29.Mar.2017 Wayne Tinkle/Program Disaster

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It’s not his fault players got injured, are declaring for the draft, or are considering transferring (maybe this one is his fault; we don’t know the story…my guess would be because Malcolm is coming back), but the bottom line is he has whiffed on too many recruits. Players haven’t developed as expected. There is no plan B in place for any of these issues. It’s fine to take high level recruits who are one and done or two and done once you’re established, but when building a really bad program from the ground up you can’t afford to lose guys to the NBA right when they’re hitting peak development for your team.

Some of the recruits coming in seem like players, so maybe the situation will stabilize, but I’m not convinced Tinkle knows how to manage the numbers or evaluate players. Stacy was one of the worst players I’ve ever seen at the D1 level, for example. I was a big Tinkle supporter, but he is showing his flaws. He’s signed through 2022, so we’re stuck with him. This very well could suck for five years. Give me a reason for optimism. I’m all ears.

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  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    I don’t really know either. His best player so far was a Robinson recruit. I guess the argument can be made that CR would not have know how to use GP-2 so WT is a better X and O’s coach. Dew and Stacy are two of the worst JC transfers I’ve seen. How could any P-12 coaching staff think they could contribute? The Tinkle and Kone injuries are bad luck. We don’t have much choice, but to see what happens next.

    • angry angry says:
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      CR was much worse, but Tinkle is wearing off. That’s the best way to put it. His message seems to be wearing off on the players, and his results are wearing out fans. Some of it isn’t his fault, but nonetheless, that’s the reality. What’s worse is the next few years look bleak. Even if some of the new guys are good, they will need time to develop (then bolt for the NBA).

    • Bill says:
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      CR also had Cameron Oliver signed who turned into a monster at Nevada.

  • homefry homefry says:
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    Program Disaster? Even Sean Spicer would tell you to stop shaking your head.

    I vaguely remember a NCAA berth, what a year ago?

  • ohiobeav says:
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    The biggest problem last year was an unwillingness to play a controllled style and commit to Big G alongside Drew early in the season. They tried to play up tempo in the non-conference and it back-fired, lost confidence early and then injuries swamped the whole team. RS was shockingly bad, and little Tinks is fragile as glass. Malcolm doesn’t calm the seas either. I’d rather have JM another year than see about 30 missed point blank lay-ups again.
    If Drew goes into the draft now, he will likely cash in for 1-2 years and then be out of the league/overseas. No way he is even a top 50 player, yet.
    I’d love to see the whole group together and healthy for a season before they all bail out. If they all come back, they could still be top half of the conference.

    If those rumors of JM transferring are true, Tinkle should go get Michael Porter and his dad as a new assistant. Need a point center after all with no Eubanks or JM

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      I don’t know how Eubanks thinks he is ready for the NBA after leading the P-12 in turnovers? Maybe he has seen how the NBA refs call traveling and thinks he will get away with all of his shuffling? He passed out of the double-team so effectively also and that’s not important in the NBA. The guy is another season away from being drafted and at least two years away from getting minutes in the league. I hope the people giving him advice aren’t being promised any money.

  • Bill says:
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    I think this year was really just a really bad luck year. Couldn’t have predicted Bruce and Duvivier both leaving. Then injuries just made everything worse.

    Next year will be better if the all the guys return. Will have two guards who will contribute. It’ll keep the walk ons off the court.

  • Beavlover69 says:
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    This post is rendered moot if Eubanks and Thompson (likely) return. Woulda been better to wait til those decisions were made before bringing up the topic. Must be a slow week

    • angry angry says:
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      Even if they return, there are problems. JM wants to transfer, team almost finished the worst in history, and Tinkled missed on several key recruits. The latter is the most troubling. How did he think Dew and Stacy were Pac players? I think he’s still scouting to the standards at Montana.

      • Beavlover69 says:
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        Well you wanted a positive spin so here it goes:

        1. The JM transfer “rumor” is actually just a comment on an OLive message board.

        2. Stacy and Dew were terrible, no doubt, but it’s fair to say that Tinkle had no intention of bringing in a JC point guard until Bruce flunked out of school. Stacy was part of a very (very) slim group to pick from so late in the recruiting game. Furthermore, Tinkle probably had no intention of Stacy doing anything but filling out the roster for practice reasons until Duvivier left due to a family issue.

        3. This team is still extremely young. Tinkle inherited a veteran roster when he arrived and had to play catchup in his first recruiting period. He luckily held on to GP2 but even he came in as a Junior from the start. All of this teams best players were freshman or sophomores and it showed. Both physically and mentally.

        4. This years recruiting class is a terrific class on paper with spots still to be filled. Next years class is already headlined by a top 100, 7 foot tall prospect.

        5. Too add on to recruiting, Alfred Hollins recently committed to the team over Florida St and Oregon because he really bonded with and was impressed with the attitude of the players and their desire to continue to build and improve. That to me says more about what’s going on within the program than some commenter on OLive.

        If Eubanks and JM leave, then no doubt this program has a problem on its hands. But like I said earlier, the probable scenario is that everyone comes back and the bench is filled with long athletic wings instead of walk-ons. Until something bad actually happens, I’m not willing to say the program is a disaster

        • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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          Beavergopher approves of this message.

        • mckalk mckalk says:
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          It’s either an excellent best case scenario or we are all Nero’s fiddling away while Rome is burning. The next few months will tell the tale.

        • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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          Again, what he said.
          Ironic that a year ago the same drums pounded the same tune for Anderson in his second year. Give Tinkle Time! CR, like Riley, left a lazy undisciplined team for Tinkle. Give him a chance to create a culture and new identity… that doesn’t happen over night.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            That’s not true. CR was a micro-manager and bugged the hell out of the players… even yelled at them sometimes using big words… *sniff*. A couple revolted, most didn’t. It’s not the best leadership style, but it was effective, given the numbers.

            If you want lazy and undisciplined, look at what CR got when he came to town. And he had a mandate to keep them all and get their grades up, or the program would be sanctioned.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            I think the hardcore in here could see significant improvement with GA’s second year. I think the Colorado game was the only real disappointment for me. With Tinkle, I’m stuck in “show me something after GP-2 mode”. Overcoming injuries and recruiting misses are a head coaches accountability, right? Better get back over .500 next year, WT.

          • angry angry says:
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            Yeah who didn’t see improvement year 2 of GA?

            With Tinkle, I’m stuck in “show me something after GP-2 mode”

            That’s a good way to put it.

        • angry angry says:
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          Okay cool. We’re going to be good!

      • cj cj says:
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        Did we get spoiled when WT came in and, with “no players” and the Beavs indicated to be last in the conference, win? I say, YES.

        If we had had this year first would we still feel the same – I think not. We got spoiled with Tinkle winning when he had no business winning … so we expect it now.

        • angry angry says:
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          To a degree, but why is he losing so badly when he shouldn’t be? Injuries are part of it, but almost all players and coaches say they’re no excuse. I think that’s iffy. It’s an excuse and valid, but to me the big problem with the injuries is it highlighted all the recruiting misses. In a good program properly build, if a guy goes down next man up, and the next man is serviceable.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            I guess that is why college hoops coaches get four or five years to install their system and build depth. Players are coming and going every year so that really shouldn’t be an excuse to go from 19 wins down to 5. I’m not trying to defend CR, but he recruited pretty good players, WT inherited a 16-16 team from CR and got them to 17 wins. CR took over a 6-25 team from Jay John and took them to 18 wins. WT needs to get it back on track next year.

          • cj cj says:
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            I’m thinking that with Stevie being down for six games to start the season then Tres going down before Stevie was ready to come back (they brought him back before he was ready, IMO). Took the heart out of the team, and the fan base. Then the realization that Dew & Tracy were bench players at best had to make the morale even worse. Then the teasing with Tres … thinking he’ll “be back the end of next week”, then that not coming to fruition put another nail in the heart. N’Diaye going down early didn’t help much either although but, personally, I don’t think him being healthy would have made much difference in the won/loss column.

            In my book, losing by 100 is the same as losing by 1 – it’s a loss any way you look at it.

            Bottom line – I think the team quit caring….

        • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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          I think the margin for error is smaller for basketball compared to most other sports like football and baseball. You have 13 scholarships and field 5 guys at a time. Football you can have 105 players and 85 on scholarship and you field 12 at a time (12 offense / 12 defense). Point is a basketball team with injuries, freshmen, guys leaving early can quickly give you a bad year. When you look at these number you also realize how important it is not to whiff on a recruit. I think next year will be a better read on Tinkle and the team.

          • Angry@angry says:
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            12?

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            You didn’t hear that the football team is moving to the CFL West next year? Looking forward to that rivalry with the BC Lions!

          • Jim says:
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            You definitely have a larger margin for error if you can sneak 12 onto the field.

          • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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            My bad… 11

  • BlackBandits BlackBandits says:
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    Neither of them are going anywhere.

  • BlackBeav says:
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    I really hope we can keep everyone around, at least until next year. We have a stellar class coming in as well as T Tinkle coming back. The way I see it, from this point on we could become one of the better PAC 12 teams, or easily the worst in the conference again.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    The Eubanks thing is interesting to me, a couple of days ago we have WT saying that both STj and Eubanks were going to test the waters(like it’s no big deal) and then the next day we have Eubank’s father coming out and saying, “no, Drew intends to go to the NBA this year”.

    I think even the most optimistic here would agree that there is some kind of disconnect going on. Maybe Eubank’s dad is the loose cannon here? Considering WT’s experience as a professional big man, I would think his counsel would be high on the list, yet he was “surprised” by the announcement according to David Eubanks.

    Either Drew or his father (maybe both) seem to be done with the program. That’s not to say that Eubanks may not have any other option but to come back, but I’m not burying my head in the sand about this. It might be time for WT to use one of the remaining schollies on the best JC big man he can find.

    • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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      Sounds like daddy may be delusional. Drew has the athletic ability, but is sorely lacking in many fundamentals. He would be an idiot to come out. Tinkle’s true recruiting skill will be measured by his ability to talk some sense into Drew and his dad and keep him around at least for another year.

      • mckalk mckalk says:
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        Daddy Eubanks seems to be the “x factor” here.

      • orangejulius orangejulius says:
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        According to the o story…
        “It’s nothing with Oregon State or the coaches,” David Eubanks said. “He wants to see what he can do. I told him if you do it, don’t do it just to do it. Do it with the mindset that you’re trying to go on (to the next level).”

        Yeah, daddy seems to be driving the bus.

        • Nicebeaver Nicebeaver says:
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          My impression is that dad and drew don’t want to give off the vibe that theyre “just here to check things out”, because they want NBA talent scouts to take them seriously. I have no problem with that.

          I’d equate it to showing up to a job interview at your dream employer, wearing jeans and a t-shirt, because you know they wont hire you. You wouldn’t want to handicap yourself from the start. At least show the employer you’re trying, and put on a tie. Who knows, they make take a flier on you.

          • mckalk mckalk says:
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            He’s not really being asked to the job interview as far as I can tell unless he’s got some secret admirers. He’s more like the annoying applicant who keeps pestering you and you finally give him a courtesy interview in hopes he goes away.

            I guess if he’s asked to attend that next level tryout the article was talking about than I will change my tune. Like another poster implied……..start checking out Rosetta Stone! NBA scouts will probably take him more seriously when he is actually a game changer in the P-12 and leads his team to some victories.

          • Jack Jack says:
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            This seems the simplest explanation. I’ll buy.

            Besides, Drew does have the athleticism, strength and size to play in the NBA one day. A part of why he can’t really develop fully is that he’s a bull in a china shop on this level. Developing on the next level will eventually make him a better player on that level… eventually. Someone will take him as a flyer and a practice player. He does have that value.

            If he wants more than that for the foreseeable future, then he needs to display some leadership skills and a little more entertainment value. He only gets to be a college player once. Why would he do all that growing only to let the fruit rot?

      • osu2008 says:
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        “Lavar” Eubanks!

    • osu82 says:
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      After reading Eubanks Twitter feed, I’m inclined to agree with you. The comments to me sounded like those from a kid who was done with the program. Maybe he comes back if there’s no interest from an NBA team, but that doesn’t sound like the outcome he is hoping for.

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    I guess I don’t really understand this “testing the waters” stuff in some cases. I mean, can’t Thompson Jr’s dad, who is an Asst.Coach for a Power Five program, give his own son a fairly accurate assessment of his skills (which as anybody can see are nowhere near NBA level)? And would that feedback really be that far off from a NBA scout?

    Why doesn’t every Power 5 starting player get an assessment if it’s such a good thing? I’m old school, you declare, you’re gone. Hope you made the right decision, buddy.

    But then again, if Senior Thompson was part of the assessing team on Stacy and Dew, I can see where Junior is coming from!

  • Bill says:
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    Eubanks has no shot at being drafted this year and is at best a 2nd round pick when he does go pro.

    If he’s not considered a lottery pick now, he won’t ever. With basketball, there’s limited openings every year and always a lot of new talent coming each year.

    The only thing is if that he wants to be a better basketball player, the smart thing to do is to turn pro and be 100% focused on bball. He’ll have to go overseas to be a pro but he could do it.

    I expect him back

  • mckalk mckalk says:
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    Eubanks has competition. Cam Oliver declared for the draft. Much further along than Drew at this stage.

  • osu2008 says:
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    I think it’s time that OSU part ways with Mr. Eubanks. If he doesn’t want to be here then go somewhere else. If he stays then he’s going to be all for himself and that will not help the program nor will he be happy being in college and that will reflect back on his teammates and coaches.

    He’s a decent player, but far too raw and not ready. From the tone of the article yesterday, his dad expected him to redshirt his true freshman year and that they had talked with agents for about a year. He is planning an early exit regardless and it sounds like he only planned to play for two years before bolting.

    I may sound harsh, but I do wish him the best, but I think him and OSU need to move on from each other.

    • BeaverBill BeaverBill says:
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      I think Eubanks, probably because of his dad, is ultra competitive with a little bit of a mean streak in him. I like having him at OSU and hopes he stays.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      I kind of thought as the season progressed he was playing more for himself. I noticed him starting to take more jumpers. Maybe it was from Tinkle’s suggestion, but it also could have been to show the scouts that he was expanding his game. I also thought his recognition and ability to pass out of the double-team was atrocious. When the ball went in to him, he either shot it or turned it over most of the time. I guess his Dad does not have much confidence in WT being able to improve his game next year?

      • osu2008 says:
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        I don’t think his dad cares about the direction of the program or Wayne Tinkle. He just sees the potential dollar signs. If I were Tinkle, I would go and find a couple of big men and a point guard. Actually the kid from NCU that they are looking at has a better game than Eubanks at this point. He just needs to get his grades together.

        Any word on Alexis Yetna?

        • beavlover69 says:
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          It’s not that crazy to think that the perceived chemistry issues last year could have stemmed from Eubanks being a douchebag who had nothing else in mind but trying to improve his draft stock. Losing him would leave a huge talent hole on the frontline but could help to improve the chemistry of the team as a whole. Hopefully Tinkle can sense what may be coming and will devote a ton of energy to selling immediate playing time to a potential replacement. Yetna would certainly be a good start

          • osu2008 says:
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            You just said what I’ve been thinking for the last year. Injuries and poor recruiting hurt, but I think there were other things going on. I will root for McLaughlin regardless because he is a great kid and he’s very humble, but I’d like to see Drew move on ASAP.

        • AKBeaver AKBeaver says:
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          Who is the kid from NCU?

  • osu2008 says:
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    Kylor Kelley. He’s a risk as he flunked out of NCU, but Luke Jackson said in the paper that he had a couple of Pac-12 schools that wanted him but he couldn’t qualify as he had a bad SAT score so he went to NCU instead. He’s 7 ft and is out of Hubbard or Gervais. His brother goes to OSU.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      There was a blurb about him in a recent Portland Tribune. He is interested in the Beavs and is taking classes at Lane CC to improve his academics. I’m thinking the interest from Tinkle has increased with this Eubanks stuff going on.

      • osu2008 says:
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        He was mentioned in this last week’s article by Kerry Eggers and he was also mentioned in the article Eggers did last month on the season. I’m trying to find YouTube video of him. He held his own in the exhibition against Oregon this year and actually flustered Boucher and Bell. Had 10 pts and several blocks against the Ducks. Again, grades are an issue.

  • angry angry says:
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    Oldbeav, I’m headed to San Diego tonight-Saturday, and won’t be around… if you can put up a baseball thread. Thanks, buddy.

    • oneoldbeav oneoldbeav says:
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      Baseball thread scheduled to go up at 9 pm.
      A little time left for basketball, speaking of which, how will Sydney do in the “Marines 3pt” competition??

      EDIT: Syd came in second by 1 point to the gal who went on to tie the winner of the men’s competition.

  • 2017 Football says:
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    Pretty ridiculous for Tinkle to be signed 6 years out after the 2016 season thru 2022. Way too much for a fluke season that required Thompson Jr to make a 1/50 last second three vs UW for us to even make the Dance. Then you add two years so early into the contract just because one outlier mostly prayer shot happens to fall? Seems like bad management to me. Not quite Riley bad but a step on that direction just two years after the lesson of Riley which shouls have taught our ADs a valuable lesson to last 25 or 50 years it was so bad.

    I am not convinced Tinkle is very good. Early fortunate family relations with coaches has been more than 75% of the success so far and that ends with Ethan Thompson. We now also know it is unlikely Ethan stays for more than two years. The better Beaver players are realizing a low draft pick means more to them than another CBI appearance. Scott Barnes better crank up the pressure on results. I trust GA’s process and his ability to build and improve. 98% sure we have already seen the Tinkle high watermark on the other hand. It wasn’t much and GP2 was mostly responsible for it.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      You could also throw last year’s Utah game in there. Who fouls someone taking a 50 footer at the end of a game? Two fluke plays that come along once every decade for a team. STj traveled on that shot against the Huskies, also. You lose those two games and you’re not even getting to the NIT with a 7-11 conference record either.

      And what the hell was that clandestine crap with Stanford all about?

    • Jack Jack says:
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  • whiskey soaked napkins whiskey soaked napkins says:
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    “You lose those two games and you’re not even getting to the NIT with a 7-11 conference record either.”

    I hate to burst your bubble but OSU would’ve been in the NIT last year even with that record.

    • mckalk mckalk says:
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      No burst, they didn’t make his first year at 17-14 and 8-10, so do they make it at 17-12 and 7-11? Maybe? Moot point, thanks to two crazy finishes last year.

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