22.Jan.2012 Oregon Sanctions?

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Darron Thomas to the NFL.

LaMichael James to the NFL.

Chip Kelly to the NFL.

Bellotti says he's not interested in the job.

Writing is on the wall, folks. Just wondering how bad it will be–probably somewhere between USC and the death penalty. Keep an eye out for freshman and sophomores transferring—that'll give a sign to length. My prediction is a 3 year bowl ban and scholarship reductions.

With regard to the Beavs, Glad to see him gone, even if I do like the idea of beating the best to be the best. The reality is the Beavs would never do that.

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  • NCAA_viOlation says:
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    Wait. What? Where is the Chip Kelly news coming from? I’ve been under a rock for 30 minutes and look what happens…

  • Beaver Byte says:
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    Channel 8 is reporting that Chip is about to sign on to coach Tampa Bay.

  • angry says:
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    See edit: Bellotti says not interested in the job.
    Ruh roh.

    Remember those arguments I had with Duck fans over the summer…? Yeah.

  • Gman says:
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    If the frosh and sophs start transferring.. then yes. Otherwise, there is no evidence for sanctions.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    What’s to like in Tampa? : )

    I too regret that he’s gone from a competitive, not ethics standpoint. But as I warned my former UO ex-girlfriend, all the accomplishments of the past 3 years are going to be called into question, perhaps some of the nullified.

    Time to poach some UO d-line recruits?

  • mckalk says:
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    It’s got to be sanctions coming, right? Otherwise, didn’t it look like next year set up nicely for another major NC run? Sure, USC in the coliseum would be a major obstacle, but they were going to be in the conversation for awhile.

  • rsteve503 says:
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    Well, our own Mike Riley jumped to the pros and hadnt done anything to even generate NCAA investigation interest. And, UO is a primo coaching job, unlike OSU when Riley left. Of course there was nothing visible in the way of violations, like we have now with UO.

    So….. I say this IS an indication of a storm a-brewin. With their cleaner on duty, they will surely know what the NCAA is finding, and Chip may think its time to go, just like Pete Carroll did.

    Interesting!.

  • beaverkman says:
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    I am skeptical at this point, but would make sense with all the departures, however until I see him at the presser announcing it, I won’t believe it.

  • HopefulBeav says:
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    Time for Riley to muster up his inner-salesman and go after Tyner again.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Actually, James to NFL isn’t unreasonable, given that he’s not getting any bigger/faster. He’s done enough…BUT FOR the “mentoring” relationship withe Lyles…

    Thomas is what got me. Another year like this past season, and he’d STILL likely be a free agent in the pros. No semblance of NFL quality passing – throwing to wide open WR’s in that offense? Not the same….And while a very good athlete, he’s not off the charts like Newton, or even Dixon (whose slight frame I thought would be a deterrent to substantial NFL playing time).

    Be too sweet if this past Rose Bowl was vacated…

    Fun to start watching their recruits. What do they do now – promote the offensive coordinator in an attempt at continuity?

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Didn’t Rich Brooks go to the NFL for a bit? Atlanta or something?

  • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    My sources say chipster def to Tampa, but then my only source is angrybeavs.com so….

  • beaverkman says:
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    Chris Peterson just got a phone call.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    I thought Chip might to to St. Louis or Indianapolis. Who’s the QB in TB again, he’s pretty athletic and mobile, right?

  • beaverkman says:
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    Chris Young verbals

  • angry says:
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    It’s official!

  • Beavergopher says:
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    Punt returner single handedly loses game for 49ers.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      I can’t stand the Giants…was hoping for Niners/Patriots.

      What a coach harbaugh has been, both at Stanford and SF.

    • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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      No he didn’t.

      • Beavergopher says:
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        Are you related or something?

        • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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          No, I just actually watched the game.

          • Beavergopher says:
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            Watch again…………you missed the two devastating muff/fumbles. You can’t be serious. Lets have an AngryBeavs vote on the subject.

            • VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
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              Team sport.

              • BeavMonkey says:
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                Agree with this.

                you could also say that Lee Evans single handedly lost it. I mean he had the ball in his hands for the win(maybe not held very strongly).

                Kyle Williams played horrendously. He dropped all four of the passes Flacco threw his way. However, I can understand why they would have put him in for Ted Ginn Jr. He has the same kind of speed that Ginn does. This was evident when he returned that kick for 40 yards to set up the TD.

                But really, two plays done differently wouldn’t have changed the outcome. You could say the dropped INT by the SS also single-handedly lost the game. I mean, I didn’t see anyone in front of him, and I am rather doubtful that Alex Smith would have tackled him a la Christian Ponder.

    • rsteve503 says:
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      Yep….that was pitiful. I wonder what Harbaugh is doing to him right now….

      • Beavergopher says:
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        Jason thinks he earned himself a contract extension and a lifelong friendship with Captain Comeback.

  • FatDog says:
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    I would really rather have seen him fired like Tressel. But I am vindictive.

    • Beavergopher says:
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      I like the way you think!

    • mckalk says:
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      I want to see Erin Andrews put one of her spiked heels into the Chipster’s man boobs as a nice send off…..wait sorry that was a different fantasy.

  • mckalk says:
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    It will be interesting to see if it is sanctions or ego. Many a great college coach has felt the need to see if what they do translates to the NFL. Chip will get another college job in a heartbeat even if he fails.

  • osu2008 says:
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    Duck fan I talked to says he isn’t worried about Chip going to NFL because they’ll just go out and get Petersen from Boise St., but I don’t think that will happen. Good news, but Riley really better get his shit together and get the program going again at OSU.

    • brownale9000 says:
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      Peterson JUST signed a 5 year contract extension for $1.625 million a year. With Boise State heading to a BCS conference, two of the major reasons for leaving are taken care of.

      Oregon is still, even with sanctions, a very good job…but they won’t get Peterson.

      • mckalk says:
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        Now wouldn’t be a bad time for Petersen to leave. I think there is going to be slight talent downtrend at Boise next year and does he really want to fart around another year in the Mountain West? Petersen has Oregon ties, once in a lifetime opportunity if the sanctions aren’t devastating.

        • osu2008 says:
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          With sanctions (which I think are coming soon), Peterson or TCU’s Gary Patterson are not going to want to leave solid programs for a mess that will be awaiting them in Eugene, especially if there are bowl bans, loss of scholarships, etc. Duck fans think Tony Dungy will want to go there because he has a son there, but I think he is happy what he’s doing now as an analyst or guidance counselor for guys like Vick. Bellotti… maybe, but probably not. Dan Hawkins wouldn’t be considered because he failed at Colorado. It will be interesting.

          Speaking of Oregon and NCAA sanctions, is there anything new reguarding the men’s b-ball program? The NCAA was sniffing around them too for awhile.

  • Beavergopher says:
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    Willie Lyles announced as new U of O coach.

  • mckalk says:
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    I guess The Oregonian is in denial, nothing confirmed. Canzano babbling about “what ifs”.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    I lost a lot of respect for Canzano this year. First saying “I’m a sucker than, I’m a sucker now” when Kelly lied to him about Lyles. Then fawning all over Kelly the rest of the season…I hope serious sanctions come out and Canzano gets to eat more crow. I mean, Duck…

  • beaverkman says:
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    Biggins reporting Shelton loved UW, but he’s still committed to BEAVERS! Is going to Tennessee next weekend.

    • wannabeav says:
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      Gotta figure Peterson is on the phone right now with his agent and the Husky AD is rushing around to make sure the Wilcox contract is signed. I wonder if Tedford would be interested after he got hung out to dry on coaching salaries? It would be easier to get even with SArk from Eugene. Keep an eye on Gary Paterson. Dan Hawkins is looking for work too.

      • ObjCritic says:
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        Patterson would disappoint me, only because he was in Eugene instead of Corvallis….you think it would be a big upgrade for him conference and exposure-wise.

        Oregon would probably like to maintain a Texas recruiting link. I mean, besides Lyles…

      • matt b says:
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        Though most guys will jump at more money or more status, it is not true for everyone. Peterson and Patterson have good things going where they are at and have seen what happened to men who held their respective jobs previously. Besides, both of those guys had some training under Jim Sochor. And if they learned anything at all from Sochor, then they know that success and satisfaction in life is not measured by how much you make. Hawkins learned under Sochor as well. But his weak recruiting record will scare any major AD.

  • beaverkman says:
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    Loved is a little strong, more liked , sorry was a little too excited. Imagine a 40yr old getting giggly about an 18 football player saying he’s “solid” about the school he trips….

  • WFO says:
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    I’m thinking Rich Rod is kicking himself in the ass for going to AZ. Talk about a perfect fit.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Maybe Todd Grahm?

  • brownale9000 says:
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    Oregon should look long and hard at Rick Neuheisel.

  • NCAA_viOlation says:
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    I don’t watch much NFL ball, mostly for the lack of scoring and the hitting is just a little too hard for me to think of it as entertainment, especially with the number of head injuries happening.
    That being said, Chip Kelly in the NFL might actually interest me enough to watch some games again. I’d be curious to see if he could sell his system to a bunch of grown men, rather than college kids, and I’d also be curious to see what he can do with superior athletes, rather than undersized speedsters.

  • FatDog says:
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    I think Mike Stoops would be good option for UO. He and chip look a lot alike with their women’s PGA look (visor, man boobs, etc).

  • Beavergopher says:
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    You make a strong case.

  • Just asking says:
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    As loyal Beavers wouldn’t we all trade three straight BCS games for two years of sanctions? I think it is a no brainer. Also as a pure Duck hater, I would take Chip over just about any coach in college to come to Corvallis.

    • Beavergopher says:
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      Even Jerry Sandusky?

    • Jack says:
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      No.

    • sparkyd73 says:
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      Sorry, but no I would not. Maybe I’m just old school, but I still believe that cheating is wrong. A program like OS would likely not recover from those types of sanctions for a while, so it would be a short time gain for a very long consequence.

  • Beavergopher says:
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    Watch them hire Nick Saban and trigger a mass suicide by all Beaver alums.

    • BeavMonkey says:
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      Saban seems well entrenched in his spot at Alabama.

      Lets hope they hire the guy across from him.

      Chizik SUCKS and this was masked for a little while by the fact that Cam Newton is a DE sized guy with OL strength and RB speed who plays QB(and a little RB at times).

  • Mud&Sticks says:
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    Does anyone know how much of a cut in pay the Chipster will take with this “promotion”?

    • Beavergopher says:
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      Does that include losing the use of his space age Nike Pro Combat Man Bras?

  • rsteve503 says:
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    All this talk about what wonder coach UO will surely pick up, seems to avoid the problem of the potential NCAA sanctions.

    I would expect them to do well……but another genius like Kelley is unlikely.

    So the playing field will surely get a little more level, between us and them.

    • Beavergopher says:
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      if I were them I would have Bellotti as a consultant. He had a knack for finding coaching talent.

  • Beav05 says:
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    Per Greg Biggins,

    OSU still leads for Shelton….. “I liked it there a lot(UW), but Oregon State is still my leader, and Nebraska is right there as well,” Shelton said. “I just have a great vibe at Oregon State and Nebraska was my best visit, hands down. It’s not anything against Washington; it’s a great school. I just have a better feel and comfort level at the other two right now.

    Let’s see if Riley can close the deal.

  • SadBeaver says:
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    I heard 6 and change per year. Not too shabby.

  • Kenny Beaver says:
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    Peterson is interested in the Oregon job which would bring him back to the area he grew up in. His wife likes Boise and the lack of stress compared to the Pac-12. Usually the wife wins.
    Andros is the one that could have used not only a man bra but a corset. But he was our hero. How times have changed.

    • mckalk says:
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      At least Dee was modest enough to wear a black size 6XL windbreaker to hide his “assets”.

  • Kenny Beaver says:
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    I believe Kelly has a $6M buyout clause so Oregon could make some money if he goes Pro.

  • angry says:
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    I don’t care who the Ducks hire since everyone is a downgrade.

  • Kenny Beaver says:
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    My brother in law says Jon Gruden is a friend of Pal Kilkenney and he would be on the short list.
    I my mind, he would not be downgrade!

    • mckalk says:
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      How come Chuckie’s not getting any NFL offers anymore? As a college coach, I’d take Kelly over Gruden anyday.

      • Beavergopher says:
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        He is on record saying he likes broadcasting and isn’t interested in a coaching gig right now.

  • mckalk says:
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    Anyone know what Kelly’s connection is to Tampa Bay? I heard the Dolphins put out feelers two weeks ago and Kelly wasn’t interested.

  • Kenny Beaver says:
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    I think Banker knows the GM of the team and said he would be tremendous. Covering his ass for next year.

  • angry says:
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    Sorry guys, but everyone is a downgrade. There’s no other coach in the NCAA with an unstoppable offense. I’d even consider Saban a downgrade. Call me crazy all you want, but the Beavs would have a much better shot versus him than Kelly.

    • Beavergopher says:
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      Kelly is an innovator, Saban isn’t. Saban has three crystal footballs. He wins the old fashioned way with kick ass defense.

      • angry says:
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        Saban has been a head coach a lot longer. And I think Kelly would have a few of those crystals if he were in the SEC and could recruit that kind of defensive talent.

  • angry says:
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    You guys are obsessed with man boobs.

    • Kenny Beaver says:
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      I think Beavergopher and McKalk both seem to have a preference for men with boobs.

      • mckalk says:
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        I guess it’s the only area where I feel that Riley has Kelly beat. Damn, that is sad. I’m going into a dark room and cry for several days now.

  • Beavergopher says:
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    If he stays in Eugene it will really suck.

  • angry says:
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    Damn, I forgot to watch the NFL games today. Sounds like the Giant game was a good one. Harbaugh is a freaking amazing coach getting that far with Alex Smith @ QB.

    • mckalk says:
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      Hey, lay off the Ute. I don’t remember any Beaver QB in the last 100 years leading his team to an undefeated season!!!!

      • Jack says:
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        “I don’t remember any Beaver QB in the last 100 years leading his team to an undefeated season…”

        … in a very weak conference.

        • mckalk says:
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          Yes Jack that’s true, the Beavs did play in some weak conferences back in the 20′s and 30′s (at least that’s what my grandpappy told me). Now leave Alex Smith alone.

    • GoBeavs90 says:
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      Giant game was good, 49ers receiver Kyle Williams handed the game over to the Giants with fumbles on punts. If he doesn’t do that the 49ers go to the Super Bowl. They were probably the better team.

    • rsteve503 says:
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      Except for a couple kick return bozo plays, Harbaugh and Smith won the game. THEY should be in the super bowl.

  • Kenny Beaver says:
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    My bet is on the Baylor coach who knows how to score a ton of points, can beat the puppies and can’t be that highly paid.

  • Warren says:
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    Angry,

    What’s your opinion on Chris Young?

  • BeavMonkey says:
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    Guys, lets be honest.

    No other coach in the nation can do what Chip did with such limited resources.

    Sure Saban can win the national championship with Trent Richardson and a NFL quality O-line.
    Heck even McCarron looked pretty good in that game.

    Give Saban DT at QB and LMJ and Kenjon(Saban would do the intelligent thing and move DAT to CB). It will be a different story.

    Eddie Lacy, the Tide’s backup RB, is better than LMJ. Dee Hart, their other backup, who tore his ACL so didn’t play, figures to become their #2 next year behind lacy, and #1 year after that.

    I don’t even think the offensive comparison is there. Defensively I don’t know, but offensively, Chip’s offenso was better than Alabama’s by a large margin even though they were weaker at nearly every single position. Yes, really. Their OL was weaker, their RB’s were weaker, and their QB/WR’s were weaker. I think they would be weaker at almost every defensive position as well(this would change if you move Lyerla to LB and DAT to CB)

    bereft of their HC, the ducks go 6-6 with this kind of talent.

    • Jack says:
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      “Guys, lets be honest.
      No other coach in the nation can do what Chip did with such limited resources.”

      Wait… did I just read “let’s be honest,” or am I seeing the words, “I’m about to lie to you.”

      ?

  • Warren says:
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    Did you really just say “limited resources”?

    • BeavMonkey says:
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      yes.

      This year and last year, they were GREAT.

      Am I right?

      yet last year their highest pick was a fourth rounder?

      Auburn, the team they played against, had players that went picks 1 and 13.

      this year too, they do not have a first round draft pick.

      that is the definition of limited resources to me. feel free to differ.

      • Jack says:
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        You lose.

        • BeavMonkey says:
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          By resources, I meant player resources.

          I thought that it was implied from the context of my post.

          apparently not. Yes, he has good resources at the school with Phil Knight paying for it.

          But he doesn’t have the “resources” of a dozen 5* players playing for his school.

          • Jack says:
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            No!

            You don’t get to change the parameters in the middle of the game.

            The elegance of that last sentence should beat back four mental images of slave girls and teen indentureds… which are what you obviously support.

          • rsteve503 says:
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            I go along with ya, BM… I was looking to say something about Kelley’s coaching status. UO now has some 4-5 star guys at key positions, but overall, they make do with less than the SEC’s, the USC’s and so on. When pro teams introduce their players, and they say where they are from, its usually USC, Notre Dame, Ohio State, sec,….

            What Kelley did was recruit (apparently illegally but the returns arent in yet) the guys who would make his sort of offense REALLY work. Guys with breakaway speed….so when he got his offense working ok, a single play could result in a score. But in the cases we have witnessed, when UO goes up against a school with top overall talent, like Auburn last year, LSU and USC this year, they arent quite up to it.

            Still, UO has now built an image, so maybe they can bring in someone who can carry this on, aand eventually they get SEC sort of talent. But I dont think, assuming upcoming sanctions, its gonna be all that. I think they drop back a notch, and are just the “good” program they were under Bellotti.

          • sparkyd73 says:
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            Chip Kelly runs a system and he recruits to that system very well. Oregon does not have a lack of talent in any of their positions. Saying that the lack of NFL recruits that came out of Oregon proves that point is naive. The NFL looks for something different than what Oregon provides. Which, to me is why it in very intriguing to think what the Chipster is going to do in the NFL. Chip has a beautiful offensive mind, and I am sure that he would be able to adjust his offense with the talent they have at Alabama, but it would not be the exact same thing he runs now. Or, he would adjust the type of recruits that Alabama gets to run his system. Either way I think your logic is fundamentally flawed to think that Chip is working with LESS, he is just working with different.

  • beaverbeliver says:
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    Hopefully they hire Riley. Also, with the way things went down at Auburn, sanctions are a maybe. The NCAA is very erratic right now. My prediction is that they hire a big name: Peterson or Patterson and continue to destroy us.

  • Quatre says:
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    Oregon sanctions? Everywhere but here thinks the sanctions will be pretty light.

    • Jack says:
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      Really? What violations have they self-reported? We know of many, and there are certainly more than the obvious ones available.

      Or is there just nothing to see here… in this gray area… ?

    • rsteve503 says:
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      I suggest that everywhere but here, there isnt a lot of thinking going on .. but I could be wrong.

      In fact, since the season got going, and the initial whoo-raa quieted down, and both the NCAA and UO werent saying anything, there hasnt been much said about the whole thing. UO was rollin and everyone was basking in the glory of that and going to the Rose Bowl.

    • sparkyd73 says:
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      I don’t know if there are going to be major ones or not, but even some of my most green-blinded Duck friends have been coming to me lately with major concern with all of the movements going on at Oregon.

  • BeavsFan says:
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    Chip is staying at Oregon

  • Jack says:
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    Awesome!

  • rsteve503 says:
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    Huh……so this is all about a dang rumor?????

    ….someone get Willie Lyles in here, give us the straight story….

  • angry says:
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    They said it was “done”, now they say he’s staying. Okaay

    http://www.registerguard.com/web/sports/27502806-41/kelly-oregon-coach-bay-deal.html.csp

  • mckalk says:
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    I thought the Colts job seemed to be a better fit anyway.. Canzano is saying Kelly had second thoughts after realizing he was leaving his coaching staff hung out to dry. Duh, that’s kind of what happens when you leave a program.

    Be interesting to see what happens next. Duck fan should get ready for the inevitable down the road.. I wonder if other teams make a hard play for him now that they have confimed NFL interest?

  • Beav05 says:
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    Cleveland Wallace says Beavs still his leader after visiting UW and Boise State.

    • Jack says:
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      Interesting. i wonder if coaching hires have anything to do with his continued interest. Or does his relationship with the OSU staff just extend to the point that he just has problems talking to anyone else? He’s been committed a long time.

  • orangejulius says:
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    ESPN also confirms chipster staying

    http://espn.go.com/blog/pac12/post/_/id/33553/confirmed-kelly-is-staying-at-oregon

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Kelly staying kind of takes the wind out of the sails on the sanctions, and the hope that OSU might beat them in the next 4 years….

    • angry says:
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      I dunno man, it could be a stall tactic to buy time and find the guys on his staff jobs. I mean, respectable outlets confirmed it was a done deal with paperwork signed. Maybe that is true, and this is damage control, etc. We’ll see.

      • sparkyd73 says:
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        It could even be that he is trying to save the recruiting class. If so, that is a classy move.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Interesting remarks here about Gavin Andrews:

    1) 6’6″ 340 and OSU wants him trim down and move inside to guard. These are the kind of line position changes that leave me scratching my head. I suppose they’ll put a 6’2″ walk-on with short arms out at tackle….

    2) “clearly got the best of Erik Armistead..” that’s encouraging to hear, as is the jekyl/hyde nature…

    • Jack says:
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      I’ve always loved Andrews. And he did dominate Armstead on sides of the ball when they played. Weight may be an issue, but he did drop it for wrestling last year. He knows how to do it.

    • ean says:
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      dam I thought that guy looked like a prototypical OT.

      • Beavergopher says:
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        “So we move him to guard? He can help block Mannion’s vision. I get it.

  • UofDuck says:
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    “Writing on the wall”, whatever. You guys are classic underachievers looking at those who are developing something good. You rally around a hope that they fail because it somehow makes you feel better about yourself, while doing very little to do what it takes to improve your own situation. Classic.

    • ean says:
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      How did you react when Pete left USC and the sanctions came down on them?

    • oneoldbeav says:
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      Either go back to O’live or brush up on your reading comprehension.

    • ObjCritic says:
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      Chip’s return brings this into very specific relief: OSU still has to get its act together and get competitive again. And as I said earlier, it kind of takes away the rationale for thinking that serious sanctions are coming down for UO.

      OSU is making progress in recruiting o-lineman, has a promising rb in this class, some good db’s and LB’s, but still lacks the necessary DT’s. Then there’s the coaching issue we clamor about – I can’t see Riley ever outcoaching Kelly – Kelly’s team would have to be decimated by key injuries and turn the ball over for Riley to beat Kelly.

    • sparkyd73 says:
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      Ducks failing, at least in my mind, has nothing to do with the Beavers. I want to see the Ducks get sanctioned if they did something wrong. I hate cheaters. If they didn’t cheat, or the NCAA finds that they only did the proper amount of cheating (apparently Auburn fits in this category), then don’t sanction.

      I don’t think you are a very careful reader if all you got out of this thread is that we hoped Oregon slips back to where we are.

    • Jack says:
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      Hope that they fail? What kind of crap is that?

      We live with a certainty that Nikegon will be punished for cheating. If the rules don’t apply to the Ducks, then we just shouldn’t have rules.

      Cue sad “gray area” music….

      • sparkyd73 says:
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        I don’t have confidence enough in the system as a whole to believe that the punishment will fit the crime. I’m not an expert at all in these matters, but I do know enough that it something walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck.

      • Jack says:
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        Oh… and tell Chipster that a visor is still a cover. He needs to take it off for the national anthem.

        He’s a prick for that alone.

    • mckalk says:
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      Why is it wrong to want the enemy to fail while at the same time wanting the team you root for to get better? It would make my Saturday’s more pleasant to have the Ducks lose and the Beavers win, but that’s about as far as it goes.

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    Hi BN… What an impressive orgy of schadenfreude about the Kelly rumor. Whether or not Kelly leaves, whether or not they are sanctioned has nothing to do with the current sad state of OSU football.

    Beaver fan needs to focus on their numerous issues and let the Ducks be the Ducks for better or worse. JB

    PS: McKalk, the proper medical term for man boobs is moobs.

  • Jack says:
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    I want Kelly to stay. Nothing will be more satisfying than finally reading the words “show-cause.”

    Well… beating him first would do the trick.

  • rsteve503 says:
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    Agree with the Boner and Sparky on UO failing in any regard as having nothing to do with Beaver quality. Right now we suck and that has to change.

    And…UO has shown the way in several aspects. They dont have super player quality like an SEC school or a USC, but they got to three BCS bowls in a row, with a coach who really knows what he is doing, and really WANTS to win, and instilled that attitude in his players. Yeah, he may have screwed up with violations in recruiting, and maybe they will pay for it but he brought them to that next level, while our coach sat on his ass, didnt recruit, and took us down.

    But then I am not the kind of fan who HATES.

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