28.Oct.2011 Oregon State @ Utah (Pre-Game)

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Would you rather have the better quarterback or better coach?

I think the answer is clearly the better QB. Just look around the NFL. Heck, look at the Colts. Sean Mannion is becoming a strength. Not against great teams just yet, but he's a difference maker in these games of equal talent.

A few weeks ago, before the BYU game, I wrote that the Beavers would lose that game because they had a "one step forward, two back" feel to them. Well, now it feels like they're catching on and gelling, and this is where they take two steps forward and one back (i.e. next week vs Stanford).

Kyle Wittingham is a great coach…better than Riley. He'll have Utah ready to go, he'll know how and where to outflank the Beavs, but Mannion's savvy and talent overcome that.

My biggest concern this game is Mike Remmers. He is just brutal. The game should be close, so his boneheaded play could negate some big run/pass plays and marginalize the Beavers' vastly superior offense. Still, at the end of the day, I can't be betting against the left tackle being the difference maker. That is too random. The better QB wins this game.

Beavers 27-24

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  • VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    Hi BN; it’s me again the old and future pending coach. Only four more weeks until I reclaim the job that was undeservedly ripped from me in 1996.

    The bandwagon that enthusiastically burst out of Seattle last Saturday night ground to a halt about 45 minutes out of town when it was determined that the 2011 season is indeed officially in the “wait until next year” category. One of the more mathematically inclined on board, with the help of fingers and toes, demonstrated that 2 + 3 = 5. Five wins (best case) equals “wait until next year” again.

    The die was cast on this season in the consecutive Februarys of 2007-8 when the recruiting classes amounted to a mishmash of fat-boys and unfulfilled projected wishes.

    Since I will be the coach next year I have been analyzing the current roster. I like some of the freshman but I’ve decided to go the JUCO route. I’m not going to bring in a few players to shore up a few weaknesses. I’m going to bring in an entire team. I’ve approached City College of San Francisco and Golden West, out of LA. Good news… they’re interested.

    This brand new team combined with my unstoppable offense and generally acknowledged coaching awesomeness will provide a winning season in less than the standard 28 years. I can do it in 10 or 12!

    The incentives to an entire JC team transferring to OSU are: They get to see Autzen without buying an expensive and hard to get ticket. Flying to road games versus long bus rides. Unlimited access to indiscriminating OSU coeds.

    The negatives are:Their current stadiums are bigger and better than Parker. They play before large enthusiastic crowds. And, of course, it is Corvallis.

    So it’s on to Utah for the game of the weak. Who cares…. 3-9, 4-8 or 5-6, what’s the diff? It’s starting to make the 11-5 Stanford game look like a “bring a can of food for admission” type game.

    Oh well……. O…S….U!! (wave arms like a spaz until tired)

    PS; JackBeav, the last time I checked to ignore means no (zero) responses. I think I counted three after my last post. You can do so much better! Remember.. YOU ARE JACK BEAV!!

    JackBeav official team tool to OSU Football est, 1975 all rights reserved.

  • beaverkman beaverkman says:
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    I am nervous about this game, it sounds like Riley is really worried about their defense and that makes me apprehensive about the game. But I think having back-to-back road games can really bring the team together, nad it seems like we are getting healthy.

    The biggest thing will be the OL versus the big, mature Utah DL. If we can run the ball and open up the passing lanes I think we can move the ball. If we keep improving on the Red Zone offense we might be able to score enough to win.

    I don’t think they will be able to do a lot against our defense. If its a close game I give them the edge as I fear our Special Teams will falter under the pressure if we need a field goal.

    OS 25 Utes 13

    • angry angry says:
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      I’m nervous about it too. Well, as nervous as a fan can be when their team has two wins…

      The game has a weird feel to it…I feel like on the road, Beavs will come out flat and underwhelm. It has that feel to it. But, I am going with Mannion being the difference. Tough call.

      • WhatdoIknow says:
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        A nineteen y/o freshman is a more significant asset to the football program than our head coach? I disagree.

        • oneoldbeav says:
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          As I understand it, the point is that in this game Utah has the better coach and the Beavs the better QB. Angry is coming down on the better QB side…for this game. Doesn’t mean Mannion is a more significant asset to the program than Riley.

          • angry angry says:
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            Correct. Utah has a better coach, but the talent on the field is pretty equal. Again, look at the Colts. QB is a big deal, and Utah doesn’t have one. No coach can overcome that. Therefore, IMO, for this specific game the Beavs’ advantage at QB should be enough to win it.

          • mckalk says:
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            I’m not sure either. I think some Beav fans have a false sense of security with the wins over Arizona and WSU. Those were bad defenses folks. To me this is a real test as to whether the team has really made progress. I think the BYU game was a fail. Now’s a chance to garner something from a disappointing season.

        • angry angry says:
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          Fans who have high expectations want Riley to leave. Stop pretending he’s a great asset.

  • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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    Not nervous about this one at all. Utah doesn’t really have an offense. The Beavers I think may be a little flat offensively to start but I don’t think Utah makes them pay for it. I see Utah’s offense being a struggles. Their QB Hays is not a FBS caliber QB and will struggle. The Utes have also struggled to protect Hays. That’s great for the Beavers with the way Crichton and Wynn get after the QB. Really liked what I saw from Taylor Henry last week, he should make an impact when they bring him in to rush the QB on third down.

    I think the Beavers get it rolling offensively in the second half and pull away, thanks to Mannion’s arm.

  • oneoldbeav says:
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    In general I’d rather have the better coach, to go back to the recent chess analogy, the coach sorta controls all the pieces while the QB doesn’t.

    As for this weeks game my biggest concerns are in the trenches on both sides of the ball. To wit: Remmers and Frahm. Remmers is up against Derrick Shelby, a challenge for any O lineman.

    Cliff calls for Frahm to play well, says he is due for a big game. I agree he sure is due. Forcing Utah into a passing game will be hard to do if Frahm can’t consistently clog things up.

    Another concern is getting the procedural penalties under control. Problems there aren’t entirely on the coaches with this young team…..of course the “young” thing goes back to the coaches.

    I’ll go along with the 27-24 Beavs prediction, the penalty situation will be better and we’ll see the run game relying on more than just Agnew.

    • JackBeav says:
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      That depends. Luck is controlling all the pieces at Stanford. That’s why they’re running a lot more this year. Luck has his reads in before he calls the play in the huddle. That dude is certainly a dude.

      When it comes to coaches vs. QB, I’ll wait to see what happens with the play calling. If our offense comes out and takes shots like it did last week, then we’ll know they’re putting it in Mannion’s hands also. But it only goes so far. All the morons who thought it was the run that opened up the pass simply ignored that first play from scrimmage. I’m supposing those same people thought our o-line had a good game as well. Neither was true. Mannion threw the D out of the box, and Langsdorf countered with runs when that happened. Yes, there was balance. But the pass set up the run, not the other way around.

      So long as Johnson is at C, they need to stop running that C pull. It loses yards unless Agnew cuts it back almost immediately. And it drives me crazy watching Johnson wade into the flats looking like he’s trying to avoid contact.

      • oneoldbeav says:
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        Luck doesn’t have much influence on pieces like: special teams, D, recruiting, and the like. But, you’re right, he sure does a terrific job with the O.

        • JackBeav says:
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          I would contend that he has influence over the first two by keeping them off the field or making their jobs easy. And the third comes naturally… except that he won’t be there next year.

          Wouldn’t it be awesome if the Suck for Luck campaign went one full season and Luck announced he was staying in school?

      • Beavergopher Beavergopher says:
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        I agree, they passed to set up the run and the first play set the tone of the game. More please. I would like to see them run some of the Big 5 plays the Packers do with all wideouts. We have some serious talent at receiver…………use them.

  • Beaver Byte says:
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    See this one pretty close to how Angry does. I think we will have just enough production and get the offensive and defensive contributions we need to come out ahead. I think a key to a Beaver win is Agnew getting 90 or more yards rushing which will require OSU staying patient with the run game and giving Agnew plenty of looks. That will help us with needed balance and lowering the likelihood of turnovers which will be critical for the Beavers to earn back to back W’s.

    OSU 31, Utah 27

    OSU @ Utah Preview:
    http://beaverbyte.com

  • WhatdoIknow says:
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    Remmers may be having a rough senior year but coaches put him at the all important blind side edge QB protector, presumably the best of the two tackles. Didn’t he play right tackle for 3 years before this? Any one proposing a mid-season swap of tackles if that would be an upgrade?

    • JackBeav says:
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      Senior year?!?!!?

      Did you ever watch him run block in the past? Oy vey!

    • JackBeav says:
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      And a gimpy Philipp was not nearly as bad last year with better DE’s coming at him.

    • HopefulBeav says:
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      Remmers is just one of those flops that looked to have a lot potential early on (starting as a freshman on the o-line) but for whatever reason never developed into anything better than his freshman year. Pretty inconvenient since the line play is what has absolutely killed us the last two years.

  • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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    I agree with Angry that the Beavs have a big advantage tomorrow in the QB department. Mannion is fast becoming a superior D1 QB. The Utes, in contrast, don’t have a game-ready D1 QB on their roster.

    Lacking a competent QB, the Utah offense probably won’t mount many long drives against OSU. The Utes are more likely to score their points off turnovers or from special teams play that provides the anemic Utah offense with great field position.

    It follows that field position will be key for OSU tomorrow. Mannion and Agnew need to avoid turnovers, especially inside OSU’s own 40 yard line. Hekker needs to stay focused and avoid shanks. OSU kick coverage needs to be solid. If the Beavs take care of the ball and win the field position battle, Utah will be hard pressed to score, and OSU should win going away.

    • angry angry says:
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      Agree 100% regarding field position, turnovers, and shanks. All true and all possible issues.

      • mckalk says:
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        “Beaver irony” would be if Reggie Dunn takes a kick off to the house. I will throw up in my mouth if that happens…but anything is possible with Luck O’ the Beavers!

  • Beaver Byte says:
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    Offtopic: OSU Women’s Soccer beating #1 Stanford in Corvallis at halftime 1-0 in front of a standing room only crowd in pouring down rain. Would be great for Oregon St. to beat the nation’s #1 ranked team. 🙂

  • ObjCritic says:
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    They better give Remmers TE help, he’s going to be overmatched.

    The playcalling can’t go conservative again, that plays into Utah’s hands.

    I’d like to see somethings to try and soften up the middle – a few shovel passes, a quick handoff to a Agnew at fullback a la Quizz against USC, screens, middle screens to TE…then hit them outside with Rodgers, Wheaton, et al.

    Utah doesn’t have the offense to consistently threaten a mediocre beaver D, so Lanfsdork/Riley need to call a good game.

    • JackBeav says:
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      We haven’t seen a shovel pass since long before the fly sweep. But I expect a load of fly sweeps coming at Utah tomorrow. If you can’t take it at them full on, flank ’em.

  • ObjCritic says:
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    Is this Utah’s best shot at a Pac-12 victory?

  • JackBeav says:
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    OT…
    Shabazz Muhammad has visited aTm and Kentucky in the last month. And this weekend he’s visiting USC.

    I am absolutely, positively, utterly, wholly, all in, in spades, 100% sure and will even pinky swear… there is no pay-for-play going on with this kid.

  • osbeavs says:
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    I believe the key is jumping out to an early lead and forcing Utah to throw. I believe that they are a lot like ucla in their need to run the ball. If you force either team to play from behind they will lose but can beat you with defense and a pounding run game with a lead. Our run defense is poor and I don’t like the idea of us chasing them all day. I think we win going away if we get an early lead, if we allow them to run and stay in it we will lose. A OSU win will likely include 2 or 3 ints.

  • JackBeav says:
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    I think it was matt b…
    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/utes/52804944-89/utes-win-pac-utah.html.csp

    Scroll down to the “Pac12” comment. It sounds SOOOO familiar. I guess agents need to make their money somehow.

    • JackBeav says:
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      Sorry, I didn’t make that clear. This would be a Chris Petersen plug if ever I saw one. I don’t know if it was done on behalf of the university (I use that term loosely), or if it was done on behalf of the coach. But it is a plug nonetheless.

      Now that I have referenced Boise and Chris Petersen in the same post, the bots will bring these people to this comment. Will they respond? My guess is not now. But they will respond.

  • OneEyedKing says:
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    Why does everyone think Utah will score 20+? They have no QB, and our defense has looked pretty solid.

    And from what I’ve read(haven’t seen Utah play) their secondary is pretty terribad. So Mannion should be able to pick them apart.

    Utah’s run defense is being hyped, but look deeper: Polk shredded them(180+), BYU’s RB had a 4.4 average, USC’s Tyler had a 100+game…I just don’t see a reason to fear them. Every good back they’ve played has been at least solid, and Polk crushed them. Their stats are just padded by terrible teams, or big leads so that the opponent couldn’t run. As such, I expect Agnew to put in a workmanlike 20-25 carries for 100 yards and a score.

    Also, the Colts don’t have a QB or a coach. Caldwell is terrible. How Peyton carried that team is beyond me.

    • OneEyedKing says:
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      Also, a minor detail…Utah is 0-4 vs the Pac12 this year, including losing to Cal, who are not good. Utah has beaten Montana St., BYU, and Pitt this year. Not impressive, and now they have no QB.

      I just don’t see how Utah is favored by 3; I’d pick this as an 8+ point victory for us, as long as Riley doesn’t play Mr. Nice Guy and let them close the gap in the 4th, as is his habit.

      Angry, start up a thread for our All-Time OSU Team!!! You can even give us the nominees if you want.

      • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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        This type of suggestion is what the forum is for, so go start it up there. I didn’t start following the program until 99′ so I can’t help add much beyond the obvious ones.

    • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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      Yeah, I felt the Beavers would win 34-13. No way Utah scores 20 with that offense. The Beavers score just say 27 but they should win by double digits. The Beaver are better. The only way I see Utah winning this game is if the Beavers turn it over 3+ times. If Agnew holds onto the ball the Beavers will be fine. I don’t see Mannion making many mistakes to be honest.

      • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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        Today’s game is like a battle between two ships where the artillery of Ship A has longer range than the artillery of Ship B. The strategy for Ship A is obvious and deadly — stay beyond the range of Ship B’s artillery and fire away at Ship with impunity until Ship B sustains too many hits to stay afloat.

        Utah is Ship B. Utah’s offense will not be able to score much — or at all — against OSU so long as the Utes are forced to start each drive 70+ yards from OSU’s end zone. Without a competent QB or an overpowering running game, Utah simply will not be able to convert enough opportunities to sustain a drive of that length.

        Making the Utes start drives deep in their own territory — while avoiding turnovers or long kick returns — practically guarantees success for the Beavs today, or so it seems to me.

        • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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          So what happened to the battle of the trenches theory from last week? Don’t get me wrong, I like this take, but it seems like every other game you’ve said was won or lost by whichever team had the better line.

          • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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            In today’s game, the Beavs face a D1 team that lacks a D1-level QB. That’s unusual, and it’s a potentially fatal defect.

            It remains true that most football games are won and lost in the trenches. But the lack of a competent QB means that Utah comes into this game as a hobbled, wounded animal. If the Beavs take proper advantage of this situation, it won’t be a fair fight, and OSU will be able to win today’s game without dominating the line of scrimmage.

      • angry angry says:
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        Utah has a bad offense, but the Beavers defense is bad, too. Sure, the DEs have come on of late, but they’ll give Utah some points.

        • OneEyedKing says:
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          I think it’s a bit overly-nonspecific to say, “The defense is bad.” There are certain aspects that are bad; our safeties haven’t been good, Reynolds gets burned a bit too much, and I’m curious to see our run defense without Masaniai. But our DEs have been awesome, our linebackers are greatly improved(even baddies from last year like RR and Wilson looked better last game), our team speed is pretty good, and Poyer is turning into a superstud.

          There are pluses and minuses.

          As long as Banker realizes that Utah’s only route to victory is pounding the ball 30 times on us and compensates, this is an easy win. But will Banker realize that?

    • oneoldbeav says:
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      I’d rather see Agnew carry no more than 18-20 times and share the running with others. Hate to see Langs ride his best horse to death, especially today. Spice up the run game with York, Stevenson, Wheaton, Jenkins and Ward.

      • silverstream055 silverstream055 says:
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        Agreed. I’d also add JRod and Cooks to the mix (and would sprinkle in both fly sweeps and bubble screens to keep the defense guessing, and to make the defense defend sideline-to-sideline).

      • osbeavs says:
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        I would love to see another PA Wheel route by York again, I loved it!

  • Warren says:
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    Keith McGill is also out for the Utes today.

  • osbeavs says:
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    OT: I found a blog that accounts for third tier media rights money for a number of schools. Interestingly enough, OSU made over 6 million and outpaced everyone in the pac-10 comfortably. The media package is from 2009-2010, can anyone explain this? We made a significant chunk of change and seem to be doing something that our competitors weren’t. I have said some unkind things about Bobby D of recent but if this is something that is still occuring and can be attributed to him then I was clearly wrong.

  • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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    Watching Oregon vs WSU. Such a mistake filled game so far. Just a matter of time before oregon starts rolling but so far they look like garbage.

    • Afghanbeav Afghanbeav says:
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      I was about to post the same thing. Their D looks bad. They are faster than average, but just are not making plays. Does their D always look bad?

  • angry angry says:
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    It looks like Comcast/CA residents won’t see this game. I can’t find it listed anywhere. Anyone have any ideas or a feed?

    • Afghanbeav Afghanbeav says:
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      The Beavers game is on Root Sports in my area, what is your equivalent to that?

      • angry angry says:
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        Is Root the same as Fox College Sports Pacific? That channel shows ASU/CO.
        Damn.

        • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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          Up here the beavs game is right after the duck game. Same channel.

          My god, if WSU had any kind of red zone offense today they’d be up by 2 or 3 touchdowns. Instead, they get a field goal, bad punt, and 2 turnovers. They’re methodically beating oregon in terms of total offense and time of possession.

          • angry angry says:
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            I get Cal/UCLA.

            Sucks.

          • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
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            Add another failed redzone atempt with a missed field goal. They should be burying oregon right now feeling good going into halftime.

  • angry angry says:
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    This WSU game shows the importance of a QB. They have guys open all over, and the QB can’t get them the ball. Ducks luck out again with the Tuel injury…

    • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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      Oregon looks like garbage. They do catch numerous breaks. The Beavers get Tuel and then he gets hurt and misses this game. Oregon not the least bit impressive though. If they face a healthy Tuel they’re losing this game.

      • angry angry says:
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        I agree. They look beatable. Anyone left on their schedule can beat them…even the Beavs. I can see Mannion dissecting these guys…especially since he’ll have more experience by then.

        • BeaverBeliever21 says:
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          Mannion will torch that mediocre secondary.

          What irritates me is Oregon always gets the breaks from the zebras. I never seen them called for pass interference, late hit personal fouls, holding. Almost a team makes a big play against them it is called back for a flag, when they make a play it is never called back even if there is a blatant hold. It is completely the opposite for the Beavers. They can never catch a break from the officials.

          Also, how many times does Oregon catch a break when a kicker missing a chip shot. Today WSU’s kicker hadn’t missed all year and he misses a 25 yard FG? Their luck is extraordinary.

          WSU just got a break on that pick 6 but that rarely happens against Oregon.

          • angry angry says:
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            I’m not sure if that’s true, or it just seems that way since we’re Beav fans. I’d like to see some numbers on penalties called on the Ducks vs their opponents.

          • FrozenBeaver says:
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            Ok, I’ll bite. These are what’s on espn.com for the year:

            UO Opp
            at LSU 12-95 5-47
            vs Nev 3-25 8-55
            vs MsSt 9-81 3-24
            at Ariz 5-42 9-91
            vs Cal 11-91 7-60
            vs ASU 7-75 8-95
            at Col 4-50 10-86

            avg 7.3-65.6 7.1-65.4

            avg home 7.5-68 6.5-58.5
            avg away 7-62.3 8-74.7

            avg conf 6.8-64.5 8.5-83
            avg non 8-67 5.3-42

            Yes, I counted LSU as an away game. They were practically in Louisiana.
            Looks pretty even until you get into conference play, but then again, look at who they’ve played in conf.

          • osbeavs says:
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            I am curious to see what our numbers are if you have them? I feel like we are getting hammered with calls this year. In particular, I was yelling and cussing at the TV against WSU. There were some really blatantly poor calls that game. Also, I wish we could quantify how many penalties our opponents get away with (e.g. the obvious false start by the TE of WSU on their 4th and 1 conversion).

          • FrozenBeaver says:
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            I’ll look them up to in a bit. But aren’t we the most penalized team in the league? (Thanks Remmers!) So i have an idea what those numbers are going to be like

            As for obvious non-calls, I don’t know how you’d quantify that. You’d need to watch all the games over again and look for non-calls on both sides. I can’t recall any non-calls that should have been against us, but that’s because I’m a Beaver fan.

  • angry angry says:
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    Nice to see Chip Kelly’s greed burn him.

  • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

    Not that anybody probably cares, but Portland State is leading Eastern Washington on the road at halftime.

    • osbeavs says:
      VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
      Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

      Nice, I have been following them a little bit. I have been hoping that they do well.

      • NCAA_viOlation NCAA_viOlation says:
        VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
        Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)

        All the more impressive since psu lost their tailback Cory McCaffrey for the season. He was leading the nation in scoring and 2nd in rushing yards when he got injured the other week.

  • osubaby osubaby says:
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    Awesome!!!

    EWU is pretty good, they almost beat UW.

  • BeaverBeliever21 says:
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
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    Oregon pulling away now. WSU D likely getting tired and were playing over their head for a while. Oregon very fortunate to be playing WSU.

  • Warren says:
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

    Fuck, there’s like a blizzard her win Massachusetts and I’ll probably lose power soon. I signed up for text alerts from oregonlive so i can at least keep up with the scores. Anyone know any other free text alert places for Beav score/updates?

    • mckalk says:
      VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
      Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

      I had to pause on the Army/Fordham game because one of my kids was impressed by how much snow was coming down.

  • tim says:
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

    ESPN iphone app

  • tim says:
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

    I you guys want to post your pics- go to gravatar and sign up.

  • SanDiegoBeav says:
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

    Anyone have a link to a stream? There was one last week and it worked great.

  • OneEyedKing says:
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

    Remmers wastes no time.

  • WFO WFO says:
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

    Remmers. That didn’t take long.

  • OneEyedKing says:
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

    Great find by Mannion there.

  • OneEyedKing says:
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

    Learn to catch, Agnew. Why wasn’t Jenkins in?

  • OneEyedKing says:
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

    Was that Reynolds that got torched again?

  • OneEyedKing says:
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

    Great D, and Mannion didn’t lead him enough.

  • Mud&Sticks Mud&Sticks says:
    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

    So far they’re beating the Beavs in the trenches

  • beavis24 says:
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

    I’m disgraced by our showing. Vote with your checkbook this next year. When OSU representatives call for donations, refuse until the product on the field improves. As a donor to OSU for over 35 years I’m gonna take a pause this next year, and tell the rep to forward my refusal to BDC.

  • angry angry says:
    VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

    It looks like you want the better coach in all games…even if the other team doesn’t have a D1 QB. My bad. I’m embarrassed by this pick and take. Ironically, I had my best week all year in my pick ’em league, getting 9 of 10. Strange.

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