20.Jan.2017 Student Loan Bubble Revisited

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Now that we have Trump cutting HUD mortgage rates (i.e. houses are now more expensive for the poor), it’s a good time to revisit the college/student debt bubble. I wrote about this in detail in 2012, and the bubble has only gotten larger since, but has not to this point “popped”:

http://angrybeavs.com/academics/8020

So my question is to you: what does a Trump presidency mean for education. And the answer to that will determine what it means for our athletics moving forward. OSU has been able to bring in a great deal of revenue via Ecampus (I believe we’re top 10 in the world in that regard), and much of that is on the backs of government subsidized student loans. If Trump makes the loans more difficult to attain, gets rid of grants, raises rates on them, etc, what does this mean for OSU?

Universities across the Nation should be wondering these things. Their livelihood is very closely related to a constant stream of new students via low rates, government subsidy/grant, and the idea that a standard college education in the modern era has value (in an era of YouTube, Khan academy, etc).

Go Beavs.

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  • Homefry Homefry says:
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    OT: First…sad passing today of Craig Howard.

    http://www.oregonlive.com/collegefootball/index.ssf/2017/01/craig_howard_southern_oregon_f.html#incart_river_home

  • angry angry says:
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    On a more hilarious note, Mike Riley is trending on Twitter. “Year 3 is historically his year!”… Those poor bastards.

    • scotty says:
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      He went from 1-15 to 5-11 his third year in the NFL, so progress! He also got fired after that third year. Hmmmmm 🙂

      • Jack Jack says:
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        He might have been a somewhat successful head coach in the NFL if when his real DC had health issues he wouldn’t have flippantly given the DC job to some assistant DB coach.

        Maybe they know this?

  • cj cj says:
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    NBC

  • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav says:
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    As posted a couple threads back, yes Ecampus is tied for #8 according to US News. No idea how much revenue is involved.

    Aren’t there a number of studies which show that college costs rise pretty much in step with the level of Federal grants and the relaxed standards for obtaining student loans?

    Regardless of the effect on OSU, it is hard to argue that pushing 17/18 year olds into college is a smart societal move. Lots of kids would benefit more from learning a trade; plumbers, electricians, and auto mechanics have a better shot at providing for a family than college educated baristas.

    EDIT: Sorry, to be repeating so much of the original post.
    To answer the question, tightening of the purse strings means OSU will have to push the Ecampus concept and make other efficiency moves. Athletics will either wilt or find ways of raising funds somewhat independent of the school.

    • youngorst says:
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      Depends on how you view the purpose of college, college wasn’t always meant to be just a job’s training program.

      It was meant to create an educated society in a variety of fields/disciplines which when all put together created a strong democracy.

      Yes, we need tradesmen but I know plenty of tradesmen who send their kids to college even if the plan is to simply have them take over their business. Education has its own value which is why it needs to be affordable (if not free) like it was for the baby boomers.

      As for what happens now. Doubt much changes on this issue. The right people are getting rich off putting kids into debt before they even start their lives so the status quo will remain.

      • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav says:
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        I agree with Ughh below, I come here for Beaver Sports talk. In responding to angry’s question I got away from that.

        I must ask, however, is the current higher education system actually creating an educated society which all put together creates a strong democracy? I think not. The group-think and lack of tolerance for dissenting viewpoints has, to some degree, smacked down that lofty ideal.

        JMHO.
        I’ll leave it at that. I do agree 100% with your last sentence.

        EDIT: Can’t help myself………The degree to which the status quo you mentioned endures will be, to some degree, a measure of Trumps success or lack thereof.

        • Jack Jack says:
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          Your first post was riddled with groupthink. Your second was more reserved. But it’s still limping with indecision and impolic garbage.

          WTF man?

          Do any of you think OSU is a diploma mill like Liberty University?

          Because the new POTUS talked specifically about this while he was just shitting on the country I love… and found myself doubting for a brief moment.

          Unfortunately, people who were educated at Liberty are going to push loans on marks who don’t know that the University of Phoenix isn’t really a university.

          But this has been going on for a while. I was surprised when angry brought it up way back when. It was one of his better posts and as been referred to many times by multiple people.

          But I just can’t get past the idea that not everyone deserves an education pertinent to their skill.

          So you’ll have to excuse me while I read about a bankster fraud in which universities partake.

    • StateU says:
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      oneoldbeav your second paragraph is spot on. Didn’t see the studies, my opinion comes from my time and experience on campus. Graduate of 2014.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      That’s a neato thingy… and then I read their methodology.

      It’s actually better than their college ratings porn issue they put out annually. The peer surveys are only 20%… and listed last in the “methodology.” One would assume they do this because they think the average reader wouldn’t make it past the first couple methods before needing to do something on their phone.

      One would be wrong.

      Only nerds are reading their methodology.

      Sad.

  • Ughh says:
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    This isn’t a fucking politics board. Let’s keep it that way.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      Which way?

      You want a celibate politics board?

      • Ughh says:
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        Fuck you, Jack. You’re precisely the reason why we should keep politics off this board. If anyone has an opinion different than yours, you shit your pants and post your propaganda ad nauseam until you ruin the thread — as if you are some sort of all-knowing moral authority. Suck a dick.

        • Jack Jack says:
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          Don’t be a complete wuss. Snowflakes like you give snowflakes a bad name.

          Just be the normal, everyday wuss you usually are, and keep your butthurt crying pent up inside. Beat your children every once in a while because that’s what makes you feel like a man. And give me a link to your Yelp reviews so I can find the best dick to suck.

          You can do it, you really special man, you.

  • Bill says:
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    It’s really up to the states to determine this issue. State colleges funding is a primarily a mix of state funds and tuition. Some funding comes from the endowment and research dollars.

    http://fa.oregonstate.edu/sites/fa.oregonstate.edu/files/budget/annual-budget/fy2016_eg_budget_book_for_web.pdf
    Page 12 is the relevant chart.

    The portion provided by state funds has been decreasing for a long time. To cover the difference, tuition must be raised. Which leads to college being less affordable and requires loans taken out.

    OSU has done a better job of fundraising to help but is still behind.

    So what’s the answer? If states wanted to prioritize the issue, they could. Washington did a couple years ago and actually lowered tuition costs last year.
    http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/historic-tuition-cut-sets-state-apart-from-rest-of-us/

    The question is, where would a state get money for colleges? Legalize drugs? Raise taxes?

    None of Oregon’s weed tax is going to universities. Raising taxes would seem logical since the university’s purpose is to educate the state’s citizens. But people always think taxes are too high.

    And that leaves us in the spot we are today.

    • WFO WFO says:
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      Oregon will hemorrhage money until Tier 1 PERS is finally paid, and that’s going to be a while.

      • Jack Jack says:
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        Get off the PERS canard. There are some bad parts to it. But it’s nothing compared to the apathy of Measure 5.

        All subsequent financial decisions should be suspect.

        • WFO WFO says:
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          You must be a Tier 1 PERS leach. You always struck me as a government ball swinger, no surprise there.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Are you one of those people who always had his nose stuck to the window, watching me swing my balls?

            Sorry. They are no longer gubmint issue. When they were, they were the property of the US Navy. But thanks for noticing my balls.

            Isn’t this great? I love Trump’s America, even though it’s not really as shitty as his inaugural address said it is.

            PERS still isn’t the issue, moron.

  • OldYeller says:
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    The politics garbage is taking the enjoyment out of AB. Leave it alone. Nobody wins an argument on the internet. For the record, I voted for President Trump, in my house, today was the Day of Jubilee. I never trashed Obama on this blog, don’t think anyone did, so why all the mean spirited crap? Trash me if you want to for being a Deplorable, I actually take some pride in the tag, but give the man a chance for crying out loud, this is his first freaking day.

    • angry angry says:
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      So don’t read AB. This is relevant since it involves colleges, which are federally funded.

      • OldYeller says:
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        Don’t be a dick. Talking about college funding is relevant, trashing our President is not. You know exactly what I was referring to.

        • Beavlover69 says:
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          Don’t trash the man who spent the past several years trashing the previous president? Lol no thanks bub

      • Jack Jack says:
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        But snowflake likey sports… not talk.

        Poor snowflake.

      • Corey says:
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        I think others are making this article an excuse to discuss politics when it is definitely true that this is a relevant topic of discussion. This blog has always been about athletics but also about academics and the important issues that can affect the school. Your original post was even from 2012. Thanks for continuing to bring up topics even if they aren’t popular to everyone.

        • angry angry says:
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          Right on. It’s totally relevant given the guy wants to gut government and OSU runs on their funding. And for many other reasons. That guy is just a raging butt hurt dude.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            He is the most insecure pretend man I’ve ever seen. He makes tiger blood seem like a rational thing.

            Another thing to consider Auto Asset Backed Securities and the auto loan bubble.

    • youngorst says:
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      I’ll trash the Oompa Loompa con man whenever and wherever I want, you voted for a con man. Glad you are happy, it won’t improve your life and frankly you are a fool.

      • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav says:
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        The thing I hate about O-live boards is when it gets personal between commenters, when name calling sets in. And that happens a LOT over there!

      • Jack Jack says:
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        Seriously?

        Oompa loompa?

        Trumplethinskin… The man who rhymes with orange… Trumpty Dumpty… that guy who just said something really stupid.

        All of those are better.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      I never trashed Obama on this blog, don’t think anyone did, so why all the mean spirited crap?

      This one wins the day for either the most ignorant or the most disingenuous post of all time. But I hear it a lot from everyday people who are already distancing themselves from the Liar in Chief.

      If you have never heard that our former hoops coach is Moochelle’s brother, then you haven’t read this blog. Maybe you should read the… *ahem*… long form version of the blog.

      I love how all Trump’s supporters go all Rodney King and forget that the dufus is the king of trying stupidly to delegitimizing the office of the POTUS.

      I suppose he would have never won if the office itself wasn’t lowered to his bar. But there it is now, and all you who support this flim flam liar can expect your fair ration of daily shit for as long as he’s in office… which probably won’t be that long.

      People are saying he wasn’t even born in America. They say he was born in Jamaica. I wanna see his birth certificate.

      Oh… and please tell me how 9/11 was an inside job.

      This is the joyous fun you voted for. Don’t cry a river just because you voted for it. You’re going to get a lot worse in the future.

  • StateU says:
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    He cut a mortgage rate reduction that wasn’t going into effect until the 27th of this month. Voted for Trump here too. Deplorable me.

    • Angry@angry says:
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      Mortgage insurance too, which is essentially loans to people who don’t qualify (don’t have the money) for a traditional loan

      • youngorst says:
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        Just to be clear, most American’s would need this type of loan in order to buy their first house in modern America, being able to put 20% down is simply not realistic for virtually any young middle class person anymore.

        I used an FHA loan to get my house, then refinanced when the value went up and got rid of the insurance. Now I have about $150,000 in equity that I only have thanks to the ability to get an FHA loan. My house payment is way cheaper than rent would be so I am able to save even more.

        Reducing opportunities for this is certainly not what Putin’s puppet promised on the campaign trail. These loans are essential for most middle class people in most parts of the country.

        What’s funny, is I doubt he even knew he was signing this away, Priebus probably just handed him a pen and paper and said “this was something Obama wanted to sign it away” and he was like, “cool, can I go tweet at Alec Baldwin now?”

        Such a shit show.

        • Angry@angry says:
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          I don’t disagree with you. But people also use these as a way to spend outside their means. You also see A LOT of high end cars in the apartment complex parking lot, which I’m guessing you didn’t see 15 years ago. Just an example of how else things are different.

          • BlackBandits BlackBandits says:
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            Bingo…..it’s like economics is not taught in high school…..like real economics were you budget for household, balance checkbooks, fill out a 1040ez and manage a retirement plan. Instead of leasing a new car, buying Starbucks twice a day, get the latest iPhone and wearing your new Beats headphones and of course shopping at Whole Foods.

          • youngorst says:
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            FYI, I am not saying personal responsibility isn’t part of the issue but that is a massive over simplification.

            People were irresponsible and lived above their means in the 1980’s (and the 90’s) too.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Fucking BB there to piss me off yet again?

            You’re the worst stereotype ever for some dumb fuck who buys into the talking points of the guy who is bilking you.

            I might rescind my ban on you because I now think you just don’t have the capacity for independent thought.

            I will stop there, because you didn’t fall for the dumbest of dumbs.

            You describe ECON 101. The problem we have here is that we’ve been talking ECON 102 the whole time.

            not that anyone has noticed since 1968… you wouldn’t believe how many morons in this country think we have a Keynesian economy… except for the good parts like SS and Medicare… those are Reaganomics.

            And yet I keep from being a cynic.

            It’s an intentional pursuit at this point in history.
            Sad.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            But people also use these as a way to spend outside their means.

            WTF man? You’re arguing about home loans by talking about cars in an apartment complex compared to your imagination of what those cars were 15 years ago?

            Do you not see why I think you’re irrational?

            The housing bubble was created by businesses who took out those no-money loans to create inventory. It was the deregulation of the financial markets that created these loans that directly led to people inflating their values so they could skim profit off the top. The people who take out the loans we’re talking about here foreclose at a lesser rate than traditional loans and are being unfairly targeted by people who just don’t have a clue about any of this stuff… or are out to make a quick buck for themselves or their cronies.

        • BlackBandits BlackBandits says:
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          If young people can’t save that much money now, with how great our economy is, and lowest unemployment rate in years and lowest interstate rates in……..well forever. How did they do it 30 years ago when intrest rates were 15-20% and you still needed 20% down?

          • youngorst says:
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            First off, FHA was around 30 years ago and many people got help from it then too but…..

            30 years ago median income was $24,635; the median price of a house was between $90,000 and $110,000 dollars (varies by month)

            Median income in 2014 was $53,013, median house prices were between $280,000 and $300,000 in 2014.

            So income has increased by about 2.15 while house prices have increased by 2.72 to 3.11.

            Income has not kept up with the cost of housing in the last 30 years.

            The cost of renting a home/apartment has also out paced the increase in earnings so if you are paying more for rent it is even harder to save that 20%

            https://www.apartmentlist.com/rentonomics/rent-growth-since-1960/
            http://www.davemanuel.com/median-household-income.php
            http://www.census.gov/const/uspriceann.pdf

            I admit this is oversimplified but its part of the problem. Other issues include lifestyle changes such as cell phones are more expensive than home phones but its hard to live in 2017 without one, internet didn’t exist but its hard to live in 2017 without home internet so you can make a strong argument that essential utility costs have also increased (I believe even electricity, gas, food etc… is more expensive comparatively today but I don’t feel like looking).

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Bah!

            Numbers are irrelevant!

            The earth is still only as old as multiple begets.

  • FORMER AB reader says:
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    I’ve read articles here for YEARS, and never posted. Not my thing. Well, since angry wants to bring politics here it’s clear to me he does NOT know how to run a website/ SPORTS related thread. “So don’t read AB” FUCKING garbage. I even donated back in the day when he needed help running this. Fuck you angry, you just lost a reader.

    • angry angry says:
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      I’ll run it any way I please. If you want typical read the Oregonian or any mainstream outlet. I’m exactly NOT that, which as a long-term reader you should know.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      Another snowflake gets blown up from the ground and lands, yet again, on butthurtville.

      We’ll sing a song of sorrow for you, snowflake. Now go get yourself un-cucked.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      Your post just made me chuckle again while reading it.

      Hypersensitivity seems to be the norm for the Trumpsters.

      Yo mama never told you not to eat the orange snowflakes?

  • FORMER AB reader says:
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    No see that’s the issue. Guess who else is centered around politics, angry? That’s right. You’re no better when you bring this fucking trash in here and pollute such a good stream of sports news. The worst part is… I didn’t even vote trump. I’m just as sorry as the next demo. How could you? What a shame.

    • angry angry says:
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      What? Move on.

    • BlackBandits BlackBandits says:
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      All right…….I have to ask, who else is centered around politics?

      • Jack Jack says:
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        Have you been hacked?

        is centered?

        • BlackBandits BlackBandits says:
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          I’m trying to figure out what he’s talking about. Do you know?

          • Jack Jack says:
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            No fucking idea.

            But you pointing out that purple doesn’t equal turtle isn’t exactly helping.

          • BlackBandits BlackBandits says:
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            Well I don’t think he’s coming back, he’s awfully sore at Angry…….about politics or something.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      Damn!

      Russians do suck my balls.

      How else can we explain your inability to enunciate the English language… on a blog?

  • FORMER AB reader says:
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    Look above. TONS of us hate that you put this thread up. You’re a sorry piece of shit, if you can’t see this thread was a mistake. I hope trump squashes your little soap business. Fuck you. -AB reader out

    • angry angry says:
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      Snores*

      • BlackBandits BlackBandits says:
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        Watch out Angry……..Trumps out to get you and your little soap business too. I heard soap artisains will be the first ones into the re-education camps.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      Russians love to lick my scrotum. Macedonians are too stupid to know better… but they lick my scrotum, nonetheless. Russians tell me so when their mouths are not occupied by my penis.

      One day the lowly places Russians want will also be my mouth slaves.

      Until then… drink up.

  • Beavlover69 says:
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    Keep up the good work Angry. Seems you’re not allowed to talk politics (no matter how loosely related the topic) anywhere at any time no matter who you are. This subject doesn’t interest me at all but seeing the comments makes me laugh so I’ll chalk it up as a win lol

    • angry angry says:
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      Yeah I mean these idiots can just go off topic it’s not like I censor. Just move on and talk about chicks with dicks, porn, recruiting, or anything else.

      • WFO WFO says:
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        Chicks with dicks it is.

        So what is Michelle Obama gonna do with her time now?

        • Beavlover69 says:
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          Naturally the Trump guy is most interested in male genitalia

          • WFO WFO says:
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            Don’t worry, we’ll talk about your dick too.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Did he express worry?

            I totally missed it.

            Why don’t you explain why he should be worried?

          • WFO WFO says:
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            He shouldn’t be, and neither should you. We’ll get around to talking about all of your chick dicks eventually.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            My chick dicks are my business. But I will say they are fine chick dicks. They’re much better than yours.

            Why double down on racism and misogyny now, little man? Your dufus is the new king of an America that is apparently the shittiest place on earth… pending the moron’s swift action to save us. Why do you follow his lead and piss on our country instead of following his lead and saving the country? Are you as confused as him, and you just don’t know where to start?

  • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav says:
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    Hey angry, your gal Marie is on pregame radio now.

    http://tunein.com/radio/Oregon-State-Beaver-Sports-Network-s206510/

  • deplorable me says:
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    If you really want some comedy, go watch the live feed of the Portland protests.

    Swat has been called in, not fucking around anymore. Enjoy your pepper spray sandwiches losers

    http://www.kgw.com/news/politics/10000-people-expected-in-downtown-portland-for-ianuguration-day-protest/389295788

    • BlackBandits BlackBandits says:
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      Wow 10,000 people took a day off of work on Friday to go to downtown portland and protest Trump? That’s a lot of vacation time, I hope their employers don’t get mad………

      • them beavers them beavers says:
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        hey, if you save up vacation time you can do a lot of things. I have over 80 hrs myself. Maybe I should just throw a fit also? No that would not be a good idea; I’m an adult after all.

        • BlackBandits BlackBandits says:
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          Could you imagine the water cooler talk come monday.

          “Hey frank whad’ya do on your 3 day weekend?”

          “Oh you know, sprayed the moss off my driveway and took the kids to the zoo. How about you?”

          “Oh this and that…….got sprayed with pepper spray, shot in the face with rubber bullets and beat with a police batton.”

          “Boy……..that sounds like a riot”

          “You have no idea”

          • them beavers them beavers says:
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            oh I see what you did there “…that sounds like a riot”

            good touch

          • Jack Jack says:
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            We’ll see, buttercup.

            The Black Bloc (which you haven’t heard of until right now) does have a certain population which fetishizes vandalism. But I would put money on the loudest guy in any one of those groups being the biggest criminal… and being the cop i the group.

          • BlackBandits BlackBandits says:
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            What is the black bloc? I’m interested.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            No… you’re not.

            I know you’re not interested because you didn’t already know.

            This is how I also know you just don’t have a clue about any of this stuff.

          • BlackBandits BlackBandits says:
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            So I looked it up because I was intrested, and you like being a cryptic asshole so…..I didnt know they had a name, i thought those were just anarchist assholes who like looting and breaking windows, basically they are Canuck fans just not as distructive. You really think the police are leading these protests? Or leading them to violence? Why? What’s the end game, more overtime, just a chance for a few cops to spray people with pepper spray?

          • Jack Jack says:
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            The anarchists do have the fetish for vandalism. But the police have infiltrated them and do lead them to do criminal things. This has been a reality since J Edgar Hoover enhanced it and made it more than just corporate mercs leading subversive groups to do these things. And the way to justify your ever-expanding bloated budget is create a need for said budget. If you don’t use all those goodies (provided by the military industrial complex) on your citizens, you don’t have a need for those goodies. And that means you don’t need all the money it takes to buy said goodies.

            I’ve studied Black Bloc and the Anarchists. Those with the vandalism fetish are a minority within even the -As. But both are also keenly aware of police staging some of that vandalism for the press they need to show their bloated budgets are necessary. You can probably go to YouTube and find videos where the police are arresting other police dressed as Black Bloc. They just took off their helmets and vests and put on black hoodies and masks. They didn’t even bother to take off their police issued boots or knee pads.

            And how did we get this video? Because the staging was done for the benefit of the media and the consumption of a gullible public.

            I’m not saying that happened yesterday or does all the time. But it happens a lot. The standing rule in both organizations is to distrust the person who is most adamant about breaking the law because that person is likely a cop. That rule came about because it has proven to be (and still is) true a majority of the time.

            Think of it in terms of how Obama tried to track illegal arms in Mexico. Or it’s like finding some lonely and depressed teen online and convincing him that he needs to become a terrorist… and you provide him with the means as well as the idea so you can arrest him. It’s the exact same principle.

  • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav says:
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    Beavs win by 26, match the conf record of UW and Stanford at the top.

    ANGRY ALERT: Marie coming up on post game radio.
    http://tunein.com/radio/Oregon-State-Beaver-Sports-Network-s206510/

    EDIT: BG’s gonna love this, she said she likes “body contact underneath”.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      Well… yeah… you can move off contact then make your finish based on said move.

      Am I missing something here? Or are we just forgetting everything there is about sport so we can say something different than what sport is about?

  • them beavers them beavers says:
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    I’m going to put this out there and it might not be popular. I believe folks need to pay back these loans. Adults, took and spend these monies from the tax payers and a promise was made. A promise not only to the tax payers but to future students so that those loans would still be there.

    One should not break their promises. So these students needs to earn the monies to pay. I mean one can choice to I work while at school and take the minimal amount possible to just make it. Another choice is to take as much money as possible and just build that debt. it seems the later is the choice that folks are taking and this is not a good choice.

    A third, option is for people tp server in one away or another and it pays for school. I’d don’t know call me cold but I don’t feel bad for folks that own so much in collage loans and find their lives harder for it.

    • Beavlover69 says:
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      What did I just read?

      • them beavers them beavers says:
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        I’m not sure myself but you read it….and you can’t ever unread it

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yptXkLglKkA

        you could stay this about what I wrote

        • Jack Jack says:
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          I don’t disagree with you on the principle. But the problem is that the people who were highly subsidized one day decided they wouldn’t pay it forward. So the guy whose daddy paid his business’ rent and had connections at city hall that got him his first (and other) deal and continued to subsidize him in both legal and illegal ways should think that public schools might know better than him.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Or not.

          • them beavers them beavers says:
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            Then those that don’t keep their promise be broken then. Heck, the government could offer up some sort of serve to pay back program. All these highly educated people have to do something.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            You’re not wrong about paying what you’ve promised. But we now have a six time loser who bilked billions from people who were owed money for the work they did. And some of those people had school loans which they defaulted on because Trumpty Dumpty couldn’t be bothered to run a business in a moderately proficient way.

            So who should be allowed to file for bankruptcy? Should the fat cat trust fund brat who likes to clog the courts with wasteful litigations and doesn’t want to pay what he promised to pay in contracts signed by him get to tell the people who defaulted on their contracts because he defaulted on theirs that they should just go pound pavement?

            That’s what we’re celebrating now.

    • youngorst says:
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      Worked 40 hours a week in college, still ended up with $42K in debt. Not complaining and am paying it back but the idea that you can simply work your way through college died decades ago.

      • BlackBandits BlackBandits says:
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        How in debt do you think you would have been if you haven’t had worked?

        • youngorst says:
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          More but again you miss the point.

          When the baby boomers were going to college they could pay their tuition (not everything but tuition) working full time in the summer and the summer only. So they could then pay their other bills working part time during the school year.

          Now, tuition alone takes a full time job for virtually the entire year.

          So when I hear older people tell younger people “just work through college” its a ridiculous comparison. They could, you can’t anymore.

          • youngorst says:
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            Essentially what we are now living in is a generation (baby boomers) that got theirs (cheap college, good pensions, high paying low skilled jobs, etc…) and then decided they were tired of covering the costs of those things they got bitching about the generations they fucked over.

          • angry angry says:
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            That’s on point. And a reason many millennials look to that generation with disdain now.

          • angry angry says:
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            The government didn’t give baby boomers loans, for the most part, and it’s the main reason their college education was so cheap. Loans were mostly an LBJ thing around the mid 60s. That’s the precise time college began to get more expensive. The reason is obvious: if the college knows the govt will cover loans, they will just increase tuition. Like most things govt does, it backfired and they got the opposite intended result. Higher tuition + a watered down higher education that doesn’t mean much in the marketplace anymore.

          • Angry@angry says:
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            Lebron James was giving out loans in the 60’s?

          • BlackBandits BlackBandits says:
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            Youngorst I’m not making a point or anything, I’m just wondering what you think it would have cost you if you didn’t work. Like say 50%, 100% 150% more than your tuition costs over that same time period.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            You’re not wrong on when loans started. You’re wrong about when college tuitions began to rise. Tuition increases tracked CoL until 1981. Since then it outpaced medical costs (which also tracked CoL until 1981), and it really started to get silly once for-profit “schools” were allowed to join the party in 2001… without any of those pesky regulations which kept even the dumb inflations of tuitions from becoming the bubble it is now.

            You’re completely correct that the way these loans are supposed to work are not the way it was intended in 1965 or the way it was regulated until 1981. But the amended versions of that structure make you completely wrong about the government failing to do this as it is intended. It was precisely amended to allow more and more sketchy lenders in 1981. And it was just blown open when private enterprise was allowed to take advantage of a non-regulated market in 2001. Your blame is wholly misplaced based on the facts, which is why your conclusion that the gubmint is dumb always lands in fallacy land.

            Gubmint decided to make college loans a slush fund for their cronies on the private side, just like every other bubble we’ve experienced since the early 80s (following the massive upheaval in rates and inflation after Marquette v. First Omaha).

            So I would say the law is acting precisely as gubmint intends. And Murika just continues to wag their tails for the men who created this intent.

            Good luck with anything being solved by the people who created the problem. If they do anything, it will likely be to have their cronies build more prisons so we can start sending debtors to the pen.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            Heh heh…

            We can also start talking about the bubbles that will be created by these same men when they privatize SS and Medicare and blow those wads just like they did with S&Ls and banks and insurance companies.

            Won’t that be fun?

          • youngorst says:
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            black, had I not worked I wouldn’t have been able to attend at all. I pretty much maxed out need grants and loans just to get through school while working. Maybe another $10K could have been I wouldn’t have even been able to attend school without working.

            Now, I admit I didn’t take high school seriously enough or other grants might have been available but I was guilty of being a dumb teenager which shouldn’t be the end of the line for kids. I was smart enough to spend 2 years in community college to save costs.

            I still ended up having to change my plans because of cost. I wanted to go to Law School, got admitted to UO, UW, Willamette, and UA law schools but simply couldn’t afford it.

            I’m not saying things should be free but I do support greatly reducing the cost in some way.

  • them beavers them beavers says:
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    Oh, I’ll say this too all those that don’t like political talk you did not have to click on the story you can see what the thread was about. I don’t agree with things but it does not mean I should not read or hear about another side of an idea.

    • Jack Jack says:
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      Amen brother!

      I’lll catch up to you soon.

      • Jack Jack says:
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        It wouldn’t let me post something which was nothing.

        I knew this… yet I tried again.

        I think I can get a new meme started about the definition of insanity.

        Or not.

  • them beavers them beavers says:
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6RnirpFaZk&index=5&list=PL5B80F33C27AFBA46

    I figure some other folks post songs sometimes if you don’t like it let me know

    • Jack Jack says:
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      If you’re -A, just say so.

      I’ll talk to you if you drop the pretense. I’ll also be a friend. But you need to let go of the rituals.

      • them beavers them beavers says:
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        There is noting wrong with an -A, but I would have to say that rituals are what gives ones society inclusion so take that for what it is.

        Don’t rituals give one a since of unity?

        Is patriotism such a bad word?

  • Tough Luck Beavs says:
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    Dead zone. Let’s talk about NFL playoffs?

  • angry angry says:
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    I’d still like to hear some theories on what Trump will mean for OSU/colleges.
    Does funding get cut? Etc, and if so, what’s the fallout?

    • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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      Funding will get cut if they keep up the “sanctuary campus” horseshit

      • Jack Jack says:
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        Don’t kid yourself. Funding will be cut regardless of whether or not the school does the federal gubmint’s job for the new lazy fucks taking over said gubmint.

    • them beavers them beavers says:
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      I don’t know much about policy and I’m unsure if the Trump administration can or will do what they says. But, if the US and in turn the State;s economy could get back to that magical idea of industry I’d think that this might lessen the need for everyone to go to collage. Thus, the demand for collage will decrease the cost.

      Sure the immediate impact of collages would be felt but like any other industry collage would adapt maybe there is a larger need for technical schools. This does not discount the need for phosphors and poets but what those folks have to under stand that you will be paid what others think you are worth so…

      Yes, I do think that the budgets for higher education will happen and for some departments this might not be a bad thing. I just hope that in turn research grants and take the place of some funding.

      To me this idea of Collage being a way to enlighten needs to be removed.

      • Jack Jack says:
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        The coutry can go back to being a well-educated, hard working and innovative nation if the country decided to go back to actually investing in education. A competent workforce is only had by investing in people.

        We are now going to move away from that more than we have already, despite anything King Birther has said. King Birther lies… constantly. And those words that aren’t lies are justifications for more lies. King Birther set this tone. King Birther gets no quarter from me or anyone who actually listened to and read the words he has used over the course of his life. And then we get the joy of pointing out how this flim flam man is every bad stereotype you can imagine for a builder. If our courts and business environments were truly equal, he should never be allowed to sell anything until he pays off all the liens he left in his wake.

        Interestingly enough, his upcoming sale of his DC hotel will now have to be done at cost since he’s an elected official. That’s how crooked he is… and how stupid. He thinks he can parse the terms of his lease to skate on actually upholding said terms.

        Remember what we were talking about with people signing contracts and abiding by the terms of those contracts? Yeah… apparently that doesn’t apply to King Birther.

        The letter of the law says he can not own or profit from that property in any way. Now he can’t sell it for a profit, like he could have done yesterday morning.

        I predict he will install some crony from Goldman Sachs as the head of the GSA. And that crony will either ignore the situation or rule in favor of the Grifter in Chief and against the laws of the United States of America… and Kenya, our 50th state.

        And everyone will be just hunky dory with this blatant corruption, because he’s some sort of business genius who has always made his money in this way.

        • BlackBandits BlackBandits says:
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          I thought he turned over his business dealings to his kids, is that not the case?

          • Jack Jack says:
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            You mean all those blank sheets of paper in all those blank folders at that abortion of a press conference?

            What does turning over your business dealings to your kids have to do with not owning something? We’re not talking about the rest of his business interests. Those are fine being run by the tweedles so long as they deal in good faith. And they will finally learn to be good businessmen with the scrutiny they will be under.

            The lease for that specific property says this:

            No member or delegate to Congress, or elected official of the Government of the United States or the Government of the District of Columbia, shall be admitted to any share or part of this Lease, or to any benefit that may arise therefrom.
            https://www.gsa.gov/portal/mediaId/233119/fileName/Part_One_of_Segment_001_of_OPO_Ground_Lease_(2013)_RA.action

            What Clowny the Corrupt is now going to argue is that the word admitted means that he got all his shares before he was POTUS, so everything’s just a neat deal. This is beyond corrupt if it stands. The lease violation itself is no big deal if he just sells the property. If he re-writes the lease (because he’s his own landlord now) or has cronies just ignore it or decide it really is a neat deal… then you can bet the impeachment talk will begin. And his presidency will be crippled from that day forward… not that it isn’t now.

          • WFO WFO says:
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            He should just start a charity foundation then donate the building to himself then write it off his taxes.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            We haven’t even grazed his self-dealing with his charity. I suspect he’ll find a way to bury that investigation as well.

            Damn! It’s good to be a gangster.

        • them beavers them beavers says:
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          Why so negative? With the way the markets seem to be maybe a more blind positivity is needed.

          I tired to have this feeling for the last 8 yrs and look what has then gotten me. Good or bad.

          So I figure if I just have this blind ignorance everything could be ok or even better. As long, as there is not mass mobilization of the military it all can’t be that bad right?

          • Jack Jack says:
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            I want some of what you’re mainlining.

            Market valuation was already too high. Now that it’s in a bubble and excited for the massive federal government spending and tax breaks the GOP always does, you think that bubble is good? If you haven’t taken advantage of the market doubling in the last eight years, I doubt you’re bright enough to take advantage of the bubble then get out before the house of cards all falls down.

            Frankly, I’m liquidating all but some equities which I know will outlast all this same old same old. But I’m going to wait for Trump to gift me an additional 15% when the eventual tax holiday occurs (if not a complete removal of capital gains taxes like idiot boy did). You may think all this is negative. That’s because you’re a moron. A positive person knows all contingencies and smiles at the end of the day.

            Positivity takes work, not faith. Faith is useless. Faith is you waiting for someone else to do something for you. Positivity is knowing how everyone will act and being positioned to have everything work in your favor regardless of how it affects everyone’s feelings.

            There is no such thing as blind positivity. There is blind luck, if you’re into that. But positivity is anything but blind. What you describe is fraud.

  • homefry homefry says:
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    I have discovered today that I no longer lie, I present alternative facts. Two days in, what a shit show.

  • Osbeavs says:
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    More so than what happens to the institution, I am curious what happens to the students.

    Student loan interest rates of 6+ are absurd and even more absurd when it is unsubsidized. I have been in the wrong side of that coin with both Bush and Obama. These interest rates are just too high IMO. It’s worse that the lenders are government backed (essentially no risk) and have almost no responsibility to actually provide service or notice about changes because they know you have to pay regardless. The lenders treat you like a piece of garbage.

    Schools will find a way to get their money, the government can help students by decreasing the interest rate and raising the standard for the lending companies to provide service.

  • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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    I think the pure and holy academia as a whole has become it’s own political entity just like the media, where they are pushing their agenda and doctrine weaved into the education, and at the same time raping our children/families for every dollar they can squeeze out. Then alumni are asked to tithe to the church of university to continue the faith.

    We hire a lot of kids that graduate with social work degrees. Most are at least $50k in debt to our wonderful universities. And most all talk like they have been indoctrinated.

    Sarcasm. But trying to make a point.

    • youngorst says:
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      People only call other indoctrinated when they disagree with their views.

      Virtually everyone that goes into the military, spends years traveling the world, or even just moving to a different part of the country comes out of the experience with a different worldview (rather a lifer or just a few years), college is no different. But its not indoctrination, plenty of people come out of any of those experiences without losing the ability to think critically about their worldview.

      • Jack Jack says:
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        I don’t think it’s a disagreement, except with a relic few. I think if everyone understood each others’ vernaculars they would mostly agree with each other.

        If you haven’t noticed, we’re into the second generation of people who are going to grow up knowing nothing but a bunch of adults arguing with each other about the inane while also having the world attached to the end of their arms. The Texas or Boston school boards don’t get to teach their versions of history without these kids discovering that the culture wars are just the adults’ version of Santa Claus.

        What are teachers going to tell the kids that have the greatest library ever at their fingertips? Are they going to confirm the inane relics and be viewed cynically by a 10 year-old who knows what google is?

        Aaahhh… but net neutrality is only about entities who pay the most to have the best access, you say. It’s not about controlling the information available to those kids anymore, you say. The Texas and Boston school boards aren’t inane relics anymore, you say.

        ?

        I don’t get those who side with the relics. You’re buying the wrong side of history. Hell, half of them don’t even pretend to be in it for anything more than their next buck (or perquisite). And they get no shortage of next bucks from the crowds they incite with their identity politics. And those crowds buy into the Santa Claus that is them voting economically against their own interests to spite whatever spectre they were told was culturally un-American.

        So the next generation gets to watch all this and just laugh at the relics. I’m sorry if laughing at you hurts your delicate little feelings. But if you guys want to blow some shit up before you die off, that’s fine. By that time they’ll need jobs, and right-minded people who actually know how to maximize incomes and revenues will be driving in with front loaders to clean up the destruction and build a new foundation. It’s going to be toughest on those who voted for the relics. But hey, they knew what they were voting for. They needed to stop the spectre of education “indoctrinating” their youth… whatever that is.

    • angry angry says:
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      The people who go to uni to study social work are probably wired a certain way to begin with. e.g. idealistic, emotional, etc. Much different mindset than someone who chooses engineering or math. So these emotional people will go into emotional classes (sociology classes specifically focus on things like poverty, etc) and find emotional professors/mentors. All of it fuels what was already there. Meanwhile, in the math classes everyone is just being a dork and nerding out. No emotions at play and nothing about politics/social standing. So it’s a bit of a chicken and the egg scenario in that I’m not sure the colleges are pushing an agenda. Seems more the kids had already had the seeds sown and the professors gladly nurture them. Echo chamber that just confirms what the student had previously thought is in fact correct. A good professor would challenge every thought the student has and make them justify it.

      • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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        I guess my grand point is that the Universities are responsible to a large degree for putting our kids and America in more and more debt. Most of my hires are USC grads… need I say more about their debt. These days, as in no other time in the history of the U.S., you have to have a degree to make any money above the poverty level. The sad part for these kids is they are not making a whole lot coming out of school and won’t for years. So paying off that debt is very difficult. I guess the system dictates if you want pay you gotta pay.

        • Jack Jack says:
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          People who had their educations subsidized were convinced to act in their self-interest. They found out they could take that money and gamble it away on the stock market instead of ensuring their legacies got what they were gifted by their elders.

          Since then, education has had to spend many resources begging for money. And you can bet that money doesn’t come without some kind of strings attached.

          I get to watch it first hand.

      • Jack Jack says:
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        Sociology doesn’t focus on poverty. It only speaks to the demographics. Poverty happens to be a large segment which has grown over the years, despite the bar being constantly lowered in order to not correctly report how big a demographic it really is.

        But it’s not the focus of a whole school of study.

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