beavs… not sure how you can’t see that?

      • Jack Jack
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        I hate the game, not the player. But don’t pretend a player doesn’t have a choice to play or not to play, then extoll false virtues… then be naively surprised when you receive a backlash worthy of such faulty reason.

  • Angry@angry
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    Thanks doozeldork, neither youngorst or myself said anything about going 6-6 year after year being a success. Going from 1-11 to 6-6 in one year is an impressive turnaround.

    • GreatSwammi
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      I wouldn’t consider 6-6 an impressive turnaround….I would consider it a miracle after going 1-11. I wonder if JS turns this program around in 2-3 years with the help of Riley what those ardent detractors of Riley will say then? I’m not a supporter or detractor of Riley’s return, I figure it couldn’t get any worse than it was under GA. At least Riley didn’t run off the Beaver’s most talented players in the program including the only QB we had with any starting experience going into last season (MM). We might as well get used to the idea Riley is going to be here until he retires. They’ll probably rename the field after him too (Vanilla Riley). Getting back to potential wins next year…if the Beavs get 3 wins, that will be a big improvement over 2017….

      • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav
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        “…it couldn’t get any worse than it was under GA”…….now there’s a high bar! And exactly the kind of thinking which will lead to renaming of the field after him.

        • GreatSwammi
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          You gotta start somewhere….it’s certainly not going to happen overnight. And, yes, anything will be an improvement over Andersen even if it means another few bad seasons. I’m pragmatic and do realize as opposed to some other fans that this rebuild is going to take time and patience. Anyone that doesn’t understand that fact, well, then they’re being unrealistic IMO. If JS can get the Beavs to where they consistently win 7-8 games and go to bowl games, I think that’s a reasonable outlook for a small market team like the Beavs. Sure, it would be nice to get 9, 10 or 11 wins in 4-5 years and that could happen I suppose, but being pragmatist that I am, I’m not sure that will happen. So, I will settle for 8-4 or 9-3 and hope he can do better ….maybe even win the North. who knows but at least I’m willing to give JS and Riley a shot.

          • ohiobeav
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            The same phrases get old- not overnight, anything, rebuild, patience, unrealistic, reasonable, small market, settle, hope, maybe, at least, Riley a shot

            You may say creative editing but it tells the story without needing change much anyway.

            What I’d like to see is something similar to Harbaugh’s attitude going into Michigan and Stanford. He raised expectations immediately, created a mentality, and demanded effort to pull off the turn-around within a very short time.

            I won’t say JS has intentionally lowered expectations, but he hasn’t done anything beyond capitalizing on a fanbase’s fond memories of the Fiesta bowl.

            I’m looking forward to seeing the new DC and his style of D, though. I want the Beavs to get used to 10-12 win seasons as the norm. If Wisconsin can, why can’t the Beavs? Stop telling us we aren’t realistic. It’s college football, OSU is a great school. Don’t undersell and bash to fit such a tired narrative and then knock those who prefer to long for more than 7-6 or 8-4.

          • angry angry
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            but at least I’m willing to give JS and Riley a shot.

            Who isn’t giving Smith a shot? It was a pretty good hire…until he hired his grandpa.

          • Ripper
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            You really don’t mean “JS and Riley”, do you? How about JS and his staff? As in his whole staff.

          • angry angry
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            The same phrases get old- not overnight, anything, rebuild, patience, unrealistic, reasonable, small market, settle, hope, maybe, at least, Riley a shot

            Funny, I was going to make a post about words that need to be banned from the Beaver lexicon. I had hope, neat, deal, gosh, shucks, he’s not the head coach, one of us, proud, pride, and loyal.

            Over and over with these words. I find myself using “hope” too much. It’s all you can do as a Beaver.

            Regarding Harbaugh, yes, that’s the way to do it. Our headcoach was crying during his presser, and fans ate it up. Now, he might be good because he does seem smart, but crying about nostalgia was not a good first impression (except to the old guard — they loved it).

          • GreatSwammi
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            Well, let’s check the facts..Corvallis is a small market……check, osu coming off 1-11 season… check, no quality experiences QB…check, OSU is not Wisconsin or Michigan in terms of a strong winning tradition….check. completely new coaching staff and new offensive and defensive schemes to learn and adapt to…..check, currently razor thin in talent and depth…..check, decent and improved facilities compared to really successful programs in the conference but still a half finished stadium….check. until they are able to uncheck several of these boxes, it’s going to take time for a rebuild…you may not like it or want to hear it…..but those at the facts right now
            ..that’s the reality of the situation like it or not…

            I could be way off in my assessment of the current situation nut based on the facts I don’t think so. I guess time will tell…..

          • Jack Jack
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            Being a small market only matters when considering compensation for a head coach. It’s difficult to tie X% of revenues to Y+ revenues when you can only put so many butts in seats. The obvious way to overcome this would be to guarantee higher compensation to cover that lost opportunity. Management that succumbs to fear of this risk is destined to make choices which inhibit their potential. You bringing it up means you’re focusing on the negatives, not the people who enable them.

            Last season has nothing to do with a potential outcome for next season if the reasons for last season’s outcome are removed. One thing not removed would be the talent, which is pretty good but was poorly served by coaching, which has been removed. A similar outcome would mean that the coaching is simply not better. You giving the new coach the space to fail because of low expectations is focusing on the negatives again. You don’t think the new coach can take the talent on hand and serve them well. One can only conclude you don’t think very highly of their abilities. Perhaps only Illinois has any excuse to be a poor team next year in the P5. Other unknown things outside the control of some coaches (injuries, unfavorable weather, etc.) will knock others down. But almost every P5 roster is at least a .500 team waiting to be coached properly. Everything else is an excuse.

            Winning tradition… sort of the point of this thread. A winning tradition is formed with a winning mindset, one not afraid to know failure in order to find success. We are stuck in mediocrity with no standards for success because we choose to remain there, not because of the past. Every school didn’t have a winning tradition before they earned one. They didn’t earn by adhering to bullshit excuses which focus constantly on the negative.

            I’ll give a little for a coaching change and new schemes. But I won’t give much. There is a learning curve in football than there is in much of life because of the “It’s not what you know, it’s who you know,” aspect of market entry for coaching labor. There are just a lot of meatheads out there holding down jobs because they rode someone’s coattails. If you think 9 is one of them–that his schemes, process and abilities are insufficient–then I would have to agree with your expectations. I don’t because I am an optimist. But that doesn’t mean I don’t see when someone completely steps in the doo like when Bikey was re-rehired. Small-timing life like that creates very serious doubt on the potential upsides.

            Razor thin at talent and depth is just bullshit, complete and utter.

            Training facilities and the actual playing surface are the only factors that play into this argument. The stadium layout excuse is cosmetic bullshit. We have top of the line training facilities. If you don’t like the color, that’s on you.

            A rebuild does not excuse failure. That’s why GA is gone. The common outcome for a good coach in a rebuild is to take the talent on hand and to be mediocre in the first year, regress in the second year then build back to mediocre in the third year, succeeding beyond that. That’s just the numbers. Poor coaches emulate their predecessors or regress in the first year and rarely do better if the predecessor was a good coach. Them’s just the numbers.

            If you don’t think .500 ball is attainable for this team, you’re focusing way too much on the negatives, and you don’t think our new coach is ready to be a head coach. The latter is fine if you simply admit it. The one chance for success you are leaving your scenario is that 9 will learn on the job, going from being a bad coach to being a good one in (I think you said) 3-4 years.

            All other excuses are bullshit. Just admit that you don’t think 9 is a good coach for now, and you’re willing to be patient with his immediate failure in order to gain mediocrity at a much later date… and maybe/hopefully success beyond that… at an even later date.

    • Doozeldorf Doozeldorf
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      “Impressive turnaround”, exactly. That I agree with. But does impressive turnaround = success for the football team? Not to me.

      • Angry@angry
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        So at the end of the season if the Beavs went 6-6, you’d say man another failed season, but this one was impressive.

        ??

        • Jack Jack
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          Why are you guys conflating mediocrity with failure? It’s as dumb as conflating mediocrity with success… and a straw man.

  • Angry@angry
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    Angry could we please add hospital balls and warts to the list of terms not able
    to use here?

    • Jack Jack
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      I don’t understand why you don’t understand warts. Do you imagine perfection because of an appeal authority? Or are you afraid to look at the details in order to mitigate weaknesses because admitting that you/I/we/they have weaknesses would be admitting what you think is a failure that can’t be overcome?

      • angry angry
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        He works in the athletic department and loves the status quo.

        • Angry@angry
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          As you claim to know, my IP address isn’t at OSU or really anywhere near Corvallis.

          Jack, when it comes to Pat Casey having warts, he’s probably the best coach in any sport OSU will ever have, and I truly enjoy getting to watch it. Not to mention saying that someone has “warts” is really stupid, and even more annoying.

          • Jack Jack
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            See?

            What you think is stupid is just everyday life. Everyone has warts.

            Everyone.

            Why do you have an issue with that? It’s like you want to live in some fairyland with lollipops made of unicorn scat.

          • angry angry
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            Casey has warts. Mostly bunting, but a few others like Gabe Clark in the 4 spot. Deal with it.

  • ObjCritic
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    OT:

    Austin Meek, columnist at the Eugene Register-Guard, on UO’s Cristobal:

    “I’m not totally sold on the vision and the direction for what they’re doing because Oregon’s had such a distinct identity for some time… he wants to come in and play SEC football. He wants the big offensive lineman. He’s all about the fourth-quarter thing Nick Saban buys into… I just think it’s such a big change from what they’ve done in the past.”

    I didn’t realize that’s where Cristobal is trying to head with the program. I don’t think he’ll win big or last too long, but if he is going to try to change the direction of the program more power to him. Going from “blur” offense with holding all over the field and burying opponents with points early to big o-lineman and playing through 4th quarter contests is a change in mindset I’m not sure they can handle well or one for which the fan base will have much patience.

  • marcodg marcodg
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    All this talk of success and failure got me thinking a bit about what OSU should be selling recruits. Other schools have their shtick, what should ours be? Here’s my idea: the future. There should be robots wandering around Valley that players can ask them stuff like “is there a line at the barber shop?”, “get me a kale smoothie” or “bring me a towel. VR and AR should be ubiquitous. Hologram artwork.

    This ties in to the strong engineering program at the school. It would a very concrete thing that recruits canb touch and interact with unlike “family atmosphere” or “bring your lunchpail”. You might be able to actually get tech companies like NVidia (CEO is an OSU grad) to help.

    Stupid? Yeah, probably… on with the bickering.

  • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav
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    OT: Not too far up above ohiobeav mentioned “looking forward to seeing the new DC and his style of D”
    I’m in the same camp and wonder if many here feel the same.

    Tibesar presents a serious and very organized image, his specific areas of emphasis don’t sound like coach speak boilerplate to me. I could be mistaken, maybe others I’ve not heard use the same language.

    But when Parker first interviewed him I was impressed that he, without hesitation, listed specific fundamentals and outlined the steps he will take to ingrain those into his players. One area was how important tackling is to EVERY defensive player and how he plans to teach tackling every day and yet avoid excessive exposure to injury risk. Another area was the steps to successfully defeating blocks. This was all mentioned in a previous thread here.

    I see him as an outsider with an organized approach. I hope the environment in which he works will be supportive.

    • ObjCritic
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      I agree with your assessment and the way he presented himself and his planned emphasis was very direct, refreshing, and sounded like what the team needs; an emphasis on fundamentals. I expect the existing roster to play D much better than it did under the previous regime with better tackling and teamwork. There is talent on the D roster (though maybe not the depth for the D line) and by midseason it should be surprising opponents. I hope Morris can get back on the field by fall camp as I think he could be an emerging leader based on his ability/play, but not sure if that is realistic with his injury. I think the D and the O need leaders to step up and develop, and Morris could be one on the D.

      It has been a long time since it was enjoyable to watch an OSU beaver football defense.

    • Nicebeaver Nicebeaver
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      Riley: “Timmy!….nice to finally meet you in person. You Wisconsin boys really took it to us the last couple of years. Hip hip indeed….that’s was just really really neat stuff you had going on there with my old friend Paul.
      You know, it sortof brings me to something I’ve been meaning to talk to you about. From the top down here within the organization, we thought it would be good for me to have a “welcome to the club” conversation with you, so we’re all…you know…kindof on the same page….
      Can I offer you a stick of gum, Tim? Juicy fruit….it’s my new favorite.
      Anyway….hehe….let me cut to the chase….
      All of those deals you’ve been working on at your previous jobs like fundamentals and conditioning…..they don’t work here in Corvallis. We prefer to go with the “you can’t teach a dog to do tricks” philosophy here. So sit back and relax. You’ve made it to the club. You’re set for life now. The people of Corvallis will love you forever now, just because you actually showed up to work.
      Nice talk Tim. I’ll be seeing you around, or not… 😉

  • Sparkyd73
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    I’m very late to this thread and haven’t been able to read all of the discussion but I do want to weigh in on this. Not everyone has the same way at looking at sports. I take Angry’s well thought out discussion as being partially right. From his view of the world all of the people that don’t get angry at mediocrity are pathetic and cause some of the problems that are in beaver athletics. The problem with the viewpoint is that many people don’t care about sports the same way that many of us do. They are happy to don the Orange and black for an afternoon of tailgating. It is a social experience more than a sporting travesty.

    In some ways I envy them rather than get angry at them. They are happy to blindly follow the team and when they do stick their nose into a discussion they are happy to do it with blind adoration. Especially adoring the last time they were able to give their duck friends a hard time while having a straight face. Very few of them really took notice of the Riley failings.

    Either way, it is not the fans making the decisions in the athletic department.

    • angry angry
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      That’s fair.

    • Doozeldorf Doozeldorf
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      I think this is pretty accurate. It would be interesting to know if OSU has a larger percentage of those fans than other schools. It’s possible that a lack of winning causes the scale to tip in favor of the more casual fan because people don’t want to get too emotionally involved in a losing team, but they still want to support their alma mater.

      • angry angry
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        Yes, I hinted at that above how it’s easier to check out. Sounds like YoungOrSt has checked out and goes for the social aspect, etc.

      • Sparkyd73
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        I’ve had the opportunity to live in a number of places and from what I’ve seen it is similar all over. I will qualify that I’ve never lived in SEC territory. In general the knowledge and engagement of the average fan is on a Saturday with an occasional read of an article.

  • Nicebeaver Nicebeaver
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    Our AD has released their strategic plan.
    Might as well say “Be really good at stuff”

    https://twitter.com/BeaverAD/status/963495524081967104

  • rsteve503 rsteve503
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    Kind of amazing how some are so fixed on an ultimate goal rather than interim goals that they moan that anything short of the ultimate goal is failure (the opposite of success). This is absolutely not true. when you have gone 1-11 and your coach left mid season, your goal first and foremost is to improve. If you do, you have found short term success. Then the goal is to continue that. You might then be successful to get to a bowl game. Then, hopefully (if you are not Riley) you aim to compete for the top. If you do, that is success.

    For teams competitive for the conf title, there are some odds against actually getting that. If you dont, is that failure? Not to me. You came close. If you can do that consistently the odds change and you probably will make it.

    To such as Alabama, not getting the NC may be a season that failed. I find that unreasonable. If we can compete most years for the conf title, we are successful. Some here might call that being happy with being mediocre. I think that attitude is mediocre.

    • Jack Jack
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      You’re now the third person to use the straw man argument of the conflation of mediocrity and failure.

      Why?

      • Jack Jack
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        I shouldn’t say that, because there are likely more people in the body of this thread being equally lazy, and I start to just glaze over and hear the Peanuts adults murmuring in my mind.

      • angry angry
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        I don’t understand why they keep doing it.
        Must be the hamster wheel spinning in real time.

  • rsteve503 rsteve503
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    I think the problem is yours, Angry and Jack. You throw in the notion of a mindset of mediocrity when the situation doesnt allow that to be assessed. We went 1-11. This isnt mediocrity. it is a totally failed season. Until we get back to successful seasons, which right now would be a bowl game, there is no way to see if your notion of a mindset of mediocrity is present. So wait a couple years and then, if you think you see it, moan on about mediocrity.

    • Jack Jack
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      I’ll take failure before I take mediocrity. That’s the point. If you’re not willing to risk failure, you will NEVER be successful.

      You can be happy or satisfied. But stop conflating mediocrity with success and/or failure.

      It’s just not either.

      • Jack Jack
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        I sum it up.

        Mediocrity is purgatory. Accepting a purgatory of a life is checking out. Checking out isn’t an option for some of us. It is not a satisfactory stasis. It eventually leads to failure, which is what attempting to remain there was trying to avoid in the first place.

        It leads to failure because not being ever-vigilant and resting on unworthy laurels leads to an organization that ignores or misreads the details. It can be subtle at first. It can be blown open by a catastrophic event. But it’s there, nonetheless. And it will kill your organization from the inside, out… until it’s untenable.

        Oregon State University has a large swath of fans who simply accept mediocrity as success. It’s not success. It has never been success. It never will be success. You can derive whatever variant of joy or satisfaction from it you might want. But that subjective feeling does not change any objective result.

        And when you become entrenched in that stasis, you start to develop weird tics… like a bunker mentality, excuse-making, a loss of very simple ethical standards, a loss of objective reasoning and just general confusion.

        It’s funny, because some of the people buried in this mediocrity-is-safe mindset can see it clearly in other fanbases. Or they can clearly see other faulty traits which hinder other teams’ success. They even play with these fans, knowing that poking fun at a single outcome doesn’t mean a damn thing in the overall quality of a season. It only affects the irrational.

        I had a decent conversation with someone abut this once regarding OSU. We came to the conclusion that a hoops team that went o-fer during the season then won their conference tourney and went on to win the Big Dance would have had an unsuccessful season. The outcome would have great, a national championship.

        But the NCAA would create a bunch of rules that would prevent something like that ever happening again. That failure of a season combined with the success of a national championship would create mediocrity. And people who objectively celebrate success develop an antipathy toward mediocrity. Nobody should be able to slough off for a season then just turn it on when there’s a real award available. That laziness affected seasonal outcomes for other teams. It affected your conference’s RPI, which leaves worthy teams in your conference out of the tourney… not to mention you knocked another worthy team out with your surprise run… while the NCAA put you in a 15 seed play-in spot, because you don’t really deserve this reward.

        Far be it from me to claim the NCAA pays attention to detail. But you can see what mediocrity does to an organization. And mediocrity in one detail is indicative of mediocrity on the details in general.

        • Jack Jack
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          I feel like I’m trying to explain the concept of zero to people who have never thought about it before.

        • ObjCritic
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          Well said. Glad I checked back on this thread.

          I wish OSU AD had enough intelligence and sense-of-responsibility to invite a few thoughtful people from this site to participate in reviews of AD practices.

        • rsteve503 rsteve503
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          Look, we are in a situation where mediocrity has been ongoing, then came what looks like coaching failure. Now its a new ball game and you have no right, imo, to do anything but sit back and see if the atmosphere has changed. After a season or hopefully two, if things look the same as before, then moan on about mediocrity.

          • Jack Jack
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            I have a right to withhold my being a fan of an organization which clearly does not respect itself.

            There can be nothing good occurring while Michael Joseph Riley draws a salary from Oregon State University. He’s a merc, and mercs get paid like mercs. They also enjoy only the respect a merc deserves.

            If our AD can’t have the simplest of standards, then I will speak to their abject failures often and at will.

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