08.Feb.2015 Lyle Moevao’s Tweet

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His tweet reads:

#Polymovement

Followed by a list of the Poly players signed. If I were on the team and of a different ethnicity, I’d feel left out reading that. If a white player wrote #Caucasianmovement it would be a National story. So there’s that double standard. Great teams have to be unified, and I think writing something like this can only have the opposite effect.

I called Moevao out on his wall. What a stupid tweet.

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  • jason says:
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    what a stupid post.

    But here comes 150 replies so you win

  • RanYakumo RanYakumo says:
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    I think that (A) You’re taking this way too seriously, and (B) he’s just referring to how many Polynesian players OSU happened to sign this recruiting cycle. I highly doubt players like Vanderveen, Lucas, etc. are nearly as offended by this as you think.

    Nothing wrong with valuing your roots.

  • scotty says:
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    I agree, why make ethnicity a big thing? Didn’t we already have Poly players? But whatever, not a huge deal.

    I have a bigger issue with the use of “movement”. It always makes me think bowel movement.

    • Bob says:
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      It’s not a big thing at all shout about your ethnicity, as long as you’re not white. Do that, and your a racist. Whites are now conditioned to accept that warped reality, so it becomes the standard. I doubt any of the non Poly players haven even given it a thought, and if they have, would NEVER express it outwardly, fearing the “racist” tag.

      Fear is a powerful motivator.

  • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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    Any chance he referring to the parrot who always wants a cracker?

    • angry angry says:
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      That, or maybe he means we’re all Pollyannas now that Riley’s gone.

    • scotty says:
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      Poly wants a *cracker*? OMG you double racist! :-p

  • wannabeav says:
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    Angry: this is the first time you’ve ever written something I disagreed with. It’s just a little ethnic pride, structurally and sentimentally not far off what Mariota said at his Heisman moment.

  • Beavblazer Beavblazer says:
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    He did tweet out “Caucasion Movement” earlier in the week, but you may not have seen it because it was much slower and less coordinated.

  • MB says:
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    How does this affect the GPI index for the Beavs?

  • Lurker says:
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    Long time follower of AB and this is one post I disagree on. The irony is that this post is asking Moevao to be PC because he may offend people. Though I believe his tweet is no big deal, it is good to have this conversation.

  • mckalk says:
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    I’m slow, fat and tackle like a girl and live vicariously through watching others play sports. I have no pride no matter my ethnicity.

  • scotty says:
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    Food for thought since BIRG comes up a lot:

    Is racial pride not the epitome of basking in reflected glory?

    It’s nothing you did. It’s nothing you earned. It is no more an accomplishment than being born with a certain number of fingers or breathing. You just happened to be born to parents who happened to be born from parents from…

    You were not MLK. You did not bravely risk your life and organize change. You were not Cesar Chavez. I’m half-Asian. I’m not Jackie Chan or any other famous Asian any more than I drained a 3 at the latest Beaver game. So is it not all reflected glory?

    And BTW, how come being half Asian, half-white, I can only celebrate my Asian half and am almost expected to be ashamed or apologetic for my white half? It doesn’t feel right, and it doesn’t add up.

    It’s one thing to examine and rectify racial injustices. That is laudable. It’s another to pump “racial pride” like we pump “self-esteem” to kids these days: the idea that you deserve praise despite not having truly done anything yourself to earn it.

    • angry angry says:
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      Good comment.

      I don’t know if it’s the epitome of BIRG, but it’s definitely similar. Fact is there are few things (by definition of being average) the average person can be proud of. This is why they BIRG, brag, etc. Meanwhile the above average people play in the games, own the team, etc.

      Now the issue with LM is a bit different because there’s some of what you mention but also something tribal (i.e. bonding with people who look like you). It’s a little different because of that.

      Humility is a lost art.

      One more point: even if LM was happy about signing those Polys, he lacked the humility to say so in private. There was no need to post that publicly. This is the “look at me”/”omg he did not do that” era, so we get that type of tweet. Everyone who follows recruiting already knew we signed a handful of Poly players, so what’s the point? This is why I don’t use facebook. 95% of the things I posted had zero point being said/written.

      I read this article last year that sums up FB:
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wait-but-why/annoying-facebook-behavior_b_4081038.html

      I think it’s spot on and a good reason everyone should delete their accounts. Twitter has slightly more utility.

      • scotty says:
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        I didn’t mean what I wrote in the context of LM’s tweet, just as it’s own observation 🙂

        Facebook is annoying. The more “social networks” we have, the less truly social we are in any meaningful sense. Facebook and the like don’t exist to improve human experience. They exist to make money for the shareholders, end of story. If they can spin “human experience” into that to make it seem palatable, so much the better for them. But don’t think they give a crap in the end.

        • scotty says:
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          To expand on social networks:

          Got people addicted to the computer? Don’t care, made money.

          Encouraged groupthink and bullying? Don’t care, made money.

          Led the way in making our relationships more shallow and self-centered? Don’t care, made money.

          Never forget that when they try to persuade you to give more info, access, and time under the next disingenuous “relationship-improving” feature.

          • angry angry says:
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            I’d say they worst part about is they brought out the inner narcissism in everyone. How can narcissism be a personality “disorder” when 95% of people on FB have it? It seems to me like humility is the abnormal behavior.

        • angry angry says:
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          Did you read the huffingtonpost article? It’s pretty funny and spot on. LM’s post probably falls under #4

          4) The Inexplicably-Public Private Message

          Description: A public posting from one person to another that has no good reason to be public.

          Examples:

          I miss you! When are we hanging out?

          What a weekend with Julie Epstein and Emily Rothchild. I love my girls!

          All private jokes.

          Core reasons for posting: Image Crafting; Jealousy Inducing; Narcissism; You’re over 80 and don’t realize there’s a difference between a public post and a private message.

          My grandmother aside, there is no good reason to ever do this. Good is the key word. There are lots of very annoying reasons to do this. Let’s list them:

          – To make yourself seem cool and social and make your social life seem vibrant and fun

          – To show everyone what good friends you and the recipient are

          – To make people jealous or feel worse about their own lives

          – Because you’re acting like you’re in high school and you’re one of the popular kids whose social situation is actually an important thing for people

          The one possibility I enjoy is that the message is written to be jealousy-inducing specifically for one individual who will likely be seeing it, whether it be an ex or a friend they hate. That kind of malice is so extreme it crosses over the far line and becomes awesome.

      • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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        That is a great summarization of Facebook and why I stopped doing it.

        • angry angry says:
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          It’s really brilliant.

        • Jack says:
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          I kinda agree. I also disagree because it’s a way I keep in touch with people around the world.

          I haven’t posted anything to my “wall” in over four years. But I log on to see if my friends in Australia, the Czech Republic, Singapore, the merchant marines, etc. are on at any given time. Then I chat with them. A couple hours ago I was talking with my friend Jon who is consulting on a hydro-electric project in the Czech Republic. He’s been there for over a year, and it looks like he will move to Nepal in the near future. Talk about Beavers making dams.

          FB is the medium we use because it is innocuous and universal. We have zero to hide. In the case of Jon, I need to inform him of how I’m managing his house as a rental while he’s gone. Another friend in Budapest is just my best friend from the Navy. A couple friends in Australia are from school or previous. Another in Chile is a professional connection.

          And FB is how we all talk to each other.

          • Jack says:
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            But I guess you have to keep in mind that I’m an old IRC guy. I loved that format most. I knew who was logged on and who I was talking to at all times.

          • angry angry says:
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            Why can’t you use email for all that?

          • Jack says:
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            email is snail mail compared to FB chat. And many of us who long for the Netscape IRC days don’t have access to that software all the time. FB does provide a steady and universal format.

          • angry angry says:
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            Have ever read FB’s terms of service? It’s creepy. They own anything you post, for one…

          • Jack says:
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            nothing to hide

            We also go IRC at planned times. We trust little when it comes to MS. FB is just the easy contact method.

            I’m sure the NSA knows all the ins and outs.

  • bigditch says:
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    Hey Angry, I work with Inmates and the ” Races ” sure do stick with their people, but SPORTS unite all the races on game day….No harm no foul with the tweet….

    • Jack says:
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      Yes… because essentialism is valid when felons are the control group.

  • bigditch says:
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    In Central Coast Cali…Like i said sports are powerful and races will high -five, laugh, talk (trash too) but after games back to Prison Politics….

  • Quatre Quatre says:
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    I am Micronesian, born in the Federated States and adopted into the US at a young age. Saying that racial pride is comparable to basking in reflected glory is one the of the most offensive things I’ve ever seen posted on this site. This is a topic that those who haven’t experienced being a minority in America should stay silent on.

    • scotty says:
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      I have experienced being a minority in America. I was raised with many Asian traditions, lived with my Asian grandparents for years, and though half-Asian, I look pretty darn Asian. I’ve dealt with my fair share of crap from it.

      If you have a factual dispute with what I presented, by all means share. But claiming offense in an attempt to silence opinions and discussion is deplorable and more offensive to me by far.

      • scotty says:
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        While I expect downvotes, I invite people to share their views and rebuttals instead of just clicking a button. It’s far more valuable.

        “I’m offended and you should shut up because your thoughts and experiences as a minority member are less valid than mine (for some reason)” is not a very convincing rebuttal, though.

        • Quatre Quatre says:
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          I have had a minute to calm down. Reading your comparison on this forum, dedicated to the thing that binds us all together, the Beavers, was shocking. So much so, that I lashed out without giving myself time to think rationally.

          I do not wish to silence discussion or opinions. I should have ignored your post and moved on. I will do so now and hope you are able to do the same. There is nothing to be gained from furthering our discussion. Our views are wildly divergent and any follow up discussion we have will only offend each other further.

          Go Beavs.

          • scotty says:
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            I respect that. I really am curious as to your reasoning in what you said originally, though. I know these topics can get contentious, but I have nothing against you. If you share, maybe I can learn something I hadn’t considered.

            Or maybe you don’t want to go there, I understand that too ^_^;

    • Jack says:
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      That’s taking it too far. Non-WASPs can celebrate their own heritage as well. There should be no issue with something so specific. In fact, celebrations of ethnic heritage should be invitations to all outsiders to be included in that festival. It’s a celebration, not a moratorium.

      WASPs have institutionalized celebrations in this country, which makes attempts by them to create ethnic celebrations redundant and silly. But calling them anything but redundant and silly is also wrong. Accept them all for what they are, and eat some dam good food… dammit!

    • LtCol USMC Ret says:
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      Really? Why should anyone stay silent? Racisim comes in many colors. I’m white (Irish/Native American) and married to an Okinawan. I’ve experienced being a minority in Hawaii, Oregon, California, and on and on. We all have not only a right, but a duty to speak our minds.

  • J says:
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    ^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^
    Nailed it

  • whatever says:
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    This is probably the worst post you’ve ever made on this site.

    White people can absolutely have pride in who they are, where they come from. There are shit tons of celebrations of all varieties of whiteness. In Portland, we have Highland games, Oktoberfest, Irish festivals, Polish festivals, Nordic festivals and plenty more. Is this some sort of white supremacy movement? Hell no. Does anybody care? Nope.

    As for the term ‘pride’, many varieties of non whites have been made to feel shame for not being white for generations. Black people, Asians, Native Americans and Hispanic folks were excluded from living in a lot of different places, unable to own land, often times murdered for what they look like. Even if they managed not to get killed, they were often generally looked down on by society as a whole. ‘Black pride’ or ‘Hispanic pride’ or whatever is simply a statement along the lines of ‘I won’t feel shame for who I am.’ I think that’s a great message.

    Unfortunately, the term ‘white pride’ is different. It’s been co-opted by white supremacy groups. If we’d locked in a bunch of kids named Nowak, Kowalski, Wozniak and Kaminski, somebody could easily have said #polishmovement and nobody would bat an eye. You throw around white power buzzwords, people would absolutely freak and rightly so.

    • scotty says:
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      The original post is very mountain out of a molehill IMO. It wouldn’t have registered on my radar.

      You wrote: “‘Black pride’ or ‘Hispanic pride’ or whatever is simply a statement along the lines of ‘I won’t feel shame for who I am.’ I think that’s a great message.”

      I agree that not feeling shame for your ethnicity is a great message. However, the term isn’t “___ and unashamed”, it’s “___ pride”. Racial pride is derived from factors that you had no say in, and likewise I’d say the same for racial shame. Instead of pride or shame based on what others in your race have done, how about pride or shame based on what YOU have done?

      If being a member of a certain race led you to conquering obstacles and shaped your character positively, you deserve to take pride in that. If all you did was happen to share ancestry with someone else who accomplished something, well… if that’s not basking in reflected glory, what is? It sounds like the very definition. Not that it’s so terrible – people are group-oriented and like to identify with each other.

    • angry angry says:
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      Disagree. I think it’s important. We have BYU/Utah/Mormon players coming into the program, more Poly players than usual, and a graduate assistant singling them out/forming a clique. It’s worth talking about. If it scares you that’s a you problem.

      You are correct that whites can celebrate their whiteness if they do so under a nationality like Irish festival, Oktoberfest, etc. Though, those things celebrate their culture more than their whiteness. LM’s post isn’t cut and dry. I don’t know what he’s celebrating. He’s basically pulling a #4 from the insufferable FB post article. He should have just congratulated them all in private. I don’t see why it was public to begin with, and I don’t see any advantage and only possible disadvantages (cliques). Don’t see how it’s a dumb post to voice those observations and concerns, but hey, you can think what you want.

      • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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        When you have 85+ guys on a team, sub-groups (cliques) are natural and expected. They’re a positive thing primarily. The negative can be bad dynamics within the sub-group or that sub-group contaminating the larger group. I don’t see any negative with supporting poly culture on the team and having those guys still maintain a connection to that culture while they’re in Corvallis. They’ll adjust better and be happier.

  • Jack says:
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    So… what I hear you saying is that PC isn’t stupid if it’s FOR white people.

    • scotty says:
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      I think he’s saying it’s a double standard that it’s only for certain groups and not others.

      Consoles are cheaper and for everyone, though 😀

      • Jack says:
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        Let’s see… projected feelings of isolation and/or segregation for groups of people… weird red herring involving essentialist thought… assumption that polymorphs can’t survive ethnic pride because there is no such thing as caucasmorphs….

        Yeah. That’s some good whaaaa-PC stuff right there.

        • angry angry says:
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          That’s literally the first time I’ve ever been called PC in my life!

          • Jack says:
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            Isn’t it our job to call it all ways?

          • Jack says:
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            I should say that’s all this rises to. Many times, people call racism, misogyny and homophobia PC when they are, in fact, racism, misogyny and homophobia. So this isn’t that.

  • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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    I didn’t read all the posts, but LM’s tweet is only a double standard on the thin surface and in the extreme literal sense (“why isn’t it okay to switch out poly for white?”). Due to discrimination and racism in this country, and poly’s being a minority in this country, it’s an acceptable statement within that context. Whites are free to express pride in their own ethnicity if they want, e.g. Italians, Irish, etc, and there’s no fuss.

  • GOBeavers GOBeavers says:
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    I doubt anyone on the team cares about this tweet.

  • scotty says:
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    I’m completely serious: Is anyone willing to share a rebuttal of what I said earlier? Please? I’m not looking to pounce, I really am curious as to the rationale of those who disagree. If no one does that, I have to believe the disagreement is completely rooted in gut reactions of offense or discomfort, rather than sound argument.

    I’ll give you a cookie 😀 (in spirit)

    • Jack says:
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      Point to your previous post.

      • scotty says:
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        http://angrybeavs.com/football/11011#comment-174404

        And some people had a problem with this for some reason, too: http://angrybeavs.com/football/11011#comment-174433

      • Jack says:
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        Are you talking about the post where you talk about BIRGing? I think you fail to see that this and everything else shouldn’t be about race. Take a look at the AIM project. We really are a melting pot. Some don’t like it. Fuck some. Oops! Apparently that was already done.

        This is simply ethnic-centric. And it’s a corner of the recruiting world where OSU wants to capitalize. The values in that community are family oriented and fierce. Those are not values I want to diminish when recruiting athletes. In turn, they will become steady and solid people who represent OSU.

        Don’t tell me your life is dependent on anything other than yourself. Don’t tell me that drugs won’t get you ahead in life and make you money. Don’t tell me all this pretend crap I know is false once uttered.

        But do tell me that all the players representing my school are on the same page. Do tell me I will never see another game where those players just… give… up.

        Thank you Nebraska.

        Btw… did anyone else notice that we broke UW on Sunday? Except for Andrew Andrews, that whole team just gave up like I have never seen a team give up. Our boys broke them big time.

        • scotty says:
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          I don’t have an issue with the tweet, other than why go there (but no big deal.) I almost never bring up race, but I’ll talk about it if someone else does. The thread’s about race, so I made an observation about how it relates to our “favorite” BIRGing topic.

          And yes, thank you Huskers!

          • Jack says:
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            The thread’s not about race.

            It’s about ethnicity… at best.

          • scotty says:
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            You’re right, but they’re strongly connected and often used interchangeably in practice.

            Still, no one has any arguments to share against my comment… I feel like I’m just getting trolled now 😛

          • Jack says:
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            No… whatever is “strongly” connected incorrectly will be called out. What is… is.

            Don’t make the thoughts of others your crutch. Make what you think reality.

          • ObjCritic says:
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            I don’t know if i argued against your comment (s), but i thought you seemed to inappropriately be equating ethnicity/”islander”/nationality above..

          • scotty says:
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            Thanks for a response 🙂

            I wrote earlier “I didn’t mean what I wrote in the context of LM’s tweet, just as it’s own observation” – I was talking about race in my post, not ethnicity.

            Blah blah blah, I’m burned out on all this @_@ how ’bout them beavers biley sucks go tinkle wooooo *brain short circuits*

          • Jack says:
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            Go to chat.

        • ObjCritic says:
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          “Btw:” that is great to hear. Did not see game. Home winning streak record more ammo for Tinkle COY.

          CR ought to be very embarrassed by now…oh, too busy counting easy $$$?

          • Jack says:
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            OTOH… do we know that CR wouldn’t do the same?

            This is the coach who said this current team would make the Dance. His bigs didn’t make it for whatever reason. I think I miss Oliver more than anyone.

            But what kind of team would CR have put on the floor?

            Thankfully, CR pushed BDC under the bus with that one, “If I get fired…” quip after the last home loss… to Radford (?).

            I’m sorry, but if you feel you have license to say that shit, you need to go. I don’t know why BDC took his time to make that call. I do know why BDC made that call.

            Ugh!

            That post game presser would have pissed me off as an employer. I have no clue why it took BDC as long as he took to reciprocate. I know why he did so. But why did he wait?

          • cj cj says:
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            He’s a fucking idiot?

  • homefry homefry says:
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    I thought this team finally found an identity…guess that didn’t last long!

    All fascinating dialogue and I truly appreciate the give and take, however, tough to create/perceive an illusion of divisiveness before this team even has had their first spring practice,.

  • angry angry says:
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    I’m sure I’ll be accused of nitpicking, but it’s not just the word Poly, but “movement” has implications. It wasn’t PolySignings or PolyPride. Movement? Bizarre. I still hate the tweet a day later.

    • Jack says:
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      You’re losing for trying.

      It’s like you’re arguing against sunshine. There are good and bad aspects to it. But what the hell is the problem?

      • angry angry says:
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        Or you just don’t like the message? From Google:

        Movement: a group of people working together to advance their shared political, social, or artistic ideas.

        So I reiterate, using “movement” is maybe the worst of it.

  • cj cj says:
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    This is absolutely the worst thread I’ve ever seen.

  • thatguy says:
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    I’m pleasantly surprised y’all flamed angry up for this horsecrap post. I didn’t have to do it myself.

    “Cliques will form”…yeah, that happens every year. Polys hang out with Polys, Black dudes hang out with Black dudes, White dudes hang out with White dudes. Every team from pro down to middle school does this. It’s 100 young men on a team, people will find a couple good friends.

  • angry angry says:
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    My conclusion:
    You’re all brainwashed and emotional.

    Except Scotty, Ran, and Bob.
    Polymovement…give me a break.

    • beavergopher beavergopher says:
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      The double rodent agrees with Angry.

    • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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      Interesting reply, angry. I would say you’re the one giving the knee-jerk emotional reply, and also that you’re brainwashed but not really aware of it. Speaking as a white guy with white privilege, I recommend stepping outside of the white American experience.

      • angry angry says:
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        Knee jerk? The post sat there 3 days before I decided to make a thread about it. Emotional? I could care less about race relations.

        This is a post about cliques and the same set of laws/social standards for all.

        You just like to argue and always take the opposite side as me. This is par for any thread.

        • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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          Knee jerk in the sense that you’re not sitting back and trying to understand it from a different perpective. You’re trying to apply the ‘same rules for all’ thinking to the situation

          We do go back and forth, but they tend to be about issues of emotion, psychology, and group dynamics. You seem like a more linear, black and white thinker, and human behavior is very grey and ambiguous.

          • angry angry says:
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            No that isn’t true at all.

          • homefry homefry says:
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            “No that isn’t true at all.”

            That response is really telling, or a great joke. (i.e. black/white observation rebutted by an absolute). I wish I could be so witty!

          • homefry homefry says:
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            Back in the day, when I roomed with OSU football players and did my time in spring conditioning with them–stoners hung out with stoners, Christians with Christians, Cali boyz with Californians, Roger Levasa with anyone he wanted…pride does not equate prejudice.

            I’m a relatively laid-back Dem from SoCal…there is no PC rhetoric/white guilt that I’m living with, I resent that some posters above are labeled as such. Lyle is proud of his recruits and is welcoming them into a TEAM. No man is an island, unless you are D. Revis–You start out belonging to something/someone , and from there you may “polymorph” (see what I did there) into a larger more inclusive unit (as in a D1 Football Team)

            I’ll get back to you on this–off to Yin Yoga to contemplate.

  • angry angry says:
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    I’ll reiterate since it will get lost above:

    From Google:

    Movement: a group of people working together to advance their shared political, social, or artistic ideas.

    So we have an ethnic/national word, Poly, followed by a sociopolitical word, “movement”.

    I expect more from AB readers than to just ignore this or shoot the messenger for acknowledging it. Again, you are brainwashed/emotional/ensconced in an ideology a if you have an issue with this post. There is no way around that. I subscribe to no ideology and take things on a case by case basis, and this case is f’d the f up.

    • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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      I think you’re going too literal with this one. Look at the personality of the original messenger, Moevao. All reports, and what I’ve seen, say he is a cool dude who gets along well with others and was held in high regard by his teammates. He’s not using movement in the definition you’re using. He’s being supportive if the guys coming in, and he giving a nod to future recruiting. It seems lime you’re viewing cultural support as building cultural and racial tension, which it isn’t.

      • angry angry says:
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        Even if that is true, he has terrible judgement in a best case scenario. Maybe he didn’t consciously mean anything by the tweet, but the subconscious can get leaky that the worst times. Again, the two words he chose to use have a lot of implications when combined with the list of players he named.

    • Jack says:
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      Wait… we trust google now?
      http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/movement

      Why aren’t we complaining about LM’s tweet meaning the literal as the one word would describe? Poly- is clearly a prefix meaning many. And I’m going to cherry pick definition number six for my manufactured outrage.

      LM is clearly saying that these kids have all pooped more than once. That has to be embarrassing for them, and teammates will make fun of them because of it. And since they’re just a bunch of kids, bullying will ensue until they reach their breaking point and have a huge school shooting.

      Then it will be their parents’ faults for not raising them right.

      What were we talking about?

      • Jack says:
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        Or maybe LM is talking about these kids physically lifting visqueen and transporting it to a different place?

        I’m so confused now.

  • angry angry says:
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    You will also have a hard time convincing me Nationalism is ever a good thing. Taken to extreme forms, we get Nazis, Russia, nationalist-hybrid with region like in the Middle East, etc. Even the US uses it to justify wars all the time.

    What you guys are calling harmless pride is actually nationalism. If you were talking about pride, you’d be talking patriotism. This is precisely why the tweet bothers me. It is slightly nationalistic, not patriotic.

    George Orwell, my favorite author (and democratic socialist, which I staunchly disagree with, fwiw), on Nationalism:
    http://orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat

    Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality

    There are many criticisms of nationalist mindset, though. This is just one viewpoint I happen to agree with. Go read about it.

    LM’s tweet is on the cusp, which is why I had to sit on it for days.

    But at the end of the day, the tweet is disturbing because it combines an ethnic term (poly) with a political term (movement) while, by omission, isolates others who are not part of either (this implicitly suggests they are missing out on something by not being Poly. It names specific people (the signed recruits) not specific places (pride in where they came from); thus it is not about pride or culture of a specific place and not patriotism. It implies this group, poly, is unique or better than others, which is a power seeking tactic. Thus it is nationalism, not pride or patriotism.

    Your hamster wheels are spinning trying to find a resting place from all the years of TV, media telling you what you should think about race (the post isn’t even about race), and then trying to make that mesh with cultural pride or patriotism. You also fail to even concede the tweet could have (I’d argue should have) been made in private. So he fails insufferable FB rule #4 listed above as well.

    At the end of the day, I’m not sensitive to this stuff at all and care nothing about race, ethnicity, or even nationalism unless I sense it is dangerous. You guys usually trust my judgment. I’m not sure why that changes with this issue, but it seems to me to be all the confusion and guilt you get from TV, media, wanting to feel like good/progressive/open-minded people, etc making that hamster wheel spin. That combined with injustices some of you feel you’ve endured (join the f’in club! — none of you know my or anyone elses’ plight, so don’t woe-is-me your own, as if you know it’s worse and/or you’re owed privileges or special rights because of that). My sense is all these things combine to shoot the messenger. But am going to trust my gut and instincts over a bunch of guys who are spouting stuff they heard on TV at me. Sorry, ABs. I like you guys in general, but you’re sounding like the pro-Riley dudes who could not think for themselves and just rehashed the media.

    I also have no doubt the Poly players will be segregating themselves from the rest of the team as we move forward, unless GA steps in and refuses to allow that. Now knowing GA, he will do that. But say he slips up: do not be surprised to hear about rifts between groups more so than in the past.

    • krogercomplete says:
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      So, on a scale of 1-10, how likely would you say it is that (a) LM intended the tweet the way you describe above or (b) that anyone on the football team interpreted it that way (assuming for the moment that none of them have now been exposed to your dissertation as to why they should interpret it that way)?

      We can do a scale of .0000000001 – 10 if you need that that extra room.

      • angry angry says:
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        Consciously probably very low, which is why I said it was a subconscious thing. Same with question B. If you read a list being portrayed as positive and you’re not on it you feel something negative.

        • krogercomplete says:
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          Ok, subconsciously, how would you rate the impact? You commented before that you don’t actually think the tweet will cause a rift on the team.

          Don’t get me wrong here, I think LM’s nationalist power grab is as despicable as the next guy, just trying to get a good gauge for what you think the actual impact of his antics will be.

          • angry angry says:
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            You changed the question. You first asked me to rate 1-10 “LM intended the tweet the way you describe above ”

            Now you ask me to rate the impact.

            Intention is not equal to impact.

            If you’re trying to ask me if he subconsciously intended something political, I think he did. By using the terms he did plus singling out those players, he is speaking to a specific faction of the team. Consciously? Probably not. Subconsciously, yes.

            Cultural pride/patriotism? No.
            Something more? Yes.

            Now is it Nationalism? Not in the sense they want power (though they might), but in the sense they want prestige (this part is clear). Read Orwell’s definition again.

          • krogercomplete says:
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            I was focusing more on (b) where I asked whether you think anyone on the team was actually “interpreting” it that way, which I was using as a proxy for “impact.” Sorry to not be clear on that.

            So back to my original question–rate (a) and (b) on a scale of 1-10, and you can do a rating for “conscious” and “subconscious” if that makes you more comfortable.

            As for the rest, I’m just using your language and your post, where you described the tweet as nationalist and power seeking.

            And I don’t think he’s “subconsciously” speaking to Poly’s with the tweet. He is consciously speaking to them. I know this because that is what the tweet says. The issue is whether his intent is benign, and regardless, whether the team actually interprets it as anything other than benign (or to what degree–hence the original question). How you (or Orwell) would know this is “something more” than pride is beyond me.

          • angry angry says:
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            Orwell states Nationalism can be power seeking OR prestige seeking. In this case, I think the more likely and obvious is the latter. But it could be some power seeking, but the tweet doesn’t suggest that on its own.

            I also said LM’s tweet is on the “cusp” of a nationalist thought. I never said it was active, conscious nationalism. It’s something weird and in between, but definitely not innocent pride or patriotism.

            Regarding the rest of the team, I have no idea. I’d have to know the IQ of the team and many other figures to even guess who is capable of reading between lines, thinking abstractly, deducting, and all that. Most probably have been conditioned to take those types of tweets, from a minority, as patriotic. So they are probably not concerned. They might become concerned once the season starts if/when they see factions forming.

            I don’t think whether players on the team care about it right now means fans should write it off as unimportant. That is a leap.

          • krogercomplete says:
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            I was just looking at the part of your post where you said “It implies this group, poly, is unique or better than others, which is a power seeking tactic. Thus it is nationalism, not pride or patriotism.” Maybe I am mis-reading.

            And again, how you know LM’s intent (conscious or subconscious) was “definitely not innocent pride” is still a bit of a mystery, notwithstanding your very definitive statements about it.

            Not seeing much in terms of an answer to my question. If you don’t think what the players on the team actually think about this tweet is important, why post a thread lamenting the impact this tweet was going to have on the team’s unity?

    • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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      I’m not parroting anything from the media or saying anything out of guilt. My perspective comes from historical fact and related theories/beliefs about cultural development and assimilation in the U.S.

      Only LM can explain the meaning fully, and when we don’t have that explanation, we draw our own conclusions. My conclusions are involving what I know about LM and his role on the team. Your conclusions seem to drawn from elsewhere and you decided right away the tweet had negative associations.

      • Bob says:
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        Parroting the media is exactly what you are doing when you refer to yourself, as you did in a previous post on this thread, as “white, living in white privilege.” You may as well have substituted “white guilt” for “white privilege”. Neither are original thoughts made by you.

        • Jack says:
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          String theory is also not an original thought. But I wouldn’t call it a media-driven idea either.

          I am 6’4″. But that must be parroting the media since I didn’t come up with the units of measurement myself.

          Grass is green. Oh… silly me. There I go parroting the media again. I might as well say green guilt, because that’s definitely what I meant when I said something specific and on point using another term… that means something totally different.

          • Bob says:
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            Jack, I can look at my lawn and see its green, I don’t need to read it in the newspaper. What bothers me is that clearly intelligent well meaning contributors to this blog, like Bendbeaver, can recite PC blather, using well worn liberal media terminology, and attribute it to themselves as original thinking. I think that is cause for concern. In a different and obviously more significant precedent, this exact type of behavior lead to WWII, instigated by an otherwise rational and intelligent German people who somehow one day decided to stop thinking for themselves.

          • bendbeaver bendbeaver says:
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            I wasn’t claiming it to be original thought, what I wrote above is something I’ve learned about. This includes white privilege and algebra. I wasn’t born with that knowledge. It’s an attempt to discount actual fact by calling it “pc blather” and done because they don’t like the sound of it.

            People being proud about their culture and feeling connected to each other based on that did not lead to WWII. There were many more dynamics and issues at play. Maybe you’re reciting blather rather than deciding to learn more about an issue.

          • Jack says:
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            Huh? Liberal media? Where?

            You go ahead and name me the participants in the “liberal media.” Then tell me what they have written that is liberal. Then tell me who advertises with them and who their owners are. Then tell me none of that has anything to do with anything.

            I know what white privilege is. It’s pretty clear you think it’s the Stormfront definition. Thanks for proving Godwin’s Law, btw… although, I think angry did it first… just not so directly.

            If you ever find yourself comparing liberals with National Socialists because you were told to do so or think the name has some meaning… know that National Socialists were about as far to the right of the political spectrum as you can get. Chinese and Russian Communisms? State churches both. I get tired of ignorant people spouting Faux News talking points as if they mean something, anything. Just because the stupidest people on the planet subscribe to that nationalist bullshit lousy excuse for even an opinion rag doesn’t mean I have to hear it on a sports blog.

            Does it?

            There are words with actual meanings that we adults use to discuss things in life. They have real meanings, and some have real histories behind the meanings. Your straw man does not, nor will it ever change that meaning. But what might change is your understanding of some of those terms… with time… and education… more likely excoriation… maybe.

          • Jack says:
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            National Socialism is as socialist as the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is both democratic and a republic.

            I don’t hear you telling us how democrats and republicans are like North Korean dictators right now.

            Although, that could be a funny discussion.

    • Jack says:
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      I also have no doubt the Poly players will be segregating themselves from the rest of the team as we move forward….

      Yeah… because Polynesians are known as cold, distant, non-familial and unwelcoming people who have no idea what it means to be laid back… or part of a team.

      ?

      • Bill says:
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        I guess he didn’t get to enjoy the parties those guys had. I went to many and the poly guys had some of the most memorable parties out there because it felt like family.

        It’s more a brotherhood than anything. Having pride in guys like themselves is no different that fraternity guys expressing pride in their brotherhood. It doesn’t mean that they wall themselves off from others or become disrespectful to their teammates. The other poly guys are the are the guys they can most relate to. These guys take pride in themselves because most are the first in the family to go to college. They are lifting themselves up by their bootstraps and that’s the American way right?

        • Jack says:
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          Yeah… I would not compare them to a frat. But I agree that their displays of self-empowerment should not be misconstrued as a slight toward others.

          Question: Would #caucasionmovement include Persians, Turks, Kurds, Assyrians, Jews and Arabs? Or are we to assume ignorance and think it only applies to European whites and their prodigies… minus the Spanish and Portuguese, of course?

        • angry angry says:
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          Yeah… I would not compare them to a frat

          At least we can agree on that.

        • angry angry says:
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          That’s great. Anecdotes about Poly parties. I’m sure there are anecdotes about Polys doing all types of behavior. Is this now a praise poly thread because you feel I dissed them? To me they are like any other group: some good, some bad, etc etc etc, yada yada yada. .

          • Bill says:
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            I take it then, you have not been. Go, they will welcome you with open arms. Maybe it’ll give you a different perspective on where they are coming from with their tweets.

          • Jack says:
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            They do almost always have an ability to shrug off the stuck-up-buttedness they have known from haolis forever. It’s almost disarming how welcoming they can be… and how they can use that to make you feel welcome. It’s almost as if they’re sincere.

          • Jack says:
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            *almost

      • Dwill03 Dwill03 says:
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        I think this has been you’re best day of trolling in the history of the blog Jack. Slow clap. Pops was born and raised on Oahu so I grew up in the islands a couple weeks a year. Also ended up primarily partying with the “Polys” at OSU before being bar legal. Chill parties, often time live music, booze for all… I agree this is one of the silliest threads/topics since AB’s inception.

        Angry, if the goal was to get people talking and create a little controversy in the slow time, kudos you evil genius. Are you really that bothered by the word movement? LM’s #polymovement is now drawing comparisons to Stalin and Nazi Germany lol

        • Jack says:
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          “Open bar” isn’t even a concept there. You walk up to a campsite on the Wai’anae coast and ask if you can throw some shoes with those total strangers, and you’re loaded up with a beer and poke and chicken before you can even get in the game.

          That’s also where I met Walter Ray Williams Jr. for the first time. I had zero clue who he was other than he was one of three haolis throwing shoes and partying over the weekend after me and my buddy showed up. Those were good days. Now I have kids. These are good days in a different way.

          I don’t want to disparage people who have kids… or people who don’t have kids. I hope I didn’t come across that way.

          #kidmovement

  • angry angry says:
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    Instead of answering my question, LM has blocked me from following his tweets. That is definitely something a Nationalist would do!!

    • scotty says:
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      Ehh I’d probably have blocked you too, but then again I don’t tweet

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