28.Oct.2013 Did Sean Mannion Play Well?

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The numbers look decent, but only 6.6 yards per completion.

My two issues are he missed Cooks on a wide open TD. Easy throw.
And then forcing the ball into double coverage on the last play. He had Mullaney wide open behind cummings. If you watch the coverage before the snap, the left back of the end zone was wide open. Mullaney ran a post right into that area, and would have had the score (I don’t have access to any replay, so that’s from memory).

Point being, I think any of the truly great, clutch QBs (Kellen Moore is probably the best I ever saw) would make those plays, would win the game…Mannion managed the game, and blew the two chances he had to win it. I don’t consider the fact he threw 57 times without an interception some kind of moral victory. Especially when the yards per completion were only 6.6. He played average, at best, and I think if he were on the Ducks you’d all admit that.

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  • ObjCritic says:
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    Did he play well? Yes. Did he play great? No.

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    I think that should be 6.6 yards per completion. I’d gladly take 6.6 yards per attempt, (which is actually worse than his seasonal stats before the Stanford game I think)

  • krogercomplete says:
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    Have people been saying he played great? I for one think he showed good composure given the circumstances; I don’t think you’ll find many QBs at any level who will get the shit kicked out of them the way he did and manage to hold it together as well. But to your point, he missed some opportunities and made mistakes. I’m not sure how I would characterize the performance overall, but I probably wouldn’t call it great.

    But, if this ends up being Mannion’s low point for the season, I’d consider that pretty great. We’ll see what happens.

    • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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      his low point will be the civil war. There’s 3 guarantees in life. Death, taxes and a blowout win by the ducks in the football civil war

      • Issaquahbeav says:
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        Disagree. I think he’ll have a pretty good game against Oregon. Stanford defensive front are studs. I think Mannion throws for 300+ with 3 or 4 TDs in the Civil War. Kudos to Mannion for holding onto the ball when getting blown up against Stanford

        • whiskey soaked napkins says:
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          based on what? Do you not think Oregon has a good or decent defense? Based on what I’ve seen, this is the MO on duck games. opponent falls behind by 14 points or more and starts to panic, duck defense gets aggresive and starts forcing turnovers. Game then gets out of hand. Disagree?

          • issaquahbeav says:
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            Based on seeing Stanford’s D in person on Saturday. No way Oregon has a better defensive front and linebackers. Plus, I think Mannion et al can learn from Saturday’s game. I didn’t say OSU was going to win but I believe Mannion can do some damage.

          • Jack says:
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            That’s the way I read it. Mannion could go 85% for 450 yards and 4 TDs… and we could still lose 61-38.

      • Krogercomplete says:
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        He might get smoked by the ducks. Not sure. I am just saying that if Saturday was Mannion at his worst, good grief!

  • wannabeav says:
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    within the known limits of his competency, yes, he played well. As noted at the end of the post game thread, he never coughed up a fumble when being sacked or harrassed, didn’t throw a pick, slid some nice throws into narrow gaps, and, in general, moved the ball well. What he didnt’ do is what he can’t do; roll out or threaten to roll out and pick up 3,4,5 yards when his internal clock tells him it’s time to cut bait. This, of course, is a great advantage to teams defensing us. Thus, for example, on the final series. Stanford could rush a mere four, dropping LB’s to double up all of our receivers, because the threat of Mannion tucking the ball and running for a TD was nil. In a same situation vs. Oregon, like in 10 days, Stanford needs to bring those LB’s up close to the line of scrimmage to help contain Mariota.

  • BeavItOrNot says:
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    Yes, Mannion played well. Our O-Line was clearly terrible (blame whomever you want for that) and I think the absence of Hamlett and Smith was fatal, especially on the final four plays.

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    He did look rattled after a few of the hits he took, where his next few throws seems to be a bit off. But who wouldn’t have trouble looking sharp after getting knocked on their ass repeatedly? He was getting hit on many of the plays when he didn’t get sacked as well.

  • bone says:
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    Could have played better, that last I from my vantage point should have been caught, might not have been the easiest option, but it looked like Cummings had it but couldn’t hold on. I saw a lot of toughness from amnion that I hadn’t seen from him. This game kind of had the Alamo bowl feel, and he didn’t become gun shy like vaz did. No run game or protection this week; good game, could have been better.

  • dickassman says:
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    I don’t blame Mannion at all man look at how awful the OL was. Yeah he missed those two but no ones perfect.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    I think if others had played as well (O line) OSU wins. So I think he played well enough to win and I was impressed with the way he handled all of the hits.

  • alex says:
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    OL struggled obviously, but I really think the guys who really dropped the ball…..were the guys dropping the balls.

    To Angry’s point above, Mannion might have had a guy more open on the last play of the game, but he did make a good pass to a guy that was open, and Cummings dropped a catchable ball. When you’ve got that kind of pressure on you, why would you continue along your read progressions after you find an open guy? That is asking for disaster. You find a guy that’s open, you throw him an accurate pass, and you trust him to do his job.

    Drops were terrible all throughout the game. It’s amazing Mannion had the completion % that he did, considering that. He could have played better obviously, but I think he is close to the last offensive player I would be blaming for the results. (Ward played great and Cooks was good. Beyond that…)

  • angry angry says:
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    BeaverGopher, can you check your email?

    • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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      Got it. Will need some more info. Will send an email when I get a chance.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    I always find Egger’s notes among the more interesting post-game reading opportunities:

    http://portlandtribune.com/pt/12-sports/199039-beavers-notes-lessons-from-stanford-looking-ahead-to-usc

    Here’s a remark from Shaw:

    “Cardinal coach David Shaw said that his team’s performance against the Beavers “wasn’t good enough to beat Oregon, or good enough to be in the game against Oregon. We have a bunch of stuff we need to make sure we do in the next 12 days to play one of the best teams in the nation.”

    OSU is going to take it very light this week in practice due to injuries. Seems kinda risky given that they need to continue to work on run blocking and they’ll be facing what is allegedly one of the better defenses in the Pac.

    • bone says:
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      They aren’t going to improve much in the run game this week in practice. After that slugfest on Saturday night and a shortened week, its really important for your body to recover. This is a smart move during the season, during camp is a different story.

  • Sparkyd73 says:
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    I think to say anything bad about the Mannion performance would be neglecting all of the players around him. Did he take the team on his back? No. Did he make any major errors? No. Was he able to walk on Sunday? From what I saw, it was amazing he finished that game upright. Yet, he continued to get up and stick in the pocket, without getting happy feet.

    Overall, for the game as it was played by a team that didn’t all do their job, I would give him an A-. Angry said that he proved that he wasn’t Heisman worthy and I would counter that the team proved they aren’t Heisman worthy, and the Heisman is really a team award wrapped up in a single player award.

  • Mark says:
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    I get that it is the shtick of this blog to be critical but why get after Mannion? Can we recognize that he just went up against one of the better defenses in the country and played pretty well? I’m not saying we can never criticize him but it seems like an odd choice for an attack after that game. Especially when we got to compare him to Kevin Hogan who I thought looked pretty awful throwing the ball. Why not draw attention to the real problems on this team? Maybe that is just getting boring.

  • Mb says:
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    So, you have your top two tight ends out and you are on the 7 with four downs. How about putting Cooks in the backfield with 2 wides, 1 te and an extra o lineman in the backfield. They could then motion Cooks to either side. If your top two tight ends are gone, you have to use your available tools and improvise like Stanford . You have to put your best playmakers on the field together. And you have to give Mannion a chance by providing adequate blocking.

  • Mb says:
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    For those of you angry with Boldin, give him a break. He came to camp better prepared than many vets and so was ahead from the start. He has been poorly trained by Read. No he should not have been penalized by the scarlet R. However, two guys that did redshirt because they were/are not ready, Hunter and Walter, may have a higher ceiling. This madness of trying to redshirt everyone is anticompetitive, indentured servitude that basically trains people to become public union employees. Some guys need to be nurtured and some need to be challenged. You cannot hide everyone and expect to compete.

    • Krogercomplete says:
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      You really have a problem with redshirts Mb. This has got to be the 5th time I have heard this rant!

    • bone says:
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      Are the beavers the only team that redshirts players?

  • FedUpBeav says:
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    Would like to have seen 4 consecutive Brandin Cooks fly sweeps from the 7 yard line. He probably gets to the 2 yard line on 1st down, with a chance for a dive for the TD. Put the ball in the hands of the star and let him win it. If he can’t I can live with that 99 times out of 100. atleast in that fashion you know you put the game in the control of your best player. Mannion throwing to all these other non #1 receiver targets and noonene really Top 1 or 2 for their position on the depth chart meant a player less used to making a major crunch time play had to be ready to be the hero and they weren’t in such condensed passing lanes. The Cookie Monster would have knocked it in with 4 tries, 95 or more times out of 100 I bet. Have to give yourself the best chance and Cooks was it. They probably thought we would use him as decoy on a few plays anyway. Hope Riley doesn’t make this mistake yet again. Reminds me of the 4th quarters against UW and Stanford last year when Cooks disappeared for the most part and we did not do near enough to get him and Markus the ball as much as we should have in those 4th quarters. Whether sweeps or whatever the playmakers need the touches in crunch-time as much or more than the other 3 quarters for big wins.

    • bone says:
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      Wouldn’t the fly sweep be a little risky with no timeout and less than 30 seconds? I’m all for getting the ball in our best players hands, but the fly sweep could have been disastrous if he didn’t make it.

      • Jack says:
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        It wouldn’t have been as risky if Cooks would have thrown the ball instead of going on the sweep. Or maybe the Statue of Liberty would have broken a RB to an open field.

        But those are trick plays, and that’s cheating.

    • JD says:
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      I have no problem with the plays run from the 7. The situation was 20 seconds and no timeouts. To maximize your opportunities all plays should have been throws into the end zone. You cannot risk getting tackled short of the goal line in bounds. 1st down Mannion hit as he throws, 2nd down he didn’t see anyone open and throws it away, 3rd down well covered and a pass was forced to a tightly covered TE in the back of the end zone, 4th down the receiver drops a catchable ball in the end zone.

  • rsteve503 rsteve503 says:
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    Mannion played well. But he isnt great yet. The great ones find ways to win games like that.

    What we needed was our coaches to have a good game. And they didnt. They could have won it.

    • Jack says:
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      On the bright side, Mannion should look at this game and decide to come back next year. He can make every game look easy from here on out, and he will still know that the game hasn’t slowed down enough for him to make it look easy against a top flight D. The NFLs worst D is 20 times better than the best college D. So he now knows he needs to step up from good to great not only to win games like this, but also to move on to the next level and have success.

      • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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        My exact first though after the game. Maybe this keeps Mannion around for another year and gives 2014 a chance to be Epic.

  • Jack says:
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    Let’s put it this way. Mannion played well enough that he was the best QB playing college ball in Oregon on Saturday. He wasn’t great, but he was the only one who was asked to win the game for his team and came close. And he had to do it against one of the best Ds in the nation.

    If he makes the passes you speak of, then we’re talking about Heismannion for real right now. It would change the outcome and add a TD or two. But it wouldn’t change the useless yards per attempt/completion/whatever stat.

    So using that stat is an incorrect measure for your argument… or any argument measuring a QBs worth for that matter. And you need to define “well” relative to great or poor. I see it as game-manager mode without making costly mistakes. I see great as that plus taking the plays you outline above.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    OT – The unis keep getting more absurd. Check out Texas Tech’s latest offering:

    http://www.oregonlive.com/collegefootball/index.ssf/2013/10/if_oregon_is_the_master_of_rev.html

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    USC fears the chainsaw. Also, sounds like Marquis Lee could still be out this week. Listed as day to day but doesn’t sound encouraging for USC.

    http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-77966211/

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Yet at the Barometer, fans are criticized for leaving Stanford game early with outcome undecided:

      http://www.dailybarometer.com/sports/article_4299682c-404c-11e3-91dc-0019bb30f31a.html

      Late start too much for the OSU crowd? Hitting the road early?

      http://www.dailybarometer.com/sports/article_4299682c-404c-11e3-91dc-0019bb30f31a.html

      • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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        maybe the beavs should try winning some of these tough, high profile national network games and maybe making it to a BCS bowl game and fans just might not leave early, become new or continued season ticket holders, donate, etc. Some are tired of the same old beavers. Good, but not quite good enough and can’t seem to get over the hump to make a new years day bowl game. Many are tired of Hell Paso and Vegas bowls we seem to regularly only be good enough to make. Just sayin, that’s my 2 pesos cause that’s the boat I’m currently in.

        • FedUpBeav says:
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          Yep, fans are starting to get beyond frustrated that Riley is 0 for 12 or worse in BIG games with real implications that mean something more. Those are the ones we just keep losing. Could care less about the Sun Bowl or worse. Holiday Bowl is just slightly interesting and mostly just because we haven’t been there. It is only on the slightly above average end of mediocre though and nothing to be giddy about even though Riley swims around in Vegas and Kraft bowls with some Sun bowls being the more common upper end like a hog in mud heaven. And BDC blowing his wad for this is what many are tired of and perturbed about.

      • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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        I would say it’s more a function of all of these night games then anything. I always stay till the end even if we’re getting routed, but I’m a night owl in my 30’s. Not getting back to Portland until 2:00 am has to be tough for many of the people in the stands who typically wake up at 5:00 am (with many pee breaks in-between.)

        You can even see Autzen emptying out if the game is in hand by 10:00 pm. The 7:30 starts are tiresome.

  • carltogr carltogr says:
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    Some great points regarding QB being able to run….I’ve been wondering in my head about this for a while. The super bowl caliber QBs like John Elway, Joe Montana, Steve Young, and Tom Brady always seem to pick up a key first down running the ball somewhere when the game is on the line. If we have 3 and 4 yard pickup kind of guy, then we win this game — Eastern Washington QB did a great job of knowing when to run on our D. Riley needs to coach his players to “cut bait” and run for your life to pick up the first down. Granted we don’t want to see him get in the habit of it and become more exposed to injury, but sometimes you have to man-up and go for it. We had about five plays where we could have used a roll out either pass or run(threat of the QB run) option.

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    Fans leaving early is never cool, but I do think the late start contributed to people thinking it was safe to leave early to hit the road home. Most of the people I saw leaving my section were with their kids. Having the game on ESPN and starting at 7:30, with all of the ridiculous official timeouts and commercial breaks, it was getting pretty late. Not everybody has unlimited free time in the evenings to leisurely drive home. In addition, the entire row behind me was a big (20 people maybe?) group of Stanford fans, and they were all leaving after the OSU punt as well.

    Just explaining what I saw. If this game had started at noon, or even 4:00, I don’t think you would have seen quite the same exodus happening.

    • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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      I do. Most thought the outcome was decided at that point

      • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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        2 plays after the punt, the Beavs recovered that fumble in Stanford territory, which was equivalent to getting nearly 50 yards downfield had they not punted, yet the fans kept filing out. I didn’t feel like it was in doubt at that point. Yet the fans kept heading down the stairs. I was really surprised more of them didn’t turn around or find an empty seat to see how things played out.

        • carltogr carltogr says:
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          ….the reason why I bought cable….the Hotels suck in Corvallis, and I can’t stand driving home in the middle of the night — did it three times last year. I guess I am not as die-hard as I should be….

          • carltogr carltogr says:
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            …..nothing like driving home tired with a bunch of drunk fans to road rage about the loss….

          • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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            Totally agree. I left the game after the final play, walked to my car, went through a drive thru for some junk food and headed home. Arrived at my home in Portland at 1:30 AM. Didn’t get to sleep till around 3:00 because when I got home, my kid woke up and decided it was time to eat.
            Staying overnight in Corvallis wasn’t an option (plus who wants to spend $100+ to sleep 1 1/2 hours from home?) Luckily the roads were dry and visibility was good that night, otherwise traffic would have taken at least another 30 minutes.

            We were moving pretty fast on I-5, probably thanks to all of the fans that hit the road early. Sometimes that drive can be torture when it’s raining and drunken fans drive like maniacs.

        • FedUpBeav says:
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          I turned the game off on the radio around this time to have sex with my girlfirend and honestly I wish I had turned it off even a little earlier. Don’t regret it one bit. Bottom line is even though OSU had a shot to make it interesting, 95% or more still felt OSU and Riley were going to end up losing it, so they kept on walking. The Barometer writer needs to acknowledge that fans are tired of being let down in big games that could mean a very special season. The Stanford game just confirmed that we didn’t make the most of Mannion and Cooks for another opportune year and now must hope that both return for yet another try for which Riley will almost for sure somehow snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and not capitalize on what would be the best senior duo in the nation should OSU get them back. The cycle has become too predictable. Bet on OSU for games that tease something better and bet even heavier against them when anything truly substantial is at stake.

          • ObjCritic says:
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            Did SHE wish you’d turned off the game earlier? FedUpBeave FedTheBeav…..

          • krogercomplete says:
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            Why are you watching any of the games? Why even turn the Stanford game on?

          • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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            filled up beav

          • BeavItOrNot says:
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            Trying hard not make any jokes about other beavs that may also be fed up.

    • carltogr carltogr says:
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      In my view….the fans that stayed are the true thick/thin fans. That doesn’t mean the other fans are non-fans, just that they sit on the edge of the bandwagon; walked away from a good game, and have grown accustomed to losing the big game (unless it is USC). If OSU starts winning these types of games, then expect these types of fans to stick it out. It is what it is….OSU is real close to starting a revolution for or against….

      • angry angry says:
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        What advantage does a thick and thin fan have over a bandwagon fan, or a fan who just wants to leave early to beat traffic? They get rained on more? And this proves what?

        • Jack says:
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          More free popcorn.

        • krogercomplete says:
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          I think the impact in the stadium is palpable to everyone there, including the team and any recruits who are watching. Just like booing the Beavs is. It honestly was pathetic watching people around me pile out of the place, even AFTER the fumble. Jesus.

          I fully appreciate BeavBlazer’s point about the late night, long drive, especially for those with kids, but that is only part of what was happening.

          It is this sort of stuff that gets you a reputation for having a terrible fanbase. We are trying to get kids to want to play for this team and go to this school. Real helpful.

          • angry angry says:
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            NCAA football attendance is in decline nationally. People are poorer, and they’re staying home to watch games. If recruits need an ego boost in order to attend a school, they’ll have to get it from social media rather than live fans. This applies to all colleges not just OSU.

          • krogercomplete says:
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            We’re talking about fans who already paid to get in.

            And I’m not sure ego boost is the right way to describe it. I think there is a feeling of community around a team, of which the fanbase is a huge part, and that community is part of what people are considering during recruitment, not to mention the players actually playing. Leaves you with a bad taste in your mouth to watch the exodus, even when the outcome of the game is very much in doubt. Just a shitty feel to it, and I think it rubs off on everyone.

          • BeavItOrNot says:
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            Agree 100%.

            To think that stadium atmosphere, and by extension, the quality of a program’s fans, is not a serious factor in a recruit’s decision making exposes some serious naivete.

            Anyone who is defending those fans that headed for the exit Saturday is fighting a foolish and losing battle. That is the hallmark of a bad fan base (i.e. Miami Heat fans). I was astonished to see it happen.

            Some around here can try and couch it as “fans demanding more” or “fed up with the status quo” but that’s horseshit. It was a tight game against the #8 team in the country. Fans have a right to leave but to those fans that did, I hope the school, program, BDC, etc. care what you think about as much as I do, which is to say, not at all.

            If a fan base wants to have a say and demand more out of a program, then the fan base must provide the requisite support for such change. I see a fan base that is getting more than it deserves.

          • carltogr carltogr says:
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            It is what it is.

          • carltogr carltogr says:
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            This is where BDC and gang could take notice, and see if going back to scheduling games during the day helps with attendance/staying. I remember the Ducks having the same issue with late night games. Coverage is great, but the fans are getting tired IMO.

          • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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            it’s not BDC’s decision. Game times are set depending on what network decides to pick up the games

          • Jack says:
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            What does that mean for the Ducks? Autzen was pretty sparse with about eight minutes left, and it got really empty about two game minutes later. It was just before 7pm, and they were winning. But are the fans who left just lousy fans?

            What the hell is this all about anyway? If I pay money to see a game, that’s my choice. I don’t owe anyone anything besides being a good citizen. Choosing to go or not go does not affect anything. Choosing to stay or leave does nothing to alter that either. I paid my money to OSU (or whomever). They owe me the product for which I paid. That doesn’t mean winning or losing. That just means they owe me one sporting event if I choose not to waste my money and attend. Only one side of this contract is obliged to stay until the product is provided… unless you’re Grambling I guess.

            If I choose to leave a movie or a concert or some other comparable event, that’s my choice. I don’t owe the movie a good reason for my absence. I don’t owe the artist anything besides the money with which I’ve already parted.

            Calling out any fan for leaving is an exercise in moral relativism.

          • krogercomplete says:
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            You can come and go freely. Do what you want, whenever you want. It certainly isn’t illegal or a breach of contract, and I’m not necessarily calling it immoral either (whatever that means). That doesn’t make it any less shitty feeling when people bug out en masse when the game is still on the line. My argument (really just a hypothesis) is that this does in fact create a shitty atmosphere that impacts players and recruits, who are right there in the stadium to watch it unfold (or to watch it on tv). Let’s just assume that it does have an impact; you’re still free to come and go as you please, but understand the impact that collective action is having.

            That being said, this is situational, and the impact changes depending on the circumstances. I think the impact is different, for example, when a team is down by 50 with 5 minutes left. I also think it is different in victory than defeat. Maybe just a matter of degree, but I’m not drawing too bright a line here other than to say I thought what happened Saturday was unfortunate.

          • Jack says:
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            I don’t disagree with you. My feeling is that I’ve paid my money for something I deem worthwhile, and I’m going to squeeze every dime out of my purchase that I can. I paid for an escape, not more reality.

            But I’m not going to judge anyone who leaves for whatever reason. It’s their decision alone. In fact, I don’t care if they go. It’s not my loss. But if they start to vocally berate others who decide to stay because they think they’re doing the right thing and those who stay are not, they’re going to hear from me and others who think like me. I think that would be as egregious as me calling them out for leaving.

            Besides, I sat through too many full games when we had zero hope. And this was back in the day when the old west side was still up. I like to watch people as much as I like to watch the game. So sitting through a whole game in what is a completely different stadium (and full of people) is just a fun experience for me. I’ll sit and watch the whole crowd leave before I eventually get up and go.

            It’s moral relativism because neither side is right or wrong. It’s a business, and it’s up to the business to keep its customers. It’s not the customer’s place to berate others who paid the same or more for the same product.

          • BeavItOrNot says:
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            I think the idea that this is nothing more than a business is where you and Kroger (and me) part ways. If I understand what you’re saying (always a big “if”), you think the relationship between fan and team is essentially severed the minute the ticket is purchased – it’s your ticket and your seat, use it or don’t use it how you want and no one can get on your case for your decision.

            I think Kroger’s point is that there is a community element at play and furthermore that how you use your ticket does impact everyone else because it impacts the stadium environment and the team (in their performance, recruiting, etc.).

          • Jack says:
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            I know what he’s saying. And I agree. But I will never call anyone out for it because I don’t know their motivations until they voice them. If they voice them during my time in my seat enjoying the product I paid for, then they’ll have hell to pay. I expect to receive the same treatment from them if I do so while they quietly leave.

            That’s why I don’t worry about them. It’s not my job to worry about them. It’s the job of the business providing the product to worry about what its customers do. If they don’t like it, then they should do something about it.

            I will say one thing. If that business takes the time to single out certain customers and label them things like “bad customers” and “not representative of the kind of customer we want,” then that business is already on the way to bankruptcy. When people pay money for a product, they expect something in return. Perhaps the people who left the game early got all they valued out of the product based on their expectations. Perhaps OSU needs to manage their customers’ expectations better than free popcorn, lost and found, finally (sort of) opening Truax and scattering tailgating and RV parking to the wind.

          • BeavItOrNot says:
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            I think you have a very narrow definition of community. I’ve read your take on fandom as nothing more than the ability to brag to your friends about how well your team is doing, and I think that is very narrow also. But at least we know why we disagree.

          • angry angry says:
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            Describe how you are part of the players’ community, then. Being in the same location as someone makes you part of their community? I violently disagree and need to hear that argument.

          • BeavItOrNot says:
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            It’s not just about, or even very much about, being in the same location. The team and its fans are part of a community formed by and consisting of the team and its fans. It’s not just about the players either – when I referenced the “community element” above, I was talking as much about a fan-fan relationship as I was a fan-player relationship.

            I don’t think it’s necessary for a fan to be friends with the players or run in the same circles for them to feel a sense of community with the team as a whole. I realize you don’t live here or ever go to games, and you may lose some of that a result.

            It’s way too cold and frankly inaccurate to marginalize the relationship between fan and team as a mutual ego stroke.

            With more time I am sure I could provide a more thorough response, but this is it in broad strokes.

          • angry angry says:
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            Okay, I understand how being in the location where something is happening can give that feeling, but I just don’t think it is accurate. Emotions are nuts and wildly inaccurate. Observe behavior when you’re out and see how quickly people turn on one another in simple daily events. The sense of community is a luxury, allowable when there’s peace and amicability or a mutual desire. At the end of the day, though, individuals act in their self-interest. Social media is fascinating in the insight it gives to the human condition. I challenge you to find any legit community on a players twitter/fb. At best you find “thanks to the fans for their support”, which is a nice way of saying “thanks for being behind ME”. It always comes down to the individual and ego. When people get nothing out of a relationship they end it.

          • krogercomplete says:
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            I’m not sure I even want to touch this one (yikes!), but I agree with Beav-It that at least I have a clearer picture of your world view.

            No one is saying they are close personal friends with the players, or even have any connection to them at all outside of following the program and watching the games. I’m not sure how to tackle defining community for you in this context–hard to articulate it without more time, and not sure I want to go down that rabbit hole.

            I would ask, why the hell do you have this blog given your apparently robotic detachment from the program, and the rest of humanity for that matter? Is this just an academic exercise for you in critical thinking? Why focus on the beavers at all? I am having trouble reconciling the time you spend on this sight with your apparent world view and thoughts on fandom.

          • Jack says:
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            Instead of ego consider tribalism.

          • angry angry says:
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            What do you mean, Jack?

            Are you saying other cultures with tribalism have true community?

          • Krogercomplete says:
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            Angry, not sure that really addresses what I was driving at, but whatever.

            On community, maybe it would be easier to ask what you mean when you say community.

            My original point was just that shitty fan atmosphere negatively impact the whole program. I don’t disagree that most actions are driven by self interest, but I don’t know that that has much to do with what I am talking about. You agree that people do in fact have relationships, to varying degrees, with other people, right? And that people do in fact feel connected to various things, for whatever reason?

          • Jack says:
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            If people are acting in their own self-interest, then it’s less likely that they act based on the need to feed their egos than it is for their need to feel belonging within a group of like-minded individuals… who wear the same clothes, chant the same chants, etc., etc., blah. When the group is whole and in unison, those who need it are comfortable and secure in a community-like feeling. Disrupt that security and you will hear the wails of discomfort.

            It’s not reality. It’s an escape. But some people can’t detach and can’t understand why some do.

          • krogercomplete says:
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            I think I understand what you are saying, Jack, but I don’t think you are framing the options correctly. This isn’t about reality v. escape. All of this is reality. We all do a number of different things in our life, and we do them for different reasons and we put varying degrees of emphasis on them. It isn’t accurate to describe one subset of those things as “real,” presumably making everything else unreal. Following a sports team, going to games, and feeling connected to a community of fans and/or players that comes with that is all very real. Certainly, you can distinguish these activities as “recreation” as compared to say your work life, love life, etc. and that will color how seriously you take it all.

            Maybe your point is just a matter of seriousness. And I am not claiming you need to place your sports team as the number 1 emphasis in your life. I don’t think many people do that. But, I also think that 90% of sports fans would agree that there is in fact a feeling of community that comes with following a sports team. The biological/psychological/social underpinnings of that I am not going to attempt to fully describe or define.

          • krogercomplete says:
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            First, I don’t subscribe to the notion of souls, or really anything supernatural, so I’ll go a step further and say EVERYTHING is primitive biology, chemistry, and physics. I don’t see this as having much impact on our discussion.

            Second, I wouldn’t describe community, at least not the way I mean to use it, as an “emotion” (i.e. anger, jealousy). At its broadest, it is simply a group of people with something in common. There is a relationship, at some level, of some degree, that forms as a result of that commonality and whatever shared experience and interaction there might be between the community members. Norms and rules for behavior arise; a certain ethos develops; connections are formed; actions of certain group members have real impact on other group members, good or bad. That’s society right there. I asked you before, you agree that people do in fact form relationships, right? Emotions obviously color those relationships, along with how you feel about the community, what it means to you, etc. Whether you “trust” your primitive emotions or not, and whether people are mostly driven by self-interest, doesn’t change the fact that all of this stuff is actually happening.

            And I also think you are being too limited in what you define as an action driven by self-interest–Jack hit on it earlier. Self-interest can bring you further into the community, not just detach from it.

            What I am saying is that within this Beaver football community, the fans leaving thing has an impact on the rest of the community, and also that I suspect most of the fan population would agree that fans leaving, in certain circumstances, is a violation of community norms for acceptable behavior. Obviously not everyone agrees with the latter, but you seem to agree because you also believe that fans leaving is shitty.

            For the same basic reasons, I think there is more going on here than an arms length business transaction like me buying toilet paper. That is certainly one component of it.

            I asked you why write this blog because it seems odd to me that someone would spend so much time writing about, analyzing, criticizing Beaver athletics when you appear to profess complete detachment from it.

            Psychopaths, eh? First of all, I’m not sure how many women you’ve met in your life, but I seriously question the long term reproductive success of cold, emotionless robot men, unless they are rapists. In any event, I’m not sure reproductive fitness equates with “higher” states of being, but I don’t know what you mean by “higher”–you’d rather be a psychopath? I think we’re running into the naturalistic fallacy here, but I’ve written too much already.

          • Jack says:
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            Most actions that are done in self-interest are not egotistic. I don’t find shelter because I want to brag about it to others. I don’t sleep on the bed instead of the floor because I want to toot my extreme horn. I don’t read books just so I can tell everyone I meet that I read books, and that makes me a great person.

            Wanting to belong, while an action of self-interest, is not an act of egotism unless the individual views it as something exclusive and, therefore, worth a subsequent display of false or excessive arrogance and superiority. I know many fans act this way, but the vast majority are fans for other reasons.

          • krogercomplete says:
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            I agree it’s judgment, though I’ll concede I am not fully clear on what level I am passing this judgment or even to what degree. I will say I am comfortable labeling Saturday’s exodus as generally messed up, pending a conversation with every person as to what exactly their motivation was (i.e. was your house on fire?). It doesn’t sound like Angry really disagrees with me; he just chalks it up as inevitable given a flawed humanity.

            I think there is more going on here than just business–much of what you say is true, and it IS a business, but I’m not ready to view all this through that cold and calculating lens. Don’t misconstrue what I say–I’m not saying it’s magical, and it is just a game. But there is something cold and unnerving about certain “fan” behavior, not to mention the negative impact that I do believe it has on the program. In that sense, I care what the others are doing, even if you don’t.

            I think that is about as much as I can muster on this topic.

  • carltogr carltogr says:
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    …..it proves they are tough SOBs, and that if they look hard enought, they just may find a Win in the new “Lost and Found”.

  • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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    duck luck strikes again. I swear they made a deal with the devil. This shit happens all the time

    http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9899094/de-ben-gardner-miss-rest-season-stanford-cardinal

  • whiskeysoakednapkins says:
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    lol!!!!! The greatest letter ever written. Tells me what I already knew

    http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2013/10/canzano_blog_ex-ducks_player_t.html#incart_river_default

  • carltogr carltogr says:
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    I believe the bottom line to this whole mess, is that all of us are big fans of the football program period — or else we wouldn’t be here….currently we are in a pattern, a couple decent years with a couple of off years. Each year there are different expectations, and some how Riley finds ways to beat a good team (Wisconsin), and then find ways to lose to a good team (Texas, Washington), and lose to a mediocre team (Sacramento State, and Eastern Washington). When was the last time we had a quality win on national TV….? BYU, Wisconsin. Somehow those don’t seem to counterbalance the Boise State, Penn State, Cincinnati, Louisville, Sacramento State, Eastern Washington, and Orego blowouts (exception being the FCS). People are tired, tired of losing big games at home. We need to defend home turf against a top ten team on national TV to get some of the swagger back give people a reason to stay at the game…..not saying its right, but its the spark the OSU fans need.

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