21.Aug.2012 Final Scrimmage Concerns

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Riley quoted as saying there were a lot of procedural penalties…said the team needs to work on details (does this sound familiar?)

Banker says CBs were lining up offside, guys were "missing tackles", defenders "panicking" and committing holding or interference penalties.

Trevor Romaine goes 2-4 on FGs.

Sounds like problems with basic, fundamental football will haunt this team yet again. These types of mistakes play out as one step forward/two steps back during games. I don't know about you guys, but I might pull my hair out watching another season of missed tackles, false starts, and shanked kicks. Banker did not sound happy at all with the D.

No punting stats. When a reporter asks Riley about the punters, he dodges the question and says he was watching the return game and the blockers so he didn't pay attention to the punters. That sums it up; he never pays attention to punters, which is why we don't have one. I thought it was a clever way to dodge the question, though…if he was watching the return game he obviously saw the punts. He just didn't like them, and being Mr. Nice Guy, he didn't want to say that.

Everyone will focus on Woods scoring and Gilmore having a nice day. That's fine. But what I want to see is solid fundamentals, and not only didn't it happen, but we got the exact opposite.

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  • beavers4life says:
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    Lack of focus maybe?

  • Redhook42 says:
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    Not worried yet, it is a scrimmage. Maybe the offense has improved. The defense maybe suspect, but a good offense can hid that to a certain extent. As for the punting don’t know what to make of that, the coach sould pay attention to all aspects of the team.

  • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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    I remember attending a few Dennis Erickson practices back in the day and he would get in a guys face and chew them out when they made fundamental mistakes. Riley seems to be more of the “go get um next time tiger!” mold. hearing that the defense was panicking and holding on pass plays worries me more than the false starts. those penalties give up major yardage amd are harder to recover from than a false start. i really hope we dont make a bowl this year so we can be 1 year closer to the end of this regime.

    • angry angry says:
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      i really hope we dont make a bowl this year so we can be 1 year closer to the end of this regime.

      I hate thinking like this, but yeah (thanks Bob D).

      If it’s between 5-7 and no bowl or 6-6 and a horrible bowl, I’d rather sacrifice the bowl game and extra practice time to have Riley not extended another year.

      If it’s a respectable bowl game (Alamo or higher) I’d rather they go to that game.

      • FedUpBeav says:
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        There lies the major pitfall of that awful deal. We reward 6-6 like it is great, and the fans themselves say I’d rather not. .500 ball doesn’t get us anywhere, yet our arrangement tries to perpetuate it and keep us stuck at mediocrity. The setup even allows worse years so long as you can snap back occassionally to 6-6. It’s a contract that has played a negative impact on actual results too because most OSU fans don’t want Oregon State to be a Joe Pa corny school to begin with, let alone with little way out like we are stuck in some Kafkaesque or Jon Paul Sartre “No Exit” bad dream.

        • Krogercomplete says:
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          This assumes Riley does not actually try to win each game he plays.

      • helmsley says:
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        Converseley, if the team does fairly well – I’m not going to project numbers – perhaps Riley will decide he has saved face and can retire with some honor. We could then only hope that Banker and Langsdorf would be passed over. I’m not sure it bears repeating but BDC is the roadblock to anything.

    • bone says:
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      Sounding a little bit like fightigbeaver with that last sentence, ncaa_violation. At least the team losing isn’t for your own personal gain.

      • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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        I’m just sick of buying season tickets and wasting an entire Saturday driving down to Corvallis when the outcome turns out like Sac. State, BYU, UCLA did last year. At least vs Stanford they came out with a little fire in the first half, but they couldn’t maintain that for an entire game. Utah and CAL on the road last season were equally bad. My time and money are valuable to me, and I don’t like feeling like not getting anything in return for them.

        • bone says:
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          I get that. But I dont see how hoping continues to lose will be better for you or the program.

          • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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            A changing of the guard will he good for the program and for me. and losing is what it will take to make that happen sooner rather than later

          • Krogercomplete says:
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            Well, it might be better.

          • bone says:
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            Change isn’t always a good thing. I am a Red Sox fan and Terry Francona resigned as manager he essentially said that the team needed new leadership and fresh perspective….and that hasn’t worked. In 2008, big CHANGE was expected for the entire country, but the wrong time of change. Change might bring some new excitement and hype, but usually doesn’t last.

            My suggestion with dealing with something you cannot control (Like college athletic) follow the advice of Alphaville, “Hope for the best but expect the worst”.

          • issaquahbeav says:
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            Yeah, but can you really do worse than last season at 3-9? The smart ass answer is “Yes” you could be 1-11 or 2-10, which is the same thing – a losing season. The bottom line is we’re already building on two losing seasons and we could be headed for a third if the injury bug bites us. A new coach really has only one way but up and sometimes it takes a fresh approach to return to the winner’s circle.

            “Hope for the best but expect the worst.” This statement separates the casual fan from the die hard fan. I, like many on this board, expect more from our coaches. OSU football is my passion/hobby and I don’t like accepting mediocrity.

            In the banking world, we like to say that “hope is not a turnaround plan” when companies are struggling financially. There needs to be a documented, well-thought out plan to right the ship, and I’m struggling to see that from our coaching staff.

          • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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            Love your last paragraph. It’s absolutely spot-on. Hoping in business is the first step to failing.
            Or as the great Burgess Meredith said in Grumpy Old Men, “You can hope in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.”

          • steveEbeaver says:
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            From a NASCAR commercial last weekend, “If winning was easy, losers would do it!”

        • wannabeav says:
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          Those were indeed 5 atrocious efforts last year. Concur on the Stanford game too. If the refs don’t blow that call on Poyer’s hit that game might have been contestable to the end. there were two games like those five the year before: WSU and UCLA. Anyway, as someone pointed out in a thread a few weeks ago, the single greatest demonstration of improvement for the Beavs would be to be regularly competitive, whether or not, in fact, they prevail.

    • Smizni says:
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      Cause we all know that if there was one thin Dennis Erickson was good at it was stopping stupid, boneheaded, and unnecessary penalties.

      Wait, that is what his teams were famous for.

      • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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        Ericksons team penalties consisted of late hits, excessive celebration, hitting the kicker. all resulting from aggressive play. false starts and holding are much worse in my opinion because they mean the team isnt ready to play.

    • whatever says:
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      “i really hope we dont make a bowl this year so we can be 1 year closer to the end of this regime.”

      You call yourself a fan?

      • Joe_Avezzano says:
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        I agree. I can’t root against the Beavers under any circumstances. No can do.

        Those who can, well…they’re either lying about that or are not real fans. One or the other.

      • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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        I can’t be a fan of the team and still want a change in coaching regime? Have you never disliked a specific player or coach on one of your teams before? I’m also a huge Blazer fan, but I didn’t like the direction they were going with Bonzi Wells/Rasheed Wallace/Zach Randolph and Ruben Patterson (among others). Should I not be considered a Blazer fan because I didn’t want to see the team succeed with those guys?

        I’ve grown to dislike Riley as a coach for different reasons, but in the end, the desire to see the coaching staff change shouldn’t make me less of a fan. I want the change to happen in and effort to see improvement in the team overall.

        Also, I don’t just want change for change’s sake. More would have to go into that decision than simply firing a guy and hiring the next tool (Mike Stoops?? please….) Changing the coaching staff would represent an opportunity for improvement, so I would hope the people put in charge of making that type of decision wouldn’t settle for a lateral move. It’s pointless to worry about it now though, because that decision won’t be coming for nearly another decade unless Riley decides on his own it’s time to step down.

        • krogercomplete says:
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          It is a cold utilitarian calculation that many cannot stomach. When the rubber hits the road, though, and you are sitting there watching the game, are you really going to be hoping they lose? I think that is what the posts are driving at.

          • Jack says:
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            Agreed. If the motivation is for long term health, then you make sacrifices now. If the motivation is simply out of spite, then the responders are correct.

            They’re talking two different conditions.

            NCAA could respond with, “Well, I believe the future will simply be a repeat of the present unless our AD makes a change for the better. Our AD has signaled (via a legal contract) that change of any kind will not occur until a designated date with terms to extend that date beyond the current term. The date itself is silly enough. The terms for further extension require a condition of losing to keep them from being enacted. I want my team to be more than a .500 team into perpetuity, and I don’t see that happening much under current circumstances. Therefore, hoping for losses on the micro level in my case is hoping for wins on the macro level. And I would posit that the opposite is true.This means those who think they’re rooting for the Beavs in the here and now are actually rooting for them to lose in the long run. That is a way and a how.”

            Of course… I personally want them to go undefeated and win the NC every year in every sport. But I provide what I think NCAA is saying as just one valid alternate.

          • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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            Let’s put it this way, last season, the Blazers were not going to make the playoffs. In the NBA, teams with bad records are rewarded with high draft picks. (the lottery levels the playing field a little, but the worse your record, the better chance of good things happening in the draft) If the Blazers finished with a record just shy of the playoffs, their draft pick would have been in the mid teens. I was cheering for them to play well in games, but ultimately lose in the final minutes in order to increase their chances at a high draft pick. It was not a difficult decision for me and I happily was entertained with a loss, knowing it was better for the future of the team.

            With Oregon State, I’d rather lose now in hopes of bringing about swifter changes in the coaching staff, rather than drag it out and just stay barely relevant to eternity. Sure, I want the guys to be competitive and play hard, but given the choice of finishing 3-9 again vs finishing 5-7 or 6-6, I’m going to have to choose 3-9.

          • bone says:
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            But before the Blazers started their season were you wanting them to lose so that they could a higher draft pick?

            I’m almost certain everyone want to do better than 6-6.

          • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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            I am this season 🙂

            They’re not going anywhere with their current team, and if their first round draft pick is 13 or later (I believe), they lose that draft pick to New Orleans. So yes, I hope the Blazers end this coming season with a crappy record, otherwise rebuilding will be delayed another season.

          • bone says:
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            Fair enough. Well all I can say to you is that I hope you have a disappointing season this year, both the Blazers and Beavers. 🙂

          • wannabeav says:
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            I think I understand ncaa’s logic model at the macro level, but it breaks down week by week on the micro level. For example, let’s say after 11 games the Beavs are 5-6. We all know who that twelfth game is against. You’re gonna root against the Beavs winning the CW so that Riley finishes with a losing record? don’t believe it.

          • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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            I’ll always root for the Beavs vs the Ducks. That should go without saying. I agree with the breakdown having an affect on my stance. If the Beavs come out of the gate on fire, and start the season 4-0, of course I’ll want to see them continue to win and have a great record. Nothing about the past decade has led me to believe 4-0 is going to happen though. Not under Riley’s watch.

          • krogercomplete says:
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            Not that I share your sentiment, but I understand the logic. Still, I’d have to not watch the entire season, because I would not be able to sit there watching the game hoping for them to lose, which is what your position requires.

  • ChrisOSAlum ChrisOSAlum says:
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    Sounds like the USC scrimmage from a couple of days ago…

  • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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    “defenders “panicking” and committing holding or interference penalties.”

    Anybody else think this is a product of actually turning their head on defense for the first time at Oregon State and panicking because they’re not used to seeing the play coming their way? Or maybe they were told to look the other way in the past because they scared easily?

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    Yeah 5-7 and 6-6 are worse case scenario’s, program shows enough improvement to keep Riley around and an average program, and not bad enough to fire over. 7-5 and 8-4 the program suceeds and that is what I want. However, I feel we will get former.

    Meanwhile, we keep falling further and further behind. In reality the program needs investment more now than ever, however nobody wants to give to a dying program. See where we are compared to the leaders…
    ?@BryanDFischer USC/Oregon separating from Pac12. RT @EyeOnCFB: Images from USC’s $70 million John McKay Center, which opened on Tue http://cbsprt.co/PvidBa

  • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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    Were any names named on the defense? If it were the 2’s, I’ll chalk it up to choking due to the anxiety about if being the real last chance to earn a starting spot. Fundamentals tend to go when the anxiety gets too high.

    • Numbers says:
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      I couldn’t disagree more. Fundamentals are what one returns to when all else is falling apart. This coaching staff just hasnt been connecting on the most basic of levels.

      • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav says:
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        When all else is falling apart one returns to his TRAINING. If well trained in fundamentals, then behavior will be sound in those fundamentals.

        However, if training has emphasized a complex decision making “scheme” then behavior will only be successful if the complex scheme has been very very well ingrained (likely taking lots more than a year of Spring/Fall camp).

        Good fundamentals have been taught to most of the players selected for the team, and hopefully reinforced by the Beavs coaching staff. But, a complex scheme which may prepare one for the NFL will not be nearly as automatic as good fundamentals until a player has more than a year or two in the system.

        As said before, a well executed simple system will usually beat a poorly executed complex system. I fear this is why we are often told it takes so long for players to learn Riley’s system and is a primary reason for failure when “things are falling apart”.

      • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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        Numbers, when the fundamentals aren’t being followed, that can be a result of having too much anxiety and “over thinking”. Too much monkey brain about details and running through all the possibilities and how to respond in each of those situations, and then add on thoughts of what will happen if I screw up. All this can lead to straying from the fundamentals because fundamentals happen when you think less. A cornerback lining up offsides? You think he wasn’t coached how to do that in the 6th grade? You lose track of that when your brain is running wild.

        • Numbers says:
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          I still disagree. My example would be John Wooden in basketball. The first day the guy would teach players how to put on their socks. Riley’s system offensively is complex and takes time. But in this case I’m complaining about Banker and his defense. There are fundamental things that must be addressed. Lining up, being onside, wrapping up and not just arm tackling, being in position. A good defensive scheme shouldn’t require more than two or three decisions for a particular player. You read the play and react, relying on fundamentals and training. If this is a poor scheme In which our players are unable to fulfill their roles, then that’s on banker, Riley and co for scheming.

      • oneoldbeav says:
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        Actually, when all else is falling apart one returns to TRAINING. If well trained in fundamentals then fundamentals will be “automatic” and applied to the situation. Many recruits have at least an elementary grasp of these fundamentals when they join the team and could be trained to a very high level if fundamentals were the primary emphasis of the staff.

        We are often told that it takes years for players to learn Riley’s complex system and, while it may prepare one for the NFL, that system requires much training to become “automatic” in the face of all else falling apart. It is less likely that recruits have much of a handle on this system when they join the team.

        At this level panic can be the result of trying to execute a complex system for which there has not been enough training.

        If the staff hasn’t been connecting on the most basic of levels it may be because they’ve jumped over the basics to try to teach the complex scheme. That said, I think the problem was much worse in the recent past than this time around.

        EDIT: looks like bendbeaver said pretty much the same but much more succinctly.

  • Timber2002 says:
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    Tyrequek Zimmerman said today on the Joe Beaver show that the single reason he came from Oklahoma City to play in Corvallis was to play for Mike Riley.

    On Beaver Insider on CSNNW tonight Tim Euhus predicted the Beavs will be 9-3 this year.

    This team is questionable at defensive tackle. But there isn’t any other area where the Beavs are weak. Deep? maybe not, but the starters are solid all around. Even o-line. Not only are there no more walk-on olinemen starting but all 5 had offers from other pac-12 schools. Two had 6.0 ratings from rivals, better than any o-lineman on the quack roster. QB is good and WR is outstanding. TE has even been a nice surprise. DEs could be the best in the conference. DJ Welch is a huge upgrade at LB. Safeties will be at minimum decent, and CBs are both potential all conference. Add to that a chip on the shoulder from last year. This team is gonna be tough this year.

    Hell even at DT, Banker said yesterday that Joe Lopez is blowing them away in camp and reminds him of Curtis Coker.

    As far as Banker’s comments on D from the scrimmage, remember that Poyer and Reynolds sat out today.

    • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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      “…But there isn’t any other area where the Beavs are weak. Deep?…”

      Imo they’re obviously weak, depth wise, at DT, DB OL and LB.

      We’ll know a lot more about how weak they are talent wise in the next month or so.

      “…The defense registered four quarterback sacks but the offense scored points as well leaving the impression that both units will soon be ready for a real opponent…”

      http://www.osubeavers.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/082112aab.html

      I’m not pleased about the 4 sacks. What’s it going to be like when they’re up against some real defensive lines? Tends to temper one’s enthusiasm and cause them to resist getting their hopes up too much.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    The news is that this isn’t news. This is a pattern. I don’t think its wise to end the fall camp without a focused, crisp, competitive scrimmage. I think Riley should have another, shorter scrimmage (20-30 plays) and say “Show me how to play it right.” Players need to know there are expectations from the coaching staff to get things right.

  • Timber2002 says:
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    Different tone from Banker in his interview on espn.com.

    “This team resembles more closely some of the athletes we’ve had in the past,” Banker said.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/43080/banker-wants-his-tough-guys-back

    • Numbers says:
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      I keep hearing this. So and so is performing like a past great. I don’t get it. It seems like the coaching staff is looking backwards not forwards.

      • Krogercomplete says:
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        Easier than comparing them to future players who do not yet exist.

  • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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    Hey, what happened to our August 11th love-fest?

    • Krogercomplete says:
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      Some defensive holding penalties during a scrimmage . . .

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    According to Hunt, the punting was ok. One was a 56 yarder. Riley saying he cant watch the return team play and still notice if the punting is good or bad, is …. well, ridiculous. Like a bank teller saying they cant lay out money and count at the same time..

    One thing I think is different from last year…..werent there interceptions by last years bad defense? And O live says that despite the offense putting themselves in a hole, with penalties or whatever ( 3rd and long situations), they converted a lot of them.

    It really sounds like the offense is better situated this year.

    I do understand the problem with what we wish for. If this year starts looking like last year, and we cant play a gutty, competitive game each outing, then I want another 3-9 year and hopefully bye bye, Riley. Yes, change is problematical, but ANY change is reason for renewed hope.

    If Riley cant create a winning program, playing competitive ball even in losses, then screw him.

    I think we will know, end of next week.

  • beavers4life says:
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    I would rather see Langsdorf and Banker gone before Riley personally or at least Langsdorf stripped of his offensive play calling duties. I think a new defensive coordinator would bring in a renewed defensive spirit. It’s Bankers schemes that are causing the defense trouble because he doesn’t change his defense to his personnel nor to his opponents each week. We shall see how the defensive players that Banker coaches differs from the LB, DB’s, and Safety’s that other coaches deal with.

    10 days, 10 hours, 54 minutes until kickoff!! GO BEAVS!!!

    • angry angry says:
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      Trent Bray for DC!

      • beavers4life says:
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        I will make an Orange shirt with Black lettering and wear that to every home game this season!

      • beavers4life says:
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        or have the front be, “out with the old” (with a picture of banker) and on the back “In with the new!” (with a picture of Trent Bray)

        I already have the “stay til the very last play 0:00” shirt in black for the 2 black out games.

    • Fightingbeaver says:
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      If we have a 3-9 or 4-8 season and you want to keep Mike Riley on as coach then you just like to keep a losing football program. The program will not turn around unless we get rid of the guy responsible for its downfall, Mike Riley and his partner in crime BDC.

      The football program needs new, younger energy. A leader with enthusiasm and goals to get the Beavers to no less than a BCS Bowl game. I for one am tired of the Beavers losing, no pro-active connection with fan base and more losing Civil War games. We can not attain this without a new head coach and new Athletic Director working as a team. We also need leadership who enthusiastically wants to complete phase 3 of Reser Stadium as soon as possible.

      If Beaver Nation set their standards higher than mediocre football, the sky’s the limit.

      • Timber2002 says:
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        What if… (maybe difficult to imagine) …but what if we DON’T have a 3-9 or 4-8 season?

        What if we have a 7, 8, or 9 win season?

        What do we do then?

        Fire him then too? Fire him for the sake of firing him? Bring in somebody with new younger energy? Somebody with Enthusiasm!! Somebody with no pro-active connection to the fan base? I THINK YOU’RE RIGHT. AND I GOT YOUR MAN RIGHT HERE. MIKE STOOPS BABY! OH YEAH! THE SKY’S THE LIMIT NOW!!!

        • Jack says:
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          I don’t even bother thinking about it. With Riley’s contract, it’s a waste of time whining about it. And it’s the height of ignorance for anyone who makes these “hot seat” lists to put Riley on the list at all. He’s here through 2019 whether we go 3-9 for eight years or not.

          That being said, he will have winning seasons in those eight. I would mark eight wins a success out of 13 played. 7-6 in a season sucks if we’re going to keep playing 1-AA schools to start the season. I would wager that half of those eight seasons will result in 8+ wins, which adds four years to his contract. One more will be 6-7 wins and add another year. And it will continue with the same results in the same cycles as long as the contract extends. There will be some good seasons, some bad and some in the middle.

          Pollyannas think of Riley’s career graph as parabolic.
          Hopeful fans who accept mediocrity hope it’s more a representation of sine².
          Realists see a damped oscillation for another 20 years.
          Negawhiners scream that it’s exponential decay, and they blame it on the dog.

          • wannabeav says:
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            I agree with Jack that too much emphasis on this site is given to the duration of Riley’s tenure, at this time. I disagree, however, that he can survive to 2019 without a winning season. In my opinion he couldn’t last past 2014 without at least one BIG season.

          • Jack says:
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            I don’t know about that. OSU has a history of honoring contracts through thick and thin barring systemic problems in personnel management. Maybe losing in the era of big time TV revenues will trigger a change in that habit. But I don’t see anyone in our booster base who makes these noises. And I don’t hear any unified voice saying the same. In fact, I see more of a schism with those who would make these noises being the biggest apologists.

            Riley hasn’t had a BIG season yet. He’s come close a couple times, but his teams have never made it through their glass ceiling. And instead of setting the expectation of doing so when his contract was extended, we’ve heard nothing but excuses and hope for a return to “big for OSU” (not BIG).

            We’ll get back to “big for OSU” in the next couple years. We’ll also make it back to 3-9 or similar after that. Making it to BIG may also happen sometime, but that won’t be a function of the excellence of our head coach and his staff. If one were to claim that, then it would have to be a continued function or one presented in the past.

            One could argue the same is true of Mike Leach at TTech. Although, I would say he did make it to BIG one year. But that year was BIG because of a little luck on the sideline to end one game. Because BIG was not attained previously, he needed to show continued success on that level before he stepped out of his own shadow. He didn’t get the chance because of five hooker dood and his public lies. Will he now? He gets a blank slate and many years to prove it.

          • krogercomplete says:
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            I think the win/loss record for each season is a function of multiple factors, one of which is the coaching staff. I would think Riley should get just as much credit for a “BIG” season as he is currently getting blame for the 3-9 season.

          • Jack says:
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            Oh he’ll get credit. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying it would happen with any coach with like recruiting and coaching capabilities. It’s more a function of luck than it is coaching though.

            What if (in 2009) Catchings doesn’t drop the ball… or Pankey was good enough to close off on that world class sprinter, Gerhart?

            That’s why I brought up Leach. His BIG year was a function of the UT CB playing the ball on the final play of the game and the S behind him just thinking the play would be incomplete or pushed out of bounds to end the game. Credit him for having players who could do that and having them in a position to do so. But luck beats skill on that play.

            Speaking of Leach… just heard he’s trying to poach Jermel Walker.

          • Jack says:
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            Sorry… *2008

        • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
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          “…What do we do then?…”

          Fire Bobby D. Gotta start somewhere and that’s a position which is in need of change.

      • wannabeav says:
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        regrettably, Riley is quoted in the Salem paper about his team finding its “identity.” I was holding my breath hoping he wasn’t going to trot out that old trope again, but I was disappointed. What we want, Mike, is for YOU to establish the team’s identity. “It’s Division 1 Football!” Sometimes I think Riley is the antipode to Vince Lombardi.

  • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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    What are you guys bitching about? False starts, offsides, shanked punts, and missed FG’s.
    We are in midseason form! How many teams can say that with a week left in fall camp.

    • Jack says:
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      Heh heh…

      There’s some truth to this. We’re only a couple weeks away from making one of Riley’s patented late season runs… to start the season.

      False starts/offsides: Gonna happen… needs to not happen, but they do.
      Defensive holding/panicking: running the 2’s and 3’s against Mannion and Vaz should cause panick in our group of washed-out RB’s. The QB/WR/TE group spent all off-season working and playing together, and they should be able to beat the defense.
      Missed tackles: Grrrrr…. That better be the same CB group just feeling empathy for the offense… since they used to be the offense too.
      Punting: I’ll go with the sin of omission on this report. Instead of the reporters asking about the punting game (which they could see for themselves) they should have reported that every punt actually had coverage/return opportunities. What a concept!

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Well Cliff offers his perspective on my question about the results of Riley’s comprehensive off-season review and subsequent, responsive program changes in approach to the regular season:

    1. Change practice times;
    2. Pipe music into practice;
    3. Limit O and D interaction;
    4. Focus on the two deep; and
    5. Water balloon fight.

    Let’s see if that translates into a 3-1 start in the first month and a decent bowl game.

    I suspect more meaningful changes in approach include: Riley calling plays (if true?), and the addition of Bray at LB coach as discussed on another thread.

    http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/opinion/blogs/cliff-kirkpatrick/impressed-with-football-changes/article_af1f9864-e99e-11e1-ab21-001a4bcf887a.html

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      6. Pillow fight with cheerleaders.

    • wannabeav says:
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      you know, it’s easy to mock some of this stuff, but then sometimes little things can be, like the old cliche, bigger than the sum of its parts. like, for example, (a blast from OSU’s past, and infamously so)–facial hair.

    • angry angry says:
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      That water balloon fight is going to be the difference maker, you just watch…

    • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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      Cliff? Cliff who? I remember a guy, I think his name was Cliff, who had a free blog once, but then the people he worked for started to charge for his blog, they wanted more then what it cost me to get the Pac-12 network in HD every month. Crazy!

      • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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        He jumped off the cliff.

      • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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        What ever happened about paying to go to Cliff’s page? I still check it all the time and there isn’t anything about having to pay.

      • Will Overhead says:
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        Jeebus, Bill – if you’re savvy enough to post here, then you probably can figure out the instructions to dump all the cookies that have:
        gazettetimes
        mvourtown.com
        leeenterprises
        Search for those cookies, and delete them when you run up against the limit. They want to charge, you don’t want to pay – what’s the problem?

        Of course, as simple as this is to do, I wonder aloud whether or not it is worth it – all this gets you is less fettered access to Cliff’s blog. Tangentially, why is it that the G-T has a link to his Nov. 26 2011Civil War postgame post on the front page of the G-T website under his smug mug? Oh, wait – it’s the G-T.

        Never mind.

  • Kenny Beaver says:
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    The problem with judging any progress with the rushing game is that the scrimaging is against our defense which was horrible against the rush last year. If the defense is using the #2s then the results are even more deceiving. Sadly, we won’t learn anything about the rush or even the entire offense going against Nichols State (1-10). They couldn’t beat Jesuit!

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      You are correct. The Wisconsin game will be the proof one way or another. Watched the BTN preview
      of the hated Badgers a couple nights ago and they asked about the O-line. Bulemia said he thinks it will be the best since he has been there. This is after losing three guys to the league. Not good news for our D-line. If we are roadkill it will be a long season. Only good news is that they have question marks with getting a pass rush from their d-ends.

      • GoBeavs90 says:
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        Wisconsin also has a question mark at QB. I watched O’Brien last season at Maryland. He was awful. Beavers secondary will have a chance to force some turnovers, IMO.

        • Timber2002 says:
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          Wisconsin also has only one receiver who would make the 2-deep roster at OSU.

          • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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            Not a problem when you are getting 5 or 6 yards per carry. They have another really good TE.
            Hope the QB melts down.

          • GoBeavs90 says:
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            Despite having a great rush attack, at some point the QB has to hurt you through the air, if he can’t then they’ll pay for it. Look at the UW game last year at Reser. The halfbacks for UW averaged about 5.3 yards/carry. However, Nick Montana stunk. Beavers took advantage and won by double digits. So, as great as Wisconsin’s running game is, if O’Brien doesn’t at least play average, they can easily lose to Oregon State.

          • Jack says:
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            Richard Brehaut, Jon Hays and Zach Maynard thank you for trying to mitigate their suckiness.

      • ObjCritic says:
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        Yes, we’ll get to see if this deep D-line of (mostly) 275 pounders has the depth and skill the staff seems to think they do. Was it Joe Lopez at DT that Banker was saying was reminiscent of Curtis Coker?

        UW’s line is just ridiculous. It IS going to take some turnovers from Murphy, Poyer et al (Oh! I just had a premonition of a LB int – It looks like its Welch!) to establish some balance in the game, but then the offense is going to have to turn them into points, not just stave off the drive for three plays and a punt. Sure, that’s a field position improvement, but that’s not enough.

      • Fightingbeaver says:
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        The big difference with the Wisconsin Badgers is their coach wants to take his team to the division championship and win……then go to a BCS bowl game. Mike Riley prays in church every Sunday to have 6 or 7 game wins in a 12 game season. Really high goals.

  • locusimperium says:
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    A thought that been rolling around a while in my mind: we have a good to very good receiving corps, but I tend to think that most other Pac-12 schools have the same.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    Here’s a look at the Ducks uni’s, these I think look the best out of all of them. But really, who cares.
    hahahahahahah RT @darrenrovell FIRST LOOK: Nike’s new Oregon football uniforms http://twitpic.com/amjryo

    • Jack says:
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      Hoo boy!

      Every year you hope it’s just a joke. Every year it’s not.

      I guess I’m just numb to it all now. Uni changes are so passe.

    • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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      This upcoming season, what will Oregon football players have in common with Maxi-pads?

      Both will have wings…..

      It looks like a few feathers weren’t enough and they had to upgrade to a full wing. Maybe next year the entire uniform will have feathers and they’ll be wearing full feathered bird suits. Maybe add a duck bill to the helmet somehow?

    • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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      I see a lot of excitement over Tinker from the byte and a few others. Does anyone else worry about Nike making us beavs some atrocious uni’s that are meant just to stand out like the Ducks?

      Jack, did you read Miller’s Best Case/Worst Case on the beavs this year? Reason I mention, he has Under Armor vying to be our sponsor after beating the Ducks. Figured you’d get a kick out of that.

      • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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        No, do I think every uniform they make will reasonate with me? No. I do like the Giant Killer uniforms from a few yrs ago, they did good on those. I like last years too. They have done a good job so far. I am not going to worry about some swings and misses, I just appreciate the swings.

      • wannabeav says:
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        is it a coincidence, or did our recruiting tail off (no pun intended) after the sports bra look?

        • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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          No its not coincidence, its standard the recruiting has been very consistent with Riley, lower half of the league, regardless of what the uniforms looked like.

    • beavers4life says:
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      Actually, the top isn’t half bad. A little too neon yellow, but it’s better than the silver wings they had last year. This design actually compliments the uniform. Not great, but not bad which equals improvement over last year. it’s definitely easier on the eyes for sure.

      • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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        It amazing to read all the comments from the media on the uniforms, like “jump the shark”, another uniform release loses its luster, after 15 uniforms they all blend together….

    • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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      LOL … what a bla uniform. And the school colors are now yellow and gray? With tire tread marks on the shoulders?

      Who the hell designs this shit?

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    @CliffGT
    TE Colby Prince stopped practice to ice his shoulder.
    @CliffGT
    RB Storm Woods is icing a foot.

    • oneoldbeav says:
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      Cliff reporting “to counter the injury issue, Riley decided that instead of having a full practice tonight (Wed.) they will have a walk-through.”

      In addition to Prince and Woods he notes Colin Kelly “hurt his arm”.

  • Beaver Byte says:
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    The Pac-12 is very likely to have atleast one coaching replacement in 2012 as it does most years. Doubtful it will be as active as last year’s changes but the Pac-12 is a conference on the move that expects all its members to adapt to its bolder image and keep up with the herd. Riley needs to show this year that he can be just as competitive as the league’s new coaches.

    Selfish Herd Theory and OSU’s Riley:
    http://beaverbyte.com

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    OT- Making the trip to Provo for the BYU game this year. My liver will be pleasantly surprised due to the lack of alcohol available on campus.
    Gotta make a trip to Wasatch Brewing in Park City to try their Polygamy Porter whose tag line is “Why have just one?” Epic.

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      Don’t get thrown out of the stadium for drinking coffee!

    • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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      Did anybody go to the BYU game last year at Reser? Some Beaver fans dressed up as Mormon bicycle riding missionaries, complete with shirt/tie and orange and black bike helmet. Was really surprised they put those guys on the jumbo tron.

  • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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    We did get about 30 seconds on the ESPN PAC-12 preview show. We are beyond an afterthought.

  • ncaa_viOlation ncaa_viOlation says:
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    Haven’t heard much discussion on here about the upcoming rule changes we’ll see this season. I just finished watching Talkin’ Beavs and the had a segment about it. Notable changes include the helmet rule (any player who loses their helmet must stop playing during the current play and come out for 1 snap, unless it’s the result of a facemask penalty. Also, that player cannot be tackled by an opponent or tackle another opponent if the helmet comes off or they’ll receive a 15 yard penalty)
    and the kickoff rule (kickoffs from the 35 yard line, kicking team must lineup within 5 yards of where the ball is placed, touchbacks result in play starting on the 25 instead of 20)

    Both rules are aimed at increasing player safety, which I’m all for. Just wondering how you all think these changes will affect the game? What if you’re the only player in the vicinity to make a tackle on the ball carrier and your helmet has fallen off? You’d have to make the tackle anyway and take the 15 yard penalty. This doesn’t really help keep the player safe. If they’re going to make the player losing the helmet stop, shouldn’t everybody have to stop?

    • angry angry says:
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      Touchbacks are now at the 25 yard line??
      I did not hear about this.

      I think that’s brutal for bad to average defensive teams (like the Beavs)…

    • beavers4life says:
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      Actually, from what I’ve read, the kickoff’s touchback will remain at the 20, but punts will be at the 25. That’s what I got from it anyway.

      • beavers4life says:
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        nevermind…it’s the otherway around. my mistake. Also, if they want to encourage more touchbacks, then why not have the rule that if the kicker kicks the ball through the uprights on a kickoff, then the kicking team gets 3 points and the other team still gets the ball at the 25. This is a good compromise because then teams won’t care about giving up 5 yards on a touchback so long as they get points out of it. Right?!

  • beaverbeliver says:
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    I am worried, this smells like a 3-9 or 4-8 kind of season. I just dont see where the improvement from last year is. Will playing music or throwing water balloons somehow make us better? Until proven otherwise, we have no running game. I hope I am wrong.

    • Numbers says:
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      I do believe we see an improved offensive line, which will substaintially improve the offensive capability. I like the left side of the line, I’m still not fully faithful in G. and C. Kelly. I’m concerned about the defense. If they get the right guys on the field, playing in the right spots, the D can be quite adequate.

      • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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        Yeah, there is at least sign of improvement. We will see, shortly.

  • beaverbeliver says:
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    Saw this on a fire Mike Riley website. Is this how we handle our alumni?

    Hen house operation
    For the past 16 years I always touch base with my good friend’s father before the season starts. He played 4 years for Dee Andros and was on the 1967 Giant Killers team. I enjoy getting his perspective on the team and where he thinks the season is heading. This year was a different conversation. It went something like this:
    (picking up after the pleasantries)
    Me: Hey Bill, how we looking this season?
    Bill: Before we even go into this I have to tell you a story…
    Me: Sounds good
    Bill: I called the ticket office because my 4 season tickets didn’t arrive in the mail. My buddy down the road got his, so I called.
    Me: Interesting…
    Bill: The gal on the phone said I never renewed my season tickets. I, of course said, “yes I did and have for 35 years” She then proceeded to tell me my tickets had been reallocated to another season ticket holder as an upgrade. I said, “What are you talking about? How does something like this happen?” She repeated
    that I didn’t renew my tickets and I do not have season tickets, but would I be interested in buying a mini package of games. I immediately asked to speak to a manager. 10 minutes later, Scott gets on to tell me that after researching my account there is nothing he could do.
    Me: YOU’RE FUCKING KIDDING ME
    Bill: Just wait. I usually don’t like doing this, but I explained that I am a Varsity O member and was on the Giant Killers. He interrupted me and said, “You were on the team that beat #1USC with Mark Sanchez on ESPN? I was at that game.”
    Me: (Interrupting) YOU’RE FUCKING KIDDING ME
    Bill: (laughs) I replied calmly, Scott, I played for Dee Andros when we beat OJ Simpson. Scott then says “Oh, that must have been before I was born.” So I then asked to speak to his supervisor, which he said was not around. I told Scott that I expect my tickets to be reissued immediately to me. He then says, “I can’t they have already been mailed out to the new owners.” I hung up
    Me: Bill, I don’t know what to say.
    Bill: Well about an hour later Scott called back and let me know that he can issue me new seats in a new section but I have lost my grandfather status. I said to him “Scott, the boys down there aren’t winning many games. Is this really how you want handle my situation?” And he actually said to me, “Well this year will be different and you don’t want to miss any home games.” I then said, you tell Bob DeCarolis I called and I will be expecting a phone call shortly, only then will I decide if I am going to continue supporting OSU.
    Me: Did he call?
    Bill: Nope. I am done with OSU.

    The call pretty much ended there. If this is happening to a Varsity O member, member of the 1967 Giant Killers, an alumni, and a 35 year season ticket holder, what the hell is going on in Corvallis?

    • oneoldbeav says:
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      This was posted here and discussed a few weeks back.

      • angry angry says:
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        Was it? I missed that.

        Something strange is brewing in Corvallis…I think being isolated and the only game in town has gone to their head…

      • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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        Yes, we did discuss this.
        There was some question as to whether the story was even true. If it was true, then “Bill” pretty much forgot to pay for his tickets, otherwise he could easily prove that he did so with a canceled check or credit card charge.

      • beaverbeliver says:
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        Sorry, I missed that.

      • Krogercomplete says:
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        Would not surprise me of true, but I interpreted it as some young ticket office types with no record of this order in their system listening to an old man drone on about how he wants to talk with the athletic director. Wouldn’t be the first time something like this happened.

  • beavers4life says:
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    Has anyone looked at this option for Notre Dame?! This is going to make true ND fans upset…I’m upset by these uniforms! lol

    http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/16/notre-dame-unveils-new-uniforms-for-soldier-field-game-vs-miami/irish-uniform-3/

    • Numbers says:
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      Pathetic!

    • Kenny Beaver says:
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      These are so bad that they can not be real. If so, Adidas better better hire some better designers. I hate to say it but these are worse than anything Oregon ever wore, especially the helmets!

    • bone says:
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      Notre Dame changing their uniforms is committing the 8th cardinal sin.

  • bizbeav says:
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    Hello Gents,

    I was talking with a buddy of mine who still has close ties to OSU athletics from his days in BASF and the athletics dept. He had the chance to catch up with an old colleague currently at OSU with some inside insight and here are the basic points:

    ****Talked to a buddy at OSU today. Here’s what he told me about football

    Not surprising: WR’s are really good. Thin at most every other position, but so is everyone in the conference. Riley will be calling plays. WR coach is amazing. Told Gwacham after a poor route “That’s a five yard route, run it that way! If the DB is in your way, run his a$$ over! Can someone who wants to run the route the right way take his place!” No messing around with this guy. Mannion is looking good. O and D line have to step up. Really good potential, but a lot still TBD.

    Mildly surprising: Secondary is getting burned over the top, a lot! He’s unsure if it’s our amazing WR’s or our safeties screwing up often. He said the DB coverage is good, but deep ball is killing the safeties. Storm Woods ran number one at last scrimmage. 52 yards on 11 carries with trips to the endzone, agnew has been running number one til this last scrimmage. He thinks their basically tied at this point. LB’s are fast, especially outside backers. This is key for us v the spread.

    More surprising: He thinks we’ll play Wisco tough. Thinks we have 7-5 in us. Thinks Riley is def different this year. Bobby D asked Mike what he’s gonna do different this year because things need to change. Bobby D is not holding back that MR better get it going. Level of intensity is noticeably different this year. Last year when we rolled WSU with all those wheel routes, great plays, loose offense – guess who called plays that game? Riley. *****

    Anyway, I wouldn’t bother with posting this stuff if it wasn’t from a good source, so hope you guys found it useful. I am hoping Riley calling plays this year will actually happen.

    Go Beavs.

    • angry angry says:
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      Awesome, thanks for sharing.

      Love Brennan (and Bray)…think both should be higher up on the staff, tbh.

      Would love to have Brennan as OC and Bray as DC one day (soon)

      • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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        Hope the play calling thing is true. Explains the WSU game.

    • oneoldbeav says:
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      Thanks so much for that, biz.
      The knock on safeties is disappointing but more than offset by the great news relating to the staff and Riley.

      OT: heard Dylan Wynn on am620 tonight, he is very very well spoken and has me anxious for September! His attitude, coupled with the comments bizbeav has passed along make me even more certain that the Beavs will play the Badgers tough. But, as always, one game at a time. GO BEAVS

      BTW on the same program Langs, in discussing the RB’s, didn’t even mention Chris Brown. Seems a redshirt is likely in his future…..just my guess.

      PS: Canzano’s article is also encouraging regarding Riley’s attitude this time.
      http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2012/08/canzano_mike_riley_prefers_to.html

      • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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        Encouraging? Riley ….”want to do better and better”…. So he worked hard and went from a winning season, to a 5-7 and on to a 3-9. Yep….better and better.

        Riley just doesnt talk like someone who is all there mentally. Maybe he just doesnt think well during interviews, but his disconnect is discouraging. Like last year when you could see him on the sidelines during a loss, smiling. Disconnected.

    • bone says:
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      Good stuff.

      The weakest area of our coaching staff to me is our coordinators both O & D. Our position coaches for the most part are very good (a couple of them I don’t know too much about). We have a couple who seemed destined to get promotions. In a perfect world I would not want our O & D to be so bad that we have to fire to make switch, but instead a nice transition to where we are playing at a high level and then make the moves to have us playing at a higher level.

      • bizbeav says:
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        When I had the chance to read through this info from my friend, I have to admit it made me feel pretty good. I certainly don’t want to breed false hope into the season, but I think we will see some better stuff this time around out of the Beavs – hopefully it should translate to more wins.

        If I hear anymore information or if there is something I think the blog would like to hear, (good or bad) I’ll be sure to pass it along.

    • Jack says:
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      One thing to consider about the DB’s getting beat over the top… Mannion and Vaz worked hard with the receivers to build a rapport and a rhythm. I talked to a friend who has been to couple practices, and he says when Mannion chucks one deep he could swear it’s going to be 20 yards too long… you know, in typical Beav fashion. But the receivers are running under the ball in stride and just reaching out to catch these balls as if Mannion were standing next to them dropping the ball in the right place.

      I can’t imagine how many balls he’s thrown to get that kind of timing down. That sort of play is pretty much impossible to defend if Mannion is reading across the field as well. If he so much as makes the S over the top pause for a split second, the only way a CB can beat a decent WR to the right spot is for the CB to know the spot before the play.

  • oneoldbeav says:
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    I didn’t get all the details, but it sounds like it will be worth listening to am620 in PDX at 6pm THURSDAY and at 7pm switching to am1190. It’s part of a 6-9pm event at Spirit Mountain and both Preece and Wilson are expected.

    EDIT: Found the details here: http://www.osubeavers.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/082012aab.html?utm_campaign=Argyle%2BSocial-2012-08&utm_medium=Think%2BLocal&utm_source=facebook&utm_term=2012-08-21-11-00-00

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    @CliffGT
    Reports say the Civil War on Nov. 24 in Reser Stadium will kick off at 4 p.m. and be broadcast by Fox.

    • wannabeav says:
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      I certainly hope this is true. I’m getting sick of these noon and 1 p.m. kickoffs. Cuts into productive tailgating time (and with a lousy team tailgating becomes more important rather than less in terms of game day enjoyment). And, nothing bespeaks of OSU’s demise than the absence of late afternoon and evening kick-offs. We’ve been playing in the Division II and I-A time slot.

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