I mentioned I saved the Dee Andros SI article in the prior thread. They had deleted it from their site, but turns out it wound up in their “vault”. If you want to read the entire article, it’s here.
Many old-timers on Blitz and other sites claimed that Andros got labeled a “racist” because of this, and it lead to the 28 year losing streak because no African Americans wanted to play for OSU. Any old-timers here who can confirm or deny that? I also heard the 28 years was due to the AD not caring about facilities or sports, in general. Maybe a mix of the two and other things?
Either way, I haven’t had a “historical” article up in some time. Seems a good time to revisit this one. Keep it at least on the topic of sports. General thread coming next week.
Previous thread someone was questioning the quote of “Oregon State known as a racist school”. My years of 81-83 I can attest to more than a few comments disparaging the quality of athletes we had due to their “attitudes” and where they were from.
I roomed with football players most of my time in Corvallis, and overall the brotherhood was fairly strong, but some on the team I doubt would be saying “Black Lives Matter” this month.
That “JustJay” comment? I ignored it because he’s clearly ignorant of this chapter.
Whether it’s real or not is for people who were there and lived through it. From what I have read (on other forums over many years) perception of OSU during that dark era was it was backwoods, country, racist. You seem to confirm that. I’d rather have first hand accounts like yours than people like JustJay laughing about it or name calling because the reality bites.
Feel free to elaborate on that “attitudes” quote…or anything else. Also, in your opinion, did this perception have anything to do with the 28 year losing streak? Also, did you read the SI article? Any thoughts on it?
on the clock, right now-will follow-up
Apparently the masses have voted, and they don’t want to hear more…is there an inference there?
I’d say Oregon State has traditionally been “old school” in comparison to Eugene. You still hear coded racism from alums of a certain age. (The type that bring up the Giant Killers at every opportunity. It should be noted that OSU hoops was good in the ’70s and were probably more diverse than they are now. But even after Andros was gone, they still had ADs who still thought it was the ’60s. Witness the tenure of Pettibone. I give a lot of credit to Paul Risser for hiring Mitch Barnhardt and bringing the programs into the modern era. I don’t think its a coincidence that the school’s enrollment has doubled and is more diverse than ever in the last 20 years.
Andros was the coach for the first 5 years of the 28 year losing season. Then he was AD until 1985. So he oversaw half of the losing streak.
That’s an observation. But what is your conclusion?
Andros is mostly responsible for the 28 losing streak. Is it due to racism? Maybe. Any evidence would be circumstantial now.
But the perception that Corvallis is a racist place does still persist. Is it? Overtly no. Is there institutional racism? Yes. OSU has worked to bring down institutional racism but that is always met with them being labeled as pc police.
“My years of 81-83 I can attest to more than a few comments disparaging the quality of athletes we had due to their “attitudes” and where they were from” This quote still rang true in my years which was much much later.
Thanks. An obvious follow up would be to figure out if this is unique to OSU or not. Being more rural than other Pac schools, you’d assume yes, but who knows. I’d have to ask angryTrojans, angryHuskies et al authors. That SI article mentions Jim Owens at Washington having similar issues, so it might have been an era thing. My grandmother was pretty racist, and she always said it was just how things were when you immigrated to the East coast (from Italy) in the 1920s…people stayed to their groups because they were all seeking a better life and didn’t want to share resources/didn’t trust outside their clan. She wasn’t a bad person. She was generous and great. But she freely admitted it was something with her era and the things going on in that era. Caring about others or trusting they had your interests in mind was viewed as a luxury, basically, and it created a negative feedback loop.
I would say it’s more due to the history of the state of Oregon that still persists today.
Oregon was built on a foundation to explicitly exclude blacks from the state.
Right now African Americans make up an estimated 2.2 percent of the population with most in Portland. State is nearly 87 percent white.
For a lot of students from Oregon, they don’t grow up with a lot of African American classmates and most of their perceptions of African Americans are via sports, tv, and media. So when they meet them in college, they have biases built in. Most haven’t dealt with overt racism in their life.
This isn’t unique to OSU, could easily be applied to UO, and other schools.
Speaking of race, my lady is on a video call right now with the corporate office. Listening in…it’s BRUTAL. They’re giving a self-righteous lecture on what race means to them in the corporate world, including “you can be color brave!” and “acknowledging the majority race” (whatever that means? I guess that white rights matter in the office, too?). I mean of course, but that is brutal to listen to. Nobody seems to know how to gingerly talk about these issues. Race is pretty simple: ignore the color. Shitheads exist in all colors, and so do great people. Jeez. How is that so difficult. My lady just sent me a message on chat “This is quite the show”…haha. Turns out it’s a TED talk they’re playing and making everyone listen to over Zoom. She just said, “This is straight up a The Office episode.” So funny.
Her boss came on after the TED talk ended and started crying. This is incredible.
Her bosses actions sound like moral vanity to me not thoughtful efforts to encourage employees to treat everyone prissier ally and w/respect.
“Look at me!!! I CARE so much about this!!!”
Exactly. It was hilarious to listen in on.
Did Prison Mike make an appearance?
Haven’t had a chance to hear the audio but I got to wonder how different (if at all) it would be if Rocco were a star player?
He’d be gone. Timing is everything and right now, nothing will be tolerated.
Couldn’t be much more incriminating. I think any player would be gone given the message Smith sent.
I’ve always held a belief that a smallish school with limited resources will see the success of football and men’s basketball ebb and flow in opposite directions. OSU was very basketball-centric in the 70s, 80s and early 90s. Booster money and attention flowed in that direction, limiting resources for the football program.
When basketball took a downturn in the mid-late 90s, the pendulum swung back towards football and Erickson’s hiring lit the match. Basketball suffered for much of the Riley era and is still probably second (or third or fourth, depending on who you ask) on Beaver fans’ totem pole of sports.
Very few schools can be successful at both sports at the same time for very long. Right now (off the top of my head):
Ohio State
Florida
Michigan State
Oklahoma
Wisconsin
Oregon (ugh)
My nephew Rocco is NOT racist you assholes! Say what you will, we have ALL left voicemails like this. The problem is people like you trying to ruin a kid’s life for doing the same things you all do! It’s hypocrisy at the highest level! We are appealing the tone deaf coaches decision and making a donation and GUARANTEE he will be back with the team!
This is the kind of troll post nobody was crying out for.
I have quite certainly NEVER left a voicemail like that. Even if that voicemail reflected my sentiments, I would never be dumb enough to put them on social media.
It’s not a voicemail and he didn’t put it on social media.
Seems to me our brother from Big Sky was (correctly) responding to the original statement that, “…we have ALL left voicemails like this.
Brother? You mean sister.
I don’t think yelling at people and throwing money around is the way to change any minds. Smith would be a chump to walk that decision back in the current climate. You would end up with ridiculous amounts of strife on campus, the team and in recruiting. He made the right choice, i advise using your resources to help Rocco with opportunities elsewhere.
Smith would be a punk to put that kid back on the roster. Over money? Pfft. Not enough money to lose the whole team. Have you bothered reading what fellow players think of rockhead’s words or his weak ‘apology’?
Any coach would’ve gotten rid of that toxic shit if this was 20 years ago.
In no way am I a racist or condone what he’s done. But that being said I kind of feel bad for the kid. I don’t think the kids a racist. We don’t know the context of the conversation like someone above said it was edited by the person on the other line. It almost seems like the younger kid trying to impress older or the cool kids by making an ass out of himself to make them laugh. Were the other kids baiting him? Was it a friend of him that betrayed him? This kid has to pay a bigger price because he’s a student athlete and is in the spotlight so he is held to a higher standard. Smith did the right thing. This will follow this kid for awhile. It kind of reminds me of the south park episode where randy becomes the “N” word guy. They put celebrities in it with racial foul ups like Kramer from Seinfeld. It’s pretty funny.
I have friend who people think are racist because they say stupid shit, but really they’re just making fun of racial stereotypes. It’s a fine line. I didn’t listen to what this Rocco guy said (hell, I didn’t even know he was on the team), but it’s possible it was something like that. My friends aren’t public figures so nobody gives a shit. This guy is, so he has to tread lighter with riffing on stereotypes, if that’s what he was doing.
This happened when he was 15 so he wasn’t even a public figure yet. He was doing what your friends do. He was playing the role of an old racist southern redneck and poking fun.
Gotcha. What my friends do is poke fun at racists, yeah. So basically this guy was poking fun at racists and got charged with being a racist. And instead of explaining that, he apologized? Making fun of racists should require no apology.
I can’t find the audio to listen to it. But that’s what it sounds like happened.
This was an interesting reply to Rocco’s apology typed out on an iphone ‘notes’:
‘I’ve watched you grow up and seen what you’ve chosen to align yourself with time & time again. In NO WAY am I surprised. I hope you have a better apology for “everyone of color” in your life-especially the ones you’re supposed to be supporting on and off the field.’
Original poster deleted their tweet. Here’s a censored version.
https://youtu.be/GBzwdPB_omk
Hm. He sounds pretty serious…deadpan delivery and no laughing or subtly that it’s a joke.
Definitely a different delivery and vibe from my friends when they mock a stereotype.
Aren’t there laws around recording phone conversations? Pretty sure in Oregon you need to notify somebody if they’re being recorded, and in addition to that I don’t know that a 15 year old can give consent to be recorded anyway.
So I’m curious if news media playing this recording on the air are opening themselves up to any legal ramifications? I also don’t think OSU as a school has any legal justification to throw the kid out of school, so they probably won’t. They already have openly racist students on campus who aren’t shy about their bigotry and the school has no way to kick them out. There’s one guy in particular who looks like Waldo from the Where’s Waldo books who has been in the news in recent years. I’ll see if i can find an article about him.
Anyway, not defending the kid. Just curious how this all ends up playing out
I think the law about recording only becomes relevant when it comes to court or incriminating evidence but I could be wrong. It would be interesting if he was able to sue that kid who recorded it.
Oregon only requires consent of one person on a phone call.
Consent of one party, but notification to all parties involved still needs to be given
Pretty sure when it’s over social media you have already given consent via terms and conditions. Im not going to hunt down snap chats 3 year old T&C and read it all though.
There were other reasons too. My late grandpa played under both Tommy Prothro and Dee Andros and claimed that Andros was a shithead to his players, in general.
My Dad did too. Pumpkin was an asshole.
Any elaboration?
He has endless stories of getting screamed at for no reason, pushing players around, freaked ng out about the I formation. One dude had his jock strap break and Dee wouldn’t let him go to the locker room. Circled up the team and made the guy strip and try to tie the elastic together on the field. Once he had his pants around his feet and was trying to tie it up he did a fumble drill for the whole team.
Petty shit too like if you came out of the tunnel and got even 1 step ahead of him the next day you were doing the Dee Andros mile at full speed.
So kinda like this guy?
Andros also didn’t really care about his players’ interest when it came to careers outside of football, or doing well in school.
Also from what my grandpa said, Andros liked to recruit kids from big cities, whereas Prothro recruited kids (like my grandpa) from rural farming communities. It contributed to a lack of focus both when it came to academics and performance on the field. This, along with the shifting demographics of America’s urban and rural communities during the 60’s and 70’s, is the probably the main reason why Oregon State football fell so abruptly and so quickly.
Then your grandpa play football with my dad. My dad only played for Prothro, but graduated the same year he left for ucla. Dad said the same thing about Andros, a major asshole who tried shitting on a pac-8 champion rosebowl team because he couldn’t live up to that expectation.
Why are these comments getting thumbed down?
This is all fascinating insight.
If anyone is doubting Smith made the right choice check out the players response on Twitter. Overwhelming support and respect for their coach.
At the top of the the thread Angry asked for an “old timers” perspective on Andros/OSU/Race. I was in school and that time and remember the events very clearly. Andros’s demise began in the spring of 1969 when he threatened to dismiss, African American. sophomore, linebacker Fred Milton from the team for growing a goatee. Milton refused and it was off to the races. TV sports commentators, editorial writers, everyone in the state watched as the “controversy” plays out over a few weeks.
Andros was an old school ex-Marine with exacting standards on grooming. Players were not allowed any facial hair, most wore 50’s style crew cuts. Black players were not allowed Afros, which given the era, were popular with the few non-football playing black kids on campus.
Andros took a lot of heat but refused to yield. So did Milton. There was a rally on campus supporting Andros and a reported 4000 people came out in support. The Black Student Union also held a rally. It was sparsely attended. The message to the black players was clear.
Milton withdrew from school and transferred, as did several other black players. He had a good career and played a little pro-ball. He returned to Oregon and worked in the Portland Area until he died, fairly young in 2011.
Andros was able to hold the line and win for a year or two but the consequences caught up to him a few years latter. After 1969 he was never able to recruit high quality black players to Corvallis. The word was out that he was a stubborn old school guy. Recruiters successfully used the Milton debacle against him.
After the 1-10 75 season he was “kicked upstairs” to the Athletic Director job were he spent the next ten years. A lot of people feel that even though he wasn’t coaching the football team his continued association with OSU was detrimental. Certainly the sad fates of his successors; Craig Fertig and Joe Avezzano, were at least partially due to Andros. ,
Nice.
Did you read the SI article? It seems to be exactly what you’re recounting.
Don’t recall an SI article. I lived it. My roommate and I were called “hippies” because we supported Milton and his right to express himself. Campus option strongly sided with Andros.
There are no ex-Marines. Especially bronze star on Iwo Jima Marines. That man saw and lived through things that none of us could even imagine, and when the smoke cleared he realized that proper training, leadership and discipline were what led him through the impossible.
I read the article and I recognize his leadership style as would anyone who spent time in the Marine Corps. Nobody in their right mind would try to lead modern college kids in that manner, and Andros was on the final waning moments of kids that would be receptive to that style.
As late 60’s icon and perennial presidential candidate Pat Paulsen used to say “picky, picky.” l
It’s much more difficult for me to think of a reason for the downvotes to WFO’s comment than those earlier ones questioned by angry.
Downvoting the earlier ones may have simply been agreement that the incidents put OSU/Andros in a bad light, downvoting WFO here….well hard for me to explain.
Maybe they read the first half and not the second? That could come off as apologist for his behavior cause he was a marine perhaps? Idk, everything WFO said made sense to me.
The only specific thing I can add about Dee Andros and racial issues is that he wasn’t a fan about black players having afros and other style/cultural expressions that were happening at the time. This apparently wasn’t acceptable to Dee. This comes from many conversations I had will Earthquake Bill about all things Beavs and all things conspiracy theory. “Come on Bill, the moon landing was faked? You’re talking to a Purdue grad. Neil Armstrong?” “No, really. They’d get burned up in from the radiation in the Van Allen Belt”.
Well it’s a good thing that you went to Purdue and there’s no chance that anyone else knows something that you don’t.
Dude, chill out. You are wound up.
I’m not sure what you’re getting at, wfo, except that maybe you think the moon landing was faked. I learned to avoid sarcasm combined with double negatives.
Your Alma maters are producing some fantastic headlines this week.
I saw the uncomfortable Brees news. Did I miss anything else? Purdue’s back to school plan seems to be getting attention.
The game and society passed Andros by quickly and almost simultaneously. Does anyone remember Cal taking BYU off of their schedule in the late ’60s because of blatant racist Mormon doctrine? I was pretty young at the time, but it made headlines. I have not done any internet research on it yet.
Off topic(let me know if I should post elsewhere with non-Andros topics)
Saw this morning that Benton County is already moving on to Phase 2 of the re-opening plan. 2 weeks ago this would have been big news. Now it’s just a side note. The progression from Phase 1 to Phase 2 happened quickly. Phase 3, we’re coming for you next!
https://twitter.com/BentonCoGov/status/1268925564729069575?s=19
I got a feeling Phase 3 is a long ways off. Phase 1 and 2 aren’t huge leaps, phase 3 is a jump.
Yeah everyone is over it.
I think the next big phase is Fall when it comes back. Until then it’s smooth sailing, I think.
In theory, the large crowds of protesters should trigger an increase from what we have been told. I guess it’s sort of an unofficial test case. It will be interesting if cases do not spike.
The oregon department of health said since phase 1 started they hadn’t seen a spike. Seems a little early to state that, and they haven’t been very forth coming on most covid news as of the last month or so. I think by July we will have a pretty good idea of how the rest of the summer will play out.
Side note, I’m curious why we think the fall will be any different from the summer months as far as infections go? I know people like to reference the flu, but take a look a middle eastern countrys right now. There having huge spikes in infections and its pretty warm there. If any thing I think we see spikes as soon as people start co-mingling more (the next phases).
I think co-mingling started a week and a half ago. It shouldn’t take long to see the results from a public health standpoint.
Just have to hope now the virus mutates to a much less lethal version requiring less hospitalization and death.
Bill, Italy claims they are seen that right now. Whether thats true or not who knows. From my understanding they are more likely to weaken then strengthen as they mutate, but that’s no guarantee.
Heat stability of viruses is generally considered bad. This one doesn’t seem to have that issue. Deschutes county is definitely starting to increase reported cases. People we know at st charles say theres been 6 new ICU cases in the last two days and there is a good number that got stay home isolation orders.
Seems like the world has decided that reality is what you decide it is so the virus is gone. We have not gone under 10k cases a day since mid march and deaths are still hovering around 1000 a day. I think the last half of June and July are going to be pretty bad. Should get better after that when people come to the realization that they can be affected and masking and social distance is our only defense. I very much doubt the US will go into isolation again though, we will do this the sad way.
Seeing some consensus in papers on masks vs shields that a cloth mask and face shield offers really really good protection, less than 1% chance of contracting the virus vs a 40% chance with just social distancing. Just cloth mask and social distancing was in the 15% range. Well see how it pans out as more papers come out. If you want to look for yourself go on google scholar and use the key words ‘cloth’ ‘mask’ ‘covid’ ‘vs’ ‘n95’ ‘n99’ ‘comparison’ and you can find a good amount of stuff.
@BB – Mutating to less deadly and more contagious is what makes sense for evolution. The virus that is winning is the one that spreads a ton without killing the host. A virus that can be contagious for 14 days and kills no one can spread unbothered forever. We don’t do anything about rhinovirus or most adenoviruses cause they are almost exclusively non-fatal. We don’t even have a clue how many types there is or what they are up to. Influenzas, Corona, Ebolas and their ilk are more like failures because they kill hosts and have a big awareness footprint.
Multnomah County finally applied for Phase 1 today, but can’t be approved until next week at the earliest. They’re the only Oregon county not currently in Phase 1 or above. A local news article I read on KATU said county official are nervous they’ll get denied because of a very recent spike in new local cases this week.
So the rest of Oregon will be getting out and about and even allowed to host semi large gatherings, while businesses within the city of Portland will remain closed indefinitely.
Guess I’ll be taking my business 1 mile south to Milwaukie for now. It’s safer there
Yeah, I’ll be surprised if Multnomah county is granted Phase 1 with all the protesters spewing droplets on each other. Maybe the spike won’t happen for a couple weeks, so they might go into Phase 1 then back to Phase 0 after a week.
Not a political take. Just something I found humorous today.
Our local elementary school emailed a flier/invite to all parents about a planned BLM march in my neighborhood happening this evening.
2nd paragraph reads
“As white allies, we do not speak for our Black neighbors, but listen and mourn and act to hold power accountable”
Now, it is true that the Woodstock neighborhood in SE Portland has a mojority white population, but it’s not like everybody is white. My kid’s classroom alone has Asian, Indian, Latino and African American kids/parents in it.
The audience is not only “white allies” but instead, a fairly diverse mixture of cultures. The invite almost reads as a “Whites only, BLM march” which makes me chuckle. It’s very Portland.
Not a political take. Just something I found humorous today.
Humorous? Or a sad commentary on the extent of PC today?
And, yeah, Get Off My Lawn!
Actually, viewing it as humorous is, likely, much better for your blood pressure.
It’s very confusing. I guess COVID is not a thing anymore and we are not concerned about the at-risk groups? Stay Home, Save Lives? Not so much, right now. Everyone is trying to adapt to do what’s best for our health, but protesting gets to stay “old school”. No new normal for that action.
Now that school is just about out for Summer, the school is starting to encourage families to turn out in large gatherings. But the playground structures still have yellow caution tape around them, cause Corona only hangs out on playgrounds. Maybe their hope is to ensure full time home schooling next year as well.
Mckalk, that curve thing and caring was to avoid overrunning the hospitals. Once that happened, people figured they did their job, and of course it’s human nature to want to go outside when the weather is nice. I always knew weather would lead to this thing going away — not because it kills the virus, but because guys want to see girls in shorts and skirts, and girls want to get out and find mates. Humans being humans. No way a virus is going to overcome those hormones. I said the same thing in 2011 with Occupy Wall St. I remember saying as soon as the weather got cold we’d never hear from them again…again, very predicable human nature. With this virus, it will come back in the Fall, but people won’t be as willing to go into complete mandatory lockdown. It will be more voluntary. Again, human nature where people feel they did their part, and where people are willing to take gambles with their life. Only if they feel the odds of dying are great will they voluntarily lock down in Fall.
Yes, I work in healthcare so I understand the supply and capacity issues. I am more bemused by Oregon specifically as the governor babbles on about all these phases while 10,000 people co-mingle downtown.
Phase 1 to 2 is real minor
Alabama football team got tested prior to starting up practices on campus. “At least 5” players have tested positive.
Not sure how many total players got tested, but conservatively we could say 5 out of 100, or 5% of their team currently is positive. Maybe more if “at least 5” means a bigger number they’re not sharing, and this is assuming they tested that many players. Could be that freshman arent even on campus yet, I dont know.
Makes me wonder, if we are only testing for active positive cases at this point in time, and use this sample population as a measuring stick, 5% is a pretty high rate. Especially if you factor in all of the players testing negative this week who may have already been positive during the last 3 months but are now virus free. At some point they’re going to run out of players to get infected once everybody has had it.
Link added:
https://twitter.com/SInow/status/1268637422583152643?s=19
OK, scotty, I’ve held off long enough :P
Josh is up with another podcast and it may be one of his best. Pat Bailey does a lot more than just explain why he doesn’t like the term “walkon”.
Addresses his personal faith, interaction with players and other coaches, and spends time on the serious issues of the day.
Less than a half hour long, I know you’ve got that much spare time!
BTW, the previous podcast with Roberto Nelson wasn’t bad either.
https://wordenjosh.podbean.com/
If all players including white players had a grooming code ( See today’s NY Yankees and several corporations) why were black players thinking they were exempt? I was in
U S army and worked at UPS. No beards allowed. In service mustaches were very regulated. These rules were for all peoples.